Is this being released again or is this the old one and just hasn't been removed from WotC's website?
Who wants to bet that the same people who thought the cancelling of MME and other books was a sign WotC was in trouble, will say that printing them is a sign WotC is in trouble?
I'm taking bets, folks! 
Personally I'm very excited about this. I was really disappointed when the book was cancelled.
I'm sure people will complain. They complain about the HoS and they are already complaining about the Elemental Power book seen on Amazon.
Something about a box, money and WotC, I've heard.
None the less, I'm excited. And happy that things seem to be moving forward up there at HQ.
Eh my instinct is that this is just a fubar by someone who didn't get the memo that the book was pulled. But who knows maybe I'm wrong and we really will be getting such high quality rare items as the Holey(Haunted) Armor!
Why would you want armor that's full of holes?
Who wants to bet that the same people who thought the cancelling of MME and other books was a sign WotC was in trouble, will say that printing them is a sign WotC is in trouble?
I'm taking bets, folks!
On the contrary, if this does make it to press it's a sign of recovery; I'm not going to try to spin it otherwise. It is confusing, though, why they'd announce it as "cancelled" telling us we'd see the content in other formats, then turn around and uncancelling it. This appears to be another direction change, but it's too early to intuit what exactly it means for D&D just yet. The naming of the new "Elemental" book is further evidence of this shift, but again, to early to say what exactly it means.
My gut is optimistic: I feel like any direction other than the one we've been on the last year would be an improvement. I suppose it's possible the game could get diddled even further, but I really really hope not.
Why would you want armor that's full of holes?
It isn't full of holes, it just has one.....apparently over a vital point because the hole was made by a blow that killed the previous owner. And why would you want it? Because the Haunted Armor is the rare item that you DM gives you that tier? Frankly I don't think any character I've ever made would wear it, but hey it was the item that the devs decided to use as an example fo the rare items in the book when it was first announced so clearly someone must want to wear it. *shrug*
I hope so. I wouldn't mind another book of magical items, but if I'd have to work around the rarity system to make use of its content then I'd rather stick to the books I already own.
I know people are worried with the new direction they have gone, but I think the products we have gotten for DMs have been amazing!
> Maybe they decided to re write it w/o the stupid rarity rules? I hope so. I wouldn't mind another book of magical items, but if I'd have to work around the rarity system to make use of its content then I'd rather stick to the books I already own.
Pretty much sums me up.
I have the monster manuals and I love the new monster vault, I have the adventurers vault so Im sure Ill love this.
I know people are worried with the new direction they have gone, but I think the products we have gotten for DMs have been amazing!
But this is an item book so it is for pla.....oh right items are a DM resource in Essentials. Hurray for stupid design. >.>
A piece of armor (with a hole in it) that is haunted is a rare item??? Color me not impressed. What kind of a **** comes up with this idea?
It isn't just haunted, it is haunted by the person who was killed when the hole was made!....And whoever it was that made the announcement of the book thought it sounded good since that was the item they thought to tease the entire book with.
That said, I make no expectation it'll make item rarity any more popular.
I'm looking forward to this book, rarity or not. I don't see what the big deal is, if you don't like rarity, just ignore it. I don't see why anyone would complain about getting new magic item options. The negativity here is depressing.
If Wizards hadn't screwed the pooch so bad on rarity the first time you might not be getting this negativity.
I'm looking forward to this book, rarity or not. I don't see what the big deal is, if you don't like rarity, just ignore it. I don't see why anyone would complain about getting new magic item options. The negativity here is depressing.
If Wizards hadn't screwed the pooch so bad on rarity the first time you might not be getting this negativity.
I agree that wizards really dropped the ball on rarity. It was an epic fail on their part, and obviously so. But at the end of the day, rarity hasn't changed most people's games. Those who like it try to use it, and for everyone else it is totally ignored and the game goes on as normal. Yes, wizards screwed up and made an embarrasing mistake but my game didn't change so I really don't care.
I have the monster manuals and I love the new monster vault, I have the adventurers vault so Im sure Ill love this.
I know people are worried with the new direction they have gone, but I think the products we have gotten for DMs have been amazing!
But this is an item book so it is for pla.....oh right items are a DM resource in Essentials. Hurray for stupid design. >.>
Yes players can buy items, but so can villians, and Im not sure what kind of game you play but sometimes dungeons have items in them, and is it stupid design to have the DM creat the dungeon... I don't want a fight here but please don't quote me to whine about WotC...
I'm looking forward to this book, rarity or not. I don't see what the big deal is, if you don't like rarity, just ignore it. I don't see why anyone would complain about getting new magic item options. The negativity here is depressing.
Well if they keep the "plan" for item rarity then ignoring rarity is going to be a complete chore because the rarer the item the more powerful it is. Therefore assuming there is any kind of discernable difference in the power level of rare items like there originally was supposed to be, using any of these items(because I believe the book is supposed to filled (almost?) entirely with rare items), the use of the book is going to be constant drag as you have to analyze every single item you want to use to make sure it doesn't go outside of the previous design constraints too much.
Yes players can buy items, but so can villians, and Im not sure what kind of game you play but sometimes dungeons have items in them, and is it stupid design to have the DM creat the dungeon... I don't want a fight here but please don't quote me to whine about WotC...
My DM generally figures out what the bad guys had on them in the week in between sessions so that figuring out items doesn't slow down the game, and he quite frequently gives us items from our wishlists. Anything that isn't on our wishlists is generally just some minor misc. item that anyone could find a use for. Items are for our characters because they are the ones who are going to be using them most of the time.
And really? That was a harmless comment. Who cares if I quoted you? I didn't attribute it to you. It was a response to something you said, so I quoted you. If you don't like being quoted in posts you disagree with(whether substance or form) then perhaps forums aren't the best place for you to spend your time, especially ones as toxic as WotC's right now.
If you want things as a player to stay the same, talk to your dm and let him know you do not like this system, he likely feels the same and you move on with your life.
This books is very likely going to have a lot more fluff just like the monster vaults did, hopefully in line with what we have been seeing for Threats to the Nentir Vale, and I for one can't wait.
Im not a huge fan of the rarity system... but its easy to ignor... you look at the stat block, and where it says common, un common or rare, just ignore that one thing. Presto changeo its now a regular item.
If you want things as a player to stay the same, talk to your dm and let him know you do not like this system, he likely feels the same and you move on with your life.
The problem is that the addition of item rarity completely changes the balance of item power making it so that a level 6 rare item is supposed to be more powerful than a level 6 uncommon which is supposed to be balanced against the fact that it is rarer. In theory this should mean that you can no longer get a good sense of an item's power just by looking at its level. In practice we don't have enough data points to see whether that is true or if they failed at their stated design goals.
And my DM said that we could buy all items a long time ago in his campaign. I'm complaining simply because this is bad design that I don't view as being worth any money and as Essentials has shown us whining on the forums apparently gets you your way if you stick to it long enough(although I probably need a lead designer change to go along with the whining). Plus I have way too much spare time on my hands, and this is one of the ways I waste it. >.> So I'm not going to "move on with my life" just because you dislike my opinion.
Steve
Yes, MME is back on the production schedule.
Steve
Fantastic news! Looking forward to it.
Yes, MME is back on the production schedule.
Steve
Excellent news. Can't wait to get my hands on it. Thanks for the info.
rarity is a nightmare i cant wake up from
save it for 5e guys....pleeeaassseeee
It allows me to have the players get the feeling that they can pick up whatever they might need (common items) by looking around in big cities, and to feel that finding treasure while on an adventure is actually special because that's the only way they get some of the more interesting items that they want for their characters.
...and thanks to rarity I can do that just by saying "You can buy common items under normal circumstances, but you will usually have to find uncommon and rare items."
without rarity... accomplishing the same goal is... time consuming.
And as for the claim that rarity cannot be ignored because of power balancing of items... there have always been some items that are a bit better than other items of their level - level is a range of power, not a specific mathematical equation that determines power.
In my opinion, the rarity system gives more for a DM to work with than it takes away, and more so than it take away from the item loving players too, so it is a good addition to the game.
why they'd announce it as "cancelled" telling us we'd see the content in other formats, then turn around and uncancelling it.
I reckon because Fortune Cards (predictably) didn't do very well.
It's almost a shame though... magic items cards (if done right) had the potential to be their next cash cow, and at least would've been more interesting than fortune cards.
Yes, MME is back on the production schedule.
Steve
So we're confirming another direction change. Any chance you can tell us what's causing this change in strategy? Does it have anything to do with the news that Neverwinter is vaporware? IE, is MME taking the Neverwinter Campaign guide's spot on the publication schedule?
Yes, MME is back on the production schedule.
Steve
So we're confirming another direction change. Any chance you can tell us what's causing this change in strategy? Does it have anything to do with the news that Neverwinter is vaporware? IE, is MME taking the Neverwinter Campaign guide's spot on the publication schedule?
Why would NWCS not being going into production? We still don't even have confirmation that the CRPG is dead, just that Cryptic is. Besides, the NWCS was going to come out five months+ before the CRPG, I would hesitate to link them too much, even if the CS was supposed to be released in support (but not to support) of the CRPG.
EDIT: BTW, MME is coming out in a month that originally was not going to have any products. Hooray for fewer dead months!
I, for one, happen to love item rarity.
So you like that useful items are under your controll and not avalible to your players where this edition expected them to be... Good to know. You do realize the "common"list is a complete joke? There are not enough items under that system failure to equip a single character let alone a party. Then items which favor 4.5 classes got the "common" card where the same item useable by regular classes was labled as rare?
You act like "under DM control" and "available to your players" are mutually exclusive - they aren't.
As for the common item list... it has enough items on it that any character can have what they need to have in order to stand up to level appropriate challenges.
Item rarity does nothing to prevent players from getting the items they want (though a DM could, which they always could even without rarity, because bad DMs will be bad at DMing), it does show the player what ways are acceptable to get the items they desire - and backs up the DM and setting should they say "No, you can't dual wield two Holy Avengers, there aren't enough in the campaign world for that to be feasible."
Old way: I want gauntlets of ogre power... hey DM, can you set me up to get some or let my character buy them somewhere?
New way: I want gauntlets of ogre power... hey DM, can you set me up to get some or let my character buy them somewhere?
I fail to see the difference in actual use, except that in the old way I did not have items broken down into groups so that I could say "You can buy common items in any large city in this setting. In the desert trade city of Alumar, you can even buy uncommon items." and my players wouldn't have to look at me and say "So which ones are common and uncommon?"
Eh my instinct is that this is just a fubar by someone who didn't get the memo that the book was pulled. But who knows maybe I'm wrong and we really will be getting such high quality rare items as the Holey(Haunted) Armor!
Uh, no. This is legit. This is an ordering form for distributors and with a creation date of may 24th and release date of September, it for sure is not a fubar. I saw an exact one for Neverwinter Night Fortune Cards right before it was put on the product catalogue.
why they'd announce it as "cancelled" telling us we'd see the content in other formats, then turn around and uncancelling it.
I reckon because Fortune Cards (predictably) didn't do very well.
It's almost a shame though... magic items cards (if done right) had the potential to be their next cash cow, and at least would've been more interesting than fortune cards.
Well, Fortune Cards did do well enough for WotC to produce a second set...
Im just tired of all the whining going on around here.
The product is real. If magic item rarity is not your thing, shut up and ignore it. Prognostications on the health of Wotc based on types of products being released and opinions on individual products success are irrelevant. Wotc is here, they are successful, and they will continue to be. Boo Hoo.
Im just tired of all the whining going on around here.
No really, guys.
And like some wise scholar mentioned previously, if you don't like item rarity...just ignore it if you are able.
Its an rpg; you don't like something, you look at your fellow gamers around the table and agree to accept/change/ or omit.
why they'd announce it as "cancelled" telling us we'd see the content in other formats, then turn around and uncancelling it.
I reckon because Fortune Cards (predictably) didn't do very well.
It's almost a shame though... magic items cards (if done right) had the potential to be their next cash cow, and at least would've been more interesting than fortune cards.
Well, Fortune Cards did do well enough for WotC to produce a second set...
Again, incorrect assumption. Wizards releases their products in sets of 3. The Neverwinter Fortune Card Set was designed at least 6 months ago. Whether or not Shadow over Nentir Vale Fortune set sold well or not, this product was going to be released. Same thing with the third one, Fury of the Feywild; it will be released in November no matter how the first two sets do profit wise.
oh god NOOOOOOOoooooOOOooo
rarity is a nightmare i cant wake up from
save it for 5e guys....pleeeaassseeee
It's back in full strength. Notice too, how the book is for DMs? I'll keep my Adventurer's Vault. However, this release is much needed for the rarity concept.
Uh, no. This is legit. This is an ordering form for distributors and with a creation date of may 24th and release date of September, it for sure is not a fubar. I saw an exact one for Neverwinter Night Fortune Cards right before it was put on the product catalogue.
O_o Why did you feel it was necessary to respond to my post about my gut instinct from four days ago when we already have a post from someone at WotC saying that the product was on the schedule again two days ago?
Yes, MME is back on the production schedule.
Steve
Yay, thanks Steve.
Don't worry, there'll be official comments about this eventually. We just get to be on the bleeding edge of news. w00t
Yes, MME is back on the production schedule.
Steve
(sry still havent figured out how to quote after all these years lol)
Thanks for the heads up Steve 
this at least stops us from arguing about whether or not it's actually coming out, lol. Anyways...
The magic item rarity system?
I like it and i don't like it.
Why?
I don't like it because there weren't enough items of each level to make it viable.
I like it pretty much for the same reasons AaronBarbarian does.
I hoping that when the book comes out it has rules to both use and not use rarity, so that almost everyone is happy .
~Teo
P.S. - Haunted Armor is now a Common Item as per this link : www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/d...
P.S. - Haunted Armor is now a Common Item as per this link : www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/d...
Yeah I saw that. I suppose they sort of realized how lame of an item it is. I still don't have high expectaions for the items in the book though.
. You see, my home campaign is mostly not essentials (4 PC's non- E, 2 PC's E mixed = both E and Pre E PC's). To me, Essentials was just another add on option and easier entry point for new players.Until Encounters. i know that you personally, Thunder_Dragonbane, don't much like essentials (trying to be PC here
) but for me, it was fine when it was what it was advertised as: 1) Extra Options
2) Easy Entry for New Players (also being Evergreen)
3) New Format (going forward) which I took as page layout, i.e. formatting. Open up a heroes of book and get great fluff to go with the mechanics for the wizard (mage) as well as tips on building one for newbies.
With all that said why do I have a problem with Essentials and Encounters now?
I hate being straightjacketed!!!
Being a player gives me a different perpective than a DM. I usually play hybrid/multiclass. Doesn't exist officially (read CB) yet in the rules. Weapon Choices are very limited. And the most limiting factor for me as a PC of all?
The lack of Magic items!!!
Magic items right now don't give me a sense of wonder anymore as a DM or PC.
I'm really hoping MME changes that in a very postive way!!!
To me, Fourth Edition D&D is not only the most balanced system of D&D to date, but from a DM's standpoint at least, also the most easily custimizable, lending itself to more readily accomodate house ruling without breaking the entire system. Better Magic Item rules will go a long way in making this system even that much better.
~Teo
Magic items right now don't give me a sense of wonder anymore as a DM or PC.
I never have gotten this argument. In all of my years of playing D&D, magic items have never given me a sense of wonder. It doesn't matter what the item is. In my current campaign my character has picked up random crap items, multiple artifacts, items from my wishlist, parts of an item that can destory the world, and an semi-random item that I sort of selected(he had us roll a d100 and the roll determined the item of the level while we got to select which item slot we got). None of them gave me a sense of wonder, and I am positive that no items from my days of playing 3.X ever did. In fact the item that made me the most excited was the semi-random item because I managed to get an item I was looking for that was several levels ahead of my current level. But there was no wonder there.
Magic items right now don't give me a sense of wonder anymore as a DM or PC.
I never have gotten this argument. In all of my years of playing D&D, magic items have never given me a sense of wonder.
Ditto. I can't recall any time, ever, in a D&D game where I got a sense of 'wonder' out of a magic item. It was almost always 'cool, I got a new thing I can use' or 'well, this is useless, wonder if I can sell it'. And if you think about it, in-character, it makes little sense to be awed of magic items.
Magic is D&D's science. It's a controllable, learnable force that behaves in predictable ways. There's no 'can I cast this spell right' effect; if you know Burning Hands, you KNOW Burning Hands. Your accuracy may falter, but the spell itself will go off, every time. People in D&D have been creating magic items for centuries, perhaps millenia. It's old hat. Expecting a PC to have a sense of wonder from a magic item is like expecting a junior high student to have a sense of wonder about a calculator.
Now, there is stuff to be in awe of; the D&D equivalent of the Large Hadron Collider or the nuclear bomb. Stuff like flying fortresses, floating landmasses, rituals that create demiplanes, that sort of thing. But Magic, particlularly items, in D&D is a quantified element.
'well, this is useless, wonder if I can sell it'.
There's your sense of "wonder."
I fully agree with the rest of your post, too: magic always seemed like a well-understood tool, like a firearm or a power drill or a horsecart. And anything that wasn't well understood is usually outside of the player's bailiwick anyway. And even if the magic sword seems pretty cool at first, eventually it's going to be like "This? Oh, yeah, if I hit something it catches fire. It's nice, I suppose."
Maybe it's because I disallow Enchant Item–type rituals for anything but Common Magic items. The Uncommons and Rares belong on a wishlist or a spontaneous thing I give. And many of my spontaneous stuff HAVE been used, and in ways I never expected.
See, for me, it's all about how you roleplay it. When I DM, most magic items have backstories, and histories, and should evoke wonder in my players, ideally.
I did mention that my current character has found parts of an eldritch machine that is capable of destroying the world right? This thing has a long detailed history dating back to the Age of Giants in Eberron and it(or another just like it) created the Mournlands in my DM's version of Eberron. What did my character do with this uber machine of ultimate death that is the McGuffin that everyone in the campaign was after for a while? He threw it in his cabin on his airship in the dirty clothes pile in order to use it as a sock warmer for probably around half of the campaign(and yes he was fully aware of the previous details at the time). There was no sense of wonder, there was simply, "what the hell can this stupid thing be used for?"
Maybe it was the lore behind them.
Maybe it was the cool flavorful abilities.
I dunno, I guess I'm just hoping MME has Rares like this.
Common +1 Swords can be really finely made weapons forged by a master blacksmith.
Uncommon +1 Flaming Swords can be weapons forged by the Fire Archons in the Dawn War almost to a massed produced potential at the time but has since dwindled to an uncommon number do to millenia of neglect or somesuch. The swords can even have a fireball/fireburst daily.
While the Rare Scimitar of the Efreeti has a really cool backstory concerning the founding of the City of Brass, is a Flaming Sword with all of the Uncommon Properties as well as giving fire related encounter and daily powers in addition to resist/immune fire for a time and possibly the ability to dominate fire dwelling creatures.
These are just quick examples off the top of my head of course.
I just remember that back in the day finding a wand of lightning bolts/rod of lightning was cool but finding a staff of the magi was truley a momentous occasion worthy of wonder.
Whether that was ebellishment of nostalgia, a really evocative DM, a great rulestet, or a combination of all three who knows. It just felt that way.
~Teo
See, for me, it's all about how you roleplay it. When I DM, most magic items have backstories, and histories, and should evoke wonder in my players, ideally. They might give me wishlists, but that's them as Players, not as Characters. The Characters, on the other hand, are not regularly exposed to magic items, and finding that ancient sword or suit of armour is a truly momentous event.
Some of that may also be different setting assumptions at work - for instance, in my most recent campaign, the characters were employed as artifact...ah, acquisition...specialists, so magic items are their bread and butter. Very little is surprising or wondrous; it's all about getting the item back to the curators, and using whatever item was needed for the job.
Though I suppose that you could look at that as "jadedness" instead. To mangle one of Patton Oswalt's routines, "This is an +1 Flaming Longsword. It's a sword that makes you better at swordfighting just by holding it, and you can set things on fire with it. It's a freaking miracle, and nobody cares."
From a personal standpoint, I favor skipping magic items entirely, since they're not particularly interesting (to me) compared to the characters. Fortunately, WotC provided the answer to that, too, via Inherent Bonuses.
It is, and has always been, effectively an "any good DM" sort of argument that is dependent entirely upon the DM and has absolutely nothing to do with the actually mechanics... for example "Any good DM can make a Longsword +1 with no other powers an interesting and sought after item" or the converse "A bad DM can't even make the most legendary of artifacts more than a boring collection of words and numbers."
Aaronof Barbaria ones again hits it on the nail!
The only way in which a player can truly get a sense of wonder that revolves around an item is when they have no personally knowledge of the item and are taught everything about it in a wonderous way - which usually falls short when the item is not just right.
It is, and has always been, effectively an "any good DM" sort of argument that is dependent entirely upon the DM and has absolutely nothing to do with the actually mechanics... for example "Any good DM can make a Longsword +1 with no other powers an interesting and sought after item" or the converse "A bad DM can't even make the most legendary of artifacts more than a boring collection of words and numbers."
This, of course, assumes that the player even cares about the magical item being magical. I mean, when you are walking around with a crystal person, a dragon man, a human with infernal blood in his veins, and they all do amazing feats and magical stuff, magic items just have the chance to be much more mundane. It would take truly one of a kind magic items only ever found once with some amazing world shaking history tied to them to make a magical item stick out amongst such far out characters.
Also, some players just really don't care about how magical it is, as long as it does what it does. Different motivations for different folks.
my fear is this will just be item errata and a lot of reprinted items
Most players just see magic items as something their characters are entitled to to make them viable. Another part of the build, if you will. As long as the view is this, there is little wonder in finding magic items. It is my personal opinion that in 5e, magic items should be pretty rare except for consumables such as potions and scrolls. If they are rare, they will feel special and an extra bonus to your character, not just part of the assumed build.
I agree with you that player's see magic items as just another part of their build. I also personally like this, but I admit that this is a matter of taste.
I disagree on the belief that making items rare will make them feel special. And I point to my statless sock warmer capable of destroying an entire country as an example of that principle not working.
Most players just see magic items as something their characters are entitled to to make them viable. Another part of the build, if you will. As long as the view is this, there is little wonder in finding magic items. It is my personal opinion that in 5e, magic items should be pretty rare except for consumables such as potions and scrolls. If they are rare, they will feel special and an extra bonus to your character, not just part of the assumed build.
If I ever bother to run the 4.0 game I'm drawing up, inherent bounses are going to be standard. If the players get magic items they will be plot devices, not needed bonuses. I'm not saying this will help, but it might be a start.
This is generally how I run it, though i notice criticals a tad less impressive.
That said, I still let players buy magic tiems without item rarity, they just seem not too cause well, most magic items are kinda dull, and sifting through them is worse than feats.