The implication of this: it didn't actually have new material in it before. Another book of O4e errata we would have to pay for, no wonder is was scrapped along with the Class Compendium. Looking forward to finding out what the ratio of new to reprited content is now that they've taken all this extra time on it.
Huh, no it doesn't imply that. It reads as if they added to the book after it was pulled. Thus the material is "new" to that book.
That's the way I took it as well. More importantly from my point of view is that this book will only be available from game stores.
I sadly gave up on my game store a few years back when the supply from WotC became irregular at best, making the trip no longer worthwhile so I'm very disappointed this book will not be on Amazon. As something I had pre-ordered before it was pulled, the fact that it is not available via "giant outlets" means I likely won't buy it.
Are WotC trying to drive customers away? This makes absolutely no sense to me. Can anyone explain this decision?
Either way it does not mean, old items updated, thats just silly.
Are WotC trying to drive customers away? This makes absolutely no sense to me. Can anyone explain this decision?
Simple: based on their previous products, they have an idea of how many copies this book will sell, and it isn't enough to justify printing the same number of books as they've been producing, and so with a more limited release, they've got to keep those product where they'll sell the best.
Neat, I'll have to pay some 30% more to get this book since FLGSs have rip-off prices compared to net stores.
"Rip-off" = List prices + possible tax? So the list price of D&D products should be about ~75% of what they are now to have value? (An honest question, though I find the implication amazing.)
Simple: based on their previous products, they have an idea of how many copies this book will sell, and it isn't enough to justify printing the same number of books as they've been producing, and so with a more limited release, they've got to keep those product where they'll sell the best.
The places with "rip-off" prices (you know... list prices) are where they will sell the best?
Yeah, it went down like this in Renton:
: We printed 50k but only sold 20k to big chains and 20k to FLGSs!
: Let's only print 20k and send them all to FLGSs! That is where they will sell the best, and our players can feel ripped off!
: That will certainly maximize our profits! A slightly more rational explanation is that WotC is heavily trying to make inroads into and bolster stores where people really play, or at least where one may encounter humans who do play. This will get new folks to actually start playing the game and will grow the core audience (who can then get milked for DDI accounts). Beyond "organized play", WotC tried to sweeten the pot with Fortune Cards, and haven't given up on that yet as seen by the releases coming up and the ToC. But Fortune Cards are too focused, rather polarizing, and not for everyone (and, IMHO, badly executed). It's hard to space out about cool Fortune Card decks. What will work better? An exclusive book of crunchy but mainly inessential options for everyone! That will net not only real humans who show up to interact with other humans, but will also be a bone thrown to grognard mutants (such as yours truly) who utilize DDI accounts! So both new folks (who apparently feel ripped off by paying list price) and continuing mutants (who DDI it) feel included. And if new folks want, they can pay a nominal fee every month/quarter/year and have that equipment right on their efficiently Silverlighted character sheet! Ta-Da! They are now milked mutants (like me) who can complain on these boards like everyone else. Mission Accomplished.
Simple: based on their previous products, they have an idea of how many copies this book will sell, and it isn't enough to justify printing the same number of books as they've been producing, and so with a more limited release, they've got to keep those product where they'll sell the best.
I wonder if it's even WotC's choice, or if Amazon/Walmart/etc. are just not interested in stocking a product at such low numbers. Big retailers generally need to stock a certain quantity of any given product to actually make it worth even listing it (because that costs money).
So, this "hey, we're doing the FLGSs a favour" thing may just be the (less shareholder-upsetting) cover for "the big retailers don't think we're worth their time anymore".
(And yes, I'm aware this is just rather cynical speculation. I'm not saying I have any real reason to think this is what's happening. I'd be very happy if someone could come up with a good reason why this is unlikely to be the case.)
I wonder if it's even WotC's choice, or if Amazon/Walmart/etc. are just not interested in stocking a product at such low numbers. Big retailers generally need to stock a certain quantity of any given product to actually make it worth even listing it (because that costs money).
If this was true, what would Amazon.com sell? The point of their business model is that they have a giant variety of stuff that they just need to warehouse. Yes, that costs money. But their inventory/distribution system can keep track of a million+ products, and there is no evidence that Amazon strips out titles that fall under a certain number, or that stay at a certain number for a given period of time.
If your scenario was the case, Amazon would have zero weird and obscure titles. Amazon does have such things. Oh, look! There is only 1 copy left of Bestseller's rank #977,886, the 2005 edition of "Prisons and Jail: A Deterrent to Crime?" Also, Amazon still has copies of the PHBR: Tieflings book (bestseller # 284,744) and they have just 12... but there are "more on the way". Amazon just has a _few copies_ of niche titles, but they have 'em. I think it is reasonable to assume that MME would sell more than the sample nonfiction title I provided, and probably more than PHBR: Tieflings.
"Well, maybe that crime book is a high-margin product so they can keep fewer of 'em!" Discounting/margins have little to do with it, as Amazon determines that themselves based on expected volumes, etc. like any other business, and _they_ determine the final cost. "Well, maybe it's a really dense product so that cubic footage makes more money than the cubic footage for a stack of MME because they have to do that for their warehousing!" C'mon. There is no evidence that Amazon is choosy about products based on their density and dimensions due to warehouse space limitations.
If WotC DID have overprinting problems in the past and this was a normal release, they would just print less and allot Amazon an amount of the product to better match expected sales. Instead WotC are giving Amazon NONE of the MME book. This implies that WotC is not forced to do so, but has instead made a deliberate choice. Why would they make that choice? See my other post above.
If it was a commercial/financial decision by WotC then fair enough, I just wanted to make the point here that a customer who has bought every single 4E release (ie. me) is making the convenience/financial decision not to buy this book. It makes no sense to me to keep this away from big retailers but hey, I'm not an accountant and I don't work in WotC.
Hope it makes sense to them when they're counting up the lost sales from people who can't/don't shop at game stores.
the fact that it is not available via "giant outlets" means I likely won't buy it.
Are WotC trying to drive customers away? This makes absolutely no sense to me. Can anyone explain this decision?
It's likely that FLGS's are essential to obtaining/retaining RPG customers (similar to what the comic book industry discovered... and RPG's are much more social than comic books). Put the FLGS's out of business, and the RPG industry could theoretically crash. Invest in them, and it's possible that the customer base grows. I'm interested to see how the strategy plays out.
the fact that it is not available via "giant outlets" means I likely won't buy it.
Are WotC trying to drive customers away? This makes absolutely no sense to me. Can anyone explain this decision?
It's likely that FLGS's are essential to obtaining/retaining RPG customers (similar to what the comic book industry discovered... and RPG's are much more social than comic books). Put the FLGS's out of business, and the RPG industry could theoretically crash. Invest in them, and it's possible that the customer base grows. I'm interested to see how the strategy plays out.
i think this is an excellent theory! i understand the implication, without knowing the reference; what happened with the comic book industry ?
If this was true, what would Amazon.com sell? ... This implies that WotC is not forced to do so, but has instead made a deliberate choice. Why would they make that choice? See my other post above.
You're probably right. I'm just trying to make sense of something that doesn't seem to make any sense.
It's likely that FLGS's are essential to obtaining/retaining RPG customers
If that were true, there'd be no D&D players in any country that didn't have FLGSs. That's obviously not the case.
FLGSs probably are important, though, at least in the US. But if WotC are going to support (almost exclusively American) FLGSs at the expense of their international customers (and American customers who don't have a FLGS that's actually both F and L) then I suspect they're going to do themselves more harm than good in the long-run.
In any case, artificially restricting the release of a new product doesn't look like the behaviour of a company that's confident about its product. Something is wrong, and I just don't believe the official explanation.
what happened with the comic book industry ?
There was a recent article about it in one of my magazines (I thought it was Popular Science, but I'm having trouble finding it). Basically, the comic book industry wants to go online, but cannot because it would cause some stores to go out of business, decreasing the customer base just enough to cause a domino effect which would collapse the industry. Being a niche industry with small profit margins, the whole thing is evidently a house of cards (sorry to switch metaphors). And this is just comic books... a product without much of a social aspect.
If that were true, there'd be no D&D players in any country that didn't have FLGSs. That's obviously not the case.
House. Of. Cards.
... with dominoes.
if WotC are going to support (almost exclusively American) FLGSs at the expense of their international customers (and American customers who don't have a FLGS that's actually both F and L) then I suspect they're going to do themselves more harm than good in the long-run.
I'm sure there will still be plenty of on-line stores selling the book. This same thing was done for the exclusive Orcus figurine. Did you have trouble obtaining that overseas?
the fact that it is not available via "giant outlets" means I likely won't buy it.
Are WotC trying to drive customers away? This makes absolutely no sense to me. Can anyone explain this decision?
It's likely that FLGS's are essential to obtaining/retaining RPG customers (similar to what the comic book industry discovered... and RPG's are much more social than comic books). Put the FLGS's out of business, and the RPG industry could theoretically crash. Invest in them, and it's possible that the customer base grows. I'm interested to see how the strategy plays out.
I agree with the theory and with the ideal of supporting FLGS's but I fail to see how removing potential online sales from the equation can help the D&D brand.
As I've mentioned, my case is particular to me in that supplies of D&D products grew sporadic at my FLGS and alongside this, my work location changed, making the store much less convenient to pop into on the off chance that new stock had arrived. I have, however, continued to buy almost every D&D product since then through online retailers. If I can't get a product through these sources then I am not going to make speculative trips to my FLGS (which is no longer really L) and instead will not purchase the product. This means that WotC loses a sale and from what I have seen on this thread and in comments attached to the Rule of Three article, I am not alone in this.
I am still hopeful that a UK online retailer will carry the book but Amazon is usually my first stop and they are only showing the old, pre-cancellation listing which says the book is unavailable. This, therefore, makes no sense to me as a business decision. You cannot encourage people to buy a book by making it available in fewer places, particularly if you are an international brand, which D&D clearly is.
I fail to see how removing potential online sales from the equation can help the D&D brand.
It likely a step done solely to keep local stores in business. Again though: the comic book industry realized that they're brand actually would suffer without the local stores.
This means that WotC loses a sale
Yup... and they're ok with this if it keeps the local stores in business. Indeed WotC is already losing out on huge amounts of sales by refusing to sell all those cool modules they're producing (that are selling for $50+ on ebay)... but they are giving them out free to the local stores simply to ensure customers come in.
House. Of. Cards.
... with dominoes.
'Domino theories' don't have a good track record, for what it's worth.
D&D seems to survive quite well in countries with no gaming stores to speak of. Games Workshop (my former employers, incidentally) had pretty much killed off independent gaming stores here well over a decade ago, but plenty of people here still play D&D and other RPGs.
I'm sure there will still be plenty of on-line stores selling the book. This same thing was done for the exclusive Orcus figurine. Did you have trouble obtaining that overseas?
I've never seen the Orcus fig over here. But that doesn't mean much, honestly, since I've never had any interest in WotC-produced miniatures.
Games Workshop (my former employers, incidentally)
Man, I am so sorry for you. I'm glad you made it out of there. Some of their practices are downright illegal. My favorite was requiring store employees to paint display models for the store on their own time, or they'd be fired. And their training process? Far too 'cult initiation' for my taste.
Great models. Their prices and game rules can be a bit naff, but you can't fault them on model quality, or customer service for that matter.
But I would never want to work for them.
Are WotC trying to drive customers away? This makes absolutely no sense to me. Can anyone explain this decision?
Simple: based on their previous products, they have an idea of how many copies this book will sell, and it isn't enough to justify printing the same number of books as they've been producing, and so with a more limited release, they've got to keep those product where they'll sell the best.
I talked to my close friend who works in the publishing industry- she has specifically dealt with Amazon. The reasons why Wizards is doing this can be one of many- none I endorse or dispute.
-they run the risk of pissing off Amazon by not selling through them (I've seen this happen). This could be an experiment that Wizards is doing to see how far they can push the major distributors (or keep from being pushed themselves by them). Never, ever underestimate the swag of major distributors.
-they might not want to pay for storage space for the book. Storage space is a big factor in costs when it comes to printed books.
-perhaps Wizards didn't like the price that Amazon, and other distributors, demanded for the book. So they opted to sell it on their terms to the FLGS.
My opinion- this is a freaking win-win for the little guys! FLGS have a hard time competing with Amazon and what not. This gives them a chance to sell a book in more volume than ever before. This, in itself, is awesome.
Amazon, and Wal-Mart, are cancers for the small businesses. Shame on those for supporting them!
Amazon, and Wal-Mart, are cancers for the small businesses. Shame on those for supporting them!
As you've quoted me in this and then called shame on those who support Amazon, I feel obliged to respond.
As I think I've made perfectly clear, I am in no way anti-FLGS, anti small business, or, god forbid, supporting something that you have bizarrely labelled as a cancer!
Firstly, let's get some perspective, we are talking about consumer choice in a free market economy and not a horrific, often fatal disease so let's not escalate this into emmotive language unnecessarily. Having watched several people I know die of cancer including both my parents, this is not, in any way, the same thing.
Secondly, as I think I've made clear, my choice was made several years ago partly due to a move of office and partly due a lack of D&D stock. I have spent literally thousands of pounds in the FLGS I refer to but it is no longer worthwhile.
A speculative journey to the FLGS would require a one hour round trip from my office during my lunch break (discounting any time spent in the store) and roughly an hour and a half each way from home. In addition, as the store is in the centre of a city, it would require me to shell out around about 30% the cost of an average D&D book in parking costs and it could still be a wasted trip. If an FLGS was available in a place that was more convenient to me, I would gladly support it despite the higher prices that I would invariably pay.
At present, I order from Amazon (although support is a little strong) provided they stock what I am requiring and can deliver it promptly. I also support other UK online retailers including Gameslore (who are very good) and IGUK (also good). My goal here is not to pay the cheapest price I can, it is to purchase what I wish to with minimal hassle. While it may sound harsh to say this, small businesses are not charities nor, I suspect, do most of them want to be treated as such. I would support them over online retailers if it were not likely that the cost to my time and the additional related costs to make the purchase (parking, petrol etc.) were not disproportionnate. At present they are so I will continue my current purchasing habits and and will not buy this book unless it is available in the online retailers I currently use.
Amazon, and Wal-Mart, are cancers for the small businesses. Shame on those for supporting them!
As you've quoted me in this and then called shame on those who support Amazon, I feel obliged to respond.
As I think I've made perfectly clear, I am in no way anti-FLGS, anti small business, or, god forbid, supporting something that you have bizarrely labelled as a cancer!
Firstly, let's get some perspective, we are talking about consumer choice in a free market economy and not a horrific, often fatal disease so let's not escalate this into emmotive language unnecessarily. Having watched several people I know die of cancer including both my parents, this is not, in any way, the same thing.
Secondly, as I think I've made clear, my choice was made several years ago partly due to a move of office and partly due a lack of D&D stock. I have spent literally thousands of pounds in the FLGS I refer to but it is no longer worthwhile.
A speculative journey to the FLGS would require a one hour round trip from my office during my lunch break (discounting any time spent in the store) and roughly an hour and a half each way from home. In addition, as the store is in the centre of a city, it would require me to shell out around about 30% the cost of an average D&D book in parking costs and it could still be a wasted trip. If an FLGS was available in a place that was more convenient to me, I would gladly support it despite the higher prices that I would invariably pay.
At present, I order from Amazon (although support is a little strong) provided they stock what I am requiring and can deliver it promptly. I also support other UK online retailers including Gameslore (who are very good) and IGUK (also good). My goal here is not to pay the cheapest price I can, it is to purchase what I wish to with minimal hassle. While it may sound harsh to say this, small businesses are not charities nor, I suspect, do most of them want to be treated as such. I would support them over online retailers if it were not likely that the cost to my time and the additional related costs to make the purchase (parking, petrol etc.) were not disproportionnate. At present they are so I will continue my current purchasing habits and and will not buy this book unless it is available in the online retailers I currently use.
Free market, eh? How about free speech. Amazon and Wal-Mart are cancers on FLGS. I grew up in the wastelands of Western USA, back in the 80's I had to drive 2.5 hours to the nearest city with a hobby store (well, my parents did). After college the nearest store was even further, 3-4 hours away. I still did it. So, no sympathy for not having a FLGS "conveniently located near you".
Well, that is your fault you view the term cancer as offensive. I think it is a very appropriate term for how they are taking over all the other stores and turning them into Wal-marts and what not. Sorta like how a cancer cell turns another cells into a cancer cell. So I will damn well use the word cancer whenever I want.
Good for you for driving all that way to your FLGS. I did the same (well my parents did as yours did) in the 80s since there was no online ordering and no alternative. I was also a child and had no particular responsibilities so I relied on my parents to take me there when it was convenient to them (as you may also have done). Now, the market is different as are my circumstances. I work 50-60 hours a week and have a six week old daughter and I cannot justify spending the money and time involved on speculative trips to the game store I used to use. That is my right as a consumer and it does not give you any right to call shame on me any more than I can call shame on you for your purchasing decisions.
Buy what you like where you like.
Well, that is your fault you view the term cancer as offensive. I think it is a very appropriate term for how they are taking over all the other stores and turning them into Wal-marts and what not. Sorta like how a cancer cell turns another cells into a cancer cell. So I will damn well use the word cancer whenever I want.
I don't view the term cancer as offensive, I view it as inappropriate and emotive in the circumstances you describe. I also consider it offensive that you have labelled me as someone who supports such a thing. I do not. As I have already said, I have a great deal of experience of what cancer actually is and this is not it.
Good for you for driving all that way to your FLGS. I did the same (well my parents did as yours did) in the 80s since there was no online ordering and no alternative. I was also a child and had no particular responsibilities so I relied on my parents to take me there when it was convenient to them (as you may also have done). Now, the market is different, I work 50-60 hours a week and have a six week old daughter and I cannot justify spending the money and time involved on speculative trips to the game store I used to use. That is my right as a consumer and it does not give you any right to call shame on me any more than I can call shame on you for your purchasing decisions.
Buy what you like where you like just don't label me for my decisions or claim I support something which I do not.
Alright, alright. I'll back off. Sorry for offending you about the term cancer.
Alright, alright. I'll back off. Sorry for offending you about the term cancer.
Thanks. Appreciate the apology.
Not arguing with the general philosophy and would support my FLGS if I could but I literally do not have the time. I also applaud WotC to a certain extent for the decision if that is the idea behind it but just wanted to flag up in this thread that I would not be buying the book that way.
Alright, alright. I'll back off. Sorry for offending you about the term cancer.
Thanks. Appreciate the apology.
Not arguing with the general philosophy and would support my FLGS if I could but I literally do not have the time. I also applaud WotC to a certain extent for the decision if that is the idea behind it but just wanted to flag up in this thread that I would not be buying the book that way.
Yeah, I was being an ass-hat. I can see where you are coming from with not being able to order online. It's an odd move by wizards.
wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg...
You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violations, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
You do realize that by the time you came along they had already settled their disagreement like adults?
Not to mention, Medriev's post got edited, but the original text is all still there in the quote box in Hunterian7's next post.
(Am I the only one who sees absolutely nothing objectionable in what was apparently deleted?
)Just some food for thought.....
In my opinion and my bosses opinion as well, the Core Books should be available at Amazon the rest should be in a FLGS only. Until they can come up with some incentive for buying in store only I think this is a great idea only making this book available to customers.
In my opinion and my bosses opinion as well, the Core Books should be available at Amazon the rest should be in a FLGS only.
So, virtually nobody outside the USA should be able to play D&D with anything other than the basic core books? Screw that. Sideways.
just wait for the book and grade it based on its contents. i swear its like some of you guys WANT D&D to fail
people love to get nuts over everything, even if its imagined
just wait for the book and grade it based on its contents. i swear its like some of you guys WANT D&D to fail
A good portion of the "fans" here actually do want the current iteration of D&D to fail.
I am looking forward to this book.
i swear its like some of you guys WANT D&D to fail
Not D&D. Hasblo and WotCrackpipe. Give the game to someone who actually cares to make something good with it. And by good I mean pre 2010. When antiCS cannot even return an e-mail regarding a password you know they just don't care.
So you DO want D&D to fail? Because Hasbro owns D&D. And they are the second largest toymaker(Mattel has Barbie) on the planet, so they aren't going down any time soon. And they aren't going to sell it. Period. Fanboy wet dreams aren't going to change that.
And do you seriously think D&D failing would even damage WotC? They probably make more money from M:tG in a month than they do from D&D in a year. Pen and Paper RPGs are a dying business.
i swear its like some of you guys WANT D&D to fail
Not D&D. Hasblo and WotCrackpipe. Give the game to someone who actually cares to make something good with it. And by good I mean pre 2010. When antiCS cannot even return an e-mail regarding a password you know they just don't care.
so there it is out in the open, you want a whole company and its employees and their families to topple, just because you want it your way.
and if you want them to fail so badly why do you troll their forums day and night?
i swear its like some of you guys WANT D&D to fail
Not D&D. Hasblo and WotCrackpipe. Give the game to someone who actually cares to make something good with it. And by good I mean pre 2010. When antiCS cannot even return an e-mail regarding a password you know they just don't care.
So you DO want D&D to fail? Because Hasbro owns D&D. And they are the second largest toymaker(Mattel has Barbie) on the planet, so they aren't going down any time soon. And they aren't going to sell it. Period. Fanboy wet dreams aren't going to change that.
And do you seriously think D&D failing would even damage WotC? They probably make more money from M:tG in a month than they do from D&D in a year. Pen and Paper RPGs are a dying business.
i just want item rarity to fail
i swear its like some of you guys WANT D&D to fail
Not D&D. Hasblo and WotCrackpipe. Give the game to someone who actually cares to make something good with it. And by good I mean pre 2010. When antiCS cannot even return an e-mail regarding a password you know they just don't care.
So you DO want D&D to fail? Because Hasbro owns D&D. And they are the second largest toymaker(Mattel has Barbie) on the planet, so they aren't going down any time soon. And they aren't going to sell it. Period. Fanboy wet dreams aren't going to change that.
And do you seriously think D&D failing would even damage WotC? They probably make more money from M:tG in a month than they do from D&D in a year. Pen and Paper RPGs are a dying business.
i just want item rarity to fail
that is probably not going to fail.
In my opinion and my bosses opinion as well, the Core Books should be available at Amazon the rest should be in a FLGS only.
So, virtually nobody outside the USA should be able to play D&D with anything other than the basic core books? Screw that. Sideways.
yeah I do not want anyone outside the US to play D&D
go ahead you guys can get it from online retailers. It is here in this country that online retailers who can buy in bulk can sell it cheap and pay no taxes on those sales.
They are killing the business of game stores, it is not that pen and paper games are dying. They might be in your area because you never had a great store. I am lucky to have several great stores in the Chicago area. I have people who won't even concider buying a book from a FLGS anymore not because they dislike the store or the savings on the book itself. It is the free shipping when they spend .XX about of cash to qualify for it.
They also get mad that Premier WotC retailers get the product early and they have to wait. They say that is unfair.
You guys outside the US go and get it online I do not care I am more concerned about my local stores and the small business in this country than your pocket books.
In my opinion and my bosses opinion as well, the Core Books should be available at Amazon the rest should be in a FLGS only..
In my opinion, every book should come with a free pony.
yeah I do not want anyone outside the US to play D&D
Oh, I realised you didn't actually mean that. But it's the inevitable consequence of what you propose.
WotC can't supply products to Amazon (for example) but ban them from selling those products inside the US. Even if Amazon agreed to only offer the products on the non-US versions of their site (i.e. amazon.co.uk, amazon.fr, amazon.de, etc.) there would be nothing to prevent an American ordering from one of those sites. Even with international shipping, they'd still probably be undercutting US FLGSs.
I appreciate your desire to preserve FLGSs. But your proposed solution is unworkable at best and downright destructive to the hobby at worst.
Even if WotC could somehow avoid the international problem, there is still the issue that plenty of people in the US don't have a FLGS and so would still be effectively cut out of the hobby if D&D products were only available through FLGSs.
If you truly want the hobby to grow and flourish, you should be in favour of broadening the availability of D&D products, not artificially restricting them. It really will be tragic when FLGSs cease to exist, but that's going to eventually happen no matter what WotC does (just like all bricks-and-mortar stores that sell things it's not absolutely necessary to physically see/touch before buying). The question is not whether FLGSs survive, it's whether D&D survives their eventual, inevitable demise. If D&D is primarily reliant on FLGSs for moving product and bringing new blood into the hobby, it will die right along with them.
as someone who works in a FLGS and for another big box retailer. The FLGS' can not compete with Amazon selling their books at the price they do. Also with in store game events like Encounters and Lair Assault this is a way for WotC to throw a bone to the FLGS.
In my opinion and my bosses opinion as well, the Core Books should be available at Amazon the rest should be in a FLGS only. Until they can come up with some incentive for buying in store only I think this is a great idea only making this book available to customers.
We don't have a FLGS anywhere in the Cleveland area and the closest Barnes and Noble is in legacy village, which is about 25 miles away from where I live. When Borders finally closes there will no longer be a bookstore anywhere close to where I live, literally.
as someone who works in a FLGS and for another big box retailer. The FLGS' can not compete with Amazon selling their books at the price they do. Also with in store game events like Encounters and Lair Assault this is a way for WotC to throw a bone to the FLGS.
In my opinion and my bosses opinion as well, the Core Books should be available at Amazon the rest should be in a FLGS only. Until they can come up with some incentive for buying in store only I think this is a great idea only making this book available to customers.
We don't have a FLGS anywhere in the Cleveland area and the closest Barnes and Noble is in legacy village, which is about 25 miles away from where I live. When Borders finally closes there will no longer be a bookstore anywhere close to where I live, literally.
From what I hear from some people who work at Barnes and Noble is that they won't be carrying a lot of the new stuff.
From today's rule of 3: "The book now includes some new material"
The implication of this: it didn't actually have new material in it before. Another book of O4e errata we would have to pay for, no wonder is was scrapped along with the Class Compendium. Looking forward to finding out what the ratio of new to reprited content is now that they've taken all this extra time on it.
I actually agree with this interpetation, that MME was originally a reprint book. Like the Class Compendium which was equally cancelled. It was likely taking the best material from the PHB and AV1 and adding the rarity mechanic overtop and repackaging for Essentials players. But when there wasn't a wave of new players and sales from Essentials (and they realized reprinting a book with 5% new content in the form of errata two years after it was printed when the original is still often on shelves is silly) they cancelled both books.
Now we get MME, likely still with a heavy percentage of recycled content, but now with new items as well. I'm not going to complain about that, they made the right call and delayed the book to give the content some value. I just wish they'd be honest with us instead of trying to spin it. They should just say "we were unhappy with the lack of new content and delayed the book to add more content. And playtest the content."
We should know by now that that doesn't happen.
I actually agree with this interpetation, that MME was originally a reprint book. Like the Class Compendium which was equally cancelled. It was likely taking the best material from the PHB and AV1 and adding the rarity mechanic overtop and repackaging for Essentials players. But when there wasn't a wave of new players and sales from Essentials (and they realized reprinting a book with 5% new content in the form of errata two years after it was printed when the original is still often on shelves is silly) they cancelled both books.
Now we get MME, likely still with a heavy percentage of recycled content, but now with new items as well. I'm not going to complain about that, they made the right call and delayed the book to give the content some value. I just wish they'd be honest with us instead of trying to spin it. They should just say "we were unhappy with the lack of new content and delayed the book to add more content. And playtest the content."
I dunno, I mean they did tell us about one of the items that was originally in it which was new(Haunted Armor). If it was originally reprints, then iw ould think they would have released at least some of the updated rarities by now.
In my opinion and my bosses opinion as well, the Core Books should be available at Amazon the rest should be in a FLGS only.
So, virtually nobody outside the USA should be able to play D&D with anything other than the basic core books? Screw that. Sideways.
As an international player as well, i call this bullshit.
There are plenty of FLGS that have an online presence and sell abroad, as has already been stated, starting with many in the Amazon Marketplace.
Amazon and other big bookstores arent the only online retailers out there.
And im sure that, when the book is actually available, there will be a handy topic listing stores that sell internationally, anyway.
i just want item rarity to fail
Why?!!
If your group doesnt agree with it, dont use it.
But some, like me and my group, dont want every place to have a Walmart-like place for magic items, that removes much of the magic (pun intended) they have, and give with each one found.
Ignoring it is much easier that each DM having to create its own list; having such system in place makes everyone happy, IMHO.
What is wrong with that, plz tell?!!
It was a fix for somethiong which wasn't broken. Then the fix was broken all to hell as they failed to implement it properly. Let it go. It wasn't needed in the first place.
Player I want two holy avengers... GM no way. Yes it was that simple. Actually the HA in 4.0 sucks so nevermind.
It depends on your definition of broken; if you want the players to go to Walmagic-R-Us for shopping, sure, it wasnt broken; neither it needs to be affected by this system, just ignore it (as it has been done and recommended even by WotC).
Your solution for the DM veto required that the DM either create its own list of acceptable magical items (from the hundreds available), or for him to sign on each item the players choose (with a time consuming and not so fun back-and-forth); either option is less than ideal, IMHO.
With the rarity system, it gives some free range for the players to equip themselves (the Common range, which was the weak point of the implementation, and which this product is supposed to fix) without having the DM sign on every item, and for the DM a framework of which articles to add as special rewards or adventure plot points.
The only ones i see that may feel threatened by this are the power players that make builds with some equipment in mind, and play in a group where the DM is pro-rarity; in that case, either make your point to the DM, or find another group closer to your game preferences.
It was a fix for somethiong which wasn't broken. Then the fix was broken all to hell as they failed to implement it properly. Let it go. It wasn't needed in the first place.
Player I want two holy avengers... GM no way. Yes it was that simple. Actually the HA in 4.0 sucks so nevermind.
It depends on your definition of broken; if you want the players to go to Walmagic-R-Us for shopping, sure, it wasnt broken; neither it needs to be affected by this system, just ignore it (as it has been done and recommended even by WotC).
Your solution for the DM veto required that the DM either create its own list of acceptable magical items (from the hundreds available), or for him to sign on each item the players choose (with a time consuming and not so fun back-and-forth); either option is less than ideal, IMHO.
With the rarity system, it gives some free range for the players to equip themselves (the Common range, which was the weak point of the implementation, and which this product is supposed to fix) without having the DM sign on every item, and for the DM a framework of which articles to add as special rewards or adventure plot points.
The only ones i see that may feel threatened by this are the power players that make builds with some equipment in mind, and play in a group where the DM is pro-rarity; in that case, either make your point to the DM, or find another group closer to your game preferences.
Just want to add that I don't see the problem with the rarity system, it's basically just a filter that can be easily ignored if you have no use for it, but is very useful for those who prefer such filters.
Just want to add that I don't see the problem with the rarity system, it's basically just a filter that can be easily ignored if you have no use for it, but is very useful for those who prefer such filters.
Exactly.
But some, like me and my group, dont want every place to have a Walmart-like place for magic items
Then you and your group really shouldnt make it that way... I am pretty sure that would be your choice
Me an mine think its pretty idiotic that a paragon going on epic Articier who is a Hephaestus alike Demi-god style would be limited to making a meager handful of common items