More artifacts in the second Adventurers' Vault? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

More artifacts in the second Adventurers' Vault?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Hippolyte
Jul 30, 2009 19:09:24 I want more artifacts! More fascinating stories, dreadful curses, felicitous blessings, world-spanning quests, terrible dark lords wielding awesome rods and dreadful angelic champions girded with terrifying relics, trapped spirits and demonic weapons!

Oh. And have each artifact a variant story for each setting: points of light, forgotten realms and Eberron. Call me lazy, but even a single line of fluff helps me more easily fit something into a campaign.
#2
vebrandsson
Jul 30, 2009 19:27:56 Artifacts are "Supposed" to appear in DM designed supplements (DMGs, Open Grave/Draconomicon type books, and things of that nature) not player supplements like an Adventurer's Vault or a PHB. Players are not supposed to know the full effects and numbers behind artifacts.
#3
terradrius
Jul 30, 2009 22:20:57
Artifacts are "Supposed" to appear in DM designed supplements (DMGs, Open Grave/Draconomicon type books, and things of that nature) not player supplements like an Adventurer's Vault or a PHB. Players are not supposed to know the full effects and numbers behind artifacts.

Regardless, there are going to be artifacts in the AV2, so the OP is getting his wish. See: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/241777200
#4
gregt_314
Jul 30, 2009 22:25:37
Artifacts are "Supposed" to appear in DM designed supplements (DMGs, Open Grave/Draconomicon type books, and things of that nature) not player supplements like an Adventurer's Vault or a PHB. Players are not supposed to know the full effects and numbers behind artifacts.

On the other hand, the story items in AV2 come with DM quest fluff. So I'm not sure that argument holds.

Besides which the original AV vault was so thoroughly dodgy when it came to balance that in my campaign I've had to declare it a DM book and say items from it are only available with DM approval. So AV2 would only be following precedent there, as far as I'm concerned.

It amazes me they can get the "X Power" books so (generally) right yet get the item supplements so horribly wrong.
#5
riddling-reaver
Jul 30, 2009 23:27:57 They shouldn't be player supplements at all. I despise the very concept of "magic shoppes." Especially in a so-called points of light setting.
#6
gregt_314
Jul 30, 2009 23:35:51
They shouldn't be player supplements at all. I despise the very concept of "magic shoppes." Especially in a so-called points of light setting.

Assuming a group size of six, player supplements sell to 5 or 6 players and DM supplements sell to one. It's a pretty easy business decision.

But can I take a moment to pause and congratulate you on the awesomeness of your forum name and the reference it makes? I might need to go back and dig out one or both of the FF systems for my next beer and pretzels game.
#7
Bolongo
Jul 31, 2009 3:16:25
Besides which the original AV vault was so thoroughly dodgy when it came to balance that in my campaign I've had to declare it a DM book and say items from it are only available with DM approval.

QFT!!!
#8
echoshifting
Jul 31, 2009 23:58:26
Assuming a group size of six, player supplements sell to 5 or 6 players and DM supplements sell to one. It's a pretty easy business decision.

I'm not sure this argument holds water. Does anyone know if there are numbers to support this? Among my circle of friends who play D&D, any one of the three DMs - me and two other guys - has bought more 4th edition books than all three player groups combined. Of our groups, nearly all the players have PHBs and maybe a third have PHB2. Meanwhile, the DMs all have each of those, as well as a slew of other books. I think there is one copy of Martial Power and one copy of Arcane Power floating around among all three groups. No AVs - although I have a copy and another DM has a copy. We're both planning to buy AV2 but none of our players will.

For the AV/Power info my players need, they flip through the books at book stores, dig it up online, or peek at somebody's insider account/use their character builder (all three DMs have DDI but only one player). If they need info on the spot they'll get it in the compendium or the character buider, whereas I need those tools on top of hard copies to run a smooth game/design encounters.

Seriously, I hear this thing about player books always selling more but if I buy the Draconomicon, Open Grave, PHB2 and the Manual of the Planes and one of my players buys Arcane Power and two buy PHB2...doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps my groups have always been unique but I doubt it. The groups tend to share info, and that extends to insider.
#9
Hippolyte
Aug 01, 2009 1:09:15 And then there are players like me, who cannot get a regular game and console themselves with copies of every book possible. :D
#10
echoshifting
Aug 01, 2009 3:02:34
And then there are players like me, who cannot get a regular game and console themselves with copies of every book possible. :D

Play by webcam in my game! Er...well I guess the time zone might be an issue... :P

/offtopic
#11
atrius2006
Aug 01, 2009 5:26:27
I'm not sure this argument holds water. Does anyone know if there are numbers to support this? Among my circle of friends who play D&D, any one of the three DMs - me and two other guys - has bought more 4th edition books than all three player groups combined. Of our groups, nearly all the players have PHBs and maybe a third have PHB2. Meanwhile, the DMs all have each of those, as well as a slew of other books. I think there is one copy of Martial Power and one copy of Arcane Power floating around among all three groups. No AVs - although I have a copy and another DM has a copy. We're both planning to buy AV2 but none of our players will.

For the AV/Power info my players need, they flip through the books at book stores, dig it up online, or peek at somebody's insider account/use their character builder (all three DMs have DDI but only one player). If they need info on the spot they'll get it in the compendium or the character buider, whereas I need those tools on top of hard copies to run a smooth game/design encounters.

Seriously, I hear this thing about player books always selling more but if I buy the Draconomicon, Open Grave, PHB2 and the Manual of the Planes and one of my players buys Arcane Power and two buy PHB2...doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps my groups have always been unique but I doubt it. The groups tend to share info, and that extends to insider.

Haha! This argument definately does not hold water for my group! I am only one person in my group who owns more than the first PHB, with the exception of one other player who is a fan of Eberron and thusly bought EPG. I am a player in this group, the only book my DM owns is PHB. Mind you, he has a DDI subscription (and so do I). I have no issue with buying the books (besides them killing my back when I walk around with them before and after work each week), they are good for toilet reading material and useful for coming up with character ideas BEFORE they get into the compendium and CB. The only books I do not own are FRCG, ECG and Draconicon. Draconincon is tempting to pick up.

*Has evil thought of using Monster Builder to creature a Rainbow Dragon...*

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Hippolyte Jul 30, 2009 19:09:24	I want more artifacts! More fascinating stories, dreadful curses, felicitous blessings, world-spanning quests, terrible dark lords wielding awesome rods and dreadful angelic champions girded with terrifying relics, trapped spirits and demonic weapons! Oh. And have each artifact a variant story for each setting: points of light, forgotten realms and Eberron. Call me lazy, but even a single line of fluff helps me more easily fit something into a campaign.
#2 vebrandsson Jul 30, 2009 19:27:56	Artifacts are "Supposed" to appear in DM designed supplements (DMGs, Open Grave/Draconomicon type books, and things of that nature) not player supplements like an Adventurer's Vault or a PHB. Players are not supposed to know the full effects and numbers behind artifacts.
#3 terradrius Jul 30, 2009 22:20:57	Artifacts are "Supposed" to appear in DM designed supplements (DMGs, Open Grave/Draconomicon type books, and things of that nature) not player supplements like an Adventurer's Vault or a PHB. Players are not supposed to know the full effects and numbers behind artifacts. Regardless, there are going to be artifacts in the AV2, so the OP is getting his wish. See: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/241777200
#4 gregt_314 Jul 30, 2009 22:25:37	Artifacts are "Supposed" to appear in DM designed supplements (DMGs, Open Grave/Draconomicon type books, and things of that nature) not player supplements like an Adventurer's Vault or a PHB. Players are not supposed to know the full effects and numbers behind artifacts. On the other hand, the story items in AV2 come with DM quest fluff. So I'm not sure that argument holds. Besides which the original AV vault was so thoroughly dodgy when it came to balance that in my campaign I've had to declare it a DM book and say items from it are only available with DM approval. So AV2 would only be following precedent there, as far as I'm concerned. It amazes me they can get the "X Power" books so (generally) right yet get the item supplements so horribly wrong.
#5 riddling-reaver Jul 30, 2009 23:27:57	They shouldn't be player supplements at all. I despise the very concept of "magic shoppes." Especially in a so-called points of light setting.
#6 gregt_314 Jul 30, 2009 23:35:51	They shouldn't be player supplements at all. I despise the very concept of "magic shoppes." Especially in a so-called points of light setting. Assuming a group size of six, player supplements sell to 5 or 6 players and DM supplements sell to one. It's a pretty easy business decision. But can I take a moment to pause and congratulate you on the awesomeness of your forum name and the reference it makes? I might need to go back and dig out one or both of the FF systems for my next beer and pretzels game.
#7 Bolongo Jul 31, 2009 3:16:25	Besides which the original AV vault was so thoroughly dodgy when it came to balance that in my campaign I've had to declare it a DM book and say items from it are only available with DM approval. QFT!!!
#8 echoshifting Jul 31, 2009 23:58:26	Assuming a group size of six, player supplements sell to 5 or 6 players and DM supplements sell to one. It's a pretty easy business decision. I'm not sure this argument holds water. Does anyone know if there are numbers to support this? Among my circle of friends who play D&D, any one of the three DMs - me and two other guys - has bought more 4th edition books than all three player groups combined. Of our groups, nearly all the players have PHBs and maybe a third have PHB2. Meanwhile, the DMs all have each of those, as well as a slew of other books. I think there is one copy of Martial Power and one copy of Arcane Power floating around among all three groups. No AVs - although I have a copy and another DM has a copy. We're both planning to buy AV2 but none of our players will. For the AV/Power info my players need, they flip through the books at book stores, dig it up online, or peek at somebody's insider account/use their character builder (all three DMs have DDI but only one player). If they need info on the spot they'll get it in the compendium or the character buider, whereas I need those tools on top of hard copies to run a smooth game/design encounters. Seriously, I hear this thing about player books always selling more but if I buy the Draconomicon, Open Grave, PHB2 and the Manual of the Planes and one of my players buys Arcane Power and two buy PHB2...doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps my groups have always been unique but I doubt it. The groups tend to share info, and that extends to insider.
#9 Hippolyte Aug 01, 2009 1:09:15	And then there are players like me, who cannot get a regular game and console themselves with copies of every book possible. :D
#10 echoshifting Aug 01, 2009 3:02:34	And then there are players like me, who cannot get a regular game and console themselves with copies of every book possible. :D Play by webcam in my game! Er...well I guess the time zone might be an issue... :P /offtopic
#11 atrius2006 Aug 01, 2009 5:26:27	I'm not sure this argument holds water. Does anyone know if there are numbers to support this? Among my circle of friends who play D&D, any one of the three DMs - me and two other guys - has bought more 4th edition books than all three player groups combined. Of our groups, nearly all the players have PHBs and maybe a third have PHB2. Meanwhile, the DMs all have each of those, as well as a slew of other books. I think there is one copy of Martial Power and one copy of Arcane Power floating around among all three groups. No AVs - although I have a copy and another DM has a copy. We're both planning to buy AV2 but none of our players will. For the AV/Power info my players need, they flip through the books at book stores, dig it up online, or peek at somebody's insider account/use their character builder (all three DMs have DDI but only one player). If they need info on the spot they'll get it in the compendium or the character buider, whereas I need those tools on top of hard copies to run a smooth game/design encounters. Seriously, I hear this thing about player books always selling more but if I buy the Draconomicon, Open Grave, PHB2 and the Manual of the Planes and one of my players buys Arcane Power and two buy PHB2...doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps my groups have always been unique but I doubt it. The groups tend to share info, and that extends to insider. Haha! This argument definately does not hold water for my group! I am only one person in my group who owns more than the first PHB, with the exception of one other player who is a fan of Eberron and thusly bought EPG. I am a player in this group, the only book my DM owns is PHB. Mind you, he has a DDI subscription (and so do I). I have no issue with buying the books (besides them killing my back when I walk around with them before and after work each week), they are good for toilet reading material and useful for coming up with character ideas BEFORE they get into the compendium and CB. The only books I do not own are FRCG, ECG and Draconicon. Draconincon is tempting to pick up. Has evil thought of using Monster Builder to creature a Rainbow Dragon...