So 4E comes out - I buy the main books. Still good. FR campaign setting comes out. I read it, become slightly confused, but still all good. Then I find out that there are no more planned releases for forgotten realms. What? See, what peeves me here is that, when things like PHB3 comes out, and there's loads of fluff for shardmind or minotaurs or wilden, but how do they all work in forgotten realms? Or when I buy Manual of the Planes and find out that most of what's described in it doesn't work for forgotten realms. Nor does the Underdark book (wait, didn't the concept of Underdark originate in forgotten realms? Nevermind). Nor does the Elemental Chaos book, or probably the upcoming Astral Sea book.
I buy them, because lore generally interests me, and I want to use concepts like the Underdark and the other planes in my game but they end up sitting on my shelf without any use whatsoever. Instead i have to rely on the very limited information provided in the Forgotten Realms capmaign guide which is about as useful as a single prawn cracker when you're starving. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but 3rd edition had numerous sourcebooks for forgotten realms, so why are we left with nothing this time round? And ofcourse I could hunt those sourcebooks down on ebay with balooned up prices, but wait, the timeline has moved a 100 years into the future and they will be just as useless as whatever is out for 4e.
I realise that this is an old topic, and that all you guys have probably discussed this to death, but I'm still posting this angry one man rant because I have been a faithfull 4E customer, owning about 3/4 of all the books out there at the moment, not to mention the piles of miniatures and tiles and all the other accessories. So after I've spent this insane amount of money on 4E I'm hoping that the dev's hear this and make some positive changes and give us some forgotten realms material. Hopefully.
Fingers crossed.
Adapting different races and terrains for different campaigns would make for some excellent articles in Dungeon or Dragon. There are some good opportunities there for individuals wanting to show their creative talents. Especially since WotC is taking submissions for articles.
DDi is mostly Preview articles and throw away content anyways, universally ignored.
Please, there has been no support in DDi either. I would say that some adventures based on the released settings would be nice, and perhaps some books on specific kingdoms/territories/huge cities might be bigger sellers than the race pamplets.
Books specific to a campaign setting are purchased on a much smaller scale than any other books. It is a fact. Books with more generic details are going to have a broader appeal and will sell more. This is the approach to books this time around and, I think, a much better one. If you want your product to remain a viable entity, it kind of behooves you to make it appealing to as much of your audience as possible. It seems to me that WotC is taking lessons from past editions and trying to take a somewhat different approach this time around. As far as I'm concerned they are doing very well.
The reason we may not be seeing much support can be various reasons. The in-house writers may be to busy on dead-tree products to much work into the digital stuff. There may also be a lack of good ideas right now as much fluff remains out there in books of previous editions and it does not need to be put out again in a digital with a little 4E thrown in. Writing conversions, for the most part, is not what is wanted here. New information is what most people want.
As I said, this is an opportunity for people with those creative juices flowing to show their stuff. DDi and Dungeon and Dragon could, potentially, become a showcase for fan talent in an official forum.
I think doing support for the settings in DDi is akin to saying "We really don't want to be bothered by this now, here, have an article instead." I think there is room for more books for the settings that go into locals, more endepth religon, and more detail about the more abscure areas. (like the chasm in FR or the Mournlands in Eberron)
It was a disaster.
You basically have a quarter of a page taken up by "This big, brutish beast would probably be found in a random wilderness setting in Faerun. This big, brutish beast would probably be found in a random wilderness setting in Eberron. That's because this big, brutish beast was just described in an earlier paragraph as being found in random wilderness settings. Yay!"
It's not particularly difficult to find a place to insert various material into the settings. It won't be official, but it is very simple to do. And since it isn't wasting space having to have pages of every product devoted to holding someone's hand through a forgotten realms/other setting transition, it means more room for new material.
Most DMs homebrew, and a lot of the cosmology and lore is taken as inspiration and suggestion, not as established fact. Just as those DMs can work the material ideas into their own settings, it is rather easy to just find a place in the Realms for whatever particular aspect of the game you would like.
Bazaar of the Bizarre: The Legend of Drizzt Dragon #386 (article is in this month's issue and not up yet).
Realmslore: Vaasa Dungeon #177 (again it looks to be an upcoming article).
Spellscarred Dragon #385
The Gentle Ghost of Silverymoon Dungeon #175
The Way of Lost Power Dungeon #174
Monument of the Ancients Dungeon #170
These were just a few of the articles and adventures that are Forgotten Realms specific from just the last few issues. Forgotten Realms, being the first setting of this edition has had more support than others. Ed Greenwood writes Eye on the Realms in many issues now. There are also various articles for Eberron, too. They are supporting the two campaign settings already released. That support can vary for various needs, but it is there. Hell, even Dark Sun got an article way back in one of the first couple of digital issues and it's not even out yet.
I think many people retain the subscription for more than the Tools and Builder.
FR Support in Dungeon & Dragon
Bazaar of the Bizarre: The Legend of Drizzt Dragon #386 (article is in this month's issue and not up yet).
Realmslore: Vaasa Dungeon #177 (again it looks to be an upcoming article).
Spellscarred Dragon #385
The Gentle Ghost of Silverymoon Dungeon #175
The Way of Lost Power Dungeon #174
Monument of the Ancients Dungeon #170
These were just a few of the articles and adventures that are Forgotten Realms specific from just the last few issues. Forgotten Realms, being the first setting of this edition has had more support than others. Ed Greenwood writes Eye on the Realms in many issues now. There are also various articles for Eberron, too. They are supporting the two campaign settings already released. That support can vary for various needs, but it is there. Hell, even Dark Sun got an article way back in one of the first couple of digital issues and it's not even out yet.
I think many people retain the subscription for more than the Tools and Builder.
QFT
Bel
The reason we may not be seeing much support can be various reasons. The in-house writers may be to busy on dead-tree products to much work into the digital stuff. There may also be a lack of good ideas right now as much fluff remains out there in books of previous editions and it does not need to be put out again in a digital with a little 4E thrown in. Writing conversions, for the most part, is not what is wanted here. New information is what most people want.
See, I'd agree with the statement that writing convertions is not very productive. But the problem I have is that it's exactly what they've done to begin with in 4E. They converted old FR concepts like the astral plane, underdark and the shadow realm (with a changed name) and are now using those FR concepts in the main campaign setting (sidenote: can we please have a name for it? it's impossible to refer to it). So essentially, ripping off FR and not giving it anything back. And oh great, they're not gonna do the books cause it's not very profitable because the all-mighty credit crunch is killing the industry. That's a poor excuse, I think wizards are doing better than they've ever done. During 3E everybody played nWod and DnD was considered a hack/slash poor excuse for a roleplaying game and now it's bigger than ever, so I really doubt that releasing at least a single lore book for both campaign settings is going to hurt them very much.
For that mater I am not sure if the sections in the FRPG are regions, nations, or both. Nowhere have I even seen a map that shows national borders. Is whats shown in the FRPG just one continent in the world, or the entire world?
I played a lot in 2nd edition and have a majority of the Mystara content for OD&D and 2nd ed. I really liked that format as many of the products had parts speciffically for the player and parts strictly for the DM.
I personally wish they would spend more time on the campaign worlds they have already released before developing new ones. I am also geting overwhelmed by all the new classes. I mean they have hinted at 8 different power sources and with 4-6 classes per source, thats 32-48 classes. That seems way too much. How about just concentrating on campaign worlds for awhile.
There was no map of the realms, and each region gave only a small picture of the region. There is no way to get a feel for where it is in the realms, and who the neighbors are.
That's because that is the responsibility of the Campaign Guide, not the Player's Guide.
See, I'd agree with the statement that writing conversions is not very productive. But the problem I have is that it's exactly what they've done to begin with in 4E. They converted old FR concepts like the astral plane, underdark and the shadow realm (with a changed name) and are now using those FR concepts in the main campaign setting (sidenote: can we please have a name for it? it's impossible to refer to it). So essentially, ripping off FR and not giving it anything back.
The planes were around long before Toril. That said, what they are doing is not a straight up conversion. What they have done is take a concept, such as the Underdark, and made it into something which can be applied to any campaign. This has much more value this way than if they had made it exclusive to Forgotten Realms. Forgotten Realms fans get what they want but it is also a supplement which can be used by others and therefore has more people buying it. WotC wins as their dastardly plan is working.
And oh great, they're not gonna do the books cause it's not very profitable because the all-mighty credit crunch is killing the industry. That's a poor excuse, I think wizards are doing better than they've ever done. During 3E everybody played nWod and DnD was considered a hack/slash poor excuse for a roleplaying game and now it's bigger than ever, so I really doubt that releasing at least a single lore book for both campaign settings is going to hurt them very much.
They are doing better because they have changed their strategy for presenting material. And you want them to go back to the older way where they made books that didn't pay for themselves? How foolish would that be?
There was no map of the realms, and each region gave only a small picture of the region. There is no way to get a feel for where it is in the realms, and who the neighbors are.
That's because that is the responsibility of the Campaign Guide, not the Player's Guide.
What, so player's don't get a map? That's not very useful. I get the purpose of separating the setting into two books, it's more efficient, but that way you get to share one actual map between five-seven people.
What, so player's don't get a map? That's not very useful. I get the purpose of separating the setting into two books, it's more efficient, but that way you get to share one actual map between five-seven people.
A map is easy. They give you one for free on the site.
What, so player's don't get a map? That's not very useful. I get the purpose of separating the setting into two books, it's more efficient, but that way you get to share one actual map between five-seven people.
The Campaign Guide has a fold-out poster map. Presumably if a group is playing an FR campaign someone in the group has the Campaign Guide. Though I will admit that a scaled down page map in the Player's Guide would have been nice. Still, my group was one of the odd ones where no one had a copy of the Campaign Guide, and it took me less than 15 mins of search the good old interwebs to find an appropriate substitute.
Please, there has been no support in DDi either. I would say that some adventures based on the released settings would be nice, and perhaps some books on specific kingdoms/territories/huge cities might be bigger sellers than the race pamplets.
DDi is mostly Preview articles and throw away content anyways, universally ignored.
Ah thaX, you do so love showing your ignorance don't you. Where to start, where to start ....
Well, first off, you're wrong about no support, since there have been several city or region articles for FR in Dragon and Dungeon. And universally ignored? LOL. Wow, you really are clueless. Dragon is about as universally ignored as PHB2 is.
That is the 3.5 map, not the current one.
Really? This is the response? It was just for an example.
Okay, here is the new one for 4E, since you are being so picky.
That is the 3.5 map, not the current one.
Really? This is the response? It was just for an example.
Okay, here is the new one for 4E, since you are being so picky.
The point is that first off, I shouldn't have to put the book down go upstairs, turn on my computer, search the internet to do something that I should be able to do by turning to page 1. Second, even with that map it takes awhile to find where a specific region is on the map based on the small mini map they show. Or vise versa, if you are looking at the map, it is sometimes dificult to figure out what region a certain mountain range is in. One page in the book plus maybe a second image on each region to give a bigger picture on where the region is, would have helped alot.
I've been tempted to by the campaign book for the map, but haven't for two reasons. First I am afraid I will be too tempted to see information I shouldn't see, and second I don't think I should have to pay that much for a map I should already have.
I speak for myself, and a handful of others who don't use the tools because we have Macs, but have D&Di for the Magazines and the Compendium. But moreso for the Magazines. The Compendium alone, while extremely useful, wouldn't make that price worth it. But the magazines are marvellous.
QFT, all the way.
A list of the 33 Dungeon articles and Dragon articles about the Forgotten Realms:
Dungeon 155 Forgotten Realms Conversion for Keep on the Shadowfell.
Dungeon 156 Forgotten Realms Conversion for Thunderspire Labyrinth.
Dungeon 159 Menace of the Icy Spire (1st level adventure)
Dungeon 161 Campaign Workbook: Ruins of Starmantle (encounter adapted from a Forgotten Realms novel).
Dungeon 170 Monument of the Ancients (13th level adventure)
Dungeon 171 Campaign Workbook: Hero Battle: Drizzt
Dungeon 172 Explore Airspur: Villains and Vagabonds
Dungeon 172 Eye on the Realms by Ed Greenwood
Dungeon 174 Eye on the Realms by Ed Greenwood
Dungeon 175 Eye on the Realms by Ed Greenwood
Dungeon 176 Elemental Motes
Dungeon 176 Eye on the Realms by Ed Greenwood
Dragon 365 Backdrop: Cormyr
Dragon 366 Gontal
Dragon 366 Design & Development: The Hundred Year Leap
Dragon 367 Epic Faerun
Dragon 367 Ecology of the Genasi
Dragon 367 Class Acts: Swordmage
Dragon 367 Realmslore: Aural’s Hall
Dragon 370 Regions of the Realms
Dragon 372 Backdrop: Tarmalune
Dragon 375 Gontal: Dominions of Nehu
Dragon 376 Adventurers of the Realms
Dragon 376 Realmslore: Sarifal
Dragon 377 Explore Airspur
Dragon 378 Domains of Eberron and the Forgotten Realms
Dragon 378 Explore Airspur: Part 2
Dragon 379 Adventurers of the Realms
Dragon 380 Abyssal Genasi
Dragon 382 Swordmage Essentials
Dragon 382 Winning Races: Drow
Dragon 385 Class Acts: Swordmage
Dragon 385 Spellscarred
Dungeon 177Realmslore: Vaasa
We have a discussion of it going on over here.
So, obviously, there's a lot of Forgotten Realms support, far more than Eberron (simply because of being a year ahead), and a good sizeable amount of the fluffy articles as well as adventures when compared to the rest of Dungeon and Dragon magazines.
If you want more on the Realms, check out the magazines. They're completely canon to 4e, core to the main part of the game, and a venue for expansion into more perifery audiences without having to put out a book that may or may not sell enough to make it worth it.
The point is that first off, I shouldn't have to put the book down go upstairs, turn on my computer, search the internet to do something that I should be able to do by turning to page 1. Second, even with that map it takes awhile to find where a specific region is on the map based on the small mini map they show. Or vise versa, if you are looking at the map, it is sometimes dificult to figure out what region a certain mountain range is in. One page in the book plus maybe a second image on each region to give a bigger picture on where the region is, would have helped alot.
I've been tempted to by the campaign book for the map, but haven't for two reasons. First I am afraid I will be too tempted to see information I shouldn't see, and second I don't think I should have to pay that much for a map I should already have.
You know what? Your right, they should have put a map in the Player's Guide. It is probably why the Eberron Player's Guide ended up with one. Be that as it may, it is easy to find one so in the grand scheme of things it is rather trivial. Maybe not to you, maybe it is a deal breaker for you.
It doesn't change the fact that they are supporting the setting in DDi, which was more the point when it was alluded to that DDi was not supporting it. A map is hardly a deal breaker, especailly when it can easily be found through other resources.
Don't forget today's Dungeon article:
Realmslore: Vaasa
We have a discussion of it going on over here.
So, obviously, there's a lot of Forgotten Realms support, far more than Eberron (simply because of being a year ahead), and a good sizeable amount of the fluffy articles as well as adventures when compared to the rest of Dungeon and Dragon magazines.
If you want more on the Realms, check out the magazines. They're completely canon to 4e, core to the main part of the game, and a venue for expansion into more perifery audiences without having to put out a book that may or may not sell enough to make it worth it.
I was reading some threads over at Candlekeep and it looks like Brian James has an article on Chessenta coming out in the near future.
DDI has given us some quality FR material, but the continued support of the FR can't fall entirely on the James brothers, can it? If it is going to, then maybe they should be staff writers so that we could be confident in getting something good on a monthly basis (or maybe more!), rather than hoping for the occasional freelance piece?
Here it is! 243 pages (by my count) of Forgotten Realms goodness:ShowA list of the 33 Dungeon articles and Dragon articles about the Forgotten Realms:
Dungeon 155 Forgotten Realms Conversion for Keep on the Shadowfell.
Dungeon 156 Forgotten Realms Conversion for Thunderspire Labyrinth.
Dungeon 159 Menace of the Icy Spire (1st level adventure)
Dungeon 161 Campaign Workbook: Ruins of Starmantle (encounter adapted from a Forgotten Realms novel).
Dungeon 170 Monument of the Ancients (13th level adventure)
Dungeon 171 Campaign Workbook: Hero Battle: Drizzt
Dungeon 172 Explore Airspur: Villains and Vagabonds
Dungeon 172 Eye on the Realms by Ed Greenwood
Dungeon 174 Eye on the Realms by Ed Greenwood
Dungeon 175 Eye on the Realms by Ed Greenwood
Dungeon 176 Elemental Motes
Dungeon 176 Eye on the Realms by Ed Greenwood
Dragon 365 Backdrop: Cormyr
Dragon 366 Gontal
Dragon 366 Design & Development: The Hundred Year Leap
Dragon 367 Epic Faerun
Dragon 367 Ecology of the Genasi
Dragon 367 Class Acts: Swordmage
Dragon 367 Realmslore: Aural’s Hall
Dragon 370 Regions of the Realms
Dragon 372 Backdrop: Tarmalune
Dragon 375 Gontal: Dominions of Nehu
Dragon 376 Adventurers of the Realms
Dragon 376 Realmslore: Sarifal
Dragon 377 Explore Airspur
Dragon 378 Domains of Eberron and the Forgotten Realms
Dragon 378 Explore Airspur: Part 2
Dragon 379 Adventurers of the Realms
Dragon 380 Abyssal Genasi
Dragon 382 Swordmage Essentials
Dragon 382 Winning Races: Drow
Dragon 385 Class Acts: Swordmage
Dragon 385 Spellscarred
Personally I like the new approach, with the support through the DDI, but then again I'm the kind of player and GM, who tends to come up with my own ideas, so apart from a basic skeleton for a setting and an idea every here and there, I don't really need much more. I can do the customization all by myself and I enjoy the freedom I have this way.
The one thing I would complain about is, how I, who happens to like the default PoL setting, lacks information on the "proto-world" to even start out properly. But then again, this was part of the concept (and has always been, as far as I know).
The bottom line? You simply can't make everybody happy. But I can imagine with enough people in the DDI who voice their opiniosn strongly, you could form a movement, and between DDI subscribers staying, coming or leaving, I think the wizards can't choose to ignore such a movement. So, isn't the path of action obvious?
Here it is! 243 pages (by my count) of Forgotten Realms goodness:ShowA list of the 33 Dungeon articles and Dragon articles about the Forgotten Realms:
Dungeon 155 Forgotten Realms Conversion for Keep on the Shadowfell.
Dungeon 156 Forgotten Realms Conversion for Thunderspire Labyrinth.
Dungeon 159 Menace of the Icy Spire (1st level adventure)
Dungeon 161 Campaign Workbook: Ruins of Starmantle (encounter adapted from a Forgotten Realms novel).
Dungeon 170 Monument of the Ancients (13th level adventure)
Dungeon 171 Campaign Workbook: Hero Battle: Drizzt
Dungeon 172 Explore Airspur: Villains and Vagabonds
Dungeon 172 Eye on the Realms by Ed Greenwood
Dungeon 174 Eye on the Realms by Ed Greenwood
Dungeon 175 Eye on the Realms by Ed Greenwood
Dungeon 176 Elemental Motes
Dungeon 176 Eye on the Realms by Ed Greenwood
Dragon 365 Backdrop: Cormyr
Dragon 366 Gontal
Dragon 366 Design & Development: The Hundred Year Leap
Dragon 367 Epic Faerun
Dragon 367 Ecology of the Genasi
Dragon 367 Class Acts: Swordmage
Dragon 367 Realmslore: Aural’s Hall
Dragon 370 Regions of the Realms
Dragon 372 Backdrop: Tarmalune
Dragon 375 Gontal: Dominions of Nehu
Dragon 376 Adventurers of the Realms
Dragon 376 Realmslore: Sarifal
Dragon 377 Explore Airspur
Dragon 378 Domains of Eberron and the Forgotten Realms
Dragon 378 Explore Airspur: Part 2
Dragon 379 Adventurers of the Realms
Dragon 380 Abyssal Genasi
Dragon 382 Swordmage Essentials
Dragon 382 Winning Races: Drow
Dragon 385 Class Acts: Swordmage
Dragon 385 Spellscarred
Anything about Swordmages, Drow and Genasi IS about the Forgotten Realms, because those things originate in the realms, operate in the realms and are best suited to the realms.
No, no, no. That is not true. There is absolutely nothing in those articles to suggest a FR association, and like I said, one of them is clearly written with respect to the Points of Light setting. The Underdark originated in the FR too, but that doesn't make Underdark a FR supplement book.
You seem to want campaign settign fluff, such as names of towns, NPCs, inns, etc. All of that is found in superabundance in the Forgotten Realms novels.
Well, isn't that just grand. Maybe they could put some of that into some source books or DDI releases, like people here are asking for? That way I could actually use it.
Mechanics for Forgotten Realms races and classes are very useful and interestign to many players and dungeon masters in the Forgotten realms.
Those classes and races were introduced in the FRPG, but are no more FR races than humans or fighters are. They're core setting races and classes, and nothing published for them since the FRPG and FRCG shows any connection to the FR setting.
Furthermore, let no one forget the endless stream of adventures written solely for the Living Forgotten Realms in the RPGA. I have no idea how many of those there are, since I cannot play RPGA where I live, but I know there are many. Each module presumably has towns, NPCs, landmarks and monsters designed explicity for the Realms.
I guess I did forget about that, because it's not something that I have any access to. There's no RPGA here, either.
But I know everyone else hates adventure paths
I personally believe that most players not in the RPGA (which is exclusively Forgotten Realms) play in homebrewed worlds: certainly in all my years of roleplaying, the only times I played in a published world were when I played in published modules. Therefore, most dungeon masters get no support for their world from WOTC, indeed deliberately reject the supported worlds.
I suspect that is why WOTC decided not to support the Forgotten Realms to the same degree as in 3rd edition: not enough consumers demand it. Considering that, 243 pages of DDI is much,a nd it is also understandable why WOTC made several of those articles broad enough in scope to apply to more than one campaign world.
As far as novels go: I'm interested in D&D, not pulp fantasy literature. I play D&D in the Forgotten Realms, and I DM in the Forgotten Realms, and on occasion I play computer RPGs in the Forgotten Realms. I don't read novels from the Forgotten Realms. I believe I may have read one circa 1997, back when I valued my time so little that I even spent it reading (*shudder*) Dragonlance novels. I'm glad that the novels are written, sure. Other people seem to enjoy them enough, and some of them even compile information from the novels into wikis and other repositories, so I do get some benefit from that.
I'm not really that concerned if material comes in book form. With the exception of adventure modules, I'd prefer to have everything in PDF form. If support is going to come through DDI, super, that works for me. I just want to see more of it. As I said earlier in the thread, if WotC is going to rely on the James brothers for most of their FR material, they should just hire the James brothers to write a regular column (along the lines of their Realmslore or Backdrop articles), and maybe an adventure on the scale of Monument of the Ancients every few months. If I had that much, I'd be a very happy camper.
Once August comes, Dark Sun articles are going to take up the majority of Dungeon fluff articles. (Perhaps Eberron is the reason for the eight month haitus in Realms stuff which you mentioned.)
I agree (perhaps for different reasons) with your opinion that game-based fantasy literature is dreck, but perhaps there is a wiki out there based on all the data which can be mined from the Forgotten Realms novels. Then you would not have to endure the anachronistic dialogue and social mores.
(I still assert my claim about Dragon material. For example, you discount the Forgotten realms article about genasi ecology, because it makes no mention of Forgotten Realms locations but mentions some from the Points of Light. I, on the other hand, see that a sop to those readers who disdain the Realms: "Look, here are ways you can include this Forgotten realms race in your world." There is nothing in said article which is unusable by those playing in the realms.
Not a few dungeon masters exclude races and other material which are specific to various Campaign Settings. Wizards wants everyone to adopt the new mantra, "Everything is core.")
I used to regularly hangout over at the Paizo boards when they ran Dragon and Dungeon magazines and I remember the vocal calls for more FR and Eberron support...as well as the equally vocal complaints about too much campaign specific material. IMO, there's always been the perception among a lot of players and DMs that if they don't play in a particular campaign setting, then such articles are worthless to them. While I think that 4e has made great strides combating this perception, I think it still exists, and the editors have to walk a fine line (which gets finer as more settings are released). Currently, I think the 2-4 articles per month for each setting spread out between both magazines is probably the right way to go.
Furthermore, let no one forget the endless stream of adventures written solely for the Living Forgotten Realms in the RPGA. I have no idea how many of those there are, since I cannot play RPGA where I live, but I know there are many. Each module presumably has towns, NPCs, landmarks and monsters designed explicity for the Realms.[/font]
There are currently 130 modules avalable. However, the modules themselves are light on lore except for the fact that they have towns and personalities, etc. in them. The modules are considered to be canon.
Also, you can play the games online using OpenRPG, MapTools or Fantasy Grounds.
but perhaps there is a wiki out there based on all the data which can be mined from the Forgotten Realms novels.
This one is my personal favorite. They even have an up to date map of Faerûn.
I'm 33 with a wife and son. I work full time and am working on my master's degree. I have pets and a home to maintain. I don't have time to fully flesh out a world when I play. It's hard enough for my friends and I to get together once a month. That's why I've always liked the fluff books. They provide material for a campaign but leave enough mystery for the DM to add their own things to the campaign.
Take the Dark Sun setting coming up. That is hands down my favorite campaign setting. It's been close to 20 years since it first came out. It's great it's coming out for 4e, but christ, can't they make an exception and come out with a few extra books? Is it too much to ask?
I've actually quit buying a lot of their products now. By the time another edition comes out, there are going to be a dozen phb's, dmg's, etc. Fluff books are good for me because most of the material can still be used down the road.
Instead they can churn out splat after splat for Core D&D. Which I have quit buying. I feel 4E is really getting bloated.
When 5E comes, will WotC go into the 4E Sucks mode, we don't understand why anybody would play that broken game(Just keep buying the books until 5E is released in 10 months btw) refrain they used for the start of 4E.
Is it too much to ask?
It may be. Adventures and setting material are the lowest sellers yet have the same costs attached to them as other books. By concentrating on material with a universal appeal they will reach a broader audience and make a more viable and profitable product. The digital format allows them to release further material without the associated costs of the books, but they still need to have people write which takes them away from other bread and butter products.
No one is saying you have to like this format, but it is much more conducive to sustaining the D&D product.
5thed in 10 months? you might be on crack.
I don't think that's what he means. He's referring to a 10 month window between 5e being announced, and 5e being released. He speculates that Wizards may spend those 10 months talking up how great and superior 5e is and how it will fix everything that's wrong with the horrendously broken 4e... while still trying to convince people to keep buying the 4e books for those 10 months until 5e books come to replace them.
Hmmm interesting point.
I'm personally really enjoying the POL setting, but i can see why it wouldn't appeal so much to campain setting devotees.
The impression that I got initially was that the POL would serve as a generic background, itto which your world setting could be placed. "The world" in POL could be replaced with the realms, or ebberon or whatever. The gods could be replaced with FR gods. That way you could fuse the generic POL material, with your specific setting. For example the genric "underdark" could be placed in the world of FR or ebberon or whatever with little work.
However it hasn't panned out like that in practice, the underdark book is heavily tied up with Torog for example. While I'm sure it could be reworked for FR play PoL is moving away from being "a generic background for your world" (be that your own creation or a campain setting) including some details generic enough to be transfered into any world (again be it FR, Ebberon or whatever); to being it's own world setting. Sure some middle ground is left free for "user input here" stuff, but that space is getting more crowded. The less generic it is the harder work it is to rework it for CS use it is. (And I suspect this is the kind of use that Campain setting users are interested in, out the box instant access stuff).
That said 90% of teh underdark book (for example) could be picked up splatted straight into (or at least under) your FR setting. It's all there, drow cities, aboleth weirdness, huge dank dangerous dungeons. Just pick it up drop it in and use it. At most you'll have to twak a couple of details (rename the drow city to a famous FR place etc.) ignore a few details about Torog (and replace them with the origin of the UD in FR) and you're set.
The advantage of doing it this way is it can also be used in my generic POL setting, or with some work into ebberon.
It's easier to take something with no "brand" polish it up and put it into a setting, than it is to extract it from a setting to make it more generic. That is if it had come out as a FR underdark, i'd likely not have got as much use out of it in my generic camp. as you would a generic underdark in your FR camp. They can probably sell more copies of a generic underdark book, than a FR underdark book.
But i thinjk you have a point that the general release stuff should be "generic, setting free" rather than "specific, POL".
Anything about Swordmages, Drow and Genasi IS about the Forgotten Realms, because those things originate in the realms, operate in the realms and are best suited to the realms.
I have to disagree. The 4e drow PC race stats were printed first in the FRPG, but the drow itself were taken from Greyhawk as was the whole Underdark.
The swordmage class is also just the general concept of a fighter/mage, which again is nothing FR specific. So unless they deliberately add things to make it FR specific, any random swordmage article is not a FR article (e.g. an article about the bladesingers of evermeet is a FR article, an article about the eldritch knights of nerath is not, even if all it's powers/feats are usable in FR).
The Underdark originated in the FR too,
No, FR copied it from Greyhawk.
Anything about Swordmages, Drow and Genasi IS about the Forgotten Realms, because those things originate in the realms, operate in the realms and are best suited to the realms.
I have to disagree. The 4e drow PC race stats were printed first in the FRPG, but the drow itself were taken from Greyhawk as was the whole Underdark.The swordmage class is also just the general concept of a fighter/mage, which again is nothing FR specific. So unless they deliberately add things to make it FR specific, any random swordmage article is not a FR article (e.g. an article about the bladesingers of evermeet is a FR article, an article about the eldritch knights of nerath is not, even if all it's powers/feats are usable in FR).
The Underdark originated in the FR too,
No, FR copied it from Greyhawk.
I confess that although I first played D&D with 1st edition, I know almost nothing about the canonical settings before 4th edition. In the old days, we always ran in homebrewed worlds, except for one dungeon master who inflicted the endless slog of Dragonlance upon us.
Nevertheless, Greyhawk is not a 4th edition setting. This thread is not about the ultimate origins of things. Maybe there were drow-like elves in some novel in the 1960s, but that would be irrelevant to this argument. Maybe the Spell Plague is copied from a comic book I never read: it does not affect its connection to the Realms in 4th edition.
This thread is about support for the Forgotten Realms in the 4th edition. In the 4th edition, Drow, Genasi and Swordmages are introduced through the Realms. And the Dragon Magazine and Dungeon Magazine have published over 200 pages of crunch and fluff for the Forgotten realms, including stuff about drow, swordmages and genasi.
Now, this is not actually a problem. We are all free to ignore any crap that we don't want to use, and more to the point, having all those options makes it really easy to tailor your game if you decide to run a really niche setting. For example, if you decide to run a world where the martial arts were never invented, so that all combat is psionic, and the only extant self-aware race is a bunch of mutant treants... I mean, you can run that with 4e. Fine. That's a good thing.
That said, I myself am a pretty big FR fan--specifically an RAS/Elaine Cunningham/Paul Kemp fan--and so maybe it's no surprise that I'm running a campaign in the FR Northlands with a goodly contribution from Drow and Sharrans (and Bannites). As it stands, the Drow are supported well--very well. But the Sharrans and Bannites not so much. Which is an issue because Shar and Bane are not niche deities in the FR. Granted you can (and I do) adapt virtually everything from the Raven Queen's portfolio over to Shar in the FR, but still... I mean, we've got a lot of room to run here in terms of official support.
Now the good thing is that Dungeon (and Dragon too, for that matter) seems to be at somewhat loose ends. It seems clear that they don't want to publish another Adventure Path, and that's fine. As long as they use the extra space to fully support the FR. Because God knows they've got the space in the magazine right now, and would-be freelancers are practically banging down their doors to get published.