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Multiple Power Source Classes

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
mathmat2112
May 25, 2009 12:00:52 Has anybody heard anything about this? I think with something like this we could see a cool Gish. Someone who alternates Martial attacks with Arcane attacks. There would most likely have to be a single ability that you attack with instead of using, say, both STR and INT. With feats like Melee Training the ability scores have already become complete abstractions. Any ideas?
#2
therealtim
May 25, 2009 12:16:23 Swordmage?
#3
ranadiel
May 25, 2009 12:21:41 Hybrid classes?
#4
Mcnancy
May 25, 2009 12:30:05 Bard?
#5
alphasquirell
May 25, 2009 13:10:31 How many of these do people have to post before we can legitimately post an /thread? lol
#6
therealtim
May 25, 2009 13:52:03 I think the point is, most sources are kind of just fluff, and there are a lot of classes already dipping into other peoples pools. I don't think WotC will do anything official other then hybrid classes since it would probably add fuel to fires that don't need it (Ki is dead, do we even need shadow, arcane steals from everyone else, ect).
#7
Mcnancy
May 25, 2009 17:05:48 I could see some PPs, EDs or feats that might require two power sources.
#8
LordArchaon
May 25, 2009 18:15:32 I had always wanted to convert a custom 3.5 class of mine to 4e, but the question was "what power source would it be since it draws power from the NATURE spirits OF THE SHADOWFELL? Primal or Shadow??"... The good thing would be making it a dual-power source class. Or it would fall into Arcane, but in that case, I would just make it a Warlock pact, which is in my opinion the easiest way to make a "custom class".

A good question about dual-power source classes is: would they have powers of source X and powers of source Y or powers with both X AND Y sources?

Plus, would there be any mechanical advantage from this? I don't remember if some kind of monster or challenge has some way to debuff powers/characters of particular power sources. In that case, having dual power source would help. Or maybe you could have powers that work a bit like monk's full disciplines but offering you two mutually-exclusive options, one of power source X, one of power source Y. Now this would be an idea for my class, thanks for inspiring me this brain-storming! :D
#9
Mcnancy
May 25, 2009 19:40:00
NATURE spirits OF THE SHADOWFELL

Does such a thing exist? If it does I would say it's just Shadow, all things that come from Shadow are just a twisted mirroring of something else.
#10
calronmoonflower
May 25, 2009 19:46:50 Well, the monk seems to use both martial power and psionic abilities.

Does such a thing exist? If it does I would say it's just Shadow, all things that come from Shadow are just a twisted mirroring of something else.

How about twisted versions of spirits that exist in the realm?
#11
LordArchaon
May 25, 2009 20:31:12
Well, the monk seems to use both martial power and psionic abilities.

How about twisted versions of spirits that exist in the realm?

That's about it... But well, I'm still too confused myself. One option is that, Primal things but twisted by Shadow, another would be mastering the duality of feywild nature / shadow nature. In that case Primal is uncertain and powers should often have two different options. It should have been a controller based on conjuring, transforming the battlefield and playing with light and darkness. All of this while also being transformed a bit himself by these powers, and mastering rituals that help during the inter-encounter time, like the Bard, themed around making special items from shadowfell and feywild appear in the proximity. And those would have been strange magical mushrooms and plants or really strange fey or shadow creatures that may aid in even stranger ways the party...
#12
ranadiel
May 25, 2009 21:00:24
I had always wanted to convert a custom 3.5 class of mine to 4e, but the question was "what power source would it be since it draws power from the NATURE spirits OF THE SHADOWFELL? Primal or Shadow??"... The good thing would be making it a dual-power source class. Or it would fall into Arcane, but in that case, I would just make it a Warlock pact, which is in my opinion the easiest way to make a "custom class".

A good question about dual-power source classes is: would they have powers of source X and powers of source Y or powers with both X AND Y sources?

Plus, would there be any mechanical advantage from this? I don't remember if some kind of monster or challenge has some way to debuff powers/characters of particular power sources. In that case, having dual power source would help. Or maybe you could have powers that work a bit like monk's full disciplines but offering you two mutually-exclusive options, one of power source X, one of power source Y. Now this would be an idea for my class, thanks for inspiring me this brain-storming! :D

If you don't mind having an extra opinion, that seems like it would be a primal class that just happens to have a lot of abilities related to shadows.

However there generally wouldn't be too much of a mechanical advantage or disadvantage to making a dual power source class. Really the only time poower sources come into play are fonts of power(I think that is what they are called) and some epic destiny(and maybe paragon path) abilities. However as yopu can only take a single one of those, I don't think it would cause too many problems.
#13
Marandahir
May 26, 2009 1:53:00 Considering there are at least 2 PPs released thus far with multiple power sources (theres a third that uses a Divine Power Source, but is open to Arcane casters as well) - Shadow Captain and Radiant Fist - this seems like a concept specific enough to best be kept to PPs and ED. I don't doubt we'll see more of these in our future, especially with Hybrid classes on the way.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mathmat2112 May 25, 2009 12:00:52	Has anybody heard anything about this? I think with something like this we could see a cool Gish. Someone who alternates Martial attacks with Arcane attacks. There would most likely have to be a single ability that you attack with instead of using, say, both STR and INT. With feats like Melee Training the ability scores have already become complete abstractions. Any ideas?
#2 therealtim May 25, 2009 12:16:23	Swordmage?
#3 ranadiel May 25, 2009 12:21:41	Hybrid classes?
#4 Mcnancy May 25, 2009 12:30:05	Bard?
#5 alphasquirell May 25, 2009 13:10:31	How many of these do people have to post before we can legitimately post an /thread? lol
#6 therealtim May 25, 2009 13:52:03	I think the point is, most sources are kind of just fluff, and there are a lot of classes already dipping into other peoples pools. I don't think WotC will do anything official other then hybrid classes since it would probably add fuel to fires that don't need it (Ki is dead, do we even need shadow, arcane steals from everyone else, ect).
#7 Mcnancy May 25, 2009 17:05:48	I could see some PPs, EDs or feats that might require two power sources.
#8 LordArchaon May 25, 2009 18:15:32	I had always wanted to convert a custom 3.5 class of mine to 4e, but the question was "what power source would it be since it draws power from the NATURE spirits OF THE SHADOWFELL? Primal or Shadow??"... The good thing would be making it a dual-power source class. Or it would fall into Arcane, but in that case, I would just make it a Warlock pact, which is in my opinion the easiest way to make a "custom class". A good question about dual-power source classes is: would they have powers of source X and powers of source Y or powers with both X AND Y sources? Plus, would there be any mechanical advantage from this? I don't remember if some kind of monster or challenge has some way to debuff powers/characters of particular power sources. In that case, having dual power source would help. Or maybe you could have powers that work a bit like monk's full disciplines but offering you two mutually-exclusive options, one of power source X, one of power source Y. Now this would be an idea for my class, thanks for inspiring me this brain-storming! :D
#9 Mcnancy May 25, 2009 19:40:00	NATURE spirits OF THE SHADOWFELL Does such a thing exist? If it does I would say it's just Shadow, all things that come from Shadow are just a twisted mirroring of something else.
#10 calronmoonflower May 25, 2009 19:46:50	Well, the monk seems to use both martial power and psionic abilities. Does such a thing exist? If it does I would say it's just Shadow, all things that come from Shadow are just a twisted mirroring of something else. How about twisted versions of spirits that exist in the realm?
#11 LordArchaon May 25, 2009 20:31:12	Well, the monk seems to use both martial power and psionic abilities. How about twisted versions of spirits that exist in the realm? That's about it... But well, I'm still too confused myself. One option is that, Primal things but twisted by Shadow, another would be mastering the duality of feywild nature / shadow nature. In that case Primal is uncertain and powers should often have two different options. It should have been a controller based on conjuring, transforming the battlefield and playing with light and darkness. All of this while also being transformed a bit himself by these powers, and mastering rituals that help during the inter-encounter time, like the Bard, themed around making special items from shadowfell and feywild appear in the proximity. And those would have been strange magical mushrooms and plants or really strange fey or shadow creatures that may aid in even stranger ways the party...
#12 ranadiel May 25, 2009 21:00:24	I had always wanted to convert a custom 3.5 class of mine to 4e, but the question was "what power source would it be since it draws power from the NATURE spirits OF THE SHADOWFELL? Primal or Shadow??"... The good thing would be making it a dual-power source class. Or it would fall into Arcane, but in that case, I would just make it a Warlock pact, which is in my opinion the easiest way to make a "custom class". A good question about dual-power source classes is: would they have powers of source X and powers of source Y or powers with both X AND Y sources? Plus, would there be any mechanical advantage from this? I don't remember if some kind of monster or challenge has some way to debuff powers/characters of particular power sources. In that case, having dual power source would help. Or maybe you could have powers that work a bit like monk's full disciplines but offering you two mutually-exclusive options, one of power source X, one of power source Y. Now this would be an idea for my class, thanks for inspiring me this brain-storming! :D If you don't mind having an extra opinion, that seems like it would be a primal class that just happens to have a lot of abilities related to shadows. However there generally wouldn't be too much of a mechanical advantage or disadvantage to making a dual power source class. Really the only time poower sources come into play are fonts of power(I think that is what they are called) and some epic destiny(and maybe paragon path) abilities. However as yopu can only take a single one of those, I don't think it would cause too many problems.
#13 Marandahir May 26, 2009 1:53:00	Considering there are at least 2 PPs released thus far with multiple power sources (theres a third that uses a Divine Power Source, but is open to Arcane casters as well) - Shadow Captain and Radiant Fist - this seems like a concept specific enough to best be kept to PPs and ED. I don't doubt we'll see more of these in our future, especially with Hybrid classes on the way.