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| #1bugpogJan 12, 2011 20:28:43 | Here's my view of their recent decisions: 1) Target customer: In the past, I'm not sure if they defined their target customer. I guess it was defined as anyone who wants to buy our books! Today, Wotc seems to be targetting a younger audience. Why? my guess is The students work hard." class="ver">that kids hangs out in groups, follow trends and are easier to please. Let's take the example of Harry Potter, would this series would have the same success if ithave, e.g.: I would have left ..." class="ver">would of targeted an older audience ? 2) Increase share of the market - so-called, pop-up, etc." class="ver">entry level products In the past, this was done simply by releasing new campaing settings, great products and supporting a novel line. The rest was done with word to mouth. Most player's brought many books, since without internet and cheap and efficient printers, sharing products between There were three reasons for his departure, but The boy's house is on fire." class="ver">player's was difficult. Today, bookstore are closing and Ebooks are invading the market, even more so in the past year with Ipad's release. In order to reach new player's, they invested a lot of ressources on developping so-called, pop-up, etc." class="ver">entry level-products ( Dnd I like fast cars (unless you are indicating possession, e.g.: the car's hood has been damaged)." class="ver">Encounter's, Castle Ravenloft, Gamma World, the red box, the upcomming video game, upcomming movie, one, two, etc." class="ver">2 comic book series, etc.) and invaded facebook and twitter. Once they get a taste of DnD, the next step is becoming a DnD subscriber and/or purchase essentials books. When The men are, the girls think that ... (if you are forming a possessive structure, add an apostrophe, e.g.: The company's rules are not fair)." class="ver">the new customer goes to the bookstore, they don't want him to be overwhelm by 20 different player oriented products. So, reducing the number of books make sense in this contex. 3) Increase revenue : Sell more profitable products to I like fast cars (unless you are indicating possession, e.g.: the car's hood has been damaged)." class="ver">player's. This is relatively new to the business model, so they are making some experimentation. In the last few years, they released the Power card decks and Heroes miniature lines. Today, we have products like Fortune cards, Gamma World booster packs, Ravenloft upcoming expansions, etc. So, what do you think ? Note to I like fast cars (unless you are indicating possession, e.g.: the car's hood has been damaged)." class="ver">reader's: I'm not a business executive or a market specialist and english is my second language. The account was activated by phone." class="ver">I'm just interest in reading your, e.g.: That's your problem (Only use you're if you mean you are)." class="ver">you're opinion on the new business model in order to better understand Wotc's recent decisions. |
| #2tsukinousagiJan 13, 2011 7:26:00 | Your conclusions are logical, likely just not accurate. I see it like this. Make an edition sell it as fast as possible, move on to next edition as soon as the current one reaches saturation point. Ditch hardcovers as they don't produce as much return on price as softcover does. I don't think they are targeting me or the young. I think the simplified Essentials was just a gimic to make a lot of people think it was new enough to merit a dose of sales before declaring 4th a done deal. I've met as many adults that were simple minded and unable to understand even the most basic of games, as I have young people that simply lacked decent reading skills and attention spans. I game with lots of people all of them over 25. Lots of them over 35. The reality of ebooks is not going to go away regardless of WotC's efforts. I am a cheap bugger at heart, and yet regardless of the fact I was not really required to buy a single book at all, I still bought something like an omg several hundreds of bucks in 4th edition books. I have 300 in just adventure modules. But the truth is, an edition is only fun for WotC apparently for about 5 years, then they start getting the itch to do it all over again. Thus, whether you like an edition or not, you have 5 years to enjoy it before it gets the bums rush out the door. Because then they want you to obediently line up for their next product. Hey they have wages to pay eh, and bills to be met. They can't have you buying a set of books and then not needing anything else from them. Get real ![]() |
| #3HoundstoothJan 14, 2011 11:41:06 | if its targeted at young people, why do I keep seeing retro crap everywhere. I get that a lot of players enjoyed the original red box, but when I gave it to my 10 year old cousin for christmas that old crappy looking art turned him off immediately to the point where he asked how old I was (Im 25). I didn't play much before 4e and there is nothing I hate more then things that have no value but to remind older players about where D&D came from... So I disagree that they are focused on young kids. I think the focus is 30 somethings. |
| #4DM_CraigJan 14, 2011 21:15:57 | To be honest, I don't think they know who their target audience is... it certainly can't be the people who actually play D&D and have played for years. If it was, they'd take more time to actually listen to what their players are asking for. For instance: the D&D miniatures were intended to be used in the separate Miniatures game which, let's face it, tanked. In my experience, most people who buy the miniatures are using them for regular D&D campaigns. Many of us have suggested the idea of releasing miniatures in bulk packs instead of - or in addition to - continuing the random 'booster pack' formula. I'd rather know I'm buying a pack of 10 goblins than a box that may or may not contain the miniature I want and will probably have something lame like a 'fallen villager' in it. It makes sense, right? What do they do instead? Decide to discontinue making miniatures. Let's face it folks, D&D is WoTC is Hasbro, and Hasbro cares about making money. Yes, with D&D becoming more commercialized, there's been an influx of new products and more variation, but it also means that business comes first, and in the end, Hasbro cares about the buck more than us. |
| #5MedrievJan 18, 2011 16:18:14 | What I don't understand, as a 30-something who may or may not be the target customer, is why they ditched the original 4E business model so quickly. Originally, they planned to release a PHB, a MM and a DMG every year along with a new campaign setting comprising 3 books (setting book, player's guide and adventure). I liked that model and whilst I was hoping Greyhawk might have been in the running at some point, I would likely have bought every book under that model, regardless of that year's setting (with a couple of possible exceptions - Dragonlance, Ravenloft maybe). Unfortunately, they ditched that model after two years!! Did they really have enough sales data to decide that this model wasn't working or was this simply a random brainstorming session that ended with "Let's shake things up a bit!" I liked the idea of knowing what I was likely to see each year, at least in terms of book titles. The content, of course, would be a nice surprise but at least I knew I would be getting new classes, new power sources, new monsters, a new DMG and a new setting every year. I have no idea what the sales data showed but for me, Wizards would be getting more of my respect and more of my money if they had stuck to the plan for a bit longer. |
| #6lokiareJan 18, 2011 16:59:07 | What I don't understand, as a 30-something who may or may not be the target customer, is why they ditched the original 4E business model so quickly. They were pumping out a book a month almost. Their sales data probably told them sales were dropping off, as people were saving up to the the books they missed... |
| #7atimsonJan 18, 2011 17:47:57 | Unfortunately, they ditched that model after two years!! Did they really have enough sales data to decide that this model wasn't working or was this simply a random brainstorming session that ended with "Let's shake things up a bit!" To be fair, this year hewed to the model pretty closely too. There was no DMG3, and the DM/player split of the campaign setting books were tweaked, but... close enough in my book. ![]() |
| #8jim11735Jan 19, 2011 9:31:32 | OP, I think Harry Potter was successful because older audiences liked it as much as it's targeted audience. If the older audiences didn't love it too, there wouldn't be an amusement park. D&D's target audience has been older dudes, which I think should continue to be it's target audience as long as younger audiences like it too. We're in out 20s, 30s and 40s and our group's kids want to play D&D because we like playing D&D. D&D has a cult appeal, and in nerdom that is far more powerful than banner ads or shiny boxes. As far as market share, I feel they should be targeting MMOs. Yeah it's cool working as a team with friends or strangers online, but wouldn't it be cooler if you could all get together in person and eat pizza while playing... that's what D&D players have been doing all along. What D&D is, is really just a brand name. D&D comics, D&D online games, D&D movies, D&D bed sheets, etc. Those all get people thinking about playing D&D. I feel the profit is not in the books. We're too far past that. The more books you pump out the more piracy you get, some people just won't pay for content but a lot of people don't want to pay hundreds of dollars for content and once you put on the eye patch it's a slippery slope. I want to support my hobby, but I don't want to buy books that have errata before I get them home. I think the greed is transparent and while most of us are adult enough to realize that there wouldn't be any new content if someone wasn't trying to make money off it, I think many gamers are turned off by the speed of the greed. I think Hasbro should produce a standard D&D game that's good and comes in a couple relatively expensive hard cover books. Let that game sit for 10 years and build around it. Sell comics, sell board games, make a decent movie or two, where are the D&D toys? The subscription online site probably makes a ton more money that Heroes of Shadow will. Instead of PDFs - and don't get me wrong I'd love to have all my books on a kindle - that are easily pirated, have subscribers pay to unlock book content online. So when a campaign book comes out, it's a one time additional charge to access it's content in the CB, MB, DungeonB. Optional expense if you like Eberron stuff, but not required. Like I said I don't think the profit from D&D is going to come from the game, I think profit can come if the D&D game is good and people are playing it. Let Blizzard pay to put banner ads on D&D's site. I'd pay a subscription fee to read unofficial fan content - isn't that what the magazines were? Hasbro should know that if they released a shtty new edition of Mr. Potato Head, it would only hurt the Mr. Potato Head brand. Mr. Potato Head Essentials, c'mon? |
| #9jim11735Jan 19, 2011 9:41:58 | I have no idea what the sales data showed but for me, Wizards would be getting more of my respect and more of my money if they had stuck to the plan for a bit longer. I thought the original plan was a bit much, but yeah, I would have gobbled up book after book of it. I was looking forward to a Shadow source PHB. Maybe they should have spread it out a little more, I never figured I would actually buy a PHB 5. Essentials was like an earthquake shift in whatever plan they had and commenting on that shift rather than what Essentials products bring to the game, when I realized the edition and sub edition changes were happening faster my reaction was to put the brakes on my D&D spending. Did Essentials extend the life of the 4e/E books I bought or did it signal their end. Adding a .5 to 3rd edition seemed kinda funny at first but then you realized the edition's life cycle was half over, and in reality was much further along than .5 indicated. |
| #10amulanJan 19, 2011 10:22:22 | I think we are seeing the result of targeting too much of their resources at marketing models that force you to buy products you don't want. The speed-greed is an unsustainable model. The original D&D trademark probably only represented goods, but in this digital age it now should so clearly be representing D&D services (forums, community services, outlet for user-created applications from which they receive profits -- ala Apple Apps), yet they are not taking advantage of the brand they own. In fact, all that good will is going down the toilet as more and more fans get worried about support for their favorite game. I don't mind when a business makes money, but if I feel someone or some entity is doing me wrong, it is naturally going to impact my desire to give them money and question their product integrity. The current internet age needs an internet company to take over this brand. Let them license the spin-off toys to Hasbro and the spin-off publishing to WotC. The collective eye balls of D&D fandom should pay for themselves and only the Googles of this world know how to monetize that. |
| #11fugacityfixyoursiteJan 19, 2011 11:20:44 | @Jim11735 I was just talking to some friends last night about this. I agree that Wizards should try to make their money off of D&D licensing and less so via roleplayers, because they have shown time and again that they just don't fork out the same amount of cash as wargamers and collectible card gamers. How many hours of entertainment have been generated off of just one or two books and some imagination; and compare that to entire armies of minis or decks of cards that go obsolete every few months? |
| #12sfdragonJan 19, 2011 14:32:40 | WOTC is owned by Hasbro, and Hasbro makes family oriented toys and games. thus if a 5 6 7 yr old cant play , it must be fixed so that one can. thus the WoW look of dnd 4e... to me, it's BS.... but mind you, its still an oppinion and best left at it even mine. after all, they have to make a profit....... and ... |
| #13NovacatJan 19, 2011 14:38:50 | WOTC is owned by Hasbro, and Hasbro makes family oriented toys and games. You're argument is ridiculous, with blatant counterexamples available to anyone who cares to look. However, your last point, that they must make a profit, is totally valid, but it's not sufficient for making an on-topic conclusion. |
| #14lokiareJan 19, 2011 19:05:16 | WOTC is owned by Hasbro, and Hasbro makes family oriented toys and games. Except that your calling them out on their OPINION... |
| #15sfdragonJan 19, 2011 19:14:28 | WOTC is owned by Hasbro, and Hasbro makes family oriented toys and games. and with the dnd borad cames coming out, it may not be very far from truth regardless of how rediculous it may be that said, here is a fact for you. I won't buy any dnd boardgames (ala monopoly style boards) |
| #16HaldrikJan 21, 2011 18:52:48 | OP, I think Harry Potter was successful because older audiences liked it as much as it's targeted audience. If the older audiences didn't love it too, there wouldn't be an amusement park. D&D's target audience has been older dudes, which I think should continue to be it's target audience as long as younger audiences like it too. We're in ou[r] 20s, 30s and 40s and our group's kids want to play D&D because we like playing D&D. D&D has a cult appeal, and in nerdom that is far more powerful than banner ads or shiny boxes. Yeah, D&D marketers should be targeting the MMO sector, but also the Harry Potter sector. |