My Vision for 5th Edition - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

My Vision for 5th Edition

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Goken100
Apr 25, 2010 10:38:14 When 4E first came out we were promised there wouldn't be a 4.5, and I think that we can be fairly confident in that now. Unlike when 3E was new, 4E does not appear to have any major balance issues that could only be resolved in a half number. What they said was that the plan was always to have about an 8-year cycle, so more than likely WOTC is currently still planning that way. In fact, its almost time for them to start dreaming up the next edition already, as we're getting closer to the half-way mark.

IMHO, 4E is a slick, balanced, and easy to learn game. It is far superior to any combat-based RPG that I've ever played, and even manages to retain a lot of the traditions from older traditions. They've created a game that can be picked up by a new generation willing and interested in table-top paper RPGs. They're trying to rectify the poor marketing to that demographic with the essentials line (which I'm skeptical about, but good luck with that). In short, I don't see that there's much to be gained with a tradition 5th Edition revision.

My suggestion to WOTC is to take advantage of the brand name power of D&D and build the world's first online DM-run RPG. Imagine an MMO, but instead of canned repeatable and static adventures, players and a DM team up for a game and play out the game in their own collective story-telling role playing adventure. The technology is well within reason, and nobody has done it.

The game should be released for AT LEAST one of the major video game consoles, preferably all of them. iPad, iTouch, and iPhone support would be a big plus. PC support is a must, with Mac a big plus. Thus a group could get together in one place, and all they need is a TV, a video game console, and a laptop for the DM. Alternatively, the group can each have their own machine and meet up together, online, or both. Now THAT would be tapping into a new market.

The reason this should be the approach from the ground up for 5E is that the crunchy underpinnings of a system change drastically if you no longer care about allowing things to be easy to calculate in your head. Simple example: dice rolls. You'll no longer need to have any dice rolls at all. The d20 could be replaced with 3d6, for example, if the designers thought the game would benefit. On a table-top game, having to add three dice together for every roll is a problem, but a video game has no such concerns.

To sum up, I'm not suggesting an MMO. I'm suggesting a product that allows a DM to quickly and easily build a world and adventures or anything he or she might dream, and allows that DM to then take a group of players there with the aid of all the best technology video games have to offer.

That's my 2 cents!
Cheers!
#2
The_Jester
Apr 25, 2010 19:03:22
Unlike when 3E was new, 4E does not appear to have any major balance issues that could only be resolved in a half number.

Yes and no. 4e is more balanced but there are still some problem areas where the game hits a hurdle.

What they said was that the plan was always to have about an 8-year cycle, so more than likely WOTC is currently still planning that way. In fact, its almost time for them to start dreaming up the next edition already, as we're getting closer to the half-way mark.

I'm curious where you got the 8-year number from. That's a long time and about as long as all of 3e. D&D Essentials might be seen as filling the same role as 3.5 (mid-edition sales boost) the 8-year mark is a long ways away. 4e has really only been playable for less than two full years (2008-09, 2009-10).
I've always guessed at a 5-year lifespan for 4e, but that's just been a guess based on number of power sources.

My suggestion to WOTC is to take advantage of the brand name power of D&D and build the world's first online DM-run RPG. Imagine an MMO, but instead of canned repeatable and static adventures, players and a DM team up for a game and play out the game in their own collective story-telling role playing adventure. The technology is well within reason, and nobody has done it.

Yeah... they tried to do that for 4e. The Virtual Table. The thing advertised in the back of the core books. The thing they absolutely failed to deliver and is now two years late and presumed dead.
I hope they learned their lesson and stay away from the digital for 5e.

The game should be released for AT LEAST one of the major video game consoles, preferably all of them. iPad, iTouch, and iPhone support would be a big plus. PC support is a must, with Mac a big plus. Thus a group could get together in one place, and all they need is a TV, a video game console, and a laptop for the DM. Alternatively, the group can each have their own machine and meet up together, online, or both. Now THAT would be tapping into a new market.

The absence of Mac and smart-phone support is a huge omission. Going PC-centric and focusing on laptops just makes the company seem outdated and behind the curve. But it just takes too long to develop digital tools to rely on them for a game system. The iPhone didn't come out until summer of 2007, after work had already begun on DDI, so it was likely too late to focus on small mobile devices. In 4-5 years small tablets will likely dominate gaming and be omnipresent at major cons, or something else could change the tide. Even if WotC focused all their efforts on tablet gaming now, by the time they finished something else would be rising and they'd have to start again.

I foresee the opposite of DDI for 5e, and a renewed emphasise on players around a table and books. Digital components are an easily pirated pit you have to continually throw money into to keep maintained and bug free with regular updates, and WotC has not proven themselves capable of doing so and DDI has been a regular and lengthy embarrassment.
Given the rampant theft and piracy, I can see them pushing harder for accessories and physical components that cannot be easily replicated or replaced by the digital.
#3
Goken100
Apr 25, 2010 20:29:14 The DDI idea was a good one, and the promised products weren't delievered, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a video game. The books-with-tools model will become increasingly outdated, but that doesn't mean that collaborative gaming will die out. It just needs someone with vision to take it into the digital age.

Here's what I envision the video game would have:
Encounter support, with full visuals, stats for charactes and monsters, etc. Encounter support would include non-combat encounters, with support for skill attempts and role playing.

High quality voice chat, with video chat optional.

Largish maps that could optionally be used. Characters would not run around persistant giant maps like in MMO's, but largish maps are useful for towns and dungeons, if the DM likes that sort of thing.

Persistant world building might be an optional feature, allowing custom worlds to be built and populated by DMs in abstract as well as in a more MMO sort of fashion.

Some DMs and adventurers might want to adventure in the same persistant world, a-la RPGA. In these cases, DMs would have more limited control than in their own world.

Anyway, that's the idea. While the game would be completely contained in a video game, it would entirely and completely be D&D. My suggestion is that 4E continue to be supported. It is a fantastic table-top RPG, and was built with that in mind. Many of the existing players would not want to start playing through consoles and computers, using TV screens and controllers. But the existing player base probably doesn't even exceed the number of people who bought Dragon Age Origins. I say we get those players and show them what a real RPG is like!
#4
mellored
Apr 26, 2010 8:28:46 Neverwinter Nights did that stuff for 3.5, except voice chat, but where 3rd party programs. A 4e version would work out just fine.

Also, maptools provides a pretty solid base. Easy to play online with it, not strictly 4e though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Goken100 Apr 25, 2010 10:38:14	When 4E first came out we were promised there wouldn't be a 4.5, and I think that we can be fairly confident in that now. Unlike when 3E was new, 4E does not appear to have any major balance issues that could only be resolved in a half number. What they said was that the plan was always to have about an 8-year cycle, so more than likely WOTC is currently still planning that way. In fact, its almost time for them to start dreaming up the next edition already, as we're getting closer to the half-way mark. IMHO, 4E is a slick, balanced, and easy to learn game. It is far superior to any combat-based RPG that I've ever played, and even manages to retain a lot of the traditions from older traditions. They've created a game that can be picked up by a new generation willing and interested in table-top paper RPGs. They're trying to rectify the poor marketing to that demographic with the essentials line (which I'm skeptical about, but good luck with that). In short, I don't see that there's much to be gained with a tradition 5th Edition revision. My suggestion to WOTC is to take advantage of the brand name power of D&D and build the world's first online DM-run RPG. Imagine an MMO, but instead of canned repeatable and static adventures, players and a DM team up for a game and play out the game in their own collective story-telling role playing adventure. The technology is well within reason, and nobody has done it. The game should be released for AT LEAST one of the major video game consoles, preferably all of them. iPad, iTouch, and iPhone support would be a big plus. PC support is a must, with Mac a big plus. Thus a group could get together in one place, and all they need is a TV, a video game console, and a laptop for the DM. Alternatively, the group can each have their own machine and meet up together, online, or both. Now THAT would be tapping into a new market. The reason this should be the approach from the ground up for 5E is that the crunchy underpinnings of a system change drastically if you no longer care about allowing things to be easy to calculate in your head. Simple example: dice rolls. You'll no longer need to have any dice rolls at all. The d20 could be replaced with 3d6, for example, if the designers thought the game would benefit. On a table-top game, having to add three dice together for every roll is a problem, but a video game has no such concerns. To sum up, I'm not suggesting an MMO. I'm suggesting a product that allows a DM to quickly and easily build a world and adventures or anything he or she might dream, and allows that DM to then take a group of players there with the aid of all the best technology video games have to offer. That's my 2 cents! Cheers!
#2 The_Jester Apr 25, 2010 19:03:22	Unlike when 3E was new, 4E does not appear to have any major balance issues that could only be resolved in a half number. Yes and no. 4e is more balanced but there are still some problem areas where the game hits a hurdle. What they said was that the plan was always to have about an 8-year cycle, so more than likely WOTC is currently still planning that way. In fact, its almost time for them to start dreaming up the next edition already, as we're getting closer to the half-way mark. I'm curious where you got the 8-year number from. That's a long time and about as long as all of 3e. D&D Essentials might be seen as filling the same role as 3.5 (mid-edition sales boost) the 8-year mark is a long ways away. 4e has really only been playable for less than two full years (2008-09, 2009-10). I've always guessed at a 5-year lifespan for 4e, but that's just been a guess based on number of power sources. My suggestion to WOTC is to take advantage of the brand name power of D&D and build the world's first online DM-run RPG. Imagine an MMO, but instead of canned repeatable and static adventures, players and a DM team up for a game and play out the game in their own collective story-telling role playing adventure. The technology is well within reason, and nobody has done it. Yeah... they tried to do that for 4e. The Virtual Table. The thing advertised in the back of the core books. The thing they absolutely failed to deliver and is now two years late and presumed dead. I hope they learned their lesson and stay away from the digital for 5e. The game should be released for AT LEAST one of the major video game consoles, preferably all of them. iPad, iTouch, and iPhone support would be a big plus. PC support is a must, with Mac a big plus. Thus a group could get together in one place, and all they need is a TV, a video game console, and a laptop for the DM. Alternatively, the group can each have their own machine and meet up together, online, or both. Now THAT would be tapping into a new market. The absence of Mac and smart-phone support is a huge omission. Going PC-centric and focusing on laptops just makes the company seem outdated and behind the curve. But it just takes too long to develop digital tools to rely on them for a game system. The iPhone didn't come out until summer of 2007, after work had already begun on DDI, so it was likely too late to focus on small mobile devices. In 4-5 years small tablets will likely dominate gaming and be omnipresent at major cons, or something else could change the tide. Even if WotC focused all their efforts on tablet gaming now, by the time they finished something else would be rising and they'd have to start again. I foresee the opposite of DDI for 5e, and a renewed emphasise on players around a table and books. Digital components are an easily pirated pit you have to continually throw money into to keep maintained and bug free with regular updates, and WotC has not proven themselves capable of doing so and DDI has been a regular and lengthy embarrassment. Given the rampant theft and piracy, I can see them pushing harder for accessories and physical components that cannot be easily replicated or replaced by the digital.
#3 Goken100 Apr 25, 2010 20:29:14	The DDI idea was a good one, and the promised products weren't delievered, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a video game. The books-with-tools model will become increasingly outdated, but that doesn't mean that collaborative gaming will die out. It just needs someone with vision to take it into the digital age. Here's what I envision the video game would have: Encounter support, with full visuals, stats for charactes and monsters, etc. Encounter support would include non-combat encounters, with support for skill attempts and role playing. High quality voice chat, with video chat optional. Largish maps that could optionally be used. Characters would not run around persistant giant maps like in MMO's, but largish maps are useful for towns and dungeons, if the DM likes that sort of thing. Persistant world building might be an optional feature, allowing custom worlds to be built and populated by DMs in abstract as well as in a more MMO sort of fashion. Some DMs and adventurers might want to adventure in the same persistant world, a-la RPGA. In these cases, DMs would have more limited control than in their own world. Anyway, that's the idea. While the game would be completely contained in a video game, it would entirely and completely be D&D. My suggestion is that 4E continue to be supported. It is a fantastic table-top RPG, and was built with that in mind. Many of the existing players would not want to start playing through consoles and computers, using TV screens and controllers. But the existing player base probably doesn't even exceed the number of people who bought Dragon Age Origins. I say we get those players and show them what a real RPG is like!
#4 mellored Apr 26, 2010 8:28:46	Neverwinter Nights did that stuff for 3.5, except voice chat, but where 3rd party programs. A 4e version would work out just fine. Also, maptools provides a pretty solid base. Easy to play online with it, not strictly 4e though.