I answered to the online survey about the DMG2,
but I think the questions were not very interesting or useful:
most of the survey goes about our perceptions of the DMG1, and not about what vey new do we need in the next manual,
so I thinked to create whis topic for discuss what we need that could not explained only in the few 255 letters/characters of the last "suggestments" box of the survey.
So, first I need rules upgradated to 4th to fix holes of this Edition:
- rule about sleeping in armor (useful for ambusched at night - not all the fighter could stuck into a summoned heavy armor used as nightwear);
- rule about tie ropes/imprisonment, for capturing enemies and much more useful to menage how not let Pgs flee with teleport (a Eladrin needs only the smallerst hole in the wall/door to escape with the teleport);
- feat like the Alchemist one that goes around the old skills Craft, Profession, Entertainment (I think the Background suggestments in the PHB2 is too few: a feat for Artists, one for Mariners, one for Crafters, one for Siege Engineers, one for flat bonuses for other occupations is enough);
- fix the non lethal damage rule: I dislike non-lethal fireballs, ok is a fluff-thing fixable with a house rule, but if many have my impressions, only all the malee and ranged basic attacks schould be used for non-lethal damage;
- resistance of constructions and materials;
- more about grapple/smash objects/...;
- other such rules about "adventurer's live".
A chapter about military:
battles, naval battles, sieges, siege weapons, recruitment, sample armies, sample fortifications, naval and aerial units, mercenaries.
A chapter about organised society:
monster's society, laws, jobs, settlements for different regions/geography, civilians (sample human/halfling/elf/dwarf civilian -certalny most of them minions: could be useful) and civilian's animals (sample dog, cow...), infos about different societyes (human, dwarf, elf, tiefling, dragonborn...).
A chapter about architecture:
materials, building, types of settlements (farm hamlets, mining villages, coastal and fluvial harbours, strategical montuains/rivers/bridges, artisan industry and production, cattle), maps of sample buildings (for every playing race the map of a typical house, of a typical palace/building of autorithy, of a working place - human farm, dwarf mine...), materials of constructions in different goegrafical locations, architecture of dungeons;
A chapter about wilderness:
animals, plants, geografy, seasons, rain/snow and such thing, set a camp in the wilderness, survive in the wilderness, travel in the wilderness, natural elements, sample maps of special wild places (offspring in a cave in the montains, plagueland in a valley, a small island, oasi in the desert, frozen plains with ice and snow, delta of a river, volcano);
More traps and obstacles for every level.
Out of combat options, suggestments and rules about skills/checks (like a goliath's bonus to Athletics only for clim and jump, such bonuses for all the other skills for many situations).
Oviously, some tolls are not necessary (sample civilians, bonuses for only specific use of a skill), but I think are all useful tolls for DMs who don't have always time for details: could be great for improvising, like mad PGs attacking civilians, before statteds gurads arrive, parametres for fleeing crowd and defenses should be the job.
So? Think someone I wondering right or not?
...hi, guys!
I answered to the online survey about the DMG2,
but I think the questions were not very interesting or useful:
most of the survey goes about our perceptions of the DMG1, and not about what vey new do we need in the next manual,
so I thinked to create whis topic for discuss what we need that could not explained only in the few 255 letters/characters of the last "suggestments" box of the survey.
So, first I need rules upgradated to 4th to fix holes of this Edition:
- rule about sleeping in armor (useful for ambusched at night - not all the fighter could stuck into a summoned heavy armor used as nightwear);
This is purposeful, more for adventurers than for the general populous. In 4E you don't generally 'take away' a PC's gear, even if for just a few minutes. It makes them less effective, and that's not as fun for many people.
If you want to add a house rule like this, go ahead. Most people I would surmise, do not want this.
- rule about tie ropes/imprisonment, for capturing enemies and much more useful to menage how not let Pgs flee with teleport (a Eladrin needs only the smallerst hole in the wall/door to escape with the teleport);
There are escape rules from bindings already, rules for tying someone up are not really necessary. If it matters just make it a Dex check or something for example, using page 42 in the DMG1 as a guide. For Eladrin, well they should be able to escape. At some point (adventurer's vault 2?) there will probably be a lowish level wondrous item that is a rope binding that can't be teleported out of. Heck, go ahead and make one yourself.
- feat like the Alchemist one that goes around the old skills Craft, Profession, Entertainment (I think the Background suggestments in the PHB2 is too few: a feat for Artists, one for Mariners, one for Crafters, one for Siege Engineers, one for flat bonuses for other occupations is enough);
Totally not necessary - I don't need or want rules for those. If a blacksmith can reasonably do something and that is the background that a player wants, they can do it. Make horseshoes? sure. go ahead. You're a Bard, or you just like to play the Lute and you want to play a song, sure!
- fix the non lethal damage rule: I dislike non-lethal fireballs, ok is a fluff-thing fixable with a house rule, but if many have my impressions, only all the malee and ranged basic attacks schould be used for non-lethal damage;
This doesn't need fixing. I'd say 95% of people playing 4E would agree. If you want to implement your house rule, go ahead. I might even suggest using something like -1 attack rolls to do non-lethal.
- resistance of constructions and materials;
- more about grapple/smash objects/...;
More on these (guidelines more than rules though) would be nice.
- other such rules about "adventurer's live".
A chapter about military:
battles, naval battles, sieges, siege weapons, recruitment, sample armies, sample fortifications, naval and aerial units, mercenaries.
A chapter about organised society:
monster's society, laws, jobs, settlements for different regions/geography, civilians (sample human/halfling/elf/dwarf civilian -certalny most of them minions: could be useful) and civilian's animals (sample dog, cow...), infos about different societyes (human, dwarf, elf, tiefling, dragonborn...).
A chapter about architecture:
materials, building, types of settlements (farm hamlets, mining villages, coastal and fluvial harbours, strategical montuains/rivers/bridges, artisan industry and production, cattle), maps of sample buildings (for every playing race the map of a typical house, of a typical palace/building of autorithy, of a working place - human farm, dwarf mine...), materials of constructions in different goegrafical locations, architecture of dungeons;
A chapter about wilderness:
animals, plants, geografy, seasons, rain/snow and such thing, set a camp in the wilderness, survive in the wilderness, travel in the wilderness, natural elements, sample maps of special wild places (offspring in a cave in the montains, plagueland in a valley, a small island, oasi in the desert, frozen plains with ice and snow, delta of a river, volcano);
I think we'll probably get some of this, more on terrain ect. but a lot of what you are asking does depend a lot on setting, so I think they will likely stay mostly clear.
More traps and obstacles for every level.
Definitely. This chapter will likely be twice or three times the size of the original I bet :D
Out of combat options, suggestments and rules about skills/checks (like a goliath's bonus to Athletics only for clim and jump, such bonuses for all the other skills for many situations).
Oviously, some tolls are not necessary (sample civilians, bonuses for only specific use of a skill), but I think are all useful tolls for DMs who don't have always time for details: could be great for improvising, like mad PGs attacking civilians, before statteds gurads arrive, parametres for fleeing crowd and defenses should be the job.
So? Think someone I wondering right or not?
Some of these last things will show up in the form of example skill challenges I bet.
Other things we might see - using attacks in Skill challenges and different types of skill challenges. More monster templates, Minion design perimeters.
It should be an awesome book actually.
As for my own, I would REALLy like mechanical guidelines for creating custom races, classes, powers, and the like.... instead of just guessing! I don't remember where, but I read one of the designers write that there was a mechanical formula to creating a balanced power... and if that is the case, I wanna know!
... Minion design perimeters.
...this one, yep
I don't remember where, but I read one of the designers write that there was a mechanical formula to creating a balanced power... and if that is the case, I wanna know!
Seconded.
As for my own, I would REALLy like mechanical guidelines for creating custom races, classes, powers, and the like.... instead of just guessing! I don't remember where, but I read one of the designers write that there was a mechanical formula to creating a balanced power... and if that is the case, I wanna know!
Thirded.
Also, they have done plenty explaining world-building and such, so it be nice to see them delve more into the narrative aspect of gaming. I am good at my narrative games, but I know I can always learn more.
Drag-and-Drop ideas, mechanics or plot-hook ideas that aren't tied to any specific fluff that can be drag-and-dropped into your game for ease of adventure building.
More neat ways of doing Skill Challenges, new ways of handling Powers in any scenario, new ways of handling Skills in any scenario, all that be good. More stuff to generate idea building for adventures.
Tables and other data to give more help running random dungeons.
Puzzles, riddles, traps.
Sample scenarios.
An organized section of all tables.
More templates.
I agree on the mechanic revelation, but I doubt they'll share that.
I don't have a problem with the first post's content.
An organized section of all existing tables.
As for my own, I would REALLy like mechanical guidelines for creating custom races, classes, powers, and the like.... instead of just guessing! I don't remember where, but I read one of the designers write that there was a mechanical formula to creating a balanced power... and if that is the case, I wanna know!
Fourthed. Since I create numerous races for my setting that can't be covered by the core races, I would really like this. This would allow me to work out my Shadow Power Source Dreamweaver class that I REALLY want to make too.
Oh, as to AlioTheFool's request, that's the DM's Screen. Or rather, DM's Screen 2!!!! (because they need to sell more, and that's the sort of thing the DM's Screen was...)
Fourthed. Since I create numerous races for my setting that can't be covered by the core races, I would really like this. This would allow me to work out my Shadow Power Source Dreamweaver class that I REALLY want to make too.
Oh, as to AlioTheFool's request, that's the DM's Screen. Or rather, DM's Screen 2!!!! (because they need to sell more, and that's the sort of thing the DM's Screen was...)
Yeah, I have the DM Screen, but it's not as good as I'd like. I like tables. Lots of tables. I want treasure tables. Monster tables. Trap tables. Tables that point back to other tables!!!!
Seriously though, I'd like a section that I could flip to and see any table currently out at-a-glance. It may be overly ambitious, but this is a wishlist thread, right? ;)
I agree with superdeadsmurf about the assessments of the OP's wants.
As for my own, I would REALLy like mechanical guidelines for creating custom races, classes, powers, and the like.... instead of just guessing! I don't remember where, but I read one of the designers write that there was a mechanical formula to creating a balanced power... and if that is the case, I wanna know!
This. Anyone other than me remember the rules for building races and classes that were in the second edition DMG? That level of crunch. Add to what Wizardmon listed, I want rules for building feats, rituals, alchemy, magic items, power sources, traps, poisons, diseases, hazards, templates, etc.; as well as when they introduce a new game element, have it be accompanied by the tools to build my own. I want all of the tools to truly build my own campaign world.
Open the toy box up and let us play, too.
More traps, hazards and terrain features
More templates
Clear and detailed complex combat examples
1001 Campaign/ adventure seeds
Another location with NPCs
Detailed history of PoL setting
More diseases, poisons and afflictions
More skill challenge examples and options
More treasure parcel variations and unusual treasure items
I don't have a problem with the first post's content.
...ehm, ok
Templates for monsters and more locations with NPC: starting ones and higher population ones -I like this suggestments-
Agreed with 5-10 last pahes with all the tables, but probably better just to copy the existents ones in a paperbook or something like this
And the last 2 pages, traditionally with the image of a dungeon's squared map, with a outdoor squared map (just to do it different: buyers of DMG2 already have the DMG1 with the old classic combat map)
Maybe my point of view is different. out of rules for create minions, I don't need other crunch for new powers and races, but I understand this need and -if they put something like there- could be only better
So, first I need rules upgradated to 4th to fix holes of this Edition:
- rule about sleeping in armor (useful for ambusched at night - not all the fighter could stuck into a summoned heavy armor used as nightwear);
- rule about tie ropes/imprisonment, for capturing enemies and much more useful to menage how not let Pgs flee with teleport (a Eladrin needs only the smallerst hole in the wall/door to escape with the teleport);
- feat like the Alchemist one that goes around the old skills Craft, Profession, Entertainment (I think the Background suggestments in the PHB2 is too few: a feat for Artists, one for Mariners, one for Crafters, one for Siege Engineers, one for flat bonuses for other occupations is enough);
- fix the non lethal damage rule: I dislike non-lethal fireballs, ok is a fluff-thing fixable with a house rule, but if many have my impressions, only all the malee and ranged basic attacks schould be used for non-lethal damage;
- resistance of constructions and materials;
- more about grapple/smash objects/...;
- other such rules about "adventurer's live".
I hope noone of this nerfing, broken and/or useless stuff ever becomes real.
A chapter about military:
battles, naval battles, sieges, siege weapons, recruitment, sample armies, sample fortifications, naval and aerial units, mercenaries.
Useless. This is D&D, not Warhammer Fantasy Battles.
Also, military in a given game setting would be very different than military in another one. I don't think they battle in the same way on Athas and on Eberron.
A chapter about organised society:
monster's society, laws, jobs, settlements for different regions/geography, civilians (sample human/halfling/elf/dwarf civilian -certalny most of them minions: could be useful) and civilian's animals (sample dog, cow...), infos about different societyes (human, dwarf, elf, tiefling, dragonborn...).
Useless. It kills creativity and cannot be applied to all settings.
A chapter about architecture:
materials, building, types of settlements (farm hamlets, mining villages, coastal and fluvial harbours, strategical montuains/rivers/bridges, artisan industry and production, cattle), maps of sample buildings (for every playing race the map of a typical house, of a typical palace/building of autorithy, of a working place - human farm, dwarf mine...), materials of constructions in different goegrafical locations, architecture of dungeons;
Use... hell, what use could this ever see? Go buy some real history books and do not try to turn our game material into an expensive and superficial essay on architecture.
A chapter about wilderness:
animals, plants, geografy, seasons, rain/snow and such thing, set a camp in the wilderness, survive in the wilderness, travel in the wilderness, natural elements, sample maps of special wild places (offspring in a cave in the montains, plagueland in a valley, a small island, oasi in the desert, frozen plains with ice and snow, delta of a river, volcano);
Again, too specific to work in all settings.
More traps and obstacles for every level.
I second this.
Out of combat options, suggestments and rules about skills/checks (like a goliath's bonus to Athletics only for clim and jump, such bonuses for all the other skills for many situations).
These already exist. They are called skill challenges.
Things I do hope for:
- Sigil;
- rules and suggestions on building elites and solos out of scraps;
- Sigil;
- more templates;
- Sigil;
- rules and suggestions on building new races;
- did I mention Sigil?
Detailed history of PoL setting
The entire point of the PoL 'setting' is that it has very little detail, thus making it easier for the DM to add his own touches.
is interesting to some people, myself included. That makes it "not"
useless.
You want information on Sigil? It's already in Manual of the Planes. Why
clog up a rulebook with fluff about a city that not everyone uses in
their campaigns? (Yes, I'm being facetious.)
What is the problem with imprisonment rules? Or a rule about non-lethal
fireballs? And what is useless about feats for boosting skills depending
on things like Artistry training?
What would be wrong with a chapter dedicated to teaching a DM how to
create societal fluff? Would that kill anyone? Could it be that not
everyone who plays D&D has superpowers of fluff creation of their
own and maybe need a little help? And before I hear the "learn to
Google" argument for the three-hundredth time, not everyone has the time
to spend doing ridiculous amounts of research to prepare for a game.
Many different kinds of people play D&D, and not all of them have loads
of time on their hands to spend on game prep.
In summary: just because you wouldn't use it doesn't make it
useless.
If I wanted to use a number of locales given in MoP or Dragon articles or whatever, I'd prefer a chronology so that I didn't make a mistake with anachronistic items from the Tiefling Empire or something, which would come to light in a later adventure or in a later article.
I think the generic setting has now become so large and detailed that it is no longer generic enough. The setting has become part of Monster write-ups, race fluff, the cosmology etc
So, first I need rules upgradated to 4th to fix holes of this Edition:
- rule about sleeping in armor (useful for ambusched at night - not all the fighter could stuck into a summoned heavy armor used as nightwear);
Why do you need rules for this? Either you allow it even though it makes no sense, introduce a negative effect for doing it or disallow it.
- rule about tie ropes/imprisonment, for capturing enemies and much more useful to menage how not let Pgs flee with teleport (a Eladrin needs only the smallerst hole in the wall/door to escape with the teleport);
Why do you need rules for this? You've got suggested DCs for a range of things. It should be within anyone's capability to set a realistic/balanced DC.
Also why do you need to disallow teleport? It exists. The bad guys should take this into consideration while the PCs also take it into consideration. One simple way is to put a bag over someone's head.
- feat like the Alchemist one that goes around the old skills Craft, Profession, Entertainment (I think the Background suggestments in the PHB2 is too few: a feat for Artists, one for Mariners, one for Crafters, one for Siege Engineers, one for flat bonuses for other occupations is enough);
I don't think you'll find such crunch in a DMG unless you want it exclusively for NPCs in which case it will probably be a template.
- fix the non lethal damage rule: I dislike non-lethal fireballs, ok is a fluff-thing fixable with a house rule, but if many have my impressions, only all the malee and ranged basic attacks schould be used for non-lethal damage;
Why do you need WotC to tell you to change the rule? You don't like it? House rule it. "Spells always deal lethal damage." Boom, done. And it seems to fit your need.
Rather then continue on I think you get the message.
Were you a DM for 3.5e? Because there's absolutely no need for WotC to hold your hand. If you want something or dislike something, its simple enough to fix. At least with the above examples.
What I think you're looking for is someone to give you permission to do what you want to do. And the only reason you would need that permission is because you think someone is going to fight with you if you don't get permission first. Either you think it will be WotC (which is simple preposterous) or you think its your players. If its the latter, you need to deal with that rather then use a book as a shield. Because chances are its affecting a lot more then whether or not Fireballs can do lethal damage.
Things I do hope for:
- Sigil;
- rules and suggestions on building elites and solos out of scraps;
- Sigil;
- more templates;
- Sigil;
- rules and suggestions on building new races;
- did I mention Sigil?
Yeah I'm really tempted to try to work Sigil into my campaign. It would in no way make any sense whatsoever. But I want to do it any way :P
I understand about the light-touch PoL.... However, this setting has now grown with so many articles and sections of books that to use them consistenly would require at least a rough history.
If I wanted to use a number of locales given in MoP or Dragon articles or whatever, I'd prefer a chronology so that I didn't make a mistake with anachronistic items from the Tiefling Empire or something, which would come to light in a later adventure or in a later article.
I think the generic setting has now become so large and detailed that it is no longer generic enough. The setting has become part of Monster write-ups, race fluff, the cosmology etc
You do realise there probably IS no history about PoL right? That WotC are winging it as they go along? Any inconsistencies that crop up will be handwaved away.
I firmly believe PoL does not exist. And if you want to use all of WotC's products "as is" you're probably going to want to use 3.5e where they have every street named. Because 4th ed definitely can not be used on an "as is" basis. Not their Adventure Path, not their H1-E3 adventure series.
- rule about sleeping in armor (useful for ambusched at night - not all the fighter could stuck into a summoned heavy armor used as nightwear);
Don't want it, don't need it. I just assume my PCs do so, or can get into it fast enough for it not to matter.
- rule about tie ropes/imprisonment, for capturing enemies and much more useful to menage how not let Pgs flee with teleport (a Eladrin needs only the smallerst hole in the wall/door to escape with the teleport);
You don't need rules about this, really. More guidelines.
- feat like the Alchemist one that goes around the old skills Craft, Profession, Entertainment (I think the Background suggestments in the PHB2 is too few: a feat for Artists, one for Mariners, one for Crafters, one for Siege Engineers, one for flat bonuses for other occupations is enough);
Craft, Profession, ect. are flavor, not something which you should be spending junk on. They're a part of character backstory/characterization, they don't need mechanical representation beyond the standard bonus to checks.
- fix the non lethal damage rule: I dislike non-lethal fireballs, ok is a fluff-thing fixable with a house rule, but if many have my impressions, only all the malee and ranged basic attacks schould be used for non-lethal damage;
The non-lethal damage rule is fine. If you don't like non-lethal fireballs, rule you can't make non-lethal area and close attacks.
- resistance of constructions and materials;
The HP of standard materials at certain levels would be nice.
- more about grapple/smash objects/...;
There already are rules for grabbing. There don't need to be more.
Smashing objects falls under the above. Unless you're talking about sundering, which was removed from the game because it was garbage.
----
Here's what I want to see.
More traps
More diseases
More interesting terrain ideas, especially interactive ones
More ideas for how to spice up fights with solos
Rules for creating minions, or at least guidelines
More/better guidelines for creating elites and solos, and really monster powers in general
Stuff similar to what was in the Complete Book of Villains from second edition, regarding NPC motivation, hierarchy, ect.
Guidelines for creating your own campaign specific paragon paths and epic destinies
Something I didn't know I wanted, but which is awesome
We already have a rule for nonlethal fireballs. When you reduce someone to zero HP, you say 'knockout' instead of 'kill'. Done deal.
...I know it
personally I dislike it so I take the opportunity to survey other opinions: are here many people who like me suggest to change this rule? or the most are fine with it and just suggest to house-rule it?
so, until now, it's the second one: few disagree the rule like me, so the majority don't need a fix
Rather then continue on I think you get the message.
Were you a DM for 3.5e? Because there's absolutely no need for WotC to hold your hand. If you want something or dislike something, its simple enough to fix. At least with the above examples.
What I think you're looking for is someone to give you permission to do what you want to do. And the only reason you would need that permission is because you think someone is going to fight with you if you don't get permission first. Either you think it will be WotC (which is simple preposterous) or you think its your players. If its the latter, you need to deal with that rather then use a book as a shield. Because chances are its affecting a lot more then whether or not Fireballs can do lethal damage.
...no, JohnLynch, you're wrong
I'm not a fightening DM who need to be covered from the WoTC for fighting his own PGs
nor a 3.x lover who wants to play same way in the new Edition
and not a childish guy who pretend a game to be perfectly like he wants
just a curios new DM who wants to know if many other players of D&D4 have same expectations on not
and ok, I guess I have to discuss with my players to implement some house rules or not (I'm a democrat DM)
-ok, done-
for the part about "sociatary stuff" I intended some fluff for ispiration and some tables for helping to buildi fast a city/region: there was something like this in 3.x I guess
(village for 800 people? maybe expect 500 guys of the dominant race, 100 of the second one, 80 for the third, 50 for the fourth, the rest the other races: such tables but better done; included "architecture = how make buildings and structures with sense, like differencies between hamlet's village and town's village", it's not much)
-yep, I haven't hours to spend for reaserch in internets and to read books: so some pret-a-porters already done is fine for me (and it's difficult to find on hystorical books how's a nanic society or a dragonborn one, you know)-
for the "battles" part, I don't want to create large sieges and naval confrontations: D&D is not the game to make this, I know
but, if sometimes PGs find theyselves near a battle (and try to defend just a single tower of the city, not the whole procetvive wall - or they fights just few squads not the whole army) I will find useful come statistics for some siege weapons, for some naval/aerial units, come types of fortifications (the wizard's fireball destroy ovbiously the hamlet's fence, not the great fortress: but i between? a table with examples of checks and hitpoints work fine for me)
- did I mention Sigil?
...ah, and Sigil is on the Manual of the Planes? did you find here's too few? search in Google or read again the manuals of the past Editions
however, I want to know more about different enviroments and their associated hazzards. I know that speedy play wrapped arround combat is all the rage...
but for us story tellers it is not. for example, quicksand is "sink or swim"
that is all. not a single mention of a heroic fanatasy adventure storytelling alternative like, "D.M. to player, 'Your foolhardy charge accross the earthy clearing comes to a sudden halt! as your boots plunge through the surface, QUICKSAND! Your sinking, you have six rounds to escape, as each round passes the difficulty will increase.'
Player, 'OH NO!' first round check fails, 'I am sinking deeper!'
D.M. 'the villan pauses to mock your predicament with a hearty laugh, telling you that you were a good opponent, but not a worthy one. He turns to the bound princess saying to her [i]you have placed yourself above everyone and everything, I think it is time you learned what feels like to be the one who is pushed down and held under.[I/] He grabs her as she struggles futilly and with a brutal shove pushes her into the quicksand pit, here.
D.M. hmm you second and third check have resulted in failures, I will let you use your action point to gain a success now, before it is too late."*
Story telling, not cards, pogs and beads! wt- people
Also, I'd like to see more mundane (non-magical) equipment included. Specifically, I'd like to see more mundane armour categories.
I'd like some rules for crafting items, please.
Also, I'd like to see more mundane (non-magical) equipment included. Specifically, I'd like to see more mundane armour categories.
I know that you have a thing for armor, but why would you want new armor types in a DM book? Aren't those better suited for either an Adventurer's Vault or a Player's Handbook?I agree with much of the above.
however, I want to know more about different enviroments and their associated hazzards. I know that speedy play wrapped arround combat is all the rage...
but for us story tellers it is not. for example, quicksand is "sink or swim"
that is all. not a single mention of a heroic fanatasy adventure storytelling alternative like, "D.M. to player, 'Your foolhardy charge accross the earthy clearing comes to a sudden halt! as your boots plunge through the surface, QUICKSAND! Your sinking, you have six rounds to escape, as each round passes the difficulty will increase.'
Player, 'OH NO!' first round check fails, 'I am sinking deeper!'
D.M. 'the villan pauses to mock your predicament with a hearty laugh, telling you that you were a good opponent, but not a worthy one. He turns to the bound princess saying to her [i]you have placed yourself above everyone and everything, I think it is time you learned what feels like to be the one who is pushed down and held under.[I/] He grabs her as she struggles futilly and with a brutal shove pushes her into the quicksand pit, here.
D.M. hmm you second and third check have resulted in failures, I will let you use your action point to gain a success now, before it is too late."*
Story telling, not cards, pogs and beads! wt- people
You don't need rules for this. You have all you need. It's called imagination. All gamers have it.
I'd like some rules for crafting items, please.
Also, I'd like to see more mundane (non-magical) equipment included. Specifically, I'd like to see more mundane armour categories.
The rules for crafting items are already there. "Your character was a blacksmith? Okay, you make it."
We have all the armors we need.
most of the survey goes about our perceptions of the DMG1, and not about what we need in the next manual,
I totally agree.
rule about sleeping in armor (useful for ambusched at night - not all the fighter could stuck into a summoned heavy armor used as nightwear);
This does strike me as odd. I know why they omitted it (anything that remotely makes it unfair for players gets cut); I played some nasty LG mods where they set-out to ambush you at night. It's hardly fair.
But it'd be a good use for the Endurance skill.
A chapter about organised society:
monster's society, laws, jobs, settlements for different regions/geography, civilians (sample human/halfling/elf/dwarf civilian -certalny most of them minions: could be useful) and civilian's animals (sample dog, cow...), infos about different societyes (human, dwarf, elf, tiefling, dragonborn...).
This would make more sense in the MM. You know, if they hadn't removed 2/3rds of the fluff.
Some advice on designing alternate societies and cultures would be good.
A chapter about wilderness:
animals, plants, geografy, seasons, rain/snow and such thing, set a camp in the wilderness, survive in the wilderness, travel in the wilderness, natural elements, sample maps of special wild places (offspring in a cave in the montains, plagueland in a valley, a small island, oasi in the desert, frozen plains with ice and snow, delta of a river, volcano);
Really, this would just be more types of terrain and hazards.
More traps and obstacles for every level.
YES! The trap making rules from Dragon just don't mesh well with the examples.
I'd also like to see some advice on old school one-hit traps (trap minions). The ones that just strike you for doing something stupid or not paying attention and aren't full combats or skill challenges.
Really, the first DMG was about 4e and for new DMs. The DMG2 needs to assume its readers know what they're doing and offer advanced information.
The first was about getting started, the second should be about making the game your own.
* More of everything (traps, hazards, templates, diseases, poisons, terrain, etc).
* Making your own powers/ classes. The hard formulas for balanced power and such.
* Expanded monster creation (and customization) rules and options
* Optional rules and variant rules. How to customize classes/races/powers for different types of game (high/low magic, high/low xp, etc).
4e really assumes you're going to play one type of game (cinematic heroic fantasy with high magic and dozens of intelligence races) and I would really, really, really like a DM guide that gives good, well-thought out, and balanced advice for monkeying with the system.
They designed the game: they should know where you can bend the rules without breaking the game and where you should hold fast.
Just look at all the unhappy posters who wanted 4e to be something else. Imagine how many people they could bring back if the DMG included some optional non-RPGA throw-backs like wounds that heal over time (instead of overnight) or variants on power recharging for those who hate martial characters doing things once/day.
(anything that remotely makes it unfair for players gets cut).
Which is very, very good reason to cut something.
Which is very, very good reason to cut something.
However, being caught unprepared could apply equally to monsters. Sneak-up on the Big Bad and catch him without his armor.
Otherwise you could argue that surprise should be removed as it frequently affects PCs more than monsters.
Or terrain, as monsters are often designed to ignore or even benefit from it.
And the DM always knows the abilities and equipment of the PCs. The DM always has advantage tactically.
The game is inherently unfair. Why pretend otherwise? Having the PCs lose equipment for a period would be the equivalent to difficult terrain or a lengthy, debilitating trap.
The problem is the time required to put on armour, even hastily, is impractical in combat. Even in 3e the donning hastily rules were useless. The PHB sets the time as a flat 5 minutes, even for cloth (aka clothing) and leather armour. Does it take you 5 minutes to get dressed in the morning? Does it take the same length to pull on a coat?
As the designer buzz phrase goes: 4e is not a reality simulator. Why should putting fantasy scale or plate armor takes as long as donning armor in the real world? Especially magical armour. If every magical dagger returns when thrown can't every magical armour speed its equipping?
Donning hastily could be done quite well as a personal skill challenge. A "Situation" that could award XP like a Hazard or a Trap.
Obviously permanently damaging equipment would be "bad", but it could easily work like the new rust monster (debuff until a rest).
The game is inherently unfair. Why pretend otherwise?
You're right, the DM always has the initial advantage and the game is inherently unfair. Theres no reason at all to pretend otherwise. But, that is merely more justification to account for that discrepancy and make the game as much less unfair as possible.
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Now, as for some (only some, not all, I know plenty were nice enough so nobody get your panties in a wad) of those posts that have specifically quoted the OP. Maybe some of his requests aren't to your taste, and maybe some are just plain strange and useless, but that's up to him, not the rest of you. I don't agree with quite a few of his suggestions, but I'm not going to bust him over the head for it. Show a little respect for other people's opinions.
Frankly, he may have asked for opinions on his suggestions, but there is more negatively oriented text in this thread about that than the actual purpose of the thread...which is to make suggestions of our own and perhaps describe them so others may understand them better. Are so many of you that eager to deride others' views and lord your supposed intellect over them?
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Personally, most of the ideas mentioned so far are pretty good. Frankly though, I think nearly the whole book should be a How-To about making races, classes, powers, traps, etc., with the only new such things being the examples provided along with the rules. After all, why have all new lists of traps and so on if they provide you with the very means to make all of it yourself? Sounds like a waste of space, to me. I'd rather just have the method and a handful of examples.
(And that is what most posts should primarily consist of in this thread...not my opinion, mind you, simply in nature. State what you want, state why you want it.)
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As for homebrewing or house ruling things...a lot of DMs just starting out don't feel comfortable homebrewing til they have a better understanding of the rules. Unlike the vast majority of DMs who post on these forums and simply assume they always know best and make up ridiculous rules and such that would ruin the game for any sensible player. Should they let WotC hand-hold them? Absolutely not. But don't answer every suggestion or question with, "house rule it."
One of the biggest issues with house rules is they only apply so long as a majority of your group is ok with it. Very often, groups simply put up with crappy DMs and their half-witted house rules only because they have no other sufficiently viable gaming options under the circumstances. It's also often that they'd rather put up with such individuals as DMs because they'd be a genuine nightmare as a player (frankly I say let them be a player and then kick them out for being a douche).
DM adjudication and house ruling happens...that's the nature of the beast. But it should always...ALWAYS...be the last resort, and never the first choice. Everything you house rule can be challenged by players. While the rules in the books can be challenged also, at least then you have some sort of ground to stand on. When it's a house rule, you've got nothing but your own, likely heavily incorrect and skewed, opinion to justify something your players obviously don't find at all fun.
Now, having said all that, plenty of players are simply as bad as their DMs when it comes to understanding the game or being reasonable about rulings...so for such groups things actually often work out just fine and smooth. Which is fine for such groups, and more power to em. But like I said, that should never EVER be anyone's first and automatic suggestion to someone else's legitimate question or idea.
There's nothing at all wrong with wanting an official position of certain rules. Maybe it's not viable to actually do, but you don't get to blame someone for wanting it. If you're going to recommend a house rule...then recommend one. Don't just tell them to do it, or offer some vague, "slap -X penalty on it." Odds are such individuals have little to no experience doing so.
Likewise, I'd like to see Sunder and Disarm returned to the game. They don't make good powers but they'd be good at-will options like Bull Rush. Trade damage in your attack for striking weapons or armour, or knock a weapon loose.
Obviously permanently damaging equipment would be "bad", but it could easily work like the new rust monster (debuff until a rest).
There are powers that do that, and there's page 42. It's covered.
I don't care what books they come out in; I just want them. In particular, I'd like to see some light armour that is actually interesting.
There are powers that do that, and there's page 42. It's covered.
There are powers that sunder and disarm? Where? I know some monsters can, but it'd be nice to give PCs that option.
As for "page 42"... no, it really doesn't work.
At first glance it might: use the take with the level of the monster being the DC. Easy for regular monsters, Moderate for Elites, and Hard for Solo. But then you're disarming monsters with a "5".
Even if you put the base disarm as a Hard value and add +2 to the DC for elite and solo, disarming a L1-3 solo is only a DC 19.
So, taken to the far extreme, disarming orcus (L33) would be DC 39 (33+2+2+2) compared to his AC 48, Fort 51, Reflex 46, Will 49. And suddenly Orcus is denied his basic attack.
This highlights the probably problem with disarm. While it can be worked into monster power (and is) giving it to PCs means the DM will have to figure out how a monster attacks and its damage when it can't use its basic attack.
Here's what I want to see.
More traps
More diseases
More interesting terrain ideas, especially interactive ones
More ideas for how to spice up fights with solos
Rules for creating minions, or at least guidelines
More/better guidelines for creating elites and solos, and really monster powers in general
Stuff similar to what was in the Complete Book of Villains from second edition, regarding NPC motivation, hierarchy, ect.
Guidelines for creating your own campaign specific paragon paths and epic destinies
Something I didn't know I wanted, but which is awesome
Yes to all this!
I still keep the Complete Book of Villains on my shelf, even though all the other 2nd Ed. books I own live in a trunk. It should be required reading for all GMs regardless of game.
Skill Challenges: The thing I'd most like to see is a whole lot more material on skill challenges. The stuff we DDIers are getting from the designers hasn't convinced me that the RAW are fine and complete. On the contrary, they've only made it more clear that this is a system that needs *much* more attention. We've seen the basic idea of skill challenges twisted around like taffy bent into fascinating shapes, but the explanation of how to do this that we get in DMG is completely bare bones, at best, and just doesn't work, at worst.
The *idea* behind skill challenges is a solid one. I like that failure doesn't mean plot-destroying disaster so much as a success with a setback or negative consequence. If the result of an event is obvious or uninteresting, there's obviously no reason to take the dice out of the bag. But if we're going to roll dice to see how things turn out, let's make sure the math works well enough to make challenges, um, challenging without being impossible. I can overrule the dice whenever I like, certainly, but if a mechanical system is working, I shouldn't have to do so except in rare cases. Telling me to rule skill challenges entirely by fiat would be a bit like giving a player a new character class with a bit of fluff but no class features or powers and expecting her to know what to do in combat. I'm a creative guy, but I'd like to work with something more than a tabula rasa!
Editorial Reviews
Product Description
A source of inspiration for Dungeon Masters of any level
This core rulebook for the Dungeons & Dragons® Roleplaying Game features advice and rules for Dungeon Masters of all levels of experience, with a particular focus on running adventures and campaigns in the paragon tier (levels 11—20). It includes advanced encounter-building tools (including traps and skill challenges), storytelling tips to bring your game to life, new monster frameworks to help you craft the perfect villain, example campaign arcs, a comprehensive look at skill challenges, and a detailed “home base” for paragon-tier adventurers–the interplanar city of Sigil.
I wasn'y planing on buying the dm2 but Sigil makes it worth while for me
There are powers that sunder and disarm? Where? I know some monsters can, but it'd be nice to give PCs that option.
As for "page 42"... no, it really doesn't work.
At first glance it might: use the take with the level of the monster being the DC. Easy for regular monsters, Moderate for Elites, and Hard for Solo. But then you're disarming monsters with a "5".
Even if you put the base disarm as a Hard value and add +2 to the DC for elite and solo, disarming a L1-3 solo is only a DC 19.
So, taken to the far extreme, disarming orcus (L33) would be DC 39 (33+2+2+2) compared to his AC 48, Fort 51, Reflex 46, Will 49. And suddenly Orcus is denied his basic attack.
This highlights the probably problem with disarm. While it can be worked into monster power (and is) giving it to PCs means the DM will have to figure out how a monster attacks and its damage when it can't use its basic attack.
No, instead you make it like a bullrush, Str v. Fort (or Ref if you want). There you go. And if you want to make it easier for dex chars make it Dex V. Ref (or Fort if you want)
And as for the AC/Fort/Ref/HP of items, it's in the DMG... p. 65.
Want stats for that huge stone statue of Orcus?
AC: 3
Ref: 3
Fort: 15
Hp: 200
Edit: Changed statue from large to huge...
How about that large reinforced adamantine vault door?
AC: 4
Ref: 4
Fort: 12
Hp: 300