first, let me say that this book is pricy at 39.99 most hardcovers are 29.99 so you should really look through it before making the buy even more so then the ordinary books.
so lets dissect chapter 2 of this book, the players options
one issue is in the prerequisites are written poorly, they name a race as a prerequisite then add fluff following with extra information that confuse the issue for example neverwinter noble reads as thus
"Race Prerequisite human. the rulers of neverwinter have always been human, and you follow in that tradition even if your heratige might be muddled by intermarrage. mixed blood might make your quest more difficult, but if your intrested in this possibility talk to your DM about choices such as half elf and half orc"
this is an issue because of argument regaurding rules as written (RAW)
1. themes
so there are 13 themes let me go through them and ill rate them on a scale of 1-5 (1 sucks 5 is outragious
neverwinter noble - 4/5 ally gets +2 to all defenses and 5/10/15 temps as an encounter minorand when flanking with an ally at 5+ allies get a +1 to hit warlord should consider this theme however, you have to be human
Ogma's faithful - 2/5 you can understand a language for 5 minites, kinda meh but at level 5 you can reroll a skill check and at level 10 you get a +4 perception while searching kinda meh
harper Agent - 5/5 omfg this one is good you get a free rare item that can has 3 powers and you can 2 of them at level 5 and all of them at level 10 they are all encounters 1 is a saving throw reroll 2 is a reduce damage inturupt 5 + 1/2 level and the other is like memory of a thousand lifetimes (deva racial) awsome theme for any class or role if your in LFR this takes up your rare item
Dread Rat Deserter - 3/5 you are a wererat! you can turn into a rat and get some minor bonueses as an at will at level 10 you get an awsome hybrid form as an encounter that puts on some ongoing damage
Iliyanbruen Guardian - 2/5 eladrin only, you can take a buddy with you on feystep and use it as a minor at level 10 good good if you have eladrin swordmage advance but not good generally.
Uthgardt Barbarian - 3/5 encounter aura 2 until ENoT enemies cannot make OAs while in the aura, pretty good but nothing else to look at though also, human only half elf or half orc also but its not clear if this is RAW
Pack Outcast - 5/5 the best theme here, you are a werewolf, a mother ****ing werewolf if thats not enough for you you get to turn into a wolf, at will, this lets youf shift when you do it and gives you +1 to speed and a +3 1d8 bite weapon and you can still use your weapons while a wolf if you havent gone nuts yet at level 5 you get CA against anyone your adjacent to and allies get CA if they are adjacent to them as well (dosent work for ranged attacks in other words) the level 10 utility is a daily that gives you a hybrid form only black mark is human or shifter (possibly half-orc or half-elf depending on how you view the RAW)
Heir of Delzon - 2/5 at level 1 5+1/2 level poision resist, yawn. extra surge at level 5....ok i guess dwarf only, blah
Renagade Red Wizard - 1/5 no idea why anyone would want this its mages only and denies you your 2ed mage school for ayt features.
Scion of Shadow - 1/5 blindsight 10 for 1 round as a daily, yawn +4 to healing surgeswhen in dark, *criket noise*
Devils Pawn - 4/5 a close burst 2 5/7/10 fire damage, that wipes a whole room of minites and it lays down -2 a penalty ENoT zone to attack rolls and defenses, also resist 10 fire at level 10, the powers are all pretty much warlock infernal pact stuff so if your an infernal warlock this is your theme.
Spellscarred harbenger - 5/5 at level 5 daily power that dazes the target that you hit... and you take 5+1/2 level damage the outlaw has an encounter that does this, and you dont take damage. but now that the bad is out of the way, the level 1 and 10 feature let you choose a list of encounter powers like teleport 2 as a minor or invisable until start of your next turn or reroll a save
Bregan D'arthe spy - 4/5 drow only a levetate, good for ranged classes bad for melee classes BUT at level 10 when you grant CA, the enemy does not get a +2 to attack you, this theme gets this rating based on this alone.
overall i think great work, some themes like pack outcast and harper agent are the best, by far. i love themes and as of augest 4th LFR has approved them and these themes are OKed by the new campagin guide. most people want this book for the themes, the themes are the best part of this book
so there are 13 themes let me go through them and ill rate them on a scale of 1-5 (1 sucks 5 is outragious
neverwinter noble - 4/5 ally gets +2 to all defenses and 5/10/15 temps as an encounter minorand when flanking with an ally at 5+ allies get a +1 to hit warlord should consider this theme however, you have to be human
Ogma's faithful - 2/5 you can understand a language for 5 minites, kinda meh but at level 5 you can reroll a skill check and at level 10 you get a +4 perception while searching kinda meh
harper Agent - 5/5 omfg this one is good you get a free rare item that can has 3 powers and you can 2 of them at level 5 and all of them at level 10 they are all encounters 1 is a saving throw reroll 2 is a reduce damage inturupt 5 + 1/2 level and the other is like memory of a thousand lifetimes (deva racial) awsome theme for any class or role if your in LFR this takes up your rare item
Dread Rat Deserter - 3/5 you are a wererat! you can turn into a rat and get some minor bonueses as an at will at level 10 you get an awsome hybrid form as an encounter that puts on some ongoing damage
Iliyanbruen Guardian - 2/5 eladrin only, you can take a buddy with you on feystep and use it as a minor at level 10 good good if you have eladrin swordmage advance but not good generally.
Uthgardt Barbarian - 3/5 encounter aura 2 until ENoT enemies cannot make OAs while in the aura, pretty good but nothing else to look at though also, human only half elf or half orc also but its not clear if this is RAW
Pack Outcast - 5/5 the best theme here, you are a werewolf, a mother ****ing werewolf if thats not enough for you you get to turn into a wolf, at will, this lets youf shift when you do it and gives you +1 to speed and a +3 1d8 bite weapon and you can still use your weapons while a wolf if you havent gone nuts yet at level 5 you get CA against anyone your adjacent to and allies get CA if they are adjacent to them as well (dosent work for ranged attacks in other words) the level 10 utility is a daily that gives you a hybrid form only black mark is human or shifter (possibly half-orc or half-elf depending on how you view the RAW)
Heir of Delzon - 2/5 at level 1 5+1/2 level poision resist, yawn. extra surge at level 5....ok i guess dwarf only, blah
Renagade Red Wizard - 1/5 no idea why anyone would want this its mages only and denies you your 2ed mage school for ayt features.
Scion of Shadow - 1/5 blindsight 10 for 1 round as a daily, yawn +4 to healing surgeswhen in dark, *criket noise*
Devils Pawn - 4/5 a close burst 2 5/7/10 fire damage, that wipes a whole room of minites and it lays down -2 a penalty ENoT zone to attack rolls and defenses, also resist 10 fire at level 10, the powers are all pretty much warlock infernal pact stuff so if your an infernal warlock this is your theme.
Spellscarred harbenger - 5/5 at level 5 daily power that dazes the target that you hit... and you take 5+1/2 level damage the outlaw has an encounter that does this, and you dont take damage. but now that the bad is out of the way, the level 1 and 10 feature let you choose a list of encounter powers like teleport 2 as a minor or invisable until start of your next turn or reroll a save
Bregan D'arthe spy - 4/5 drow only a levetate, good for ranged classes bad for melee classes BUT at level 10 when you grant CA, the enemy does not get a +2 to attack you, this theme gets this rating based on this alone.
overall i think great work, some themes like pack outcast and harper agent are the best, by far. i love themes and as of augest 4th LFR has approved them and these themes are OKed by the new campagin guide. most people want this book for the themes, the themes are the best part of this book
I don't want to be 'that guy', but this has pretty much killed the last lingering scraps of enthusiasm I still had for this book.
your not alone here...
@ hatta, the lycanthropes are done incredably well and are the highlight of the book
@ duskweaver and relo i can understand where your coming from, there are 13 themes the bladesinger and warpriest stuff if you dont like essentials and your HG dosent allow themes this book has nothing for you like i said 39.99 is alot to throw down for 1 chapter of player options as a DM this book has alot of valuable stuff for me but from the players standpoint it matters with how much you value things
also i toyed with the bladesinger
at level 4, if you MC swordmage as an eladrin and take eladrin swordmage advance, on the turn you use your daily you can make 3 basic attacks and your wizard encounter all in one go thats gonna stack up to like 6d8+56 and throwing out 4 diffrent controller effects
@evilprincessasha it depends on the domain, corellen is about melee and ranged weapons with mobility and stuff ogma is about imposing penalties. selune is all over the place and torm is about defensive buffs
@ hatta, the lycanthropes are done incredably well and are the highlight of the book
@ duskweaver and relo i can understand where your coming from, there are 13 themes the bladesinger and warpriest stuff if you dont like essentials and your HG dosent allow themes this book has nothing for you like i said 39.99 is alot to throw down for 1 chapter of player options as a DM this book has alot of valuable stuff for me but from the players standpoint it matters with how much you value things
also i toyed with the bladesinger
at level 4, if you MC swordmage as an eladrin and take eladrin swordmage advance, on the turn you use your daily you can make 3 basic attacks and your wizard encounter all in one go thats gonna stack up to like 6d8+56 and throwing out 4 diffrent controller effects
thanks!! exactly what I wanted to know!
What's the map like?
It's a beauty!
Two-sided. One depicts Neverwinter and the other showcases Evernight. -- I haven't brought myself to tearing it out yet. LOL
What's the map like?
It's a beauty!
Two-sided. One depicts Neverwinter and the other showcases Evernight. -- I haven't brought myself to tearing it out yet. LOL
So these are maps of the locations, not grid-battle mats?
So these are maps of the locations, not grid-battle mats?
Maps of locations, correct. Poster maps, not play-mats.
at level 4, if you MC swordmage as an eladrin and take eladrin swordmage advance, on the turn you use your daily you can make 3 basic attacks and your wizard encounter all in one go thats gonna stack up to like 6d8+56 and throwing out 4 diffrent controller effects
Would some of those basic attacks be free actions? Sounds like something that might be affected by the new "one free action attack per round" rule.
Every page has multiple story hooks and plot or encounter elements and I found the player's options flavourful and excellent for creating rich backstory.
For me, the book is well worth the money and reminds me in a lot of ways of my personal all time favourite D&D product - the 2E City of Greyhawk Boxed Set.
at level 4, if you MC swordmage as an eladrin and take eladrin swordmage advance, on the turn you use your daily you can make 3 basic attacks and your wizard encounter all in one go thats gonna stack up to like 6d8+56 and throwing out 4 diffrent controller effects
Would some of those basic attacks be free actions? Sounds like something that might be affected by the new "one free action attack per round" rule.
no 1 is a free action, 1 is a minor 2 are standard and standard Action point
What's the map like?
It's a beauty!
Two-sided. One depicts Neverwinter and the other showcases Evernight. -- I haven't brought myself to tearing it out yet. LOL
I am definitely interested in seeing the map. If I recall correctly, it was designed by the folks over at Cryptic.
What's the map like?
It's a beauty!
Two-sided. One depicts Neverwinter and the other showcases Evernight. -- I haven't brought myself to tearing it out yet. LOL
I am definitely interested in seeing the map. If I recall correctly, it was designed by the folks over at Cryptic.
Actually, I designed and produced the map myself based on general direction from R&D. Attention was definitely given though to make sure that it was a fit with Cryptic's property.
I like the bladesinger, and will probably play one at some point soon.
The racial variants are, IMO the best possible way to do racial variants, so I'm happy about that. I like the themes even with their restrictions, and luckily themes are one of the easiest things to just print out and keep with your character sheet (having not "picked" a theme in the character builder) if you're using the CB but houseruling out the restrictions. Not a perfect solution, but at least they didn't make a race exclusive class.
I am excited about this book. I do wish that someone other than clerics had gotten new builds, but it is what it is. A lot of what I want in that regard is coming in the feywild book and the elemental book, so I'm groovy.
I like the bladesinger, and will probably play one at some point soon.
The racial variants are, IMO the best possible way to do racial variants, so I'm happy about that. I like the themes even with their restrictions, and luckily themes are one of the easiest things to just print out and keep with your character sheet (having not "picked" a theme in the character builder) if you're using the CB but houseruling out the restrictions. Not a perfect solution, but at least they didn't make a race exclusive class.
The racial variants are implemented wonderfully; I'm very happy with them.
The Warpriest Domains are actually super flavorful for the setting; I'd almost say they were needed to round out the experience. I was hesitant at first, but I'm sold on the diety-specific Domains as well.
What's the map like?
It's a beauty!
Two-sided. One depicts Neverwinter and the other showcases Evernight. -- I haven't brought myself to tearing it out yet. LOL
I am definitely interested in seeing the map. If I recall correctly, it was designed by the folks over at Cryptic.
Actually, I designed and produced the map myself based on general direction from R&D. Attention was definitely given though to make sure that it was a fit with Cryptic's property.
Then I recalled incorrectly. Thanks for the update.
I'll be looking forward to it anyhow, since you do some great work.the only thing i do not like is how they overfocused on a few things, like overfocusing on the warpriest, dwarf, eladrin and elf. while i think they should exist, eventually and having them is well and good i feel like more races and classes should of been covered
as for the actual mechanics i am very happy with them
the map is indeed beautyful
the only thing i do not like is how they overfocused on a few things, like overfocusing on the warpriest, dwarf, eladrin and elf. while i think they should exist, eventually and having them is well and good i feel like more races and classes should of been covered
as for the actual mechanics i am very happy with them
It focused on the races that are pertinent to the very accute view of the Realms that is covered by the book.
Perhaps we'll see more coverage of other races in future Setting spotlights? Would be cool!
Are there hybrid rules or feats for the bladesinger?
Nope.
but i speculate that these will be playtests down the line
So a PHB cleric (templar) can take the melee/ranged weapon powers of the elf god.
Also worshipers of Gond take the Oghma domain.
Oghma also has a ton of skill boost powers, I breezed us through the skill challenges on Neverwinter game day.
The rules say out right that the [SPECIFIC GOD] powers ARE open to any cleric.
So a PHB cleric (templar) can take the melee/ranged weapon powers of the elf god.
Also worshipers of Gond take the Oghma domain.
Oghma also has a ton of skill boost powers, I breezed us through the skill challenges on Neverwinter game day.
They're not open to any Cleric, they're open to the Cleric(Templar) if, and only if, they have a level associated with them.
As I stated in the other thread, Gond and Oghma share Domain powers because they share similar portfolios and spheres of influence; this fact does not open the park to all players.
and to be honest there is no point in being a warpriest
since you can get battle cleric's lore for better AC and take your pick of which powers are the best while getting the extended support of powers and feats as is native of the PHB1 classes
and its the "cleric" and the "warpriest", templar is a theme from darksun and i dont care who tries to rename it. a cleric is a cleric.
all leveled warpriest powers are avaliable to the cleric,
and to be honest there is no point in being a warpriest
I'm a fan of the Domain flavor and related crunch, myself. I've made an Oghmanyte Warpriest to wade through Encounters on days I find the time to play a game before my DM slot. -- Pretty stoked.
since you can get battle cleric's lore for better AC and take your pick of which powers are the best while getting the extended support of powers and feats as is native of the PHB1 classes
Eh, too easy.
I've found an acquired joy in delving into the fluff and characterization dictated by the linear design of the Warpriest, especially inspired by the Neverwinter material, and I'm excited to let go of the meta-game a bit in favor of becoming acquainted with a new character as he matures through gameplay.
and its the "cleric" and the "warpriest", templar is a theme from darksun and i dont care who tries to rename it. a cleric is a cleric.
LOL Resistance is futile!
all leveled warpriest powers are avaliable to the cleric,
and to be honest there is no point in being a warpriest
since you can get battle cleric's lore for better AC and take your pick of which powers are the best while getting the extended support of powers and feats as is native of the PHB1 classes
and its the "cleric" and the "warpriest", templar is a theme from darksun and i dont care who tries to rename it. a cleric is a cleric.
Enjoy insisting on stubbornly being factual wrong for no good reason.
I am excited about this book. I do wish that someone other than clerics had gotten new builds, but it is what it is. A lot of what I want in that regard is coming in the feywild book and the elemental book, so I'm groovy.
I like the bladesinger, and will probably play one at some point soon.
The racial variants are, IMO the best possible way to do racial variants, so I'm happy about that. I like the themes even with their restrictions, and luckily themes are one of the easiest things to just print out and keep with your character sheet (having not "picked" a theme in the character builder) if you're using the CB but houseruling out the restrictions. Not a perfect solution, but at least they didn't make a race exclusive class.
The racial variants are implemented wonderfully; I'm very happy with them.
The Warpriest Domains are actually super flavorful for the setting; I'd almost say they were needed to round out the experience. I was hesitant at first, but I'm sold on the diety-specific Domains as well.
Sounds like fun.
and to be honest there is no point in being a warpriest
If you're going to choose 90%+ of a particular Warpriest domain's powers for your Templar anyway, you might as well play the Warpriest and get all the other Warpriest features the Templar can't easily access (extra domain utility power, unique channel divinity powers, Resurrection, level 5 and 10 domain features, a paragon path that probably supports the 'feel' of your domain better than any of the generic Cleric PPs, etc.).
and its the "cleric" and the "warpriest", templar is a theme from darksun and i dont care who tries to rename it. a cleric is a cleric.
Except that Warpriests are also Clerics. And there's only ever one 'Templar' in any given game. Either you're playing in Dark Sun, where there are no Clerics and the only 'Templar' is the theme, or you're playing in another setting and the only 'Templar' is the Cleric subclass and there's no 'Templar' theme. (If you're playing in a homebrew setting where Dark Sun themes are allowed, then you will be renaming and reflavouring the themes anyway. Having to rename the Templar theme to avoid confusion is no worse than having to rename the Athasian Minstrel because that sounds like a Bard from a place no-one's ever heard of.)
and resistiance is clearly futile from what the other posters are saying.
@ doctorbadwolf, ok ...i guess? why am i factually wrong?
@ duskweaver, as normal you present well thought out arguments and i salute you for that.
however not the point what im saying is you will come out with a more powerful character BECAUSE you can mix them and get the support for the cleric, for example i can use healers mercy which in my experance has been the turning point of an encounter gone wrong.
for example choosing "brand of the sun" and "death's shadow" insted of having to choose the 2 powers native to the domain you chose, because of this and battle cleric's lore and the support of the class and its very powerful other powers. i feel that the cleric is mechanically superior to the warpriest
@ everyone i dont like the renames and that just my opinion so NAH :P
Sounds like fun.
For sure!
@ mrpopstar, probably the best argument you like the flavor therefore you like the class i am satisfied with that answer.
Well, thanks.
@ everyone i dont like the renames and that just my opinion so NAH :P
LOL
@ doctorbadwolf, ok ...i guess? why am i factually wrong?
@ everyone i dont like the renames and that just my opinion so NAH :P
You are factually wrong about the name issue. You presented your "opinion" as if it were fact, so I responded under the assumption that you believed it to be a fact.
Liking or disliking it is a matter of opinion. What the names are is not a matter of opinion.
Also,
@ everyone i dont like the renames and that just my opinion so NAH :P
U are not alone.
For once, I wasn't being smug. I was being irritated. A post was made that suggested that people who were refering to the templar cleric by it's correct name were, in fact, incorrect. I pointed out that that suggestion was factually incorrect. When asked to clarify my reason for telling the poster that he/she was factually incorrect, I did so.
But was it necessary for you to do that?
Yes.
New people read these forums. When someone posting here makes a statement or even a strong suggestion that is completely factually incorrect, they must be corrected as quickly as possible.
Pointing out that someone is wrong is never "necessary", but it's always "worthwhile". Well, if you have any regard whatsoever for that quaint little concept called "truth", anyway... ;)
i can comprimise to agree with this. :P