"New Builds: The wild battlemind, the arena fighter, the animist shaman, and the sorcerer-king pact warlock are new class builds suited to the Dark Sun setting."
Wild Battle-Mind? Arena Fighter? Animist Shaman?
Have I just been totally out of the loop or is this the first that we've heard of these builds? I honestly don't know what to expect at all here, and I'm not totally sure how I feel about these builds being present in a campaign setting book. What do you think that these builds will be like? I suspect that the Arena Fighter will be DEX-based or CHA-based, proably with light armor, but I'm stumped on the Wild Battlemind and the Animist Shaman.
Not too sure about wild battlemind or arena fighter, but animist shaman looks like... well, you ever watch/read Shaman King? Kinda like that. Gets a new at-will what makes your buddies melee attack, but pops your SC in the process.
I had heard of the Gladiator theme, which is described as "Warrior forged in the arena." Other than being for multiple different classes, I'm curious how Arena Fighter will differ from it.
Kindrok is an Arena Fighter (Gladiator).
Pak'cha is an Animist Shaman (Elemental Priest).
Vinara is a Sorcerer-King pact Warlock (Templar).
So the new battlemind option is really the only new one. I'm guessing that the Arena Fighter is to the gladiator theme like the Sorcerer-King pact is to the Templar. Animist shaman seems to give options for the spirit companion to "possess" allies, helping their attacks and perhaps making the shaman a bit less complicated for new players.
Perhaps the wild battlemind is a bit like the wilder?
I strongly suspect all or most of these new DS builds will use either Int or Dex in some way, to make them light armour builds (since clanking about in heavy armour on Athas is conceptually a bit wierd). In particular, I'd be willing to bet that the 'wild' battlemind is explicitly a light armour version of the class (though whether that's done by making it an Int/Dex-secondary build or by allowing it to add some other stat to AC I can't guess).
Wild Battle-Mind? Arena Fighter? Animist Shaman?
Have I just been totally out of the loop {...}?
Yes.
Animist Shaman confuses me, though: some of the powers we've seen of it use Int-riders, but the only Animist Shaman we've seen nearly dumped Int (11 at 1st level) in favour of Con (14 at first – Wis was at 16).
Also, Animists seem to take advantage of more of those Ancestral Warrior and Howling Spirit powers that didn't seem to fit any particular pact.
As for Wild Talents, I wonder if that will be just like the abilities from the introducing psionics article, where they were effectively boons.
That daily utility power for the warlock is bananas. An sustain minor insubstantial at level 6? I'm totally going to get that for my assassins. Take that Shade form! This is some awesome stuff.
I don't think the example battlemind they had was of the new build, but was instead a resilient battlemind. So we're getting something completely new.
As for Wild Talents, I wonder if that will be just like the abilities from the introducing psionics article, where they were effectively boons.
Actually it was Quick Battlemind that was somehow using Wisdom for all its riders, unless they fixed it.
It was a Resilient Battlemind: it has Battle Resilience and high Wis in both versions of Ulieth, the Elf Resilient Battlemind for Dark Sun Free RPG Day.
That said, what interests me is the way they did the Sorcerer-King pact: choose your ability score. If they errata ALL Warlock powers to be like this, I'll be VERY happy, and it'll solve the Vestige Pact problem moving forward.
I must be thinking of the encounter program. There was some WoTC endorced D&D thing that had a Thri-Kreen 'quick' battlemind that was using Wis instead of charisma somehow, and for its ranged basic attack said to "see Mindthrust" even though it didnt have mindthrust, a psion power.
As already stated, their battlemind was using an off-ability score and referred to a power on the psion character card; amongst other problems.
That said, wasn't the arena fighter what they previewed in dragon magazine when they first introduced the idea of arena combat?
I've found it very difficult to rely on WotC's "hey you, intern, heard of D&D? Make a character out of this book" pregens.
As already stated, their battlemind was using an off-ability score and referred to a power on the psion character card; amongst other problems.
That said, wasn't the arena fighter what they previewed in dragon magazine when they first introduced the idea of arena combat?
No, that was a Gladiator set of multi-class feats.
The first time the Arena Fighter was ever mentioned was in one of the Dark Sun pregen characters, where it revealed the sweet (if potentially underpowered) At-Will that allows you to use makeshift weapons.
We've seen a power from the animist shaman build here. The actual companion spirit class feature name is 'Elemental Spirit' (which is going to feel a bit odd outside of Athas, IMO) and it's a Wis/Int build.
That'll be odd?? Try Sorcerer-King Pact Warlock
Although I am already reflufing this new pact as ''You make a pact with a creature of imense arcane power, such as an archmage, demilich, or a god of magic''. Should work wonderfully.
We've seen a power from the animist shaman build here. The actual companion spirit class feature name is 'Elemental Spirit' (which is going to feel a bit odd outside of Athas, IMO) and it's a Wis/Int build.
That'll be odd?? Try Sorcerer-King Pact Warlock
Although I am already reflufing this new pact as ''You make a pact with a creature of imense arcane power, such as an archmage, demilich, or a god of magic''. Should work wonderfully.
That is a good point. In my Mystara campaign files I was all set to remove that pact -- then I realized that the Sorcerer King pact (assuming it doesn't have too nasty an overall flavor) might be used for a pact with Rad, Rafiel, or some other Immortal of Energy. Still, I will have to wait until I get the book in hand to see what I can do with it.
We've seen a power from the animist shaman build here. The actual companion spirit class feature name is 'Elemental Spirit' (which is going to feel a bit odd outside of Athas, IMO) and it's a Wis/Int build.
That'll be odd?? Try Sorcerer-King Pact Warlock
Although I am already reflufing this new pact as ''You make a pact with a creature of imense arcane power, such as an archmage, demilich, or a god of magic''. Should work wonderfully.
That is a good point. In my Mystara campaign files I was all set to remove that pact -- then I realized that the Sorcerer King pact (assuming it doesn't have too nasty an overall flavor) might be used for a pact with Rad, Rafiel, or some other Immortal of Energy. Still, I will have to wait until I get the book in hand to see what I can do with it.
Well flavor is mutable, take that away and it's like any other pact, except more leadery.
The Animist Shaman gives +2 to saves for allies adjacent to its spirit, and comes with an at-will that lets you dismiss your spirit to give an ally a basic attack (either ranged or melee) at +2 to hit (NOT combat advantage, just a bonus).
The Arena Fighter was a bit less obvious. From what I can tell, an Arena Fighter deals extra damage with improvised weapons (I believe it's d8 for a one-handed, d10 for a two-handed improvised weapon. It might also come automatically with a metal weapon. That is to say, it automatically comes with a masterwork weapon (and if those require proficiencies, that comes with as well). That pregen character had no real obvious abilities, until we noticed what the improvised damage was ("Hey, why is this so high?!?"), and no resources spent for the iron bastard sword that we could see. Otherwise it came with combat superiority and challenge, from what I remember.
We have also seen the Sorcerer-King Pact Warlock, who appears to be the most dpr-centric warlock yet introduced.
Did the pregens get posted somewhere? I haven't been able to find them.
To make it easier, one of the pregens names is Castri, anothers is Barcan.
Searching should be easier with the names.
Did the pregens get posted somewhere? I haven't been able to find them.
These ones?
Ah, ok intersting to say the least. Thanks for the help.
That'll be odd?? Try Sorcerer-King Pact Warlock
A powerful arcanist in any setting could refer to himself as a "sorcerer-king" and hand out power to those who make pacts with him. But, in most settings, 'elemental' implies something associated with the Elemental Chaos and the primordials, who are seen by the primal spirits as enemies to be kept out of the mortal world. 'Elemental shaman' in most settings makes about as much sense as 'paladin of Ogremoch' or 'Moradin-worshipping demon'.
like any other pact, except more leadery.
Also more gishy.
That'll be odd?? Try Sorcerer-King Pact Warlock
A powerful arcanist in any setting could refer to himself as a "sorcerer-king" and hand out power to those who make pacts with him. But, in most settings, 'elemental' implies something associated with the Elemental Chaos and the primordials, who are seen by the primal spirits as enemies to be kept out of the mortal world. 'Elemental shaman' in most settings makes about as much sense as 'paladin of Ogremoch' or 'Moradin-worshipping demon'.like any other pact, except more leadery.
Also more gishy.
Hence why it's called Animist Shaman, not Elemental Shaman. Animism is quite a bit different, and more largely applicable. I quote from Wikipedia:
Animism (from Latin anima "soul, life")[1][2] is a philosophical, religious or spiritual idea that souls or spirits exist not only in humans but also in animals, plants, rocks, natural phenomena such as thunder, geographic features such as mountains or rivers, or other entities of the natural environment.[3] Animism may further attribute souls to abstract concepts such as words, true names or metaphors in mythology. Animism is particularly widely found in the religions of indigenous peoples,[4] although it is also found in Shinto, and some forms of Hinduism, Sikhism, Pantheism and Neopaganism.
And if the power choices of the pregen character (who, notably, dumped Int despite it being the secondary for Con) are any indication, it'll have a bit to do with Ancestor Worship as well.
Regardless, I can see ways to refluff all three builds revealled thus far for my more Eberron-level technology homebrew world. And I don't doubt that I could do the same for the Wild Battlemind.
For example, I'm thinking of making the Templlock a pact with Efreet / Djinn, depending on how many fire or wind sort of powers fit in amongst the sand and blight ones.
Hence why it's called Animist Shaman, not Elemental Shaman.
The build name is 'Animist Shaman', but the actual class feature name is 'Elemental Spirit'. Just like the 'Eagle Shaman' has a 'Watcher Spirit' and the 'Panther Shaman' has a 'Stalker Spirit'. It's not actually a big deal, since the class feature name is essentially just a metagame concept, but it still feels a bit odd. At least, to me, it sounds more specific to DarkSun (and more out of place outside that setting) than the Sorcerer-King Pact does.
Animism is quite a bit different, and more largely applicable.
Yes, I do actually know what animism is.
By the default primal/Spirit Way fluff, all shamans (in fact, all primal characters) are animists.Regardless, I can see ways to refluff all three builds revealled thus far for my more Eberron-level technology homebrew world. And I don't doubt that I could do the same for the Wild Battlemind.
For example, I'm thinking of making the Templlock a pact with Efreet / Djinn, depending on how many fire or wind sort of powers fit in amongst the sand and blight ones.
Oh, sure. I'm likely to do the same thing with the Sorcerer-King Pact, since djinni and efreeti are powerful forces in my homebrew setting. The greatest of them are the closest thing my world has to the primordials of the default setting (i.e. ranking alongside the gods in terms of pure power), plus they live in a vast desert in the mortal world rather than on another plane, so their power should be quite easily accessible to anyone willing to trek into the deep desert and make a deal with them. I can easily insert some fluff to say that these pact-granting djinn and efreet lords are known as 'sorcerer-kings' by the mortals that deal with them.
It's nice to finally have the sha'ir back again, isn't it?
('TempLock' sounds a bit iffy to me, BTW, but I guess it's better than 'SoKingLock'...)
Elemental spirit isn't a shaman ability Pak'cha has, it is her theme power for having the Elemental Priest theme.
So for those complaining it doesn't fit the flavor outside of Dark Sun you are absolutely correct... It just doesn't need to.
I've noticed a few people on this thread making a big mistake about the Animist Shaman.
Oh, the irony.
Go read post #5 and follow the link. Then we can talk about who made a big mistake.
critical-hits.com/wp-content/uploads/201... (sorry, on my iPad so I can't hyperlink), it is Pak'chas character sheet and the bar on the top of the power clearly calls it the Elemental Priest theme attack. So I'd say it was more indicative that the new builds have synergy with comparable themes than the animist shaman has an ability that isn't listed on the character sheet.
For full disclosure the main article the picture comes from is here:
critical-hits.com/2010/01/29/dd-xp-2010-...
So I'd say it was more indicative that the new builds have synergy with comparable themes than the animist shaman has an ability that isn't listed on the character sheet.
And why the hell would that previewed shaman power reference the name of a power given by the theme, and not the name of the theme itself? You're just grasping at straws now.
Most classes have build names, and then a diferent name for the class feature that goes with it.
Build Name -> Class feature
Pusuing Avenger -> Censure of Pursuit
War Wizard -> Wand of Accuracy or Staff of Defense
Deceptive/Scourge Warlock -> Any pact you want
Protecting Seeker -> Spiritbond
Quick Battlemind -> Speed of Thought power
Warrior Forge Artificer -> Sheilding Elixir power
Bear Shaman -> Protector Spirit
Eagle Shaman -> Watcher Spirit
Panther Shaman -> Stalker Spirit
Animist Shaman -> Elemental Spirit
It is coincidince that the class feature and theme power both have the same names. They are not the same thing, and I really doubt that they will make class powers that improve if you take a theme, because then that theme will be the only theme that the class will take. Even if they are thematically similar.
Now I doubt that this will end the debate, but for the sake of the board's reputation and keeping people from getting overly annoyed, or even preventing a flame war, can we please end this debate?
I wish that wasnt true. It is so annoying when the build name differs from the defining feature.
For example, I wish the Wand Implement Mastery build was officially called the 'Wand Wizard'.
In the new case, I wish the 'Elemental Spirit' Shaman was officially called the 'Elemental Shaman'. (Likewise the Stalker Spirit called the Panther Spirit or visaversa the Stalker Shaman.)
A powerful arcanist in any setting could refer to himself as a "sorcerer-king" and hand out power to those who make pacts with him. But, in most settings, 'elemental' implies something associated with the Elemental Chaos and the primordials, who are seen by the primal spirits as enemies to be kept out of the mortal world. 'Elemental shaman' in most settings makes about as much sense as 'paladin of Ogremoch' or 'Moradin-worshipping demon'.
Although you do make a point, I must state that I have just decided to swap all my characters, in all my games, ever, for Paladins of Ogremoch, and will never play another class again!
Just as Primal classes can use fire, cold, and lightning powers, those are elements. It's fluff, really.
That being said, I am big enough to admit I was wrong. The review copies are being handed out and people on the rpgnet and enwolrd forums are answering questions about the books. I asked for clarification on this issue. Elemental spirit is the animist shaman feature. The power I showed in my last post, the elemental priest theme power, has been renamed Spirit of Athas, most likely to avoid the very confusion I exhibited.
Wow... Um sorry an observation made about the name of an ability caused that response.
Yes. Sorry about that. Reading my own post, it comes across as way more aggressive than I intended it to be. I was just puzzled (and a little bit exasperated) that you seemed to be clinging to something that seemed very unlikely in the face of the available evidence. Now that I'm less tired and grouchy, I can understand how the confusion arose.
Yeah, that word exactly for me too. When I try to convey 'exasperation' in email text, its easy to come across wrongly as hostile.