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New Character Themes

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
cool_guy
Oct 13, 2010 21:17:47 Will the future books have Character Themes. I also think Eberron abberant mark works better a a character theme them as a feat. I just hope that they don't go overboard and make themes for all 12 dragon marks
#2
undrave
Oct 13, 2010 23:12:13 That Abberant Mark theme idea is friggin' sweet!

We really need more themes! They've been drown in the hubub over Essentials and the ones in Dark Sun don't interest me that much.
#3
quexul
Oct 14, 2010 0:39:59 Yeah... agree...

Just some basic themes, put them up regularly on Dragon.
#4
GMforPowergamers
Oct 14, 2010 1:08:45 I have some homebrew stuff up in the other areas... still a work in progress

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...(_alla_darksun)..._my_problme_is_I_suck_at_balanceing_things._So_I_was_hopeing_for_some_help_here.Themeshomebrew_ideas...PEACH___Chaos_Soldier-_Div
#5
Duskweaver
Oct 14, 2010 2:34:18 Lots of things would work much more elegantly as themes than they do currently:
Multiclassing

Bloodlines/Heritage (Vistani, Deva, Elan, Dhampyr, etc.)

Dragonmarks (yes, all 12+ of them!)

Spellscars

Weapon masteries (the pseudo-multiclassing feat chains like Spiked Chain Training/Novice/Expert/Specialist)

#6
lizardmage
Oct 14, 2010 11:30:19 The Player's Option book coming out later next year (after Heroes of Shadow) is going to have new themes along with several other options. One already mentioned was the Blacksmith theme.

Hopefully they will hit upon some more racial areas and hybrid areas.
#7
theoucrew
Oct 14, 2010 11:51:58
Lots of things would work much more elegantly as themes than they do currently:
Multiclassing

Bloodlines/Heritage (Vistani, Deva, Elan, Dhampyr, etc.)

Dragonmarks (yes, all 12+ of them!)

Spellscars

Weapon masteries (the pseudo-multiclassing feat chains like Spiked Chain Training/Novice/Expert/Specialist)

I agree 100%. If they havent't changed these into themes before my next TPK I may just houserule it.

#8
GMforPowergamers
Oct 14, 2010 14:00:25
Lots of things would work much more elegantly as themes than they do currently:
Multiclassing

Bloodlines/Heritage (Vistani, Deva, Elan, Dhampyr, etc.)

Dragonmarks (yes, all 12+ of them!)

Spellscars

Weapon masteries (the pseudo-multiclassing feat chains like Spiked Chain Training/Novice/Expert/Specialist)

I agree on spellscars, and dragon marks (and can you say spellfire), and I could see, although would be warry of the bloodline/heritage, I really dislike the idea of multi classing this way.
#9
malisteen
Oct 14, 2010 14:18:34 I personally think themes would have been a better way of doing dragonmarks to begin with, but...

I personally am wondering what the themes will look like in heroes of shadow, if it has any. The original ddi assassin had fluff of binding a piece of the shadowfell to their soul, from which they derived their powers, which I find to be a frickin sweet concept for how a power source functions, one that could be a fluffy cornerstone for a varried selection of both classes and themes.

Imagine different kinds of connection to the shadowfell, or connections that came from particular sources. Imagine the piece of the soul lost in the process.

There might be one theme for characters who created such a connection deliberately, the piece of soul lost being some terrible grief or loss that they were willing to accept shadow into their hearts to expunge.

One for characters who got stuck in the Shadowfell for an extended period of time, and making that connection was the only way to insulate themselves from the plane's soul-draining miasma.

Or there might be one for characters who created that connection spontaneously, the shadowfell called directly into their being by some soul-shattering trauma, in which some part of their being literally died.

That kind of stuff, fluff wise. Mechanics wise - invisibility, concealment, damaging nearby life, shrouding weapons in necrotic energy, forcing enemies that attack them mentally to share some aspect of their inner pain, cool stuff like that.
#10
undrave
Oct 14, 2010 19:04:04
People should make and send an Eberron Dragon Mark article for Dragon mag!

I sure would like to try but I don't know Eberron enough :D
#11
ceiling90
Oct 18, 2010 1:24:58
Lots of things would work much more elegantly as themes than they do currently:
Multiclassing

Bloodlines/Heritage (Vistani, Deva, Elan, Dhampyr, etc.)

Dragonmarks (yes, all 12+ of them!)

Spellscars

Weapon masteries (the pseudo-multiclassing feat chains like Spiked Chain Training/Novice/Expert/Specialist)

Multi-classing is ridiculous in the way the implemented it, but for what it is, I think it works. This edition seems to hate multi-classing.

Bloodlines work great the way they are. I don't see how Themes would be any better.

Dragonmarks along with Spellscars would be okay as themes. They're already a wierd case of multi-classing as it is.

Weapon Masteries work alright as Multi-classing. It's a greater investment to be supremely superb at a single weapon. Themes would only allow multi-classing along with weapon mastery. I don't really see much of a difference, and I think it's better over all as a multi-class.
#12
undrave
Oct 18, 2010 2:16:38 I think Bloodlines would be better as Theme because then you can exhibit your heritage right at the first level and don't need to spend feat on it.

Now themes would have to get a bit more flexible than simply an Encounter power at first level though to really well represent certain things. I'd like to see Themes give you features instead or allow access to a different At-Will to select (instead of your class' ones).
#13
Relo
Oct 18, 2010 7:07:44
I think Bloodlines would be better as Theme because then you can exhibit your heritage right at the first level and don't need to spend feat on it.

Now themes would have to get a bit more flexible than simply an Encounter power at first level though to really well represent certain things. I'd like to see Themes give you features instead or allow access to a different At-Will to select (instead of your class' ones).

I like this idea except for the vampire heritage, as becoming a vampire can happen when bitten. And as a adventurer I can Imagen that you're more likely to be bitten then you're some peasant.
#14
undrave
Oct 18, 2010 13:35:14
I think Bloodlines would be better as Theme because then you can exhibit your heritage right at the first level and don't need to spend feat on it.

Now themes would have to get a bit more flexible than simply an Encounter power at first level though to really well represent certain things. I'd like to see Themes give you features instead or allow access to a different At-Will to select (instead of your class' ones).

I like this idea except for the vampire heritage, as becoming a vampire can happen when bitten. And as a adventurer I can Imagen that you're more likely to be bitten then you're some peasant.

'cept the Damphyr bloodline isn't about being bitten, its about being Blade. You are born with part vampire heritage.

A PC who gets bitten and turned into a vampire becomes a NPC. Otherwise vampirism is just 'curse with awesome'.
#15
ceiling90
Oct 18, 2010 13:43:37 I like how the Bloodlines work, since it's a feat, you can choose to say:

Somewhere in the plot you discover your part of this X heritage - that's a pretty common trope.

Vampirism, Lycanthropy, and other tranmissable occult heritages work well this way too.
- While the fluff is mutable, it would still the players the ability currently to become a vampire or whatever; not be an NPC.

Other bloodline heritages; could work as a rekindling or even a learning experience for characters, especially like the Dwarven, Elven, and those Human feats. Where, it's inherent; but needs to be booted up again.

Mostly, I house rule that Bloodline feats can only be taken at level 1 anyway. And the stuff that the bloodline heritage feats are worth a feat; at least an encounter power or daily power, additional skill bonuses or other bonuses. As a theme, they would recieve less.
#16
nb_nmare
Oct 18, 2010 15:18:05
Mostly, I house rule that Bloodline feats can only be taken at level 1 anyway. And the stuff that the bloodline heritage feats are worth a feat; at least an encounter power or daily power, additional skill bonuses or other bonuses. As a theme, they would recieve less.

Well, you could still have feats, but they would have the particular bloodline theme as a prerequisite, instead of having the initial heritage feat as a prerequisite.
#17
rampant
Oct 18, 2010 19:00:56 I'm gonna keep bloodlines as feats in my games.

Here's what I think themes will be great for:

Things that shouldn't be their own class but people keep trying to make them.

-Ninja
-Samurai
-Pirate
-Whatever Caster the game world has that's somehow "different" from any of the regular classes.
-Big guy
-Courtly/Official type
#18
Chiba_Monkey
Oct 19, 2010 1:20:00
I'm gonna keep bloodlines as feats in my games.

Here's what I think themes will be great for:

Things that shouldn't be their own class but people keep trying to make them.

-Ninja
-Samurai
-Pirate
-Whatever Caster the game world has that's somehow "different" from any of the regular classes.
-Big guy
-Courtly/Official type

+1
#19
phatwop
Oct 19, 2010 16:27:42 When I pointed out things such as Dhampyr working better as themes than feats at Gen-Con to Rich Baker, he agreed and said basically, we just didn't have that tech at the time.

(and they do - bottom line. Feats should define WHAT you do, not WHO you are, when these two things get conflated, issues arise. Note, all the things in your list are defining WHO the character is - his bloodline, his dragonmark, his iconic weapon, these are themes, not feats that should be competing with +1 to hit and +5 hit points)
#20
undrave
Oct 20, 2010 2:10:36
When I pointed out things such as Dhampyr working better as themes than feats at Gen-Con to Rich Baker, he agreed and said basically, we just didn't have that tech at the time.

(and they do - bottom line. Feats should define WHAT you do, not WHO you are, when these two things get conflated, issues arise. Note, all the things in your list are defining WHO the character is - his bloodline, his dragonmark, his iconic weapon, these are themes, not feats that should be competing with +1 to hit and +5 hit points)

QFT.

#21
KoboldAvenger
Oct 20, 2010 9:31:01 I'd think that if there ever was a Planescape campaign setting, the factions would likely end up as Themes such as Anarchist, Sensate, Doomguard with related Paragon Paths, Feats and Boons.

For Eberron I'd think that a likely theme would be Inquisitive as it certainly represents a character's place in the world and something special to do.
#22
ChrisTheS
Oct 20, 2010 12:07:48 I wouldn't mind if they turned some of the more obscure background options into themes (since I hate the current rules for backgrounds anyway). There are some interesting concepts in the PHB Races books in particular that are unfortunately hobbled by humdrum mechanics and deserve to be expanded.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 cool_guy Oct 13, 2010 21:17:47	Will the future books have Character Themes. I also think Eberron abberant mark works better a a character theme them as a feat. I just hope that they don't go overboard and make themes for all 12 dragon marks
#2 undrave Oct 13, 2010 23:12:13	That Abberant Mark theme idea is friggin' sweet! We really need more themes! They've been drown in the hubub over Essentials and the ones in Dark Sun don't interest me that much.
#3 quexul Oct 14, 2010 0:39:59	Yeah... agree... Just some basic themes, put them up regularly on Dragon.
#4 GMforPowergamers Oct 14, 2010 1:08:45	I have some homebrew stuff up in the other areas... still a work in progress community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...(_alla_darksun)..._my_problme_is_I_suck_at_balanceing_things._So_I_was_hopeing_for_some_help_here.Themeshomebrew_ideas...PEACH___Chaos_Soldier-_Div
#5 Duskweaver Oct 14, 2010 2:34:18	Lots of things would work much more elegantly as themes than they do currently: Multiclassing Bloodlines/Heritage (Vistani, Deva, Elan, Dhampyr, etc.) Dragonmarks (yes, all 12+ of them!) Spellscars Weapon masteries (the pseudo-multiclassing feat chains like Spiked Chain Training/Novice/Expert/Specialist)
#6 lizardmage Oct 14, 2010 11:30:19	The Player's Option book coming out later next year (after Heroes of Shadow) is going to have new themes along with several other options. One already mentioned was the Blacksmith theme. Hopefully they will hit upon some more racial areas and hybrid areas.
#7 theoucrew Oct 14, 2010 11:51:58	Lots of things would work much more elegantly as themes than they do currently: Multiclassing Bloodlines/Heritage (Vistani, Deva, Elan, Dhampyr, etc.) Dragonmarks (yes, all 12+ of them!) Spellscars Weapon masteries (the pseudo-multiclassing feat chains like Spiked Chain Training/Novice/Expert/Specialist) I agree 100%. If they havent't changed these into themes before my next TPK I may just houserule it.
#8 GMforPowergamers Oct 14, 2010 14:00:25	Lots of things would work much more elegantly as themes than they do currently: Multiclassing Bloodlines/Heritage (Vistani, Deva, Elan, Dhampyr, etc.) Dragonmarks (yes, all 12+ of them!) Spellscars Weapon masteries (the pseudo-multiclassing feat chains like Spiked Chain Training/Novice/Expert/Specialist) I agree on spellscars, and dragon marks (and can you say spellfire), and I could see, although would be warry of the bloodline/heritage, I really dislike the idea of multi classing this way.
#9 malisteen Oct 14, 2010 14:18:34	I personally think themes would have been a better way of doing dragonmarks to begin with, but... I personally am wondering what the themes will look like in heroes of shadow, if it has any. The original ddi assassin had fluff of binding a piece of the shadowfell to their soul, from which they derived their powers, which I find to be a frickin sweet concept for how a power source functions, one that could be a fluffy cornerstone for a varried selection of both classes and themes. Imagine different kinds of connection to the shadowfell, or connections that came from particular sources. Imagine the piece of the soul lost in the process. There might be one theme for characters who created such a connection deliberately, the piece of soul lost being some terrible grief or loss that they were willing to accept shadow into their hearts to expunge. One for characters who got stuck in the Shadowfell for an extended period of time, and making that connection was the only way to insulate themselves from the plane's soul-draining miasma. Or there might be one for characters who created that connection spontaneously, the shadowfell called directly into their being by some soul-shattering trauma, in which some part of their being literally died. That kind of stuff, fluff wise. Mechanics wise - invisibility, concealment, damaging nearby life, shrouding weapons in necrotic energy, forcing enemies that attack them mentally to share some aspect of their inner pain, cool stuff like that.
#10 undrave Oct 14, 2010 19:04:04	People should make and send an Eberron Dragon Mark article for Dragon mag! I sure would like to try but I don't know Eberron enough :D
#11 ceiling90 Oct 18, 2010 1:24:58	Lots of things would work much more elegantly as themes than they do currently: Multiclassing Bloodlines/Heritage (Vistani, Deva, Elan, Dhampyr, etc.) Dragonmarks (yes, all 12+ of them!) Spellscars Weapon masteries (the pseudo-multiclassing feat chains like Spiked Chain Training/Novice/Expert/Specialist) Multi-classing is ridiculous in the way the implemented it, but for what it is, I think it works. This edition seems to hate multi-classing. Bloodlines work great the way they are. I don't see how Themes would be any better. Dragonmarks along with Spellscars would be okay as themes. They're already a wierd case of multi-classing as it is. Weapon Masteries work alright as Multi-classing. It's a greater investment to be supremely superb at a single weapon. Themes would only allow multi-classing along with weapon mastery. I don't really see much of a difference, and I think it's better over all as a multi-class.
#12 undrave Oct 18, 2010 2:16:38	I think Bloodlines would be better as Theme because then you can exhibit your heritage right at the first level and don't need to spend feat on it. Now themes would have to get a bit more flexible than simply an Encounter power at first level though to really well represent certain things. I'd like to see Themes give you features instead or allow access to a different At-Will to select (instead of your class' ones).
#13 Relo Oct 18, 2010 7:07:44	I think Bloodlines would be better as Theme because then you can exhibit your heritage right at the first level and don't need to spend feat on it. Now themes would have to get a bit more flexible than simply an Encounter power at first level though to really well represent certain things. I'd like to see Themes give you features instead or allow access to a different At-Will to select (instead of your class' ones). I like this idea except for the vampire heritage, as becoming a vampire can happen when bitten. And as a adventurer I can Imagen that you're more likely to be bitten then you're some peasant.
#14 undrave Oct 18, 2010 13:35:14	I think Bloodlines would be better as Theme because then you can exhibit your heritage right at the first level and don't need to spend feat on it. Now themes would have to get a bit more flexible than simply an Encounter power at first level though to really well represent certain things. I'd like to see Themes give you features instead or allow access to a different At-Will to select (instead of your class' ones). I like this idea except for the vampire heritage, as becoming a vampire can happen when bitten. And as a adventurer I can Imagen that you're more likely to be bitten then you're some peasant. 'cept the Damphyr bloodline isn't about being bitten, its about being Blade. You are born with part vampire heritage. A PC who gets bitten and turned into a vampire becomes a NPC. Otherwise vampirism is just 'curse with awesome'.
#15 ceiling90 Oct 18, 2010 13:43:37	I like how the Bloodlines work, since it's a feat, you can choose to say: Somewhere in the plot you discover your part of this X heritage - that's a pretty common trope. Vampirism, Lycanthropy, and other tranmissable occult heritages work well this way too. - While the fluff is mutable, it would still the players the ability currently to become a vampire or whatever; not be an NPC. Other bloodline heritages; could work as a rekindling or even a learning experience for characters, especially like the Dwarven, Elven, and those Human feats. Where, it's inherent; but needs to be booted up again. Mostly, I house rule that Bloodline feats can only be taken at level 1 anyway. And the stuff that the bloodline heritage feats are worth a feat; at least an encounter power or daily power, additional skill bonuses or other bonuses. As a theme, they would recieve less.
#16 nb_nmare Oct 18, 2010 15:18:05	Mostly, I house rule that Bloodline feats can only be taken at level 1 anyway. And the stuff that the bloodline heritage feats are worth a feat; at least an encounter power or daily power, additional skill bonuses or other bonuses. As a theme, they would recieve less. Well, you could still have feats, but they would have the particular bloodline theme as a prerequisite, instead of having the initial heritage feat as a prerequisite.
#17 rampant Oct 18, 2010 19:00:56	I'm gonna keep bloodlines as feats in my games. Here's what I think themes will be great for: Things that shouldn't be their own class but people keep trying to make them. -Ninja -Samurai -Pirate -Whatever Caster the game world has that's somehow "different" from any of the regular classes. -Big guy -Courtly/Official type
#18 Chiba_Monkey Oct 19, 2010 1:20:00	I'm gonna keep bloodlines as feats in my games. Here's what I think themes will be great for: Things that shouldn't be their own class but people keep trying to make them. -Ninja -Samurai -Pirate -Whatever Caster the game world has that's somehow "different" from any of the regular classes. -Big guy -Courtly/Official type +1
#19 phatwop Oct 19, 2010 16:27:42	When I pointed out things such as Dhampyr working better as themes than feats at Gen-Con to Rich Baker, he agreed and said basically, we just didn't have that tech at the time. (and they do - bottom line. Feats should define WHAT you do, not WHO you are, when these two things get conflated, issues arise. Note, all the things in your list are defining WHO the character is - his bloodline, his dragonmark, his iconic weapon, these are themes, not feats that should be competing with +1 to hit and +5 hit points)
#20 undrave Oct 20, 2010 2:10:36	When I pointed out things such as Dhampyr working better as themes than feats at Gen-Con to Rich Baker, he agreed and said basically, we just didn't have that tech at the time. (and they do - bottom line. Feats should define WHAT you do, not WHO you are, when these two things get conflated, issues arise. Note, all the things in your list are defining WHO the character is - his bloodline, his dragonmark, his iconic weapon, these are themes, not feats that should be competing with +1 to hit and +5 hit points) QFT.
#21 KoboldAvenger Oct 20, 2010 9:31:01	I'd think that if there ever was a Planescape campaign setting, the factions would likely end up as Themes such as Anarchist, Sensate, Doomguard with related Paragon Paths, Feats and Boons. For Eberron I'd think that a likely theme would be Inquisitive as it certainly represents a character's place in the world and something special to do.
#22 ChrisTheS Oct 20, 2010 12:07:48	I wouldn't mind if they turned some of the more obscure background options into themes (since I hate the current rules for backgrounds anyway). There are some interesting concepts in the PHB Races books in particular that are unfortunately hobbled by humdrum mechanics and deserve to be expanded.