no polt there is a 4ed dm screen it just needed to be updated with errata
Yeah, before it even hit the shelves.
Yeah, before it even hit the shelves.
Embarassing, isn't it?
Not trying to hijack the thread, but am I to understand that there's no DM Screen for 4e atm?
There is a 4E DM Screen, and it's the best one put out by WotC in a long time, by a wide margin. (I say that as an owner of the 3E, 3.5E, and Eberron DM Screens.) I highly recommend it!
Yeah, [it was errata'd] before it even hit the shelves.
Embarassing, isn't it?
It's not embarrassing in the least. The information on the DM Screen is completely accurate to what's printed in the DMG; it was only updated because the DMG was updated, which was in turn updated because we fans asked for there to be an update.
Maybe you're embarrassed that WotC listens to its fanbase and cares enough about its products to make preformatted updates available as soon as the books are on the shelves, but I sure as hell am not embarrassed for them! In fact, I'm proud of WotC for it; this is an uncommonly high level of conscientiousness and devotion to making quality products.
Perhaps you'd prefer that WotC ignore our feedback and deny that their products could ever need improvement?
Suppose we take the 75 / 50 / 25 success rate for an easy / normal / hard task. Then, with the printed product which was play tested for years, at level 1 only a trained person with a very good ability score (20) could meet those demands for success in a skill (you need a +10 to pass at DC 15 75% of the time). This was not simply "listening to the fanbase", in my opinion. This is failing at simple math in a core product.
It's the same reason why I think the Expertise feats are embarassing.
The information on the DM Screen is completely accurate to what's printed in the DMG; it was only updated because the DMG was updated, which was in turn updated because we fans asked for there to be an update.
That's not true. The DC table is only one of the things on the DM's Screen that had to be errataed. There are several real mistakes on there as well.
That's not true. The DC table is only one of the things on the DM's Screen that had to be errataed. There are several real mistakes on there as well.
I stand corrected. That said, I'm still glad that they had an update available for this so swiftly.
Well, I respect that opinion that was a move based on listening to the costumers, but, to be honest, in my opinion it was failing to do a reasonable analysis of what was printed before it was printed. The d20 + modifier vs DC is a very simple probability model, and they screwed up when defining what was "easy" for this model, ie, how frequentely should a regular character succeed in an easy task.
Suppose we take the 75 / 50 / 25 success rate for an easy / normal / hard task. Then, with the printed product which was play tested for years, at level 1 only a trained person with a very good ability score (20) could meet those demands for success in a skill (you need a +10 to pass at DC 15 75% of the time). This was not simply "listening to the fanbase", in my opinion. This is failing at simple math in a core product.
Fair enough, but that's still not a fault that originates with the DM Screen, nor do the original DCs make the game unplayable.
At any rate, I stand by this product, because it's still leagues better than some of the ones that came out during 3E.
I'd love to see a new DM screen. The piece of a cardboard box I currently use is nice and all... but I'd like to not look so cheap.
Get this one it is high quality. And the DC's mean nothing to me since I really only play LFR and those DC's are provided for me in the modules.
I'd love to get one of them, I don't really care about the skill table. The original point was that it's sold out everywhere and the only way to get one is to pay 3 times as much.
That is a bummer, but I appreciate you mentioning it. I had no idea the Screen bumped up in value by so much... so I just listed mine on Amazon XD
I'd love to get one of them, I don't really care about the skill table. The original point was that it's sold out everywhere and the only way to get one is to pay 3 times as much.
Wow. See if I would have known that
I already have one and got offered one and a copy of martial power for running at a convention this weekend. Turned them both down since I have them both already.I could have mailed ya the other one.
I'd love to get one of them, I don't really care about the skill table. The original point was that it's sold out everywhere and the only way to get one is to pay 3 times as much.
Having looked into it, I see that you're correct; it's apparently not available anymore. (I suspect that makes a good case for this having been a high-demand product.) At any rate, maybe WotC should reissue it, or sell a new version -- the same product, but with updated info and different artwork -- to cater to everone who apparently missed out.
They had the same problem with Dungeon Tiles; the oldest sets are still in high demand even though they've long since been unavailable to order from WotC.
At any rate, I stand by this product, because it's still leagues better than some of the ones that came out during 3E.
Oh, yeah, no doubt about that. The current DM's screen is the screen future RPG screens will be compared against, seriously.
I don't know how could we use such crappy, light, thin screens in the past.