Brawler Style... discuss!
Now, if you want us to speculate? I'm hoping it comes with a built-in unarmed strike improvement like the monk's, so we can have a non-mystical bare-fisted fighter.
I'm surprised no one in this forum is talking about this new class feature... unless it's a red herring.
Brawler Style... discuss!
We are discussing it…
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
It's the main topic of the thread devoted to that FAQ preview that spoiled the new class feature.
EDIT: And now we're previewing some more of the Brawling Fighter build's powers. Interesting, no?
As some of us thought, it's about keeping one hand free to grab and pin opponents.
You can also trade out Combat Superiority for Combat Agility.
Finally, it looks like powers especially detailed for the Great Weapon and Guardian Builds won't be present, but instead it will focus on Brawling powers and expand the Tempest and Battlerager powers. This makes sense. There will be around 100 new powers.
What do you all think?
Feh. Not interested anymore.
(Hopefully there'll be a monk Multiclass feat that gives you Unarmed Strike, then.)
No unarmed strike?
Feh. Not interested anymore.
Your loss.
Brawling Fighter sounds AWESOME to me.
I'm hoping for that Monk MC feat as well, btw, and I've thought that it should be something of the Monk's rather than a class feature of another class.
No unarmed strike?
Feh. Not interested anymore.
Where are you getting this idea from? The excerpt describes brawler style with the following "The fighter’s whole body is a weapon that can be used for a sudden throw or a stunning punch." that description sounds like it could imply the option for unarmed fighters.
No unarmed strike?
Feh. Not interested anymore.
Where are you getting this idea from? From the excerpt "The fighter’s whole body is a weapon that can be used for a sudden throw or a stunning punch." that description sounds like it could imply the option for unarmed fighters.
Mostly this line:
Alternatively, you might keep one hand unburdened. Although you won’t enjoy the defensive advantages of a shield or the potency of a two-handed weapon or an off-hand weapon,
I infer from that that it's 'weapon in one hand, one hand free for miscellaneous stuff' rather than 'I punch things as my primary means of offense'.
No unarmed strike?
Feh. Not interested anymore.
Where are you getting this idea from? From the excerpt "The fighter’s whole body is a weapon that can be used for a sudden throw or a stunning punch." that description sounds like it could imply the option for unarmed fighters.
Mostly this line:
Alternatively, you might keep one hand unburdened. Although you won’t enjoy the defensive advantages of a shield or the potency of a two-handed weapon or an off-hand weapon,
I infer from that that it's 'weapon in one hand, one hand free for miscellaneous stuff' rather than 'I punch things as my primary means of offense'.
And the powers seem to be about grappling. That doesn't mean there won't be punch attacks as well, though. I could see them having a usage for stunning the foe, or for pushing them.
I infer from that that it's 'weapon in one hand, one hand free for miscellaneous stuff' rather than 'I punch things as my primary means of offense'.
Could go either way as I see it, so I think its too soon to write off the possibility entirely. Even if the class feature doesn't grant improved unarmed ability there might be a martial feat that does. Also as the deception of brawler style also mentions improvisation, I wouldn't be surprised to see support for improvised weapons, if not in the feature, than again in a feat.
Yes, but I see no evidence that you will be able to function decently completely unarmed, which is what I wanted. Thus, I am no longer interested. If it does work MC'd with Monk, however, I will then be interested again.
I think part of that point, though, is that a Martial character's bare fists aren't going to do lethal damage. It takes great mental discipline to put power behind those punches so much so that they act as if they were weapons. And an focus for that body-mind linked font of energy you're using to turn your whole body into a weapon.
It's just not something a fighter does. It's a bit TOO supernatural.
That said, if you're a Fighter MCing into Monk, you could take some of that training to amplify your Martial exploits with a full fist-fighting style. I just see that as a MC or Hybrid, rather than a Martial Class Build. It's a great character concept, just not a universal Martial one.
I infer from that that it's 'weapon in one hand, one hand free for miscellaneous stuff' rather than 'I punch things as my primary means of offense'.
Could go either way as I see it, so I think its too soon to write off the possibility entirely. Even if the class feature doesn't grant improved unarmed ability there might be a martial feat that does. Also as the deception of brawler style also mentions improvisation, I wouldn't be surprised to see support for improvised weapons, if not in the feature, than again in a feat.
Perhaps. I'll see what it's like once the book comes out. If I can make an unarmed fighter with it, then good. If not, I'll go back to my Tempest and Greatweapon fighters.
Yes, but I see no evidence that you will be able to function decently completely unarmed, which is what I wanted. Thus, I am no longer interested. If it does work MC'd with Monk, however, I will then be interested again.
I think part of that point, though, is that a Martial character's bare fists aren't going to do lethal damage. It takes great mental discipline to put power behind those punches so much so that they act as if they were weapons. And an focus for that body-mind linked font of energy you're using to turn your whole body into a weapon.
It's just not something a fighter does. It's a bit TOO supernatural.
That said, if you're a Fighter MCing into Monk, you could take some of that training to amplify your Martial exploits with a full fist-fighting style. I just see that as a MC or Hybrid, rather than a Martial Class Build. It's a great character concept, just not a universal Martial one.
I see no reason why a martial character's hands can't deal comparable damage to a weapon (they can deal lethal damage now, just horribly inefficiently). I don't see anything supernatural about it, considering that RL martial artists can break bricks, and they're nothing compared to the heroes of myth and legend that D&D characters are. It takes mental discipline, but just because something takes discipline doesn't make it supernatural. I would argue that virtually every martial character is big on 'mental discipline' as a matter of learning techniques and powers.
At this point, it's pretty obvious we both have extremely different views on just what the martial power source is and can/should entail.
Yes, but I see no evidence that you will be able to function decently completely unarmed, which is what I wanted. Thus, I am no longer interested. If it does work MC'd with Monk, however, I will then be interested again.
I think part of that point, though, is that a Martial character's bare fists aren't going to do lethal damage. It takes great mental discipline to put power behind those punches so much so that they act as if they were weapons. And an focus for that body-mind linked font of energy you're using to turn your whole body into a weapon.
It's just not something a fighter does. It's a bit TOO supernatural.
That said, if you're a Fighter MCing into Monk, you could take some of that training to amplify your Martial exploits with a full fist-fighting style. I just see that as a MC or Hybrid, rather than a Martial Class Build. It's a great character concept, just not a universal Martial one.
I see no reason why a martial character's hands can't deal comparable damage to a weapon (they can deal lethal damage now, just horribly inefficiently). I don't see anything supernatural about it, considering that RL martial artists can break bricks, and they're nothing compared to the heroes of myth and legend that D&D characters are. It takes mental discipline, but just because something takes discipline doesn't make it supernatural. I would argue that virtually every martial character is big on 'mental discipline' as a matter of learning techniques and powers.
At this point, it's pretty obvious we both have extremely different views on just what the martial power source is and can/should entail.
Agreed. As a final point to my defence, I would look at the Monk and see just why the Monk is Psionic besides the fact that at later levels it can deliver energy-type attacks. Why is it not Martial?
It seems that elements that might have in the past been called Martial have become elements of Psionic, seeing it as a union of body and mind, rather than a honing of the body and weapon techniques.
Yes, but I see no evidence that you will be able to function decently completely unarmed, which is what I wanted. Thus, I am no longer interested. If it does work MC'd with Monk, however, I will then be interested again.
I think part of that point, though, is that a Martial character's bare fists aren't going to do lethal damage. It takes great mental discipline to put power behind those punches so much so that they act as if they were weapons. And an focus for that body-mind linked font of energy you're using to turn your whole body into a weapon.
It's just not something a fighter does. It's a bit TOO supernatural.
That said, if you're a Fighter MCing into Monk, you could take some of that training to amplify your Martial exploits with a full fist-fighting style. I just see that as a MC or Hybrid, rather than a Martial Class Build. It's a great character concept, just not a universal Martial one.
I see no reason why a martial character's hands can't deal comparable damage to a weapon (they can deal lethal damage now, just horribly inefficiently). I don't see anything supernatural about it, considering that RL martial artists can break bricks, and they're nothing compared to the heroes of myth and legend that D&D characters are. It takes mental discipline, but just because something takes discipline doesn't make it supernatural. I would argue that virtually every martial character is big on 'mental discipline' as a matter of learning techniques and powers.
At this point, it's pretty obvious we both have extremely different views on just what the martial power source is and can/should entail.
Agreed. As a final point to my defence, I would look at the Monk and see just why the Monk is Psionic besides the fact that at later levels it can deliver energy-type attacks. Why is it not Martial?
Saying 'besides' the primary reason it isn't Martial doesn't make for a defense, or a fair argument, at all.
I also don't see where having the ability to punch things really hard requires any kind of 'mind/body unity' or any other mystical gobbledygook either. You're just HITTING THINGS REALLY HARD.
Yes, but I see no evidence that you will be able to function decently completely unarmed, which is what I wanted. Thus, I am no longer interested. If it does work MC'd with Monk, however, I will then be interested again.
I think part of that point, though, is that a Martial character's bare fists aren't going to do lethal damage. It takes great mental discipline to put power behind those punches so much so that they act as if they were weapons. And an focus for that body-mind linked font of energy you're using to turn your whole body into a weapon.
It's just not something a fighter does. It's a bit TOO supernatural.
That said, if you're a Fighter MCing into Monk, you could take some of that training to amplify your Martial exploits with a full fist-fighting style. I just see that as a MC or Hybrid, rather than a Martial Class Build. It's a great character concept, just not a universal Martial one.
I see no reason why a martial character's hands can't deal comparable damage to a weapon (they can deal lethal damage now, just horribly inefficiently). I don't see anything supernatural about it, considering that RL martial artists can break bricks, and they're nothing compared to the heroes of myth and legend that D&D characters are. It takes mental discipline, but just because something takes discipline doesn't make it supernatural. I would argue that virtually every martial character is big on 'mental discipline' as a matter of learning techniques and powers.
At this point, it's pretty obvious we both have extremely different views on just what the martial power source is and can/should entail.
Agreed. As a final point to my defence, I would look at the Monk and see just why the Monk is Psionic besides the fact that at later levels it can deliver energy-type attacks. Why is it not Martial?
Saying 'besides' the primary reason it isn't Martial doesn't make for a defense, or a fair argument, at all.
I also don't see where having the ability to punch things really hard requires any kind of 'mind/body unity' or any other mystical gobbledygook either. You're just HITTING THINGS REALLY HARD.
Damage type doesn't make the Power Source. I've said it with Arcane, now I'm saying it with Psionic. Psionic classes don't need to do energy attacks to be Psionic. Barbarians have a Primal theme from level one, even if their attacks are more weapon-based than any other class. It's about theme here, and what makes the power.
I'm not going to keep arguing, because it's clear that we're never going to reach a concensus other than that we're not reaching a concensus. I'll just say that I think our debate should be solved with either PH3, or at the very latest with Psionic Power.
The following line gives me some hope though.
Secondary Attack: Strength vs. Fortitude (unarmed)
Hit: 6[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the grab ends.
Miss: 4[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the grab ends.
Unarmed [W]?
Plus, people, if Combat Agility is what I think, we will have the option of having Dex instead of Wis applied to OAs, without expending a feat. Or maybe the resemblance with the feat is just in the sound of it, and it will be something different.
Different, please! I just got so interested in it, it will be a complete turn-off if it ends like just one feat we already have made into a class feature.
Plus, people, if Combat Agility is what I think, we will have the option of having Dex instead of Wis applied to OAs, without expending a feat. Or maybe the resemblance with the feat is just in the sound of it, and it will be something different.
Different, please! I just got so interested in it, it will be a complete turn-off if it ends like just one feat we already have made into a class feature.
I agree with you actually. Plus, the feat was "Agile Superiority", so it's still very possible that it will be something different. Let's hope.
I'm thinking it lets you attempt a grab instead of a melee basic attack.
But isn't that what Grappling Strike does?