Duergar (apparently more closely connected to devils), Kenku, and Bullywugs! Will update as more is posted!
I can't wait to play Kenku storm sorcerer! =D
The bullywug is one I'm glad to see come back (even as just a monster), and the kenku can be promising. The Duergar as being the dwarf equivalent to tiefling is interesting and plays into the lore of them from older editions (just more clearly defined).
I was hoping that the shifters would get a little more love when they got published in an official player capacity in PHB2, but no such luck. At least they brought the Warforged up to speed.
I wonder if that means we'll see duergar in PHB3? They have long been a race with psionic overtones...
I wonder if it's intentional that the back-of-the-monster-manual races aren't as good as the standard PHB races. From what this guy is posting, it looks like they're a little lackluster. But then, so were many of the other races in the back of MM1, excepting, of course, the Bugbear.
I was hoping that the shifters would get a little more love when they got published in an official player capacity in PHB2, but no such luck. At least they brought the Warforged up to speed.
I wonder if that means we'll see duergar in PHB3? They have long been a race with psionic overtones...
Except now they are more infernal than psionic. I am speaking from the description I have sitting here in the Thunderspire Labyrinth Module.
That said, I'd still love to see them as a PC viable option.
Why is it that most people don't understand that the monsters in the back of the book are not meant for players.
Case in point, the bullywug's power is an aura that when a creature spends a healing surge in the aura they are weakened. How useful is this to a PC? You know why they are weaker? Because they are meant to be monsters - specifically, so you can create a villain of a particular race.
In a perfect world, a player (by player I mean non DM) shouldn't even know these 'options' exist. The monster manual is, or at least should be, a DM only book.
The monster manual is, or at least should be, a DM only book.
They were a great way to have playable (if not balanced) version of many of the core 3.5e races, along with races important to Eberron. You'll also note they're all in the Character Builder.
With MM2 I was hoping to see races of Thri-kreen, Centaurs and others. Stuff you'd be crazy to give to a PC, but could definitely build NPCs out of. I'll probably have to be more adventurous and look at the monster creation rules in the DMG a lot more. Although the idea of 4th ed is that it simplifies a lot of this for you. But the MM2 doesn't really fulfill that role anywhere near as much as MM1 does.
They were a great way to have playable (if not balanced) version of many of the core 3.5e races, along with races important to Eberron. You'll also note they're all in the Character Builder.
With MM2 I was hoping to see races of Thri-kreen, Centaurs and others. Stuff you'd be crazy to give to a PC, but could definitely build NPCs out of. I'll probably have to be more adventurous and look at the monster creation rules in the DMG a lot more. Although the idea of 4th ed is that it simplifies a lot of this for you. But the MM2 doesn't really fulfill that role anywhere near as much as MM1 does.
Because they are in the CB doesnt change the fact that they were intended for NPCs and very rarely for PCs
Now if a player wants to go ahead and give it a go, and the DM is willing, that's alright. But I don't let players use the oversized races, in my games.
I'm sorry, but the 13 PHB races are simply not enough variation to satisfy me. Until Wizards releases a Big Book of Playable Races, I'm going to use the Monster Manual Appendix with impunity.
There are actually 18 official playable races, but who's counting ;)
I'm sorry, but the 13 PHB races are simply not enough variation to satisfy me. Until Wizards releases a Big Book of Playable Races, I'm going to use the Monster Manual Appendix with impunity.
We're probably only going to get races in PHBs and Player's Guides, but in general, I agree.
Bullywug? That sounds like some sort of fighting water type pokeyman.
"Bullywug, I choose you!"
"Bully-, bully-WUG!"
We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming :D
IF you've played EQ or EQ2 think of them as the frogloks. They're a humanoid froglike race, an amphibian version of kuotoa and lizardfolk.
I would have liked to have seen more than the 3 but we may get info on some of the other monsters in Dragon. Some they may have held back from doing because they know player's will want to use them since they do appear in the CB and Wizard's never made it clear that they were intended for NPC use not PC use (mostly since they suggested using the drow and gnome stats for those races before they got full writeups elsewhere).
We actually have 22 PC races currently including Draogn articles:
Warforged (Dragon #364)
Gnoll (Dragon #367)
Minotaur (Dragon #369)
Shadar-Kai (Dragon #372)
Wilden (Dragon #374 - Playtest version likely to change)
Drow (FRPG)
Genasi (FRPG)
Dragonborn (PH1)
Dwarf (PH1)
Eladrin (PH1)
Elf (PH1)
Half-Elf (PH1)
Halfling (PH1)
Human (PH1)
Tiefling (PH1)
Deva (PH2)
Gnome (PH2)
Goliath (PH2)
Half-Orc (PH2)
Longtooth Shifter (PH2)
Razorclaw Shifter (PH2)
There's also the Wogen in Dungeon #159 but they have an MM-style writeup not a full PC one, same with the Bladeling in MotP.
They're a humanoid froglike race, an amphibian version of kuotoa and lizardfolk.
Except they're more like kobolds in temperament and have funny names and don't look intimidating at all.
At least that's the impression I've gotten of them. If its the wrong impression I'd love to hear it (because at the moment I don't see myself using them).
There are actually 18 official playable races, but who's counting ;)
I don't count Dragon, as I don't pay for it and don't have access to it. But I guess you could count Genasi and Drow, from FRPG, so 15.
EDIT: I mean I personally don't remember to think of them as playable, because I don't have Dragon.
The 4th edition Monster Manual made it somewhat clear, that these monsters were intended for NPC use. In that when it's describing this section, it tells you. It does mention, with some tweaking mind you, that they can be used as player races. Otherwise, it does seem they were never intended as Player races when it gets right down to it. Of course, as I said, doesn't mean they can't, just going have to expect some unbalances if no changes are made.
I'm sorry, but the 13 PHB races are simply not enough variation to satisfy me. Until Wizards releases a Big Book of Playable Races, I'm going to use the Monster Manual Appendix with impunity.
Not if your DM doesn't allow it. ;)
We actually have 22 PC races currently including Draogn articles:
Warforged (Dragon #364)
Gnoll (Dragon #367)
Minotaur (Dragon #369)
Shadar-Kai (Dragon #372)
Wilden (Dragon #374 - Playtest version likely to change)
Drow (FRPG)
Genasi (FRPG)
Dragonborn (PH1)
Dwarf (PH1)
Eladrin (PH1)
Elf (PH1)
Half-Elf (PH1)
Halfling (PH1)
Human (PH1)
Tiefling (PH1)
Deva (PH2)
Gnome (PH2)
Goliath (PH2)
Half-Orc (PH2)
Longtooth Shifter (PH2)
Razorclaw Shifter (PH2)
I wouldn't count the shifter types separate myself. Same race, different flavor. Granted I suppose you could make the same argument about the whole Elf/Eladrin thing. :P
I wouldn't count the shifter types separate myself. Same race, different flavor. Granted I suppose you could make the same argument about the whole Elf/Eladrin thing. :P
I agree; why count Shifters separately if not Genasi separately? OTOH, I suppose Shifters do grant different bonuses with each subtype, but still, I don't think that ability score bonuses should be the defining criteria for a race. Shifter is one entry, and therefore, one race.
Personally, I don't consider Wilden to be an official race yet either, given its playtest status.
That all said, thanks for taking the time to post a list, Grazel! It was helpful.
for your work.Duergar (apparently more closely connected to devils)
If you hadn't heard -- or even if you had :P -- Duergar first appeared in 4E in H2: Thunderspire Labyrinth, detailed as monsters. (Kalnaur points this out above.) I'll give you the gist of their background:
Duergars in previous editions were mostly just a subtype of Dwarf, with bald heads, dark skin, evil alignment, and built-in magical powers. In 4E though, they're much more distinctly their own race, rather than just a special kind of Dwarf. Yes, Duergar now officially have infernal heritage; however in contrast to Tieflings (Humans from a nation which pacted itself to devils in exchange for power), Duergars are descendants of Dwarves who, as a clan, systematically interbred with devils, ultimately creating a distinct race. They look mostly Dwarf-y -- except the consistently grey skin and bald heads, mind you -- but now they're resistant to fire, they grow poisonous quills in their beards, and they have the (devil) subtype. (Note that Tieflings don't.) Female Duergar artwork shows them with hair on their heads and no beards, but with their quills growing from their hair. Duergar are basically all evil, of course, and whereas Dwarves mostly worship Moradin, Duergar mostly worship Asmodeus. Some Duergars (depending on monster combat role) have familiar abilities from previous editions: the ability to turn invisible, or the ability to spontaneously grow in size, for example.
Duergar are pretty different and pretty distinct these days, IMO, but I like it. Bear in mind the fact that early on in the 4E preview process, WotC indicated that in 4E, Dwarves wouldn't be sorta by skin colour, and that bald, evil, dark-skinned Dwarves would simply be as Dwarf-y as the rest; what they didn't tell us at the time was that they weren't rolling Duergars into Dwarves (though a lot of us got that impression), they were making Duergars into distinct creatures. Personally, I like the work WotC has done with them.
PS: Thanks for the love! I'm happy to be a part of your sig, so thank you!
Not if your DM doesn't allow it. ;)
I am the DM. It's all good.
Frankly, I'm still waiting on Svirfneblin.
Damn frakking right. I really don't want to have to wait for next year's Underdark book for them.
Frankly, I'm still waiting on Svirfneblin.
Bad! No subraces! Bad! Svirfneblin are just gnomes, frankly.
Bad! No subraces! Bad! Svirfneblin are just gnomes, frankly.
They kinda were, but clearly it'd be different now, because gnomes are fey, and deep gnomes would not be.
Besides, the stigma around subraces you have apparently fallen victim to is a 3rd Edition construct, because in 3rd, subraces were done very poorly. In 4th Edition, we've seen that it's simply not the case anymore. It bothers me when people say "no subraces", because it implies that the job can't be done right because it was once done very poorly. Deurgar are a good example of the job done right in this case.
Svirfnebli are totally my favorite, ever since reading "Exile".
They kinda were, but clearly it'd be different now, because gnomes are fey, and deep gnomes would not be.
Besides, the stigma around subraces you have apparently fallen victim to is a 3rd Edition construct, because in 3rd, subraces were done very poorly. In 4th Edition, we've seen that it's simply not the case anymore. It bothers me when people say "no subraces", because it implies that the job can't be done right because it was once done very poorly. Deurgar are a good example of the job done right in this case.
Svirfnebli are totally my favorite, ever since reading "Exile".
Deep gnomes would still be fey, they would just live in the feydark(probably as servants of formians). :P
They kinda were, but clearly it'd be different now, because gnomes are fey, and deep gnomes would not be.
Besides, the stigma around subraces you have apparently fallen victim to is a 3rd Edition construct, because in 3rd, subraces were done very poorly. In 4th Edition, we've seen that it's simply not the case anymore. It bothers me when people say "no subraces", because it implies that the job can't be done right because it was once done very poorly. Deurgar are a good example of the job done right in this case.
Svirfnebli are totally my favorite, ever since reading "Exile".
Duergar are a good example pf how 4E handles subraces, because Duergar aren't a subrace anymore. (See my post on the previous page.) In 4E, if a "subrace" is distinct enough, it gets made into its own fully distinct race; if it's not distinct enough, it gets folded into its parent race.
Are Svirfneblin distinct enough? Hard to say. They were quite different, but they don't have much traction despite how long they've been a part of the game. Still, I think there's potential, but they'll likely be quite quite different from what you remember.
Deep gnomes would still be fey, they would just live in the feydark(probably as servants of formians). :P
Good idea! But are Gnomes already escaped servants of Fomorians? Don't they already live underground in 4E? Oh, you meant more underground. I see. :P
PS: "Formians" are the LN planar ant-folk from 3E. "Fomorians" are the ugly fey giants.
Good idea! But are Gnomes already escaped servants of Fomorians? Don't they already live underground in 4E? Oh, you meant more underground. I see. :P
PS: "Formians" are the LN planar ant-folk from 3E. "Fomorians" are the ugly fey giants.
....Well while that was a typo, it still works. Hopnestly for some reason I like the idea of gnomes being enslaved by ants and being slowly warped into evil little things. As I recall Svirfnebli were slightly psionic also, which could be explained as a side effect from being so close to the hive mind of the ants(I don't care if ants do or don't actually have hive minds in reality, because the ants that enslaved the gnomes have them:P ).
....Well while that was a typo, it still works. Hopnestly for some reason I like the idea of gnomes being enslaved by ants and being slowly warped into evil little things. As I recall Svirfnebli were slightly psionic also, which could be explained as a side effect from being so close to the hive mind of the ants(I don't care if ants do or don't actually have hive minds in reality, because the ants that enslaved the gnomes have them:P ).
lol Well played.
Better that than deny us the best race name in the history of D&D.
While I do agree that they should not deny us miniature giant space hamsters, I fail to see how that is relevant to svirfneblin.
:PDeep gnomes would still be fey, they would just live in the feydark(probably as servants of formians). :P
If you're talking about gnomes who live underground and are slaves to the Fomorians, I would direct you to either the Korred or the Spriggans. Both are "dark gnomes" who were born of the Gnomes' enslavement to the Fomorians, and could easily be refluffed as your Svirfneblin. Basically, Gnomes are becoming more and more like Celtic pwcca, brownies, leprachauns, and such, rather than miner/tinker spirits of Germanic folklore (which were always more similar to Dwarves, anyways, and were interchangeable); this is a good thing - Gnomes were never really distinct from anything else because they tried to hard to be the gnomes who were really just smaller dwarves in the past. So Svirfneblin, like the Duergar and Drow, tried to emulate the Darkalfr better than their PC race counterparts (minus Elves, since they were emulating the Alfr).
Really, they don't have a place anymore as Svirfneblin, unless they considerably altered their backstory. I would say that Korreds and Spriggans fill the missing roles of Gnome subraces quite well, and you can turn to other small races if you want a different theme, like Dark Ones, who will almost certainly be the small race of a future PH (the one that will have both Shadar-kai and part/all of Shadow, which could be either PH3 or PH4).
If you're talking about gnomes who live underground and are slaves to the Fomorians, I would direct you to either the Korred or the Spriggans.
This.
I could see, however, them making Svirfneblin a more psionic-based race, like someone said before. I'm pretty sure, based on past experience in the fiction, that they previously had empathic abilities.
This.
I could see, however, them making Svirfneblin a more psionic-based race, like someone said before. I'm pretty sure, based on past experience in the fiction, that they previously had empathic abilities.
Personally, I would make svirfneblin more of an elemental race than a psionic one. While yes, they do have a limited form of telepathy (with other svirfneblin only I believe) they also have the ability to listen and talk to earth and stone, in particular earth elementals. So, the telepathy could be changed to a form of communication where messages are sent through earth/stone that they are standing on. Heck, change the race a bit to make them an entire species of Toph the earth bender from Avatar: The Last Air Bender. That would be really cool.
That being said, the svirfneblin society relies mainly on stealth to survive, something that the normal gnome has begun to espouse - that makes it logical that since the svirfneblin and the regular gnome are so similar now, you could just make the svirfneblin a racial feat similar to those found for the elves in Forgettable realms, possibly letting them make a stealth check without superior cover (just regular cover) when they are in a natural underground cavern.
Bullywug? That sounds like some sort of fighting water type pokeyman.
No. They are the minions of Warduke who help him capture DM with the sword of frost.
Kenku rock. :D
This.
