Anyone know what he's talking about? When/where is Sorcerer coming out and how soon is 'soon'? None of my players are really interested in sorcerer but you never know when a new player will come along so I like to keep every class prepped and properly seeded into my campaign just in case.
phb 2...not too soon
As with the artificer and the barbarian (and I'll bet the druid and the monk), we are likely to see a sorcerer out in Dragon Magazine for some playtesting long before PHB2 comes out.
[what Rils said]
As with the artificer and the barbarian (and I'll bet the druid and the monk), we are likely to see a sorcerer out in Dragon Magazine for some playtesting long before PHB2 comes out.
[what Rils said]
For one, I'm quite certain the Monk won't be showing its face in PHB2. Secondly, I'm not sure it's terribly likely we'll even see one more thirty level Barbarian/Artificer style playtest before PHB2, let alone two or three. Maybe some snippets here and there, but nothing so extensive. I mean, we're not even talking about half a year from release at this point.
If we do see one more, I certainly wouldn't mind it being the Sorcerer. I've been dying to see how they turned out, and this game could use another controller already! =D
For one, I'm quite certain the Monk won't be showing its face in PHB2. Secondly, I'm not sure it's terribly likely we'll even see one more thirty level Barbarian/Artificer style playtest before PHB2, let alone two or three. Maybe some snippets here and there, but nothing so extensive. I mean, we're not even talking about half a year from release at this point.
If we do see one more, I certainly wouldn't mind it being the Sorcerer. I've been dying to see how they turned out, and this game could use another controller already! =D
I will laugh so hard if the Sorceror turns out to be a magical striker.
I will laugh so hard if the Sorceror turns out to be a magical striker.
Sorcerer is a controller.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1031661
That mean taking the sorcerer back to the broad story concepts (concepts that evolved later in the sorcerer's original 3e design, since the sorcerer began with mechanics in 3e) and thinking hard about what it *could* be and how it could occupy the same role and power source as the wizard but be a different class.
Same role and power source as a wizard -- Arcane Controller.
For one, I'm quite certain the Monk won't be showing its face in PHB2.
Who said it would?
Secondly, I'm not sure it's terribly likely we'll even see one more thirty level Barbarian/Artificer style playtest before PHB2, let alone two or three.
We differ here. Dragon goes to a subscription fee this month. Placing the playtests in that publication becomes easy.
First, the production cost is negligible -- the classes are already developed. The editors do not need to pay a freelancer any additional monies, and the employment contracts with the book designers probably already include clauses that allow for such publication with no additional cost.
Second, each preview playtest offering is an opportunity to advertise the benefits of getting a subscription. Plenty of folks would love to see new classes (or new anything) earlier than the official release, and Dragon has long been a vehicle that helps meet that desire.
And third, the feedback they can get is invaluable. I am confident the barbarian we end up seeing in the PHB2 will differ from the one we saw this week. We have too many min-max experts, big picture visionaries, and detail-interaction specialists on the Boards for the designers to not take advantage of us.
Same role and power source as a wizard -- Arcane Controller.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but that post is from mid-May.
It's entirely possible that one or both of those things have changed at this point, more likely the power source (to Primal would be my guess, especially given the Wild Magic reference) but potentially even the role.
Who said it would?
We differ here. Dragon goes to a subscription fee this month. Placing the playtests in that publication becomes easy.
First, the production cost is negligible -- the classes are already developed. The editors do not need to pay a freelancer any additional monies, and the employment contracts with the book designers probably already include clauses that allow for such publication with no additional cost.
Second, each preview playtest offering is an opportunity to advertise the benefits of getting a subscription. Plenty of folks would love to see new classes (or new anything) earlier than the official release, and Dragon has long been a vehicle that helps meet that desire.
And third, the feedback they can get is invaluable. I am confident the barbarian we end up seeing in the PHB2 will differ from the one we saw this week. We have too many min-max experts, big picture visionaries, and detail-interaction specialists on the Boards for the designers to not take advantage of us.
It might become easy, but would there really be a point to putting playtest articles in Dragon in a few months? They have to send the books out to the printers something like 2-3 months before the books come out. Now since the PHBII comes out in March, that puts the deadline for any changes they want to make to be in either Decemeber or January. Which means theoretically they have 2 months of issues when they could even do playtesting before the books are finalized. And that assumes that they could make all the meanigful changes in the amount of time given, which I doubt they could for any playtests put out in December.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but that post is from mid-May.
It's entirely possible that one or both of those things have changed at this point, more likely the power source (to Primal would be my guess, especially given the Wild Magic reference) but potentially even the role.
The Sorceror is advertised as being expanded upon in Arcane Power. It is an arcane class. I'm sure that there have also been some more recent references to the role, but I'm too lazy to find them.:P
It might become easy, but would there really be a point to putting playtest articles in Dragon in a few months?
The point to putting out a playtest in Dragon in a few months is the same as the point to putting out a playtest in Dragon at any time.
Internet time is very fast. If they only allow a week for feedback, they're still getting feedback. If they allow a month, even more feedback. And if they decide to drop the playtest article "unannounced", there's nothing wrong with that.
And maybe they will skip the playtest option altogether. But that decision is likely to be based less on a "limited time frame" reason than on other more business-specific reasons.
The point to putting out a playtest in Dragon in a few months is the same as the point to putting out a playtest in Dragon at any time.
Internet time is very fast. If they only allow a week for feedback, they're still getting feedback. If they allow a month, even more feedback. And if they decide to drop the playtest article "unannounced", there's nothing wrong with that.
And maybe they will skip the playtest option altogether. But that decision is likely to be based less on a "limited time frame" reason than on other more business-specific reasons.
Okay but after they get the feedback they still need to work it into the class, test it, and then format it all of which takes time which they might not have if the final draft for the PHBII is due the month the playtest is released. The bottom line is that we won't get any PHBII playtests post-December, and whether we could get one in Decemeber is kind of shaky.
Okay but after they get the feedback they still need to work it into the class, test it, and then format it all of which takes time which they might not have if the final draft for the PHBII is due the month the playtest is released.
You're trying really hard to object to something that has no need for objections.
If they choose to playtest a sorcerer, it will be because they believe they can. Or that it will serve a set of business objectives they have set. They might even do it with no intention of fixing anything that might come up, and simply be that much closer to having errata ready after the book launches.
The bottom line is that we won't get any PHBII playtests post-December
You are drawing conclusions that have nothing to do with the decision (or lack thereof) you are trying to support, nor ther premises that you are imposing. Nothing stops them from releasing the sorcerer in Dragon at the same time they please. The suggestion that we playtest something can happen at any time. What they do with whatever feedback we might provide may be limited by the timing, but that is secondary to the freedom the publishers have in releasing the material in the first place.
and whether we could get one in December is kind of shaky.
Not shaky at all. Merely unknown by us.
WotC owns the content, the publication schedule, the electronic magazine, the message Boards, and the release rights. As an electronic medium, Dragon articles can be changed at the drop of a hat, or at least at the whim of an editor.