Forgotten Realms is nice, but as it seems it gets no support anymore. Forgone are the times where there has been several books per year. As far as I can see there will be no setting books for FR anymore.
Eberron will get the FR treatment for this year and that was it.
Older source books for these settings are just available on ebay and I am sure that WotC cannot build a setting on 3rd edition material which is not available anymore.
Dragonlance? Grey Hawk? (both good on their own, very but rather fashioned and not absolutely good usable for the modern and new way of 4e) Dark Sun (my god I hope not) Planescape and Spelljammer is up a certain degree included in the current material.
So at the moment we have several lore books for Dragons, Undead and Planes which are not fully compatible with the 2 current "mini"settings Eberron and Forgotten realms. (mini because there will only be 3 official new books of those settings available which makes them virtually a dead setting if compared to many books of the past. I suspekt they only make those 4e treatment of these 2 traditional settings to cater their many fans)
These above mentioned lore books about planes, dragons etc WOULD be compatible with a brandnew line of a books which could portray an advanced version of PoL and thus would be absolut perfectly suited to the needs of new 4e.
What do you think such a totally new setting? Is it possible? If no, why dont you like this idea? If yes when could it appear and what should it include?
They may release a new setting not explored in previous editions, but it wouldn't be to put a name to the generic PHB setting; it would be to stand by itself.
I'd be interested in seeing Dragonlance brought back if for no other reason than to see how they differentiate dragonborn from draconians.
Allegiances, I would think.
What is a dragonborn but a draconian descended from a good dragon, after all?
What was the legendary rider's name who fell in love with his dragon? I mean, literally?
...Dark Sun (my god I hope not)...
I would actually love to see a 4th edition Dark Sun.
I do have most Eberron books of 3.5E and will keep them, but I'd really like to see more on the secondary nations of Eberron, like Q'Barra (of which we know very little) or the Eldeen Reaches or even just the Demon Wastes...
This is the only sour note I can think of in terms of 4e's release - it came out before Eberron could get fleshed out with splat books as fully as many fans would have liked.
PoL is a really well-done quasi-setting, IMO. I don't think a new setting for 4e with a specific topography and nations is really necessary.
I hope Dark Sun is next years campaign setting!
I hope Dark Sun is next years campaign setting!
Agreed, can't wait to find out. I am also very excited for Eberron this year.
Next year seems to be Dark Sun, if hints and asides are any indication.
Recycling old material, they can release:
- Greyhawk
- Hollow World and/or Mystara
- DragonLance
- Al Qadim
- Ravenloft (now a demiplane, but it could get a full setting flesh-out)
- Planescape
- Spelljammer
I rather think, WotC makes good games AND additionally want to sell those books to us. What do they want to sell us after releasing PHB 3 and Metallic Dragons after 2010? Maybe Metallic Dragons II and PHB4? No I think they do something better.
the time after could be refilled with a whole line of new books for a native 4e setting not just 3 books. A setting which is not just a radically modified 3rd or 2nd edition world like those they have today.
It is for all those new gamers of 4e which dont have any 3rd edition books at home, sold it at ebay or whose dogs ate the books or who just dont want to play with some old fashioned stuff which is not compatible with 4e anymore. And for those who want to have more than a 2 sourcebooks and 1 meagre module for their campaigns.
So for all those people I say they WILL make a new setting. Its necessary and I am sure many people which love 4e but miss a suiting world around would love this setting too.
I feel newbish for asking but ... what is PoL?
Points of Light
The "default world" in which the core material and adventures are published.
And there are also a ton of second and later round runner-ups from the setting search. But I think the above gets us far enough into 4e (seven more years) to last until 5th edition.
Yes, 5th Edition will probably be along around that time, but I'd dearly love to see the Rich Burlew's setting for The Order of the Stick get a serious treatment (or just see his submission for the setting search if the OOTS setting wasn't it.)
So people here dont really want have and buy a brandnew setting which is suited to the 4e rules? Instead they rather play with their old 3rd edition books? Is this the new business model for WotC? I dont think so.
Uh actually most people want to play in worlds they themselves create. Assuming that you're going to homebrew your own world up is their marketing assumption.
I rather think, WotC makes good games AND additionally want to sell those books to us. What do they want to sell us after releasing PHB 3 and Metallic Dragons after 2010? Maybe Metallic Dragons II and PHB4? No I think they do something better.
I bet they do go on to sell the PHB 4. Somehow I don't see them running out of class ideas just yet.
As for monster books? I bet they branch out into Abberations, Immortals and other groups. You could probably spend 3 books doing fiend reprints and rewrites. They've got room to work here even before they think up new material.
So for all those people I say they WILL make a new setting. Its necessary and I am sure many people which love 4e but miss a suiting world around would love this setting too.
The problem is research says that's not a lot of people. Everyone wants their setting. But no one wants that other setting. Settings always are hard to sell except as a general concept. When it's actually on paper it's a lot harder.
Now maybe they'll pull together a new world like Ebberon. And that might be pretty cool But it'll still be a campaign setting, and will still be a niche work.
Personally, I really want to delve into the nuances of the 4th edition ruleset to see what sort of world we can create. Something that isn't generic fantasy, pulp magipunk, or survivalist grit, but a new theme that covers new ground.
For example, ritual magic is something I find fascinating about the new edition. It's skill based, it's expensive as heck, and its usable whenever you wish. Or you can use residuum by draining magical artifacts, but that only yields a certain percentage of its worth.
What sort of world would this produce?
Imagine mercantilist empires colonizing the globe in search of artifacts and magic to tear down into their base components to fuel their ritual forges. Imagine a noble cast renowned for their use of powerful ritual magic, given that they are the only ones who can afford them. An epic battle between the old world and the new, the traditions, permanent items, and old magics, versus the immediate use, the newly invented, the new world fueled by the ash and supernatural dust of the old.
Or perhaps a world in which the masses can lend their voice to rituals, where the ability to Aid Another can provide strength to the caster, where codified and tradition-bound magic surpasses any art.
The result is a dark world of superstition and ignorance, one in which adventure and invention are reviled, and tradition and obedience are glorified. Where lending one's strength to the masses is more important than individuality, and politicians and priests clamor for supporters to fuel their coffers and empower their magics. In the midst of this clamor, those who seek their own path must raise their voices above the dull chant of the believers and the commanding sermon of the conductors to challenge the old ways and conquer through skill and daring what others would crush with crowd conformity.
Baseless, terrible, silly, whatever they may be, I like looking at new ideas for this new edition, the quarks of the system from which empires rise and worlds are forged. Aye, we do need something new, not a base setting, but fascinating new niches that redefine the fantasy genre and give us new lands to explore, new peoples to meet, and new monsters to slay so we can take their stuff.
So people here dont really want have and buy a brandnew setting which is suited to the 4e rules? Instead they rather play with their old 3rd edition books? Is this the new business model for WotC? I dont think so.
No, actually most would be fine with new books for their favorite previous settings. And just as fine recieving something completely new for 4e.
I rather think, WotC makes good games AND additionally want to sell those books to us. What do they want to sell us after releasing PHB 3 and Metallic Dragons after 2010? Maybe Metallic Dragons II and PHB4? No I think they do something better.
You go ahead & think that. Me? I'll place my bets on reading PHB4+, etc. They might well release some unique product over the coming years. But they'll definitely also stick to making volumes II, III, IV, V, etc etc etc.
the time after could be refilled with a whole line of new books for a native 4e setting not just 3 books. A setting which is not just a radically modified 3rd or 2nd edition world like those they have today.
They could. But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting.....
It is for all those new gamers of 4e which dont have any 3rd edition books at home, sold it at ebay or whose dogs ate the books or who just dont want to play with some old fashioned stuff which is not compatible with 4e anymore. And for those who want to have more than a 2 sourcebooks and 1 meagre module for their campaigns.
1) Interesting as some of them are, you don't need any book from a previous edition to run a decent game set in an already existing world. Nor do you need every detail written out for you. This is true for 4e FR, it'll be true for 4e Eberon, & it'll be true for Setting:2010+.
2) I'm not sure why you think that the old details of the worlds wouldn't be just as viable if they were labled 4e as they were then.
Nor am I sure what you'd want to see expressed in a 4e world that wasn't/isn't possible in a previous setting.
For ex; If you didn't already know, say the DL story, & I presented it to you in 4e language, you'd either think it was contrived poo, be left neutral, or love it - exactly the reactions we had to it back in 1e. And 2e. And 3x.
Unless you're talking about NPC stats - in that case you just have to convert the numbers/details to reflect 4e.
So for all those people I say they WILL make a new setting. Its necessary and I am sure many people which love 4e but miss a suiting world around would love this setting too.
Maybe. Maybe not.
2) I'm not sure why you think that the old details of the worlds wouldn't be just as viable if they were labled 4e as they were then.
I've been trying to use City of Towers to help run an Eberron game in 4th Edition. There are a few things that I don't think convert very well. For instance, 3rd Edition assumes that certain magical items can be used by anyone with enough skill points, and can be used more than 4th Editions few times per day. It also assumes the existance of alignment based effects. Finally, the old settings don't account for the existance of some of the 4th Edition races. The existence of dragonborn would have a definite impact on Krynn, and not a trivial effect on Eberron.
These aren't insurmountable issues, but it will be nice when the designers of the game step in and show their ideas of how these changes can be implemented.
Nor am I sure what you'd want to see expressed in a 4e world that wasn't/isn't possible in a previous setting.
Character class balance.
I don't have any idea what went on in Dark Sun in 2e, and I shouldn't have to hunt down decades old material to figure out what the book is talking about.
Take what was awesome and unique about the setting to begin with, and run with that. Forget the metaplot of previous editions and refine the essence of the setting. No, the oldsters aren't going to like it, but they won't like anything you do. They've already made up their minds; now's your chance to hook a new, modern audience on Dark Sun or Al Qadim or Spelljammer.
Al Qadim
Ooh, I forgot about Al Qadim. I never read much about it originally, but I'd love a sourcebook on running an adventure in that kind of setting. Wasn't it part of the Realms, like Maztica and the land from [Eastern] Adventures?
There's Hollow World, too. That was for basic D&D, but it could be ported over.
I do like the new take on settings: 2 books, 1 module and done. I am somewhat saddened as a big fan of eberron that said world will only get that little attention, but that's the way.
It's not quite as bad as all that. True there will only be the campaign guide, player's guide, and one adventure released through retail for each setting, but it's hardly as if WotC intends to completely abandon the settings after that. Each setting will still receive additional coverage through Dragon, and to a lesser extent dungeon, magazine.
Each setting will still receive additional coverage through Dragon, and to a lesser extent dungeon, magazine.
It's to be expected that later PHBs, MMs, Power books, Vaults, etc. will contain at least a little guidance on how to incorporate new things into the various settings.
We're ALSO trying to pay attention to what y'all like/dislike about this philosophy we've adopted, and we're likely to make some course corrections along the way.
As most of you know, our philosophy regarding campaign settings is to provide three print books (a campaign guide, a player's guide, and a published adventure) and then support the campaign settings exclusively on D&D Insider. Starting in May, we will have no fewer than one 4E Forgotten Realms article every month, including a spankin'-new column by Ed Greenwood. When Eberron launches, it'll get the same amount of monthly love — not from Ed, tho'. :D
We're ALSO trying to pay attention to what y'all like/dislike about this philosophy we've adopted, and we're likely to make some course corrections along the way.
What about the people who don't have DDI and only use physical books?? Should we have to suffer cause we don't want to pay a monthly subscription to a table top game??
Next year seems to be Dark Sun, if hints and asides are any indication.
Recycling old material, they can release:Deviating from "world" settings, there is also:
- Greyhawk
- Hollow World and/or Mystara
- DragonLance
- Ravenloft (now a demiplane, but it could get a full setting flesh-out)
And there are also a ton of second and later round runner-ups from the setting search. But I think the above gets us far enough into 4e (seven more years) to last until 5th edition.
- Planescape
- Spelljammer
Some of the settings you mention have had their key concepts "absorbed" into 4E. For instance, Manual of the Planes contains information on "spelljammers" (from the Spelljammer® setting), "domains of dread" (from the Ravenloft® setting), and Sigil (from the Planescape® setting). One of the goals was to show how well these elements can work together in 4E without having to fracture the D&D game or its audience.
support the campaign settings exclusively on D&D Insider....
We're ALSO trying to pay attention to what y'all like/dislike about this philosophy we've adopted, and we're likely to make some course corrections along the way.
At one time I thought I heard noises about hardcopy compilations of Dungeon and Dragon material. That would really be great at some point. I have a subscription, and a laptop, and a printer, and I'm sure the interfaces for Character Builder and the Compendium will improve (maybe not to the point of mobile device access, but one can hope), but few things can beat having your finger on the line in the book (and not having to print and bind hundreds of pages oneself.)
Thanks for weighing in, Chris. Now please get back to work recruiting Vin Diesel and Felicia Day for the next D&D podcast, thanks.
What about the people who don't have DDI and only use physical books?? Should we have to suffer cause we don't want to pay a monthly subscription to a table top game??
My glib answer is "Yup" because, honestly, no reply I can give you will make you jump with joy.
We can get content out faster online than in book format, and without cluttering up store shelves with campaign setting supplements that appeal and sell only to a fraction of the D&D audience. We can also present a broader range of topics and more depth in the form of standalone online articles.
I sincerely hope that changes.
Also, I could be wrong about this, but it seem a little more expensive than the physical magazines per month.
And it might change if more vocalized this similar opinion. There are more out there like me than you think. I wasn't actually going to buy 4E for this reason. But curiosity and drive to play got the better of me.
One solution could have been making them bi-monthly and keeping them at the same page count.
This is and exorsize in futility. It just will force many to seek illegal ways to aquire Dungeon and Dragon as PDFs. It is unfortunate but true. They are fueling the piracy they are trying so adamently to stop. I dearly hope tehey realize this.
My glib answer is "Yup" because, honestly, no reply I can give you will make you jump with joy.
We can get content out faster online than in book format, and without cluttering up store shelves with campaign setting supplements that appeal and sell only to a fraction of the D&D audience. We can also present a broader range of topics and more depth in the form of standalone online articles.
I will ask until the day I die or until the situation changes:
Will you please get rid of the useless dark border at the top of the PDFs? I'm begging you, seriously! I like to print articles to read, but I don't want to be paying the rent for my local office supply store! Ink is expensive!!! Especially for us private end-users!!! Pictures? Fine, appreciated even. But pleasepleaseplease replace that border with something less taxing on the average person's printer and pocketbook!
(BTW, I applaud WotC on their "2 books, 1 module" format. MUUUUUCH more manageable.)
Some of the settings you mention have had their key concepts "absorbed" into 4E. For instance, Manual of the Planes contains information on "spelljammers" (from the Spelljammer® setting), "domains of dread" (from the Ravenloft® setting), and Sigil (from the Planescape® setting). One of the goals was to show how well these elements can work together in 4E without having to fracture the D&D game or its audience.
Any chance of a full on steampunk setting?
:D
Starting in May, we will have no fewer than one 4E Forgotten Realms article every month, to which we'll add a spankin'-new column by Ed Greenwood. When Eberron launches, it'll get the same amount of monthly love — not from Ed, tho'. :D
Good to know, Mr. Perkins. Once the Ebby content starts up monthly, I'm in. :D
My glib answer is "Yup" because, honestly, no reply I can give you will make you jump with joy.
We can get content out faster online than in book format, and without cluttering up store shelves with campaign setting supplements that appeal and sell only to a fraction of the D&D audience. We can also present a broader range of topics and more depth in the form of standalone online articles.
But the bad thing is, what about those people who don't have internet access? What about those people who like to go outside during their lunch break and read their magazine instead of having to wait to get home?? What about those people who show up at their friends house only to find out that internet is going to be down for a while???? Going all digital is like a bank going paperless, what happens is all data was erased or hacked or altered in anyway, then you have no physical paper backups. Why are you worrying about cluttering the bookstores shelves??? I have worked in a bookstore and they order only what they need. In my opinion nothing will ever take the place of a good physical book. Also, with a physical book once you buy it you have it, with DDI what happens if you can't afford your sub anymore, will you get to keep those previous issues that you more than paid for, do you get to access them but not any of the future ones?? Yeah it may be cheaper and easier to go the digital route, but cheaper and easier is not always the best way.
I'm also hoping that WotC will really get wild with their settings. With only two books at risk of a flop, instead of a whole line, perhaps they will be even more adventuresome. I would love to see them run another contest, since I wasn't around to see the first one - I'd even like to submit something!
Having said that, I'm really hoping for a reboot of Dark Sun :D
Some of the settings you mention have had their key concepts "absorbed" into 4E. For instance, Manual of the Planes contains information on "spelljammers" (from the Spelljammer® setting), "domains of dread" (from the Ravenloft® setting), and Sigil (from the Planescape® setting). One of the goals was to show how well these elements can work together in 4E without having to fracture the D&D game or its audience.
This sounds like a veiled confirmation that we will not see Spelljammer, Planescape or Ravenloft as independent settings.
In my opinion nothing will ever take the place of a good physical book. Also, with a physical book once you buy it you have it, with DDI what happens if you can't afford your sub anymore, will you get to keep those previous issues that you more than paid for, do you get to access them but not any of the future ones?? Yeah it may be cheaper and easier to go the digital route, but cheaper and easier is not always the best way.
The magazines are PDF files and once you download them are yours to keep indefinitely. Though they have not yet implemented it, WotC intends to make it possible to download issues that you have paid for even after your subscription has expired. While they haven't gotten the mechanics of that worked out yet, it is my understanding that customer service will work with any former subscribers to re-download any paid for PDFs that you might have lost.
Also the Character Builder, which is also part of a DDi subscription, is a downloadable utility as well and thus yours to keep indefinitely even if you let your subscription expire. It only requires a subscription to acquire new monthly updates.
Perkins, while your looking at this thread, I actually got a couple questions:
- When did this idea come about? Was at the beginning of 4e thinking or later? Part of the reason I ask, is it follows a similar stride to WW's mini-lines I am wondering if that inspired you at all.
- Also, I know you can't really say. But for those of us, who use setting books more just for crunch, not the setting persay. Is there any chance of "Setting Builder" books which is just like crunch and say just plothooks for fluff. The books be you know tailored to something; Horror, Cities, Steampunk, Technology, etc. Cause I would kill to get my hands on those.
The thing i always hated about the printed Dragon magazine was that i was paying for a magazine full of ads with maybe one article i actually cared about. Now if there is only one article i care about i can print out only that one article and skip all the garbage ads/filler. The yearly subscription is actually cheaper than it was before as well.
Oh, and the compendium is awesome. Being able to search everything in the game and get full text is incredibly useful.
I rather think, WotC makes good games AND additionally want to sell those books to us. What do they want to sell us after releasing PHB 3 and Metallic Dragons after 2010? Maybe Metallic Dragons II and PHB4? No I think they do something better.
Well, PHB 4 has already been confirmed, since it will take a minimum of PHBs 3 & 4 to cover the four known remaining power sources - Shadow, Psionic, Ki, & Elemental. PHB 5, 6, 7, etc. til the end of 4e is most likely coming as well, since WotC said one PHB, DMG, & MM per year. They've also stated before that older settings besides FR & Eberron will be getting the 4e treatment.
What about the people who don't have DDI and only use physical books?? Should we have to suffer cause we don't want to pay a monthly subscription to a table top game??
If you were to buy the books, you'd still be paying a monthly fee to WotC, effectively. Never mind the fact that a DDI sub is cheaper.
This sounds like a veiled confirmation that we will not see Spelljammer, Planescape or Ravenloft as independent settings.
Which saddens me greatly. At least Dark Sun is very likely. I'm still holding out hope for Birthright.
What is a dragonborn but a draconian descended from a good dragon, after all?
What was the legendary rider's name who fell in love with his dragon? I mean, literally?
1) Draconians are descended from good dragons.
2) Huma.
but I would like to see them bring back Birthright, at some point or other. It was a cool concept that would work even better with the current system then it did under 2e.
For example, ritual magic is something I find fascinating about the new edition. It's skill based, it's expensive as heck, and its usable whenever you wish. Or you can use residuum by draining magical artifacts, but that only yields a certain percentage of its worth.
What sort of world would this produce?
Imagine mercantilist empires colonizing the globe in search of artifacts and magic to tear down into their base components to fuel their ritual forges. Imagine a noble cast renowned for their use of powerful ritual magic, given that they are the only ones who can afford them. An epic battle between the old world and the new, the traditions, permanent items, and old magics, versus the immediate use, the newly invented, the new world fueled by the ash and supernatural dust of the old.
A colonialist setting where the ancient artifacts and natural ressources of a new world are slowly exhausted by a far away empire! Wether the players accomplish exploration and treasure hunting for wealthy patrons, themselves or to preserve the ruins of the colonized people (or side with them to attack the colonialist) it would make for fun adventures.
That's pretty darn cool!
Would feel like the Mysterious Cities of Gold, but with Kobolds! :P
Dark Sun and Eberron never appealed to me for play, but as a DM I can still plunder these settings for ideas. And I think the current MotP is a good primer for later books.
But I was really looking forward to getting pdf copies of all my books. It would be so much easier to reference them from my laptop. It's not easy to lug around a library. My little wheelie suitcase is bursting at the seams already. For the last edition, my campaign was carried around in a pair of milk crates.
I actually dread the release of any more books. But I understand the reasoning behind the 'pdf decision'.
I wonder, is an entirely digital campaign feasible? And would it interest enough people? Many seem to like the wikis.
And for those who haven't taken the digital plunge, just think, our newpapers are going bankrupt. The internet has completely changed the world of publishing. I'm amazed that WotC is still able to ship all this material.
Anyway I like the idea of the two books and one adventure per setting with support from DDI, as long as the information on DDI is done in a way so that it's easy to find, browse, and organize. Though at the moment for me it doesn't matter because they have yet to produce a setting that I want to play in. I've had enough of FR for a while (though I may eventually pick it up), and I've never liked Eberron. I would love Dark Sun....but if it requires picking up the PHB 3 and such for psionics or whatever, then maybe not. The one thing I did like about the way previous settings were done, was you only needed the core 3 books and the base setting book/box. If you have to pick up the newest PHB, DMG, and MM to supplement the campaign settign for that year, then that's really no better than having to buy a bunch of splat books for information on the setting.
I really like the PoL idea. Its innovative and refreshed roleplaying as a whole. But I guess WotC dont like the concept they invented by themselves. Or why they dont give out a REAL PoL setting and not just some modified polished up 3rd edition books?
As a newcomer to 4e I am not really emotionally involved that much in FR, Dark Sun (no way), Greyhawk, Dragonlance etc. I have bought some expensive old 2nd and 3rd edition books about some of these settings on ebay but I really am not fond of them and their use is very limited for a 4e newcomer who prefers pure PoL goodness.
Because the settings which have been the main settings of D&D all the years are not really Point of Light! They are more along traditional lines. No problem with those people which like them, but they dont portray the new cosmology which is outlined in the 4e sourcebooks correctly. Or at least they dont feel like PoL as written in the DMG etc. Eg. all the modification for FR is only that - a modification and its not enough to express the real stuff of PoL.
Eg. the whole FR setting is FULL of countries and nations, full of everything which is not what I understand of PoL. In the DMG and the previews PoL description is different. FR is only 3rd edition "whole world traditional" flair but with 4e rules.
The 3 books per setting concept is ok, but this game need really a new native 4e-only real PoL setting where EVERYTHING which is in the 2 preview books, the DMG and the 3 Lorebooks is included without having to modify, re-stat or rewrite anything.
So there is absolutely no new setting after 2010?
I really like the PoL idea. Its innovative and refreshed roleplaying as a whole. But I guess WotC dont like the concept they invented by themselves. Or why they dont give out a REAL PoL setting and not just some modified polished up 3rd edition books?
As a newcomer to 4e I am not really emotionally involved that much in FR, Dark Sun (no way), Greyhawk, Dragonlance etc. I have bought some expensive old 2nd and 3rd edition books about some of these settings on ebay but I really am not fond of them and their use is very limited for a 4e newcomer who prefers pure PoL goodness.
Because the settings which have been the main settings of D&D all the years are not really Point of Light! They are more along traditional lines. No problem with those people which like them, but they dont portray the new cosmology which is outlined in the 4e sourcebooks correctly. Or at least they dont feel like PoL as written in the DMG etc. Eg. all the modification for FR is only that - a modification and its not enough to express the real stuff of PoL.
Eg. the whole FR setting is FULL of countries and nations, full of everything which is not what I understand of PoL. In the DMG and the previews PoL description is different. FR is only 3rd edition "whole world traditional" flair but with 4e rules.
The 3 books per setting concept is ok, but this game need really a new native 4e-only real PoL setting where EVERYTHING which is in the 2 preview books, the DMG and the 3 Lorebooks is included without having to modify, re-stat or rewrite anything.
You realize you can have nations and massive empires and still have a 'Points of Light' type setting right? If you don't believe me, check out Warhammer Fantasy Role-play.
My glib answer is "Yup" because, honestly, no reply I can give you will make you jump with joy.
We can get content out faster online than in book format, and without cluttering up store shelves with campaign setting supplements that appeal and sell only to a fraction of the D&D audience. We can also present a broader range of topics and more depth in the form of standalone online articles.
I am actually glad about the organization of campaigns, but it does make me somewhat sad that you're limiting yourselves to one a year. Is there any possibility we might see a speedup, or perhaps a year where multiple smaller campaigns get released in a single book set (I bet Kara-tur, Maztica and Al-Qadim could all fit one set)?
(I bet Kara-tur, Maztica and Al-Qadim could all fit one set)?
Yeah, based on what I understand about the changes to the Forgotten Realms, the information for Maztica shouldn't take up much space.
Yeah, based on what I understand about the changes to the Forgotten Realms, the information for Maztica shouldn't take up much space.
Actually, Maztica could be interesting. It has been replaced on Toril, but that does not necessarily mean that it has ceased to exist. It might be fun if it has become some sort of displaced continent-turned-demiplane.
WotC, I'm with XunValDorl of HouseKilsek. I will not pay for DDI. But I use to get Dungeon and Dragon through the local comic shop (no game shop in my town). I was extremely angry when I found out that both magazines would no longer be in print. That was one of the few things about DnD that I could afford on a regular basis.
I sincerely hope that changes.
I am the opposite. I only bought dungeon and dragon both every so often and barely used what I found inside. I use the DDI stuff all of the time and I plunder lots of items from the dragon dungeon articles. The compedium is great and helps me as a DM get ready for a game. Different strokes I guess but the DDI is a much better product for me than the print versions were.
If they do come out with a new setting it might be a few years down the road after one or two more older settings have been "reissued". To me Eberron was 4E before there was a 4E in a lot of ways. Just my opinion on the matter.
**EDIT**Plus any setting can be "POL". I am getting sick of the term "POL". Is it a new concept for D&D? Not at all IMO.
I would have been perfectly happy to see Ebaron in 09 new setting in 2010 then the older ones.
Genuinley new material should come first before tired worn out ideas.
What about the people who don't have DDI and only use physical books?? Should we have to suffer cause we don't want to pay a monthly subscription to a table top game??
I don't have DDI, and I'm not suffering. Stop complaining so much. The game I have is complete and wonderful.
My glib answer is "Yup" because, honestly, no reply I can give you will make you jump with joy.
We can get content out faster online than in book format, and without cluttering up store shelves with campaign setting supplements that appeal and sell only to a fraction of the D&D audience. We can also present a broader range of topics and more depth in the form of standalone online articles.
Well, since you're here, let me ask you this-
I know several settings were on the possibilities list, but two in particular I'd like to see come back: Ravenloft as an actual setting with a source book, and Mystara, which got absolutely no attention during 3rd edition. What are the odds of seeing either of those return? Would a petition to revive Mystara help?
Well, since you're here, let me ask you this-
I know several settings were on the possibilities list, but two in particular I'd like to see come back: Ravenloft as an actual setting with a source book, and Mystara, which got absolutely no attention during 3rd edition. What are the odds of seeing either of those return? Would a petition to revive Mystara help?
Hey get in line I asked questions first, jk :P
Even if we can't get answers (I doubt we will since want to have some secrets, etc.) it would be nice to here how WoTC goes about deciding what settings to build. Perhaps even a bit behind their building process.
I will ask until the day I die or until the situation changes:
Will you please get rid of the useless dark border at the top of the PDFs? I'm begging you, seriously! I like to print articles to read, but I don't want to be paying the rent for my local office supply store! Ink is expensive!!! Especially for us private end-users!!! Pictures? Fine, appreciated even. But pleasepleaseplease replace that border with something less taxing on the average person's printer and pocketbook!
Hey Shiftkitty,
We are currently exploring a page layout that removes the color banner from the top of feature articles, replacing it with something more printer-friendly. (Yeah, it's finally made it onto our priority list.) Thank-you for keeping it on our radar.
Chris
Hey Shiftkitty,
We are currently exploring a page layout that removes the color banner from the top of feature articles, replacing it with something more printer-friendly. (Yeah, it's finally made it onto our priority list.) Thank-you for keeping it on our radar.
Chris
Thank the maker! That's great news.
WotC, I'm with XunValDorl of HouseKilsek. I will not pay for DDI. But I use to get Dungeon and Dragon through the local comic shop (no game shop in my town). I was extremely angry when I found out that both magazines would no longer be in print. That was one of the few things about DnD that I could afford on a regular basis.
I sincerely hope that changes.
I don't expect it to change in my lifetime.
Even before the current economic crisis, print magazines were dying on the vine. It's a poor business — particularly now. Anyone who tells you different is ill-informed, possibly even dumb.
Online content is cheaper to produce than print content (no print vendors, no warehousing, no returns, etc.) AND it gets more eyeballs. A lot more eyeballs. Thousands upon thousands more eyeballs. And it's a more flexible, versatile, and timely format than print.
That said, I understand how cool it is to actually hold something tangible in your hands and flip through it. That's why we're continuing to produce the monthly PDF compilations and the annual hardcover compilations (such as the Dragon Annual releasing this fall).
Chris
Could even be run as a PDF or print on demand sell straight from the website to keep overhead low.
Is this something people wanting a physical product would be interested in?
I know several settings were on the possibilities list, but two in particular I'd like to see come back: Ravenloft as an actual setting with a source book, and Mystara, which got absolutely no attention during 3rd edition. What are the odds of seeing either of those return? Would a petition to revive Mystara help?
A petition isn't likely to resurrect Mystara, I'm afraid. What Mystara lacks is a real hook that sets it apart from generic D&D and other specific D&D settings. (I've always considered Hollow World a more intriguing setting for exactly this reason.)
On the other hand, Ravenloft has a hook (Gothic horror fantasy) that no other D&D setting treads on, which is something worth exploring when the time is right.
Chris
A petition isn't likely to resurrect Mystara, I'm afraid. What Mystara lacks is a real hook that sets it apart from generic D&D and other specific D&D settings. (I've always considered Hollow World a more intriguing setting for exactly this reason.)
On the other hand, Ravenloft has a hook (Gothic horror fantasy) that no other D&D setting treads on, which is something worth exploring when the time is right.
Chris
Sigh any chance of something actually new? If I want one of the old settings I can update it myself. I want something genuinley new and interesting. Frankly I dont see the atraction for the same settings every eddition doesnt it get old?
Sigh any chance of something actually new? If I want one of the old settings I can update it myself. I want something genuinley new and interesting. Frankly I dont see the atraction for the same settings every eddition doesnt it get old?
We are planning to do new stuff as well as resurrect some "classic" stuff. Whenever we decide to do something new, it takes time to get the ball rolling because we're essentially building an entirely new intellectual property from scratch.
We resurrect old campaign settings for more than just nostalgia reasons. We do it to keep those worlds and intellectual properties alive and active. Names like "Ravenloft" and "Dark Sun" and "Dragonlance" mean a lot to Wizards and to a great many other people. In most cases, it would be a shame to let them simply wither and die. Just like Disney animated movies, we need to pull them out of the vault and dust them off once in a while.
We are planning to do new stuff as well as resurrect some "classic" stuff. Whenever we decide to do something new, it takes time to get the ball rolling because we're essentially building an entirely new intellectual property from scratch.
We resurrect old campaign settings for more than just nostalgia reasons. We do it to keep those worlds and intellectual properties alive and active. Names like "Ravenloft" and "Dark Sun" and "Dragonlance" mean a lot to Wizards and to a great many other people. In most cases, it would be a shame to let them simply wither and die. Just like Disney animated movies, we need to pull them out of the vault and dust them off once in a while.
Ravenloft, Darksun I kinda like though ravenloft players died way too often. Dragonlance Id be jumping for joy if it was allowed to die. the first three books were okay reads but as a setting it failed. Worsed setting other than greyhawk ever designed.
Id personally rather see new settings first but thats just me. I liked Ebaron thought it was a fresh new take on a fantasy world. More truly unique worlds are what Id like to see.
We are planning to do new stuff as well as resurrect some "classic" stuff. Whenever we decide to do something new, it takes time to get the ball rolling because we're essentially building an entirely new intellectual property from scratch.
We resurrect old campaign settings for more than just nostalgia reasons. We do it to keep those worlds and intellectual properties alive and active. Names like "Ravenloft" and "Dark Sun" and "Dragonlance" mean a lot to Wizards and to a great many other people. In most cases, it would be a shame to let them simply wither and die. Just like Disney animated movies, we need to pull them out of the vault and dust them off once in a while.
If you guys do resurrect Dark Sun, I hope it's a far cry better than before. I suspect it will be, because the reworkings of other factors have been significant improvements, IMO. When Dark Sun came out, I was actually living in a desert. Nothing nice and metropolitan, like Phoenix, I was out in the middle of nowhere where it was hot as hell and you had to cross a spanse of open wilderness from my house to get to the school/store/anywhere. Dark Sun was so against my experiences of living in a dry, hot, dusty, climate that I couldn't suspend my belief enough to get into it. It was like "People living in arid climes do this...", and my friends and I were more like "Dude, we so totally don't. We do this..." Sigh! I have optimism, though. As I said, 4e has reworked things that used to not sit well with me and made them quite palatable to my game.
It would be nice to here how WoTC goes about deciding what settings to build. Perhaps even a bit behind their building process.
Now THAT'S a multi-layered conversation that usually starts with us asking a bunch of questions and doing some research. Some questions that spring to mind whenever someone says the words "campaign setting" to me:
1. Is there a business need or opportunity for a new setting or a reincarnated old setting?
2. Where is popular culture heading? Can we create a setting that isn't irrelevant one or two years from now?
3. Are there any non-active settings that we're revitalizing in other arenas (digital games, novels, Hollywood, etc.)?
4. Is there an important niche that a new or old setting can fill?
5. Is there a particular setting that a significant number of D&D players want to see resurrected or reincarnated?
6. Is there a setting that we can turn into a $X million sub-brand with multiple revenue streams?
7. Can we design a setting that doesn't fracture the D&D audience into a dozen squabbling sects that utterly loathe one another (a la TSR circa 1997)?
Chris
Number 4 is the one I am most glad to see. This is exactly what I like to see with settings, is that they fit a niche. I really, really hope you guys stay away from kitchen-sink settings where it includes EVERYTHING and... the kitchen sink. Stuff like Dark Sun is definitely what I am hoping for.
We are planning to do new stuff...
*crosses fingers for full on steampunk setting*
A petition isn't likely to resurrect Mystara, I'm afraid. What Mystara lacks is a real hook that sets it apart from generic D&D and other specific D&D settings. (I've always considered Hollow World a more intriguing setting for exactly this reason.)
On the other hand, Ravenloft has a hook (Gothic horror fantasy) that no other D&D setting treads on, which is something worth exploring when the time is right.
Chris
Fair enough. Mystara was pretty generic, when you get right down to it, so I expected that.
But the fact that Ravenloft might get some attention makes me happy.
*crosses fingers for full on steampunk setting*
*Nods and Drools* Having a full Steampunk setting, or at least a builder book for a Steampunk homebrew be great.
*Nods and Drools* Having a full Steampunk setting, or at least a builder book for a Steampunk homebrew be great.
A steam punk setting would be awsome.
*crosses fingers for full on steampunk setting*
Same here. I'd love to see a collaboration between the 4th edition team and the folks at Iron Kingdoms.
D&D + Mechs = WIN
Same here. I'd love to see a collaboration between the 4th edition team and the folks at Iron Kingdoms.
D&D + Mechs = WIN
Hopefully also firearms and all other sorts of gunpowder/or steampowered weapons. If they don't appear in AV2, 3, etc. my best bet would be a setting or DDI article.
Hopefully also firearms and all other sorts of gunpowder/or steampowered weapons. If they don't appear in AV2, 3, etc. my best bet would be a setting or DDI article.
Could a ddi article actually be enough for those sorts of rules? Id love to see a fully fleshed out setting with those rules.
Could a ddi article actually be enough for those sorts of rules? Id love to see a fully fleshed out setting with those rules.
For just weaponry I would say so. They could even divide it up into different segments. One could be oriented around the actual weapons another the PC capabilities: feats, paragon paths, etc.
Now THAT'S a multi-layered conversation that usually starts with us asking a bunch of questions and doing some research. Some questions that spring to mind whenever someone says the words "campaign setting" to me:
1. Is there a business need or opportunity for a new setting or a reincarnated old setting?
Maybe yes, because you could sell the d&d fans a whole line of books other than a variation of "PHB7"? (which I do not really need - even the PHB2 is not really interesting for me and I doubt I will buy another 300p of new 4e rules. But what I would buy are lore books like the manual of the planes, adventures and a new setting specifically designed for 4e)
2. Where is popular culture heading? Can we create a setting that isn't irrelevant one or two years from now?
I would not create a setting which has a very strong overarching theme like Dark Sun or Ravenloft. In some years it will be out of fashion and goes the way of the dodo and is not interesting anymore. I would create a (initally) "normal" setting in the way of the wonderful nenthir valley where the modules are the center and then working from this a little bit outward (but not too much) in order to serve those players which want to have a little bit more than just 1 valley or a single lost empire as their background. But do as you described in the PoL idea. The settings which are available NOW are NOT PoL because they contain already too many cities, nations and overall canon.
The names are here mentioned in the modules. (nenthir, Nerul, Phaervorul the drow city etc.) Why not taking all this lore and constructing something more coherent than what it is now? But please no whole world complex, just some simple connected points. The whole cosmology has been simplified for 4e (in a good appealing way) why not the same treatment for the material plane?
4. Is there an important niche that a new or old setting can fill?
An old one? I dont think so. But a new one. Yes. This niche are new 4e players and converts from other system which dont have access to 3rd ed. material and also those who dont like to play in traditional "full service" non-PoL settings with tenthousand pages of old material which got a half-hearted 4e patch, like FR.
5. Is there a particular setting that a significant number of D&D players want to see resurrected or reincarnated?
I dont know. If you look at the forums nearly everybody obviously wants to play in Dark Sun which they consider suddenly to be an archetypical PoL setting? :D
7. Can we design a setting that doesn't fracture the D&D audience into a dozen squabbling sects that utterly loathe one another (a la TSR circa 1997)?
Definately. But not if you release one patch for old setting material per year. This leads inevitably to fracturing of the fanbase. 2012 you have the fractures again. The best would be to have 1 single setting for 4e. And this setting should be a new one which is extra designed for it.
I am not against the catering of Eberron/FR fans, if they think they can only play 4e in "their" beloved setting. They should get their setting book per year, why not, if it earns some money for Wotc?
But what is with us others which like the basic concept of PoL but dont have yet a world where this concept is reality? Why dont we also get 1 or 2 books with a true PoL world where every single one of the default gods is integrated on from the beginning? Where the new cosmology is standard? Where are no catastrophic events like mystras death are necessary to give at least a taint of PoL feeling? At the moment we tinkering around with our own homemade PoL world designs and use names we have learned in the modules (like nanthir and nerul) in it. But such a doityourself world can never be as good as a professional one.
I would not create a setting which has a very strong overarching theme like Dark Sun or Ravenloft. In some years it will be out of fashion and goes the way of the dodo and is not interesting anymore. I would create a (initally) "normal" setting in the way of the wonderful nenthir valley where the modules are the center and then working from this a little bit outward (but not too much) in order to serve those players which want to have a little bit more than just 1 valley or a single lost empire as their background.
Considering how long ago those settings were made, this is a laughable concept.
But do as you described in the PoL idea. The settings which are available NOW are NOT PoL because they contain already too many cities, nations and overall canon.
I would definitely consider FR, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, etc. to be PoL.
I would definitely consider FR, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, etc. to be PoL.
In fact the only way to claim that Ravenloft or Dark Sun aren't a Points of Light settings is to argue that the civilized areas are too dangerous for them to be Lights in the Darkness. ;)
A petition isn't likely to resurrect Mystara, I'm afraid. What Mystara lacks is a real hook that sets it apart from generic D&D and other specific D&D settings. (I've always considered Hollow World a more intriguing setting for exactly this reason.)
Nurtz. Mystara was my first setting not made by my DM or myself that I explored. I miss it. Hollow World too, in a way. However, part of the Hollow World hook IS tied to Mystara, as Hollow World was the 'Civilization Preserve' of the Mystaran Gods. All tied together in the wonderful box set Wrath of the Immortals.
Any chance of maybe at least seeing some Mystara shorts in Dragon? Or even just a revisit of the Thunder Rift regional module? That was another good PoL style area from the Cyclopedia days...
- Hollow Earth
- Mediums
- Aether (if we don't get Spelljammer a good semi-replacement here)
- Victorian Horror/Sci-Fi: Invisible Man, Hyde, Time Machine, etc.
Plus much more.
Because the settings which have been the main settings of D&D all the years are not really Point of Light! They are more along traditional lines. No problem with those people which like them, but they dont portray the new cosmology which is outlined in the 4e sourcebooks correctly. Or at least they dont feel like PoL as written in the DMG etc.
Sorry, but that is factually wrong. Ravenloft and Dark Sun epitomized PoL roughly a decade and a half before WotC ever coined the term. It can be argued that Birthright, and to a lesser extent Dragonlance and Spelljammer were also PoL thematic.
And speaking of Birthright, Mr. Perkins, at this point in time it seems pretty much a foregone conclusion that if not 2010 then at least eventually Dark Sun and Dragonlance are getting the 4e treatment. But can you tell us whether or not Birthright is in consideration as well?
IMO, I think it would most definitely bring something new to the 4e table, between mass combat rules, political rules, running a kingdom, the whole godly bloodline thing that could be done similar to Spell Scars, and even naval combat rules and trade rules. And IMO it was most definitely not a generic setting like Mystara (much as I enjoyed it) was.
And speaking of Birthright, . . . at this point in time it seems pretty much a foregone conclusion that if not 2010 then at least eventually Dark Sun and Dragonlance are getting the 4e treatment. But can you tell us whether or not Birthright is in consideration as well?
We're ruling out nothing.
However, whether we treat a past setting as a full-blown campaign setting or simply absorb its best concepts or qualities into a core D&D book would be a topic of debate. Taking Birthright as an example, we could put the mechanics for leading armies, building strongholds, and ruling kingdoms into a future DMG. I'm not saying we would do that, but if we did, would we need a Birthright campaign setting reboot? Hmm.
But the fact that Ravenloft might get some attention makes me happy.
Something to whet that appetite . . .
Dragon magazine has a new semi-regular feature called "Domains of Dread." Each article showcases a different domain. We've only done one so far (click here to see it), but another one is coming soon.
For more information on Domains of Dread in 4E, check out the Shadowfell chapter of Manual of the Planes.
Chris
How many cataclysms can one setting have?
Five.
The settings which are available NOW are NOT PoL because they contain already too many cities, nations and overall canon.
*Sigh*
Either you somehow missed my last post, or you willfully ignored it. So I will reiterate what I said previously, though I do hate having to repeat myself, but I will elaborate a bit more this time.
Your arguement about PoL in this context fails. Something is not PoL because of lack of large cities, nations etc. It is an overall theme that can be carried in any setting if done right. Again take a look at Warhammer Fantasy if you want a good example of PoL with big nations and huge cities.
So guess what? The settings that are out now can be and are PoL. Having just read through the FR stuff (borrowed from a friend), it's obvious that FR has definitly taken the PoL view to heart.
We're ruling out nothing.
However, whether we treat a past setting as a full-blown campaign setting or simply absorb its best concepts or qualities into a core D&D book would be a topic of debate. Taking Birthright as an example, we could put the mechanics for leading armies, building strongholds, and ruling kingdoms into a future DMG. I'm not saying we would do that, but if we did, would we need a Birthright campaign setting reboot? Hmm.
Awww. I could live with the rules being in a DMG, and just using the old fluff by itself, but I'd prefer the setting get an update. Oh well, if necessary I'll take what I can get.
Something to whet that appetite . . .
Dragon magazine has a new semi-regular feature called "Domains of Dread." Each article showcases a different domain. We've only done one so far (click here to see it), but another one is coming soon.
For more information on Domains of Dread in 4E, check out the Shadowfell chapter of Manual of the Planes.
Chris
So any other settings that you can possibly tease us with? Any chance of Birthright being redone?
Five.
*counts on his hand*
Well the First Cataclysm was what with the dropping of the meteor on the Kingpriest
The second was the summer of Chaos....
Does the whole Alien Dragon Overlords thing count?
The War of Souls could count as another one....
Damnit that means Krynn has at least one left!
*counts on his hand*
Well the First Cataclysm was what with the dropping of the meteor on the Kingpriest
The second was the summer of Chaos....
Does the whole Alien Dragon Overlords thing count?
The War of Souls could count as another one....
Damnit that means Krynn has at least one left!
I never thought about it really, but in DL we have the age of myth, the age of dreams, the age of might, and....the age of cataclysms??
I've probably missed/mis-named an age, but you get my drift. Dragonlances "hook" seems to be cataclysms.....
Would the annual have the full issues of both magazines or just the best articles of Dragon?
As far as a new setting, I like the idea of either a stone age/ ice age one or a rennaisance setting with high magic and guns.
I would like to see new stuff, but please I beg of you, if you bring back Dragonlance don't blow it up again in the updating... How many cataclysms can one setting have?
Please no. Leave out the setting that ruined small races, and made other races into the worse stereo types possible.
And the good gods that appernetly suck and cannot do anything oh look tahkissis moved the planet we are powerless dur. . Id rather see something completley knew with knew fluff.
Either a steam punk or an island type setting would be pretty cool, or maybe a setting thats a new world with empires apearing for the first time without lots of ruins but lots of developing city states and the like a world without a lot of history because its people are just discovering civilization for the first time.
Not to derail this thread any more that it has, I have one question on the annual and a statement.
Would the annual have the full issues of both magazines or just the best articles of Dragon?
As far as a new setting, I like the idea of either a stone age/ ice age one or a rennaisance setting with high magic and guns.
I believe the annual has been described as a "best of" book.
Please no. Leave out the setting that ruined small races, and made other races into the worse stereo types possible.
And the good gods that appernetly suck and cannot do anything oh look tahkissis moved the planet we are powerless dur. . Id rather see something completley knew with knew fluff.
Either a steam punk or an island type setting would be pretty cool, or maybe a setting thats a new world with empires apearing for the first time without lots of ruins but lots of developing city states and the like a world without a lot of history because its people are just discovering civilization for the first time.
I dunno, I think DL had the best presentation of Minotaurs, prior to Warcraft 3/WoW ("Tauren"
).But I could totally get behind an Island Nations style setting.
I dunno, I think DL had the best presentation of Minotaurs, prior to Warcraft 3/WoW ("Tauren"
But I could totally get behind an Island Nations style setting.
Fine but they had the worse gnomes, halflings, elves and half elves.
Which is awesome.
Could we maybe get a 4e update of X1 then? That would be a great general adventure book for any setting for mid to high heroic levels and maybe even a few lower paragon levels...
This got ignored way back up top, but I really, really, really hope that any attempts to rerelease old settings are complete and utter reboots of the settings. Take what's memorable about the setting and use that, and don't just simply continue the tired old metaplots from decades of out-of-print splatbooks.
*Nods* While I feel the Spellplague made FR much better. I think overall reboots are better then continuing the setting through time.
Fine but they had the worse gnomes, halflings, elves and half elves.
I don't think their elves & half-elves were all that different/worse than Forgotten Realms. The societies were largely the same, if a bit more xenophobic.
Actually, FR might be worse, because while DL had high, grey, wood, and 2 types of shapshifting aquatic elves, pre-4e FR had high, grey, wood, wild, aquatic, the Sauhaugin mutants that looked just like aquatic elves, drow, avariel (winged elves), Lythari (elves that could shapeshift into wolves), Fey'ri (elf-tieflings), and probably more that I'm forgetting.
Oh, don't forget - not only did Dragonlance give us Kender, it also gave us the half-kender, and the gully dwarf. ;)
I don't think their elves & half-elves were all that different/worse than Forgotten Realms. The societies were largely the same, if a bit more xenophobic.
Actually, FR might be worse, because while DL had high, grey, wood, and 2 types of shapshifting aquatic elves, pre-4e FR had high, grey, wood, wild, aquatic, the Sauhaugin mutants that looked just like aquatic elves, drow, avariel (winged elves), Lythari (elves that could shapeshift into wolves), Fey'ri (elf-tieflings), and probably more that I'm forgetting.
Oh, don't forget - not only did Dragonlance give us Kender, it also gave us the half-kender, and the gully dwarf. ;)
Gully dwarves are so horrid that i forget about them. It was their xenaphobia that I didnt like. A dm had to twist arms to get a party with multi races to work together due to the racial hatreds.
Gully dwarves are so horrid that i forget about them. It was their xenaphobia that I didnt like. A dm had to twist arms to get a party with multi races to work together due to the racial hatreds.
See, that's not the fault of Dragonlance though - that's the fault of the players deciding that elven xenophobia (that is always overcome when necessary in the books/adventures) was an excuse for acting like jerks.
Despite ALL that... I still have a soft spot for the old setting.
At least there aren't more than two problems with it... no more than two. (Gully dwarf humor)
As for the OP, outside of my PoL comments to you, I want to also point out that some of the older settings haven't been revamped in quite a while, and some of us would like to see that revamp done. Why does only FR and Eberron get the love? Why not re-explore some of the settings that haven't seen daylight in a while?
For new settings, I have to disagree with what people are asking for and say no steampunk, please. Steampunk is not D&D nor is it high fantasy. If I want to play steampunk, I'll go play a game that is designed and based around steampunk, not one based around high fantasy adventure. Eberrron was close enough with its magipunk
(sorry couldn't resist the jab :P ). I'd rather see something akin to Red Steel (which was a high fantasy swashbuckling setting) or something done for a new campaign setting. New races, new cultures, new classes, new ways of doing high fantasy entirely (that isn't magipunk Final Fantasy stuff). Maybe an entire setting that is devoted to an Arabic/Indian type world where elemental magic is strong and all kinds of wierd things can happen? Or something more gritty and more down to earth, like a low-magic setting that has the look and feel of the Conan books. Just some thoughts there. There are so many different things you can do with the high fantasy genre.
Its a bit of a shame but WotC has chosen to go with the safest bet instead of trying something edgy and different. The worst part is that i fear that their "everything including Dragon is core" philosophy means that we may never even see optional firearm or steampunk rules in Dragon because doing so would automatically make them legal in LFR as well as part of the core identity of DnD. "Everything is core" is a great idea in that it breaks down the conservative mindset of some prohibitive DMs but its a bit of a bummer that it means that we are much less likely to see any releases that really break the generic DnD mold.
Well in a podcast they did state that they could very well see firearms being introduced possibly in the form of Dragon articles.
From what i recall, their statements were something like "if we were going to design rules for firearms, we could probably need to consider X." as a sort insight into how they design weapons in general. It didn't really sound to me like they were hinting that firearm rules were a likely possibility.
I rather think, WotC makes good games AND additionally want to sell those books to us. What do they want to sell us after releasing PHB 3 and Metallic Dragons after 2010? Maybe Metallic Dragons II and PHB4? No I think they do something better.
Actually, its a sound business model.
Every year WotC will give us the following:
A Player's Handbook
A Dungeon Master's Guide
A Monster Manual
A Campaign Setting Guide
A Campaign Player's Guide
An Adventurer's Vault
3 '___ Power' books
A Draconomicon
A Book detailing common/cool enemies that follow a theme (undead, Aberrations, etc.)
That's 11 set books each and every year. It gives the design folks a good framework and keeps them honest and on track. Plus, each book is something that should appeal to at least 1 person per group, so WotC is pleased. Plus, even if WotC eliminated a single '___ Power' book and the Draconomicon, they still have books like Dungeon Delve, Dragon Compendium and a whole lot of adventures to fill in the empty spaces. I rather like this model since I know what WotC's general product line will be year to year (unlike 3.x which tended to be much more chaotic).
As most of you know, our philosophy regarding campaign settings is to provide three print books (a campaign guide, a player's guide, and a published adventure) and then support the campaign settings exclusively on D&D Insider. Starting in May, we will have no fewer than one 4E Forgotten Realms article every month, to which we'll add a spankin'-new column by Ed Greenwood. When Eberron launches, it'll get the same amount of monthly love — not from Ed, tho'. :D
We're ALSO trying to pay attention to what y'all like/dislike about this philosophy we've adopted, and we're likely to make some course corrections along the way.
Well I'm fairly adamant that I dislike the policy as a whole. Now this isn't to say I want to go back to 3.5 days with 2 or 3 setting supplements a year (heck no!) but I would definitely like 1, just 1, extra book each year. There is so much glossed over in the Campaign Guides that even giving us 1 extra book a year surly would not make the world feel cramped to any large degree. I would cite Eberron, with all its 3.5 supplements, never once felt restrictive or overcrowded. Since 4E has borrowed much from Eberron's design philosophy I'm sure you guys could pull it off!
but I would like to see them bring back Birthright, at some point or other. It was a cool concept that would work even better with the current system then it did under 2e.
This.
I loved the idea of tying leaders to the land they govern, making the magic of the land inversely bound to its civilization development, and the idea of not a gorgon but *The Gorgon*.
There is a level of political intrigue, backstabbing, uneasy alliances, and overall epicness to me that no other campaign world has given me. Players can not only influence nations, but in some circumstances control them directly.
Now I'm going to have to dig out my old bin and see if I can find my old Birthright stuff for some nostalgic reading.
A Book detailing common/cool enemies that follow a theme (undead, abortions, etc.)
I don't think I want to play in your games.
I don't think I want to play in your games.
That's what I get for typing too quickly and relying on the first spell check correction... Personally, my favorite setting of all time is Eberron, so obviously I'm excited about that. I'm also interested in someday finally meeting some of these settings which existed in D&D prior to me playing it, such as Dark Sun or Planescape.
As for new settings, I'm quite curious about Rich Burlew's setting. (For those of you who don't know, Mr Burlew -- aka: the creator of Order of the Stick -- was a runner-up in the campaign setting contest that resulted in Keith Baker's Eberron setting. While Eberron got published, Rich's setting is currently owned by WotC but protected by an NDA; thus, I'd like to see it published so that I can see what it's about. Incidentally, in case anyone is wondering, I believe that he wrote this setting well before he began writing OotS.)
I don't think I want to play in your games.
I saw that too, and thought he was just being funny! :P
Incidentally, in case anyone is wondering, I believe that he wrote this setting well before he began writing OotS.)
Indeed it was. The GiantITP site was created to 'cash in' on his new found fame. While OOTS was made to generate page views, and obviously soon became the central focus of the site
Fef. OOTS article on Wikipedia.
I saw that too, and thought he was just being funny! :P
It is quite funny, in a dark and aberrant way... :P
If there's one notable theme in 4e, it's that the PCs are incredibly powerful, but on a smaller scale then we might be used to. They can decimate armies, certainly, but their reach only extends so far, no longer casting mile-wide storms or wishing away entire forces. Between this feature and the minion mechanic, it would be awesome to see larger scale battles as a major part of campaign settings, one which give the DM a system or two for deciding mass conflict based on smaller scale PC actions.
If nothing else, I want to see ritual based warfare where commanding officers lead their troops in concert to empower enormous Warweirds of devastation and calamity. Where an squad of archers can go toe to toe with artillery magi, where druids lead the tribe to call twisting tornadoes against the foul necrotic army, where two sides of divine casters engage in a true test of faith; blasting the &*%@ out of each other.
Fine but they had the worse gnomes, halflings, elves and half elves.
Considering Kinder are the model for the modern Halfling, I think you're a little off on that... and the DL elves are pretty much a straight lift from Tolkien overall.
Honestly, you want to go on about worse races, you should be looking at Dark Sun, not Dragonlance. Even in spite the hordes of DS fans.
What if they did a political, Victorian, reasonably advanced setting based around nations, organizations, and other affiliations in a Birthright-ish tone? A progressive world based around magic, one in which gunpowder simply doesn't exist on a chemical level, and nationalism is the key to true power? One in which you could simply adventure across the globe, or travel in the name of a certain power, or lead your own coalition to glory through the masses?
We already have that, it's called Eberron! ;)
And that's the problem. The only real difference is that the PCs aren't god-incarnates.
WotC is looking for different worlds that contrast - Eberron with its pulpy-noir feel, FR with its massive history and traditional feel, Dark Sun with its dystopian desert themes, Ravenloft with its gothic horror. What you described would be cool but can already be attained with minor edits to other worlds. Perhaps I missed something though.Keeping in line with this concept, I'd posit that a non-western setting would epitomize 'different.' Of course the problem is that the setting can't simply be 'Here's Feudal Japan on a continent!' Just as 'western fantasy' is an amalgamation of desperate European and near-Eastern traditions, so too should any non-western setting. Essentially it should feel as if it draws from the traditions of a given geographic area but is not a direct port with the names filed off.
We already have that, it's called Eberron! ;)
:embarrass
And that, ladies and gentleman, is what we refer to as "not thinking before I post."
It happens more often than I'd like to admit.
Keeping in line with this concept, I'd posits that a non-western setting would epitomize 'different.' Of course the problem is that it can't simply be 'Here's Feudal Japan on a continent!' Just as 'western fantasy' is an amalgamation of desperate European and near-Eastern traditions, so too should any non-western setting. Essentially it should feel as if it draws from the traditions of a given geographic area but is not a direct port with the names filed off.
I agree I think if one was to make a just Eastern-fantasy one with no unique elements to make it, its own. It be better as a single book focused on that element.
You could still have a Eastern setting but as you said there be something more to it.
I wouldn't mind seeing a "Opposite-Shadowrun". In that Cyberpunk is fitting into fantasy, not otherway around. This is semi-Eberron-esque but could go off in its own direction. You could have stuff like; ley-line internet, illusion holograms, mecha, powered suits, AI (brain in jar, a trapped spirit), etc.
*Thinks for a second* Lol, the majority of the settings/setting builder books I want to see deal with some facet of technology/science; Steampunk, Pseudoscience, Cyberpunk in Fantasy. I obviously have a one track mind :P
Honestly, I'd love to see Darksun come back, and a bunch of entirely new and equally unique settings also. But I'm sure instead we'll probably get a bunch of crap traditional fantasy and Tolkien-esque stupidity.
I like to keep my expectations low, it leads to more pleasant surprises.
Don't get me started on cyberpunk, I love that more than steampunk!
Ugh, it is hard for me to decide between the two for me. So I cheap out and say I love both evenly. If a person could transport me to either one I would die of old age before I decided on one.
:embarrass
And that, ladies and gentleman, is what we refer to as "not thinking before I post."
It happens more often than I'd like to admit.
Hehe, at least your 'not thinking' mistake sounded cool and fun!
I was kind of inspired by "The War of the Burning Sky" (I think Goodman Games has that one now), where the general setting was left vague enough that you could fit it on any peninsula with a natural boundary that forced the nations involved to be tucked in tightly around one another. It got me to thinking about how geography and other uncontrollable factors influenced the development of towns that I had lived in or visited, and I think it would make a handy product for DMs with limited time.
Something I was thinking might be useful is, oh, I don't know what you'd call it, maybe a "citybook" or something. Packaged similar to the modules, it would contain one booklet to describe a city, it's general history, power structure, guilds, groups and cabals, major businesses and NPCs, etc., and have a poster map or two of major areas. Also inside the booklet would be hooks, one or two for the first level or two of each tier. The city inside would be generic enough to drop into any setting. Need a riverside town? Pick up, say, "PoL1: Riverwhip". Looking for a small mountain village? "PoL2: Paline's Pass". A town teetering on the brink of becoming a ghost town? "PoL3: Dead Dog". The city or village would have a brief description telling the potential buyer where such a place might be set. "Paline's Pass can be placed in any alpine setting near a trade route." "Riverwhip can be located at any bend in a river." "Dead Dog can be situated in any flat, arid land far from main travel routes."
Epic. Metal. Awesome. Please do this.
Especially if it further fleshes-out the Nentir Vale.
Five.
Bizarre, I thought it was 42....
Thanks for posting and keeping us up to date on things...
The Hollywood refrence certainly caught my eye - please don't let more people do cheap/bad movies (first D&D movie, the dragonlance fiasco....).
Worlds such as FR that have a living campaign only need 1 Dragon article a month and 1 Dungeon adventure every once in a while. While take Dragonlance for example a big 2-3 issues article for Dragonlance in Dungeon/Dragon would be great. You have your player magazine Dragon, and your DM mag zine Dungeon. Campaign guide stuff would go in Dungeon and player info would go in Dragon. Then all that mechanics for play get updates into the D&D Compendium and the Character Generator. If there is a big increase in DDI membership they could release those 'world' article in Dragon/Dungeon Compendiums and if they do really well they could make a hardback version of the worlds in the Player's Guide/ Campaign Guide for purchase. This way WotC doesn't release a old dead world that should have stayed dead...and lose the shirt off their back.
That's my opinion I see DDI as the vehicle to bring back tons of revised and update content to the players in a less costly fashion that could have ever been done in prior editions.
--
Thanks and always good gaming,
~Matt Butler
Champions of the Realms Event Organizer
Champions of the Realms Yahoo Group- Indianapolis, IN
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/championsoftherealms/
Champions of the Realms Warhorn Site
http://www.warhorn.org/ChampionsOfTheRealms/
As most of you know, our philosophy regarding campaign settings is to provide three print books (a campaign guide, a player's guide, and a published adventure) and then support the campaign settings exclusively on D&D Insider. Starting in May, we will have no fewer than one 4E Forgotten Realms article every month, to which we'll add a spankin'-new column by Ed Greenwood. When Eberron launches, it'll get the same amount of monthly love — not from Ed, tho'. :D
We're ALSO trying to pay attention to what y'all like/dislike about this philosophy we've adopted, and we're likely to make some course corrections along the way.
This sounds very good. I hope, however, that you will take advantage of the PDF format, and actually fix mistakes and problems found in the published material. As I noted on another thread, Rescue at Rivenroar was published nearly a year ago and hasn't been fixed since, although it contains countless errors. It makes a bad impression; especially as it's available for free download.
So far it seems to me that the PDF material is not getting the same attention editing-wise as what the old printed material had gotten. It's as if the writers and editors are saying "ah, it's in PDF format - we can always fix it later", but in reality they rarely do.
I'm eagerly waiting the printed Dragon compilation, and hope it gets a lot of love from the editors
And that's the problem. The only real difference is that the PCs aren't god-incarnates.
And that's why I wonder how successful a brand-spanking new campaign setting would be. Just about every angle to fantasy RPGing seems to be covered by one of WotC's pre-existing IPs. Campaigns involving pervasive technology seems to be the only gap (and even then, one could achieve it by cranking Eberron to 11).
I think if WotC wants a new campaign setting to suceed, it needs an unique voice to it. Greyhawk had Gygax. FR has Greenwood. Eberron has Baker. Dragonlance has Hickman. Planescape had DeTerlizzi. Dark Sun had Brom. Its no coincidence that these creative people rarely play in each other's sandbox. They have destinctive qualities that made or defined the setting they're best known for. Fans of a campaign setting look for that feel that certain authors instill into the setting. A Brom picture would look out of place in Dragonlance, as Greenwood's text would be out of place in Eberron.
I can't think of anyone in WotC's stalls that has that kind of voice that you could hang a new setting on. Robert J. Schwalb is the best I can think of: he has an eerie tone to his work, and always manages to grab my attention.
Don't get me started on cyberpunk, I love that more than steampunk!
Classic cyberpunk characters were marginalized, alienated loners who lived on the edge of society in generally dystopic futures where daily life was impacted by rapid technological change, an ubiquitous datasphere of computerized information, and invasive modification of the human body.
...........
...............
.......................Hmm.
No one knows exactly when it began. Some call it a breakthrough, a magnificent result of progress. Others herald it as proof of the divine, an apotheosis granted by the heavens. Some decree it an abomination, a force that heralds the destruction of society, the decimation of tradition, the harbinger of the end. A few speculate on the possibility of natural phenomena, a shifting cycle that has swung in a new direction. But whatever it is, it has changed the world.
It started small. Anyone in the old days could tell you about magic, fools who spent nearly a century developing it, cultivating it, all so they could barely manage to move a cup of coffee. Age-old rituals that could send a single message a hundred miles, but required components expensive enough to fund a courier network for a month. Miracle cures and enchanted elixirs they were not, merely small sympathies of natural resonances too inefficient for practical use.
But then it grew.
It grew in beneath our notice. Limits were slowly broken, the impossible became the improbable, the improbable became the frequent. Little things, at first. Records being broken, rebroken. Magi obtaining their ranks at younger ages, becoming stronger. Rumors of miracles and monsters, of fantastic feats and fearsome fiends from faraway lands.
It grew in our children. Infants, adolescents, young adults began exhibiting....eccentricities. Many families tried to hide them away, suppress their strangeness, teach them to get along without it. A few outed individuals were outcasts, loners with ability they did not understand. But their numbers grew, and as the generations progressed, more and more exhibited the signs.
It grew in our hearts. Suddenly, all around us, was power. And power takes root, it twists inside you, it makes you rely on it, ache for it. Warriors and wizards, prophets and preservers, all across the world, the world slowly rewrote itself, and we were strong. The same scholars who spent years to push a pen now found lightning and fire at their fingertips. Men at arms shrugged off lethal blows and decimated hundreds with the strength of their limbs alone. Clerics fervently praying for a sign from the heavens found radiant light bathing down, blessing the faithful and burning the heretics. The old legends came true, the myths and musings seemed upon us, and we reveled in our new found might.
It grew in our world. What was tradition when we could remake the world? What was the world when we could peer into the dream, bridge the gap across reality? What was reality when our very beliefs seem to manifest themselves, and change occurs merely because we wish it so?
That was a mere fifty years ago. The Time of Breakthroughs, the gathering storm, the Weirdwar, the fall of the old powers, the discovery of Dust, Smoke, and Ink, the first glimpses of the Dream. The embers of the old world burn to fuel the fires of the new, our grip on reality falters at the same time as we delve into new worlds, and the light of civilization fades even as we reach for the heavens.
Emphasis on newfound power, of might and magic that isn't the way the world always was. Most fantasy settings assume the supernatural is the default, but what if it was something recent, something still shaking the world?
Cosmopolitan setting, still of a mild technological power, with a healthy diversity between the Great Races, Demihuman (human, dwarf, halfling), Saurian (Dragonborn, kobold), Elfkind (Elves, Drow, Eladrin), and goblinoid (you know the bunch ;) ). A few diverging types; doppelgangers and shifters, deva and goliath, those who once belonged to the main races, but have changed so significantly that they are hardly recognized.
The Three Substances, Dust is just another term for residuum, powering the machinations and magics of the world. Ink is a more permanent focus, another form of magic item creation; inscribing it into equipment or tattooing into the skin to gain power. Smoke allows for Astral travel, the inhaler's spirit transcending temporarily to the Astral Sea, the Feywild, the Shadowfell, and the Elemental Chaos, known altogether as the Dream. Together, they are steadily replacing metal as the symbol of wealth and status.
Planar travel becomes less physical, more ethereal. Affects and is affected by the world directly, but involves only the spiritual self; the facets of the Dream are interpretations of existence, and dreamers can change the mundane world by their actions while leaving their mortal shell behind. The Shadowfell, for example, is a dark interpretation of the horrors, the id, the terrors that lurk beneath the surface. The Feywild is an emotional enlightenment, sympathy and empathy and artistry and all things fantastic, etc. Shameless combination of dream travel and cyberpunk hacker tropes.
Breakdown. Dysfunction on a number of levels, from societal to individual. Those who seek to impose order must confront teleporting prisoners, living weapons, individuals who can fight armies. Those who quest for truth find different lifestyles all affirmed by their own power; religion that grants miracles yet offers no doctrine, paths to power that all seem correct, capabilities that defy logic and understanding all across the world. Those who seek peace must confront individuals drunk on their own potential, affiliations attempting to bend the new world order to their whims, and hidden dangers that grow as monsters and myths become real across the world. Those who seek morality will find lurking tyranny, substance abuse to allow escape from the mundane, and a growing apathy towards the world as everyone turns inward to their own capabilities.
The heroes, meanwhile, must find their way in a changing society which is coming to grips with a changing reality. Power takes on new forms, and groups, organizations, and affiliations are finding ways to use these new rules of the world to their advantage. Some still fight for the preservation of tradition, others push for new and ever advancing ways. All in all, a magical dystopia reeling under its own might, a society with tension between all manner of groups, of religions, of races, of powers and peoples struggling to find their place in a shifting world.
Dreampunk, anyone? ;)
No one knows exactly when it began. Some call it a breakthrough, a magnificent result of progress. Others...
So, Shadowrun? ;)
What about the people who don't have DDI and only use physical books?? Should we have to suffer cause we don't want to pay a monthly subscription to a table top game??
Did you buy the print versions of Dungeon and Dragon magazines? Because that was precisely the same situation, and has been going on since, umm, 1976, and lasted until 2007. So for 31 years, extra information was printed in a monthly subscription form.
If you subscribed to those magazines, I certainly don't see the problem. Now, for a lower price you get both magazines, all of the crunch from all of the books in a searchable form (never before done, and all-but eliminating a "need" to purchase all of the books), a character generator with said information also included, an encounter generator, and a monster generator. The compendium and generator alone mean you can, if you so desire, spend WAY less on D&D than you did when the printed periodicals existed (again, if you bought them), or on the products in general.
If you did not purchase the printed periodicals, was all of the information in them more or less optional than it is in the digital form? No, it was neither. It was precisely the same, only now it is cheaper to purchase, and you get access to the articles in the mags staggered throughout the month, instead of being forced to wait all month to gain access to that info.
Really, this seems like a non-complaint incredibly steeped in confirmation bias, and expressed with hyperbole. You aren't being made to "suffer" anything different than has existed for most of D&D's existence, but are instead getting a better deal than has ever existed as an option you may choose to partake in.
...
...
...
Now, as to the OP: No, I do not see that WotC has to, or definitely will make new settings. However, I would love to see them, staggered between older settings. I'd love to see, in alternating years, an old setting, then a new setting, then an old setting. For the initial burst of years, however, Eberron is replacing the "new" setting for that sort of schedule.
So, for me at least, I'd like to see:
2008: Old Setting (Forgotten Realms)
2009: New Setting (Eberron)
2010: Old Setting (Dark Sun)
2011: New Setting (???)
2012: Old Setting (Blackmoor)
2013: New Setting (???)
2014: Old Setting (Greyhawk or Dragonlance)
2015: New Setting (???)
...and so on.
*Nods* While I feel the Spellplague made FR much better. I think overall reboots are better then continuing the setting through time.
Especially because, how I hear it anyway, there have been a lot of unpopular metaplots that have 'killed'/capped off settings.
...........
...............
.......................Hmm.
No one knows exactly when it began. Some call it a breakthrough, a magnificent result of progress. Others herald it as proof of the divine, an apotheosis granted by the heavens. Some decree it an abomination, a force that heralds the destruction of society, the decimation of tradition, the harbinger of the end. A few speculate on the possibility of natural phenomena, a shifting cycle that has swung in a new direction. But whatever it is, it has changed the world.
It started small. Anyone in the old days could tell you about magic, fools who spent nearly a century developing it, cultivating it, all so they could barely manage to move a cup of coffee. Age-old rituals that could send a single message a hundred miles, but required components expensive enough to fund a courier network for a month. Miracle cures and enchanted elixirs they were not, merely small sympathies of natural resonances too inefficient for practical use.
But then it grew.
It grew in beneath our notice. Limits were slowly broken, the impossible became the improbable, the improbable became the frequent. Little things, at first. Records being broken, rebroken. Magi obtaining their ranks at younger ages, becoming stronger. Rumors of miracles and monsters, of fantastic feats and fearsome fiends from faraway lands.
It grew in our children. Infants, adolescents, young adults began exhibiting....eccentricities. Many families tried to hide them away, suppress their strangeness, teach them to get along without it. A few outed individuals were outcasts, loners with ability they did not understand. But their numbers grew, and as the generations progressed, more and more exhibited the signs.
It grew in our hearts. Suddenly, all around us, was power. And power takes root, it twists inside you, it makes you rely on it, ache for it. Warriors and wizards, prophets and preservers, all across the world, the world slowly rewrote itself, and we were strong. The same scholars who spent years to push a pen now found lightning and fire at their fingertips. Men at arms shrugged off lethal blows and decimated hundreds with the strength of their limbs alone. Clerics fervently praying for a sign from the heavens found radiant light bathing down, blessing the faithful and burning the heretics. The old legends came true, the myths and musings seemed upon us, and we reveled in our new found might.
It grew in our world. What was tradition when we could remake the world? What was the world when we could peer into the dream, bridge the gap across reality? What was reality when our very beliefs seem to manifest themselves, and change occurs merely because we wish it so?
That was a mere fifty years ago. The Time of Breakthroughs, the gathering storm, the Weirdwar, the fall of the old powers, the discovery of Dust, Smoke, and Ink, the first glimpses of the Dream. The embers of the old world burn to fuel the fires of the new, our grip on reality falters at the same time as we delve into new worlds, and the light of civilization fades even as we reach for the heavens.
Emphasis on newfound power, of might and magic that isn't the way the world always was. Most fantasy settings assume the supernatural is the default, but what if it was something recent, something still shaking the world?
Cosmopolitan setting, still of a mild technological power, with a healthy diversity between the Great Races, Demihuman (human, dwarf, halfling), Saurian (Dragonborn, kobold), Elfkind (Elves, Drow, Eladrin), and goblinoid (you know the bunch ;) ). A few diverging types; doppelgangers and shifters, deva and goliath, those who once belonged to the main races, but have changed so significantly that they are hardly recognized.
The Three Substances, Dust is just another term for residuum, powering the machinations and magics of the world. Ink is a more permanent focus, another form of magic item creation; inscribing it into equipment or tattooing into the skin to gain power. Smoke allows for Astral travel, the inhaler's spirit transcending temporarily to the Astral Sea, the Feywild, the Shadowfell, and the Elemental Chaos, known altogether as the Dream. Together, they are steadily replacing metal as the symbol of wealth and status.
Planar travel becomes less physical, more ethereal. Affects and is affected by the world directly, but involves only the spiritual self; the facets of the Dream are interpretations of existence, and dreamers can change the mundane world by their actions while leaving their mortal shell behind. The Shadowfell, for example, is a dark interpretation of the horrors, the id, the terrors that lurk beneath the surface. The Feywild is an emotional enlightenment, sympathy and empathy and artistry and all things fantastic, etc. Shameless combination of dream travel and cyberpunk hacker tropes.
Breakdown. Dysfunction on a number of levels, from societal to individual. Those who seek to impose order must confront teleporting prisoners, living weapons, individuals who can fight armies. Those who quest for truth find different lifestyles all affirmed by their own power; religion that grants miracles yet offers no doctrine, paths to power that all seem correct, capabilities that defy logic and understanding all across the world. Those who seek peace must confront individuals drunk on their own potential, affiliations attempting to bend the new world order to their whims, and hidden dangers that grow as monsters and myths become real across the world. Those who seek morality will find lurking tyranny, substance abuse to allow escape from the mundane, and a growing apathy towards the world as everyone turns inward to their own capabilities.
The heroes, meanwhile, must find their way in a changing society which is coming to grips with a changing reality. Power takes on new forms, and groups, organizations, and affiliations are finding ways to use these new rules of the world to their advantage. Some still fight for the preservation of tradition, others push for new and ever advancing ways. All in all, a magical dystopia reeling under its own might, a society with tension between all manner of groups, of religions, of races, of powers and peoples struggling to find their place in a shifting world.
Dreampunk, anyone? ;)
Sswwwweeeeeeeett!!!! But now it sucks because I'm going to have to take that idea and flesh out a homebrew campaign world from it.
Awesome beyond words though.
I baked these for you...may I become your first Avenger?
If entire settings were updated to 4th via Dragon/Dungeon magazine I think a big increase in membership would happen. We don't need hardback books for each world. These tools would be ideal for constant new material for the worlds over the life of 4th edition.
Worlds such as FR that have a living campaign only need 1 Dragon article a month and 1 Dungeon adventure every once in a while. While take Dragonlance for example a big 2-3 issues article for Dragonlance in Dungeon/Dragon would be great. You have your player magazine Dragon, and your DM mag zine Dungeon. Campaign guide stuff would go in Dungeon and player info would go in Dragon. Then all that mechanics for play get updates into the D&D Compendium and the Character Generator. If there is a big increase in DDI membership they could release those 'world' article in Dragon/Dungeon Compendiums and if they do really well they could make a hardback version of the worlds in the Player's Guide/ Campaign Guide for purchase. This way WotC doesn't release a old dead world that should have stayed dead...and lose the shirt off their back.
That's my opinion I see DDI as the vehicle to bring back tons of revised and update content to the players in a less costly fashion that could have ever been done in prior editions.
--
Thanks and always good gaming,
~Matt Butler
Champions of the Realms Event Organizer
Champions of the Realms Yahoo Group- Indianapolis, IN
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/championsoftherealms/
Champions of the Realms Warhorn Site
http://www.warhorn.org/ChampionsOfTheRealms/
But having to go through magazine after magazine would be an inconvenience not to mention, what if you don't have access to a computer when you are playing D&D??? It's better to have all of your information right there in a nice neat book where you can turn straight to the pages that you need instead of pulling a little from this magazine then have to go through another to find more of what you need. Sounds like an excuse to me just to get more people to sign up for DDI. It's like hanging the meat over a dogs head just to get him to run faster.
Hmm... Actually be sort of neat to see a "build as we go" setting. Have input from the subscribers as they go along. So initial would be survey deal of the kind of setting. Then slowly expand as they release content and could ask questions along the way like; "what would you wish to see next", "how should this race, class, god, city, etc. be expanded upon". Could be quite cool, and a nice use of the technology.
Forgotten Realms is generic enough you don't need to do that. But for something like Eberron or Dark Sun... an entire adventure path themed to that setting and really empahsizing what makes that setting cool would be great. Play through that adventure path and by the time you are done you can pick up the next setting's campaign guides and adventure path.
Making your own campain is wonderful and rewarding. But when you don't have time for that adventure paths can be a big help. It's also a help for "setting the tone" of a campaign setting. An example of how to take the information in the campaign guides and turn it into an actual campaign.
...I'll come back in.
I do like the new take on settings: 2 books, 1 module and done. I am somewhat saddened as a big fan of eberron that said world will only get that little attention, but that's the way.
Except for the missing info on Eberron (I'd love to see some more treatment for the other nations on Khorvaire, Eldeen and such) that will likely ensue, I am thrilled at their approach.
They're going to further support settings with articles in Dragon.
Xun, you're just upset that Wizards wants you to pay for additional content. It's nothing new, of course, but that's what this is. Well, and an irrational fear of technology. Your two chief problems are a desire to pay nothing for something, an irrational fear of technology, and a reflexive, unthinking hatred of the new edition.
...I'll come back in.
Why do I have a fear of technology? I am a freaking software engineer, if I were afraid of technology I certainly wouldn't want to be in that field of work.
Why do I have a fear of technology? I am a freaking software engineer, if I were afraid of technology I certainly wouldn't want to be in that field of work.
If you're a freaking software engineer, then you presumably know how a laptop works. Or a printer. Both are solutions to your "problems".