3.5 Edition Reprints
We're pleased to offer 3.5 Edition Core Rulebook premium reprints releasing this September! These 3.5 Edition premium reprints feature new covers, gilded edges, and the latest errata. So, be sure to pick yours up at your friendly local book or gaming store!
Talk about this news here.
1) Someone at WotC probably has a delusion that Pathfinder is outselling D&D because 3.5e isn't available in stores.
2) They're trying to rebuild bridges with fans of prior editions to sell their new "best of" edition.
3) Someone saw the positive hype and exitement when someone at Banes & Noble pranked the community with the idea of 3e reprints. It just took them two months to do so.
4) This is the big one. It's a cheap product (one they can release with a small development cost) to pad their release schedual that is not DOA 4e content, thus buying time to work longer on 5e.
I didn't see any mention of pricing so should we expect a mark up like the 1E books received?
What kind of markup did the 1E books get, other than the fact that it is 30+ years later and that inflation thingy? I think the 1E books are priced very reasonably considering today's market.
Used 3.5 PHBs can still go for around $35, so it's a great idea to keep them in print.
I guess my only gripe is that I would like to see some sort of commitment to keep some of these in print on an ongoing basis, rather than limited print runs. Some of us weirdos really dig the older editions, and it would be great to be able to buy brand-new copies of the versions we love.
Gap filler until D&DN is released. I'm surprised they jumped straight to 3.5 and skipped 2e. Something feels wierd about this, maybe something to do with protecting IP and the OGL?
That was my guess as well. There may have been some legal issues that haven't been fully worked out for a reprint of 2e.
This is happening for a couple reasons.
1) Someone at WotC probably has a delusion that Pathfinder is outselling D&D because 3.5e isn't available in stores.
2) They're trying to rebuild bridges with fans of prior editions to sell their new "best of" edition.
3) Someone saw the positive hype and exitement when someone at Banes & Noble pranked the community with the idea of 3e reprints. It just took them two months to do so.
4) This is the big one. It's a cheap product (one they can release with a small development cost) to pad their release schedual that is not DOA 4e content, thus buying time to work longer on 5e.
Actually, you missed the biggest one: there is demand for it, so they will sell it, and were planning to do so for a while.
There are a lot of people who run and play D&D 3.5, and not Pathfinder, right now. I'm one of them. A new, minty set of rulebooks with new covers and errata included will sell just fine, and that is reason enough to print them.
I'm getting a strong vibe that you're angry with this, somehow. "delusion"? "pad their release"? "buying time"? No, Jester, this is not a scheme, and Wizards of the Coast is not an evil boogeyman. It might surprise you to know this, but sometimes companies really do want to give people what they want to buy.
I'm surprised they jumped straight to 3.5 and skipped 2e. Something feels wierd about this, maybe something to do with protecting IP and the OGL?
It's likely because 1e and 3e were the best selling editions. 2e sold well, but is more defined by its campaign settings and worlds than the core rulebooks.
Actually, you missed the biggest one: there is demand for it, so they will sell it, and were planning to do so for a while.
I wouldn't say that. There are 38 on Amazon right now and 19 on eBay. They're not particularly hard to come buy or find for cheap.
At the price WotC will have to sell them at (read: want to sell them at) you'll easily be able to find a copy online.
There are a lot of people who run and play D&D 3.5, and not Pathfinder, right now. I'm one of them. A new, minty set of rulebooks with new covers and errata included will sell just fine, and that is reason enough to print them.
Fair enough. But that seems like a fairly small number of people.
But, then again, a limited print run and a product designed to be a "collectible" worked before with the miniature sets and Orcus. If it's treated well, this will be sold as a revised version of the collector's editons (which were very nice), something for the fans and less something to compete with the new edition or 4e.
I'm getting a strong vibe that you're angry with this, somehow. "delusion"? "pad their release"? "buying time"? No, Jester, this is not a scheme, and Wizards of the Coast is not an evil boogeyman.
I think you're reading too much into my tone.
I really do think this was something being done in response to the positive reaction to the 1e reprints while also adding something to their production schedule. This is cynical but a reality of the buisness: they cannot not release any products for an entire quarter and have to have some income to offset the production costs of 5e. A reprint fills that niche nicely.
I am also pretty confident that many believe Paizo's success is entirely based on the continued popularity of 3.5e and the fans of that edition, and not Paizo the company.
It might surprise you to know this, but sometimes companies really do want to give people what they want to buy.
I would be very surprised if they upper management at WotC had any clue what its fans want to buy. But I'm confident the actual people in charge of D&D brand (including those writing the books and designing the game) have a pretty good idea.
But WotC has a loooong history of having really great ideas and then mangling the execution.
I was so disappointed when they did not put out a Skill and Feat Compendium (in the same book). I would love that. Also, a Race and a Class (w/ Prestige Class) books would be also helpful.
The compendium books are the best addition to any version of the game. While some things had balance issues in the Spells and Magic Item books (mostly pricing) it was nothing compared to having it and throwing a couple house rules to fix the issues.
I want the skills and feats book SO BAD! Come on WOTC, make my year!
If they'd update Savage Species to be a full 3.5 book instead of a 3.25 book as it was originally, I'd consider getting a new copy of it. If it's just going to be the same thing, I've got no use for a reprint.
Plus, the 1st ed. releases are a great way to connect the whole community back to the games roots prior to retroclone Next's final release.
Their rereleasing 3.5? That to me feels like an apology for the last four years. Just like Highlander 3 pretends that Highlander 2 never existed, so too will D&D go from 3rd edition directly to 5th edition.
This is happening for a couple reasons.
3) Someone saw the positive hype and exitement when someone at Banes & Noble pranked the community with the idea of 3e reprints. It just took them two months to do so.
What?
Barnes and Noble didn't prank anything. It was the real listing for these books. The decisions to sell these books were made months and months ago. Maybe even a year ago. It was the real deal. Same release date and same ISBN numbers by the way. WotC ordered them to remove the listings because they weren't ready to make any announcements yet. It was the real deal and still is.
This is happening for a couple reasons.
3) Someone saw the positive hype and exitement when someone at Banes & Noble pranked the community with the idea of 3e reprints. It just took them two months to do so.
What?
Barnes and Noble didn't prank anything. It was the real listing for these books. The decisions to sell these books were made months and months ago. Maybe even a year ago. It was the real deal. Same release date and same ISBN numbers by the way. WotC ordered them to remove the listings because they weren't ready to make any announcements yet. It was the real deal and still is.
Where do you see the ISBN? It's not in the WotC catalogue yet.
And, when asked about the reprints, a WotC spokesman denied it. (It's always nice being lied to.) If B&N did leak the info too soon it is a little amusing. WotC has all their new product announcements scooped by book vendor websites.
And, when asked about the reprints, a WotC spokesman denied it. (It's always nice being lied to.)
I never actually seen any denial. Could you point it out? Thanks.
I think my days as a buying customer are finished based on what I see.
I would like the reprint of bestt selling of 3rd Ed but..I have bought a lot of books. Bought, not downloaded. Why I would buy again a book I have just got? (but for collecting).
I advice the semi-core, the books with new PC races and classes (like player handbook II, expanded psionic handbook, complete...)
If psionic handbook is sold again, I suppose it could be sold better with a book of Dark Sun about background and pictures. (but books about background have got a great rival with internet)
* Almost off-topic:
I wonder if the future of rpgs isn´t only MMO online but videogames with option to be played off-line and the posibility of reting servers (by game groups) to play MMO. I would rather the classic rpg books of paper, but I´m afraid the future rpg soucerbooks will be pendrives with form of toys like the franchise spyro: skylanders. I say the books by paper will be like the deluxe collector edition in the videogame industry.
You know if they really loved us they would realease the paperback 3.5 edition book for the cost fo an essentials book...but they don't love us do they?
WotC did release a paperback v3.5 Player's Handbook in 2006. It cost $29.95. The same price as the hardcover one. The paperback book did come in a box with a character sheet and a set of dice. I bought one since it always seemed like someone would forget to bring their PHB.
Even dragons and dugeons 'magazine' articles have taken a huge fall in quantity nowadays, with most new update concentrated to next.I think my days as a buying customer are finished based on what I see.
Mine too. I don't pay them to work on Next, I pay them to deliver me something now. Since DDI is delivering less and less I won't give them any more of my money. I am not in to finance D&D next
Secondly, does the term "local book store" equate to Barnes and Noble or amazon.com? I didn't see these books listed on either web site, althogh I could have missed it.
I realize it has only been a week since the official announcement, but these books have not yet been added to the Wizards on-line product catalog page.
Secondly, does the term "local book store" equate to Barnes and Noble or amazon.com? I didn't see these books listed on either web site, although I could have missed it.
Several months ago Barnes & Noble had the listing for the D&D v3.5 reprints with errata listed on their website complete with ISBN numbers. So the v3.5 reprints should be a much wider release through the book chain. The first edition reprints are being sold online to British folks for certain. Not sure if we Americans are going to be able to get them that way. I think we probably will be able to but not sure.
And we could be the idea of racial classes from Complete Psionic.
If Savage Species were reprinted updated for 3.5....would be different the list of monster classes? I was published before 3.5 Ed.
And we could be the idea of racial classes from Complete Psionic.
I kind of doubt that such a detailed work as revising Savage Species is going to be done by WotC staff. They seem to have their hands full. To truly do it justice they would have to hire out for it. I remember being so disappointed by Savage Species both for the frequent errors in it and that fact that it was out dated before it hit the retail stores. One of the very few books I felt disappointed I spent money on.
Lerin
And, when asked about the reprints, a WotC spokesman denied it. (It's always nice being lied to.) If B&N did leak the info too soon it is a little amusing. WotC has all their new product announcements scooped by book vendor websites.
And they were denying the existence of DDN here on the forums three days before the official announcement. WotC employees are contractually obligated not to admit to stuff like that.
I realize it has only been a week since the official announcement, but these books have not yet been added to the Wizards on-line product catalog page.
Secondly, does the term "local book store" equate to Barnes and Noble or amazon.com? I didn't see these books listed on either web site, althogh I could have missed it.
As of this morning they are listed.
I still don't see them listed by Wizards on their own product catalog page though.
... and for those saying that it may be because of the "delusion" that Pathfinder is ourselling D&D ... I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but, it's not a delusion. Industry stats support it. It's a fact that Pathfinder outsells D&D 4th Edition.
For those asking the price ... I believe they're saying $49.95 for them.
... and for those saying that it may be because of the "delusion" that Pathfinder is ourselling D&D ... I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but, it's not a delusion. Industry stats support it. It's a fact that Pathfinder outsells D&D 4th Edition.
There is actually no real information either way on that Internet dispute. Any "Industry Statistics" are based purely on phone calls and speculation. No one except WotC and Paizo together could prove it either way.
... granted, that may not be unbiased enough for some tastes. Others might say hat it only represents regional purchasing, not nationwide. Personally, while it may not be 100% perfect, as if WotC and Paizo released sales numbers, I think that it's a good enough example to form an opinion on. ... and it certainly *far* from being a delusion. Opinion, perhaps. Delusion, no.
Opinion, perhaps. Delusion, no.
It still will not win Internet thread discussions. It is only opinion-based like most things on the Internet. Everyone has opinions to throw around. I am not saying you or any of the folks that engage in the Pathfinder VS D&D are wrong with your conclusions. Just that the other side of the argument is not going to relent because you or them can't prove anything regarding sales numbers.
I was just offering a statment that is merely within my experience. I already siad above that it's essentially nothing more than my own opinion based on meandering experience. The only objection that I made was to the fella upthread that said it's "delusional". It's a arguable point, either way ... but it is far from a delusion.
Other than that ... you're not even really participating in the discussion about it - you're simply arguing the point that it's impossible to know. But, even if the companies involved published financial sales record, you then could say, "Well, they could have changed those numbers." Without a hand-count of every individual book as it was sold or shipped, it's still theorectically impossible to know, right? What is this? An election in Florida? So, you're feeding the argument for no apparent reason; you're fanning the fire on both sides - like an arms dealer keeping his business going. " ... just that the other side of the [war] is not going to relent because [they'll buy bigger guns]." You're like the guy in the Ballpark franks commercial: "If you're not sure, you're not sure."
Thanks for all that stimulating debate, and all ... but, you know ... could we just be polite to the other readers of the thread and just keep it to the Original Post topic? There's a new one for the internet! A debate that doesn't continue? Take it easy, and Good Gaming to all!
Take it easy, and Good Gaming to all!
Actually this thread was about v3.5 reprints. You brought all this talk of Pathfinder vs D&D sales.
Actually this thread was about v3.5 reprints. You brought all this talk of Pathfinder vs D&D sales.
Nope ... sorry. Wasn't me. I did nothing of the kind.
... a delusion that Pathfinder is outselling D&D because 3.5e isn't available in stores. ...
Actually this thread was about v3.5 reprints. You brought all this talk of Pathfinder vs D&D sales.
Nope ... sorry. Wasn't me. I did nothing of the kind.... a delusion that Pathfinder is outselling D&D because 3.5e isn't available in stores. ...
Let's keep it civil here folks. We all roll dice just the same, we all spend our free time doing the same thing, and I'll happily & cheerfully sit beside any of you at a table during GenCon. Provided you shower.
For those asking the price ... I believe they're saying $49.95 for them.
... and for those saying that it may be because of the "delusion" that Pathfinder is ourselling D&D ... I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but, it's not a delusion. Industry stats support it. It's a fact that Pathfinder outsells D&D 4th Edition.
There is actually no real information either way on that Internet dispute. Any "Industry Statistics" are based purely on phone calls and speculation.
By the leading industry trade magazine.
And while Paizo continues to expand, moving into video games and a Virtual Tabletop and hiring/employing many of the people WotC lays off, Wizards is banking on a new edition after a couple years of looking to expand sales through axing PDFs and releasing a streamlined version of the edition.
I think we've moved well beyond disbelieving ICv2 and Pathfinder's success.
But for the record IcarusATB, re-read my post. The "delusion" part does not refer to PF sales but to a possible reason for the reprinting.
But for the record IcarusATB, re-read my post. The "delusion" part does not refer to PF sales but to a possible reason for the reprinting.
Yeah ... I got that. I'm pretty certain that when I quoted you, it was because I'd read the post. You made a list about possible reasons for the reprint, and you said that it was possible due to WotC staff suffering from the delusion that PFRPG was outselling D&D.
And I'm still stuck on mentioning that it's not a delusion. I don't know about where you live, but, in Houston (a city of 5.4 million), according to the sales of the largest retail game store in the city which is more than 5x as big as the largest in Dallas, for example, and has six-figure sales gross each year ... PFRPG outsells D&D by about 1.37 to 1.
Of course, I posted the essentials of this upthread ... but, again, I'm not really interested in debating the PFRPG vs. D&D issue in this thread ... it's about the reprints; not who has what insider info. Let's offer a little respect to the thread, and if you'd like to continue the rather ridiculous point, please contact me off-thread.
But for the record IcarusATB, re-read my post. The "delusion" part does not refer to PF sales but to a possible reason for the reprinting.
Yeah ... I got that. I'm pretty certain that when I quoted you, it was because I'd read the post. You made a list about possible reasons for the reprint, and you said that it was possible due to WotC staff suffering from the delusion that PFRPG was outselling D&D.
And I'm still stuck on mentioning that it's not a delusion. I don't know about where you live, but, in Houston (a city of 5.4 million), according to the sales of the largest retail game store in the city which is more than 5x as big as the largest in Dallas, for example, and has six-figure sales gross each year ... PFRPG outsells D&D by about 1.37 to 1.
Of course, I posted the essentials of this upthread ... but, again, I'm not really interested in debating the PFRPG vs. D&D issue in this thread ... it's about the reprints; not who has what insider info. Let's offer a little respect to the thread, and if you'd like to continue the rather ridiculous point, please contact me off-thread.
Not quite. You keep missing the "because". My quoted point hinges on the assumption Pathfinder IS outselling 4e.
I was saying someone at WotC might believe PF is doing as well as it is because 3.5e D&D is not available in stores, and that if they re-release 3.5e then PF will stop selling. That if they offer fans of 3e those books again they will return to WotC.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but arnt the prices for each of these "reprints" going to be around $55? I was talking to my LFGS and she said she will only buy them if a customer asks for them due to their price. This doesn't seem like a reprint to try to revive the game/attack another game, but a reprint just to send out a batch to people with old books (money grab).
Customers have been asking for them. I can't tell you if those asking will buy them or not. I suspect they will sell just fine. I think of all of the reprints (1E & v3.5) so far as more "schedule filler" than money grabs. A real money grab by WotC was the premium fourth edition books that were released on the heels of the same books with just a new cover and little if no errata. This isn't like that. There is some value in these books for D&D players that want to use them. When I was playing 2nd Edition I went through several copies of my Player's Handbook. Heavy table use wore them out. The same happened when I was playing Third Edition (both versions). In fact the only editions where I purchased a single copy of the PHB was 1E and 4E. And they are both in fairly good condition. The original 1E books were always expensive for their size so I kept it up in good shape. With digital tools I have to reference my 4E PHB less and less. Plus the excessive update and errata issues. So that is why the 4E book is in good shape.
At the same time my local game store said they only planned on buying 3 copies each of the first edition reprints because of the costs like you mentioned.
wow they really have no shame$55 dollars? wow they really have no shame
Originally these books were going to have fancy gilded page edges but this was changed. It could very well be that the $55 price is out-of-date and will be lower.
I do and was just wondering about D&D Next. Does the community like the action shot covers of 1E, 2E, and 4E or do you prefer the 3E look (core books)?
Picked up my 1E reprints yesterday and also really like the more upscale looking covers.
Just curious . . . .
Anyone else like the cover art (or lack thereof) ?
The new covers are growing on me every time I look at them. The revised covers seemed to be "busier" looking than the original Third Edition ones and this simpler look seems to be better than either of the others.
Anyways, I like the look much more than an action shot of characters and/or monsters. I will be picking up a set of these for sure.
If Savage Species were reprinted updated for 3.5....would be different the list of monster classes? I was published before 3.5 Ed.
And we could be the idea of racial classes from Complete Psionic.
I kind of doubt that such a detailed work as revising Savage Species is going to be done by WotC staff. They seem to have their hands full. To truly do it justice they would have to hire out for it. I remember being so disappointed by Savage Species both for the frequent errors in it and that fact that it was out dated before it hit the retail stores. One of the very few books I felt disappointed I spent money on.
Savage Species was a book that hit shelves when 3.5 was almost complete, it's pretty much a 3.25 book. Very little work is necessary to update the material in the book to 3.5 anyway, why would they waste the effort to "fully update" the book? Especially when it's considered niche as far as its value to most gaming groups, and questionable in balance. You either end up with grossly overpowered characters, or ones that are incredibly weak with hitpoints and defenses so far behind the curve of their ECL compared to a human or even an elf of the same ECL. Sometimes a host of special abilities doesn't make up for the cost of not being able to take a hit.
Savage Species was a book that hit shelves when 3.5 was almost complete, it's pretty much a 3.25 book. Very little work is necessary to update the material in the book to 3.5 anyway, why would they waste the effort to "fully update" the book? Especially when it's considered niche as far as its value to most gaming groups, and questionable in balance. You either end up with grossly overpowered characters, or ones that are incredibly weak with hitpoints and defenses so far behind the curve of their ECL compared to a human or even an elf of the same ECL. Sometimes a host of special abilities doesn't make up for the cost of not being able to take a hit.
You answered your own question. This book needs a lot of work because the entire thing is questionable in balance. Any attempt to bring it up to an "errata and updated" state would be a lot of work.
$55 dollars? wow they really have no shame
Originally these books were going to have fancy gilded page edges but this was changed. It could very well be that the $55 price is out-of-date and will be lower.
right, well they are 50 bucks before tax dude
www.wizards.com/DnD/Product.aspx?x=dnd/p...
thats a complete and total rip-off, frilly edges or not
right, well they are 50 bucks before tax dude
www.wizards.com/DnD/Product.aspx?x=dnd/p...
thats a complete and total rip-off, frilly edges or not
It does sound high priced but D&D books have always been expensive. Compare the price to the previous premium version of the same book: Special Edition Player's Handbook. This one is $25 cheaper.
$55 dollars? wow they
right, well they are 50 bucks before tax dude
www.wizards.com/DnD/Product.aspx?x=dnd/p...
thats a complete and total rip-off, frilly edges or not
Actually it's probably because:
1) Increase in printing costs since those books were released.
2) Decrease in volume of books to be printed. These will not be printed (or sold) in the numbers that they originally were - nor at the level of the last few 4e books to come out. Volume in printing = lower cost per unit.
right, well they are 50 bucks before tax dude
www.wizards.com/DnD/Product.aspx?x=dnd/p...
thats a complete and total rip-off, frilly edges or not
It does sound high priced but D&D books have always been expensive. Compare the price to the previous premium version of the same book: Special Edition Player's Handbook. This one is $25 cheaper.
But you're comparing to something that was a special edition- something that was meant to be expensive. A fairer comparison would be either to the 1st edition reprint. Now, it's probably a decent guess that the originals have skyrocketed in price since 1978. I don't see any new copies on Amazon because they likely don't exist. Used copies tend to have writing on the inside, or were library copies. 1st is also a niche market- anyone who's buying them knows that they have a piece of history in their hands, and as such, are probably willing to break the bank on copies that look nice. Wizards can afford to sell them at obnoxious prices because people are willing to pay obnoxious prices.
3.5 ended in 2008. Now, new copies on Amazon start at $60, but that's because it's an out-of-print book. However, anyone who still wants to play the game probably still has their 3.5 books- at least the core- in serviceable condition. It's not hard to find them in good condition. 3.5 also snagged a lot of people- there's a reason Pathfinder didn't completely flop. With this release, Wizards could bring back a large number of fans who jumped ship at 4th. However, I can think of maybe two people I know who could just drop $150 for the core set, and they aren't into D&D.
I was actually considering buying the PHB to have a backup in case mine falls apart on me (a much greater possibility that any of my other 3.5 books, given how much it was used,) but after seeing $50 a book... Sorry, WotC. Maybe next time.
I think WotC should blend these 3 styles and make something new and cool.
right, well they are 50 bucks before tax dude
$32.97 on amazon.
right, well they are 50 bucks before tax dude
$32.97 on amazon.
amazon can afford to mark prices down but my flgs and book store sell at cover price.
$32.97 on amazon.
amazon can afford to mark prices down but my flgs and book store sell at cover price.
That is your choice, obviously. For those that are price sensitive and object to the $50 price, there are cheaper options. I shop both at amazon and my FLGS, depending on the product, price, and level of convenience desired.