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No race left behind

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
rampant
Nov 07, 2010 0:14:14 Yeah with the new racial ability score bonus system, and the updates to a few races from the essentials line, are races like the Gnome and the Genasi going to be left out?

I mean it's not gonna stop me from playing them, but it seems a little mean to leave them out of the upgrade.
#2
Plaguescarred1
Nov 07, 2010 1:52:12 Yup, along with the Gnome and the Genasi is also the Shadar-kai, Revenant, Kalashtar, Changeling, Warforged, Deva, Goliath and Shifter not getting any flex stats as of yet.

Are we missing any ?

EDITED To Strikethrou and add Goliath
#3
Elemental_Elf
Nov 07, 2010 2:07:58
Are we missing any ?

All of the Monster Manual races :P
#4
Lord_Ventnor
Nov 07, 2010 2:55:38
Yup, along with the Gnome and the Genasi is also the Shadar-kai, Revenant, Kalashtar, Changeling, Warforged, Deva, and Shifter not getting any flex stats as of yet.

Are we missing any ?

Gnoll.

And MM doesn't count until Oversized is killed for good.
#5
ah_stormbringer
Nov 07, 2010 3:57:42 I dno't think you will see updates for the races seen in the monster manual as they are not main stream races and are not used enough to warrent the time to update them.
#6
Fireclave
Nov 07, 2010 4:03:45 Until they appear in a player resource, Monster Manual races aren't offically supported races and still require the DM to houserule them in. So you can forget about them getting adjusted stats until they are given full PC racial treatment first.
#7
thax
Nov 07, 2010 10:23:40 I am wondering if the new Players Handbook revisit will have the reflexed races for the forgotton ones?
#8
rampant
Nov 07, 2010 13:52:26 Honestly I consider the shifter to already have flex stats, it just comes with flex everything else.
#9
AaronOfBarbaria
Nov 07, 2010 14:26:20 Minor correction to the list posted earlier in the thread: Changeling was the first race to have a "flex stat," arrangement, so they are already up to speed.
#10
Plaguescarred1
Nov 08, 2010 0:26:09
I am wondering if the new Players Handbook revisit will have the reflexed races for the forgotton ones?

I highly doubt thaX as the Class Compendium say:

About This Book
Class Compendium: Heroes of Sword and Spell is a Dungeons & Dragons supplement designed for players. It presents the rules you need to build characters of five popular classes: cleric, fighter, rogue, warlord, and wizard. It doesn’t include descriptions of character races, skills, or equipment—you’ll need Heroes of the Fallen Lands or Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms, to complete your character.
#11
chanter_hound
Nov 08, 2010 0:30:21
Minor correction to the list posted earlier in the thread: Changeling was the first race to have a "flex stat," arrangement, so they are already up to speed.

Too bad they don't have anything else, or do a new supplement for them come out?
#12
Plaguescarred1
Nov 08, 2010 3:32:29
Minor correction to the list posted earlier in the thread: Changeling was the first race to have a "flex stat," arrangement, so they are already up to speed.

Very true indeed ! I stand corrected.
#13
tibis
Nov 08, 2010 7:57:33 I expect the non-flex races (people have left out Goliath, unless it got a flex in Dark Sun) will only get updated when they're republished in Essentials format.
#14
BaronFel
Nov 08, 2010 14:42:03
I expect the non-flex races (people have left out Goliath, unless it got a flex in Dark Sun) will only get updated when they're republished in Essentials format.

Heroes of the Stuff We Forgot.

they only do what 4 or 5 races though so it'll be a little bit if they stick to the trade paper format.
#15
Jay_Ibero_911
Nov 08, 2010 16:37:33 Personally I hope that Gnomes go CON+INT/CHA, both filling the CON+INT void AND making them reasonable sentinel druids since they would at least have the secondary stat covered. I really would love to remake my first 3.5 character, David the Gnome, a gnome druid who was always mounted on his animal companion (riding dog initially, upgraded to rhino in later levels, with reduce animal on tap to keep him manageable size).
#16
Lord_Ventnor
Nov 08, 2010 21:03:15
Personally I hope that Gnomes go CON+INT/CHA, both filling the CON+INT void AND making them reasonable sentinel druids since they would at least have the secondary stat covered. I really would love to remake my first 3.5 character, David the Gnome, a gnome druid who was always mounted on his animal companion (riding dog initially, upgraded to rhino in later levels, with reduce animal on tap to keep him manageable size).

I don't think that's going to happen.

Gnomes are already Int/Cha. The current paradigm is that one of those current stats will stay the same, while the other becomes a flex stat.

Personally, I think gnomes might end up as Int - Dex/Cha. This makes them excellent Cunning Rogues, which is definitely a part of their fluff.

Although making them Int - Con/Cha would be kind of hilarious too.
#17
Damon_Tor
Nov 09, 2010 0:36:57
This makes them excellent Cunning Rogues, which is definitely a part of their fluff.

Although making them Int - Con/Cha would be kind of hilarious too.

I was under the impression cunning rogues didn't exist any more, since proper weapons for them were removed from sneak attack.

Not that gnomes could use such weapons anyway.
#18
Marandahir
Nov 09, 2010 7:52:04
Personally I hope that Gnomes go CON+INT/CHA, both filling the CON+INT void AND making them reasonable sentinel druids since they would at least have the secondary stat covered. I really would love to remake my first 3.5 character, David the Gnome, a gnome druid who was always mounted on his animal companion (riding dog initially, upgraded to rhino in later levels, with reduce animal on tap to keep him manageable size).

I don't think that's going to happen.

Gnomes are already Int/Cha. The current paradigm is that one of those current stats will stay the same, while the other becomes a flex stat.

Personally, I think gnomes might end up as Int - Dex/Cha. This makes them excellent Cunning Rogues, which is definitely a part of their fluff.

Although making them Int - Con/Cha would be kind of hilarious too.

Int – Con/Cha would fulfill the Tinker Gnome archetype too, alongside various arcane and psionic tricksters. However, it would oddly make it more often a Star Hexblade than a Fey Hexblade, but the Eladrin do that too.

#19
MaximumHavoc
Nov 09, 2010 8:04:51
. . . However, it would oddly make it more often a Star Hexblade than a Fey Hexblade, but the Eladrin do that too.

i think that is placated by the fact that eladrin now are good feylocks--not feyblades, but feylocks.

the fact that feyblades and feylocks do not share both stats allows more races to be closely associated with the fey aspect of the warlock class; so, too, with the infernal (hell locks and hellblades) and far realm (star locks and starblades) aspects of the warlocks class. i think this is a good thing.
#20
theoucrew
Nov 09, 2010 11:31:37 It would be nifty (but likely a lot of work), if the flex stat for Genasi was based on your elemental manification. Of course, that makes the feat that lets you change elements problematic.
#21
undrave
Nov 09, 2010 12:25:07 I hope Genasis get STR+ INT/CHA just so we can get a different STR/CHA race! It would make them good Sorcerers too.
#22
Janx_14
Nov 09, 2010 16:36:22 I dont see much point discussing possible race stats, they just cause disapointments and the like when they get published differently (look at the tiefling).

Also, the class compendium has less classes, with seemingly the same number of builds (judging from fighter), no races, no gear, or rules beyond mixing pre-e and E classes (to the extent is unknown, given the preview, I dont think its mix and match, merely better structuring the different classes under an Archetype).

How much they expecting to charge for this? They've effectively cut out a good portion of the PHB.

I'm guessing we'll get a "Race Compendium" of sorts down the road.
#23
kimby
Nov 11, 2010 0:36:45
Yup, along with the Gnome and the Genasi is also the Shadar-kai, Revenant, Kalashtar, Changeling, Warforged, Deva, Goliath and Shifter not getting any flex stats as of yet.

Are we missing any ?

EDITED To Strikethrou and add Goliath

Gnoll, Kenku and Orc if you're playing LFR and following the new CCG 2.0 guidelines.
#24
undrave
Nov 11, 2010 22:50:31

Gnoll, Kenku and Orc if you're playing LFR and following the new CCG 2.0 guidelines.

Wait... since when are Kenku and Orc official races on the same level as Gnolls?
#25
undrave
Nov 11, 2010 22:50:35

Gnoll, Kenku and Orc if you're playing LFR and following the new CCG 2.0 guidelines.

Wait... since when are Kenku and Orc official races on the same level as Gnolls?
#26
inarai
Nov 11, 2010 23:54:49
This makes them excellent Cunning Rogues, which is definitely a part of their fluff.

Although making them Int - Con/Cha would be kind of hilarious too.

I was under the impression cunning rogues didn't exist any more, since proper weapons for them were removed from sneak attack.

Not that gnomes could use such weapons anyway.

Actually, they still get Hand-Crossbows, which would be the most likely one for a Gnome, and I'd be completely unsurprised to see a feat like Versatile Duelist to open up other Crossbow (And maybe normal bow) options.
#27
Kaviyd3
Nov 15, 2010 23:15:15

Gnoll, Kenku and Orc if you're playing LFR and following the new CCG 2.0 guidelines.

Wait... since when are Kenku and Orc official races on the same level as Gnolls?

Well -- they shouldn't be official races since their only writeups are in Monster Manuals, but I do recall seeing them allowed in the last few Forgotten Realms campaign files for the offline Character Builder. I am not sure what the CCG 2.0 guidelines are or where they can be found -- maybe they explain why those races are allowed?
#28
ah_stormbringer
Nov 16, 2010 3:58:21 The Kenku have been LFR legal with a card for some time now even without a full race write up that is why they were in the offline CB.
#29
Janx_14
Nov 16, 2010 9:46:11

Gnoll, Kenku and Orc if you're playing LFR and following the new CCG 2.0 guidelines.

Wait... since when are Kenku and Orc official races on the same level as Gnolls?

Well -- they shouldn't be official races since their only writeups are in Monster Manuals, but I do recall seeing them allowed in the last few Forgotten Realms campaign files for the offline Character Builder. I am not sure what the CCG 2.0 guidelines are or where they can be found -- maybe they explain why those races are allowed?

Gnolls got an article in dragon about playing them.
#30
undrave
Nov 16, 2010 11:58:47
The Kenku have been LFR legal with a card for some time now even without a full race write up that is why they were in the offline CB.

Sheesh... when were they planning on giving us 'Playing Kenku'??
#31
kairiroses
Dec 01, 2010 11:26:12
The Kenku have been LFR legal with a card for some time now even without a full race write up that is why they were in the offline CB.

Sheesh... when were they planning on giving us 'Playing Kenku'??

Hell yeah! I want articles for Playing Bugbear, Deva, Duergar, Genasi, Githyanki, Githzerai, Gnolls, Gnome, Goblin, Goliath, Hobgoblin, Kalashtar, Kenku, Kobold, Longtooth Shifter, Orc, Razorclaw Shifter, Revenant, Shadar-kai, and Warforged.

These would bring popular "Monster Manual" races into the core and would update all races to the new Essentials format.

The ones I, personally, most want:

* Bugbear
* Deva
* Kobold
* Revenant
*Warforged
#32
MaximumHavoc
Dec 01, 2010 13:25:55 i still hope for a ph type book with:

goblinoids (goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears)
kobolds
orcs
and maybe gnolls (finally to be included in a hard cover)
#33
Fox_Reeveheart
Dec 04, 2010 13:15:59 GIVE US KOBOLDS, NOW!

edit: After those, then goblins and kenku
#34
Marandahir
Dec 04, 2010 21:40:46 No Kobolds, Goblinoids, or Orcs. These things are nastly little buggers or terrible, terrible beings.

Gnolls could use more material to support them.

Kenku are a possibility.
#35
Chameleon-X
Dec 05, 2010 11:44:02 @Marandahir: You, sir, are a Racist! (j/k).

I hope the Monster manual does get write-ups, if only because they're already half-way done, anyway.

My predictions (hopes)

Gnome (+2 Int, +2 Con/Cha)
Genasi (+2 Str, +2 Int/Cha)
Deva (+2 Wis, +2 Int/Cha)
R. Shifter (+2 Wis, +2 Dex/Con)
L. Shifter (+2 Wis, +2 Str/Con)
Kalashtar (+2 Wis, +2 Cha/Int)
Warforged (+2 Con, +2 Str/Int)
Kobold (+2 Dex, +2 Con/Cha)
Hobgoblin (+Con, +2 Cha/Int)
Githyanki (+2 Int, +2 Str/Con)
Shadarkai (+2 Dex, +2 Int/Cha)
Revenent (+2 Con, +2 Dex/Int)
Gnoll (+2 Dex, +2 Con/Str)
#36
crystix
Dec 05, 2010 17:52:24
No Kobolds, Goblinoids, or Orcs. These things are nastly little buggers or terrible, terrible beings.

Gnolls could use more material to support them.

Kenku are a possibility.

but they're (at least Goblins and Orcs) staples of fantasy along with Dwarves, Elves, and Hobb- er I mean... Halflings. It's a bit off to allow Githzerai and Shadar-kai (one of my favorites), creatures of more modern design, and not allow the more brutish beings of traditional fantasy.

#37
Marandahir
Dec 05, 2010 20:47:12
No Kobolds, Goblinoids, or Orcs. These things are nastly little buggers or terrible, terrible beings.

Gnolls could use more material to support them.

Kenku are a possibility.

but they're (at least Goblins and Orcs) staples of fantasy along with Dwarves, Elves, and Hobb- er I mean... Halflings. It's a bit off to allow Githzerai and Shadar-kai (one of my favorites), creatures of more modern design, and not allow the more brutish beings of traditional fantasy.

Except that this is a game of heroes. Did you read the fluff for Orcs in Monster Vault? There is NO WAY they'd be heroes, in the core setting. ONLY in Eberron. Same thing with Goblinoids. ONLY in Eberron. Just one setting is not enough. You can play the MM stats if you want. They're monsters. Monsters aren't supposed to be heroes.

Now, Gnolls are in due to grandfathering, but there's likely a reason why they haven't been touched on since. They realised the mistake of making an article on a monster race.
#38
rampant
Dec 06, 2010 3:11:02 That or they're not ready to fix the gnoll stats so it's playable for something besides melee classes.
#39
fayelampshire
Dec 06, 2010 14:02:51

Except that this is a game of heroes. Did you read the fluff for Orcs in Monster Vault? There is NO WAY they'd be heroes, in the core setting. ONLY in Eberron. Same thing with Goblinoids. ONLY in Eberron. Just one setting is not enough. You can play the MM stats if you want. They're monsters. Monsters aren't supposed to be heroes.

Or they can be in any homebrew setting you care to name. Like they are in mine. At least, like some of them are. The ones that live in the main city (and indeed the setting of the early levels) have, for some reason, abandoned their old ways. And they did it about 800 years ago...
Personally, I'd rather see more options, not less. Just because something is in print doesn't mean you have to allow it...
#40
Aegeri
Dec 08, 2010 20:35:59 I am absolutely fed up of turning monstrous or evil races into PCs. New ones I am not too unhappy about, but I'm not at all interested in monstrous races and I dislike forever they ever published those terribad racial write ups in MM/MM2. Thankfully they have abandoned that idea altogether.
#41
crystix
Dec 08, 2010 20:50:33
I am absolutely fed up of turning monstrous or evil races into PCs. New ones I am not too unhappy about, but I'm not at all interested in monstrous races and I dislike forever they ever published those terribad racial write ups in MM/MM2. Thankfully they have abandoned that idea altogether.

I think monstrous races are more fun to play because they allow a lot of potential for character development than Deva or Shardmind. A storm sorcerer Goblin who rallies the oppressed/feral Goblins and Bugbears to fight against the Hobgoblins' eugenic society is a lot more interesting than "I am a divine essence in mortal form, behold me for I sparkle!"
#42
Kalnaur
Dec 08, 2010 21:17:08
I am absolutely fed up of turning monstrous or evil races into PCs. New ones I am not too unhappy about, but I'm not at all interested in monstrous races and I dislike forever they ever published those terribad racial write ups in MM/MM2. Thankfully they have abandoned that idea altogether.

Where does your dislike of Monstrous PCs come from? Because as for myself, I'd prefer not to see a single human/elf/dwarf stock being within a party. Heck, the current party that I have has a few human looking beings (Deva and Shadar-Kai), an Eladrin a Minotaur (Yay! Minotaurs!) and a Longtooth Shifter (read: poor man's lycanthrope). I find I am happier when my players deviate from human-kind.
#43
Duskweaver
Dec 09, 2010 1:32:12 Surely I can't be the only person who considers the idea of certain (usually ugly, brutish and dark-skinned) sapient humanoid races being restricted to evil alignments and literally incapable of heroism to be not only very stupid, but also seriously offensive?

Are there really people here who want to return us to the days when those who were into fantasy and RPGs were accused (with some justification) of wanting to justify racism?

People who think single-alignment races are a good idea need to seriously examine what that attitude says about them. I mean, even Tolkien recognised the unfortunate implications of the way he portrayed his orcs (hence why he eventually ret-conned them as an artificial race of corrupted elves).
#44
celticmutt
Dec 09, 2010 2:48:20
I am absolutely fed up of turning monstrous or evil races into PCs. New ones I am not too unhappy about, but I'm not at all interested in monstrous races and I dislike forever they ever published those terribad racial write ups in MM/MM2. Thankfully they have abandoned that idea altogether.

Boohoo. Meanwhile, those of us that like diversity are more than happy to get Orcs and Goblinoids and the like as race options. And will continue to get them as options. Because WotC has blatantly not abandonded the idea yet.

Surely I can't be the only person who considers the idea of certain (usually ugly, brutish and dark-skinned) sapient humanoid races being restricted to evil alignments and literally incapable of heroism to be not only very stupid, but also seriously offensive?

I know I do.

Are there really people here who want to return us to the days when those who were into fantasy and RPGs were accused (with some justification) of wanting to justify racism?

Sadly there are.

People who think single-alignment races are a good idea need to seriously examine what that attitude says about them. I mean, even Tolkien recognised the unfortunate implications of the way he portrayed his orcs (hence why he eventually ret-conned them as an artificial race of corrupted elves).

Agreed. Of course, I still think Tolkien was still too limited in what he did, but then I'm not a big fan of his anyways.
#45
Pashalik_Mons
Dec 09, 2010 2:57:05
Surely I can't be the only person who considers the idea of certain (usually ugly, brutish and dark-skinned) sapient humanoid races being restricted to evil alignments and literally incapable of heroism to be not only very stupid, but also seriously offensive?

Are there really people here who want to return us to the days when those who were into fantasy and RPGs were accused (with some justification) of wanting to justify racism?

People who think single-alignment races are a good idea need to seriously examine what that attitude says about them. I mean, even Tolkien recognised the unfortunate implications of the way he portrayed his orcs (hence why he eventually ret-conned them as an artificial race of corrupted elves).

I'm with you. Have been for years. Been carrying around a quote about it in my sig.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rampant Nov 07, 2010 0:14:14	Yeah with the new racial ability score bonus system, and the updates to a few races from the essentials line, are races like the Gnome and the Genasi going to be left out? I mean it's not gonna stop me from playing them, but it seems a little mean to leave them out of the upgrade.
#2 Plaguescarred1 Nov 07, 2010 1:52:12	Yup, along with the Gnome and the Genasi is also the Shadar-kai, Revenant, Kalashtar, Changeling, Warforged, Deva, Goliath and Shifter not getting any flex stats as of yet. Are we missing any ? EDITED To Strikethrou and add Goliath
#3 Elemental_Elf Nov 07, 2010 2:07:58	Are we missing any ? All of the Monster Manual races :P
#4 Lord_Ventnor Nov 07, 2010 2:55:38	Yup, along with the Gnome and the Genasi is also the Shadar-kai, Revenant, Kalashtar, Changeling, Warforged, Deva, and Shifter not getting any flex stats as of yet. Are we missing any ? Gnoll. And MM doesn't count until Oversized is killed for good.
#5 ah_stormbringer Nov 07, 2010 3:57:42	I dno't think you will see updates for the races seen in the monster manual as they are not main stream races and are not used enough to warrent the time to update them.
#6 Fireclave Nov 07, 2010 4:03:45	Until they appear in a player resource, Monster Manual races aren't offically supported races and still require the DM to houserule them in. So you can forget about them getting adjusted stats until they are given full PC racial treatment first.
#7 thax Nov 07, 2010 10:23:40	I am wondering if the new Players Handbook revisit will have the reflexed races for the forgotton ones?
#8 rampant Nov 07, 2010 13:52:26	Honestly I consider the shifter to already have flex stats, it just comes with flex everything else.
#9 AaronOfBarbaria Nov 07, 2010 14:26:20	Minor correction to the list posted earlier in the thread: Changeling was the first race to have a "flex stat," arrangement, so they are already up to speed.
#10 Plaguescarred1 Nov 08, 2010 0:26:09	I am wondering if the new Players Handbook revisit will have the reflexed races for the forgotton ones? I highly doubt thaX as the Class Compendium say: About This Book Class Compendium: Heroes of Sword and Spell is a Dungeons & Dragons supplement designed for players. It presents the rules you need to build characters of five popular classes: cleric, fighter, rogue, warlord, and wizard. It doesn’t include descriptions of character races, skills, or equipment—you’ll need Heroes of the Fallen Lands or Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms, to complete your character.
#11 chanter_hound Nov 08, 2010 0:30:21	Minor correction to the list posted earlier in the thread: Changeling was the first race to have a "flex stat," arrangement, so they are already up to speed. Too bad they don't have anything else, or do a new supplement for them come out?
#12 Plaguescarred1 Nov 08, 2010 3:32:29	Minor correction to the list posted earlier in the thread: Changeling was the first race to have a "flex stat," arrangement, so they are already up to speed. Very true indeed ! I stand corrected.
#13 tibis Nov 08, 2010 7:57:33	I expect the non-flex races (people have left out Goliath, unless it got a flex in Dark Sun) will only get updated when they're republished in Essentials format.
#14 BaronFel Nov 08, 2010 14:42:03	I expect the non-flex races (people have left out Goliath, unless it got a flex in Dark Sun) will only get updated when they're republished in Essentials format. Heroes of the Stuff We Forgot. they only do what 4 or 5 races though so it'll be a little bit if they stick to the trade paper format.
#15 Jay_Ibero_911 Nov 08, 2010 16:37:33	Personally I hope that Gnomes go CON+INT/CHA, both filling the CON+INT void AND making them reasonable sentinel druids since they would at least have the secondary stat covered. I really would love to remake my first 3.5 character, David the Gnome, a gnome druid who was always mounted on his animal companion (riding dog initially, upgraded to rhino in later levels, with reduce animal on tap to keep him manageable size).
#16 Lord_Ventnor Nov 08, 2010 21:03:15	Personally I hope that Gnomes go CON+INT/CHA, both filling the CON+INT void AND making them reasonable sentinel druids since they would at least have the secondary stat covered. I really would love to remake my first 3.5 character, David the Gnome, a gnome druid who was always mounted on his animal companion (riding dog initially, upgraded to rhino in later levels, with reduce animal on tap to keep him manageable size). I don't think that's going to happen. Gnomes are already Int/Cha. The current paradigm is that one of those current stats will stay the same, while the other becomes a flex stat. Personally, I think gnomes might end up as Int - Dex/Cha. This makes them excellent Cunning Rogues, which is definitely a part of their fluff. Although making them Int - Con/Cha would be kind of hilarious too.
#17 Damon_Tor Nov 09, 2010 0:36:57	This makes them excellent Cunning Rogues, which is definitely a part of their fluff. Although making them Int - Con/Cha would be kind of hilarious too. I was under the impression cunning rogues didn't exist any more, since proper weapons for them were removed from sneak attack. Not that gnomes could use such weapons anyway.
#18 Marandahir Nov 09, 2010 7:52:04	Personally I hope that Gnomes go CON+INT/CHA, both filling the CON+INT void AND making them reasonable sentinel druids since they would at least have the secondary stat covered. I really would love to remake my first 3.5 character, David the Gnome, a gnome druid who was always mounted on his animal companion (riding dog initially, upgraded to rhino in later levels, with reduce animal on tap to keep him manageable size). I don't think that's going to happen. Gnomes are already Int/Cha. The current paradigm is that one of those current stats will stay the same, while the other becomes a flex stat. Personally, I think gnomes might end up as Int - Dex/Cha. This makes them excellent Cunning Rogues, which is definitely a part of their fluff. Although making them Int - Con/Cha would be kind of hilarious too. Int – Con/Cha would fulfill the Tinker Gnome archetype too, alongside various arcane and psionic tricksters. However, it would oddly make it more often a Star Hexblade than a Fey Hexblade, but the Eladrin do that too.
#19 MaximumHavoc Nov 09, 2010 8:04:51	. . . However, it would oddly make it more often a Star Hexblade than a Fey Hexblade, but the Eladrin do that too. i think that is placated by the fact that eladrin now are good feylocks--not feyblades, but feylocks. the fact that feyblades and feylocks do not share both stats allows more races to be closely associated with the fey aspect of the warlock class; so, too, with the infernal (hell locks and hellblades) and far realm (star locks and starblades) aspects of the warlocks class. i think this is a good thing.
#20 theoucrew Nov 09, 2010 11:31:37	It would be nifty (but likely a lot of work), if the flex stat for Genasi was based on your elemental manification. Of course, that makes the feat that lets you change elements problematic.
#21 undrave Nov 09, 2010 12:25:07	I hope Genasis get STR+ INT/CHA just so we can get a different STR/CHA race! It would make them good Sorcerers too.
#22 Janx_14 Nov 09, 2010 16:36:22	I dont see much point discussing possible race stats, they just cause disapointments and the like when they get published differently (look at the tiefling). Also, the class compendium has less classes, with seemingly the same number of builds (judging from fighter), no races, no gear, or rules beyond mixing pre-e and E classes (to the extent is unknown, given the preview, I dont think its mix and match, merely better structuring the different classes under an Archetype). How much they expecting to charge for this? They've effectively cut out a good portion of the PHB. I'm guessing we'll get a "Race Compendium" of sorts down the road.
#23 kimby Nov 11, 2010 0:36:45	Yup, along with the Gnome and the Genasi is also the Shadar-kai, Revenant, Kalashtar, Changeling, Warforged, Deva, Goliath and Shifter not getting any flex stats as of yet. Are we missing any ? EDITED To Strikethrou and add Goliath Gnoll, Kenku and Orc if you're playing LFR and following the new CCG 2.0 guidelines.
#24 undrave Nov 11, 2010 22:50:31	Gnoll, Kenku and Orc if you're playing LFR and following the new CCG 2.0 guidelines. Wait... since when are Kenku and Orc official races on the same level as Gnolls?
#25 undrave Nov 11, 2010 22:50:35	Gnoll, Kenku and Orc if you're playing LFR and following the new CCG 2.0 guidelines. Wait... since when are Kenku and Orc official races on the same level as Gnolls?
#26 inarai Nov 11, 2010 23:54:49	This makes them excellent Cunning Rogues, which is definitely a part of their fluff. Although making them Int - Con/Cha would be kind of hilarious too. I was under the impression cunning rogues didn't exist any more, since proper weapons for them were removed from sneak attack. Not that gnomes could use such weapons anyway. Actually, they still get Hand-Crossbows, which would be the most likely one for a Gnome, and I'd be completely unsurprised to see a feat like Versatile Duelist to open up other Crossbow (And maybe normal bow) options.
#27 Kaviyd3 Nov 15, 2010 23:15:15	Gnoll, Kenku and Orc if you're playing LFR and following the new CCG 2.0 guidelines. Wait... since when are Kenku and Orc official races on the same level as Gnolls? Well -- they shouldn't be official races since their only writeups are in Monster Manuals, but I do recall seeing them allowed in the last few Forgotten Realms campaign files for the offline Character Builder. I am not sure what the CCG 2.0 guidelines are or where they can be found -- maybe they explain why those races are allowed?
#28 ah_stormbringer Nov 16, 2010 3:58:21	The Kenku have been LFR legal with a card for some time now even without a full race write up that is why they were in the offline CB.
#29 Janx_14 Nov 16, 2010 9:46:11	Gnoll, Kenku and Orc if you're playing LFR and following the new CCG 2.0 guidelines. Wait... since when are Kenku and Orc official races on the same level as Gnolls? Well -- they shouldn't be official races since their only writeups are in Monster Manuals, but I do recall seeing them allowed in the last few Forgotten Realms campaign files for the offline Character Builder. I am not sure what the CCG 2.0 guidelines are or where they can be found -- maybe they explain why those races are allowed? Gnolls got an article in dragon about playing them.
#30 undrave Nov 16, 2010 11:58:47	The Kenku have been LFR legal with a card for some time now even without a full race write up that is why they were in the offline CB. Sheesh... when were they planning on giving us 'Playing Kenku'??
#31 kairiroses Dec 01, 2010 11:26:12	The Kenku have been LFR legal with a card for some time now even without a full race write up that is why they were in the offline CB. Sheesh... when were they planning on giving us 'Playing Kenku'?? Hell yeah! I want articles for Playing Bugbear, Deva, Duergar, Genasi, Githyanki, Githzerai, Gnolls, Gnome, Goblin, Goliath, Hobgoblin, Kalashtar, Kenku, Kobold, Longtooth Shifter, Orc, Razorclaw Shifter, Revenant, Shadar-kai, and Warforged. These would bring popular "Monster Manual" races into the core and would update all races to the new Essentials format. The ones I, personally, most want: * Bugbear * Deva * Kobold * Revenant *Warforged
#32 MaximumHavoc Dec 01, 2010 13:25:55	i still hope for a ph type book with: goblinoids (goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears) kobolds orcs and maybe gnolls (finally to be included in a hard cover)
#33 Fox_Reeveheart Dec 04, 2010 13:15:59	GIVE US KOBOLDS, NOW! edit: After those, then goblins and kenku
#34 Marandahir Dec 04, 2010 21:40:46	No Kobolds, Goblinoids, or Orcs. These things are nastly little buggers or terrible, terrible beings. Gnolls could use more material to support them. Kenku are a possibility.
#35 Chameleon-X Dec 05, 2010 11:44:02	@Marandahir: You, sir, are a Racist! (j/k). I hope the Monster manual does get write-ups, if only because they're already half-way done, anyway. My predictions (hopes) Gnome (+2 Int, +2 Con/Cha) Genasi (+2 Str, +2 Int/Cha) Deva (+2 Wis, +2 Int/Cha) R. Shifter (+2 Wis, +2 Dex/Con) L. Shifter (+2 Wis, +2 Str/Con) Kalashtar (+2 Wis, +2 Cha/Int) Warforged (+2 Con, +2 Str/Int) Kobold (+2 Dex, +2 Con/Cha) Hobgoblin (+Con, +2 Cha/Int) Githyanki (+2 Int, +2 Str/Con) Shadarkai (+2 Dex, +2 Int/Cha) Revenent (+2 Con, +2 Dex/Int) Gnoll (+2 Dex, +2 Con/Str)
#36 crystix Dec 05, 2010 17:52:24	No Kobolds, Goblinoids, or Orcs. These things are nastly little buggers or terrible, terrible beings. Gnolls could use more material to support them. Kenku are a possibility. but they're (at least Goblins and Orcs) staples of fantasy along with Dwarves, Elves, and Hobb- er I mean... Halflings. It's a bit off to allow Githzerai and Shadar-kai (one of my favorites), creatures of more modern design, and not allow the more brutish beings of traditional fantasy.
#37 Marandahir Dec 05, 2010 20:47:12	No Kobolds, Goblinoids, or Orcs. These things are nastly little buggers or terrible, terrible beings. Gnolls could use more material to support them. Kenku are a possibility. but they're (at least Goblins and Orcs) staples of fantasy along with Dwarves, Elves, and Hobb- er I mean... Halflings. It's a bit off to allow Githzerai and Shadar-kai (one of my favorites), creatures of more modern design, and not allow the more brutish beings of traditional fantasy. Except that this is a game of heroes. Did you read the fluff for Orcs in Monster Vault? There is NO WAY they'd be heroes, in the core setting. ONLY in Eberron. Same thing with Goblinoids. ONLY in Eberron. Just one setting is not enough. You can play the MM stats if you want. They're monsters. Monsters aren't supposed to be heroes. Now, Gnolls are in due to grandfathering, but there's likely a reason why they haven't been touched on since. They realised the mistake of making an article on a monster race.
#38 rampant Dec 06, 2010 3:11:02	That or they're not ready to fix the gnoll stats so it's playable for something besides melee classes.
#39 fayelampshire Dec 06, 2010 14:02:51	Except that this is a game of heroes. Did you read the fluff for Orcs in Monster Vault? There is NO WAY they'd be heroes, in the core setting. ONLY in Eberron. Same thing with Goblinoids. ONLY in Eberron. Just one setting is not enough. You can play the MM stats if you want. They're monsters. Monsters aren't supposed to be heroes. Or they can be in any homebrew setting you care to name. Like they are in mine. At least, like some of them are. The ones that live in the main city (and indeed the setting of the early levels) have, for some reason, abandoned their old ways. And they did it about 800 years ago... Personally, I'd rather see more options, not less. Just because something is in print doesn't mean you have to allow it...
#40 Aegeri Dec 08, 2010 20:35:59	I am absolutely fed up of turning monstrous or evil races into PCs. New ones I am not too unhappy about, but I'm not at all interested in monstrous races and I dislike forever they ever published those terribad racial write ups in MM/MM2. Thankfully they have abandoned that idea altogether.
#41 crystix Dec 08, 2010 20:50:33	I am absolutely fed up of turning monstrous or evil races into PCs. New ones I am not too unhappy about, but I'm not at all interested in monstrous races and I dislike forever they ever published those terribad racial write ups in MM/MM2. Thankfully they have abandoned that idea altogether. I think monstrous races are more fun to play because they allow a lot of potential for character development than Deva or Shardmind. A storm sorcerer Goblin who rallies the oppressed/feral Goblins and Bugbears to fight against the Hobgoblins' eugenic society is a lot more interesting than "I am a divine essence in mortal form, behold me for I sparkle!"
#42 Kalnaur Dec 08, 2010 21:17:08	I am absolutely fed up of turning monstrous or evil races into PCs. New ones I am not too unhappy about, but I'm not at all interested in monstrous races and I dislike forever they ever published those terribad racial write ups in MM/MM2. Thankfully they have abandoned that idea altogether. Where does your dislike of Monstrous PCs come from? Because as for myself, I'd prefer not to see a single human/elf/dwarf stock being within a party. Heck, the current party that I have has a few human looking beings (Deva and Shadar-Kai), an Eladrin a Minotaur (Yay! Minotaurs!) and a Longtooth Shifter (read: poor man's lycanthrope). I find I am happier when my players deviate from human-kind.
#43 Duskweaver Dec 09, 2010 1:32:12	Surely I can't be the only person who considers the idea of certain (usually ugly, brutish and dark-skinned) sapient humanoid races being restricted to evil alignments and literally incapable of heroism to be not only very stupid, but also seriously offensive? Are there really people here who want to return us to the days when those who were into fantasy and RPGs were accused (with some justification) of wanting to justify racism? People who think single-alignment races are a good idea need to seriously examine what that attitude says about them. I mean, even Tolkien recognised the unfortunate implications of the way he portrayed his orcs (hence why he eventually ret-conned them as an artificial race of corrupted elves).
#44 celticmutt Dec 09, 2010 2:48:20	I am absolutely fed up of turning monstrous or evil races into PCs. New ones I am not too unhappy about, but I'm not at all interested in monstrous races and I dislike forever they ever published those terribad racial write ups in MM/MM2. Thankfully they have abandoned that idea altogether. Boohoo. Meanwhile, those of us that like diversity are more than happy to get Orcs and Goblinoids and the like as race options. And will continue to get them as options. Because WotC has blatantly not abandonded the idea yet. Surely I can't be the only person who considers the idea of certain (usually ugly, brutish and dark-skinned) sapient humanoid races being restricted to evil alignments and literally incapable of heroism to be not only very stupid, but also seriously offensive? I know I do. Are there really people here who want to return us to the days when those who were into fantasy and RPGs were accused (with some justification) of wanting to justify racism? Sadly there are. People who think single-alignment races are a good idea need to seriously examine what that attitude says about them. I mean, even Tolkien recognised the unfortunate implications of the way he portrayed his orcs (hence why he eventually ret-conned them as an artificial race of corrupted elves). Agreed. Of course, I still think Tolkien was still too limited in what he did, but then I'm not a big fan of his anyways.
#45 Pashalik_Mons Dec 09, 2010 2:57:05	Surely I can't be the only person who considers the idea of certain (usually ugly, brutish and dark-skinned) sapient humanoid races being restricted to evil alignments and literally incapable of heroism to be not only very stupid, but also seriously offensive? Are there really people here who want to return us to the days when those who were into fantasy and RPGs were accused (with some justification) of wanting to justify racism? People who think single-alignment races are a good idea need to seriously examine what that attitude says about them. I mean, even Tolkien recognised the unfortunate implications of the way he portrayed his orcs (hence why he eventually ret-conned them as an artificial race of corrupted elves). I'm with you. Have been for years. Been carrying around a quote about it in my sig.