Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 thestupacabra May 06, 2009 10:42:29	Seriously, if you're able to do so, go take a peek at page 67 of the Forgotten Realm's Player's Guide, which should detail the Umbriri PP for Swordmages... pay attention to the the encounter and daily attack powers on that page... pay very specific details to keywords for those aforementioned powers... Notice anything interesting? Shadow is listed as a keyword... Now, I spent a good bit of time last night looking this up. No source book that I currently have access to list Shadow as a damage type, nor as an affect type, keyword. So that leaves one other option... Could we be looking at a leak of the Shadow power source? I realize that Arcane is also listed within the keywords, and that it is a PP for Swordmage, but still, kinda leaves one thinking. This isn't the first time a PP or ED has offered a particular power source class a power from a different power source (I know Raven Herald was a PP for Rogue and it offers Divine powers)... Maybe I'm reading too much into this, maybe it is a bit of wishful thinking (I love the Shadow thematic stuff), but I'm thinking this may be some sort of confirmation that we're gonna see Shadow as a PH3 power source. I'm surprised no one else picked up on this. Was this something that was errata?
#2 salla May 06, 2009 10:45:49	The Shadow Captain in martial power also has the Shadow keyword in that path's powers.
#3 thestupacabra May 06, 2009 10:50:54	Reall? I missed that. I can't find it in the book. What page is it on?
#4 salla May 06, 2009 10:54:55	Reall? I missed that. I can't find it in the book. What page is it on? I'm AFB right now and can't check. It's a Warlord Paragon Path.
#5 thestupacabra May 06, 2009 10:59:46	I'm AFB right now and can't check. It's a Warlord Paragon Path. Eh, I'll look into it when I decide to get up off my duff and check for it. Really though, if that's two PP that are offering what looks to be Shadow source powers, I think it's a very good chance we'll looking at Shadow being a power source in PH3... Which would be awesome.
#6 salla May 06, 2009 11:04:18	Eh, I'll look into it when I decide to get up off my duff and check for it. Really though, if that's two PP that are offering what looks to be Shadow source powers, I think it's a very good chance we'll looking at Shadow being a power source in PH3... Which would be awesome. That's the speculation, at least, a combination of Shadow, psionics, and ki.
#7 the_badger_02 May 06, 2009 11:13:36	I thought it was in Manual of the Planes. Yep, just checked. Manual of the Planes. Page 146.
#8 thestupacabra May 06, 2009 11:24:06	I thought it was in Manual of the Planes. Yep, just checked. Manual of the Planes. Page 146. Ah, that explains why I couldn't find it. Unfortunately don't have access to that one atm, but I'll take your word for it.
#9 jacksmithiv May 06, 2009 11:56:56	Not sure how I feel about it all, really. I mean, there's really that much room for a range of shadow-based classes? I mean, it seems like a stretch. They'd have to reach a little far.
#10 praion May 06, 2009 12:27:32	Not sure how I feel about it all, really. I mean, there's really that much room for a range of shadow-based classes? I mean, it seems like a stretch. They'd have to reach a little far. "Ninja" Necromancer Life-Leecher Shadowdancer Blackguard (as a new class, not Paladin with Necrotic instead of Radiant) Shadowbender Voodo-Priest Witch
#11 thestupacabra May 06, 2009 12:27:56	Not sure how I feel about it all, really. I mean, there's really that much room for a range of shadow-based classes? I mean, it seems like a stretch. They'd have to reach a little far. Well, it's stated right in the PH that Shadow is a source that they plan on doing things with. Aside from that, there have been several other sources that have stated Shadow will be a forthcoming power source. That being said, there's still plenty of room for classes based on the Shadow source. You have to get past the fundamental assumption that Shadow inherently equals stealth. It's been said that the Shadow source will strongly tie in with the Shadowfell, and that it might include such things as Necromancy and other "darker" staples of the fantasy genre. I could see classes such as the Hexblade, Blackguard, Necromancer, and Shadowdancer easily being tied to the Shadow power source...
#12 rikiji May 06, 2009 12:29:27	Not sure how I feel about it all, really. I mean, there's really that much room for a range of shadow-based classes? I mean, it seems like a stretch. They'd have to reach a little far. It's one of the power sources announced in the PH and I suspect that WotC had at least a plan of action for the power sources before they announced them.
#13 cadfan May 06, 2009 15:35:40	Well, 3e had at least two shadow powered classes already. The Shadowcaster himself, who sort of founded 3e's vision of shadow as a source of power, and the Shadow Hand discipline for swordsages. There was also the Shadow Dancer, and a number of prestige classes that mixed Shadow with regular PCs. So even just looking at 3e's material, there was a striker and a controller, and the controller covered a lot of material and could possibly be split into more than one class or have some of its abilities moved elsewhere.
#14 Belorin May 06, 2009 19:45:18	My nominees for Shadow classes are; Shadowcaster – Shadow controller Ninja – Shadow striker (mixed with shadowdancer) Necromancer – Shadow leader Shadowblade – Shadow defender (an offshoot of the Shadowcaster in ToM) Bel
#15 MusicOfCreation May 06, 2009 20:51:23	In Troll 2, the preacher told Joshua's grandfather to "go back to your kingdom of shadows". Maybe that could offer us some insight into the shadow power source.
#16 thestupacabra May 07, 2009 10:24:34	In Troll 2, the preacher told Joshua's grandfather to "go back to your kingdom of shadows". Maybe that could offer us some insight into the shadow power source. HA! I thought I was the only one who ever wasted $5 to rent that wretched movie! But yeah, that's what I think the Shadow source will represent. Not necessarily relating to shadows, but a "darker" power source... Going back to the 3e and 2e mythology, negative and positive energy were two fundamental energies that literally permeated the planes, via the Negative Energy and Positive Energy Plane. From what I've inferred with the 4e planar rehaul, it seems they kinda melded the Positive Energy Plane with the Feywild, and they are doing much the same thing with the Negative Energy Plane and The Shadowfell. And if we remember, Negative energy had a variety of effects, ranging from animating the dead, to inflicting damage, to wreaking all kinds of havoc via status effects. I'm suspecting that's much of what we'll see with the Shadow power source...
#17 CelticPaladin May 07, 2009 13:41:15	My nominees for Shadow classes are; Shadowcaster – Shadow controller Ninja – Shadow striker (mixed with shadowdancer) Necromancer – Shadow leader Shadowblade – Shadow defender (an offshoot of the Shadowcaster in ToM) Bel I am confused about Ninja. Ninja would be ki, wouldn't it? I've seen a lot of mention of Ninja as a shadow class. Is there a source for this? My understanding of ninja mythology would put them well within the ki area.
#18 williamhm75 May 07, 2009 13:56:49	I can see ninja being shadow rather than ki, especially if ki isnt just a dump for every asain theme. I can also see a true assasin class thats shadow especially after the art of the kill article. I wish they hadnt given wizard all those illusion powers Id like to have seen an illusionist class, but I can see why they did things the way they did.
#19 Malckuss May 07, 2009 16:16:46	They already defined shadow as a Power source in the Races and Classes book, and discuss it a bit more in the Manual of the Planes. I know some of the material in Races and classes was a bit mutable, but it is the more reliable than wild speculation.
#20 CelticPaladin May 07, 2009 18:05:09	I can see ninja being shadow rather than ki, especially if ki isnt just a dump for every asain theme. I can also see a true assasin class thats shadow especially after the art of the kill article. I wish they hadnt given wizard all those illusion powers Id like to have seen an illusionist class, but I can see why they did things the way they did. But I still don't understand why ninjas would be shadow. Ninjas in mythology use magic derived from ritualistic use of chi energy. They don't use necrotic power or draw upon the power of darkness or evil. Because they sneak around and use the shadow of night doesn't mean they should draw their power from the shadowfell.
#21 Mist-Bound May 07, 2009 18:41:09	You know what I don't get? Why just about everyone and his grandmother reckons the Necromancer will be the Shadow Leader. There's nothing remotely Leaderish about how they act- yes, from a tactical/thematic view they could be considered leaders with their undead minions depending on their commands, but from a gameplay point of view they're obviously Controllers- like Summoner Wizards from Arcane Power. If any Shadow Class is fit to be the Leader, it's the Illusionist, in my opinion (albeit as a secondary Controller). Their powers have primarily revolved around helping other party members with their spells. They also make more sense as "healers" than the Necromancer does- traditionally, the Necromancer sucks life from enemies or eats corpses and heals itself alone. The Illusionist could heal others through immediate interruption spells that lower damage taken or boost defense (cloaking the ally in an illusion so the enemy has a harder time hitting it), or bestowing temporary hit points (using illusion to deceive the ally so they don't realise how hurt they are)- which would lead to true healing at the higher levels (the illusion is so real it overwrites reality, or the enemy only struck an illusion).
#22 Grazel May 07, 2009 23:14:11	Alas I too watched Troll 2, I hate when a company makes a 'sequel' off a good movie and makes the second one totally horrible and having nothing to do with the first one other than borrowing it's good name and running it through the mud. As far as Shadow source it's easy to come up with shadow-themed classes really. Personally I don't see illusionists or ninja as shadow based. Illusions work on the psychic keyword as they trick the mind directly. A shadow 'illusion' caster is possible but they'd likely be creating semi-sentient shadow creatures or creating solid substances out of shadow not pure illusions. Ninja aren't drawing on shadows as others have said, just working within shadows. We could see a summoner dealing with shadows and undead (necromancer), a melee weilder of shadow (creating weapons and armor out of the substance of shadow), a caster who manipulates the shadows or generates bolts of necrotic energies. That's three classes easily and others could be created with a bit of thought (these were just off the top of my head).
#23 thestupacabra May 08, 2009 8:48:59	Given the nature of Shadow, and it's popularity with just about everyone, Necromancer is practically a shoe-in for the power source. That being said, I doubt we'll see Illusionist, as it's pretty much already been covered in Arcane Power. I'm not going to say it won't happen, as I could be wrong, but again, I doubt it. I highly doubt we'll see ninja as a Shadow class. The mythology is already too rooted in the Ki power source, as well as it's legacy from 3e. Alot of this is stemming from the assumption that Shadow automatically equals sneaky. Let's face it here, stealth has been accomplished by every other power source, it's not going to be the sole domain of Shadow. I'm thinking we'll see Ninja turn up as a Ki class, though, IMHO, I don't think it needs to be covered as anything more than a refluffed rogue (as most any things from Oriental Adventures). I say the same thing about Assassin, for the most part, as well as WoTC seems to be giving Assassin more as a PP thing. Afterall, assassin is more of a role, as nearly any class can be envisioned as an assassin. Now, all that being said, aside from Necromancer, I'll eat my DMG if we don't see Hexblade get treatment as a Shadow class. It's already been stated that WoTC plans to cover it with a much different power source. And honestly, I can't see any other source being appropriate for Hexblade. What I suspect here is that we'll see Hexblade combined with Blackguard. Blackguard is a very popular class, as well as a staple in D&D; but given WoTC's new policy on alignment, I don't think they'd outright release a class that's so traditionally associated with evil. So, here's my speculation for the Shadow source... Pretty much Guaranteed: Necromancer (Controller, secondary leader) Very likely possible: Hexblade/Blackguard (Striker or Defender, with a secondary role in either) Possibilities: Shadowdancer or something similar (Striker, secondary role controller) Beguiler (Leader, secondary controller) Anyway, thems is my thoughts on it.
#24 Belorin May 08, 2009 10:21:56	I think one of the main problems is people are still getting hung up on 3.x names. Time and again WotC has taken a class like ranger, stripped it down to what makes it a ranger and reimagined it. With the coming of power sources and party roles, it makes it easier to place. Rangers are basically warriors known for specific fighting styles, no divine or nature powers needed. Druids got split into two classes, druid and warden. Classes like ninja and soulknife may receive the same treatment. Bel