Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 trulock1 Mar 04, 2009 15:41:33	http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_T9n9y1_Lkfs/SaSlGKvugxI/AAAAAAAAApg/1p2uNGdRrJ8/s1600-h/120742_SteveArgyle.jpg Found this on John Shindehette's blog.
#2 salla Mar 04, 2009 15:49:44	It's a good thing art is only guidelines, 'cause those two ain't nearly shiftery enough for me. New Rule: Wayne Reynolds is the only artist who gets to draw shifters.
#3 doctorhook Mar 04, 2009 16:34:23	It's not a bad picture, but given that the differences between Human and Shifter are (supposed to be) pretty subtle, we'd need a closer look to determine exactly how "shifter-y" these two are. Still, if someone told me that these two were Shifters, I could believe it. (I'd say that it's obvious they're not currently manifesting their Shifter-abilities, though.)
#4 halsfield Mar 04, 2009 16:36:41	is it known yet if they are releasing new shifter variants or just expanding on the razorclaw and longtooth ?
#5 doctorhook Mar 04, 2009 16:59:50	is it known yet if they are releasing new shifter variants or just expanding on the razorclaw and longtooth ? AFAIK, there hasn't been any word on how many variants there will be in 4E. FWIW though, there were more than those two in 3E, so anything's possible I suppose. (We do know that they're all getting a single entry in PH2, regardless of how many there are, although that fact on its own tells us basically nothing. :P)
#6 yusakuasano Mar 04, 2009 18:10:12	as it seems... i am the only one that loved that pic! :D
#7 wizardmon Mar 04, 2009 18:38:23	I don't love it, but I kind of like how it looks kinda Greek. Really a neat spin on the feel of shifters.
#8 fenrir7139 Mar 04, 2009 18:44:29	To those of you saying they aren't animalistic enough... LOOK AT THEIR DAMN FEET! FEET! FEET!
#9 marius4 Mar 04, 2009 19:06:07	as it seems... i am the only one that loved that pic! :D No way. I think it rocks and looks well done. I noticed the feet, feet, feet right away, too. AFAIK, there hasn't been any word on how many variants there will be in 4E. FWIW though, there were more than those two in 3E, so anything's possible I suppose. (We do know that they're all getting a single entry in PH2, regardless of how many there are, although that fact on its own tells us basically nothing. :P) How variant are the variants, mechanically? Do we have info on this? What if in PH2 they just had a racial power like "Animalistic Attack" where you use your to attack a foe? Would that work? I vaguely remember a shifter preview from a while back.....did they in fact have different racial powers like the 5 genasi powers?
#10 ddraig_goch_dup Mar 04, 2009 19:08:16	SWEET! That picture is awesome. The chick is especially badass. He seems to have captured them perfectly, largely human looking with animalistic tones. Part of what makes shifters so interesting is the duality of their existence (sounds more pretentious than I mean it to be), and the changes in their appearance are an important representation of that. If they don't look mostly "normal" at rest then that duality gets watered down. Shifting is a violent rejection of the illusions of civilization, so its important those illusions are their to begin with.
#11 ieattrollsforbreakfast Mar 04, 2009 19:10:18	Some more shifter details are emerging now that the PHB2 has surfaced. It turns out there are two shifters in there, the longtooth and razorclaw, and they are very similar to the MM varieties, with some minor differences.
#12 That_Blasted_Somoflange Mar 04, 2009 19:40:29	Some more shifter details are emerging now that the PHB2 has surfaced. It turns out there are two shifters in there, the longtooth and razorclaw, and they are very similar to the MM varieties, with some minor differences. That the name of their powers actually makes sense with what kind of shifter they are? Or should we have a longstride shifter in the future that grows claws?
#13 ddraig_goch_dup Mar 04, 2009 19:43:28	That the name of their powers actually makes sense with what kind of shifter they are? Or should we have a longstride shifter in the future that grows claws? I also long for more information. I also hope the names actually make sense!
#14 doctorhook Mar 04, 2009 20:25:04	How variant are the variants, mechanically? Do we have info on this? What if in PH2 they just had a racial power like "Animalistic Attack" where you use your to attack a foe? Would that work? I vaguely remember a shifter preview from a while back.....did they in fact have different racial powers like the 5 genasi powers? IIRC, there hasn't actually been a Shifter "preview" per se; they do appear as NPC races in the Monster Manual, however. There, Longtooth and Razorclaw Shifters share a number of similarities, but also have differences. For example, they both gain a bonus to Wisdom, but one gains a bonus to Strength and the other to Dexterity; for another example, both have a racial power which is usable when bloodied, but the powers are different. I assume that the Shifters in PH2 will be varied along these lines (as has been typical of NPC-turned-PC races in 4E, and I also believe it will resemble the presentation that the Genasi race received.
#15 doctorhook Mar 04, 2009 21:30:27	NEWS FLASH: There are only two Shifter "types" presented in PH2, and they are largely identical to the MM versions, but with a couple tweaks to the powers that make them better. Also, they have a badass racial Paragon Path. This is according to a fellow at ENWorld who's talking about his advanced copy: http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/251752-players-handbook-2-i-haz.html
#16 TheLoneCleric Mar 04, 2009 22:01:20	This is according to a fellow at ENWorld who's talking about his advanced copy: http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/251752-players-handbook-2-i-haz.html He's/or someone like him is in RPG.net as well.
#17 yusakuasano Mar 05, 2009 2:48:03	NEWS FLASH: There are only two Shifter "types" presented in PH2, and they are largely identical to the MM versions, but with a couple tweaks to the powers that make them better. Also, they have a badass racial Paragon Path. This is according to a fellow at ENWorld who's talking about his advanced copy: http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/251752-players-handbook-2-i-haz.html enorld seems down to me... can u pls tell us the powers?
#18 twinbahamut Mar 05, 2009 2:52:58	I like this new shifter art, which is more than I could say for the old shifter art. Nice improvement. So the only two shifters in the PHB2 are the longtooth and razorclaw? That is a bit of a shame, really, but I can understand that they wanted to limit themselves to a short list.
#19 tallric_kruush Mar 05, 2009 14:02:29	Uh. I'm sorry to say I don't like it. The female shifter is kind of nice, but the male shifter is...not to my liking. I don't like the feet at all, though I do like the concept I believe he trying to achieve. The 3E shifter artwork varied in quality; some was great, other bits were refuse. The best shifter art I've ever seen is the cover art done for The Dragon Below Eberron trilogy. In particular, the cover of The Binding Stone is amazing. The shifter character, Geth, is a Beasthide shifter . These shifters' traits primarily manifest as thickened hide and sheer toughness. The artist's name is Michael Komarck. I think all his work is amazing. I'd love to have a supplement with nothing but his work, to be honest. There are other artists I like, but his work is so life-like. The shifter image I loved is the first picture under the "Books" category on his site. Links below! See Geth, Dandra, and Singe here: http://www.komarckart.com/bk_cov01.html These three are a Kalashtar psion, a Shifter warrior, and a human Aundairian Wizard/Gish, respectively. The cover of book three shows them battling a tainted bronze dragon while aloft in an airship: http://www.komarckart.com/bk_cov17.html This guy's stuff is beautiful.
#20 the_storyteller Mar 05, 2009 14:59:15	The Cons/Wis Shifter (beasthide) will probably come in the Eberron players guide. Probably.
#21 salla Mar 05, 2009 17:34:19	It's a good pic, but Wayne Reynolds definitely draws what, for me, is the definitive Shifter. Then again, some shifters can be more humany, some can be more furry. Depends on what the player of the shifter wants.
#22 dark080matter Mar 06, 2009 7:48:09	Wayne Reynolds definitely draws the definitive Shifter. QFT. Axe-wielding psycho leaping off of the sky-ship, screaming like a lunatic. Wishing this picture came out larger, because Reynold's artwork has amazing detail.
#23 bertman4 Mar 06, 2009 10:10:18	The shifter character, Geth, is a Beasthide shifter . These shifters' traits primarily manifest as thickened hide and sheer toughness. The artist's name is Michael Komarck. I think all his work is amazing. I'd love to have a supplement with nothing but his work, to be honest. There are other artists I like, but his work is so life-like. The shifter image I loved is the first picture under the "Books" category on his site. Links below! See Geth, Dandra, and Singe here: http://www.komarckart.com/bk_cov01.html I love Geth. But that drawing is incorrect. Geth, as you mentioned, is a Beasthide shifter. See his Razorclaws in that drawing? And where is his Great Gauntlet? My Mark of Heroes PC was a Beasthide Shifter. I do hope some of the other variants are in the Eberron Campaign Setting. Bertman
#24 trulock1 Mar 06, 2009 12:37:33	A PH2 advertizement link from the front page is displaying this image.
#25 l0rdkudzu Mar 06, 2009 13:04:08	The Spirit Companion there looks amazing. On Topic: The feral nature of the shifters looks suitably understated in the female warrior but the male who is crouched in front looks to be in the midst of his shift as he is much more animalistic. I dig it.
#26 salla Mar 06, 2009 13:08:24	The Spirit Companion there looks amazing. On Topic: The feral nature of the shifters looks suitably understated in the female warrior but the male who is crouched in front looks to be in the midst of his shift as he is much more animalistic. I dig it. I think that's one of each of the PHB races (if you're referring to the pic Trulock posted). From lowest head to highest, I think that's ... A shifter, a gnome, a half-orc, a deva, and a goliath.
#27 l0rdkudzu Mar 06, 2009 13:12:49	I think that's one of each of the PHB races (if you're referring to the pic Trulock posted). From lowest head to highest, I think that's ... A shifter, a gnome, a half-orc, a deva, and a goliath. Which certainly makes sense... if that's the case then there doesn't seem to be too much that screams Orc about the middle character (the female with the axe).
#28 the_badger_02 Mar 06, 2009 14:14:44	Nothing I'd say specifically says orc, but there's somethign about the mouth that I'd say would be evidence of Tusks, and I'd definitely say not quite human. Whose Spirit Companion would you say that is?
#29 l0rdkudzu Mar 06, 2009 14:32:14	My initial thought was the deva's but that was proximity. The deva is pretty clearly an invoker. I think the goliath is a warden; the gnome is a sorcerer. That leaves the half-orc and the shifter. The half-orc has a big axe so I'm thinking barbarian. I guess that leaves the (apparently) unarmed shifter in the foreground. The same shifter that is about to become the lunch of the dragon in the upper left corner.
#30 marius4 Mar 06, 2009 15:04:10	IMHO, the deva looks just fine as a shaman and in fact is covered in primal-ish feathers (from arrows and adornments). We've also had a deva shaman as a sample character before, and within this artwork itself proximity + coloring really seems imply some sort of connection between the deva and the spirit animal. Nothing seems to say it has to be an invoker to me. That's just how I read the image, though. Back to shifters, ah...the central character is a half-orc. I see. I thought there were two shifters at first.
#31 l0rdkudzu Mar 06, 2009 15:13:21	I thought there were two shifters at first. Me too. I'm not sure if the issue is with not having a clear idea of what Shifters should look like, or not having a clear idea of what Half-Orcs should look like.
#32 trulock1 Mar 06, 2009 15:19:30	The girl with the axe is a half orc. They look a lot more human now.:D
#33 marius4 Mar 06, 2009 15:24:08	Lol. This discussion is getting funny.
#34 trulock1 Mar 06, 2009 15:29:56	Here's another pic from the Ph2( also from John's site). It's a half- orc from another artist. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_T9n9y1_Lkfs/SaSlhI7_PPI/AAAAAAAAArg/P4WkpuBlH8o/s1600-h/122999_JohnStanko.jpg
#35 Cyvaris Mar 06, 2009 15:40:35	lazy eyes are scary.
#36 marius4 Mar 06, 2009 15:50:28	Oh, I think I know him. @Cyvaris: Please stay on topic. That's a shifty eye there. :P
#37 salla Mar 06, 2009 15:56:52	My initial thought was the deva's but that was proximity. The deva is pretty clearly an invoker. I think the goliath is a warden; the gnome is a sorcerer. That leaves the half-orc and the shifter. The half-orc has a big axe so I'm thinking barbarian. I guess that leaves the (apparently) unarmed shifter in the foreground. The same shifter that is about to become the lunch of the dragon in the upper left corner. He has a hammer in his right hand.
#38 the_storyteller Mar 06, 2009 16:43:32	At the end of this game you can see the new artwork for each of the eight new classes in the PHB 2 (the artwork beside the class description). http://www.wizards.com/dnd/class/index.asp It's very easy to bring the class that you want. For example, barbarian: just look for primal and strikerish sentences. The barbarian artwork is pretty lame. Sad that there is no goliath, shifter or half-orc illustrations. Avenger and invoker are the best IMO. The avenger is deva (possibly you all already know this) barbarian is a human bard - tiefling druid - elf invoker - deva (the artwork on the invoker preview) shaman - dwarf sorcerer - human/half-elf? warden - human Oh, almost forgot! the artificer artwork can be viewed too and it's an female eladrin (maybe the second build is int/dex). cool huh
#39 ranadiel Mar 06, 2009 19:37:29	At the end of this game you can see the new artwork for each of the eight new classes in the PHB 2 (the artwork beside the class description). http://www.wizards.com/dnd/class/index.asp It's very easy to bring the class that you want. For example, barbarian: just look for primal and strikerish sentences. The barbarian artwork is pretty lame. Sad that there is no goliath, shifter or half-orc illustrations. Avenger and invoker are the best IMO. The avenger is deva (possibly you all already know this) barbarian is a human bard - tiefling druid - elf invoker - deva (the artwork on the invoker preview) shaman - dwarf sorcerer - human/half-elf? warden - human Oh, almost forgot! the artificer artwork can be viewed too and it's an female eladrin (maybe the second build is int/dex). cool huh You talking about these?:D Oh and that isn't the artificer image, or at least I doubt it is. That is just part of the cover to the second digital issue of Dragon(where the Artificer playtest is). I doubt they will be reusing that art in that capacity.
#40 l0rdkudzu Mar 06, 2009 20:29:17	I'm pretty sure that's the bard.
#41 doctorhook Mar 06, 2009 20:43:30	I'm pretty sure that's the bard. Which one? The bard is the top right picture, of the female tiefling with the harp. The Artificer picture we were talking about comes from the Dragon Magazine playtest of the Artificer. We're discussing whether or not the same art will be used when the official version appears in the Eberron Player's Guide.
#42 ranadiel Mar 06, 2009 20:56:09	Which one? The bard is the top right picture, of the female tiefling with the harp. The Artificer picture we were talking about comes from the Dragon Magazine playtest of the Artificer. We're discussing whether or not the same art will be used when the official version appears in the Eberron Player's Guide. To be more specific this image: However we are getting sort of off topic here....
#43 tallric_kruush Mar 06, 2009 21:30:57	It's a good pic, but Wayne Reynolds definitely draws what, for me, is the definitive Shifter. Then again, some shifters can be more humany, some can be more furry. Depends on what the player of the shifter wants. I think I just prefer my shifters a little more human looking. I want them to look human-like with the golden, leonine eyes they're described as having. They're described as having thick body hair, that gets even thicker when they shift. I never read anything about fur. I usually like Wayne's work, but I don't care for his shifters at all. Again, that's just me. I love Geth. But that drawing is incorrect. Geth, as you mentioned, is a Beasthide shifter. See his Razorclaws in that drawing? And where is his Great Gauntlet? He's wearing the gauntlet. I'm pretty sure that's what you're mistaking for claws. Look closer. ;) My Mark of Heroes PC was a Beasthide Shifter. I do hope some of the other variants are in the Eberron Campaign Setting. Based on the feats I've seen from PH2, I don't think we'll be seeing more than the two shifters we already know about. Here's why: We have +2Str/Wis and +2Dex/Wis. Though it may be useful for some builds (such as Warden), +2Con is significantly less useful, overall, than the other two in 4E. In many cases, Constitution isn't as universally valuable as it was in 3E. Take a look at those shifter feats in PH2. There, built into the feats, are many of the qualities that were present in the various shifters of 3E. Heck, the Longtooth in the Monster Manual is really an amalgam of the Beasthide and Longtooth, with regeneration while shifting. That had me suspicious from the start, and these PH2 feats have convinced me that these will be our baseline shifters. I could be wrong, but I figured I may as well get my prediction on record, so to speak.
#44 celticmutt Mar 07, 2009 0:14:16	When the convention scans of the Avenger came out I thought it was a Deva. That picture though, which is quite a bit brighter & easier to see detail in, well it looks almost like a shifter. He's got that indent between nose and mouth that you see in the shifter art where their noses & mouths are a human-muzzle mix. Probably a deva, but kinda looks shifter.
#45 ranadiel Mar 07, 2009 6:12:41	When the convention scans of the Avenger came out I thought it was a Deva. That picture though, which is quite a bit brighter & easier to see detail in, well it looks almost like a shifter. He's got that indent between nose and mouth that you see in the shifter art where their noses & mouths are a human-muzzle mix. Probably a deva, but kinda looks shifter. Actually I've been thinking that it might be a shifter also since I was able to get a better look at it. Really the only thing that makes me think Deva at this point is the eyes. Otherwise I would say it is definatly a shifter.
#46 l0rdkudzu Mar 07, 2009 7:04:38	The bulges in the hood however, seem indicative of a tiefling as does the relatively flat face. Edit: And yes, I guess I wasn't following about the Artificer picture. I had thought that someone was suggesting the Bard image was intended for Eberron's favorite class.
#47 townleystreet Mar 07, 2009 7:36:24	Ok, I'm looking at the Avenger picture PHB 2, page 32. It is a shifter. Hooded, curvy sword, shifter. The shifters in PHB 2 mainly look like thundercats. Just so you know. The Deva is an Invoker, and the Tiefling is a bard. They are all the class pictures used in the book.
#48 tallric_kruush Mar 07, 2009 9:38:31	The shifters in PHB 2 mainly look like thundercats. Just so you know. That sucks. Oh, well.
#49 That_Blasted_Somoflange Mar 07, 2009 10:14:46	That sucks. Oh, well. Excuse me? Thundercats Rock! Sure the main character, Lion-O, is a 12 year old kid trapped in a 32 year old male strippers body. But, it is easily one of the most consistent cartoons from the 1980's with overarching story lines and recurring villains. Not to mention, if you find the outtakes online unless you have no soul, you'll be laughing. So in honour of Thundercats.. Thunder. Thunder! THUNDER! THUNDERCATS HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
#50 azraelthedark Mar 07, 2009 11:22:25	http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_T9n9y1_Lkfs/SaSlGKvugxI/AAAAAAAAApg/1p2uNGdRrJ8/s1600-h/120742_SteveArgyle.jpg Found this on John Shindehette's blog. I, for one, absolutely love that picture! That's pretty much how I figured shifters to be. Sorry but I'm not a fan of the X-Men Wolverine Style. :P
#51 Alex_ Mar 07, 2009 11:41:03	What's with the lack of Halfling iconics (and Halfling art in general). With their travelling traditions and reverence for Melora, the goddess of nature, you'd think that there could be more potential for them in the PHBII. Heck, they're barely using the primal-themed races they just introduced. No Shifters, Gnomes, Half-Orcs, or Goliaths in the class art. I know Humans are supposed to be popular and Elves are supposed to be common, but we've all seen them in a thousand different outfits before. We need a greater variety of art featuring the other races.
#52 comicbooker Mar 07, 2009 14:11:55	I'm actually pretty sure that the only new races not represented are the Goliath and the Half-Orc. I think it is incredible weird that these races aren't represented but the Gnome and Shifters are definitely both there. First the Barbarian is pretty clearly not a human but a Gnome. Check out the troll-doll hair and the red nose. Also the Warden could be a Gnome too but I'm not as sure as I am with the Barbarian. Second the Avenger is a Shifter. He has the nose, eyebrows, and facial structure of a Shifter. The eyes could throw you off but I think it is suppose to be like cat eyes glowing in the dark. Why they went with Gnome for Barbarian instead of the classic Half-Orc is beyond me but that's how I see the images.
#53 l0rdkudzu Mar 07, 2009 15:02:48	Aside from these 8 images on 8 pages, I'm sure that we'll see a ton of other illustrations of the character classes and races in a number of different combinations. Obviously, this selection of 8 pictures will be highly influential as I'm sure they'll be the most commonly seen, but there will be much more art throughout the text.
#54 awesome_dude Mar 07, 2009 15:04:02	First the Barbarian is pretty clearly not a human but a Gnome. Check out the troll-doll hair and the red nose. Also the Warden could be a Gnome too but I'm not as sure as I am with the Barbarian. No pointed ears, pupils present => Not a gnome. It's a halfling.
#55 comicbooker Mar 07, 2009 15:11:14	No pointed ears, pupils present => Not a gnome. It's a halfling. OK, I'll submit based on ears. Didn't see those. Still others support the Avenger Shifter. Still that Halfling has a bad case of Gnome-head.
#56 Marandahir Mar 07, 2009 15:27:37	Thundercats = Awesome. Exactly the direction I wanted Shifters to go. Catfolk. What's more, Catfolk who can go freaky-cat on yours. And we can sing the Thunder thunder thunder thunder, thunder thunder thunder thunder, thunder thunder thunder thunder CATS!!!! Yesssss.
#57 celticmutt Mar 07, 2009 16:14:38	I, for one, absolutely love that picture! That's pretty much how I figured shifters to be. Sorry but I'm not a fan of the X-Men Wolverine Style. :P You mean those book covers? Looks more like Sabretooth to me. ;)
#58 That_Blasted_Somoflange Mar 07, 2009 16:24:07	Well, reading the thread on RPGnet, I'm really disappointed with how the shifters are done. Honestly, I wasn't expecting much. Interestingly they were the race I was most looking forward to, and Deva the least. With all the info shown through various sources, it became the opposite. Don't get me wrong, I love the art direction for shifters, but since I can't seem to have a shifter that grows claws, I'm kinda disappointed - especially since the razorclaw shifter name was used. Oh well, there's only a half dozen character concepts I won't be using since the race no longer interests me.
#59 tallric_kruush Mar 07, 2009 20:36:16	You mean those book covers? Looks more like Sabretooth to me. ;) I'd say either is a good fit. Alas, I seem to be among the minority in favoring this look. Most significantly, the chosen artwork all seems to lean in other direction, as well. That means most gamers will envision "thundercats", now. Oh, well. It's not exactly the end of the world. I'm thrilled to see one of my favorite races growing beyond Eberron into the "Core" category.
#60 bjornfellhanded Mar 08, 2009 0:41:00	Well when I think Shifters I think furry, yes I understand most people feelings about 'furs'. I just hate taking a half step in animalistic characters, for me its I am CLEARLY beastly, fur, tail, eyes and what have you or I am a savage human and/or whatever.
#61 viktor_von_doom Mar 08, 2009 3:21:14	Well, reading the thread on RPGnet, I'm really disappointed with how the shifters are done. Honestly, I wasn't expecting much. Interestingly they were the race I was most looking forward to, and Deva the least. With all the info shown through various sources, it became the opposite. Don't get me wrong, I love the art direction for shifters, but since I can't seem to have a shifter that grows claws, I'm kinda disappointed - especially since the razorclaw shifter name was used. Oh well, there's only a half dozen character concepts I won't be using since the race no longer interests me. Ditto, Shifters in 4E are pretty lame.
#62 tallric_kruush Mar 08, 2009 12:10:05	Well when I think Shifters I think furry, yes I understand most people feelings about 'furs'. I just hate taking a half step in animalistic characters, for me its I am CLEARLY beastly, fur, tail, eyes and what have you or I am a savage human and/or whatever. One of the main conceits of the 3E shifter was that while they are humanoids with lycanthropic heritage, they aren't true shape changers and can take neither animal form, nor hybrid form. These furry shifters look like hybrid-form lycanthropes, to me. I think that's a major reason why I don't like the look. I also just tend to prefer "realistic" looking characters in general. Azrael's likening the picture I linked to Wolverine or Sabretooth is really pretty accurate. They are definitely, in appearance, animalistic looking humans. I think this fits the 3E fluff better. It definitely fits my preference better. Fluff changes, though, and my opinion is one among millions. I hope there are some good works down the road, though, that still portray shifters as I like them. They've been few and far between, to this point, and it would be cool to see a few more in the future.
#63 Alex_ Mar 08, 2009 12:44:17	One of the main conceits of the 3E shifter was that while they are humanoids with lycanthropic heritage, they aren't true shape changers and can take neither animal form, nor hybrid form. These furry shifters look like hybrid-form lycanthropes, to me. I think that's a major reason why I don't like the look. I also just tend to prefer "realistic" looking characters in general. Azrael's likening the picture I linked to Wolverine or Sabretooth is really pretty accurate. They are definitely, in appearance, animalistic looking humans. I think this fits the 3E fluff better. It definitely fits my preference better. Fluff changes, though, and my opinion is one among millions. I hope there are some good works down the road, though, that still portray shifters as I like them. They've been few and far between, to this point, and it would be cool to see a few more in the future. Actually, if you compare the images side by side... images of shifters This image Isn't much different from... or From the Eberron Campaign Setting book. They look pretty much the same.
#64 tallric_kruush Mar 08, 2009 13:46:03	Actually, if you compare the images side by side... images of shifters This image Isn't much different from... or From the Eberron Campaign Setting book. They look pretty much the same.
#65 propane Mar 08, 2009 14:21:57	I remember seeing a LOT of threads - before 4e came out - begging for:- A: Kobolds as PCs B: Catpeople as PCs WotC delivered. Edit: I had a Shifter Longtooth before I saw it was going to be a PHB2 race. I have never played 3.5 so the only Shifter art I had seen at that point was in the Monster Manual. I'm going to have to change my description now =\
#66 tallric_kruush Mar 08, 2009 14:59:56	I remember seeing a LOT of threads - before 4e came out - begging for:- A: Kobolds as PCs B: Catpeople as PCs WotC delivered. Edit: I had a Shifter Longtooth before I saw it was going to be a PHB2 race. I have never played 3.5 so the only Shifter art I had seen at that point was in the Monster Manual. I'm going to have to change my description now =\ Yeah, I recall that "Cat People" thread. Though I could be wrong, the OP half intended it as a joke, and it ended up really gaining momentum. The furry art seems to be very popular. As long as it helps the game, even if it is in a small way, I'm in favor of it. I don't need the artwork to match my conceptions, after all. I'll keep using the art I like as a basis for describing my PCs, just as our group still uses the tieflings of previous editions, in terms of appearance.
#67 salla Mar 08, 2009 18:48:14	Yeah, I recall that "Cat People" thread. Though I could be wrong, the OP half intended it as a joke, and it ended up really gaining momentum. The furry art seems to be very popular. As long as it helps the game, even if it is in a small way, I'm in favor of it. I don't need the artwork to match my conceptions, after all. I'll keep using the art I like as a basis for describing my PCs, just as our group still uses the tieflings of previous editions, in terms of appearance. Well said. I don't see any reason that Shifters can't be all along the spectrum of 'humanish' to 'animalistic'. If a lycanthropic heritage doesn't generate unstable genetics, nothing will.
#68 doctorhook Mar 10, 2009 12:05:05	Update on additional Shifter types (from 3.5E): PH2 includes two Paragon racial feats for Shifters, one called "Beasthide Shifting", the other "Cliffwalk Shifting". I guess there goes the hope of having those Shifter variants reappear as distinct from Longtooth and Razorclaw.
#69 tallric_kruush Mar 10, 2009 12:09:26	Update on additional Shifter types (from 3.5E): PH2 includes two Paragon racial feats for Shifters, one called "Beasthide Shifting", the other "Cliffwalk Shifting". I guess there goes the hope of having those Shifter variants reappear as distinct from Longtooth and Razorclaw. Yep. This is exactly what I'd expected. Maybe it's not what I'd hoped, on some level, but it's exactly in line with the 4E approach of limiting the proliferation of "subraces". I'm going to have to read the descriptor on Beasthide, as they were my favorite in 3E. Man, this last week of waiting for PH2 is trying. I've been ill, and could've used all this wasted time to roll up PH2 PCs. EDIT: Gain resist 2 to all damage during racial power. It's simple, and captures Beasthide pretty well, I guess. Slap the Beasthide Shifting feat on a Longtooth Shifter, and you pretty much have the Beasthide Shifter of 3E. Some of these feats look amazing, both for their mechanical benefits, and for their opening up choices for previously suboptimal character builds. I'm not really a hardcore optimizer, but many concepts would lead to ineptitude and/or death. It would seem that the designers are taking steps to rectify that situation. I can't wait to get my hands on this book.
#70 mortris Dec 06, 2009 8:29:20	I liked the pic too. I just think that 4E definitely needs to expand with Shifter's class abilities, feats and shfting. Which they should of done in Primal Power!! I really like shifters though, probably one of my favourite races in Dnd. I also like how in 3E you can make a Shifter that can slowly evolve into a lycanthrope, very fancy indeed. Are there lycanthrope options for PCs in 4E? But yeah, the feet. Definitely shows animalism. The girl looks better done than the guy, though.
#71 Valien Dec 06, 2009 13:42:52	Are there lycanthrope options for PCs in 4E? Maybe their Racial Paragon Path, Moonstalker?
#72 LordofKhyber Dec 08, 2009 11:51:37	I do have to agree with people saying that the shifters were really weak. I don't agree with how they did the shifters. They really needed an extra feature other than their racial power.
#73 chanter_hound Dec 08, 2009 12:13:03	I do have to agree with people saying that the shifters were really weak. I don't agree with how they did the shifters. They really needed an extra feature other than their racial power. This is exactly my biggest complaint with Shifters by far. They are a statbag with a racial power. Why use a razorclaw when an elf has the same stats, and pretty close to similar movement? Or the Githzari?