Here's an explanation of each rating.
A: Love the class, and I want to play one right away, or as soon as possible!
B: Like the class, and while it may not quite be a first choice, I'd be happy to play one at some point.
C: Fairly neutral about the class, or don't have enough information to decide whether I'd like to play it or not
D: Don't like the class, and would only ever play it as a one-off, or if the group was desperate.
F: Class is a FAIL - I absolutely refuse to play it!
And here's my picks
Avenger: A
Barbarian: C
Bard: B
Druid: D
Invoker: B
Shaman: D
Sorcerer: A
Warden: C
Explanations for your grading choices are, of course, optional but welcome.
B : Invoker,
C : Bard, Shaman, Druid
D : Sorc
F : Barbarian
Barbarian: D
Bard: C
Druid: B
Invoker: B
Shaman: D
Sorcerer: A
Warden: A
Barbarian C
Bard B
Druid C
Invoker A
Shaman B
Sorcerer A
Warden C
I'm not the sort to say that I roundly dislike a class, but also I'm not really interested in Primal; I don't know why, but it just hasn't really captured my imagination as a theme, at the moment. (Give it some time; I'll probably be very interested in it after the next time I go camping. :P) Accordingly, I haven't given anything less than a C, and all of those are Primal.
Generally, I'm a pretty enthusiastic person.
B : Bard, Sorcerer
C : Shaman
D : Warden, Invoker
Barbarian: A :D
Bard: C Meh.
Druid: B :D
Invoker: B
Shaman: B I'm loving the Leader Role, and we'll see how this works.
Sorcerer: C *shrug* Looks cool. Witholding my judgement.
Warden: A The HPs, oh the HPs.
B: Bard, Invoker
C: Warden, Shaman, Druid, Sorceror
I've got no D's or F's; the C grade is just being used here as "not at all interesting to me."
Bard: A- Bards are awesome, and leaders are fun
Barbarian: B- pretty fun looking. I like to describe them as a "Ceramic Cannon"
Druid: B- I want new controllers
Invoker: B- Same as druid
Shaman: C- I like leaders, but just feel kinda "meh" about shamans.
Sorceror: B for Dex, C for STR- wild magic is more interesting/hilarious to me
Warden: D- This just doesn't look like a fun defender to me. I love fighters, and like paladins and swordmages, but these just don't seem that awesome to me
Sorcerer-A Wild magic for the win! Hopefully they'll come out with some new bloodline feats along the lines of the dhampyr ones, so I and others enamored of bloodline sorcerers can have our cake.
Bard-B No longer spoony, and full of interesting powers. I particularly like word of friendship.
Barbarian-B I like the flavor of the class, as essentially a servant of the spirit world. Sort of a more mystic counterpart to the Battlerager.
Invoker-A I love the theurgic feel of this class-while I'll probably be house ruling that they can be of any alignment (so people who want to play archivist type scholars of the divine can be happy) I'm extremely satisfied with the powers that I've seen
Druid-B My first D&D character was a druid/sorcerer and I'm happy that the Druid is coming back, now with a far more balanced suite of abilities and the same yummy flavor.
Warden-B While at first I thought this class had little fluff reason to exist, it eventually grew on me-I do enjoy playing characters are forces of nature, and this class is great for when I want to play a more stalwart druid.
Shaman-A Incredibly excited about this one, extremely customizable (especially since you can just refluff your animal spirit as an ancestor or as a bound ghost). Plus, I've always enjoyed playing "wise men", so it holds that appeal for me as well.
So to make a long story short, I'm extremely excited about the PHB 2 and will be buying it as soon as it comes out.
B: Invoker, Barbarian.
D: Sorcerer.
From what I can see? I am liking this book. The only reason the sorcerer is low is because it isn't my playstyle, I've got no problem with the class itself being there.
Barbarian: B. I like it. I like it quite a bit. I like playing tough characters, and I'll admit I'm not turned off by a character that hits hard... and this is a nice mix of the two.
Avenger: B. Another tough striker, and this one has abilities that can be used to protect its allies, which I like. I also like the light armour + high AC aspect. I might do some reflavouring and make a kung fu princess out of this one.
Warden: B. With a little reflavouring, it's a barbarian that's a defender instead of a striker. Think about it! Or maybe I'll talk my GM into letting me play a warden that shifts claws instead of using a sword. That'd be fun, too.
Shaman: C. I have a wizard/cleric who might fit this class with some reflavouring, but unlikely. I'll probably wait for the shadow or psionic leader instead.
Druid: C. I'm just not that interested. Maybe as a multiclass, though.
Sorcerer: C. I'm not too into strikers in general (the barbarian and avenger are exceptions), and this one just doesn't have anything that especially excites me. Maybe as a multiclass.
Invoker: C. Again, just not that interested. Maybe as a multiclass.
Avenger: A Looks like a lot of fun to play, period.
Barbarian: C I dunno. Looks alright, but... Eh, I'd probably reflavor raging somewhat.
Bard: C Cool-looking leader, but my personal favorite is the Warlord.
Druid: C Also nice-looking, but not my thing.
Invoker: B Probably my favorite of the three controllers we have so far.
Shaman: C Not my thing either.
Sorcerer: A I also like this guy. Both Dragon and Wild magic look awesome.
Warden: B This is my personal favorite of the Primal Classes. I hope more dailies are like the winter herald daily, so that maybe I could go with a guy who's mastered the seasons, or something like that.
Barbarian: B, I played the playtest, was pretty fun, but I'm not sure I'll come back to it any time soon.
Bard: A, it just looks fun.
Druid: C, just flat out neutral.
Invoker: A, I like the more direct wield the power of the gods feel it has.
Shaman: D, but very close to a C.
Sorceror: A, it seems I'm just an arcane fan.
Warden: D, same feelings as Shaman.
Sorcerer
B:
Invoker
Shaman
Barbarian
C:
Druid
Avenger
D:
Warden
F:
Bard (Not unless you tortured me)
Avenger: B - It looks cool, and the mechanic seems really good, but I have a distrust of anything that too many people get excited about, I guess that that is the true neutral in me.
Barbarian: F - It bores me.
Bard: B - It looks like fun, I could be convinced to play one for once.
Druid: A - Finally, non-wizard controllers, they really needed one more in the PHB. I also look forward to playing a Druid not as a nature sissy or eco-terrorist.
Invoker: A - The only question is if I play this or the Druid first. Old Testament prophets kicked serious butt.
Shaman: D - Meh.
Sorceror: C - Haven't seen enough, no real interest right now.
Warden: D/C - Less boring the the barbarian, but I would rather play a fighter or swordmage if I am defending.
- Avenger: B
- Barbarian: C
- Bard: B
- Druid: B
- Invoker: A
- Shaman: A
- Sorcerer: B
- Warden: B
In roleplay/thematic aspects:
- Avenger: B
- Barbarian: D
- Bard: C
- Druid: E
- Invoker: A
- Shaman: C
- Sorcerer: D
- Warden: B
Barbarian: C
Bard: C - I'm playing one right now, but I don't feel terribly attached
Druid: C
Invoker: C
Shaman: A - This one makes me sad that I'm taking over as DM.
Sorcerer: B
Warden: C
I don't really dislike any of the new offerings, but Avenger, Sorcerer, and especially Shaman are the only PHBII classes that I'm really excited to play at the moment. However, I'm sure once I see the mechanics one or two of the others will surprise me with something cool that sparks my imagination.
Avenger: C
I feel better than neutral about the class itself and I find the Oath interesting. I especially like the isolating abilities. But, I still don't want to play a Striker.
Barbarian: F
Blah. Not only is it a Striker, its as pure a striker as you're going to get. Seems like it only does damage and thats it. Boring.
Bard: C
I like leaders, and I like both Intelligence and Charisma. But, I don't know, what I've seen so far doesn't thrill me. This could easily become a B or even A to me when I see more.
Druid: C
New controller is good, but, I don't love the powers I've seen. Wildshape is exactly as I predicted it would be all those months ago, and I like it, but its not for me.
Invoker: B
A controller with powers I like and that actually control. I still think "Controllers" have less control than Leaders, though.
Shaman: B
The pet as a pet is not interesting to me. However, as a tactical tool, I find it intriguing. Plus, I like both primal and leaders in general, so yeah, I'll give it a shot.
Sorcerer: F
Pure Striker. Blah. Oh, area damage is enough to make just doing damage interesting...NO ITS NOT.
Warden: A
The most control from any Defender that I've seen so far, and the first Defender I actively want to try.
And, hey, why not, my PHB1 rankings:
Cleric: A
While they have weaker control over allies than a Warlord, they have stronger control over enemies. I still prefer Warlords, but Cleric is close second.
Fighter: B
They have a little extra control over groups than other Defenders thanks to stopping motion on OAs, but I'd prefer more "I control you" abilities and less "I'm really tough" and "I do lots of damage" powers.
Paladin: C
Their mark is surprisingly "Strikery" and they come across as a "more different Cleric." They have weaker control/leader abilities, and stronger "I'm tough" abilities. Blah.
Ranger: F-
The absolute least interesting class. "What do you do, Ranger?" "Damage." "Yeah, but everyone deals damage. What is your thing?" "Uh, more damage." PASS.
Rogue: D
More interesting than Rangers and Barbarians because they have any control at all and they at least require some strategic thinking to get their striker damage to land.
Warlock: D
Adequate control, but its generally only over one enemy and not the battle. Eh.
Warlord: A+
I don't think any class can impact a battle more than a Tactical Warlord. The other builds do pretty well, too, but I'd rather play a Cleric than a charisma Warlord.
Wizard: C
They are a "controller." I guess.
And from Forgotten Realms:
Swordmage: C
Eh. They take their definition of "control" from the same place that Wizard got it, so I'm not thrilled.
While they have weaker control over allies than a Warlord, they have stronger control over enemies. I still prefer Warlords, but Cleric is close second.
Fighter: B
They have a little extra control over groups than other Defenders thanks to stopping motion on OAs, but I'd prefer more "I control you" abilities and less "I'm really tough" and "I do lots of damage" powers.
Paladin: C
Their mark is surprisingly "Strikery" and they come across as a "more different Cleric." They have weaker control/leader abilities, and stronger "I'm tough" abilities. Blah.
Ranger: F-
The absolute least interesting class. "What do you do, Ranger?" "Damage." "Yeah, but everyone deals damage. What is your thing?" "Uh, more damage." PASS.
Rogue: D
More interesting than Rangers and Barbarians because they have any control at all and they at least require some strategic thinking to get their striker damage to land.
Warlock: D
Adequate control, but its generally only over one enemy and not the battle. Eh.
Warlord: A+
I don't think any class can impact a battle more than a Tactical Warlord. The other builds do pretty well, too, but I'd rather play a Cleric than a charisma Warlord.
Wizard: C
They are a "controller." I guess.
And from Forgotten Realms:
Swordmage: C
Eh. They take their definition of "control" from the same place that Wizard got it, so I'm not thrilled.
- Avenger: B
- Barbarian: C
- Bard: B
- Druid: A
- Invoker: C
- Shaman: A
- Sorcerer: C (Will change to B or A depending on how much I can alter it)
- Warden: A
As you can tell I am really liking the Primal classes. If future classes keep up the quality of Primal I will be quite happy. I also like how mutable the fluff is for them, you can make them more nature oriented, more spirit based, change the source of the spirits, etc, etc.
Avenger: D
Barbarian: C (I'm curious about the leadery build we haven't seen)
Bard: A (High Social + Good Heals = Win for me)
Druid: D
Invoker: D
Shaman: A (Different style of leader with strong healing, I am sold)
Sorcerer: D
Warden: C (I could make one at some point)
Overall, I am fairly dissapointed with the classes of PH2 and have little interest in playing most. However, the two I like I really like a lot.
I make premades for my players of eacch class with at least 2 builds per.
Sorceror - D (I haven't played the Warlock ye, which is more interesting, IMO)
Invoker - A
Avenger - B (Looks intriguing, but I'd rather play with the new controllers)
Druid - A
Shaman - C
Barbarian - D (Simply not my thing)
Warden - C
Avenger <3
Barbarian: A
Bard: B
Druid: A
Invoker: B
Shaman: A
Sorcerer: B
Warden: A
I'm such a fanboy... :D I really like what I have seen so far. I find them flavorful and interesting. I hated playing Wizards in earlier editions and I love the Wizard in 4e which is currently my main PC). The same could be said for the Druid. I hated them in earlier editions, now I look forward to playing one.
Barbarian: B
Bard: B
Druid: B
Invoker: C
Shaman: B
Sorcerer: B
Warden: C
To explain:
I've not got the Dragon previews, so i know very little about how the Invoker and Warden will function. The remainder of the classes, however, I'm about as interested in playing as the majority of the core classes. Which is to say, in 4th I'm having a hard time narrowing down the options for things I'd like to play.
Barbarian: B for Barbarian smash! Sorry I've always liked them
Bard: A++ The bard has always been my favorite class since 2e and it looks like this time WotC actually got it right
Druid: B I can't turn down a decently made classic class
Invoker: C Want to run through them just to see how they compare to the wizard
Shaman: B Again a classic class done decently, plus I want to see how these guys can be optimized, I see lots of numerical potential
Sorcerer: A I hated the 3.x sorcerers they were nothing more than cheap wizard knockoffs, but with the wild magic (which I've always liked) this version has potential
Warden: C I'm not sure how well these guys will compare to paladins, and I think the heavy armored paladin fits more to my liking than the "forest defender"
Divine > Primal > Arcane > Martial
I love the two new Divine classes, though I want to see more of Avenger before I really go crazy with concepts. Invoker is my favorite PH2 class so far.
Primal seems like lots of fun, I've messed with the Shaman and Barbarian a little bit. Barbarian is fun in that you basically charge, murder, charge, murder more, etc.. Shaman is interesting strategically. I would play a Druid in a sec if not for the Invoker, and Warden I like but want to see more before I really think about a character.
I tried Bard, but the caster build was boring to me. Perhaps if/when they get a melee build it could be fun. Sorcerer seems like it could be fun until you face the BBEG and accidentally blow up your own party.
Then Martial is still boring ol' Martial, obviously.
Barbarian: C
Bard: F
Druid: B
Invoker: A
Shaman: D
Sorcerer: F
Warden: F
I just can't see myself ever playing a Bard, Sorcerer or Warden. I may try a Dragonborn Dragonblood Sorcerer, but that seems too cliche. Shaman isn't really my thing - I'd rather play a Cleric if I'm going to be a leader. Barbarian... Well, it didn't impress me much, but I'm curious about the Thaneborn build. Druid gets a 'B' from me, mostly because it's the closest to an official Lycanthrope that we're likely to see. The Invoker and Avenger, though, I can't wait to play. Now if only I had a group to play with.
Barbarian: D
Bard: A
Druid: A
Invoker: C
Shaman: B
Sorcerer: A
Warden: C
Absolutely LOVE what's been done with the bard, and I kinda get a Seeker of the Song feel with some of the powers...and maybe Dirgesinger with that necromancy article. Totally want!
Druid...I shoot lightning...turn into a panther...I maul your face...nuff said
Wild magic makes me squee so hard! Dragonborn, human, elf, halfling, gnome, drow, shadar-kai...I wish to play them ALL as sorcerers at some point! Dragon magic is fun and all, but wild magic allows for more fun, more flavor, and more friendly fire!
Shaman looks rather fun, although I'm not too sure about it. We'll see
Avenger, Invoker, and Warden are so-so's. Divine isn't always my thing, and I kinda wish there was a more pacifistic divine option...seriously. And the Warden could be fun, but I'd rather be Druid and have the full shapeshifting going on.
Barbarian...well...I'll give it a shot, but I don't have great expectations.
I don't know why, but there has never been a class which captured my imagination as much as this since the rogue.
Barbarian: A
I have a long standing love for Barbarians, and I hated the way they were done in 3e. My favorite 2e character was a spear wielding Barbarian. And the Barbarians of 4e finally look worth playing again.
Bard: B
They look very neat.
Druid: C
They look kind of cool, but I have never been a huge Druid fan.
Invoker: C
They look kind of cool, but more like something I would multiclass into then a primary class I would want to play.
Shaman: A
I can't wait to make a Drow Shaman for Eberron. Pure witch doctor.
Sorcerer: B
They look neat.
Warden: C
Nothing about them really captures my imagination. Its not that I think they are a bad class... they are just not for me.
I am only interested in the 4 classes that should have also been represented in the 1st phb. Sorcerer, Barbarian, Druid and Bard.
The Invoker to me has a "blah" or uninteresting feeling/flavor. It is just there and doesn't stand out at all. The shaman seems like a mix between the "spirit shaman" from complete divine/OA and the druid from earlier editions. The avenger doesn't appeal to me since flavor-wise I always saw paladins as the one meeting out justice or revenge as the militant arm of their god. The Warden seems to be some weird attempt at making a primal defender so I am neutral with respect to that, but it doesn't stand out at all either.
We'll see in a month from now if the other classes make an impact. The only worry I have is that wotc might spread themselves too thin over two more phb's with 8 more classes each. Meaning that less dedication to support for phb1/2 classes.
Barbarian: C-. I thought the Barbarian should have been Martial, which means if I get an urge to play a 'barbarian', I'm more likely to play a Battlerager fighter.
Bard: F. Not interested.
Druid: B-. Mostly from interest in playing a druid who isn't a thinly veiled eco-terrorist. A rather ... civilized druid, in fact. Wild Shape will be ignored.
Invoker: D. Divine classes don't appeal to me in general.
Shaman. F. Spirit companion looks like a colossal pain in the butt.
Sorcerer: B+. Wild magic version only, though.
Warden: F. Like a druid, but you're stuck with the shapechanging. Pass.
Avenger: D-. Don't know much about it, but 'religious zealot assassin' doesn't appeal to me much. Divine characters don't do much for me in general, though.
Barbarian: C-. I thought the Barbarian should have been Martial, which means if I get an urge to play a 'barbarian', I'm more likely to play a Battlerager fighter.
Bard: F. Not interested .
Druid: B-. Mostly from interest in playing a druid who isn't a thinly veiled eco-terrorist. A rather ... civilized druid, in fact. Wild Shape will be ignored.
Invoker: D. Divine classes don't appeal to me in general.
Shaman. F. Spirit companion looks like a colossal pain in the butt.
Sorcerer: B+. Wild magic version only, though.
Warden: F. Like a druid, but you're stuck with the shapechanging. Pass.
That's harsh, Salla. Especially given that the marking scheme Nautilus gave us to use indicates that you think that three of the new classes need to be totally redesigned, that two others need to be partially redesigned, and that one other is not interesting to you. By this assessment, I can only assume you have no in purchasing PH2. :P
...Do you?
That's harsh, Salla. Especially given that the marking scheme Nautilus gave us to use indicates that you think that three of the new classes need to be totally redesigned, that two others need to be partially redesigned, and that one other is not interesting to you. By this assessment, I can only assume you have no in purchasing PH2. :P
...Do you?
I'm in for the Shifters. My wife, however, wants the druid, AND the bard, AND the sorcerer, and since what's mine is hers, and what's hers is hers ... we're getting it.
I don't fancy being one of Robin's Minstrels on the battlefield either. But, an axe wielding warrior who sings songs of praise to his God that inspires others on the battlefield... that's cool.
That's a cleric.
C: Barbarian, Druid
D: Warden
F: Bard
B: Divines
C: Primals
Not particularly interested in any of the Primals, but we'll see how it goes.
Need more Bard and Sorc now!
Barbarian: C
Bard: D
Druid: F
Invoker: D
Shaman: F
Sorcerer: D
Warden: D
In the case of most of these classes, I'd rather not play at all than be forced to play one of them.
I really, really hate the concept of "Primal" classes and am resolved to hold them in contempt. My distaste for the Avenger is well-known. The Barbarian is probably the only one that I could possibly be convinced to play, and then only with some heavy modification.
So far as I can tell, the Players' Handbook II will likely hold little to offer me. I don't care for any of the classes or races I've seen so far. My game can do without them--they don't feel properly "D&D" to me. I am holding out some dim spark of hope that the PHBII will present some interesting mundane arms and armour, or some Feats that have applications I like.
Love the idea. I'm not yet sold on the execution, however. Its powers will have to bring something special to the table, because as much as I love the mechanics of this class, it doesn't look like it wll touch the Ranger for damage.
Barbarian: C
I took one look at the playtest and went "meh." I like the battlerager better for this general concept (though it could use some balance-tweaking for sure). I will say that I took another look at some powers recently and they have grown on me a bit...I especially like the thaneborn stuff.
Bard: B
This has not always been my favorite class, to put it mildly. However, the 4E version looks like a winner, especially the Valorous version. I'm extremely glad that this class is back in the game, even if I don't know if I will get around to playing one.
Druid: B
This is the class that my players were most disappointed with being left out of the PHB. I'm very glad that it's back, especially as a controller. My favorite part of the Druid was always blasting, so I'm glad that's now a more viable strategy...and that they found a good way to keep the Shapeshifting in since so many people clamored for it.
Invoker: A
New controller = win. Divine blaster = win. Summoner = win. This class is made of awesome and roses.
Shaman: B
This might be higher if not for the fact that Primal is just not my cup of tea. I'm sure I'll try it, but my heart belongs to Arcane and Martial. That said, I always have wanted to get around to a shaman-type character. I find the flavor satisfactory and the mechanics intriguing.
Sorcerer: A
My heart fell when I saw it was a Striker...and leapt when I saw the implementation. They succeeded in making Sorcerer distinct from Warlock and Wizard, and the two builds were exactly the two directions I was hoping it would take. There's an excellent chance my first new character will be a Sorcerer. (Aside...though, I am slightly miffed that Wis is an important stat to all controllers, and Int is important for two of them.)
Warden: C+
Like with many of you, the mechanics are more interesting to me than the flavor. However, the flavor isn't a total loss...I can see using them as NPC "Guardians of the Sacred Grove" types. Cautiously interested here.
That's a cleric.
Depends on how good they sing. :D
I've also multiclassed like crazy, just trying to see how a true jack of all trades plays out. So far, so good. Feats taken thus far: Student of Battle, Pact Initiate, Initiate of the Faith, Sacrifice to Caiphon. Currently has Repulsion Leather Armor +1, and a Wand of Psychic Ravaging +1.
Got into a fight recently with a lycanthrope, and a swordmage and I pushed and pulled him back and forth like a pinball.
I am really looking forward to some of the new Bard feats and powers.
Further, I like the look of the Invoker.
Barbarian - B
Bard - C
Druid - A
Invoker - B
Shaman - C
Sorcerer - F
Warden - B
Avenger - Religious zealot for the WIN!
Barbarian - Even if they sucked, who can resist "GRONK SMASH!". I'm not likely to play one soon
Bard - The Bard is an awesome class, but I'm just not the Bard type.
Druid - The Druid sounds fun, no matter what. The versatility of the class is amazing, and wildshape sounds hecka awesome.
Invoker - A very powerful controller. I personally like the "God's Tool" stereotype.
Shaman - Bad AC makes me sad.
I'm not much of an nature-guy either. (Spirt kittens for the win though!)Sorcerer - Not my style. I can't under stand the class, and I'd rather just be a Wizard. Feels kind of like a repeat to me. If I want to be a spell caster, I think the Wizard is much better.
Warden - Beefy primal flesh-wall. Amazing HP. The mechanic sounds interesting. And turning into trees is awesome.
...My distaste for the Avenger is well-known.
Is it? Not that I think your opinion is invalid, but it seems like lots of people are really excited about the Avenger; I'm curious what it is about it that you don't like.
So far as I can tell, the Players' Handbook II will likely hold little to offer me. I don't care for any of the classes or races I've seen so far. My game can do without them--they don't feel properly "D&D" to me.
I don't mean to sound like I'm picking on you, WH, but I thought this was funny. In essence, you're saying the exact opposite of one of the things I've read from many grognards over the past year: "Without Sorcerers or Gnomes or Druids or Bards or Half-Orcs or Barbarians, it just doesn't feel properly like 'D&D' to me!"
It's kind of refreshing to read that, actually! :P
Is it? Not that I think your opinion is invalid, but it seems like lots of people are really excited about the Avenger; I'm curious what it is about it that you don't like.
He dislikes light armor classes. Especially with high AC. His little picture is even of a suit of armor.
WhiteHarness clearly has a thing for armor.
Barbarian: C
Bard: C
Druid: D
Invoker: B
Shaman: A
Sorcerer: B
Warden: B
We need one of these for PHB2 races.
Shaman- A (I really like the idea of the character being more normal and having a companion doing much of the work)
Warden- C (I like need to see the full class to see whether it swings to B or D, but now it is sort of meh)
Sorceror- D~A (See below)
Invoker- C (I like the fluff, but tend not to be as big a fan as controllers)
Bard- D (I enjoy the concepts behind the other leader classes much more, attacking through song just seems silly to me)
Barbarian- C (I'm more about the urban, refined characters ;) )
Druid- C (I think all the awesome parts of the Druid went into the Warden and Shaman)
I am really excited about the Avenger, I immeadiately had a desire to play a Deva ex-Avenger of Bane. I care less about the divine aspect, and more about the cool factor of the melee fighting cloth-wearer.
The other main character I am excited about is either a Shaman or a Sorceror (the reason I have the grade variation on that class). I basically want to play sort of Daenerys Targaryen, and really liked the Shaman for it, chiefly because it seemed like with mininmal refluffing the spirit could be a dragon companion doing all the work while the character stood in the back, more normal and less of a martial or arcane paragon.
But with the Sorceror having access to face skills, familiars coming up in Arcane Power, and little tings like being able to represent the Targaryen resistance to heat, I am now thinking Sorceror, though I am not as fond of the class itself.
It is a battle that may have to wait for release to be resolved.
Bard: F. Not interested .
If you actually read the fluff, you'll see they are more of an adventuring magic user that links that magic to song. Essentially, a composer.
Some people have trouble understanding the artistic mindset. But it can be explained a bit... basically, they look at the world, and link patterns, actions, movements, images to what they know. Some graphic artists are absolutely obsessed with the human form, both beautiful and grotesque. They will watch the most minute details of how someone moves, how they place their hands.
Musicians listen to the patterns of the world, of movement, of voice and boom. The rhythm of urban life, suburban, and even rural. They take beauty and understanding from the world, and use it, in some way.
The bard, takes beauty and understanding in the tactical movements of the battlefield. They can then manipulate the battlefield and the people on it, from which comes their abilities as a leader. They can encourage moral, point out flaws in tactical movement, coordinate strategies, all through the use of songs and lyrics.
Oh, my rankings?
Avenger: B
Warden: B
Invoker: B
Bard: B
Druid: A
Shaman: A
Sorceror: B
Barbarian: C -its just another straight striker like a ranger. Quite boring.
Otherwise, I'm pretty much waiting to see the rest of the class to really make up my mind.
B: Warden
C: Sorcerer, Shaman
D: Bard
Avenger: Melee combat with a big weapon, light armor, and magic that doesn't follow the traditional D&D "elemental damage for all" stylings? Sign me up!
Barbarian: A surprisingly tactical class. Hoard your hit points, blow into the center of the battlefield at exactly the right moment, and unload some hideous damage. But time things wrong and you're on the ground.
Druid: A fun hybrid. Open with spells, wade into melee, and shift back out to follow up with more spells.
Invoker: A wizard with actual theme. This one should probably be lower just because we don't know enough to really see its identity expressed in its powers, but I have an irrational attachment to it.
Warden: The forms look like they'll keep things interesting for me.
Sorcerer: Just not that interested in a generic spellcaster. The wild magic build seemed overly fiddly for too little effect. The dragon magic build might be worthwhile. I'd probably give that one a B, and the other a D. Average, C.
Shaman: Its probably a perfectly good class. The whole pet thing just doesn't appeal to me.
Bard: Don't like them. Didn't like them in earlier editions. Don't like them now. They feel insufficiently musical, for a start. They make an ok jack of all trades class, but... I might have actually liked the bard if "music" had been declared a power source and worked deeply into their design, rather than what we have now, which is an arcanist with a light musical theme.
For what I do know;
A for Sorcorer, I've never wanted to play one until 4E. I'm glad the Sorcorer is not the weak vision of the wizard like it was in 3E. I like that they don't cast spells the same way wizards do.
A for Barbarian, no complants at all.
B for Bard, looks fun just not my style.
B for Invoker, looking forward to reading more about them.
Avenger, well the picture looked cool but I don't know anymore then that. The same goes for the other classes.
First is Avenger, with clearly the most As (17) and a very impressive 3/4 of contributors ranking the class as favorable (A or B). Once again, Avenger proves to be the star of the PHB2 show.
Second is Invoker, which was a minor surprise to me. This hasn't been given nearly the kudos the Avenger has, but there seems to be a real appreciation for the class. The proportion of favourable votes is at 70%, just behind the Avenger.
Third is Sorcerer, a strong challenger for second that was just pipped in the end by Invoker. It was second equal in A votes and was only dragged back by having several detractors.
Fourth is Druid. This has a good set of fans, and surprisingly few unfavorable (D and F) votes. That was enough to lift it into the top half of the PHB2, defying my predictions that the primal classes would occupy the bottom half.
Fifth is Shaman. Vies with the bard for the most polarising class in PHB2. Got enough A votes to tie with the sorcerer, but fell away after that.
Sixth is Bard. A lot of people like the class, but not that many have it as a favorite. There are also several who strongly dislike the bard, perhaps indicating that not everyone can take a music-playing leader seriously.
Seventh is Barbarian. A large proportion of contributors were indifferent to the Hulk Smasher. The barbarian got the least number of As (7) and overall the class seems to have rather underwhelmed many people. Perhaps it's one that predicts bad but plays good.
Eighth and last is Warden. This class started out surprisingly strongly, but has faded. It's the only one of the three new classes to fail to capture the imagination.
Thus some of our excitement would be tempered by time and not having as many things to uncover and try out come the release of the PHB2.
Avenger: A
Barbarian: C
Bard: A
Druid: A
Invoker: B
Shaman: B
Sorcerer: B
Warden: C
Bel
Barbarian: C (Perhaps I'll try it, but not after I tried the rest)
Bard: B (Said to be the first actual working Bard in game.. hated the 3.0 version in NwN2.. but as a musician this class might pull me in)
Druid: A (Considering a Doppelganger Druid, for kicks.. might be able to convince gullible types that I'm a golden Dragon. And I like druids for rp aspects (I'm the eco-terrorist.. nehh not really) )
Invoker: C (More dps, but divine style ?! didnt really look into it)
Shaman: B (I loved the WoW variant, so I might try this one.. but first 3 levels look a bit underdesigned)
Sorcerer: C (More dps, I prefer wizards actually)
Warden: B (Tankish.. I like it)
I like how the shapeshifting thing of the Druid doesnt really do anything (stat/abilitywise), except enable animal powers. It's a lot clearer then. Looking forward leveling/advancing this character to the point I can fly. I'll probably try to modify my Dwarf Cleric of Melora (multiclassed to Ranger) to a Druid , if my DM allows it.
Barbarian - B - Looking forward to seeing the return of one of my favourite archetypes
Bard - A - Well... since I'm currently playing a 1st level bard I'm very much looking forward to seeing the full class
Druid - D - Though I have nothing against druids they don't interest me the slightest
Invoker - F - Since I hate the way D&D have previously handled divine magic I loved the 4th edition cleric, however since Invokers are an incarnation of everything I hate about D&D divine magic I truly hate this one
Shaman - D - Same history as with the druid
Sorcerer - B - I'm really looking forward to seeing if they have succeeded making the sorcerer an unique class that truly differs from other arcane casters, if they have, I'm going to love this one
Warden - D - I don't really know anything about the warden and I haven't seen anything to further my interest in it
That said some of the new stuff coming up looks awesome sauce as well
Avenger - B
Two handed weapon crazed fanatic of a god. Count me in! Dont usually dig strikers that much but the divine plus the image just get me going
Barbarian - D
Sorry, while i really can relate to using rage as a driving force, and i have no probs with primal, the barbarian just seems a bit......boring i guess
Bard - B
I have a real soft spot for Bards. As a DM i really struggled to find them a place in my campaigns, even though they generally sucked. Just as i really found a way (ie.Monte Cooks Alternate Bard Rules), 4th ed up and made em awesome!
Druids - A
4th ed made em even cooler. I love nature magic, Celtic stuff etc. Glad shapeshifting got the work over, like the controller thingy too.
Invoker - B
Yet another B (i am finding it hard to choose!), the theurgic background is just too damn cool for words...and another controller! yay!
Shaman - A
Loved the WoW shaman, am looking forward to seeing more of this (especially whatever Primal power can throw out for them)
Warden - B
I like the avatar of nature idea....if you can simulate all four seasons somehow it will be even better
Sorcerer - F
Hmmm..Been there, done that, would rather be a wizard
BTW, i am usually the DM but i wish i wasnt all the time, just so i could play one of the above! aaaargh!
I consider the concept of 'magic in music' to be ludicrous.
The whole class strikes me as a bad joke. It always has. Useful, fine. Balanced, fine ... but still an absolutely ridiculous concept I have no interest in playing.
Is it? Not that I think your opinion is invalid, but it seems like lots of people are really excited about the Avenger; I'm curious what it is about it that you don't like.
I figured the thread I started about why I don't "get" the Avenger that's still here on the first page of this forum would stand as sufficient explanation.
He dislikes light armor classes. Especially with high AC. His little picture is even of a suit of armor.
WhiteHarness clearly has a thing for armor.
Just so.
I admit it--I have a one-track mind. I do love armour. This probably says something about deep-seated insecurities in my psyche. ;)
For me, D&D has always been about playing an armour-clad warrior, and anything that short-circuits that is unwelcome in my game.
I consider parading about in a dungeon singing to be silly.
I consider the concept of 'magic in music' to be ludicrous.
The whole class strikes me as a bad joke. It always has. Useful, fine. Balanced, fine ... but still an absolutely ridiculous concept I have no interest in playing.
When I initially decided to try the bard, I thought the idea of singing or playing music was a bit restrictive, so I decided to cast my bard as a Jester. Especially with the Vicious Mockery at-will power. I've taken the time to write a bunch of insults, and I fling those at enemies when I use the power. Same thing goes for Stirring Shout, or Blunder, or what have you. One of the player's I was playing with at the time saw that Vicious Mockery did damage, and he commented: "I'll be...sticks and stones can break bones, and words DO hurt!"
You may not be able to wrap your brain around the bard, but it's all in how you envision your character. It's too bad that you've decided against the class before it's been officially released. There are quite a few classes out so that someone will find a class that suits their taste.
And, enough variations either out now or coming soon so that you can tweak any class to suit your tastes. For example, the Illusionist variant of the Wizard in Dragon a few issues ago. Or, the Gladiator feats that allows you to make an Arena fighter if you wish.
The choice is yours, and it's clear that you don't like bards. Fair enough. I just hope that you keep an open mind when you roleplay, and remember...it's Roleplaying. You can make up whatever you want.
James
Just saying...play it when it's completely released before making generalizations
Avenger: A.
At first, I hated the class - bleh, a divine assassin. Then I took a look at what it really was - a fast, wise divine class - and realized what I had. A lightly-armored holy knight.
I can play a streetrat blessed by the gods. OH YES.
Barbarian: D.
I don't know why, but the barbarian falls flat for me. It's the last striker I'd ever play, and it doesn't appeal to me at all. Thaneborn is the only shred of hope I have for this class.
Bard: B.
I dislike the Virtue o' Valor bard, but Virtue of Cunning should make up for it. I've always loved bards, and even though they're a bit more magical (and less dextrous) than they should - in my opinion - be in this incarnation.
If they'd have had a DEX path for the bard, this would be an A. Sigh...
Druid: C.
Meh. I don't really like the nature-spellcaster theme of the druid.
Then again, if this allows me to play a 4E laguz, I will squeal with joy and bump this up to B or A.
Invoker: C+ or B-.
Tricky. This class might be awesome incarnate and provide lots of lovely fun with divine spells, channeling the sheer wrath and rightous fury of God into your magic.
Or it might be lametastic. Only time will tell.
Shaman: F.
Dang. That is all. Seriously, I hate the "spirit guide" thing. Bleh.
Sorcerer: C.
The only redeeming factor that Sorcerer has for me is that I can play a kobold channeling the blood of his draconic ancestors into his innate magic.
Otherwise, pass!
Warden: A.
None shall pass. This class should be really fun, especially with a Shifter Warden. ROAR!
And just for fun, the PHB1 classes:
Show
Cleric: C. I just can't bring myself to play this class, really. I have a few good ideas for the class, but it's just a bit bland and uninteresting. Maybe my bumbling swordsman will work, though...
Fighter: A. OOOOOOH YEAH! This class is great fun to play, and is broad enough to hold a number of really cool archetypes. Want to play a valorous knight, or a swift battle-dancer, or a hardened mercenary? All are Fighters!
Paladin: B. I love the Holy Knight archetype, but the class falls short. Once Divine Power comes out, though, A-ship will ensue.
Ranger: B. This class is, like the Fighter, wide enough for many archetypes. Archery is awesome, and who doesn't love a brave animal companion?
Rogue: A+. My favorite class, hands down. Who doesn't love the lovable rogue?
Warlock: D (B for Feylocks). I hate Infernalocks with a burning passion, and Starlocks make me shrug my shoulders.
However, Feylocks are very, very enjoyable characters. Make a deal with the fey today! Satisfaction not guaranteed.
Warlord: B. Bravura and Inspiring Warlords ain't my cup o' tea, but tactical warlords and resourceful warlords give me quite a bit of hope for the class.
Wizard: D. One day, I shall play a technomage, with spells harnessed by technology, a zappy stick instead of a wand, and cool goggles.
Until then, the wizard shalt remain unplayed and lonely.
Fighter: A. OOOOOOH YEAH! This class is great fun to play, and is broad enough to hold a number of really cool archetypes. Want to play a valorous knight, or a swift battle-dancer, or a hardened mercenary? All are Fighters!
Paladin: B. I love the Holy Knight archetype, but the class falls short. Once Divine Power comes out, though, A-ship will ensue.
Ranger: B. This class is, like the Fighter, wide enough for many archetypes. Archery is awesome, and who doesn't love a brave animal companion?
Rogue: A+. My favorite class, hands down. Who doesn't love the lovable rogue?
Warlock: D (B for Feylocks). I hate Infernalocks with a burning passion, and Starlocks make me shrug my shoulders.
However, Feylocks are very, very enjoyable characters. Make a deal with the fey today! Satisfaction not guaranteed.
Warlord: B. Bravura and Inspiring Warlords ain't my cup o' tea, but tactical warlords and resourceful warlords give me quite a bit of hope for the class.
Wizard: D. One day, I shall play a technomage, with spells harnessed by technology, a zappy stick instead of a wand, and cool goggles.
Until then, the wizard shalt remain unplayed and lonely.
Barbarian: D
Bard: C
Druid: A
Invoker: A
Shaman: B
Sorcerer: D
Warden: A
B: Druid
C: Warden, Invoker
E: Sorcerer, Barbarian
I like the Leader classes the most, and I hate (well, used to hate) Striker classes, something in the Avenger somehow got me pretty excited.
The druid seems quite interesting, but given the options, I find rather unlikely that there'd be an opportunity for me to play one (seriously, there are already too many interesting options).
The Warden and Invoker didn't quite do it for me. Won't say I wouldn't play them though.
First I thought (or hoped) Barbarians would be defenders, even though now I see it wouldn't make much sense, maybe because I never really liked Barbarians, not surprisingly, they became Strikers (which I also don't like)... Then I thought Sorcerers would be Controllers... oh well.
B: Sorcerer, Barbarian, Invoker
B-: Bard, Shaman
C: Warden
All classes are good. Just like in the Player's Handbook. I am just glad that a very "complete" feeling spectrum of classes and races will soon be available.
...Then we WILL be able to wait for PH3!
Barbarian: B (I like it, but the battlerager fighter build already does what I want a barbarian to do and I like it better than a barbarian.)
Bard: F ( I only like Norse "Skald" style bards- not the singing variety. Bravura warlords already do this for me. )
Druid: A ( I love the idea of playing a Druid that can actually stay in beast form all the time! I want to play a big talking lion, like Aslan. :D Hm... come to think of it, I'm not sure you can speak in beast form. Ah, well. I still love the class.)
Invoker: A ( Invoker of Bane would rule. )
Shaman: F ( Thematically/fluff-wise, this class just doesen't appeal to me.)
Sorceror: B ( A very cool class- especially the chaos version- but wizards and warlocks appeal more to me from both a theme/fluff and mechanics aspect.)
Warden: F ( Just not interested, fluff/theme-wise)
Bard=A looks like its balanced and interesting. I have a concept for one that multi classes sorcerer,wizard, and swordmage where every encounter power comes from a different class, same with daily powers. The ultimate arcane character.
Barbarian=C never liked the plain hulk smash style of play
Druid=C while it looks interesting just not something I have a concept for at the moment
Invoker=B really like the idea just dont have a specific concept in mind at the moment
Shaman=B same with invoker really looks good but dont have specific idea in mind
sorcerer=F- dont like it being a sriker should have been a controller, also its damage is way better than that of the warlock, again. Until arcane power comes out I wont be allowing this class at any game Im running. Getting extra damage to all spells is way too much.
Warden=C mainly because I dont have a clear image of what it is, looks mildly interesting just not my cup of tea will have to get a clearer look at it.
Just my two cents.
First I thought (or hoped) Barbarians would be defenders, even though now I see it wouldn't make much sense, maybe because I never really liked Barbarians, not surprisingly, they became Strikers (which I also don't like)...
Well, if what you dislike about strikers is fragility, the barbarian is going to be a durable striker, not a fragile one, and rageblood (Str/Con) barbarians have defender as a secondary role.
Or there's another tack. Have you considered trying a warden and re-fluffing its transformation dailies as rages a la the new barbarian?
On the flip side, I do find someone dancing around jovially with a lute in a pitched dungeon battle to be kind of silly, but that's not the only way to play a bard. You'll notice that they use wands instead of instruments as combat implements now, and nothing says that their music has to be silly or frivolous ditties instead of power ballads, funeral dirges, war songs, or whatever else happens to move you. Hell, one of their at-wills is called "War Song Strike."
Once i get my palms on this one it's going to be the only class i ever play
Barbarian: A
very cool and i like the image of a half orc bouncing around the battle field like a pinball claiming to "charge then wallop sumfing"
Bard: B
Willing to give this class a good try if the avenger doesn't take away all other classes and hide them in the vaults of my mind.
Druid: B
Same as Bard
Invoker: B
"
Shaman: F
NOt a bad concept but not one i'd get any thrill out of.
Sorcerer: A
WILD MAGIC
Warden: B
As invoker etc.
1)
2) The tribal skald banging on a drum and whooping as he chases down foes
3) The Professional Wrestler firing verbal jibs and jabs at his opponent
4) The creepy fiddler ala Lestat
5) The evangelist who sings a righteous battle hymn as he cuts down the damned
...and many others
B: Like the class, and while it may not quite be a first choice, I'd be happy to play one at some point.
C: Fairly neutral about the class, or don't have enough information to decide whether I'd like to play it or not
D: Don't like the class, and would only ever play it as a one-off, or if the group was desperate.
F: Class is a FAIL - I absolutely refuse to play it!
And here's my picks
Avenger: C
Barbarian: B
Bard: A
Druid: B
Invoker: C
Shaman: C
Sorcerer: C
Warden: C
Barbarian - A (I love everything I've seen of it. I never much cared for the 3.5 Barbarian, but this one look simply vicious.)
Bard - D (I'm sure I'll give it a try at some point, but if this weren't in the book at all, I wouldn't be at all upset about it.)
Druid - A (So many possibilities...)
Invoker - C (I don't know anything about this one)
Shaman - C (I know almost nothing about this one. All I've seen is the "I can throw panthers!" story, which is cool)
Sorcerer - B (I know enough to be very interested, but not enough to love it. I always liked sorcerers better than wizards in 3.5, and now that sorcerers aren't gimped, I'm looking forward to it.)
Warden - C (I know almost nothing of substance here either)
Barbarian: C
Bard: A
Druid: B
Invoker: B
Shaman:C
Sorcerer: B
Warden: C
Bard: A
Druid: A
Both are very versatile, while playing in very different ways, even if their roles overlap. I want to see how different a leader/controller can be from a controller/leader.
Invoker: B
Avenger: B
I dig the Old Testament prophet archetype of the invoker, and the holy assassion Avenger seems cool too.
Warden: C
Shaman: C
They're both interesting, but neither's really high priority for me.
Barbarian: D
Sorcerer: D
I'm afraid that these two just don't appeal to me. Never have, really.
I'm more interested in what new races there are. What ARE the new races anyway? Is Half-Orc in there?
The new races are:
- Half-Orc
- Deva
- Shifter
- Gnome
- Goliath
So the Gnome is out of the MM and back into a PHB huh? Cool. Shifters too? So they aren't a Eberron specific race anymore it seems.
No, they've hit the big time. I'd say shifters got the nod ahead of dopplegangers because they worked better with PHB2's primal classes.
snip....
Could people stop repeating Salla's stupid and offensive line? Like I said before, its against the Code of Conduct. To be specific: http://forums.gleemax.com/community_coc.php
And the specific line:
Do not harass, bully, threaten, harm or cause discomfort for other persons, including any other members. For example:
* Use hate speech or racial, ethnic, sexist, homophobic or religious slurs
* Harass a specific person (repeated flaming, personal attacks or posting their private information)
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You may not see it as an issue, but it is.
Well, if what you dislike about strikers is fragility, the barbarian is going to be a durable striker, not a fragile one, and rageblood (Str/Con) barbarians have defender as a secondary role.
Or there's another tack. Have you considered trying a warden and re-fluffing its transformation dailies as rages a la the new barbarian?
Sorry if I'm derailing the thread, but I think the reason I dislike Strikers in general is not due to their fragility, but because they're usually one-trick ponies. All you do is damage, and most of the striker classes presented so far just stand and spam their stuff without thinking (Twin Strike, anyone?).
Apparently, there aren't many interesting features in the role that encourages you to think... well, not as much as the other roles at least. When playing a leader it is crucial to know what kind of buff a given ally is going to need next turn, when playing a defender you gotta predict enemies' next moves, and the controller is all about playing smart (unless you're only limited to blaster type abilities, which IMO sucks pretty bad). So, when you're playing one of the other roles and you realize that your party was successful partly because you made a good decision, that's one of the best things there is about the game for me, sure, the striker might feel the same way, but not because he made a smart move, but just because he dealt lots of damage. And that's not my thing.
I'm not sure yet if the Avengers are going to be any different from that, but so far I like what I'm seeing (fluffwise and crunchwise), or maybe I'm too much hyped about them.
I've also multiclassed like crazy, just trying to see how a true jack of all trades plays out. So far, so good. Feats taken thus far: Student of Battle, Pact Initiate, Initiate of the Faith, Sacrifice to Caiphon. Currently has Repulsion Leather Armor +1, and a Wand of Psychic Ravaging +1.
Got into a fight recently with a lycanthrope, and a swordmage and I pushed and pulled him back and forth like a pinball.
I am really looking forward to some of the new Bard feats and powers.
Further, I like the look of the Invoker.
Barbarian - B
Bard - C
Druid - A
Invoker - B
Shaman - C
Sorcerer - F
Warden - B
Avenger - Religious zealot for the WIN!
Barbarian - Even if they sucked, who can resist "GRONK SMASH!". I'm not likely to play one soon
Bard - The Bard is an awesome class, but I'm just not the Bard type.
Druid - The Druid sounds fun, no matter what. The versatility of the class is amazing, and wildshape sounds hecka awesome.
Invoker - A very powerful controller. I personally like the "God's Tool" stereotype.
Shaman - Bad AC makes me sad.
I'm not much of an nature-guy either. (Spirt kittens for the win though!)Sorcerer - Not my style. I can't under stand the class, and I'd rather just be a Wizard. Feels kind of like a repeat to me. If I want to be a spell caster, I think the Wizard is much better.
Warden - Beefy primal flesh-wall. Amazing HP. The mechanic sounds interesting. And turning into trees is awesome.
...My distaste for the Avenger is well-known.
Is it? Not that I think your opinion is invalid, but it seems like lots of people are really excited about the Avenger; I'm curious what it is about it that you don't like.
So far as I can tell, the Players' Handbook II will likely hold little to offer me. I don't care for any of the classes or races I've seen so far. My game can do without them--they don't feel properly "D&D" to me.
I don't mean to sound like I'm picking on you, WH, but I thought this was funny. In essence, you're saying the exact opposite of one of the things I've read from many grognards over the past year: "Without Sorcerers or Gnomes or Druids or Bards or Half-Orcs or Barbarians, it just doesn't feel properly like 'D&D' to me!"
It's kind of refreshing to read that, actually! :P
Is it? Not that I think your opinion is invalid, but it seems like lots of people are really excited about the Avenger; I'm curious what it is about it that you don't like.
He dislikes light armor classes. Especially with high AC. His little picture is even of a suit of armor.
WhiteHarness clearly has a thing for armor.
Barbarian: C
Bard: C
Druid: D
Invoker: B
Shaman: A
Sorcerer: B
Warden: B
We need one of these for PHB2 races.
Shaman- A (I really like the idea of the character being more normal and having a companion doing much of the work)
Warden- C (I like need to see the full class to see whether it swings to B or D, but now it is sort of meh)
Sorceror- D~A (See below)
Invoker- C (I like the fluff, but tend not to be as big a fan as controllers)
Bard- D (I enjoy the concepts behind the other leader classes much more, attacking through song just seems silly to me)
Barbarian- C (I'm more about the urban, refined characters ;) )
Druid- C (I think all the awesome parts of the Druid went into the Warden and Shaman)
I am really excited about the Avenger, I immeadiately had a desire to play a Deva ex-Avenger of Bane. I care less about the divine aspect, and more about the cool factor of the melee fighting cloth-wearer.
The other main character I am excited about is either a Shaman or a Sorceror (the reason I have the grade variation on that class). I basically want to play sort of Daenerys Targaryen, and really liked the Shaman for it, chiefly because it seemed like with mininmal refluffing the spirit could be a dragon companion doing all the work while the character stood in the back, more normal and less of a martial or arcane paragon.
But with the Sorceror having access to face skills, familiars coming up in Arcane Power, and little tings like being able to represent the Targaryen resistance to heat, I am now thinking Sorceror, though I am not as fond of the class itself.
It is a battle that may have to wait for release to be resolved.
Bard: F. Not interested .
If you actually read the fluff, you'll see they are more of an adventuring magic user that links that magic to song. Essentially, a composer.
Some people have trouble understanding the artistic mindset. But it can be explained a bit... basically, they look at the world, and link patterns, actions, movements, images to what they know. Some graphic artists are absolutely obsessed with the human form, both beautiful and grotesque. They will watch the most minute details of how someone moves, how they place their hands.
Musicians listen to the patterns of the world, of movement, of voice and boom. The rhythm of urban life, suburban, and even rural. They take beauty and understanding from the world, and use it, in some way.
The bard, takes beauty and understanding in the tactical movements of the battlefield. They can then manipulate the battlefield and the people on it, from which comes their abilities as a leader. They can encourage moral, point out flaws in tactical movement, coordinate strategies, all through the use of songs and lyrics.
Oh, my rankings?
Avenger: B
Warden: B
Invoker: B
Bard: B
Druid: A
Shaman: A
Sorceror: B
Barbarian: C -its just another straight striker like a ranger. Quite boring.
Otherwise, I'm pretty much waiting to see the rest of the class to really make up my mind.
B: Warden
C: Sorcerer, Shaman
D: Bard
Avenger: Melee combat with a big weapon, light armor, and magic that doesn't follow the traditional D&D "elemental damage for all" stylings? Sign me up!
Barbarian: A surprisingly tactical class. Hoard your hit points, blow into the center of the battlefield at exactly the right moment, and unload some hideous damage. But time things wrong and you're on the ground.
Druid: A fun hybrid. Open with spells, wade into melee, and shift back out to follow up with more spells.
Invoker: A wizard with actual theme. This one should probably be lower just because we don't know enough to really see its identity expressed in its powers, but I have an irrational attachment to it.
Warden: The forms look like they'll keep things interesting for me.
Sorcerer: Just not that interested in a generic spellcaster. The wild magic build seemed overly fiddly for too little effect. The dragon magic build might be worthwhile. I'd probably give that one a B, and the other a D. Average, C.
Shaman: Its probably a perfectly good class. The whole pet thing just doesn't appeal to me.
Bard: Don't like them. Didn't like them in earlier editions. Don't like them now. They feel insufficiently musical, for a start. They make an ok jack of all trades class, but... I might have actually liked the bard if "music" had been declared a power source and worked deeply into their design, rather than what we have now, which is an arcanist with a light musical theme.
For what I do know;
A for Sorcorer, I've never wanted to play one until 4E. I'm glad the Sorcorer is not the weak vision of the wizard like it was in 3E. I like that they don't cast spells the same way wizards do.
A for Barbarian, no complants at all.
B for Bard, looks fun just not my style.
B for Invoker, looking forward to reading more about them.
Avenger, well the picture looked cool but I don't know anymore then that. The same goes for the other classes.
First is Avenger, with clearly the most As (17) and a very impressive 3/4 of contributors ranking the class as favorable (A or B). Once again, Avenger proves to be the star of the PHB2 show.
Second is Invoker, which was a minor surprise to me. This hasn't been given nearly the kudos the Avenger has, but there seems to be a real appreciation for the class. The proportion of favourable votes is at 70%, just behind the Avenger.
Third is Sorcerer, a strong challenger for second that was just pipped in the end by Invoker. It was second equal in A votes and was only dragged back by having several detractors.
Fourth is Druid. This has a good set of fans, and surprisingly few unfavorable (D and F) votes. That was enough to lift it into the top half of the PHB2, defying my predictions that the primal classes would occupy the bottom half.
Fifth is Shaman. Vies with the bard for the most polarising class in PHB2. Got enough A votes to tie with the sorcerer, but fell away after that.
Sixth is Bard. A lot of people like the class, but not that many have it as a favorite. There are also several who strongly dislike the bard, perhaps indicating that not everyone can take a music-playing leader seriously.
Seventh is Barbarian. A large proportion of contributors were indifferent to the Hulk Smasher. The barbarian got the least number of As (7) and overall the class seems to have rather underwhelmed many people. Perhaps it's one that predicts bad but plays good.
Eighth and last is Warden. This class started out surprisingly strongly, but has faded. It's the only one of the three new classes to fail to capture the imagination.
Thus some of our excitement would be tempered by time and not having as many things to uncover and try out come the release of the PHB2.
Avenger: A
Barbarian: C
Bard: A
Druid: A
Invoker: B
Shaman: B
Sorcerer: B
Warden: C
Bel
Barbarian: C (Perhaps I'll try it, but not after I tried the rest)
Bard: B (Said to be the first actual working Bard in game.. hated the 3.0 version in NwN2.. but as a musician this class might pull me in)
Druid: A (Considering a Doppelganger Druid, for kicks.. might be able to convince gullible types that I'm a golden Dragon. And I like druids for rp aspects (I'm the eco-terrorist.. nehh not really) )
Invoker: C (More dps, but divine style ?! didnt really look into it)
Shaman: B (I loved the WoW variant, so I might try this one.. but first 3 levels look a bit underdesigned)
Sorcerer: C (More dps, I prefer wizards actually)
Warden: B (Tankish.. I like it)
I like how the shapeshifting thing of the Druid doesnt really do anything (stat/abilitywise), except enable animal powers. It's a lot clearer then. Looking forward leveling/advancing this character to the point I can fly. I'll probably try to modify my Dwarf Cleric of Melora (multiclassed to Ranger) to a Druid , if my DM allows it.
Barbarian - B - Looking forward to seeing the return of one of my favourite archetypes
Bard - A - Well... since I'm currently playing a 1st level bard I'm very much looking forward to seeing the full class
Druid - D - Though I have nothing against druids they don't interest me the slightest
Invoker - F - Since I hate the way D&D have previously handled divine magic I loved the 4th edition cleric, however since Invokers are an incarnation of everything I hate about D&D divine magic I truly hate this one
Shaman - D - Same history as with the druid
Sorcerer - B - I'm really looking forward to seeing if they have succeeded making the sorcerer an unique class that truly differs from other arcane casters, if they have, I'm going to love this one
Warden - D - I don't really know anything about the warden and I haven't seen anything to further my interest in it
That said some of the new stuff coming up looks awesome sauce as well
Avenger - B
Two handed weapon crazed fanatic of a god. Count me in! Dont usually dig strikers that much but the divine plus the image just get me going
Barbarian - D
Sorry, while i really can relate to using rage as a driving force, and i have no probs with primal, the barbarian just seems a bit......boring i guess
Bard - B
I have a real soft spot for Bards. As a DM i really struggled to find them a place in my campaigns, even though they generally sucked. Just as i really found a way (ie.Monte Cooks Alternate Bard Rules), 4th ed up and made em awesome!
Druids - A
4th ed made em even cooler. I love nature magic, Celtic stuff etc. Glad shapeshifting got the work over, like the controller thingy too.
Invoker - B
Yet another B (i am finding it hard to choose!), the theurgic background is just too damn cool for words...and another controller! yay!
Shaman - A
Loved the WoW shaman, am looking forward to seeing more of this (especially whatever Primal power can throw out for them)
Warden - B
I like the avatar of nature idea....if you can simulate all four seasons somehow it will be even better
Sorcerer - F
Hmmm..Been there, done that, would rather be a wizard
BTW, i am usually the DM but i wish i wasnt all the time, just so i could play one of the above! aaaargh!
I consider the concept of 'magic in music' to be ludicrous.
The whole class strikes me as a bad joke. It always has. Useful, fine. Balanced, fine ... but still an absolutely ridiculous concept I have no interest in playing.
Is it? Not that I think your opinion is invalid, but it seems like lots of people are really excited about the Avenger; I'm curious what it is about it that you don't like.
I figured the thread I started about why I don't "get" the Avenger that's still here on the first page of this forum would stand as sufficient explanation.
He dislikes light armor classes. Especially with high AC. His little picture is even of a suit of armor.
WhiteHarness clearly has a thing for armor.
Just so.
I admit it--I have a one-track mind. I do love armour. This probably says something about deep-seated insecurities in my psyche. ;)
For me, D&D has always been about playing an armour-clad warrior, and anything that short-circuits that is unwelcome in my game.
I consider parading about in a dungeon singing to be silly.
I consider the concept of 'magic in music' to be ludicrous.
The whole class strikes me as a bad joke. It always has. Useful, fine. Balanced, fine ... but still an absolutely ridiculous concept I have no interest in playing.
When I initially decided to try the bard, I thought the idea of singing or playing music was a bit restrictive, so I decided to cast my bard as a Jester. Especially with the Vicious Mockery at-will power. I've taken the time to write a bunch of insults, and I fling those at enemies when I use the power. Same thing goes for Stirring Shout, or Blunder, or what have you. One of the player's I was playing with at the time saw that Vicious Mockery did damage, and he commented: "I'll be...sticks and stones can break bones, and words DO hurt!"
You may not be able to wrap your brain around the bard, but it's all in how you envision your character. It's too bad that you've decided against the class before it's been officially released. There are quite a few classes out so that someone will find a class that suits their taste.
And, enough variations either out now or coming soon so that you can tweak any class to suit your tastes. For example, the Illusionist variant of the Wizard in Dragon a few issues ago. Or, the Gladiator feats that allows you to make an Arena fighter if you wish.
The choice is yours, and it's clear that you don't like bards. Fair enough. I just hope that you keep an open mind when you roleplay, and remember...it's Roleplaying. You can make up whatever you want.
James
Just saying...play it when it's completely released before making generalizations
Avenger: A.
At first, I hated the class - bleh, a divine assassin. Then I took a look at what it really was - a fast, wise divine class - and realized what I had. A lightly-armored holy knight.
I can play a streetrat blessed by the gods. OH YES.
Barbarian: D.
I don't know why, but the barbarian falls flat for me. It's the last striker I'd ever play, and it doesn't appeal to me at all. Thaneborn is the only shred of hope I have for this class.
Bard: B.
I dislike the Virtue o' Valor bard, but Virtue of Cunning should make up for it. I've always loved bards, and even though they're a bit more magical (and less dextrous) than they should - in my opinion - be in this incarnation.
If they'd have had a DEX path for the bard, this would be an A. Sigh...
Druid: C.
Meh. I don't really like the nature-spellcaster theme of the druid.
Then again, if this allows me to play a 4E laguz, I will squeal with joy and bump this up to B or A.
Invoker: C+ or B-.
Tricky. This class might be awesome incarnate and provide lots of lovely fun with divine spells, channeling the sheer wrath and rightous fury of God into your magic.
Or it might be lametastic. Only time will tell.
Shaman: F.
Dang. That is all. Seriously, I hate the "spirit guide" thing. Bleh.
Sorcerer: C.
The only redeeming factor that Sorcerer has for me is that I can play a kobold channeling the blood of his draconic ancestors into his innate magic.
Otherwise, pass!
Warden: A.
None shall pass. This class should be really fun, especially with a Shifter Warden. ROAR!
And just for fun, the PHB1 classes:
Show
Cleric: C. I just can't bring myself to play this class, really. I have a few good ideas for the class, but it's just a bit bland and uninteresting. Maybe my bumbling swordsman will work, though...
Fighter: A. OOOOOOH YEAH! This class is great fun to play, and is broad enough to hold a number of really cool archetypes. Want to play a valorous knight, or a swift battle-dancer, or a hardened mercenary? All are Fighters!
Paladin: B. I love the Holy Knight archetype, but the class falls short. Once Divine Power comes out, though, A-ship will ensue.
Ranger: B. This class is, like the Fighter, wide enough for many archetypes. Archery is awesome, and who doesn't love a brave animal companion?
Rogue: A+. My favorite class, hands down. Who doesn't love the lovable rogue?
Warlock: D (B for Feylocks). I hate Infernalocks with a burning passion, and Starlocks make me shrug my shoulders.
However, Feylocks are very, very enjoyable characters. Make a deal with the fey today! Satisfaction not guaranteed.
Warlord: B. Bravura and Inspiring Warlords ain't my cup o' tea, but tactical warlords and resourceful warlords give me quite a bit of hope for the class.
Wizard: D. One day, I shall play a technomage, with spells harnessed by technology, a zappy stick instead of a wand, and cool goggles.
Until then, the wizard shalt remain unplayed and lonely.
Fighter: A. OOOOOOH YEAH! This class is great fun to play, and is broad enough to hold a number of really cool archetypes. Want to play a valorous knight, or a swift battle-dancer, or a hardened mercenary? All are Fighters!
Paladin: B. I love the Holy Knight archetype, but the class falls short. Once Divine Power comes out, though, A-ship will ensue.
Ranger: B. This class is, like the Fighter, wide enough for many archetypes. Archery is awesome, and who doesn't love a brave animal companion?
Rogue: A+. My favorite class, hands down. Who doesn't love the lovable rogue?
Warlock: D (B for Feylocks). I hate Infernalocks with a burning passion, and Starlocks make me shrug my shoulders.
However, Feylocks are very, very enjoyable characters. Make a deal with the fey today! Satisfaction not guaranteed.
Warlord: B. Bravura and Inspiring Warlords ain't my cup o' tea, but tactical warlords and resourceful warlords give me quite a bit of hope for the class.
Wizard: D. One day, I shall play a technomage, with spells harnessed by technology, a zappy stick instead of a wand, and cool goggles.
Until then, the wizard shalt remain unplayed and lonely.
Barbarian: D
Bard: C
Druid: A
Invoker: A
Shaman: B
Sorcerer: D
Warden: A
B: Druid
C: Warden, Invoker
E: Sorcerer, Barbarian
I like the Leader classes the most, and I hate (well, used to hate) Striker classes, something in the Avenger somehow got me pretty excited.
The druid seems quite interesting, but given the options, I find rather unlikely that there'd be an opportunity for me to play one (seriously, there are already too many interesting options).
The Warden and Invoker didn't quite do it for me. Won't say I wouldn't play them though.
First I thought (or hoped) Barbarians would be defenders, even though now I see it wouldn't make much sense, maybe because I never really liked Barbarians, not surprisingly, they became Strikers (which I also don't like)... Then I thought Sorcerers would be Controllers... oh well.
B: Sorcerer, Barbarian, Invoker
B-: Bard, Shaman
C: Warden
All classes are good. Just like in the Player's Handbook. I am just glad that a very "complete" feeling spectrum of classes and races will soon be available.
...Then we WILL be able to wait for PH3!
Barbarian: B (I like it, but the battlerager fighter build already does what I want a barbarian to do and I like it better than a barbarian.)
Bard: F ( I only like Norse "Skald" style bards- not the singing variety. Bravura warlords already do this for me. )
Druid: A ( I love the idea of playing a Druid that can actually stay in beast form all the time! I want to play a big talking lion, like Aslan. :D Hm... come to think of it, I'm not sure you can speak in beast form. Ah, well. I still love the class.)
Invoker: A ( Invoker of Bane would rule. )
Shaman: F ( Thematically/fluff-wise, this class just doesen't appeal to me.)
Sorceror: B ( A very cool class- especially the chaos version- but wizards and warlocks appeal more to me from both a theme/fluff and mechanics aspect.)
Warden: F ( Just not interested, fluff/theme-wise)
Bard=A looks like its balanced and interesting. I have a concept for one that multi classes sorcerer,wizard, and swordmage where every encounter power comes from a different class, same with daily powers. The ultimate arcane character.
Barbarian=C never liked the plain hulk smash style of play
Druid=C while it looks interesting just not something I have a concept for at the moment
Invoker=B really like the idea just dont have a specific concept in mind at the moment
Shaman=B same with invoker really looks good but dont have specific idea in mind
sorcerer=F- dont like it being a sriker should have been a controller, also its damage is way better than that of the warlock, again. Until arcane power comes out I wont be allowing this class at any game Im running. Getting extra damage to all spells is way too much.
Warden=C mainly because I dont have a clear image of what it is, looks mildly interesting just not my cup of tea will have to get a clearer look at it.
Just my two cents.
First I thought (or hoped) Barbarians would be defenders, even though now I see it wouldn't make much sense, maybe because I never really liked Barbarians, not surprisingly, they became Strikers (which I also don't like)...
Well, if what you dislike about strikers is fragility, the barbarian is going to be a durable striker, not a fragile one, and rageblood (Str/Con) barbarians have defender as a secondary role.
Or there's another tack. Have you considered trying a warden and re-fluffing its transformation dailies as rages a la the new barbarian?
On the flip side, I do find someone dancing around jovially with a lute in a pitched dungeon battle to be kind of silly, but that's not the only way to play a bard. You'll notice that they use wands instead of instruments as combat implements now, and nothing says that their music has to be silly or frivolous ditties instead of power ballads, funeral dirges, war songs, or whatever else happens to move you. Hell, one of their at-wills is called "War Song Strike."
Once i get my palms on this one it's going to be the only class i ever play
Barbarian: A
very cool and i like the image of a half orc bouncing around the battle field like a pinball claiming to "charge then wallop sumfing"
Bard: B
Willing to give this class a good try if the avenger doesn't take away all other classes and hide them in the vaults of my mind.
Druid: B
Same as Bard
Invoker: B
"
Shaman: F
NOt a bad concept but not one i'd get any thrill out of.
Sorcerer: A
WILD MAGIC
Warden: B
As invoker etc.
1)
2) The tribal skald banging on a drum and whooping as he chases down foes
3) The Professional Wrestler firing verbal jibs and jabs at his opponent
4) The creepy fiddler ala Lestat
5) The evangelist who sings a righteous battle hymn as he cuts down the damned
...and many others
B: Like the class, and while it may not quite be a first choice, I'd be happy to play one at some point.
C: Fairly neutral about the class, or don't have enough information to decide whether I'd like to play it or not
D: Don't like the class, and would only ever play it as a one-off, or if the group was desperate.
F: Class is a FAIL - I absolutely refuse to play it!
And here's my picks
Avenger: C
Barbarian: B
Bard: A
Druid: B
Invoker: C
Shaman: C
Sorcerer: C
Warden: C
Barbarian - A (I love everything I've seen of it. I never much cared for the 3.5 Barbarian, but this one look simply vicious.)
Bard - D (I'm sure I'll give it a try at some point, but if this weren't in the book at all, I wouldn't be at all upset about it.)
Druid - A (So many possibilities...)
Invoker - C (I don't know anything about this one)
Shaman - C (I know almost nothing about this one. All I've seen is the "I can throw panthers!" story, which is cool)
Sorcerer - B (I know enough to be very interested, but not enough to love it. I always liked sorcerers better than wizards in 3.5, and now that sorcerers aren't gimped, I'm looking forward to it.)
Warden - C (I know almost nothing of substance here either)
Barbarian: C
Bard: A
Druid: B
Invoker: B
Shaman:C
Sorcerer: B
Warden: C
Bard: A
Druid: A
Both are very versatile, while playing in very different ways, even if their roles overlap. I want to see how different a leader/controller can be from a controller/leader.
Invoker: B
Avenger: B
I dig the Old Testament prophet archetype of the invoker, and the holy assassion Avenger seems cool too.
Warden: C
Shaman: C
They're both interesting, but neither's really high priority for me.
Barbarian: D
Sorcerer: D
I'm afraid that these two just don't appeal to me. Never have, really.
I'm more interested in what new races there are. What ARE the new races anyway? Is Half-Orc in there?
The new races are:
- Half-Orc
- Deva
- Shifter
- Gnome
- Goliath
So the Gnome is out of the MM and back into a PHB huh? Cool. Shifters too? So they aren't a Eberron specific race anymore it seems.
No, they've hit the big time. I'd say shifters got the nod ahead of dopplegangers because they worked better with PHB2's primal classes.
snip....
Could people stop repeating Salla's stupid and offensive line? Like I said before, its against the Code of Conduct. To be specific: http://forums.gleemax.com/community_coc.php
And the specific line:
Do not harass, bully, threaten, harm or cause discomfort for other persons, including any other members. For example:
* Use hate speech or racial, ethnic, sexist, homophobic or religious slurs
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You may not see it as an issue, but it is.
Well, if what you dislike about strikers is fragility, the barbarian is going to be a durable striker, not a fragile one, and rageblood (Str/Con) barbarians have defender as a secondary role.
Or there's another tack. Have you considered trying a warden and re-fluffing its transformation dailies as rages a la the new barbarian?
Sorry if I'm derailing the thread, but I think the reason I dislike Strikers in general is not due to their fragility, but because they're usually one-trick ponies. All you do is damage, and most of the striker classes presented so far just stand and spam their stuff without thinking (Twin Strike, anyone?).
Apparently, there aren't many interesting features in the role that encourages you to think... well, not as much as the other roles at least. When playing a leader it is crucial to know what kind of buff a given ally is going to need next turn, when playing a defender you gotta predict enemies' next moves, and the controller is all about playing smart (unless you're only limited to blaster type abilities, which IMO sucks pretty bad). So, when you're playing one of the other roles and you realize that your party was successful partly because you made a good decision, that's one of the best things there is about the game for me, sure, the striker might feel the same way, but not because he made a smart move, but just because he dealt lots of damage. And that's not my thing.
I'm not sure yet if the Avengers are going to be any different from that, but so far I like what I'm seeing (fluffwise and crunchwise), or maybe I'm too much hyped about them.