http://www.circvsmaximvs.com/showthread.php?p=690443#post690443
That's right. The phb2 will be arcane, divine, and primal heroes:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/9780786950164
Here is the complete line-up:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndlist&brand=dnd&year=All&tablesort=5
New items previously on amazon only:
Open Grave: Secrets of the Undead
My thoughts: A book about undead monsters, powers, etc.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/9780786950690
Caves of Carnage: Dungeon Tiles
My thoughts: New Dungeon Tiles. Duh.:P
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/9780786950195
Dungeon Delve
My thoughts: A super adventure.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/9780786951390
Player's Handbook II
My thoughts: The phb2. 'Nuff said.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/9780786950164
New items that appeared on wotc site first:
Assault on Nightwyrm Fortress
My thoughts: The third(and final) paragon tier adventure.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/9780786950003
E1 Death's Reach
My thoughts: The first epic tier adventure.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/9780786951024
Arcane Power
My thoughts: The arcane expansion book in the same vein of the martial one.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/9780786949571
Um... that guy looks like either a Barbarian or a Psychic Warrior.
Goliath barbarian(and gnome druid). More than likely anyway.
And if you look under the title you can see it says:
Arcane, Divine, and Primal Heroes
Just as the phb1 says:
Arcane, Divine, and Martial Heroes.
We can also somewhat start to guess a bit on the races on the cover too.
Edit: I don't think that is a Gnome Druid, the green skin and body shape/size doesn't look Gnomish to me, and Druids are shapeshifters mainly, and I imagine if it was a Druid that be shown. My guess for the race... Another Feyish race, Githyanki/zerai or some new race all together.
I'd say he is a Barbarian (Primal). It is neat to see the spirit panthers, guessing that is a Shaman power there.
We can also somewhat start to guess a bit on the races on the cover too.
Ah, good point. It could be a shaman.
Um... that guy looks like either a Barbarian or a Psychic Warrior.
The guy with the big axe on the cover of the PHB2? Probably not a Psychic Warrior given that the subtitle on the cover of the book is "Arcane, Divine, and Primal Heroes"...
But you know what, perhaps they are folding Psionic into Arcane to prevent "source creep."
It does indeed say that. But I remember hearing before that the PHBII was going to feature psionics in anticipation of Eberron next year.
But you know what, perhaps they are folding Psionic into Arcane to prevent "source creep."
Well that was more community expectation then anything else. We also know Psionics will exist as a separate power-source since it states itself as its own one in PHB1.
I wanted shadow!
Me too.
At least I know it's coming at some point.
Well that was more community expectation then anything else. We also know Psionics will exist as a separate power-source since it states itself as its own one in PHB1.
To be fair, it was said by someone at wotc(who's name I won't repeat as to not take a chance and get him in trouble) that the phb2 would have psionics, though at the time that could have been the plan. This was less than a month after the big announcement. So things may have changed, or he may have been mistaken.
I'd say he is a Barbarian (Primal). It is neat to see the spirit panthers, guessing that is a Shaman power there.
We can also somewhat start to guess a bit on the races on the cover too.
Edit: I don't think that is a Gnome Druid, the green skin and body shape/size doesn't look Gnomish to me, and Druids are shapeshifters mainly, and I imagine if it was a Druid that be shown. My guess for the race... Another Feyish race, Githyanki/zerai or some new race all together.
Can't be githyanki if that is a goliath. We only had 2 g's, and one is definitely gnome or gnoll(as it starts with gn).
I'm sticking with gnome and goliath as the cover races.
Edit:
From the other board
I'm guessing they wanted to flesh out arcane and divine to give four classes for the expansion books(to be on par with martial).
After this I suspect we will see phb3 have two or three(my guess is three) power sources, with phb4 being like phb2 and filling out the power sources while introducing one new source.
The math:
Phb1- 4 martial, 2 divine, and 2 arcane.
Phb2- 4 primal, 2 divine, and 2 arcane.
Phb3- 4 psionic, 2 shadow, and 2 ki.
The power sources are a guess, but the math works out.
Phb4- 4 elemental, 2 shadow, and 2 ki.
http://www.circvsmaximvs.com/showthread.php?t=45770
Some ponderings on the classes and races:
Races:
For races, we were given D, G, G, H, and S as first letters, and N(preceeded by a G), E, H, and O as second letters, and R as a last letter.
Seems we will have Gnomes for sure, and that certainly seems to be a Goliath(though he could be a Half-giant, but I doubt it).
So left over we have first letters of D, H, and S. We still have second letters of E and H(maybe O, as one second letter wasn't mentioned and it is possible to have two O's), and a last letter of R.
I'm going to guess that S(first) and H(second) will be Shadar-Kai. Maybe Hobgoblin for the H(and maybe the second letter O).
Classes:
For classes, this seem to be all but confirmed: Bard(arcane), barbarian(primal), druid(primal), sorceror(arcane), and shaman(primal).
The letters given were B, B, D, I, S, S, T, and W.
Give the above, we have I, T, and W left and 1 primal and 2 divine classes to fill in(if we assume they want 4 classes for each source and are filling them as I propsed in my previous post). These are obviously the 3 completely new classes.
Now none of this is given and is just my speculation. Thoughts?
That being said holy crap is there alot of stuff coming out. How did you guys keep up with all of this before? I thought WHFR had alot of books.
Well, it might just be me but I'm rather happy to see it appears they are going to provide us with a ready made adventure series through the end of Epic.
That being said holy crap is there alot of stuff coming out. How did you guys keep up with all of this before? I thought WHFR had alot of books.
Haha.:P
Not all of us kept up. Some of us picked and chose.
I happened to have kept up and it was a huge chunk of money added up over time(though I only got the campaign settings themselves and not the setting supplements, so that was some relief).
I don't regret it. I have a huge resource to draw upon for 4e(and future editions). And I can always go back and actually play 3e.
I will likely gather them all up again(I have this bad habit of collecting things I shouldn't:D).
But yeah, not everyone is like me. In fact, I'm more than likely a small minority. Buy what you like and skip what you don't like.
Goliath barbarian(and gnome druid). More than likely anyway.
Bring on the Goliaths!!
So, yeah, I too am surprised at the lack of Psionics being included, what with Eberron coming out next year. And I want my monk (Ki Striker?)!
So, my speculations:
-Barbarian = Primal Defender
-Bard = Arcane Leader
-Druid = Primal Striker (hybrid)
-Shaman = Primal Leader
-Sorcerer = Arcane Controller
As for the other 3, I guess these are the 3 that I heard will be completely new classes to D&D - maybe a Divine Striker and Controller or something and another fellow?
I too am shocked that there is no psionics, though maybe they are saving it for the setting after eberron(hint hint).;)
I started to have my doubts when I started hearing that arcane(and then divine) classes would be in it.
But then again some people like arcane and divine and will be happy to get more classes for those sources.
I'm personally waiting the most for shadow(any shadow class will kick ass) and ki(monk and my all-time favorite ninja).
Edit:
Oh, I'm thinking T will be Totemist(primal). That would leave I and W for divine classes. Inquisitor makes for a good sounding divine striker(I'm not to first to mention it). W may be Warsomethingorother(:P). I seriously got nothing for W.
I'll have to construct a role/power grid to see what we would likely have and what roles/sources these classes will fill.
I too am shocked that there is no psionics, though maybe they are saving it for the setting after eberron(hint hint).;)
Dark Sun!
They have sated it is being considered for their yearly campaign setting model.
I'm personally waiting the most for shadow
Ah, for shadow, I'm speculating:
-Illusionist = Shadow Controller
-Necromancer = Shadow Leader
My predictions:
Barbarian - Primal Defender/Striker
Bard - Arcane Leader and/or Controller
Druid - Divine Leader
Sorcerer - Arcane Striker/Controller
Shaman - Primal Leader or Controller
Now, some thoughts I had concerning this cover:
1. This may not be the final cover, as we know from the PHB, covers could be changed and it indeed may change to incorporate other power sources, on this listing we don't have any description yet, so it may change.
2. While I'm disappointed with the lack of a Psionic power source, perhaps, psionic an primal are being rolled into one. After all magic is learned, but psionics is something you're generally born with. Just a random, unlikely thought.
3. It does seem like we do have goliaths upcoming - considering the popularity of the I have noticed on these boards, I'm not surprised. However, that is not a 100% guarantee that they are indeed, as the the cover may change and once again, there is no info in the listing.
-T could be Totemist (Primal)
-Bard - Arcane Leader and/or Controller
-Druid - Divine Leader
-Sorcerer - Arcane Striker
-Shaman - Primal Leader or Controller
-Good call on the Totemist.
-The Bard has been confirmed as an Arcane Leader.
-I'm pretty sure the Druid has been confirmed as a Primal hybrid class.
-The Sorcerer has been confirmed as an Arcane Controller.
-The shaman has been confirmed as a Leader.
I could buy that. They might roll things like shamanistic powers and psionics into one broad "primal" heading.
Psionics has been confirmed as its own power source.
These are the confirmed power sources:
-Arcane
-Divine
-Elemental
-Ki
-Martial
-Primal
-Psionic
-Shadow
So I have to wait years...years...for my Illusionists, Psions, Monks and whatever classes are rolled in with the Elemental power source?
At first I liked the idea of WoTC's release structure for 4th Edition but now I'm kind of torked off...this one new power source per year garbage just isn't going to fly with me.
Are you listening WoTC? I make gobs and gobs of money, and I have no mortgage or children...I want to give you my money now in exchange for a richly textured fantasy environment with encyclopedias full of different options! Oh WoTC...why won't you take my money now?
*sigh* Well...get to work homebrewers.
this one new power source per year garbage just isn't going to fly with me.
That isn't concrete, who knows, the PHB III could be:
Ki, Psionic and Shadow Heroes
…I would be thrilled.
I too am disappointed that the shadow source might be postponed for 2 years since my pc is a shadow mage. On the other hand, I can convert to a Star Pact Warlock by re-tooling the fluff if I know that no alternative is going to be available for that long. It is also worth noting the illusionist powers for wizards in Dragon would allow you to build a passable illusionist in conjunction with colour spray, blur, mirror image, the prismatic spells, disguise self etc most of which were illusionist exclusive spells in 1e. It is entirely possible that the whole illusionist class will be folded into arcane, perhaps reserving the shadow source for necromancers and shadowcasters. The strong link of gnomes to the feywild and arcane source made me wonder whether the illusionist class might be tooled for arcane.
If shadow magic spells remain in any recognisable form (which seems unlikely since the powers in 4e are not open-ended) it may be given to shadowcasters and arcane illusionists can multi-class if they want access to that kind of flavour.
At least we will definitely be getting the bard, sorcerer, druid, and barbarian to be getting on with.
I suppose we can assume that the splat-books will concentrate on powers and paragon paths rather than classes.
Yep – confirmed (and feats).
I'm still thinking the W is witch, as a divine controller.
While I would love to see a Witch class, I've never thought of the Witch as divine.
I would think arcane, shadow, primal, or elemental.
While I would love to see a Witch class, I've never thought of the Witch as divine.
I would think arcane, shadow, primal, or elemental.
I should have specified, I had pegged it as primal at first, but I could see both happening.
It does indeed say that. But I remember hearing before that the PHBII was going to feature psionics in anticipation of Eberron next year.
But you know what, perhaps they are folding Psionic into Arcane to prevent "source creep."
They did that with the illusionist - their damage is Psi.
Dear Devs;
I'm mildly disappointed at the lack of a Psionic powersource in PHBII, but I can understand the reasoning. Primal had better kick ass, though.
If you're holding out on Psionics in order to give it full 4 class treatment in PHBIII all will be forgiven. If you're doing that in order to have a better base for a new Dark Sun setting, I'll wax and detail all of your cars.
Signed,
Batshido
My man, bonethug, thanks for this!
So, yeah, I too am surprised at the lack of Psionics being included, what with Eberron coming out next year. And I want my monk (Ki Striker?)!
So, my speculations:
-Barbarian = Primal Defender
-Bard = Arcane Leader
-Druid = Primal Striker (hybrid)
-Shaman = Primal Leader
-Sorcerer = Arcane Controller
Hm, I would guess
-Barbarian = Primal Striker
-Druid = Primal Leader
-Shaman = Primal Controller
Me too.
At least I know it's coming at some point.
Perhaps there will be something in the undead book, like a necromancer class
Hm, I would guess
-Barbarian = Primal Striker
-Druid = Primal Leader
-Shaman = Primal Controller
I'd switch Druid and Shaman. Shamans often have leadership roles in tribes. The Druid could easily focus on old control staples like Entangle.
I'd say PHB2, being the second one, is going to deviate less from the new and more from "filling in the blanks, and then some". PHB3, on the other hand, will probably be Psionic, Shadow, & Ki (as somebody already stated). In which case I'm REALLY looking forward to that, although the PHB2 is also an instant-buy for me.
So what, we get one new power source a PHB? PHB 3 is "Martial, Primal, and Shadow", PHB 4 is "Primal, Shadow, and Psionic", PHB 5 is "Shadow, Psionic, and Ki", PHB 6 is "Psionic, Ki, and Cuddles", etc?
I hope that's not the trend.
Only one new power source per PHB?
So I have to wait years...years...for my Illusionists, Psions, Monks and whatever classes are rolled in with the Elemental power source?
At first I liked the idea of WoTC's release structure for 4th Edition but now I'm kind of torked off...this one new power source per year garbage just isn't going to fly with me.
Are you listening WoTC? I make gobs and gobs of money, and I have no mortgage or children...I want to give you my money now in exchange for a richly textured fantasy environment with encyclopedias full of different options! Oh WoTC...why won't you take my money now?
*sigh* Well...get to work homebrewers.
Not necessarily. After the PHB2, the martial, arcane, divine, and primal power sources will be 'done'. They'll have four classes each (not counting the swordmage for FR), and will therefore be ready for a power sourcebook.
That will free up the other sources for attention. I'm expecting the psi, shadow and ki sources to be showcased in PHB3. Their model may well be four classes in one source, and two in two others.
Psionics has been confirmed as its own power source.
These are the confirmed power sources:
-Arcane
-Divine
-Elemental
-Ki
-Martial
-Primal
-Psionic
-Shadow
While yes these were mentioned, perhaps the developers have changed their mind and found that some power sources aren't needed. Believe me, I want a Psionic power source for Eberron next year and it would have made sense to tie into that product the psionic classes. But, maybe it will be in 2010 with the Dark Sun setting. Who knows.
/cry
So what, we get one new power source a PHB? PHB 3 is "Martial, Primal, and Shadow", PHB 4 is "Primal, Shadow, and Psionic", PHB 5 is "Shadow, Psionic, and Ki", PHB 6 is "Psionic, Ki, and Cuddles", etc?
I hope that's not the trend.
Wait.. there's a Cuddles power source? Really? Sign me up. I'll gladly use all those powers on any Drow priestesses, or preferably the female half-elf on page 42 of the PHB. :P
Exactly like they said they were planning on doing. :-)
I'm not that bummed that psionics won't be coming yet. Despite the return of Eberron, Psionics wasn't that big in the setting. At least not in comparison to Dark Sun. Magic was actually a much bigger part, and so long as they keep that (and bring in the Artificer), I'll be happy.
Maybe it's a sort of "dungeon/adventure compendium"?
The amazon listing for "Dungeon Delve" has the word "adventure" in it.
Maybe it's a sort of "dungeon/adventure compendium"?
Another thing that confuses me is that the Amazon listing lists it as a hardcover.
Was Keep on the Shadowfell a hardcover? I never bought it.
thinking of making Psions = Feypact warlocks, and defilers infernal pact warlocks, mechanically, for the "flavour".
Another thing that confuses me is that the Amazon listing lists it as a hardcover.
Was Keep on the Shadowfell a hardcover? I never bought it.
It was listed as hard cover but was not.
Amazon most likely made a mistake. Delve is listed as a rules supplement, as a Core book, and without a module code. It's unlikely that it's an adventure.
On the other: How the **** are they gonna do Eberron without Psionics?
On one hand: YAY!
On the other: How the **** are they gonna do Eberron without Psionics?
Focus on Khorvaire in the handbooks, and turn the Inspired into Star or Fey warlocks. Star Warlockery seems to be a reasonable fit for their shtick. Sarlona will probably be relegated to online articles some next year or the one after.
Yeah, it's a bit disappointing to know there won't be psionics in PHB2. But those hungry for Barbarians, Druids and Sorcerers - like my players - had to be sated.
Barbarian - Primal Defender
Druid - Primal Striker
Sorcerer - Arcane Controller
Shaman - Primal Leader
Totemist - Primal Controller
Inquisitor - Divine Striker
Witch - Divine Controller
Bold means the role has been confirmed.
Focus on Khorvaire in the handbooks, and turn the Inspired into Star or Fey warlocks. Star Warlockery seems to be a reasonable fit for their shtick. Sarlona will probably be relegated to online articles some next year or the one after.
Yeah, it's a bit disappointing to know there won't be psionics in PHB2. But those hungry for Barbarians, Druids and Sorcerers - like my players - had to be sated.
But what about the Kalashtar? With no Ki or Psionics they'll be.... nothing. o.o
It allows them to release Arcane Power and Divine Power next year (6 months apart) then reelase the PHB3, which contains a similar 4/2/2 ratio and release Primal Power and X Power the next year. This allows them to constantly have four classes with each power source for each Power book, and allows them to release two power books per year.
Incidentally, given how big of a deal they've made about the Shadowfell and the Elemental Chaos, I'd expect both the Shadow and Elemental power sources to be in the PHB 3, which would probably mean that Ki would also be there to balance out all the magicy classes.
Could they possibly be putting the psionics into the Eberron Player's Guide?
Doubtful.
While psionics is an important part of eberron, life there can go on without it(at least for a while).
Dark Sun!
They have sated it is being considered for their yearly campaign setting model.
Now there's a place where psionics is the lifeblood of the setting.;)
Focus on Khorvaire in the handbooks, and turn the Inspired into Star or Fey warlocks. Star Warlockery seems to be a reasonable fit for their shtick. Sarlona will probably be relegated to online articles some next year or the one after.
Um no.
Mess up your own campaign, Psionics will be in Eberron.
EK
Only one new power source per PHB?
False. That has neither been confirmed nor even hinted at.
Check my guesstimate
I'm guessing they wanted to flesh out arcane and divine to give four classes for the expansion books(to be on par with martial).
After this I suspect we will see phb3 have two or three(my guess is three) power sources, with phb4 being like phb2 and filling out the power sources while introducing one new source.
The math:
Phb1- 4 martial, 2 divine, and 2 arcane.
Phb2- 4 primal, 2 divine, and 2 arcane.
Phb3- 4 psionic, 2 shadow, and 2 ki.
The power sources are a guess, but the math works out.
Phb4- 4 elemental, 2 shadow, and 2 ki.
That would once again give use 3 new sources in phb3, and then 1 new source in phb4.
It's odd that they would have more arcane classes in PHB2 when they are bringing out Complete Arcane so I suppose we can assume that the splat-books will concentrate on powers and paragon paths rather than classes.
The splats for specific power sources will be along the lines of this:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/217897200
New options for fighters, rangers, rogues, and warlords.
Martial Power is the first of a line of player-friendly supplements offering hundreds of new options for D&D characters. This tome focuses on the martial heroes: characters that rely on their combat talents and keen wits for survival.
This book provides new archetypal builds for the fighter, ranger, rogue, and warlord classes, including new character powers, feats, paragon paths, and epic destinies.
The phb's, and likely the campaign player's guides, will be the place for new classes. They've said as much.
So the reason for more arcane and divine classes in the phb2 is to give more classes to fill the arcane and divine expansion books.
Also the reason that the phb3 is highly likely to have 3 new power sources.
The amazon listing for "Dungeon Delve" has the word "adventure" in it.
Maybe it's a sort of "dungeon/adventure compendium"?
I doubt it. I'm guessing it is some sort of super adventure. An old school dungeon delve of sorts.
At least, that is what the title and page count suggest to me.
Another thing that confuses me is that the Amazon listing lists it as a hardcover.
Was Keep on the Shadowfell a hardcover? I never bought it.
No, but kots wasn't 160 pages.;)
Um no.
Mess up your own campaign, Psionics will be in Eberron.
EK
Deep breaths. I was only guessing how WotC might do the Eberron setting without psionic classes.
If you know for sure that psionics will be in Eberron, then you either work at Wizards or are helping them with the Eberron material. My guess is that neither is the case and you are speculating along with the rest of us.
This makes perfect sense.
It allows them to release Arcane Power and Divine Power next year (6 months apart) then reelase the PHB3, which contains a similar 4/2/2 ratio and release Primal Power and X Power the next year. This allows them to constantly have four classes with each power source for each Power book, and allows them to release two power books per year.
Incidentally, given how big of a deal they've made about the Shadowfell and the Elemental Chaos, I'd expect both the Shadow and Elemental power sources to be in the PHB 3, which would probably mean that Ki would also be there to balance out all the magicy classes.
There is NO WAY IN HELL that they are waiting until phb4 to do psionics. I can already see the rage building with it not being in the phb2.
Plus they said that primal and psionics were the top two power sources they wanted to get working on.
My guess is that either shadow or elemental will wait until phb4, lest the monk fans become more enraged. Seems most likely that elemental, with potentially all new classes, will be the one that waits.
Classes:
Bard(arcane leader)
Sorcerer(arcane controller)
Inquisitor(divine striker)
Witch(divine controller)
Barbarian(primal striker)
Druid(primal controller mostly)
Shaman(primal leader)
Totemist(primal defender)
Races:
Gnome
Goliath
Shifter
Half-orc
Deva
That fills all the "requirements" for what I think the power source/role breakdown will be, and takes up all the letters for the classes and races.
Still not 100% set on the roles for the druid, barbarian, and totemist.
Classes:
Bard(arcane leader)
Sorcerer(arcane controller)
Inquisitor(divine striker)
Witch(divine controller)
Barbarian(primal striker)
Druid(primal controller mostly)
Shaman(primal leader)
Totemist(primal defender)
Good guesses, though I think we have heard of too many of them before for all the older ones to be in there.
Races:
Gnome
Goliath
Shifter
Half-orc
Deva
The only one I disagree with here is the shifter, as the Eberron book will be coming out a few months later, I don't see them blowing their load there.
With it being the "divine" source book I am inclined to believe that the assimar's (SP) replacement is going to be in there, so that could be the other S. I think Fodigg had a good name for them.
One other thing, does anyone know what the power source and role are going to be for the swordmage class in FR?
I'm really hoping my campaign is still going when that book releases, although we'll probably finish by then. If it is, I'm definitely introducing a plot device where the players are "infused by nature" and can now take multiclass feats for the Primal classes.
My guess:
PHB1 has four martial classes, two arcane, & two divine.
PHB2 has two arcane, two divine, and four primal classes.
PHB3 has two psionics, two ki, two shadow, and one of those sets will be "filled out" to four. However, at this point this is more or less a guess.
So for the next several years, each power source will have four core classes associated with it.
EDIT: I'd guess that the Swordmage's power source is arcane.
Everyone's talking about the druid being a primal leader or controller. I get the primal part, but I always heard the 4e druid was focusing on shapeshift more. Wouldn't that tend to make the class more of a striker or a defender?
One other thing, does anyone know what the power source and role are going to be for the swordmage class in FR?
Arcane defender.
Focus on Khorvaire in the handbooks, and turn the Inspired into Star or Fey warlocks. Star Warlockery seems to be a reasonable fit for their shtick. Sarlona will probably be relegated to online articles some next year or the one after.
Yeah, it's a bit disappointing to know there won't be psionics in PHB2. But those hungry for Barbarians, Druids and Sorcerers - like my players - had to be sated.
Either that, or we may see a bit of psionic support in early Eberron books, with more support and love for them come a PHB featuring psionics. To be honest, there's only a couple races that use psionics. If anything, they may relegate those races to simply being "on the side" races until they feature psionics.
But what about the Kalashtar? With no Ki or Psionics they'll be.... nothing. o.o
Not necessarily. Remember that the path of light is a Religion, and many Kalashtar devote themselves to it. So while I am disappointed by the lack of psionics, they Kalashtar, Quori and Inspiried are NOT rendered useless by the lack of such power source. After all, the Illithid is a psychic monster and we don't have the psionic powersource for them. Are they rendered impotent by the lack of such? No.
Not necessarily. Remember that the path of light is a Religion, and many Kalashtar devote themselves to it. So while I am disappointed by the lack of psionics, they Kalashtar, Quori and Inspiried are NOT rendered useless by the lack of such power source. After all, the Illithid is a psychic monster and we don't have the psionic powersource for them. Are they rendered impotent by the lack of such? No.[/QUOTEI was just thinking... Radiant... Path of Light.... OMG THE CLERIC WILL BE POPULAR WITH KALASHTAR NOW!! o.o /setttingshake
Either that, or we may see a bit of psionic support in early Eberron books, with more support and love for them come a PHB featuring psionics. To be honest, there's only a couple races that use psionics. If anything, they may relegate those races to simply being "on the side" races until they feature psionics.
From what I have seen, the setting was designed with the sad fact of the controversial nature of Psionic in mind (pun not verry intended); Sarlona is distant and exotic.. and potentialy ignorable. Also, they offered idea how to change stuff for a more arcane 'dream magic' for the.... ones who clearly don't like.
It's probably one of the reason - weeks ago, when the forums go rearranged, there was a few Psionic threads, and well... there was fighting, to be frank.
As long as Psionic will not be of the 'furnitures', that 'grognards' will rise to barricades to DEFEND them, well...
Either that, or we may see a bit of psionic support in early Eberron books, with more support and love for them come a PHB featuring psionics. To be honest, there's only a couple races that use psionics. If anything, they may relegate those races to simply being "on the side" races until they feature psionics.
Since the Inspired are monsters, it will be possible to emulate psionic ability with them, however roughly. I have no doubt the kalashtar, usually regarded as Eberron's "psionic" race, will appear in the Eberron player's guide. It will just be designed to suit existing 4e classes rather than a future one. Though kalashtar may have a racial ability with a psionic flavor.
Actually I suspect that a psionic class will be released on DDI soon after Eberron's release, so DMs focusing on Sarlona have something to play with.
-Shaman = Primal Controller
The Shaman has been confirmed as a Leader.
There is no reason why the Eberron book can't come out with psionics before we get a PHB with psionics. It's not like Psi is going to be using a different subsystem of mechanics in this edition...
Yes there is, it's called the "One New Class per campaign setting, all other classes go in the PHB" reason and everyone knows that the new class if Artificer for the Eberron book.
There is no reason why the Eberron book can't come out with psionics before we get a PHB with psionics. It's not like Psi is going to be using a different subsystem of mechanics in this edition...
Depending on the changes they made to the setting, Psionics may not feature heavily at first.
If Kalashtar are rare enough, the PCs can be played off as outliers who practice more traditional magic or martial classes. Then they can do some sort of paradigm shift once we get Psionics (invasion, surge of psionic energy, whatever) that opens up the material in the book to the setting at large.
Psionics has been confirmed as its own power source.
These are the confirmed power sources:
-Arcane
-Divine
-Elemental
-Ki
-Martial
-Primal
-Psionic
-Shadow
I hope they're different enough from one another. "Shadow" is weird because seems like that would have worked fine thematically for warlocks. Which begs the question, how similar is Shadow and Arcane?
And the whole "how similar are Elemental and Primal?" question, seen before already on these boards, is along the same lines.
Finally, I hope some of these new ones aren't just for one or two "rare" or fringe classes. Martial applying to a variety of melee-oriented or weapon-oriented classes is good. Ki applying to only monks? Not sure that's good.
Ultimately, if each power source has core themes and powers that do little to zero "toe-stepping" on others, that's what matters.
Yes there is, it's called the "One New Class per campaign setting, all other classes go in the PHB" reason and everyone knows that the new class if Artificer for the Eberron book.
Are there any eberron-specific classes?
They can put in all the fluff and mechanics for the world, talk about psionics as if you already had the books, and put in psionic races with fluff and mechanics. They already have abilities that do psychic damage.
So yes, you won't have the psi classes, but everything eberron-specific can be put in the book so that it will support those classes when they are released in the PHB.
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Granted, if what you're asking for is to have your "soul knife" before ECS comes out, that's an issue. But it should not impact the writing of the book.
Good guesses, though I think we have heard of too many of them before for all the older ones to be in there.
Mike corrected himself and said it would be 5 old ones and 3 new ones.
The only one I disagree with here is the shifter, as the Eberron book will be coming out a few months later, I don't see them blowing their load there.
That depends on how many new races they want to put into the eberron player's guide. If they only put 2 like the fr player's guide then that would mean that other eberron originals would have to show up elsewhere.
With it being the "divine" source book I am inclined to believe that the assimar's (SP) replacement is going to be in there, so that could be the other S. I think Fodigg had a good name for them.
The deva is the replacement aasimar(sp?). Or that's my guess anyway.
Everyone's talking about the druid being a primal leader or controller. I get the primal part, but I always heard the 4e druid was focusing on shapeshift more. Wouldn't that tend to make the class more of a striker or a defender?
Everyone says that but no one explains why shapeshifting is tied to striking(or less often said, defending). It can just as easily be tied to controlling or leading, but we know the shaman is the primal leader. Now they could have two primal leaders, but I doubt it.
I think the druid will be a small part leader, a small part striker, and a large part controller, since it will be a hybrid. That's my guess anyway.
One other thing, does anyone know what the power source and role are going to be for the swordmage class in FR?
Arcane defender.
Someone suggested Witch, but how about Witch Doctor?
It's clearly primal, dunno what its role would be, though.
Phb1- 4 martial, 2 divine, and 2 arcane.
Phb2- 4 primal, 2 divine, and 2 arcane.
Phb3- 4 psionic, 2 shadow, and 2 ki.
The power sources are a guess, but the math works out.
Phb4- 4 elemental, 2 shadow, and 2 ki.
If assume this is correct and 2010 really sees the introduction of a 4E Dark Sun campaign setting, I'd say PHB3 will be 4psionic, 2elemental, 2shadow which leaves for
PHB4 4ki, 2elemental and 2 shadow and that says 4E Oriental Adventures in 2011 to me.
Just wild speculation.
There is no reason why the Eberron book can't come out with psionics before we get a PHB with psionics. It's not like Psi is going to be using a different subsystem of mechanics in this edition...
But remember again, this is a controversial part of the D&D legacy...
Everyone's talking about the druid being a primal leader or controller. I get the primal part, but I always heard the 4e druid was focusing on shapeshift more. Wouldn't that tend to make the class more of a striker or a defender?
I completely agree with you. The Barbarian is the defender and the druid is the striker I would think
As for psionics, they already have psionic races in the MM (the 2 giths and the illithids) and they have racial powers that are psychic energy type. Remember that power source and energy aren't restrictive. Many of the wizard's attacks do elemental and psychic energy damage. Not all paladin attacks do radiant damage and anything purely physical/weapon based would be arguably 'martial' damage.
While we may not have psionic classes in Eberron at first (or anywhere) we could have psionic races that have a single psionic feature and perhaps racial feats that give them more should they choose to develop the psionic part of their heritage.
Saying Eberron can't come out without psionic classes is like saying FR can't come out with bards. After all the bards and the Harpers play a vital and pervasive role in FR (at least until the spellplague and maybe after the Dales were taking over by the Shades and Zhent they're gone) but we'll have the FR books before the Bard class.
I hope they're different enough from one another. "Shadow" is weird because seems like that would have worked fine thematically for warlocks. Which begs the question, how similar is Shadow and Arcane?
And the whole "how similar are Elemental and Primal?" question, seen before already on these boards, is along the same lines.
Finally, I hope some of these new ones aren't just for one or two "rare" or fringe classes. Martial applying to a variety of melee-oriented or weapon-oriented classes is good. Ki applying to only monks? Not sure that's good.
Ultimately, if each power source has core themes and powers that do little to zero "toe-stepping" on others, that's what matters.
I really don't see any way in which arcane is anything like shadow. Arcane is basically reordering the universe to your liking through complex formula and an understanding of the underlying principles of the universe. Shadow is channeling necrotic energy and the essence of shadows, most likely tapping into the Shadowfell in the process.
Likewise I don't see how elemntal and primal are anything similar. One is channeling spirits of your ancestors and animals to gain the strength held by them. Elemental is tapping into the building blocks of the universe used by the primordials to initiially shape the universe.
As for Ki it has been speculated that it will likely contain the classes based off incarnum as well as the monk, so they do have other options when it comes to Ki classes.
Also, they could key the samurai off of ki(yes, this would make ki the "eastern" bourne power source, but it does make for a good oa setting).
If that's the case, then you only need one more class to round out to four for the power expansion book.
And no, I don't think the incarnum classes will be rolled into ki. IF incarnum comes, it will be it own power source me thinks. Remember, the 8 sources given only represents about 90% of the classes they have in mind.;)
On one hand: YAY!
On the other: How the **** are they gonna do Eberron without Psionics?
Perhaps expecting that the CS will come out toward the end of the year? As Forgotten Realms has been said to mention Barbarians, Bards, and Gnomes in anticipation of PHBII, perhaps the Eberron book will mentions psionic classes ahead of time, in anticipation of PHBIII. The fluffy information will be there, and ready to go when the crunch comes.
It can be ignored and changed off, ifneeded, by a DM.
Sarlona is distant and closed, and hold most of the setting psionic.
As long as Psionic will be seen as not fantasy and overpowered/broken, sadly... well...
Hum.... Ninja is a rogue path, I say. Or a shadow striker class.
It could be done as a rogue "path", either as a paragon path or with more ninja like powers for the class itself.
But I think it would be best served if the ninja was its own class, as looking at the flavor of ninjas and rogues they are VERY different.
The only thing they really have in common is that they are sneaky and they make good assassins. They would both have very different powers, though.
If you played the 3e ninja, it felt nothing like a 3e(or 4e) rogue(save for the sneaky part).
And as for it being shadow, I disagree. Sure you could do a shadow ninja, but it isn't the same as a more basic(martial) or supernatural(ki) ninja. You could probably make a pretty good martial ninja with the rogue, but you couldn't make a good 3e supernatural ninja with martial or shadow powers unless you seriously reflavored it, which defeats the purpose.
Ninja will be a ki striker. I'm calling it now(and have called it since I first heard of power sources and thought of more possibilities). They can do a paragon path for the ninja called the shadow ninja, though. That would be cool.
Of course, if you want a more esoteric, mystic ninja...
Elemental power source could be a very good fit too - Ninja had that Shugenja esoterism magic, I think. The elementalist japanese tradition or something.
Ninja and Rogues are pretty much the same... if you go for an historical ninja definition (or closer of that if they existed at all...)
Sort of. They have so many different accounts and tales, though. Some were similar to rogues, as I said. The more "legendary" ninjas were far from rogue-like.
Of course, if you want a more esoteric, mystic ninja...
Elemental power source could be a very good fit too - Ninja had that Shugenja esoterism magic, I think. The elementalist japanese tradition or something.
True, but that is if they choose to go that route.
It boils down to if they are trying to recreate the 3e ninja(which is HEAVILY tied to ki), or if they mold the ninja from a different group of tales.
I would not mind a shadow ninja or an elemental ninja(a martial ninja is sort of covered by rogue, though it could use a more ninja-like power-set), but it would not be the 3e ninja, which is my point. I would not be disappointed if we don't get the ki ninja and instead got another type of ninja, I just don't think they are going that way(especially since the ki power source is confirmed and they need classes besides the monk to fill it out).
I doubt it. I'm guessing it is some sort of super adventure. An old school dungeon delve of sorts.
At least, that is what the title and page count suggest to me.
No, but kots wasn't 160 pages.;)
It cant be an adventure...Wheres the tags for the tiers? H for Heroic P for Paragon or E for epic.
All modules are listed as H1 P1 E1 ect.....for example E1 Death's Reach
Also all adventures seem to have a page count of 96 (Assault on Nightwrym Fortress 96, Death Reach 96, ect...)
While Source books have 160 pages (look at the arcane powers sourcebook page count same as dungeon delve 160, martial power sourcebook 160)
Price is also high for an adventure at $30. Adventures are all priced at $25. While all powers books (arcane and martial) are listed as being $30
My guess is its a sourcebook full of traps,hazards and poisons and such....
It cant be an adventure...Wheres the tags for the tiers? H for Heroic P for Paragon or E for epic.
All modules are listed as H1 P1 E1 ect.....for example E1 Death's Reach
Also all adventures seem to have a page count of 96 (Assault on Nightwrym Fortress 96, Death Reach 96, ect...)
While Source books have 160 pages (look at the arcane powers sourcebook page count same as dungeon delve 160, martial power sourcebook 160)
Price is also high for an adventure at $30. Adventures are all priced at $25. While all powers books (arcane and martial) are listed as being $30
My guess is its a sourcebook full of traps,hazards and poisons and such....
Unless amazon is wrong(which they could be), it is an adventure. I've stated this already.
Hey, you got you're sourcebook in my adventure!
It's both, a dungeon undergound source book with a mini-adventure to showcase the rules. Look for future supplements like; Wilderness Run, Sea Voyages, Tales of the Desert and Halls of Ice. Or my favorite, Tropical Treasures.
Bel
Amazon has been wrong before.
BTW, I think it's a super adventure, if amazon is right. It sounds like a classic style d&d adventure(dungeon delve; the name just screams dungeon delve:P).
Yes there is, it's called the "One New Class per campaign setting, all other classes go in the PHB" reason and everyone knows that the new class if Artificer for the Eberron book.
Well, considering that the Artificer is coming out this month in Dragon, we may be in luck, and the 1 new class in the Player's Guide to Eberron (2009) might be Psionic.
Someone suggested Witch, but how about Witch Doctor?
I believe they have stated that all class will have one-word titles/names, so no Glorious Defender of the Purple Bunky or what have you.
I'd like to point out that there is no reason to assume that a power source will fill all four roles.
Totally, they have stated they are not obsessing about filling out the power source/role grid, probably so we don't have overly contrived concepts like this Martial Controller some people are clamouring for.
That engineer/alchemist/dragoon etc business was doing my head in.
I'd like to point out that there is no reason to assume that a power source will fill all four roles. Martial has two strikers instead of a controller for instance. Also, I think that the T will be the Tempest, a primal controller.
Actually, mearls (sort of)pointed out why they don't have a martial controller(at least in phb1) in an interview on criticalhits:
1)The decided to make the ranger martial and put him in phb1.
2)The ranger was decidely a striker(I assume from what mearls said that they may have discussed making him a controller). Same goes for the warlock, as they were originally trying to concept it as a controller.
3)They were still trying to nail down how to make controllers, and said that we should expect some more now that they have a good grasp on it. One problem was that the wizard was the mold for what a controller was, and they must either be thinking of controllers in new ways or making some controllers work differently.
So while they said they aren't trying to fill out "the grid", some point down the line they will likely have at least 1 role/source combo each. If my predictions on when the sources are coming are correct, the will have at least 4 classes for each source by phb4. That means phb5 would have to be new sources, old sources likely going into roles they haven't before, or both.