So lets see what we have confirmed and rumor-wise as to the class make-up of the PHB3:
Confirmed:
Monk: Psionic Striker. Playtested in Dragon
Psion: Psionic Controller. Previewed in the DDI
Seeker: Primal Controller. Previewed in the DDI
Rumored/Speculated:
Battlemind: Mentioned in the Wilder text
Empath: Psionic Leader? Mentioned in passing by a developer awhile back
Templar: Divine X? Mentioned as a divine class in the Eberron Campaign Guide. Could be the old name for the Avenger.
Anything else?
Although I tend to believe the "Templar" reference was an accident ("Avenger" was originally going to be called "Templar", the list in ECS does not mention "Avenger", all equals "oops" to me), both Templar and Defiler could be upcoming for the Dark Sun CS.
Similarly, "Seeker" could be upcoming for the Dragonlance CS.
Once again, we are given clues that point in either direction. They're tricky, those WotC's.
My bet, however: Defiler in Dark Sun (which is the 2010 CS). No such thing as Templar. All the others in PHB3.
Edit: Bah, beaten to the punch.
We had a "Defiler" dropped a while back, too.
Although I tend to believe the "Templar" reference was an accident ("Avenger" was originally going to be called "Templar", the list in ECS does not mention "Avenger", all equals "oops" to me), both Templar and Defiler could be upcoming for the Dark Sun CS.
Similarly, "Seeker" could be upcoming for the Dragonlance CS.
Once again, we are given clues that point in either direction. They're tricky, those WotC's.
My bet, however: Defiler in Dark Sun (which is the 2010 CS). No such thing as Templar. All the others in PHB3.
Defiler was in an April fools article. Dont use it as a drop at a possible class. Not that it still could not end up being one, but still.
Defiler was in an April fools article. Dont use it as a drop at a possible class. Not that it still could not end up being one, but still.
Not exactly; Witchalock was in the April Fools article. Defiler was mentioned in the same article, which means it's not in fact confirmed; however, it's more than likely going to be covered, class or template or whatnot, in the Dark Sun Player's Guide, considering how important the Defilers were to that settting. Though, they could be reserved to be only NPCs, and being monsters in the Dark Sun Campaign Guide.
This is assuming that Dark Sun will be converted to 4e, of course.
Most likely,
Monk
Psion
Empath?
*Some sort of Psionic Defender
Seeker?
Another 3 classes, split up amongst Divine and Primal.
Also, OP, please, call it the Psionic Power source. Monks don't do Psychic damage, but they're Psionic. Psionic doesn't necessarily equal Psychic damage. It's not the Psychic Power Source.
Monk
Psion
Empath
"Defender"
Seeker
Unknown
Also, OP, please, call it the Psionic Power source. Monks don't do Psychic damage, but they're Psionic. Psionic doesn't necessarily equal Psychic damage. It's not the Psychic Power Source.
Huh?
We had a "Defiler" dropped a while back, too.
Although I tend to believe the "Templar" reference was an accident ("Avenger" was originally going to be called "Templar", the list in ECS does not mention "Avenger", all equals "oops" to me), both Templar and Defiler could be upcoming for the Dark Sun CS.
Similarly, "Seeker" could be upcoming for the Dragonlance CS.
Once again, we are given clues that point in either direction. They're tricky, those WotC's.
My bet, however: Defiler in Dark Sun (which is the 2010 CS). No such thing as Templar. All the others in PHB3.
Don't count the Templar out so quickly. There was a thread that asphyxiated a while back on whether or not it was valid (Admittedly, I led the charge for it), and there were a lot of good points brought up for both sides in it.
But I doubt they'd put in the Seeker part if it wasn't from the same book as the Githzerai. After all, Deva make great Artificers, but that wasn't put in the PHB2.
With the confirmation of only 4 Psionic classes, and only 4 races, it's almost certain there will be only 6 classes total, due to the space required by the Hybrids.
Monk
Psion
Empath
"Defender"
Seeker
Unknown
Ok I know where the only 4 psionic classes thing comes from(offhand comment in the zerai article), but where did the only four races thing come from?-=Edit: Nm found it in the opening paragraph on the zerai article. I'm very disapointed by this revelation.
=-
Same article, at the very beginning:
This month’s Player’s Handbook 3 debut content is the githzerai, one of four races to be featured in that book.
Pity.
Judging by this information, my guess is the Soulknife has been held off until PH4, along with another Psionic class to complement the Shadow classes.
Pity.
Or the soulknife is being melded into the Defender Role, or not being used at all, simply because it doesn't have enough flavor to seperate it from an energy-blade ranger.
With the confirmation of only 4 Psionic classes, and only 4 races, it's almost certain there will be only 6 classes total, due to the space required by the Hybrids.
If there's only 4 races and 6 classes, I will be thoroughly disappointed. There better be 8 classes.
The Hybrid system, by PH3, is a class on its own. Simply providing the breakdown of the 18 pre-PH3 classes and the PH3 classes roughly gives us the same page count as a full class. That said, I'd think there will be a seventh class at least, either a second Primal or Divine.
For the sake of argument, let's assume that A) there will be 6 PHB3 classes, and B) the Hybrid section will include the Swordmage and Artificer. I know there will be people whining about the Swordmage & Artificer being included, but since the Hybrid playtest includes the Swordmage, I feel it a safe assumption. That is a minimum of 24 classes.
Now, let's assume 2 - 4 pages for rules.
1 page for each class, or 24 pages.
Wild speculation, but let's say there will be at least 1 Hybrid specific PP, and 1 ED, each at 1 page.
That's roughly 26 definite, 30 possible pages. The PHB2 classes average 12 - 14 pages, plus 4 for PPs.
Therefore, it's definitely possible there will be 7 classes. However, it's extremely unlikely there will be 8, and I just don't see them doing 1 Divine 2 Primal, or 2 Divine 1 Primal. So for now I'm going to bet on 6.
Monk
Psion
Empath
"Defender"
Divine
Seeker
Templar
Primal
Hunter
Totemist
My guesses
The Hybrid system, by PH3, is a class on its own. Simply providing the breakdown of the 18 pre-PH3 classes and the PH3 classes roughly gives us the same page count as a full class. That said, I'd think there will be a seventh class at least, either a second Primal or Divine.
As I don't see every group using hybrid rules(mine as well. Our consensus is: $$$$ these rules.), and I'm sure WotC understands this as well, my money's on having 8 classes so that the people who by PHB3 don't feel ripped off if they're not using Prius classes.
As I don't see every group using hybrid rules(mine as well. Our consensus is: $$$$ these rules.), and I'm sure WotC understands this as well, my money's on having 8 classes so that the people who by PHB3 don't feel ripped off if they're not using Prius classes.
That's my feeling too. Unless they get a major overhaul somehow, the hybrid classes are still very unwieldy, and I know I (and many other players) would quickly trade them out of the PHB3 for 2 more classes, if the choice had to be made. So I hope it doesn't.
First, knowing that Monks would be Psionic, taking away the spot of something better (conceptually speaking).
Then, knowing that there would be Primal and Divine classes in it, again, taking room of other stuff (like more psionic classes).
Then the Wilden. Ok, I hate dwarves and having another Con/Wis race comes a good way but... I just can't understand that race.
Then hybrid. To me it looks like the designers are moving backwards with this one, as the concept of hybrid classes goes against the role thing (which I think is one of the best features of this edition, balancing every class inside its niche).
Then, minotaurs... and githzerai... and finally someone saying there'll be only 4 new races. Wow, I mean, just wow. Such terrible choices for races.
Finally, this whole speculation about less than 8 classes...
I was a very big fan of Psionics of older editions, but this might be the first crunch heavy book I'm considering not picking up for 4e.
I would be inclined to go with 5/1/1 at this point. I would really like there to be 8 classes as well, seeing the hybrid thing would be cool, but not something I would want a majority of the PHB to be dedicated too. Would have rather seen it in something more similar to an Unearthed Arcana style book. Being that is not the case I think we will see 7 classes, as they would/should do more then one ED, since there should be one for each Source combo, or at least a couple. Hybrid in general seems too generic for its own ED.
That being said I suspect the classes being something on the lines of:
Psionic:
Monk
Empath
Psion
Psychic Warrior (I really hope they keep the name, seems iconic for some reason)
Divine:
Seeker (Archivist/Priest type cloth leader)
Templar (Hoping it is the minotaur on the cover, Heavy Armored Striker)
Primal
Witch (second primal controller, lots of zone effects)
if they have 8 Totemist style defender that gains bonuses to stats with use of his dailies
Not exactly; Witchalock was in the April Fools article. Defiler was mentioned in the same article, which means it's not in fact confirmed; however, it's more than likely going to be covered, class or template or whatnot, in the Dark Sun Player's Guide, considering how important the Defilers were to that settting. Though, they could be reserved to be only NPCs, and being monsters in the Dark Sun Campaign Guide.
It's also important to note that the Witchalock article was written by Penny Arcade, and not WotC. Jerry is a very long time D&D fan, so it doesn't surprise me he'd name drop some old school references.
Monk (including Soulknife as a PP)
Psion
Empath (leader)
Prodigal (defender, uses psionics to read his enemies every move. Opporunity action class features?)
Divine:
Templar (heavy armor striker, crusader architype)
Primal:
Seeker (Shinto priest archer defender)
Hybrid rules
-fighter
-rogue
-ranger
-warlord
-cleric
-avenger
-paladin
-Invoker
-artificer
-bard
-sorcerer
-swordmage
-warlock
-wizard
-barbarian
-druid
-shaman
-warden
-templar
-seeker
-monk
-psion
-empath
-prodigal
Has it been said somewhere that there will only be 4 Psionic classes in the book?
Yes, it was mentioned in the Gith article yestereday.
Psionic, Primal and Divine Heroes
Contents
INTRODUCTION
The Psionic Power Source
Psionic Powers are called Disciplines
1: CHARACTER RACES
Githzerai
Illumian
Minotaur
Wildren
Racial Paragon Paths
2: CHARACTER CLASSES
Crusader – Divine striker
Empath – Psionic leader
Monk – Psionic striker
Psion – Psionic controller
Saint – Divine leader
Seeker – Primal Defender
Warmind – Psionic defender
Witch – Primal controller
3: CHARACTER OPTIONS
Hybrid Classes
Feats
Heroic Tier Feats
Paragon Tier Feats
Epic Tier Feats
Multiclass Feats
Bloodline Feats
Adventuring Gear
Magic Items
Armor
Weapons
Rods
Staffs
Tomes
Wands
Wondrous Items
Rituals
Variant Ritual Books
Ritual Descriptions
APPENDIX: RULE UPDATES
GLOSSARY
INDEX
Bel
The Crusader archetype has been adequately filled by the Avenger, and if you can't use that, Paladin works quite well too.
Wilden, not Wildren.
Little to no evidence for Illumians, as much as I would like them. Maenads may be in it, due to the picture, but that's speculations on what that picture is...
Witch is Warlock. They're the same thing. We don't need a class that requires Alchemy (aka Potions Master) to be a Primal Class, or any class, either.
Warmind is actually the best name I've heard in a long time for the Psionic Defender. I'm liking that.
Races..
Minotaur
Githzeria
Wilden
Dromite
(really, only four races... )
Classes..
Psi
Psion
Monk
Empath
Soulblade (absorbing the Physic Warrior)
Divine
Templar
Saint
Primal
Hunter (I think this may have a different name)
Animalist (sorry, but the totem mechanics from the last edition does not need to be revisited)
The Crusader archetype has been adequately filled by the Avenger, and if you can't use that, Paladin works quite well too.
I agree with everything else you said (the witch might still work, but it might be difficult to differentiate hexes from curses), except for this. If you honestly think the Avenger is a crusader, you need to either gain a better understanding of the word or of the class. Avengers are Witch Hunters, not Crusaders. Paladins can fill the crusader slot, but as much as a cleric can fill the paladin's slot. Which is to say, kinda, but not really.
Witch is Warlock. They're the same thing. We don't need a class that requires Alchemy (aka Potions Master) to be a Primal Class, or any class, either.
Warmind is actually the best name I've heard in a long time for the Psionic Defender. I'm liking that.
While I agree with your last point, Witch and Warlock are far from the "same thing". Think about it in terms of established characters. Do you think that Faust and Granny Weatherwax have similiar sources for their abilities, or similar abilities for that matter? There's plenty of thematic room for a Witch-and it needn't be just a potions master (although giving them Brew potion as a free ritual would be a nice touch). Think of all of the great mythological "Witches" from folklore and popular fiction. I know I'd definitely like to play a class with some of the abilities of the titular character from Wicked or a character like Weatherwax.
I agree with everything else you said (the witch might still work, but it might be difficult to differentiate hexes from curses), except for this. If you honestly think the Avenger is a crusader, you need to either gain a better understanding of the word or of the class. Avengers are Witch Hunters, not Crusaders. Paladins can fill the crusader slot, but as much as a cleric can fill the paladin's slot. Which is to say, kinda, but not really.
If we're talking real world here, Paladin is just a fancy name for a high fluting knight who did a favor to a king or lord (or paid them a lot of money), a crusader is any one who happened to march with the Pope's armies into Israel, and a Warlock and Witch weren't the same thing until the sitcom Bewitched.
In terms of class, I think the Paladin is a crusader, because a crusade is a cause, and a paladin is a 'warrior with a cause'.
Avenger to me seems more like the Islamic 'assassin' of the middle ages. Trained in hidden monastic societies to kill the enemies of allah, using sacred rites that were supposedly handed down from secret texts.
I do not see room for a Crusader, or a Templar, in that regard, if we're trying to keep them within real world terms.
Not that I care if they don't keep them within real world terms, I like more classes.
Speculated race(s): crystalline race (I'm expecting something completely new here)
Confirmed Classes: Psion, Monk
Speculated classes:
Empath - a psionic leader with aura effects and an emphasis on "feedback" abilities (damaging those that hurt you or your allies).
"Psychic Warrior" - psionic defender. Has a mark that is almost like light mind-control. Has the "super-jumps" and other provocative elements from the 3.5 class.
Witch/Hexer - Primal Controller. This class is inspired mostly by the Witch "class" from the 3e DMG and (more recently) the Hexer NPC from the MMII. This class effectively melds Arcane and Primal traditions. It could be skilled at Alchemy. It doesn't coexist with or serve spirits like the Shaman or Druid, but rather controls, enslaves or summons them.
Runethane - Divine ?. A class themed around divine rune magic. Places runes and the like on the weapons and armor or himself and allies, and then activates them during the fight. I'm thinking this would be a Leader class.
For the sake of argument, let's assume that A) there will be 6 PHB3 classes, and B) the Hybrid section will include the Swordmage and Artificer. I know there will be people whining about the Swordmage & Artificer being included, but since the Hybrid playtest includes the Swordmage, I feel it a safe assumption. That is a minimum of 24 classes.
Now, let's assume 2 - 4 pages for rules.
1 page for each class, or 24 pages.
Wild speculation, but let's say there will be at least 1 Hybrid specific PP, and 1 ED, each at 1 page.
That's roughly 26 definite, 30 possible pages. The PHB2 classes average 12 - 14 pages, plus 4 for PPs.
Therefore, it's definitely possible there will be 7 classes. However, it's extremely unlikely there will be 8, and I just don't see them doing 1 Divine 2 Primal, or 2 Divine 1 Primal. So for now I'm going to bet on 6.
Your page maths are all Shiny and nice but you're assuming an awful lot.2-4 pages for rules on what?
The PHB 2 also had rituals, racial paragon paths, new feats (including racial feats) and lots on backgrounds.
13 pages of racial PP's, of which we'll only need 4 for this book
6 pages on backgrounds, 4 of which were Racial with 3-4 per page
That's 10 pages of space that won't be used in the same way as before.
We can assume pages for Rituals, new Items, new feats and Epic Destinies will be similar but smaller page counts.
So there's a few pages going spare, and less need for other things like rules revisions or glosseries, etc.
I think 7 is a good number for classes for this PHB, but there may be space for an 8th.
The Wu Jen write-up in Complete Arcane says they are spellcasters that command the elements, spirit forces, and the powers of nature... so it's quite easy to think they could be re-purposed into another Primal controller... one that is purely ranged, unlike the druid.
By the same token, Shugenja are listed in Complete Divine as a divine spellcaster that attunes himself to the primal energies around him and focusing the energy to produce magical effects. They are also particularly drawn to investigate disturbances in the natural harmony of the four classical elements, as well as priests who teach the rituals of piety, venerate the memory of long-departed ancestors and measure the passage of time. So this class too could easily be reworked to fit into the Primal or Divine source as perhaps a ranged striker (since both of those two sources currently only have melee strikers represented).
... The Wu Jen ... The Shugenja ...
Or they could, you know, make an appearance in the PH4 under the Elemental Power source.
Or they could, you know, make an appearance in the PH4 under the Elemental Power source.
Seconded. And with different names; those names suck for 4e. Even if they're in the PHB3, I can almost guarantee you they'll have different names.
That or at least for it to be a specific build of either the monk or defender.
I'm no longer expecting Soulknife as a separate class. But I do semi-expect, and definitely hope for, the Soulknife to appear as a pseudo class designed like the Spellscar. That way you get the variety of powers and such over multiple levels, without worrying about things like how one build will be different from another.
That or at least for it to be a specific build of either the monk or defender.
I envision it as the second build for the Monk and I'm not big on spellscars.
Bel
Judging by this information, my guess is the Soulknife has been held off until PH4, along with another Psionic class to complement the Shadow classes.
Pity.
Or it might be a monk paragon path. It has occurred to me that if you really wanted to play a soulknife, a reskinned monk might do the trick.
I envision it as the second build for the Monk and I'm not big on spellscars.
Bel
Soulknife will be it's own class, if not in the PHB3, then it'll be in PHB4.
And I'm 90% sure the second build for Monks, the Strength-based one will be of the Monastic Tradition of the "Iron Fist" or "Iron Hand" and it will represent "hard" styles of martial arts, since the "Centered Breath" tradition represents the more "meditative" or "soft" styles of martial arts.
Soulknife will be it's own class, if not in the PHB3, then it'll be in PHB4.
And I'm 90% sure the second build for Monks, the Strength-based one will be of the Monastic Tradition of the "Iron Fist" or "Iron Hand" and it will represent "hard" styles of martial arts, since the "Centered Breath" tradition represents the more "meditative" or "soft" styles of martial arts.
How would you differentiate the two types of martial arts mechanically?
Bel
How would you differentiate the two types of martial arts mechanically?
Bel
Centered Breath is obviously a Controller-Secondary path.
"Iron Fist" would be either pure-striker or defender-secondary path.
Monk
Psion
Empath (Leader)
Warmind (I like that name too...)
-Divine-
Seeker (Perhaps a divine character who's searching for his or her path in life, or a formerly religious person who's lost their faith? Probably either a striker or a controller.)
???
-Primal-
Ranged Striker
Witch (leader/controller)
I think there will be 8 classes, but if there ARE only seven, they'll probably cut out the extra divine one. I doubt highly doubt there'll be only six.
Also, the people who are trying to do page math: you seem to be forgetting that the original PHB was 310 pages, while the PHB2 was only 223. Obviously WotC is free to add in another 87 pages if they need to fit both eight classes and hybrid rules (which, at most, would be about 30 pages), so there's really no logical reason to assume that they'd cut out a full class just for lack of space.
Also, the people who are trying to do page math: you seem to be forgetting that the original PHB was 310 pages, while the PHB2 was only 223. Obviously WotC is free to add in another 87 pages if they need to fit both eight classes and hybrid rules (which, at most, would be about 30 pages), so there's really no logical reason to assume that they'd cut out a full class just for lack of space.
We already know that PHB3 will be 224 pages like PHB2, so performing page math is completely valid in theory as they can't just "add more space".
Assume that the 224 page count is 100% exact.
5 races - 2 pages each - 10 pages
5 racial paragon paths - 1 page each - 5 pages
8 classes w/pp's - avg 17 pages ea - 136 pages
Hybrid rules - 26 classes plus explanatory pages - 30 pages
Feats for new classes/races - 12 pages
Magic Items - 14 pages
Assume roughly 11 pages for ToC, Chapter intros, index, glossary, and misc empty space.
This would come to 218 pages, leaving six pages of leeway.
Sounds reasonable to me.
Lets do page math!
Assume that the 224 page count is 100% exact.
5 races - 2 pages each - 10 pages
5 racial paragon paths - 1 page each - 5 pages
8 classes w/pp's - avg 17 pages ea - 136 pages
Hybrid rules - 26 classes plus explanatory pages - 30 pages
Feats for new classes/races - 12 pages
Magic Items - 14 pages
Assume roughly 11 pages for ToC, Chapter intros, index, glossary, and misc empty space.
This would come to 218 pages, leaving six pages of leeway.
Sounds reasonable to me.
Actually it is 4 races, so that gives you 3 more pages based on your assumptions. Anyways lets look and see how my version of the math turns out!
Pre chapter stuff- 1 page title, 1 page credits, 1 page ToC, 1 page intro, and 1 page on the psionic power source(5 total)
Chapter 1(Races)- 2 pages chapter picture/summary, 8 pages races, 4 pages racial PP(14 total)
Chapter 2(Classes)- 2 pages chapter picture/summary, 17*x pages(where x is the number of classes), x + 22 Hybrid Classes, 6 pages ED(18*x+30 pages total)
Chapter 3(Character Options)- 2 pages chapter picture/summary, 2 pages background, 12 pages feats, 14 pages magic items, 4 pages rituals(34 total)
Glossary/Index- 1 page
Total= 84 +18*x
So with this set of assumptions, we end up with 7 easily fitting in with 14 pages left over. So assuming they don't add any appendixes, I do think they could pull off 8. However they are going to have to get the average pages per class down to pull it off as I cannot see them decreasing the number of pages for the other sections and still having the new material "well supported".
Defiler was in an April fools article. Dont use it as a drop at a possible class. Not that it still could not end up being one, but still.
Jarate was also in a certain games april fools article..
...and now look at it. They actually did put it into the game. Now THATS an april fools joke.
Monk - Psionic Striker
Dexterity, Strength, Wisdom
(Unarmed attack combatant)
Psion - Psionic Controller
Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma
(Psionic enchanter, focuses on telepathy and psychokinesis)
Empath - Psionic Leader
Charisma, Wisdom, Constitution
(Psionic prophet and healer, focuses on clairvoyance and manipulation of emotions)
Warmind - Psionic Defender
Strength, Wisdom, Charisma
(Psionic warrior, focuses on precognition and Jedi-like powers)
Seeker - Primal Striker
Dexterity, Constitution, Wisdom
(Savage, scout-like warrior who seeks to grow closer to the spirits by emulating the beasts)
Witch/Geomancer - Primal Controller
Constitution, Wisdom, Charisma
(Primal hexer who focuses on transforming the terrain and the shapes of others)
Mystic - Divine Leader
Wisdom, Charisma, Dexterity
(Unarmored priest who focuses on sacred archery and abjuration effects as well as healing)
Avatar - Divine Defender
Strength, Constitution, Charisma
(A divine defender with some elements of striker, gains power from a direct divine lineage)
Races: (Easily the biggest dissapointment)
Githzerai
Gnoll
Minotaur
Wilden
Classes:
Psionic:
Monk (Ya know)
Psion (Again)
Empath (A very likely choice for WoTC)
Warmind (I like this idea, and I'd probably use it. Just make sure it uses heavy armor)
Divine:
Crusader (Leader) - A cool idea, it would work kind of like a divine warlord. He has a divine aura which can change with a daily power, and it gives a constant bonus (attack rolls, defenses, speed, that sort). They would urge their party forward to discover new ground and claim it for his/her god.
We need a second divine defender here. I'm not sure what it will be. I saw the Avatar guess, but that can't be called Avatar because of Divine Power's avatars.
Primal:
Seeker (Striker) - Just a primal, bestial killer type. We're missing it really.
Totemist (Could be really anything but striker) - I could see a totemist leader, controller, or defender. Wizard's pick I guess.
So, with hope PHB4 will have Shadow, Psionic, and Martial heroes? Sounds good.
And by the way, for anyone saying that the runes on the minotaur's weapon signify a new class, it probably doesn't. Look through the pictures in your books. There are PLENTY of pictures with runes on them. They probably just mean it's a magic weapon.
And by the way, for anyone saying that the runes on the minotaur's weapon signify a new class, it probably doesn't. Look through the pictures in your books. There are PLENTY of pictures with runes on them. They probably just mean it's a magic weapon.
Except that they're also all over his armor, and his eyes are glowing with the same exact hue. Considering the fact that Item Sets aren't a selling point of the PHB3, I'd say that's a silly assumption. Especially since there's no glowy eye magic item slot.
Classes:
Psionic:
Monk (Ya know)
Psion (Again)
Empath (A very likely choice for WoTC)
Warmind (I like this idea, and I'd probably use it. Just make sure it uses heavy armor)
Divine:
Crusader (Leader) - A cool idea, it would work kind of like a divine warlord. He has a divine aura which can change with a daily power, and it gives a constant bonus (attack rolls, defenses, speed, that sort). They would urge their party forward to discover new ground and claim it for his/her god.
We need a second divine defender here. I'm not sure what it will be. I saw the Avatar guess, but that can't be called Avatar because of Divine Power's avatars.
Primal:
Seeker (Striker) - Just a primal, bestial killer type. We're missing it really.
Totemist (Could be really anything but striker) - I could see a totemist leader, controller, or defender. Wizard's pick I guess.
Someone in the Seeker thread mentioned that, though they fit perfectly, Druids were not included on the Githzerai list of perfect classes. They had perfect candidates from every power source (Avenger, Druid, Monk, Ranger) except arcane, and yet only excluded Primal. From this, I doubt that they'd put another Primal class there instead, and not include the druid. I can almost guarantee that the Seeker is not primal, nor psionic (that leaves Divine).
Totemist... I don't think so. In 4e, Totems are implements, nothing else, really. It'd be like having a 'Wandist' Arcane class, a 'Symbolist' Divine class, or a 'Weaponist' martial class. They'd need a lot more fluff and archetypal reinforcement than just "He uses magic totems to cast spells and stuff!".
I definitely agree with the idea of a Crusader divine class (I bet he's called the Templar, though), but I reckon it'd be a striker more than anything else. Divine could really use a heavy hitter, since the Avenger does Striker-ness through accuracy.
As for your Psionic line-up, I wholly agree.
For gnolls... I'd like them, but AV2 (which houses the gnoll picture that sparked speculation) is coming out months before PHB3. And there's the crystal-thing picture from another thread that I think is far more likely to be the last race (and a Con/Int race, at that).
For me, I see Divine as:
Templar (Striker): The crusader archetype, wears plate, carries a big stick infused with angry divine runes.
Seeker (Leader, probably; but then, it's hard to tell): I don't know. Leader is just a guess, and it's only divine in my mind because nothing else makes sense.
Primal:
A Primal Archer (striker, perhaps controller. Maybe even leader; defender's the only one that doesn't work): The whole shinto-archer deal. Spirits and arrows, great for elves, yada-yada-yada. Could be cool.
Some-primal-class (??): I DON'T KNOW.
Except that they're also all over his armor, and his eyes are glowing with the same exact hue. Considering the fact that Item Sets aren't a selling point of the PHB3, I'd say that's a silly assumption. Especially since there's no glowy eye magic item slot.
YET!
For gnolls... I'd like them, but AV2 (which houses the gnoll picture that sparked speculation) is coming out months before PHB3. And there's the crystal-thing picture from another thread that I think is far more likely to be the last race (and a Con/Int race, at that).
I was thinking it was a new race too. But now I think it's just the Psychic Sentinel: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/toon/legendevils
Superior implements were pushed back to PH3 due to space needs. Look forward to them there.
__________________
Peter Schaefer, D&D Developer
So it looks like new implements (and maybe new weapons?) will be taking up space in PHB3, which will cut into the 224 page count.
The whole shinto-archer deal.
Somebody explain this to me, I demand it.
Totemist... I don't think so. In 4e, Totems are implements, nothing else, really. It'd be like having a 'Wandist' Arcane class, a 'Symbolist' Divine class, or a 'Weaponist' martial class. They'd need a lot more fluff and archetypal reinforcement than just "He uses magic totems to cast spells and stuff!".
I'm going to have to disagree with your argument there (even if I'm not sure if they would release the totemist class). Think back to how it's used in Magic of Incarnum. Think about 3.5 totems for druids and rangers (from Eberron Campaign Setting, iirc). There's two different meanings for totems. First there's the little fetish that primal classes can use as implements. Meaning number two refers to a patron spirit - so the shaman's spirit companion could rightfully be called his/her totem. It's doable, as long as you understand that distinction. Now, maybe WotC would feel compelled to avoid the idea or come up with a new name because of that confusion you're suggesting, but I don't think that makes it a bad idea. Sorry if I'm ranting, but I get upset by potential confusion of word meaning limiting ideas. It's like how in the medical field they call something MRI when the original name was NMR, just to avoid panic over the term nuclear magnetic resonance, worrying that people will mistakingly assume it involves something radioactive (it doesn't). I don't think that potential for misinterpretation should discourage a choice. Enlighten, don't avoid the issue.
/end rant.
Anyway, I'm going to agree that the glowing minotaur probably also represents one of the new classes. Right from the beginning, I was thinking warmind. (I hope that turns out to be the new name for the psychic warrior). Also, wouldn't it be neat if one of the builds were the new soulknife? Somehow I doubt it, but it would be cool.
I'm going to have to disagree with your argument there (even if I'm not sure if they would release the totemist class). Think back to how it's used in Magic of Incarnum. Think about 3.5 totems for druids and rangers (from Eberron Campaign Setting, iirc). There's two different meanings for totems. First there's the little fetish that primal classes can use as implements. Meaning number two refers to a patron spirit - so the shaman's spirit companion could rightfully be called his/her totem. It's doable, as long as you understand that distinction. Now, maybe WotC would feel compelled to avoid the idea or come up with a new name because of that confusion you're suggesting, but I don't think that makes it a bad idea. Sorry if I'm ranting, but I get upset by potential confusion of word meaning limiting ideas. It's like how in the medical field they call something MRI when the original name was NMR, just to avoid panic over the term nuclear magnetic resonance, worrying that people will mistakingly assume it involves something radioactive (it doesn't). I don't think that potential for misinterpretation should discourage a choice. Enlighten, don't avoid the issue.
/end rant.
Anyway, I'm going to agree that the glowing minotaur probably also represents one of the new classes. Right from the beginning, I was thinking warmind. (I hope that turns out to be the new name for the psychic warrior). Also, wouldn't it be neat if one of the builds were the new soulknife? Somehow I doubt it, but it would be cool.
Well, firstly, I never really played that much 3.5. And what you're describing pretty much sounds like the Shaman but with a different name...
I was thinking it was a new race too. But now I think it's just the Psychic Sentinel: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/toon/legendevils
Except that the Psychic Sentinel doesn't use any weapons or armor or have clearly defined hair(there are many other differences too). That said, I think the two may be related, much like how a Genasi is related a Flamelasher, or a revanent is related to a zombie hulk.
Totemist... I don't think so. In 4e, Totems are implements, nothing else, really. It'd be like having a 'Wandist' Arcane class, a 'Symbolist' Divine class, or a 'Weaponist' martial class. They'd need a lot more fluff and archetypal reinforcement than just "He uses magic totems to cast spells and stuff!".
I wouldn't count on that, I remember there was all this stuff on how there wouldn't be a class called the Psion, because there already was a Power Source called Psionic...
But guess what? There's a class called the Psion!
So just because there's implements called Totems, doesn't necessarily mean there won't be a class called a totemist.
I think we need a Controller class that starts with "War". So then the War-Party is complete.
It's called the Warlock.
I wouldn't count on that, I remember there was all this stuff on how there wouldn't be a class called the Psion, because there already was a Power Source called Psionic...
But guess what? There's a class called the Psion!
So just because there's implements called Totems, doesn't necessarily mean there won't be a class called a totemist.
Not at all the same. A more accurate comparison would be the one I already made: the 'Wandist', 'Symbolist', and 'Weaponist'.
I think we need a Controller class that starts with "War". So then the War-Party is complete.
Warhulk. :D
Warhulk. :D
Wardude.
She binds the power of the Gorgon into a totemic mask, now she wields the power of the Gorgon.
Somebody explain this to me, I demand it.
What is to explain? The shinto religion has a focus on nature spirituality, and archery is an important part of many shinto rituals.
Also archery is rather underrepresented, with few classes having significant ranged weapon powers. There's the whole archery ranger build, of course, as well as prescient bards, and also... uh... well rogues can use crossbows.
It would be nice to have a few more classes that make effective use of bows.
I think we need a Controller class that starts with "War". So then the War-Party is complete.
I vote for Warzard
Orrrr Warvoker
I was thinking the Totemist would come back as a Elemental class with some Binder thrown in, or at least called Binder; binding elemental creatures into special equipment.
...
She binds the power of the Gorgon into a totemic mask, now she wields the power of the Gorgon.
I'm hoping for the return of the totemist, but both the name and the theme of using the powers of different beasts pretty much scream primal to me.
Psionic
Psion
Monk
Warmind
Empath
Divine
Templar (heavy armor striker)
Seeker (cloth leader)
Primal
Stalker (light armor archer striker with forms) However, let it be known I have an issue with this concept. That being that it stands to reason that the primal archer class ought to be able to do everything the ranger can do, but better. Thus, I question it's validity. Perhaps it will be something else.
Witch (cloth controller leader) Basically, this is how I worked it out.
Class: Primary-Secondary roles
Warden: Defender-Leader
Shaman: Leader-Defender
Barbarian: Striker-Defender
Druid: Controller-Striker
So, I figured there was a control underrepresentation.
Witch: Controller-Leader.
Now, there are two controller reps, three defender reps, two striker reps, and three leader reps, that leaves the Stalker: Striker-Controller
I'm guessing we'll see soul knife as a build or PP for the monk. Otherwise, I'll compile the ideas I think are likely (I say compile, because other people already said them before me.
Psionic
Psion
Monk
Warmind
Empath
Divine
Templar (heavy armor striker)
Seeker (cloth leader)
Primal
Stalker (light armor archer striker with forms) However, let it be known I have an issue with this concept. That being that it stands to reason that the primal archer class ought to be able to do everything the ranger can do, but better. Thus, I question it's validity. Perhaps it will be something else.
Witch (cloth controller leader) Basically, this is how I worked it out.
Class: Primary-Secondary roles
Warden: Defender-Leader
Shaman: Leader-Defender
Barbarian: Striker-Defender
Druid: Controller-Striker
So, I figured there was a control underrepresentation.
Witch: Controller-Leader.
Now, there are two controller reps, three defender reps, two striker reps, and three leader reps, that leaves the Stalker: Striker-Controller
Well, it's generally considered (because of powers, and because it says it in the PHB2) that the Warden is sub-controller. I can't really see how he'd be a leader, with few support powers.
As for the stalker, I woud see it as being more about bindings and magical statuses than massive flurries of arrows and pinpoint shots. Stalker wouldn't get Spitting Cobra Stance or Prime Shot/Called Shot, but it WOULD get ranged immobilizes vs Will and AOE Dazes. This, in my mind, would put it closer to Warlock style "hard control striking" than the Ranger or Barbarian's pure DPR.
I could even see a primal archer being a pure controller; it's unlikely, though.
I hope they don't make it like the warlock. It's the least focused class of any of them, and it would be thoroughly frustrating to get another "kinda something" class.
Well, it's generally considered (because of powers, and because it says it in the PHB2) that the Warden is sub-controller. I can't really see how he'd be a leader, with few support powers.
I suppose that's what I get for doing it without my books infront of me.
And that also screws the whole pooch.
W: D-C
D: C-S
B: S-D
S: L-D
Sooooo.......... 2 Cs 2Ss 3Ds and 1L. Make the Witch a Leader-Controller and the Stalker a Striker-Leader? That's a little hard to envision. Maybe the Stalker could be a Striker-Controller and the Witch a pure Leader...
Yeeeeeeah that sounds far-fetched to me too.
Warrior: Martial Controller, you know you want it!
http://heavensgate-old.wikidot.com/brigand
This is a martial controller my roommate came up with, although it doesn't follow the typical 4e power progression. It could be made to do so however.
Pisses me off tghey're putting the hybrid rules in with all this psionics filth. Psionics should be it's own book that everyone can shove off into some dark corner, preferrably a trash can, and never play.
Psionics is not the same as it used to be dude, it's just a power source like Divine or Martial that really means squat. Psionic based classes do not get any special advantages or anything.
Class: Primary-Secondary roles
Warden: Defender-Controller/Striker
Shaman: Leader-Defender/Striker
Barbarian: Striker-Defender/Leader
Druid: Controller-Striker/Leader
They say that the Con Druid subs as a leader, but usually they have to work so hard at being a Controller that you don't really ever see it.
Pisses me off tghey're putting the hybrid rules in with all this psionics filth. Psionics should be it's own book that everyone can shove off into some dark corner, preferrably a trash can, and never play.
It pisses me off that they're putting the psionics in with this hybrid filth. They should just stick these hybrid options in some dark corner of dragon instead of wasting valuable space in a PHB that should be dedicated to more classes or races.
I'm guessing 4th race is going to be that crystaline character...and that it is a revamped Elan.
I feel like I’m going to waste money on this one, for the pages on the hybrid, but I’m sure the rest will make up for it.
Psionics is not the same as it used to be dude, it's just a power source like Divine or Martial that really means squat. Psionic based classes do not get any special advantages or anything.
Ignore him, you'll save more brain cells ...
I’m not planning on using the Hybrid rules unless a player begs me to. The multiclass is ok, and in my mind not even necessary in this edition. Now we’ll have hybrids AND multiclass? No thanks.
Here here!
The margin of error in making a character will, at least, double with the addition of hybrids. One of my biggest annoyances in 3E was that I needed to sit with players and help them make good choices in character creation. 4E had, by and large, done away with that by presenting all builds in a more balanced way. Now, to keep that freedom, I have to ban a whole sub-section of rules? That's just sad.
In short, PH3 will have to fix a TON of things with hybrids and make EVERY combination balanced (or create a mechanic that would be obvious to new players that will discourage unbalanced builds) in order for me to not ban it in my games outright. I have too much to do as a DM without ensuring that my new players are making characters that will actually contribute.
Well. There it is.
Sincerely,
Lord Dreadman
It's possible that either Divine or Primal will only get one new class in the PHB3, which one do you think it is?
I'd personally say it's Divine since to me that seems to be well covered, I can't see any more than 5 divine classes ever, and it helps that they have domains which helps vary them.
Personally I think they will go with the standard 4/2/2 and here are the classes;
Empath – Psionic leader
Monk – Psionic striker
Psion – Psionic controller
Seeker – Divine Striker
Stalker – Primal striker
Templar – Divine Defender
Warmind – Psionic defender
Witch – Primal controller
However if they do go with 4/1/1, then the two I'd get rid of are;
Witch – Primal controller
Templar – Divine Defender
Bel
PS - Added Seeker, he was out seeking.
We know that one of the classes will be called the Seeker. We don't know what power source or role, only that it is a favored class for the Githzeri.
Between Hybrid rules and now the Skill powers ... I'm pretty sure we're only going to see six new classes with PH3. So, 4 Psionic classes and 1 Primal, 1 Divine. Consider the Seeker a Divine, and here's the lineup:
Psion: Psionic Controller
Monk: Psionic Striker
Empath: Psionic Leader
PsyWarrior (Not sure of name): Psionic Defender
Seeker: Divine ...?
....: Primal ....?
Psion: Psionic Controller
Monk: Psionic Striker
Empath: Psionic Leader
PsyWarrior (Not sure of name): Psionic Defender
Seeker: Divine ...?
....: Primal ....?
This one seems the most likely possibility.
It's kinda obvious that the 4th psionic class is gonna be the Psychic Warrior, which fits in the Defender role, just with a better name (Warmind sounds cool). The Empath Leader is just another logical choice.
It's very, very likely (because of the amount of content that has to be in the book, and also after seeing how most of the options listed in this thread are just repetitions of existant classes or class builds) that there's gonna be just one Divine class and one Primordial class.
I, too, believe that the Seeker is going to be a Divine class, just because of the "flavour" of the name (and how it's been used in Dragonlance and "some other books"). Some kind of "cloth" mystic Leader, maybe... but that too looks too similar to the new Cleric build from Divine Power. Maybe a Crusader/Templar type... but that's unlikely too, since the more "striker oriented" Paladin builds are already mildly trespassing in the Avenger's concept and gameplay, without the need of creating a third similar class. If I had to guess, I'd say the new Divine class (probably called Seeker) is a ranged striker, which is something the Divine power source is missing.
As for the Primal class, I really believe it's gonna be a "light", agile, feral melee striker. Someone that moves like a Rogue or a Monk, with a similar arsenal of weapons (nothing too big to carry around), but doesn't use sneaky tactics nor refined techniques... just Barbarian-like rage.
PS: I'm disappointed with the absence of a Martial Controller... not only for the obvious reason that leaving out just one single combination is wrong, but also because it would be very fun to play and a big innovation (in the same manner the Warlord is). It could be based on using "tripping" techniques and weapons (polearms, but also nets, bolas, whips, etc...). Or, alternatively, it could simply be the opposite of the Warlord. Where the Warlord is "some soldier" who boosts your morale, the Controller guy could be "some soldier" who lowers the enemies' morale (by scaring them and such...) and makes them less effective.
PPS: Is the Wilden confirmed? That means there's only one free spot. Aaaaaw, I'm afraid my beloved Goblin won't make the cut, despite being one of the most obvious choices for a "psionic power source themed" handbook (since the Blue in the very first 3.0 Psionic Handbook).
By the by, has WotC ever said uncatagorically that PH3 will have 8 classes (as normal)? I ask because with Skill Powers, Hybrid Rules, and the like, we're looking at a lot of new material. I know it would easily fit into the first PH, but the second was certainly smaller. With this trend, should we expect PHs to continue to shrink? I mean, we're down to just four races, why would classes be exempt from this sort of attitude?
I honestly hope this isn't true, but I am worried. I really don't need angry shouts at this. I'm not trying to start a rumor or complain, I just want to ease my own doubts.
Thanks!
Lord Dreadman
By the by, has WotC ever said uncatagorically that PH3 will have 8 classes (as normal)? I ask because with Skill Powers, Hybrid Rules, and the like, we're looking at a lot of new material. I know it would easily fit into the first PH, but the second was certainly smaller. With this trend, should we expect PHs to continue to shrink? I mean, we're down to just four races, why would classes be exempt from this sort of attitude?
I honestly hope this isn't true, but I am worried. I really don't need angry shouts at this. I'm not trying to start a rumor or complain, I just want to ease my own doubts.
Thanks!
Lord Dreadman
Nope nothing from them on class numbers beyond the fact that we know that there are 4 psionic classes(I forgot if that is a min or an exact value) and that divine and primal are mentioned on the cover(so we can assume at least one from each). So at best we can currently only confirm that there will be 6 classes at least.
Seeker is a fact?
If the Seeker class suits especially the flavor of the Githzerai, I hope its key abilities are Dex-Wis. My (wild) speculation is ...
The Seeker is a Psionic class, emphasizing the Seer-Prophet-Clairvoyant flavor. Who knows, perhaps its a Dex Defender? That could be cool. The Monk is a Striker, the Empath a Leader, and the Psion a Controller.
The Psionic power source has awesome potential for Defender stickiness.
*sigh* One more time. The article that inadventantly told us about the Seeker class also told us that Githzerai are only really good at one Psionic class, the Monk. Wisdom is a secondary stat for all Psionic classes but, according to the article, Githzerai will need to get their primary stat in Psionic classes "the hard way."
Since Seeker is listed among the Githzerai's "favored classes," this definately leaves out the idea of a Dex based Psionic defender and, almost certainly, means that the Seeker is not Psionic. There are still a few die-hards, but most people agree that logic supports this theory.
To be clear, I'm not angry that you missed it. I'm just begrudging the duty to get you up to speed. No hard feelings!
Sincerely,
Lord Dreadman
Well, I did say it was "(wild) speculation". 
I guess, the Githzerai just isnt a Psionic-style race.
But, it would be awkward for the PH3 to publish Psionic classes, like Psion, without publishing any races that are supposed to be good at them.
If the Githzerai isnt a Psionic-style race, will there one? Maybe even the Elan is waiting in the wings, who seems to be missing-in-action?
The Deva would make a great Telekin Psion, but is a Divine-style race.
It was mentioned in the same article that, not only does WotC consider the 'zeri to be a psionic race, it will be the ONLY race they consider psionic in PH3.
Maybe theyr waiting to introduce the Elan later, which actually helps integrate the Psionic power source into future Player Handbooks?
Is Psionic getting enough love?
Why are there no Psionic races with mental racial abilities? (So far, only Kalashtar is Psi-style with mental Wis-Cha, but is Noncore.) No Psionic Int races? Really?
Why does it have to be the Psionic power source that uses nonstandard power systems that marginalize it from the rest of D&D?
Why does the Psionic Striker deal insufficient damage and die trying?
Why cant the 'Telepath Psion' do telepathy well?
Why cant the 'Telekinetic Psion' fly well? (Psion gets flight Epic, where Wizard gets it in Paragon.)
If the Psionic Leader sucks at healing, Il be disappointed.
Why are there so many ways to be immune to mental effects, thus immune to entire Psionic classes at all levels and tiers?
In any case, if officaldom cant supply enough support for Psionics, at this time, we can make up our own collectively-agreed-on Psionic races and classes on the new Wizards Wiki.
Regarding the Psionic power source, I just read the Wizards novel, Agents Of Artifice. It is an enjoyable read. In its D&D-esque setting (namely Magic: The Gathering), Psionic-style magic fits in seemlessly among the other themes of magic. (In M:TG, it happens to be 'Blue' magic.)
Psionic magic emphasizes Telepathy-Illusion-Charm with Psychic damage, Telekinesis-Flight with Force damage (maybe with Disintegration behaving like Acid damage), Light-Energy-Force-Manipulation-Manifesting-Virtual-Object, Space-Time-Distortion-Teleportation-Time-Control, and Scrying-Prediction-Intuition. These are a normal things to do in the repertoire of magic. The Psionic power source is where players should go to do these things well.
Githzerai are gonna be brutal for those who want to play Rogues with a range build because you can almost ditch Str and Int to give your self a decent con bonus charisma is like your fourth most important stat which provides very little use aside from Intimidate. This leaves Wisdom and Dex these two skills make up the bulk of what a ranged Rogue needs to be a real threat on the battle field.
It was mentioned in the same article that, not only does WotC consider the 'zeri to be a psionic race, it will be the ONLY race they consider psionic in PH3.
Check your sources. It does not say ONLY. It says MOST. There is a very large difference between the two. Additionally the quote isn't even in reference to PHB3 but about the feel of the sum total of all races(meaning part of what they are saying is that the Zeri feel more psionic than the Kalashtar). That does not preclude the existence of another psionic race in PHB3.
Ah. A small but important semantic difference. I include Thri-Kreen in the possible PH3 race list for eactly that reason, though- it doesn't need to be psionic, whatever it's history, to be what it is.
I feel the Eladrin racial abilities should be as follows ...
Eladrin racial ability scores: +2 to a choice of two out of the following three ability scores: Dex, Int, and Cha.
Charisma is central to official Eladrin flavor. Moreover, the Eladrin in the Monster Manuals make Charisma their highest ability score. (And they actually dump Intelligence making it their lowest ability score!)
The choice of which abilities to pick, allows the Eladrin to be Dex-Int Wand Wizards (corresponding to the player race), Dex-Cha Wild Sorcerers and Storm Sorcerers (corresponding to Ghaele, Bralani, and Coure Eladrin), and Int-Cha Illusionist Wizards, Cunning Bards, and Fey Warlocks (corresponding to Tulani and Firre Eladrin).
With regard to Psionic, the choice of Int-Cha makes the Eladrin a mental race that is particularly good at the Telepath Psion, using this 'ancient magic' to enchant creatures.
Why are there no Psionic races with mental racial abilities? (So far, only Kalashtar is Psi-style with mental Wis-Cha, but is Noncore.) No Psionic Int races? Really?
Kalashtar are just as core as Githzerai or Elves.
It was mentioned in the same article that, not only does WotC consider the 'zeri to be a psionic race, it will be the ONLY race they consider psionic in PH3.
Check your sources. It does not say ONLY. It says MOST. There is a very large difference between the two. Additionally the quote isn't even in reference to PHB3 but about the feel of the sum total of all races(meaning part of what they are saying is that the Zeri feel more psionic than the Kalashtar). That does not preclude the existence of another psionic race in PHB3.
I'm pretty sure the quote was referring only to the PH3 races. There is not a chance in hell they actually believe the Githzerai is more psionic than a race that has at-will telepathy.
I'm pretty sure the quote was referring only to the PH3 races. There is not a chance in hell they actually believe the Githzerai is more psionic than a race that has at-will telepathy.
Oh for....
I expect many players to experiment with other psionic classes, because the githzerai will feel like the most "psionic" race available.
Note that it does not say the most psionic race in the PHB3. It says the most psionic race available. They are indeed saying that the zerai feel more psionic than a race that has at will telepathy.
Celtic: Kalashtar are just as core as Githzerai or Elves.
Haldrik: WotC uses the word 'Core' in different ways.
See www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/d...
The WotC Product Releases uses the term 'D&D Core' 'brand' to mean strictly the Core Points-Of-Light setting, in which case the Eberron, Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, etc. arent 'Core'.
Conflictively, the Product Releases also uses the term 'Core Game Product' 'type' to mean strictly the PH1, DMG1, and MM1, in which case the PH2 is Noncore and is an 'Accessory' 'type'.
Elsewhere, developers have made statements to the effect everything in Dragon is 'Core', meaning something like official and usable in tournament play.
I was referring to the first sense of Core, in which case Kalashtar are Noncore.
I've been thinking about it, and I'd like to say that, while Warmind sounds cool, I think a much better name is Sentinel.
That is all.
I've been thinking about it, and I'd like to say that, while Warmind sounds cool, I think a much better name is Sentinel.
That is all.
Yes plz
Note that it does not say the most psionic race in the PHB3. It says the most psionic race available. They are indeed saying that the zerai feel more psionic than a race that has at will telepathy.
No, it implies the PHB3. The most psionic race available in the PHB3. They are not including the Kalashtar. If they were, they would not have said the Gith were the most psionic.
Celtic: Kalashtar are just as core as Githzerai or Elves.
Haldrik: WotC uses the word 'Core' in different ways.
See www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/d...
The WotC Product Releases uses the term 'D&D Core' 'brand' to mean strictly the Core Points-Of-Light setting, in which case the Eberron, Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, etc. arent 'Core'.
Conflictively, the Product Releases also uses the term 'Core Game Product' 'type' to mean strictly the PH1, DMG1, and MM1, in which case the PH2 is Noncore and is an 'Accessory' 'type'.
Elsewhere, developers have made statements to the effect everything in Dragon is 'Core', meaning something like official and usable in tournament play.
I was referring to the first sense of Core, in which case Kalashtar are Noncore.
They use Core differently when labeling something. But when it comes to the material itself, everything is Core. Including Kalashtar. They are just as Core as the PHB races, in every sense of the word except one - their book says supplement. But supplements are still Core.
Any chance on getting a 4e soulknife? Always loved that class. Just a thought.
Any chance on getting a 4e soulknife? Always loved that class. Just a thought.
Yes. It's called a Monk with a Superior Unarmed Strike (Soulblade) feat.
Any chance on getting a 4e soulknife? Always loved that class. Just a thought.
Yes. It's called a Monk with a Superior Unarmed Strike (Soulblade) feat.
Yes that is one way to concept the class, but it there were differences. One that springs to mind is the souldknife's abilit to wear armor, as well as make ranged attaks with the knife. Also if they wanted to differintiate the soulknife and monk, they may be able to make a defender out of the soulknife rather than a striker.
Any chance on getting a 4e soulknife? Always loved that class. Just a thought.
Yes. It's called a Monk with a Superior Unarmed Strike (Soulblade) feat.
Yes that is one way to concept the class, but it there were differences. One that springs to mind is the souldknife's abilit to wear armor, as well as make ranged attaks with the knife. Also if they wanted to differintiate the soulknife and monk, they may be able to make a defender out of the soulknife rather than a striker.
Excuse me, make that any class with the Shadowblade paragon path. :p Up to leather armor as an assasin, the ability to throw the blades, and so forth.
Really for a warmind/sentinal, I see someone with Move or standard action sustain minor marks- having a static effect like the paladin mark, but stronger for having to burn actions to maintain it. (marked and prone, sustain minor, when sustained drop them prone- Range 10, or a higher level mark and daze encounter, sustain move)
PHB 3 Facts and Speculations (+ my guesses)
Races:
1) We already know 3 of 4.
Minotaur Str/Con
Wilden Con/Wis
Githzerai Dex/Wis
2) We already know that the githzerai is the race of most psionic feel.
The fourth race deduction: Int and Cha are not represented so far. The chances of including at least one of these two in the fourth race are really high, BUT a race with a build as Int/Wis or Int/Cha would be a great Psion AND automatically become a more “psionic race” than the githzerai, the race with most psionic feel developed (Stephen Schubert’s commentary found in Dragon 378 – incredible!).
The analyses of the other extreme say a lot as well: Wis and Con already appear in two races, diminishing the chances of appearing in the fourth race.
Let’s not forget that exist a high demand for a Int/Con build race. Why? 1- The only build that doesn’t has appeared in any playable race. 2- A lot of classes have Int/Con build. 3- The only build that can make a full balanced party covering all roles with swordmage, warlock, artificer, and wizard.
We need more clues for the fourth race, and maybe if we take a look at the classes facts and speculations we can take some conclusions.
Classes
a) Confirmed: Psion [controller](Int/Wis - Int/Cha); Monk [striker] (Dex/Str - Dex/Wis).
b) Only a total of four psionic classes. Probably all roles represented. The book hardly will have 8 classes, 6 or 7 are the best guesses, BUT will probably be 6
Why? Skill powers + Hybrid classes + Primal and divine classes > let’s be frank, it’s very hard to come up with two new classes for the divine or primal power.
c) Semi-confirmed: Seeker (Dex-Wis), could be any power source (hardly psionic).
d) Speculated: Empath [psionic leader], the chances of a Cha/Wis build are very high. Keith Baker said that Kalashtar make a perfect match for a psionic class but the name couldn’t appear in the EPG. We already know that is not the psion. Okay, could be the psi defender, but I think it’s not. I’ll explain this later.
e) We already know that Wis is a secondary stat of all the psionic classes + the primary stat of all psi classes except the monk make them hard choices for the githzerai.
Conclusions: The Psi defender and the Empath have only Str, Con and Cha as options for the primary stat. As mentioned before, the Empath is probably Cha primary and Wis secondary. The defender will be Str or Con as primary. I would say Con. Why? Con is of utmost importance for defenders, but never appeared as primary for any of them. I firmly believe that the psi defender is the best fit for a Con primary defender. Put Str and Wis as secondary stats and you already have two races in the book (Minotaur/Wilden) that make good psi defenders, and most importantly, don’t appear as more psionic than the githzerai. Think with me: Minotaurs need to excel in at least one class in this book, and its hard to believe that would be another Str-Pri>Con-Sec. The Minotaur in the front page is the psi defender or the new divine class.
--- Duergar good psi defenders --- think about it.
f) The new primal class (probably only one): One build we already know = Con/Wis. How? Wilden. Very obvious that this race would be a good fit with the only primal class appearing in the book. Role = Striker. Why? The con/wis build already appeared in the primal leader and controller. Another primal defender fighting for space with the Warden… No. Wisdom should be the primary stat, because a fifth wisdom secondary class in the book is too much. Open possibilities for good multiclasses that throw a striker spin in the shaman and druid.
g) The new divine class (probably only one): hard to imagine. Certainly not controller. If the Minotaur in the front page is divine (I personally think it’s the psionic defender) = striker. If the new class is a leader, only if a light armor wearing bow master AKA ki leader/Zen archer; if defender = FAIL. Great chances that the fourth race is good at it (Gith= Psy; Wilden=primal; fourth race=divine).
h) The Seeker class: It is one of the two classes above, divine or primal. Do you think that Dex and Wis will be ANOTHER striker? Wow! I don’t know. The only chance of a seeker striker is appearing as the primal class above. With Wisdom as primary and Con and Dex as secondary stats, but this would be identical to the druid and therefore difficult to happen. We need another Wis/Dex controller other than the druid? No. The Seeker is defender or leader. Defender? Only if it’s the surprising psi defender proving that the gith is really the most psionic race. Leader? The best guess as the new divine class (AKA ki leader/Zen archer).
MY CONCLUSIONS
CLASSES CONFIRMED
Psion (Psi controller)
Int primary / Wis and Cha as secondary stats.
Monk (Psi striker)
Dex primary / Str and Wis as secondary stats.
CLASSES SPECULATED
Runecaster/Enforcer/Psylock/Warmind (Psi Defender)
Con primary with Str and Wis as secondary stats.
Commentary: Minotaur and Wilden as perfect fits for this class. Will have an interesting and different marking mechanic based over power points. I firmly believe that this class will be exactly like this, I only don’t know the name for sure.
Empath (Psi leader)
Cha primary / Wis and Con as secondary stats.
Commentary: Int could appear as secondary instead of Con for a good multiclass with Psion. This way the fourth race would certainly be Wis/Cha, because Int/Cha would make it more psionic than the githzerai.
Seeker (Divine leader)
Wis primary / Dex and Cha as secondary stats.
Commentary: My most dubious guess. Maybe it’s the Ki leader that turned into divine, some sort of zen archer I guess. Not much to say.
Hunter/Predator/Totemist (Primal striker)
Wis primary / Str and Con as secondary stats.
Commentary: Wilden and Longtooth Shifter striker class of choice. They needed it.
THE FOURTH RACE
A completely new race that no one other then WotC developers can guess with precision, this includes: me, you, Santa Claus, the Devil, Chuck Norris, Jack Bauer, anyone.
Stat Composition Possibilities
Cha/Wis = good Seeker and Empath but with a more divine/neutral feel than psionic.
Cha/Con (only good Empath) a class other than the Empath would probably have a this build.
Con/Int can’t be discarded.
Bonus:
The PHB 4 WILL NOT EXIST. I repeat, the PHB 4 WILL NOT EXIST.
Assassin is the first of a list of DDi exclusive classes, which will include:
Hexblade: will come sooner than you expect. Believe me, will be the coolest defender in the game. Half-elves and changelings will be great Hexblades.
Necromancer: Int primary, Dex and Con as secondary stats. Eladrin, Shadar-kai will be great necromancer. Revenant will be good as well.
Elementalist/Sha’ir: The only elemental class. The multi-role class with two famous builds: Wu jen elementalist (Str/Int, aka genasi build), Shugenja elementalist (Str/Cha, aka dragonborn build). If 2011 campaign setting is oriental themed, this class will be there. If not, we will see it at the end of the next year. Strength primary! What? Don’t you believe me?
I predict a lot of things with precise success in 4e, like the bard, barbarian (with the Cha build), sorcerer, avenger, and races of the PHB 2 (except a third Con/Wis Shifter that strangely doesn’t appeared). I confess that the PHB 3 is a little harder to predict, but a lot more fun.
English is not my primary language. Sorry for any grammatical error.
*snip*
tl;dr if I ever saw it.
*snip*tl;dr if I ever saw it.
????
TLDR indeed, though I did read some of it, and it's all been said before and invalid.
For one thing there will be a PHB4, since not releasing a book with a bunch of classes will bring down WotC's profit margin, which is illogical for them.
Have they confirmed that there's less than eight classes in PHB3, or is that just conjecture based on the extra space hybrid classes will take up?
Based off the previews, we do know there's going to be at least six (three psionic classes with power points plus the monk, and at least one primal and divine class each).
Also, the PHB4 is likely to be in the works as well, with shadow, psionic, and martial classes being previewed there. Or, alternately, they feature shadow and elemental together, and put extra psionic/martial classes in DDi like the Assassin.
Have they confirmed that there's less than eight classes in PHB3, or is that just conjecture based on the extra space hybrid classes will take up?
Do you cont the Hybrid rules as a character class? Two character classes?
Seeker (Divine leader): Wis primary / Dex and Cha as secondary stats. Commentary: My most dubious guess. Maybe it’s the Ki leader that turned into divine, some sort of zen archer I guess. Not much to say.
Allow me to correct myself: The October calendar indicates that the Seeker will debut 10/06, few days before the primal power book, so this class is probably the fifth primal class. But don't invalidate my original guesses for the primal class in the PHB3, just change the name below.
Hunter/Predator/Totemist (Primal striker): Wis primary / Str and Con as secondary stats. Commentary: Wilden and Longtooth Shifter striker class of choice. They needed it.
I still believe that the new divine class will be the same as I imagined the Seeker but with another name. I'm very excited about the 10/06 Seeker debut! One part of me wants to be surprised.
Where's the October calendar? All I see is the September one.
EDIT: NM, I found it...
Allow me to correct myself: The October calendar indicates that the Seeker will debut 10/06, few days before the primal power book, so this class is probably the fifth primal class. But don't invalidate my original guesses for the primal class in the PHB3, just change the name below.
Actually, in no way shape or form does the Seeker coming out next week, just before Primal Power, confirm it as a Primal class. Primal Power is only for the PHB2 classes, period. That was confirmed months ago, and is confirmed in the product description.
No, the Seeker may be Primal. But if it is, it will not be in Primal Power.
Allow me to correct myself: The October calendar indicates that the Seeker will debut 10/06, few days before the primal power book, so this class is probably the fifth primal class. But don't invalidate my original guesses for the primal class in the PHB3, just change the name below.
I've seen some sorry excuses for 'evidence' on these forums, but this pretty much takes the cake.
Actually, in no way shape or form does the Seeker coming out next week, just before Primal Power, confirm it as a Primal class. Primal Power is only for the PHB2 classes, period. That was confirmed months ago, and is confirmed in the product description.No, the Seeker may be Primal. But if it is, it will not be in Primal Power.
I'm not saying that the seeker will be in the Primal power (gosh, you thinked that?). I just believe that October will be a thematic Primal month, which is enough to imagine that if there is two totally new classes (one primal and one divine), they wouldn't release the divine one in the "primal month". This would diverge attentions over the Primal power book. The fifth class being just ANOUNCED before the primal power it's like a marketing move (a good one if you ask me).
I've seen some sorry excuses for 'evidence' on these forums, but this pretty much takes the cake.
Thanks
I'm not saying that the seeker will be in the Primal power (gosh, you thinked that?). I just believe that October will be a thematic Primal month, which is enough to imagine that if there is two totally new classes (one primal and one divine), they wouldn't release the divine one in the "primal month". This would diverge attentions over the Primal power book. The fifth class being just ANOUNCED before the primal power it's like a marketing move (a good one if you ask me).
The error in your line of thinking is:
Vistani - Not really Primal.
Seeker - Unknown amount of Primalness
Raven Queen - Zero Primalness
CE: Barbarian - Primal to the Max.
CE: Wizard - Yes nothing says primal like people in robes with books or orbs flaunting themselves.
Character concepts - Vaguely Primal (as there is likely to be Some primal classes shown in it).
Bazaar - Again unknown Primalness.
So of the known articles, 1.2-3.2/6 will be Primal. Which doesn't make for a strong theme to me.
Allow me to correct myself: The October calendar indicates that the Seeker will debut 10/06, few days before the primal power book, so this class is probably the fifth primal class. But don't invalidate my original guesses for the primal class in the PHB3, just change the name below.
I've seen some sorry excuses for 'evidence' on these forums, but this pretty much takes the cake.
No how about this evidence, it's a Tuesday and 10 + 6 = 16 which when combined with the exchange rate of the Renminbi to the Euro cross-referenced with the temperature today, means it must therefore be Divine.
But seriously, though I don't see any evidence of a primal theme. Well it is for the month of October, and the only articles of October that lean towards any theme are the Vistani and the Raven Queen, and possibly the Abyssal Genasi. Scary or spoooky stuff is the theme as October 31 approaches.
Which means the Seeker will be part of a new dual power source attempt: X/Goth
Which means the Seeker will be part of a new dual power source attempt: X/Goth
Maybe there will be a new power source called Divonicmal.
well the thing is if you look at the schedule a certain way it may have a primal theme, mainly cause it has a distinct spooky, horror, halloween leaning what with the Ravenloft inspired vistani, quasi-demonic genasi, focus on the Raven Queen, it all screams primal cause originally halloween was all about appeasing the spirits ergo primal theme, of course there is always the exception, the wizard.
May be mis-remembering, but I was thinking at one of the GenCon sessions they were saying the Oct Bazaar o' Bizarre article would have new Dragonshard items. But maybe that was for November...
well the thing is if you look at the schedule a certain way it may have a primal theme, mainly cause it has a distinct spooky, horror, halloween leaning what with the Ravenloft inspired vistani, quasi-demonic genasi, focus on the Raven Queen, it all screams primal cause originally halloween was all about appeasing the spirits ergo primal theme, of course there is always the exception, the wizard.
Shadowfell = Shadow
Raven Queen = Shadow & Divine
Demons = Elemental
Not seeing the Primal theme there ....
What is it with people reading way, way, way, way, way, way, way too much into every move WOTC makes, perceiving practically every word in a blog, article, whatever to be a 'hint' at something?
sorry my english comp class is exacerbating my irrational desire to argue for no other reason than to argue. to reiterate I was merely stating that the point made is a valid one sorry if that was not clear
Allow me to correct myself: The October calendar indicates that the Seeker will debut 10/06, few days before the primal power book, so this class is probably the fifth primal class. But don't invalidate my original guesses for the primal class in the PHB3, just change the name below.
I was right in the end. The Seeker is surprisingly primal.
Now that we know for sure that the Seeker is primal, how does that change any further predictions for the class line-up?
The psionic line-up seems to be pretty obvious:
Monk (Psionic Striker)
Psion (Psionic Controller)
Empath (Psionic Leader)
Psychic Warrior/Warmind/Ardent? (Psionic Defender)
For primal and divine, we have as confirmed:
Seeker (Primal Controller)
New Divine Class (Divine Unknown)
There could be anywhere from six to eight new classes in the final lineup. We know there's at least six because three psionic classes will use power points, the monk and seeker are confirmed, and we'll be getting at least one new divine class. The combination of precedent and the length of PHB3 tells me we won't be getting more than eight.
Since the seeker is a controller, chances are that there won't be a new divine controller unless there's more than one divine class in the book. Likewise, if there's a second primal class in PHB3, it probably won't be another controller.
3: CHARACTER OPTIONS
Hybrid Classes
Feats
Heroic Tier Feats
Paragon Tier Feats
Epic Tier Feats
Multiclass Feats
Bloodline Feats
Adventuring Gear
Magic Items
Armor
Weapons
Rods
Staffs
Tomes
Wands
Wondrous Items
Rituals
Variant Ritual Books
Ritual Descriptions
Screw rituals! We have plenty of those already. We need more alchemical items!!
What this game needs is more class's that can turn into animals
Any class in the game can turn into an animal, at the cost of a single feat.
How about a ranged magic Divine striker. I'm thinking maybe something like the Exorcist. Either that, or like an anti-Paladin defender. Blackguard or Heretic, or something like that.
Where was it confirmed that one of the new classes would be Divine? Did I miss an announcement?
Where was it confirmed that one of the new classes would be Divine? Did I miss an announcement?
The cover of the book says "Psionic, Divine, and Primal Heroes".
D'oh! How'd I miss that?
I notice the minotaur on the cover of PH3 is wielding some big heavy weapon and has what appears to be metal armor. So I'm guessing that he is a divine class. One that can use big weapons and is probably keyed off of str and/or con (considering it is a minotaur).
Though I guess he could be the psionic defender.
I'm leaning on it being the Psionic Defender.
Who knows, though.
I hope there isn't another heavy armour, big weapon wielding Divine class. Especially if it's a defender. If there's another Divine Defender, the Shepherd idea (cloth and leather, sling, club, quarterstaff, staff and rod as implements) that was rolling around on another topic is more along the lines that I would like to see - a subtler, less knightly divine defender.
Until now, all Defenders have been some sort of Knight, when it comes down to it:
Fighter - Mundane Knight
Paladin - Holy Knight
Swordmage - Magic Knight
Warden - Nature Knight
How about some less knightly defenders, eh?
What exactly is your definition of a knight?
because a Defender is basically someone who fights to protect others from harm, which could loosely be the same definition of a knight by some.
How is a Swordmage a knight, "when it comes down do it" but somehow this Shepard is not?
"I don't dink dat worda means what you dink'ita means"
I know that Psychic Warriors in 3.5e did have heavy armour prof, but to me it never felt right that they did. I always saw them as the class Monks should have been back in 3e.
It fits my image of a "psionic defender" better if they wear light armour and are highly mobile. But then again they may be just like fighters, who can wear either heavy or light armour and still be good going either way depending on which build they take.
It would be awesome, actually, if the builds of the Psychic Warrior were also based to some degree on their gear. So the Wis-secondary precognitive expert is light and mobile for maximum evasion, while the metabolic mastery of Con prefers a tanking physique and maximum armor.
What I meant was that the person who came up with the Shepherd thought about a mostly implement wielding Defender, with light armour only and more moveability.
I guess when it comes down to it, Swordmage fits it with the other "Knightly" Defenders because of it's big sword.
Fighter - Mundane Knight
Paladin - Holy Knight
Swordmage - Jedi Knight
Warden - Nature Knight
Fixed. :p
I'm guessing that the monk will be the most "physical" of the Psionic classes, followed by the psionic defender class. In the case of the psychic warrior/warmind/whatever they decide to call the psionic defender, this will likely be represented by having a physical primary stat (either STR or CON) with INT and CHA as secondary stats. The INT build will probably be the more mobile, agile build (in a 'mind over matter' way), and the CHA build more of a secondary controller in nature, with a lot of conditions to impose on enemies.
For the empath/psionic leader, I'm guessing a Charisma primary, with Wisdom and Constitution (or Intelligence, if they're going with the 'all mental stat' theme) as secondary. An empath sounds like a character that would have a high charisma and a talent at social skills.
Fighter - Mundane Knight
Paladin - Holy Knight
Swordmage - Jedi Knight
Warden - Nature Knight
Fixed. :p
Jedi throw fire, cold, thunder, and teleport around? Who knew.
Fighter - Mundane Knight
Paladin - Holy Knight
Swordmage - Jedi Knight
Warden - Nature Knight
Fixed. :p
Jedi throw fire, cold, thunder, and teleport around? Who knew.
Its true, I've seen them do it, CRAZY STUFF MAN!
Swordmage - Jedi Knight
Jedi throw fire, cold, thunder, and teleport around? Who knew.
The awesome ones do. The rest? Not so much.
But they want to.
I think it's more the fact that the Jedi can summon their Light Sabres back to them with their Swordbond Class Feature, and can do all sorts of teleporty-like things with their keen intelligence and training.
I personally think Jedi Knight would have been better as a extrapolation on the Soulknife, turning the Mindblade into any sort of blade, but Swordmage is fun for me too.
I'd rather see a Psionic Defender now that ISN'T a Jedi Knight, because the Swordmage already is.
It would be awesome if Con was the key stat, rather than Strength. Constitution needs more love.
I think it's more the fact that the Jedi can summon their Light Sabres back to them with their Swordbond Class Feature, and can do all sorts of teleporty-like things with their keen intelligence and training.
I personally think Jedi Knight would have been better as a extrapolation on the Soulknife, turning the Mindblade into any sort of blade, but Swordmage is fun for me too.
I'd rather see a Psionic Defender now that ISN'T a Jedi Knight, because the Swordmage already is.
It would be awesome if Con was the key stat, rather than Strength. Constitution needs more love.
I want a Con/Int Psychic Defender that can long range mark, have a few ranged psychic attacks, but also be able to attack up close really well as well. IT WOULD BE AWESOME!
I think it's more the fact that the Jedi can summon their Light Sabres back to them with their Swordbond Class Feature, and can do all sorts of teleporty-like things with their keen intelligence and training.
I personally think Jedi Knight would have been better as a extrapolation on the Soulknife, turning the Mindblade into any sort of blade, but Swordmage is fun for me too.
I'd rather see a Psionic Defender now that ISN'T a Jedi Knight, because the Swordmage already is.
It would be awesome if Con was the key stat, rather than Strength. Constitution needs more love.
I really don't see the Swordmage as being remotely Jedi-esque, but as you wish.
Fighter (Martial) - Knight
Paladin (Divine) - Holy Knight
Swordmage (Arcane) - Eldritch Knight
Warden (Primal) - Green Knight
Dreadknight (Shadow) - Black Knight
Psywar (Psionic) - Jedi Knight
I prefer the name Sentinel, but a Psionic Defender is much appreciated, yes.
I think it's the only remotely good sounding name that's been proposed. Psywar? What is that?
Psywar is short for Pyschic/Psionic Warrior, frankly i like Sentinal more too, its a great name for a defender, and it doesn't have War in its name.
Marandahir: I prefer the name Sentinel, but a Psionic Defender is much appreciated, yes.
Huh. 'Sentinel' is an awesome name for a Psionic Defender.
Marandahir: I prefer the name Sentinel, but a Psionic Defender is much appreciated, yes.
Huh. 'Sentinel' is an awesome name for a Psionic Defender.
Thirded! (Possibly Fourthed!)
Just to say, not originally my idea. I just saw it floating around a couple months ago on a similar topic on what the other Psionic classes would be.
When I asked what a Psywar is, I meant it somewhat rhetorically: I realised what he meant as a Psychic Warrior and Psionic Defender, but the name really doesn't MEAN anything to me. It sounds like a meaningless combination of Psychic and War that sounds silly and doesn't invoke anything to me.
It's the sort of class name we're trying to avoid, a strange combination of words.
I don't mean to sound offensive, just that it's not the sort of name that would end up as a class. Sentinel has many more connotations to it, and is an actual word, and thus is preferable both thematically and by Occam's Razor (simplest answer is the most desirable one).
For a psychic defender I would prefer Bastion to Sentinel, but I could see either working.
I really don't see the Swordmage as being remotely Jedi-esque, but as you wish.
One of it's level 3 encounter powers is almost explicitly Force Choke. It's not entirely the same (A psionic class would work better), but there's clearly some ideas taken from Jedi influincing the class.
For a psychic defender I would prefer Bastion to Sentinel, but I could see either working.
I really don't see the Swordmage as being remotely Jedi-esque, but as you wish.
One of it's level 3 encounter powers is almost explicitly Force Choke. It's not entirely the same (A psionic class would work better), but there's clearly some ideas taken from Jedi influincing the class.
Not to mention numerous Force Lightning powers. Though there are also Force Ice, Force Fire, Force Acid, and Force Poison and such not powers too.
Not to mention numerous Force Lightning powers. Though there are also Force Ice, Force Fire, Force Acid, and Force Poison and such not powers too.
These things hurt my soul.
Oh, and don't forget Force Force!
Because somehow Force is also a damage type, despite the fact that it's not always used when there's no damage type but it's still a magical attack for some inexplicable reason...