MAKE KOBOLDS CORE O_O PUT THEM IN PHB3
I made a thread about this for making kobolds core in phb1, and then again for phb2 and I keep on being disappointed and sad. So here I am again making my case for the kobolds.
I might be wrong or I might be right, but at least on this forum it seems kobolds are the most loved non-phb race.
I don't know what else to say about them anymore, but if anything they really fit the primal theme well, since they have secondaries useable in EVERY primal class so far (they can be both kinds of druids too), so they are a shoe-in I think!
heck, send me an email about confirmation of them in the phb3 or not and I can continue or stop working on my "playing as: kobolds" article that I been doing on-and-off for a few months now. Just that info would mean so much to me.
I don't know how long I have to do this to make the demands of the little green reptile folks heard..
MAKE KOBOLDS CORE O_O PUT THEM IN PHB3
I made a thread about this for making kobolds core in phb1, and then again for phb2 and I keep on being disappointed and sad. So here I am again making my case for the kobolds.
I might be wrong or I might be right, but at least on this forum it seems kobolds are the most loved non-phb race.
I don't know what else to say about them anymore, but if anything they really fit the primal theme well, since they have secondaries useable in EVERY primal class so far (they can be both kinds of druids too), so they are a shoe-in I think!
heck, send me an email about confirmation of them in the phb3 or not and I can continue or stop working on my "playing as: kobolds" article that I been doing on-and-off for a few months now. Just that info would mean so much to me.
I wouldnt hold my breath. Your best bet would be a Dragon article. And I have to say it wouldnt be my favorite addition.
Warforged: Ebberon PG
Gnolls: (no confirmation)
Minotaurs: PHB 3 cover
Shadir-kai: Strongly linked to Shadow Power Source (likely PHB4 material)
As Insiders will be receving previews of PH3 material, we will be able to confirm whether or not Gnoll is included within the next few months, which will validate my theory.
Unfortunately, If it IS chronological, kobolds have already "missed the boat" for PH3 playtesting. Personally, I would expect them to be linked with the Elemental power source (draconic heritage and all that), which would be PH5 material... which means we can probably expect a "Playing Kobolds" article within the next 6-12 months.
Overall, Kobolds earn a meh rating from me. There are other races that could be put in as playable that would be just as good, if not better. Admittedly, Minotaur isn't one of them, and I'd gladly trade Mr. Bullman for a Little Blighter...
I still suspect we will see the Orc done here before long. That way all of the original Creation cards are null and void. It is always possible that Kobolds or some other race could become a creation card. I know Bladelings are the creation card currently.
You're referring to RPGA Player reward cards, right?
This thread is mostly about getting the Kobold some official feat support, not about being RPGA legal.
You're referring to RPGA Player reward cards, right?
This thread is mostly about getting the Kobold some official feat support, not about being RPGA legal.
Yes I am referring to those cards. But I am also stating that they we will likely see the Orc and probably Bladeling writeups in Dragon before we see Kobold. And I cant see any of the upcoming power sources or Settings that would warrant a Kobold as an inclusion in a PHB or CPG.
Everyone knows what a kobold is and they add a very fun and whimsical feeling into any party. They're also all around awesome and are the prime underdog monster in the game.
Who doesn't want to play the underdog, underestimated race?
Bring on the kobold I say!
Who cares about the orc?
People who enjoy Warcraft, Warhammer, Shadowrun, and Elder Scrolls, that also like DnD, and want to play their favorite race in DnD?
DnD Orcs are nothing like Orcs from those settings though... the Half-Orc is closer.
Eberron Orcs are. They don't have to be the only ones.
Plus the PHB needs a small race.
though somehow I think the tards making the books would rather choose goblins first, don't ask why, thats just what my gut is telling me.
Heck i hear kobolds were actually of some IMPORTANCE in eberron for 3.5, so if they made them playable in the eberron player's guide I would buy the guide just for that!
Either way I know that when races of the dragon came out, to me there was only 2 reasons people bought it: Becoming "half-dragon" through dragonborn before they naturally breeded in 4e, and kobold support! Even with kobolds still being a bit underpowered back then, they were fun!
each of the phb's so far as had one small race, I hope they keep that tradition and it ends up being my friendly neighborhood kobolds :D
though somehow I think the tards making the books would rather choose goblins first, don't ask why, thats just what my gut is telling me.
Heck i hear kobolds were actually of some IMPORTANCE in eberron for 3.5, so if they made them playable in the eberron player's guide I would buy the guide just for that!
Either way I know that when races of the dragon came out, to me there was only 2 reasons people bought it: Becoming "half-dragon" through dragonborn before they naturally breeded in 4e, and kobold support! Even with kobolds still being a bit underpowered back then, they were fun!
Actually, kobolds were one of the least important of the "humaniod" races from 3.5 in Eberron. They won't be in the EPG.
each of the phb's so far as had one small race, I hope they keep that tradition and it ends up being my friendly neighborhood kobolds :D
though somehow I think the tards making the books would rather choose goblins first, don't ask why, thats just what my gut is telling me.
Heck i hear kobolds were actually of some IMPORTANCE in eberron for 3.5, so if they made them playable in the eberron player's guide I would buy the guide just for that!
Either way I know that when races of the dragon came out, to me there was only 2 reasons people bought it: Becoming "half-dragon" through dragonborn before they naturally breeded in 4e, and kobold support! Even with kobolds still being a bit underpowered back then, they were fun!
Calling them "tards" won't help your case, you know. And the only reason small races were in PH1&2 is because of how important/beloved Halflings & Gnomes are. Nerdrage would have burned WotC to the ground if they weren't in.
You could try your hand at writting a Kobold article. Might get accepted!
i'm working on it! though if I find out it will be around in phb3 or somehow the EPG i'd stop working on that and instead start a "ecology of the kobold" article.
Kobolds are still more fun than boring old Orcs.
Plus the PHB needs a small race.
*CouGh* Dromite *coUgH*
*CouGh* Dromite *coUgH*
No no no ... Kenku!
No no no ... Kenku!
Kenkus are medium.
Kenkus are medium.
Really? I thought they were Small. Hmmm...
They should add 'em anyway :P
It's one of those combinations - Str/Con, Dex/Cha, Dex/Wis, (Dex/Anything, really), that gets a bit too much love. Eventually we'll double up on them. But before that, I want some Wis/Cha race to be an awesome Prescient Bard, Devoted Cleric, and Protecting Paladin. Yeah.
Kobolds, as I've said time and time again, are really unlikely to appear in a PH anytime soon. I expect them to make Dragon as a Playing... article, and well before races like Orc, who really don't have a PC value since the coming of Half-Orc (who own the Good-Orc roles in 4e, and I wouldn't be surprised if the "Good Orcs" of Eberron turn out to be a Half-Orc civilisation...), but in any case, Dragon is where Kobolds belong. Because it may be really fun to play shifty little buggers, but in most cases, they're evil worshipers of Tiamat and her Chromatics. And 4e is about playing the good guys. That's why there's no Good-aligned monsters in the MM1, and very few in the MM2. That's why Metallics are Unaligned now - we play good guys, and good guys don't fight good guys, they fight bad guys. And Kobolds are bad guys. So we don't play Kobolds, unless we want to be an extraordinary exception.
Minotaurs and Drow have fluff in 4e that say that there are good members of the race. Kobolds and Mind Flayers don't. And Mind Flayers won't get a Playing Illithids article, because there's no way you can justify eating brains as good. And we're good guys, remember? ;)
Therefore, Minotaurs get an upgrade to PH3, Drow appear in the FRPG, Warforged were never evil (as a whole), and thus get their natural upgrade to EPG, Shadar-kai will appear with Shadow because he's the poster-boy for the source, Illithids were never and will never be a justifiable PC race, and Kobolds, when they get an article in Dragon, will be resigned to be DDi only, like Gnolls. Which is a great draw to get you to buy a subscription to DDi, no? :D
No more Dex/Cha races! Kenku are not needed as a PC race. Dex/Cha is already overdone, especially if you start porting NPC races.
It's one of those combinations - Str/Con, Dex/Cha, Dex/Wis, (Dex/Anything, really), that gets a bit too much love. Eventually we'll double up on them. But before that, I want some Wis/Cha race to be an awesome Prescient Bard, Devoted Cleric, and Protecting Paladin. Yeah.
Kobolds, as I've said time and time again, are really unlikely to appear in a PH anytime soon. I expect them to make Dragon as a Playing... article, and well before races like Orc, who really don't have a PC value since the coming of Half-Orc (who own the Good-Orc roles in 4e, and I wouldn't be surprised if the "Good Orcs" of Eberron turn out to be a Half-Orc civilisation...), but in any case, Dragon is where Kobolds belong. Because it may be really fun to play shifty little buggers, but in most cases, they're evil worshipers of Tiamat and her Chromatics. And 4e is about playing the good guys. That's why there's no Good-aligned monsters in the MM1, and very few in the MM2. That's why Metallics are Unaligned now - we play good guys, and good guys don't fight good guys, they fight bad guys. And Kobolds are bad guys. So we don't play Kobolds, unless we want to be an extraordinary exception.
Minotaurs and Drow have fluff in 4e that say that there are good members of the race. Kobolds and Mind Flayers don't. And Mind Flayers won't get a Playing Illithids article, because there's no way you can justify eating brains as good. And we're good guys, remember? ;)
Therefore, Minotaurs get an upgrade to PH3, Drow appear in the FRPG, Warforged were never evil (as a whole), and thus get their natural upgrade to EPG, Shadar-kai will appear with Shadow because he's the poster-boy for the source, Illithids were never and will never be a justifiable PC race, and Kobolds, when they get an article in Dragon, will be resigned to be DDi only, like Gnolls. Which is a great draw to get you to buy a subscription to DDi, no? :D
Go read races of the dragon. You'll learn much, they aren't BORN evil, it's just a culture thing.
So guess what happens when a kobold leaves his culture and goes out into the real world? ;) As it goes on to essentially say the kobold's true personality starts to come out.
So it's not like you are some incredible exception, it's more along the lines that with time away from the kobold warren/tribe/home, you've had a culture shock of seeing different races and how they interact and so forth. You may still have a bit of arrogance but attitudes can change.
Then you just have to accept the fact that not all kobolds are evil o_o the same with demons and gnolls and so forth, even in their own homes, though i'm sure they have to hide it >.> they are dissenters of good!
Besides they have the qualities to be great heroes and teammates. They are really big on being team players and giving their life to save others, I see an adventuring kobold as one who has taken his fellow companions as something of a surrogate family he wants to protect.
Eberron Orcs are. They don't have to be the only ones.
Ah, Eberron, where the orcs are the tree-huggies hippies, and the elves are the bloodthirsty horde.
Ah, Eberron, where the orcs are the tree-huggies hippies, and the elves are the bloodthirsty horde.
Obviously Eberron was created by Orc fanatics to spread propaganda against all the pink-skin :P
Q: Are there plans to write up all the races from the back of the Monster Manual like the Warforged got?
A: Maybe not all of them… Kobolds, for example, are too powerful. (When has that ever come up before in D&D?) They’d like to eventually do most of them for full write up. More of a question of “when” than “if.”
Mike Mearls Interview.
My suggestion is to change Shifty to a move action Shift 2. Lose some flexibility, and at the same time gain your minor action back.
Plus the PHB needs a small race.
Yes, the game needs more races that are mechanically disadvantaged for no reason other than 'just because'.
Yes, the game needs more races that are mechanically disadvantaged for no reason other than 'just because'.
Your thinking of the Previous Edition, sir. Small Races are more balanced to the bigger counterparts, and don't have that annoying small damage shrunken weapons stuff that the .5 added.
If you think it is to much trouble to play a small race, choose a different one...
Heck i hear kobolds were actually of some IMPORTANCE in eberron for 3.5, so if they made them playable in the eberron player's guide I would buy the guide just for that!
You heard wrong, I'm afraid. Kobolds weren't any more important than in any other setting. They were nasty little buggers who lived in caves and staged ill-fated raids on caravans... you know, the usual.
though somehow I think the tards making the books would rather choose goblins first, don't ask why, thats just what my gut is telling me.
Goblinoids, on the other hand, are a fairly major race in Eberron. They were the dominant race of Khorvaire (the setting's primary continent) for millenia, and one of the nations recognized by the Treaty of Thronehold is a goblinoid nation. They are important, and definitely need write-ups with Eberron soon to launch.
I, too, would love to see kobolds down the road. I'm probably a "tard", though, because I think goblinoids are much more a priority.:P
Kenkus are medium.
As are Dromites, no?
As are Dromites, no?
Dromites are a small Race.
...who own the Good-Orc roles in 4e, and I wouldn't be surprised if the "Good Orcs" of Eberron turn out to be a Half-Orc civilisation...
Not likely. The orcs and goblinoids literally saved the world/plane thousands of years before humans set foot on the continent of Khorvaire. There's no way to retcon the role of Orcs in the setting, and really no need. They have a great place in the setting.
Half-Orcs are one of the races that made (and presumably makes) up one of the dragonmarked houses. They were needed for Eberron, no doubt, but not to replace orcs.
I'd like to see an Dragon Article for Orcs, though not before the Goblinoids. I'd even be able to wait until after the Kobolds got some love. I think it would be well received.
Dromites are a small Race.
As strange as this might sound, I think I'd sort of combined the Dromites and Xephs in my mind. I'm not sure where and when they originally appeared, but my first contact with both was in the 3.5 Expanded Psionics Handbook. I never liked either race, to be honest.
P.S. Personally, I'm against the idea of kobold PCs. I'm just making the case that there could be good kobolds.
P.S. Personally, I'm against the idea of kobold PCs. I'm just making the case that there could be good kobolds.
I think a Kobold article would be very well received. Obviously, whether such a character makes sense in a given game depends upon the setting and group. I don't think anyone questioned their appropriateness, though, simply because of their traditional status as "monsters". Your examples definitely show that, even in a setting that has typically had clear-cut boundaries between "monster races" and PC races, such a character can work for some.
MAKE KOBOLDS CORE O_O PUT THEM IN PHB3
Just say no.
I just rememberd, in the Spelljammer novels I think there was a non-evil illithid.
Naw, you just can't comprehend the convoluted machinations of his evil. :P
My suggestion is to change Shifty to a move action Shift 2. Lose some flexibility, and at the same time gain your minor action back.
I'd be willing to see them get Shift 2 squares as a minor once per encounter. It essentially gives them the power from boots of the fencing master for free. But its significantly less powerful then an at-will shift and they don't get the items property.
I'd just be happy to see a "Monstrous Races" hardcover with details on kobolds, orcs, minotaur, gnolls, etc... without having to dig through various sources to find them.
I was just about to say something along those lines. However with Minotaur coming out in the PH3, I am hoping that Gnolls might also squeeze into that book (they can fit the primal well, and they've already gotten a Dragon article like Minotaur, Warforged, etc). At the least it would be cool to see a CON/DEX class (both gnolls and kobolds could agree to liking that).
I agree that kobolds if anything would fit better into an elemental themed PH.
Here's hoping we'll see some of those lovable gnolls and kobolds in future PH's :D
I was just about to say something along those lines. However with Minotaur coming out in the PH3, I am hoping that Gnolls might also squeeze into that book (
Really? Minotaurs in PH3 (am excited about this) ???? Link please!
Link please!
Not a link, but you get the picture (lol pun)
Give me kobolds!
Not a link, but you get the picture (lol pun)
This owns. Thank you sir!
:bounce:Kobolds are still too strong, and can wait a couple more years.
too strong my butt! I'd settle for move action shift 2 at will. As someone who has played a kobold warlord, shifty is useful but not OP.
also the need dark vision or at LEAST low-light, this monster/npc split is stupid.
It's not just shifty. It's the combo of Shifty plus +2 Con and Dex.
No, it's just shifty. And their power is vastly over-exaggerated.
Con/Dex is a underpowered stat combination. No class uses both well besides fighter, but even fighters don't use them together most of the time. Battlerager uses Con, Tempest uses Dex.
KOBOLDS NEED SOME LOVE.
It's not just shifty. It's the combo of Shifty plus +2 Con and Dex.
I honestly HONESTLY pray you are joking, because I will laugh at that statement. as the above poster said con/dex is underpowered. There is not ONE single class they can use both of those stats as the main and secondary... at least not yet. What happens is they can be "ok" or "mediocre" at a lot of classes and only good in a few with that stat combo.
4e, if you aren't a warlock a RB barbarian, or a defender, your CON isn't a high-pri. Back in the day, you rolled your hp each level, so a decent CON meant guaranteed hps at each level, now a point of con it worth a hit point once. And Int can be substituted for dex almost everywhere non-class specific, so dex is not, in and of itself a priority stat. That said, I play a gnoll (another dex/con race) barbarian, and he is just made of WIN! Having a boost to con and dex allowed me to put my highest score in STR, and still have a ridiculously high amount of hps and defense scores.
Except will defense...that one sucks.
But...kobolds. Shifty. Pretty OP.
Bel
I honestly HONESTLY pray you are joking, because I will laugh at that statement. as the above poster said con/dex is underpowered. There is not ONE single class they can use both of those stats as the main and secondary... at least not yet. What happens is they can be "ok" or "mediocre" at a lot of classes and only good in a few with that stat combo.
So...2 more HP, 1 more Healing surge, +1 to Init rolls, and possibly +1 to Ref and Fort defence is not useful to Any classes right now?
Really?
I don't get what the appeal is. I already don't care about Goliaths, Minotaurs & Wilden. Kobolds are the wimpiest relative of the dragon. I don't even describe them as Kobolds in my campaign, I just use their stats as a substitute for a Skavenesque race. I don't want to sound condescending though. If you could can you make Kobolds seem cool so that I might understand the desire to play one?
People always cheer for the underdog. One of the most memorable characters for me was a Kobold wizard/sorceror in 3.5. Friend played him wonderfully. Personally I prefer goblins for a monstrous race
