| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1wizardmonNov 07, 2008 13:10:46 | I propose a new speculative theory of a Player's Handbook class. Instead of an Invoker or a Inquisitor, we will have an Illusionist class. I have one main argument for this speculation, and that is the cover of the PH2, a closer image of which was posted on Amazon today.![]() Popular belief is that the Shifter on the front is of some Primal summoning class, or perhaps a Shaman with spirit companions. However, I suppose that she is, in fact an, Illusionist. Firstly, I feel that there is a stronger demand for a "true illusionist" than there is for either an Inquisitor or an Invoker. The DDI article left many Illusionist-enthusiasts quite bitter; sure their wizards could create illusions, but those who wanted true illusionists still felt like they were forced to play evokers. Secondly, I feel that this class, beginning with an "I," represents a far more natural feeling Power Source/Class Role combination than an Inquisitor or an Invoker. An Inquisitor/Theurge combination might create an unnecessary "completion" of the Divine power source across all party roles. The Divine power source does not really lend itself to Striker type character concepts anyway (none which really can be differentiated from a religious Rogue, anyway). While the Invoker class has a GOOD concept, we might well still see it implemented under the name of Theurge. The Illusionist, on the other hand, makes perfect sense as an Arcane Controller; we not only lack Controller type classes, but the fact that there would be 3 Arcane Controllers (Wizard, Sorcerer, Illusionist) in two books would show WotC's dedication to "organic" class development, as opposed to "Power Source/Class Role Matrix" development. My next point might be a bit of a stretch, but it is what put this idea into my head in the first place. Look at the implement the female shifter is using, and look what is coming out of it. The animals she has by her are coming out of her wand (possibly a rod, but it looks like a wand to me). The wand (and the rod, for that matter) have been until this point undisputedly arcane implements. The fact that one of these spectral panthers is coming from the wand hints, at least to me, that they are not spirit companions of this shifter, but in fact one of her spells. An arcanist who summons beasts that are not truly there... Sounds like an Illusionist to me! |
| #2thenewblackNov 07, 2008 13:14:50 | Personally i would like an Illusionist, however I would not speculate on just the cover art. |
| #3Lord_VentnorNov 07, 2008 13:16:52 | I personally don't think so. There's probably going to be 4 primal classes in there, and I'm fairly certain that 2 Arcane classes in there are going to be Bard (confirmed) and Sorcerer (probable). The last two will probably be Divine Classes. |
| #4defcon_1Nov 07, 2008 13:18:06 | You answered your own question as to why it's not an Illusionist. That would be three Arcane Controllers. Completely unnecessary. On top of that, it's already been mentioned the classes that will be appearing in the Arcane Power sourcebook (Wizard, Warlock, Bard, Sorcerer & Swordmage), and Illusionist is nowhere to be found. And finally... with the creation of the Swordmage and the Artificer classes, the Arcane power source will end up with 6 classes total. Why in the world would they make a 7th Arcane class, and eliminate a 4th Divine class? Without the Invoker/Inquistor, you have 3 Divine classes... Cleric, Paladin, and Theurge/Templar. The Divine power source needs much more love than that, especially if they are going to try and fill up an entire Divine Power sourcebook. So no, there is no way the character on the cover of the PHII is an Illusioninst. As has been said... it's probably a Shaman with a pair of spirit companions. |
| #5ostrakonNov 07, 2008 13:18:11 | I haven't really participated in any of the I-class debates, but I was seriously holding out hope for Illusionist. I did, however, believe that a) Illusionist would either be Shadow or Arcane, b) Sorcerer and Bard are both Arcane, and might comprise the only two Arcane classes in the book. But looking at the cover that closely, I'm a little more confident. Illusionist would be, dare I say, hella awesome. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if that's a Shaman of some sort. |
| #6Omni-WyvernilNov 07, 2008 13:54:47 | Another point against Illusionist is that none of the previews for Arcane Power mention anything about it (but they do mention the Bard and Sorcerer). If it was going to be in PHB2, it would almost certainly be an Arcane (rather than Shadow) class. I'm going to guess that Illusionist will be in PHB3 as a Shadow Controller. I'll agree that the class on the cover is a Shaman (or summoning Druid), which will end up using rods, daggers, and fetishes(supernatural totem objects) as implements. Alternatively, it could be a Sorcerer, since we're not quite sure about their exact abilities yet. Maybe Sorcerers will have some summoning powers. |
| #7ranadielNov 07, 2008 14:08:22 | I know other people have made this point, but I feel it needs to be made again.but the fact that there would be 3 Arcane Controllers (Wizard, Sorcerer, Illusionist) in two books would show WotC's dedication to "organic" class development, as opposed to "Power Source/Class Role Matrix" development. No. Bad Wizardmon. Illusionist is not in Arcane Power, therefore it is not an arcane class in the PHBII. Unlerss you want to try to make an argument that it is either Divine or Primal(and it does really fit in either one) that proves that it is not in PHBII, and I'm know I've said that before. |
| #8khiftNov 07, 2008 14:44:11 | The only way the Illusionist is making it into PHB2 is if it is either a striker or a divine character. I, for one, cannot imagine the Illusionist being divine, nor can I imagine it being anything other than a controller. I can see no reason why it can't just wait til PHB3 so it can be the Shadow Controller it so deserves to be. Edit: The reason for this statement is that we have two spots left (the I and T spots) and two clues: "spellcastery cleric" and "different/deadly/dangerous striker guy". For the Illusionist to be in PHB2 it would have to be one of those two hinted classes. Actually, I don't even see it as that. The source that named those specifically said that they were new, never before seen classes, and I don't think the Illusionist qualifies as that. |
| #9gloreindlNov 07, 2008 15:07:56 | I, for one, will be upset if WoTC brings back the Sorcerer. Since their inception in D&D I have never liked them. Arcane magics are something that should take real study and hard work to master. Now, if WoTC should make them into what a true Sorcerer is defined as, an individual who traffics with spirits, both those of the dead and those never having been human (or Demi-Human in D&D terms), then ok. Obviously, a role for an arcane class that can summon spirits has a place. As for an Illusionist, I want to know why just a single school wizard? If WoTC introduce Illusionists, which I feel they will, then they should also introduce classes for ALL the schools of magic. TSR realized that having a Magic-suer and an Illusionist classes were not the way to stay innovative, and went with Generalist and School-oriented Wizards in 2 ed. Are we to believe that after all these years, WoTC are going to go back to AD&D as it began, and have learned nothing from the past? I hope not. What I do hope for is a book of Arcane Spell Casters, that includes all sub-types of Wizards, and new spells to flesh out the schools that have been ignored, or at least short changed. BTW, the Sorcerer could be one, and since he/she would summon only spirits including Infernal, Fey and Celestial; meaning "Intelligences" rather than the living beings who fall into those classifications, rather like something that can aid the Sorcerer in gaining information or even spells), it would not step on the toes of a Summoner class, who would summon living beings. |
| #10kylarusNov 07, 2008 15:26:42 | My next point might be a bit of a stretch, but it is what put this idea into my head in the first place. Look at the implement the female shifter is using, and look what is coming out of it. The animals she has by her are coming out of her wand (possibly a rod, but it looks like a wand to me). Looks more like a spear, with the blade obscured by the left creature and the haft becoming shadowed by her companion. Firstly, I feel that there is a stronger demand for a "true illusionist" than there is for either an Inquisitor or an Invoker. The DDI article left many Illusionist-enthusiasts quite bitter; sure their wizards could create illusions, but those who wanted true illusionists still felt like they were forced to play evokers. On the subject of Illusionists though, I'd like to see them done as a specialist thing, similar to how they did the exotic weapons in the Gladiator article. Have Illusionist be a multiclass feat line, with the first one granting an Illusion encounter power and another bonus, the second granting an encounter/at will utility and the third grants a daily. Then, create several other "Mage Specialization" Multiclass feats for the remaining disciplines. |
| #11celticmuttNov 07, 2008 16:36:18 | I, for one, will be upset if WoTC brings back the Sorcerer. Since their inception in D&D I have never liked them. Arcane magics are something that should take real study and hard work to master. Now, if WoTC should make them into what a true Sorcerer is defined as, an individual who traffics with spirits, both those of the dead and those never having been human (or Demi-Human in D&D terms), then ok. Obviously, a role for an arcane class that can summon spirits has a place. You're going to have to be disappointed then, because the Sorcerer class is confirmed in the PHB2 as an Arcane Controller, presumedly similar to the old Wild Mage. As for single schools - there's going to be an Illusionist, mostly Shadow source, and a Necromancer, definitely Shadow source. |
| #12wizardmonNov 07, 2008 17:01:44 | I concede. The points that convince me that I am incorrect was that 1) Illusionist is not listed in Arcane Power class list 2) The shifter IS using a spear, not an implement. It was hidden behind her arm/the goliath's armor. |
| #13stogoeNov 07, 2008 17:26:05 | You're also wrong on another point - I have been longing for a Divine Striker since they announced the existence of Power Sources. I don't care to ever see an Illusionist. I personally don't see the appeal. |
| #14GhostStepperNov 07, 2008 19:49:04 | I had an author from WotC at my table for Weekend at the Realms. He had pdfs of Martial Power, the PHB2 and others on his laptop and while he wasnt actually allowed to talk about future releases, he did let slip what sounded like "Invoker" when we were talking about classes. He made some comment in passing about the book regarding "the new classes like the shaman and the invoker". I supposed i could have miss-heard and he said "evoker", but it makes more sense for it to be an "i" class from what we know. What really frustrated me was that he knew what the next planned campaign setting after eberron is going to be...and i couldnt get him to talk. |
| #15KaldricNov 07, 2008 20:00:15 | Considering the interdependence of illusion/shadow, I can't imagine that they wouldn't take the opportunity to shove Illusionist into the Shadow power source book. |
| #16ostrakonNov 07, 2008 21:45:29 | What really frustrated me was that he knew what the next planned campaign setting after eberron is going to be...and i couldnt get him to talk. You should have trained in Intimidate. And people say character choices don't affect real life. Jeez. ![]() |
| #17GhostStepperNov 07, 2008 22:12:30 | You should have trained in Intimidate. Well, i deffinately failed that skill challenge. The only book he was really interested in pimping to us was Dungeon Delve, for which he was a contributor. He did a lot of the pre-made encounters in there and apparently there are a lot of cool ones for each and every level play. I wanted PHB2, Martial Power and Draconomicon info but he was tight-lipped. |
| #18awesome_dudeNov 07, 2008 22:13:47 | I, for one, will be upset if WoTC brings back the Sorcerer. Since their inception in D&D I have never liked them. Arcane magics are something that should take real study and hard work to master. Then throw a tantrum. They've already confirmed it. By the way, arcane magic "should" be nothing. Now, if WoTC should make them into what a true Sorcerer is defined as, an individual who traffics with spirits, both those of the dead and those never having been human (or Demi-Human in D&D terms), then ok. Obviously, a role for an arcane class that can summon spirits has a place. So basically just another Warlock. |
| #19KoboldAvengerNov 08, 2008 1:15:02 | The prevailing theory is that the "I" class is either the Inquisitor or Invoker, which would be either a divine striker or divine controller. |
| #20karldark_dupNov 08, 2008 23:15:08 | An Illusionist is just a specialized wizard... and what do you know a few months ago they gave us something like that... http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/dragon/364_ClassActs.pdf |
| #21wizardmonNov 08, 2008 23:43:08 | An Illusionist is just a specialized wizard... and what do you know a few months ago they gave us something like that... Thank you, but I know... and what do you know, I said so in the OP. |
| #22_Mithreinmaethor_Nov 09, 2008 9:26:26 | I see Illusionist as Shadow Controller, Necromancer as Shadow Leader Just my thoughts |
| #23karldark_dupNov 09, 2008 9:30:02 | I see Illusionist as Shadow Controller, Necromancer as Shadow Leader I think the name Beguiler is much better than illusionist... illusionist lacks balls. |
| #24the_jewNov 09, 2008 11:48:40 | um just a simple thought. bards could create illusions and what not back in the day, and those creatures on the front of the cover moving with him look a lot like the creatures being summoned by the illusion wielding wizard from the link you just gave us. Just a thought. |
| #25zephenNov 09, 2008 14:07:52 | I would hazard a guess that the illusionist will either be it's own class in the shadow power source, or a build option for the wizard in the arcane power book. Especially since they already brought out that article a while back with illusion based powers for wizards, if they do do a full class of it, it will probably be a while till they do, if at all. |
| #26NautilusNov 09, 2008 19:08:57 | There'll be a shadow controller class, and I expect it to be able to perform illusions. It might be called the illusionist. Then again, it might be called something else, like the witch, shadowcaster or magus. My way-out-on-a-limb prediction for the shadow power source is no defender, at least in PHB3. Yes, I thought of the hexblade, but that class was never hugely popular, and could be postponed. Standing upfront and taking the hits seems at odds with the shadow ethos. |
| #27ranadielNov 09, 2008 19:44:09 | There'll be a shadow controller class, and I expect it to be able to perform illusions. It might be called the illusionist. Then again, it might be called something else, like the witch, shadowcaster or magus. I take the stance that the leader role is the one that doesn't work with the Shadow ethos, as you put it. I associate the Shadow power source mentally with misplacement/illusions and undeath. Neither of those particularly go well with one of the leader's primary jobs, healing. However I could see a Shadow defender doing the oppisite of how the barbarian performed the striker role. A theoretical Shadow defender could go with lower HP, but it has much higher evasive abilities then your average defender. So it could attract enemies with its mark and then move out of the way or become insubstantial to avoid being hurt. Just an idea. *shrugs* |
| #28cintainNov 09, 2008 20:02:16 | you know, the more I think about it, the more I think that we won't be seeing an illusionist class. As other people on this thread have pointed out already, WotC already gave us an Illusionist-themed bunch of power options for the wizard in Dragon magazine #364 (which, BTW, are really good... I encourage anyone who'd like to play an illusion-themed wizard to try them out --- they rock). KarlDark is right: an illusionist is just a specialized wizard. IMHO, part of the philosophy behind class design in 4e is to make each class have a unique feel, and there just isn't enough to distinguish an illusionist from a wizard who can cast illusion spells. Add to that the fact that the psionic power source is likely/probably going to be themed along the lines of mental control and misdirection, and there is even less to tell the illusionist apart from the competitors. Also, we just got the preview of the Bard, and he looks like he's doing a lot of fancy mind-control-themed casting as well... Personally, I like the illusion bit as a half-flavor/half mechanics option to add on to wizards (and bards), and don't see the need for a separate class for it... ... and in a somewhat off-topic tangent, I am hoping that all the talk about the sorcerer as incorporating some wild magic flavour is true... it would be fantastic to have wild magic again (in a better incarnation than how it was in 3.x)... :P :D |
| #29pauln6Nov 10, 2008 7:35:54 | I would hazard a guess that the illusionist will either be it's own class in the shadow power source, or a build option for the wizard in the arcane power book. Especially since they already brought out that article a while back with illusion based powers for wizards, if they do do a full class of it, it will probably be a while till they do, if at all. I'm rooting for a wizard/illusionist build using the gladiator-style mutli-class feats, possibly with a shadow mage paragon path to supplement the umbriri paragon path we have for the swordmage. Certainly an illusionist build is already possible with the powers we already have - don't forget that powers like Colour Spray, Prismatic Spray, Mesmeric Hold etc were full on illusionst spells in 1e and wizards could not use them at all. The Dragon illusionist spells give more options and adding a few twists with multiclass feats could be really fun. I think that the distinction in the fluff contained in the 3e Tome of Magic will be kept so illusionists will only scratch the surface of the shadowfell while proper shadow controllers like the shadowcaster are given the shadow power source. |