Players Option: Heroes of Sword & Spell - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Players Option: Heroes of Sword & Spell

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Kalani
Jan 07, 2011 21:00:15 Do we have any news regarding the current status of this product? It was the only thing I was interested in purchasing (so far) this year, and with it mysteriously disappearing from the product line I am sorely disappointed.

I sincerely hope its release date is simply postponed (whether due to unforeseen technical difficulties or some other reason is irrelevant), and that it has not been pulled completely as the one thing this game requires is transparency/cross-over between Core and Essentials.
#2
Cyber-Dave
Jan 07, 2011 22:12:34 Agreed.
#3
xsv-violence
Jan 07, 2011 23:58:36 Totally agree here, and is about the only way I'll pick up any of the new books save the Monster Vaults and the RC
#4
Damon_Tor
Jan 08, 2011 3:08:02 I have no idea what the function of this book is.

As far as I can see, it's an updated reprint of PHB1. Has there been any confirmation that there will be new content in these books?

I think canning the book is wise.
#5
ranadiel
Jan 08, 2011 6:10:45 I think we are getting a new In the Works article on Monday. If there is no mention of it in that article, then I think it is likely that it has been scrapped.

I have no idea what the function of this book is.

As far as I can see, it's an updated reprint of PHB1. Has there been any confirmation that there will be new content in these books?

I think canning the book is wise.

New fluff! And it standarizes some classes to the Essentials sub-class model, so it sort of new content in the same way that the 3.5 PHB was new content?
#6
Damon_Tor
Jan 08, 2011 6:22:30 I'm actually pretty worried that warlord attack-granting will be nerfed (or simply not present) in the book. It's fairly imbalancing that the leader gets full striker damage + int mod for his standard action, with the new basic attack classes and striker damage 1/turn or 1/attack with thieves and slayers.

Life I said, I hope the book is shelved for several reasons.
#7
lokiare
Jan 08, 2011 7:12:09
I'm actually pretty worried that warlord attack-granting will be nerfed (or simply not present) in the book. It's fairly imbalancing that the leader gets full striker damage + int mod for his standard action, with the new basic attack classes and striker damage 1/turn or 1/attack with thieves and slayers.

Life I said, I hope the book is shelved for several reasons.

Ahhh, yes the inevitable power creep...
#8
Janx_14
Jan 09, 2011 21:30:23
I'm actually pretty worried that warlord attack-granting will be nerfed (or simply not present) in the book. It's fairly imbalancing that the leader gets full striker damage + int mod for his standard action, with the new basic attack classes and striker damage 1/turn or 1/attack with thieves and slayers.

Life I said, I hope the book is shelved for several reasons.

Ahhh, yes the inevitable power creep...

While usually i say powercreep isnt that noticible, in this case, it was a case of taking something every other element in the game assumed was bland and week, and cranking it so it was on par with everything else, thus making it better than everything else when it interacted with its buffers.
Not to mention its impact on the future of systems such as Hybrids and Themes which would be much better with the standard AEDU style.
#9
Mock
Jan 09, 2011 22:42:11
New fluff! And it standarizes some classes to the Essentials sub-class model, so it sort of new content in the same way that the 3.5 PHB was new content?

I think it just rewrites the classes in the distributed 10-level blocks, with extra verbiage for everything - the layout is like the Essentials books, but the content was just reproduced PHB content plus the excess words.

Least, that's what I got from the "Warmaster" or "Weaponmaster" preview, whichever it was called.
#10
ranadiel
Jan 10, 2011 5:54:21
I think it just rewrites the classes in the distributed 10-level blocks, with extra verbiage for everything - the layout is like the Essentials books, but the content was just reproduced PHB content plus the excess words.

Least, that's what I got from the "Warmaster" or "Weaponmaster" preview, whichever it was called.

Considering it was scheduled to come out next month and there was absolutely no mention of it January and Beyond, I think the book does nothing at this point.
#11
Marandahir
Jan 10, 2011 6:26:10 Or, it got pushed back. There have been official previews of it in the past. They've made content. They probably wanted to rework it. I expect it to come out eventually. After all, this was only the In the Works. We've still got Ampersand for previews as well. And explanations too.

We'll see.
#12
lokiare
Jan 10, 2011 10:26:56

I'm actually pretty worried that warlord attack-granting will be nerfed (or simply not present) in the book. It's fairly imbalancing that the leader gets full striker damage + int mod for his standard action, with the new basic attack classes and striker damage 1/turn or 1/attack with thieves and slayers.

Life I said, I hope the book is shelved for several reasons.

Ahhh, yes the inevitable power creep...

While usually i say powercreep isnt that noticible, in this case, it was a case of taking something every other element in the game assumed was bland and week, and cranking it so it was on par with everything else, thus making it better than everything else when it interacted with its buffers.
Not to mention its impact on the future of systems such as Hybrids and Themes which would be much better with the standard AEDU style.

Not to mention the feats that buff BA's. You could potentially make a really broken combo with an Essentials striker and two or more Warlords (or other BA granting class) in the party...
#13
ggroy
Jan 10, 2011 10:38:48 As of today, the amazon.com listings for the "Class Compendium: Heroes of Sword and Spell" and "Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium" books have both been removed.
#14
malisteen
Jan 10, 2011 10:41:34 Just lovely. MME especially. So are there any item books on the schedule, or are the already terrible rarity rules just going to be completely unusable due to the lack of common and rare items?
#15
kairiroses
Jan 10, 2011 11:04:25
Just lovely. MME especially. So are there any item books on the schedule, or are the already terrible rarity rules just going to be completely unusable due to the lack of common and rare items?

I love the item rarity rules / fluff. And really, we don't need a whole lot of Common or Rare items. Rare items are rare by their very definition, and Common items are the items that you can easily get in a "magic shop" in larger or more prosperous cities (therefore there wouldn't really be a lot of them either, mostly just basic magic items.)

At least that's my thought on it.
#16
malisteen
Jan 10, 2011 11:21:52 The rarity rules can produce random magic item treasure of any rarity at any item level. There are several levels without any common items, and tons of levels without any rare items. As such, the rules don't really work right now.

Heroic tier rares in particular are a problem, as there's only one, which is only relevant for melee classes, and even for them it's just lame. Extra lame that every character is supposed to get about one cool, defining rare item per tier (which itself is stupid with the highly random generation of rares, rather then the DM picking them so that every character actually gets one and only one, but whatever), but there's only gauntlets of ogre strength in heroic tier. Hope your wizard likes them! What? You don't? You want to sell them? That's cool, but you can only use the money to buy common items. What? You already have every common item you're able to use because there's only like five of them? Oh, well! Guess you get nothing! Sure put's the 'magic' back in 'magic items', doesn't it?

So yeah, if the treasure rules can produce an item of any rarity at any level then there has to be an item of each rarity and level that the DM could select, and likewise if each character should get a rare item per tier, then there should be a sufficient range of rare items in each tier that every character could get one that they'd actually like to have. And if players can only buy common items, then there needs to be a sufficient range of common items that they can actually use their gold to buy something useful that they don't already have.

Right now there simply aren't enough common and rare items for that to work.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Kalani Jan 07, 2011 21:00:15	Do we have any news regarding the current status of this product? It was the only thing I was interested in purchasing (so far) this year, and with it mysteriously disappearing from the product line I am sorely disappointed. I sincerely hope its release date is simply postponed (whether due to unforeseen technical difficulties or some other reason is irrelevant), and that it has not been pulled completely as the one thing this game requires is transparency/cross-over between Core and Essentials.
#2 Cyber-Dave Jan 07, 2011 22:12:34	Agreed.
#3 xsv-violence Jan 07, 2011 23:58:36	Totally agree here, and is about the only way I'll pick up any of the new books save the Monster Vaults and the RC
#4 Damon_Tor Jan 08, 2011 3:08:02	I have no idea what the function of this book is. As far as I can see, it's an updated reprint of PHB1. Has there been any confirmation that there will be new content in these books? I think canning the book is wise.
#5 ranadiel Jan 08, 2011 6:10:45	I think we are getting a new In the Works article on Monday. If there is no mention of it in that article, then I think it is likely that it has been scrapped. I have no idea what the function of this book is. As far as I can see, it's an updated reprint of PHB1. Has there been any confirmation that there will be new content in these books? I think canning the book is wise. New fluff! And it standarizes some classes to the Essentials sub-class model, so it sort of new content in the same way that the 3.5 PHB was new content?
#6 Damon_Tor Jan 08, 2011 6:22:30	I'm actually pretty worried that warlord attack-granting will be nerfed (or simply not present) in the book. It's fairly imbalancing that the leader gets full striker damage + int mod for his standard action, with the new basic attack classes and striker damage 1/turn or 1/attack with thieves and slayers. Life I said, I hope the book is shelved for several reasons.
#7 lokiare Jan 08, 2011 7:12:09	I'm actually pretty worried that warlord attack-granting will be nerfed (or simply not present) in the book. It's fairly imbalancing that the leader gets full striker damage + int mod for his standard action, with the new basic attack classes and striker damage 1/turn or 1/attack with thieves and slayers. Life I said, I hope the book is shelved for several reasons. Ahhh, yes the inevitable power creep...
#8 Janx_14 Jan 09, 2011 21:30:23	I'm actually pretty worried that warlord attack-granting will be nerfed (or simply not present) in the book. It's fairly imbalancing that the leader gets full striker damage + int mod for his standard action, with the new basic attack classes and striker damage 1/turn or 1/attack with thieves and slayers. Life I said, I hope the book is shelved for several reasons. Ahhh, yes the inevitable power creep... While usually i say powercreep isnt that noticible, in this case, it was a case of taking something every other element in the game assumed was bland and week, and cranking it so it was on par with everything else, thus making it better than everything else when it interacted with its buffers. Not to mention its impact on the future of systems such as Hybrids and Themes which would be much better with the standard AEDU style.
#9 Mock Jan 09, 2011 22:42:11	New fluff! And it standarizes some classes to the Essentials sub-class model, so it sort of new content in the same way that the 3.5 PHB was new content? I think it just rewrites the classes in the distributed 10-level blocks, with extra verbiage for everything - the layout is like the Essentials books, but the content was just reproduced PHB content plus the excess words. Least, that's what I got from the "Warmaster" or "Weaponmaster" preview, whichever it was called.
#10 ranadiel Jan 10, 2011 5:54:21	I think it just rewrites the classes in the distributed 10-level blocks, with extra verbiage for everything - the layout is like the Essentials books, but the content was just reproduced PHB content plus the excess words. Least, that's what I got from the "Warmaster" or "Weaponmaster" preview, whichever it was called. Considering it was scheduled to come out next month and there was absolutely no mention of it January and Beyond, I think the book does nothing at this point.
#11 Marandahir Jan 10, 2011 6:26:10	Or, it got pushed back. There have been official previews of it in the past. They've made content. They probably wanted to rework it. I expect it to come out eventually. After all, this was only the In the Works. We've still got Ampersand for previews as well. And explanations too. We'll see.
#12 lokiare Jan 10, 2011 10:26:56	I'm actually pretty worried that warlord attack-granting will be nerfed (or simply not present) in the book. It's fairly imbalancing that the leader gets full striker damage + int mod for his standard action, with the new basic attack classes and striker damage 1/turn or 1/attack with thieves and slayers. Life I said, I hope the book is shelved for several reasons. Ahhh, yes the inevitable power creep... While usually i say powercreep isnt that noticible, in this case, it was a case of taking something every other element in the game assumed was bland and week, and cranking it so it was on par with everything else, thus making it better than everything else when it interacted with its buffers. Not to mention its impact on the future of systems such as Hybrids and Themes which would be much better with the standard AEDU style. Not to mention the feats that buff BA's. You could potentially make a really broken combo with an Essentials striker and two or more Warlords (or other BA granting class) in the party...
#13 ggroy Jan 10, 2011 10:38:48	As of today, the amazon.com listings for the "Class Compendium: Heroes of Sword and Spell" and "Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium" books have both been removed.
#14 malisteen Jan 10, 2011 10:41:34	Just lovely. MME especially. So are there any item books on the schedule, or are the already terrible rarity rules just going to be completely unusable due to the lack of common and rare items?
#15 kairiroses Jan 10, 2011 11:04:25	Just lovely. MME especially. So are there any item books on the schedule, or are the already terrible rarity rules just going to be completely unusable due to the lack of common and rare items? I love the item rarity rules / fluff. And really, we don't need a whole lot of Common or Rare items. Rare items are rare by their very definition, and Common items are the items that you can easily get in a "magic shop" in larger or more prosperous cities (therefore there wouldn't really be a lot of them either, mostly just basic magic items.) At least that's my thought on it.
#16 malisteen Jan 10, 2011 11:21:52	The rarity rules can produce random magic item treasure of any rarity at any item level. There are several levels without any common items, and tons of levels without any rare items. As such, the rules don't really work right now. Heroic tier rares in particular are a problem, as there's only one, which is only relevant for melee classes, and even for them it's just lame. Extra lame that every character is supposed to get about one cool, defining rare item per tier (which itself is stupid with the highly random generation of rares, rather then the DM picking them so that every character actually gets one and only one, but whatever), but there's only gauntlets of ogre strength in heroic tier. Hope your wizard likes them! What? You don't? You want to sell them? That's cool, but you can only use the money to buy common items. What? You already have every common item you're able to use because there's only like five of them? Oh, well! Guess you get nothing! Sure put's the 'magic' back in 'magic items', doesn't it? So yeah, if the treasure rules can produce an item of any rarity at any level then there has to be an item of each rarity and level that the DM could select, and likewise if each character should get a rare item per tier, then there should be a sufficient range of rare items in each tier that every character could get one that they'd actually like to have. And if players can only buy common items, then there needs to be a sufficient range of common items that they can actually use their gold to buy something useful that they don't already have. Right now there simply aren't enough common and rare items for that to work.