Geez.
(;))
Considering the trend of putting "Playing Race X" races into PHBs/PGs, I can't wait til these guys get put into the PHB with the Shadow source and certain "monsters shouldn't be PCs!!!1!11!" people have a fit.
Ah the rage tears from them will nourish me for weeks.
This is unfathomably awesome. Where can I find the link to the source of this info?
It's in the Editorial Calendar, linked from the main D&D page. The information (in total) is a line for one of the calendar days that says "DRA: Playing Revenants."
Con/Int (The "knowledge from beyond the grave" and unearthly toughness)
Which would make them good:
Infernal Warlocks
Staff Wizards
Sword Mages
Avengers (Retribution)
Shamans (Of either type)
Which is quite thematic for a creature coming back from death to bring vengeance to the living. I could see a revenant who communes with the souls of creatures he met on the "other side" (shaman), one who swore his soul to the forces of hell so he could come back (infernal warlock), or a revenant who takes up the divine cause of vengeance (retribution avenger).
Beautiful idea...the archetype is one that I particularly enjoy and it's a great slap in the face to those false claims that "4th edition only supports playing goody-goody heroes". The Crow is many things, but a goody-goody he's not.
I'm guessing that its not going to be its own race, but be a series of bloodline/heritage feats like in the "Playing Dhampyr" article. Seems like that makes the most sense to me.
It's possible, sure, but unnecessary, and hopefully will not be the direction WotC goes. Dhampyr's basically being a normal race with something extra is one thing, but I think a full blown undead race should default to a specific set of stats/abilities that override anything they once had.
Plus, much like Necromancers, playable undead are popular enough that it would be a mistake to just keep making them be a feat chain, instead of their own race.
It's possible, sure, but unnecessary, and hopefully will not be the direction WotC goes. Dhampyr's basically being a normal race with something extra is one thing, but I think a full blown undead race should default to a specific set of stats/abilities that override anything they once had.
Indeed. Something like the old necropolitan might work as a dhampyr type race, but I would expect revenants to be more involved than that. That is presuming that the revenant name hasn't been coopeted by what is otherwise a 4e update of the necropolitan.
The only problem I foresee is what happens when someone wants to play a small undead PC. I personally don't care, but I don't want to be on the side that leaves other players hosed "just because".
Talk about what happens if you give a mouse a cookie, eh?
I don't actually know what Revenants are, but based on the posters here, it sounds like a refreshing new angle. Hopefully it is an interesting setup. An Int/Con race might be nice. Makes Staff of Defence Wizards viable.
I hope it's a full-blown race. But honestly I was hoping to see Hobgoblin, Goblin, Kobold, Orc, or Bugbear. It might be nice to have at least one of those soon. Hobgoblins strike me as most cooperative to join an adventuring group. But only slightly.
Unless you're assuming or suggesting that they will forgo any racial attributes they had in life and have a completely new set. That could be cool.
If it is going to be a pure race and not just a series of bloodline options then I imagine it will be most likely geared towards the Int/Con line. Assuming under good reason that it's a pure race meant for PHB3 which states that its the sourcebook for Psionic/Primal and Divine Classes, the stats would fit better into that category, or it could be a sneak peek at a race meant for when the Shadow power source comes out.
If it did make it into a PHB like the minotaurs, it would most likely be the eventual Shadow one. PH3 is most likely (hopefully) going to have githyanki, who are Con/Int, and it seems like WotC isn't going to put two races with the same modifiers in the same PHB.
How would revenants be their own separate race and not follow a bloodline mechanic (or something similar), considering they are just mortals who came back??
Unless you're assuming or suggesting that they will forgo any racial attributes they had in life and have a completely new set. That could be cool.
That's exactly what we're saying - that Revenants will be it's own unique race with it's own abilities, independent of and replacing whatever race it used to be.
I'm on the size of it being a feat chain thing like the semi-vampire thingies I never spell right. The reason is that if you make it its own race, you get into weird questions like "What, so only humans become this? Why can't other races become this? And if they can, why do Halflings get so much taller or Dwarfs get so much faster?" Depending on what exactly this concept is, it could be either a feat chain or its own race, but if it's a unique race, they'll have to specifically point out that only humans can become them or something or other weird...
Now, I'm not saying 4e = WoW here - I just earlier today slapped down some guy in the Eidtorial Calender thread whining that Revenents means 4e = WoW, because obviously WoW did everything first, right?
Buuuuuut ... the Forsaken are a good model for this. They're all former humans and elves that in undeath now share the exact same traits and abilities, and basic appearance, because of the magic that made them undead. In the (admittedly poorly done) Warcraft RPG system, the Forsaken entry even says that a few are former members of other races besides humans and elves, but again all still have the same abilities now.Basically, the best way to go with this is either the bloodline feats, which honestly will just end up being a major disappointment because the majority of people who want a playable undead race want it to be it's own thing, not a feat chain. Or have it be a singular race that through the magic of whatever causes them to become undead in the first place makes them lose their former racial characteristics.
Now, I'm not saying 4e = WoW here - I just earlier today slapped down some guy in the Eidtorial Calender thread whining that Revenents means 4e = WoW, because obviously WoW did everything first, right?
Basically, the best way to go with this is either the bloodline feats, which honestly will just end up being a major disappointment because the majority of people who want a playable undead race want it to be it's own thing, not a feat chain. Or have it be a singular race that through the magic of whatever causes them to become undead in the first place makes them lose their former racial characteristics.
Oh don't get me wrong. They could be their own race. It's just that, if they are, it has to be adequately explained why they all have the same statistics, whether it's that they all originated from the same race for some reason or whether they originated from a couple of similar races which all now have the same statistics for some reason.
Heck, I actually have my own "undead-ish but not really, sort of" home-brew race that you can find in my sig, called "Stillborn." In their case, a member of the race can only be born from either human parents who have both been subjected to large amounts of necrotic pollution or from other stillborn parents. Other races simply miscarry when exposed to such massive amounts of necrotic pollution, but human anatomy specifically keeps their children capable of living with the resulting biological abnormalities...
You could even "bring back" a former character this way...though you may need to do some retraining to make them as viable as they used to be...unless it's been a while since they died, then you could retrain for each level gained since they died.
Again...the problem arises in that this does no good for people who prefer small characters. But...oh well.
Uh huh. I know that, traditionally, both in D&D and the real world, revenants were people who rose from the grave to complete a purpose, but I'm in the "Revenants will be a race rather than a feat chain" camp. I rather doubt that they'd spend time on a (free) Spotlight: Revenant article as well as a (subscription) Playing Revenant article if there was only a set of feats to the race. After all, the Dhampyr only got one article... although, I admit, that was called "Playing Dhampry" too...
I believe the Spotlight: articles are focused on minis. I'm leaning towards a feat chain similar to the Dhampyr article earlier.
Bel
Who knows, the revenant could just be this guy.
I find that outcome acceptable.
Funny how they're putting the interesting races into Dragon and slapping Wilden in an actual book.
Now, I'm not saying 4e = WoW here - I just earlier today slapped down some guy in the Eidtorial Calender thread whining that Revenents means 4e = WoW, because obviously WoW did everything first, right?
I think it's more a style.
I would have agreed with you until I reached Outland in WoW and saw... earthmotes, recently tacked-on to Forgotten Realms for no real reason other than making the world more like Nagarand.
Undead: You do not need to eath or breath, however this has absolutely not in-game effect and your character may still starve or drown
No, it wasn't original, I intend to have something like that in my own setting too when I get around to fleshing out the torn city itself.
Back on topic. Revenants would be better served IMO as its own race instead of feats, two reasons - 1. No one liked the dhampyr feats, though the coupling of vampire and mortal results in the offspring who has some of the vampiric qualities. and 2. It would be harder to accept(for me anyway) feats that brought a character back from the dead to complete a task rather than having it as its own race with racial abilities.
Definitely doable either way though.
then I will make a warlock (Infernal pact) that died and made a deal to come back to see my wife again, but I am hiduesly disfigured...what fine..it is easierf to say I want to play spawn...
A valiant warrior, bathed in holy light and swinging a greatsword in arcs of divine wrath, cuts through hordes of undead while his companions cover his sides in melee and bombard the legions of walking dead from a distance. Clearing the edge of the horde, he confronts the vile lich controlling the slavering army. As the lich curses the living and claims that the "undead are the future", and "no living bag of flesh shall stand in his way", the paladin, aglow with the radiance of his god, throws his helmet to the ground to reveal a gaunt face, partially devoid of flesh, with eyes blazing a brilliant gold. He steps forward, levels his sword, and unleashes a cry of holy rage as the awestruck lich realizes that his days will not end on the blade of a "mere mortal", but on the blade of a risen embodiment of holy vengeance.
OR
A small caravan is surrounded by a group of Orc brigands. With weapons drawn and bloodlust in their eyes, the orcs slowly circle the group. Suddenly, a battle cry is unleashed from the woods a few yards to the west, followed by a group of heroes charging out of the forest. As they approach, a few of the orcs run to meet the charge, while the others continue to close on the caravan. From the rear of the group, a gaunt figure emerges, wearing earth-tone robes and large quantities of jewelery carved from bone and stone, steps forward a few steps, and is swallowed by a shimmering green and purple portal. Moments later, a snarling, jet black panther emerges from a similar portal, placing itself between the orcs and the caravan. A quick look at the beast reveals bone protruding from various points and areas where skin seems to be totally absent, yet somehow the massive cat looks just as menacing and FAR from sickly compared to its "normal" kin. No one can doubt that the gaunt priestess of nature and this semi-living panther are one and the same. As the orcs advance, she adopts a defensive stance and growls at the savages. None of them will live to tell this tale.
Ok, sorry for the length, and while it was probably unneeded, I thought it might be interesting to demonstrate the roleplaying versatility that such a race could have, even in classes that it would normally not be put in. :D
Personally, I'm really hoping that Revenants are a full-fledged player race. It makes for some really interesting concepts and possibilities. Revenant Paladins would be quite interesting, as would revenant druids. Imagine the following:
A valiant warrior, bathed in holy light and swing a greatsword in arcs of divine wrath, cuts through hordes of undead while his companions cover his sides in melee and bombard the legions of walking dead from a distance. As he clears the edge of the horde, he confronts the vile lich controlling the slavering army. As the lich curses the living and claims that the "undead are the future", and "no living bag of flesh shall stand in his way", the paladin, aglow with the radiance of his god, throws his helmet to the ground to reveal a gaunt face, partially devoid of flesh, with eyes blazing a brilliant gold. He steps forward levels his sword, and unleashes a cry of holy rage as the awestruck lich realizes that his days will not end on the blade of a "mere mortal", but on the blade of a risen embodiment of holy vengeance.
OR
A small caravan is surrounded by a group of Orc brigands. With weapons drawn and bloodlust in their eyes, the orcs slowly circle the group. Suddenly, a battle cry is unleashed from the woods a few yards to the west, followed by a group of heroes charging out of the forest. As they approach, a few of the orcs run to meet the charge, while the others continue to close on the caravan. From the rear of the group, a gaunt figure emerges, wearing earth-tone robes and large quantities of jewelery carved from bone and stone, steps forward a few steps, and is swallowed by a shimmering green and purple portal. Moments later, a snarling, jet black panther emerges from a similar portal, placing itself between the orcs and the caravan. A quick look at the beast reveals bone protruding from various points and areas where skin seems to be totally absent, yet somehow the beast looks just as menacing and FAR from sickly. No one can doubt that the gaunt priestess of nature and this semi-living panther are one and the same. As the orcs advance, she adopts a defensive stance and growls at the savages. None of them will live to tell this tale.
Ok, sorry for the length, and while it was probably unneeded, I thought it might be interesting to demonstrate the roleplaying versatility that such a race could have, even in classes that it would normally not be put in. :D
Actually a quite enjoyable descriptive read. And much what I hope to see for the revenant as a race in the first place personally.
I can already imagine the racial traits:
Undead: You do not need to eath or breath, however this has absolutely not in-game effect and your character may still starve or drown
Totally.
You do not have vulnerability to radiant damage. Your type is humanoid (not undead) and thus you cannot be [shackled, exorcised, turned], but you can be [polymorphed, feared].
I hope it doesn't work out like that. ;)
You do not have vulnerability to radiant damage.
Not all undead have radiant vulnerability, and a PC version certainly shouldn't have it.
Your type is humanoid (not undead)
This is not 3.5. In 4E, something can indeed be both humanoid and undead. Check out, I don't know, the Death Knight (MM 50) for example.
and thus you cannot be [shackled, exorcised, turned], but you can be [polymorphed, feared].
I think you're confused as to what being undead does and does not mean in 4E. The definition of what an undead creature is and can do has been radically changed since 3.5. Heck, Undead have CON scores now!
Just so everybody's clear, this is what being undead means in 4E:
- Undead are not living creatures; spells and effects that specifically target living creatures do not work against them.
- Undead do not need to breath or sleep.
4E undead are otherwise still subject to all of the same effects and conditions that humans are, including Charm effects, Poison effects, Sleep effects, Critical Hits, Diseases, being Dazed, being Dominated, being Petrified, being Stunned, and being Weakened. Undead in 4E even still need to eat just like everybody else.
Now, it's true that the majority of undead otherwise do have Necrotic Resistance, Darkvision, and immunity to Poison and Disease, but that's just a trend, not a rule.
Crimson, I was making an obscure WoW reference, and in jest. And no, I don't actually buy into the whole D&D = WoW argument; I was just being silly. ;)
Sorry. I have WoW, but I'm not all that into it, so I didn't get the reference. :P
Still though, I did really want to make that point that people think a lot of things are required for an undead creature that really aren't, so I'll leave the response up. Undead creatures don't have to have Darkvision or poison immunity or radiant vulnerability or a whole lot of other things that many undead have only due to coincidental trend.
We are assuming that it is the Revenants of old. Since there is no monster writeup for a Revenant in either of the monster manuals. As far as we know it could be something totally new and different.
It's likely to play on Revenants from previous editions, because that's what WotC tends to do. It could be something new, but unlikely.
That said, since Intelligent undead tend to be templates as NPCs I favor the idea of it being a bloodline. It could be a playable version of an NPC template presented in the DMG 2. I suspect that a completely new race would be outside the scope of a Dragon article.
That said, it could be a PH3 pre-release article (I'm not sure if the timeline works out right), in which case it would be a race appearing in the PH3.
I think it's more a style.
I would have agreed with you until I reached Outland in WoW and saw... earthmotes, recently tacked-on to Forgotten Realms for no real reason other than making the world more like Nagarand.
Pfft... floating hunks of Terra Firma have been around waaaay longer than post-Spellplague FR or WoW. I mean, we may as well say they're trying to make it like Vision of Escaflowne... they had airships that flew by use of "earthmotes." Or like Lunar: Silver Star Story with it's floating magical city of Vane. Or... well, you get the point.
For those that think revenants have to be a set of bloodline feats, what if instead of merely being animated corpses revenants are instead restless spirits given an entirely unique physical form. That way things like a halfling's size or a dwarf's speed are irrelevant factors. Whatever the revenant was in its former life doesn't matter anymore. Some revenants might not even be the result of any one restless soul but an amalgamation of many individuals (a vengeful undead that rose from a mass grave to take vengeance on the tyrant that had an entire village executed).
Traditionally vengeful spirits take on forms that had meaning to them in life. The flavor you suggest is cool, but works just as well for a bloodline as it does a new race.
WotC has said in the past that completely new classes and races are reserved for Players Handbooks and Player Guides. It is possible that they changed their minds (at least regarding races) but it seems more likely that it's either a bloodline or something new that we haven't seen yet.
WotC has said in the past that completely new classes and races are reserved for Players Handbooks and Player Guides. It is possible that they changed their minds (at least regarding races) but it seems more likely that it's either a bloodline or something new that we haven't seen yet.
That policy only applies to the printed books. The online magazines are a different matter entirely, or did I only imagine the articles on gnolls, minotaurs, and shadar-kai?
That being said, I can definitely see Revenants as a series of "bloodline" feats, although I probably wouldn't name them as such given that Revenants certainly won't be able to reproduce. One thing I'd be interested in playing, assuming of course that Revenant is a series of feats is to play a Revenant Warforged-a rusting,skeletal creature who's inhuman determination is the only thing keeping it's crumbling body together.
I can already imagine the racial traits:
Undead: You do not need to eath or breath, however this has absolutely not in-game effect and your character may still starve or drown
Wow that'd suck considering Warforged don't have that stipulation.
Fully half of the playtested races in Dragon have been confirmed for PHBs, with strong hints for the rest.
Fully all playtest articles are outright stipulated as playtest articles. This isn't a playtest article (or if it is, whoever did the calendar stuffed it up). Non-playtest races can and will be reprinted in books. But that doesn't make the original write-up a playtest.
That policy only applies to the printed books. The online magazines are a different matter entirely, or did I only imagine the articles on gnolls, minotaurs, and shadar-kai?
Technically those weren't new races. They were player versions of monster races. We haven't seen the Revanant in any form. That makes it either a feat-chain, an unmarked playtest because WotC just doesn't care much about quality control or a new behaviour for WotC.
crazy die and come back mechanics
Revenant Rebirth
prerequisites: 11th level, dead.
benefits: [insert default revenant abilities here]. You are no longer dead. This feat does not prevent you from dying again.
special: you can retrain another feat you have for this feat exactly one day after you die, providing you are still dead. This does not count as one of your normal retraining choices. If you lose this feat for any reason you die.
prerequisites: 11th level, dead.
benefits: [insert default revenant abilities here]. You are no longer dead. This feat does not prevent you from dying again.
special: you can retrain another feat you have for this feat exactly one day after you die, providing you are still dead. This does not count as one of your normal retraining choices. If you lose this feat for any reason you die.
One last thing about revenant as a series of feats. What about retraining? Characters should not be able to simply stop being a vengeance-born undead so simply.
What about retraining? Characters should not be able to simply stop being a vengeance-born undead so simply.
Well, that's the same problem with Dhampyr, though. I prefer a full race, too, but retraining isn't a problem with a Revenant feat tree so much as a problem with the concept of "race as feat tree".
To me, being a revenant shouldn't be something a player just becomes subtly over the course of their adventuring career.
It wouldn't necessarily need to. Check this out:
Revenant
Benefit: You become undead and gain some qualities or benefits. You can take further feats to enhance these qualities or benefits or gain new ones or whatever.
that doesn't make any sense as a feat because a character could pick it up midway through their life without ever having died.
Unless they add:
Prerequisite: You must have died. :P
What about retraining? Characters should not be able to simply stop being a vengeance-born undead so simply.
Simple solution:
Special: You can't retrain this feat. ;)
Special: You can't retrain this feat. ;)
As a DM I'd take a very dim view on someone trying to retrain any of the bloodline feats.
Revenant Rebirth
prerequisites: 11th level, dead.
benefits: [insert default revenant abilities here]. You are no longer dead. This feat does not prevent you from dying again.
special: you can retrain another feat you have for this feat exactly one day after you die, providing you are still dead. This does not count as one of your normal retraining choices. If you lose this feat for any reason you die.
Just an example. I don't think that's the best way to do it.
Prerequisite: You must have died. :P
Special: You can't retrain this feat. ;)
I actually mentioned, and dismissed, the idea prerequisite idea. While both of both of those "solutions" work are sloppy and really don't have any place in 4e. Being required to die just to take a feat/class is the kind of 3.5 stuff I never want to see again. Being unable to retrain flies full in the face of 4e's flexibility.
As a DM I'd take a very dim view on someone trying to retrain any of the bloodline feats.
It's really not so bad. Retraining a bloodline feat doesn't have to mean that a character is any less a dhampire (or whatever future heritages exist). It just means that the player is choosing not to define the characters by that heritage.
It might not be realistic from a simulations perspective, but 4e is a much more narrative based game. I've read/watched plenty of stories where a character's heritage might be an incredibly important factor in one story arc, then become only a side element in subsequent arcs, until several arcs later it has fade to the point of being an obscure detail that is at best mentioned off-handedly or during flashbacks.
Retraining a bloodline feat doesn't have to mean that a character is any less a dhampire (or whatever future heritages exist).
I disagree.
It just means that the player is choosing not to define the characters by that heritage.
In which case you can say anyone and everyone is a dhampyr. No feat required.
Personally I'm going to require at least the base feat.
In which case you can say anyone and everyone is a dhampyr. No feat required.
Anyone can be spellscared with or without the feat. I real don't see heritages as any different and, since WotC didn't put any first level only or can't be retrained restrictions on those feats, it would seem the folks in charge concur.
An undead shadow race that's tied to the Raven Queen, and is probably related to the souls of the dead who are in the passage between life and death. The Ampersand stated that it doesn't matter what race they were in life - so it sounds like they're "The Dead" spoken of in Manual of the Planes, as opposed to "The Living" - aka the Shadowborn (and the Shadar-kai, who got a separate category) - and as opposed to the rest of "The Undead." Makes sense. Not too many ways to make a good undead character lest they're an Eladrin Baelnorn, or a Blaspheme Knight or something, and even then, most of those are Unaligned. But if you're the departed soul of a good person who takes physical form and hasn't let go of their morals and personality from life, then I can see them as a viable hero race. Not to mention that the forthcoming Assassins are not supposed to be good (well, that's what the Ampersand seems to imply), so Revenants could be a racial opening for evil characters as well.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1125543
I have a subscription but don't see where I can find the content.
is this content available yet?
I have a subscription but don't see where I can find the content.
It'll be up on the 15th according to the editorial calendar.
Why not make the Revenant a simple Template that adds to an existing character when they die - assuming you need to die to be a Revenant.
I always thought a Revenant was one who returned from the dead (usually with the help or a God or powerful wizard) to dispatch the wrongdoer who sent them to their grave.
I have not read a DMG or MM but don't we still have Templates in 4E?
Templates are things you add to monsters to make them Elite monsters. There is no such thing as a Templated PC. Thank God.
Templates are things you add to monsters to make them Elite monsters. There is no such thing as a Templated PC. Thank God.
[indent]Emphasis mine.[/indent]That's something of an overstatement. The level adjustment system of 3E was a bit of a mess, but the basic concept of templating was sound. If WotC found an effective way to implement a balanced PC template system in 4E, it would open up a myriad of new character options.
Bloodline feats, like dhampire, can somewhat accomplish this already. They are however limited in there ability to alter a PC's abilities as they have to balance against other feats and can't change PCs on a level so fundamental as to create mechanical/flavor dissonance when the retraining rules are applied.
Not to mention that the forthcoming Assassins are not supposed to be good (well, that's what the Ampersand seems to imply)
Not sure where you got this from.
the original class designed for player characters who wanted to embrace the dark side of being a hero … get ready for the assassin!
Emphasis mine. It's hard to call an evil character a hero, even if they do "good deeds." After all, if they do too many heroic things, then they aren't all that evil, are they?
the original class designed for player characters who wanted to embrace the dark side of being a hero … get ready for the assassin!
Emphasis mine. It's hard to call an evil character a hero, even if they do "good deeds." After all, if they do too many heroic things, then they aren't all that evil, are they?
I played a 1E assassin with a code of ethics albeit slightly mercenary. He was fairly heroic, usually was disguised as a thief or fighter till his moment came, it's not really that hard to do.
As for the Revenant, I'm curious to see how they work it as it's own race.
Bel
Small characters
Small characters follow most of the same rules as Medium ones, with the following exceptions.
- You can’t use two-handed weapons, such as greatswords and halberds.
- When you use a versatile weapon, such as a longsword, you must use it two-handed, but you don’t deal additional damage for doing so.
Assuming revenants keep the same body/stature as in life, the above is a slight strike against Small revenants. Are there any other issues that might complicate keeping the body from your previous life? IOW, is there a problem with members of the revenant "race" having different bodies? (Movement might be the first thought to pop up, but I think it'd be sufficient--and creepy-cool
--to give them all the same preternatural speed regardless of body.)Undead
Undead are not living creatures, so effects that specifically target living creatures do not work against them. They don’t need to breathe or sleep.
Vulnerability to radiant damage doesn't seem to come with the Undead keyword, nor any special resistance or immunity. So what are the balance risks of having this type?? Some specifics:
- No Sleep - Downtime could still be required for some fairly easy to swallow fluff reason, yes? Perhaps less time, like an eldadrin.
- No Breathing - Well, Watersoul genasi can breathe underwater. Aside from that, how often are characters going to be in a vacuum? (Hm...I suppose there may be suffocating attacks?)
- Targeted Effects - How many effects only target living creatures?
- Turning, etc. - What are the worst case scenarios for your character being turned, rebuked, etc. by divine NPCs?
Living Construct: A living construct is considered a living creature that does not need to eat, drink, or breathe. However, this does not render the creature immune to any effect. A living construct needs only 4 hours to benefit from extended rest, and it gains a +2 bonus to saving throws against ongoing damage. When a living construct rolls a death save, it takes the better of its die roll or 10 as the result.
If being a full-blown undead doesn't work, well, Warforged go by the above. Why not something similar for revenants...maybe reenlisting the term "Deathless"? (On the other hand, an "Undead Origin" similar to "Fey" or "Astral Origin" might bring back the problems of having the Undead keyword. Idk.)
LASTLY, what are we expecting, at minimum, to see with revenants for them to feel undead and cool? As a potential point of reference, here's the 3e "Undead Type." (
What a contrast!)3e Undead
Undead Type (3e)
Undead are once-living creatures animated by spiritual or supernatural forces.
Features
An undead creature has the following features.
* 12-sided Hit Dice.
* Base attack bonus equal to ½ total Hit Dice (as wizard).
* Good Will saves.
* Skill points equal to (4 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die, if the undead creature has an Intelligence score. However, many undead are mindless and gain no skill points or feats.
Traits
An undead creature possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
* No Constitution score.
* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
* Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
* Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
* Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.
* Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
* Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.
* Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.
* Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
* Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
* Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
* Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.
Undead are once-living creatures animated by spiritual or supernatural forces.
Features
An undead creature has the following features.
* 12-sided Hit Dice.
* Base attack bonus equal to ½ total Hit Dice (as wizard).
* Good Will saves.
* Skill points equal to (4 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die, if the undead creature has an Intelligence score. However, many undead are mindless and gain no skill points or feats.
Traits
An undead creature possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
* No Constitution score.
* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
* Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
* Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
* Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.
* Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
* Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.
* Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.
* Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
* Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
* Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
* Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.
Why would it be so hard to flavor the revenants as more dead and make them a full on race.
Devas don't get all the languages from past lives and they are all the same size and speed regadless of previous incarnations.
As long as you aren't dead-set on having a current character turn into a revenant, I don't see why a player couldn't have a revenant start at level 1.
Turning, etc. - What are the worst case scenarios for your character being turned, rebuked, etc. by divine NPCs
Don't forget friendly fire from any and all clerics in your party.....perhaps even including yourself. Are you affected by your own bursts?
The one thought that runs through my head and has been mentioned by 1 of the posters is that this new race will have been created by the Raven Queen.
So that they are not affected by the Shadow Taint and so are a true race of the Shadowfell and not necessarily an undead race at all, just one of the Shadow Races that still need to be examined in the kind of detail that we have for the Fey.
I'd like to see it be a race from level 1 not something that a character must die to achieve. It seemed that way at first but the new "Character Death is only the beginning" tagline on the DnD homepage has me worried. I'm personally hoping it is the Con/Int combo everyone is predicting but I've been surprised too many times by 4e to expect too much.
:lightbulb 
:evillaughIf being a full-blown undead doesn't work, well, Warforged go by the above. Why not something similar for revenants...maybe reenlisting the term "Deathless"? (On the other hand, an "Undead Origin" similar to "Fey" or "Astral Origin" might bring back the problems of having the Undead keyword. Idk.)
Well, "deathless" are a type creature from eberron. They're sort of a reverse undead, powered by positive energy. It would be interesting to see if they relate to revenants at all.
Don't forget friendly fire from any and all clerics in your party.....perhaps even including yourself. Are you affected by your own bursts?
If bursts were a problem, they already would be for any PC with a burst that deals fire or force or any other type of damage. The origin square in a close burst isn't effected by the burst.
I'm just biased. ;) I have in mind a favorite revenant character from an old trilogy I read long ago. She was pretty awesome and I guess made a strong impression.
Having said that, my idea of what a revenant is, shaped most recently by the Risen and Promethians of WOD, already exists--Warforged. In fact, I find it more palatable that a construct made of flesh (i.e. a flesh golem with sentience instead of a spark) is more likely to be living construct, than one made of wood, stone and metal.
Now, the warforged components feat seems more difficult to pull off but even Frankenstien's Monster had his bolts.
We need a cool +Con +Int race, and not everyone likes gith.
At least, not everyone likes the 'Yanki.
I call BS on this particular argument.
Sure, some people don't like Gith. That doesn't that those people will like Revenants, though. And they shouldn't assign particular stat boosts because "we need something with that stat boost combination" or "we need something else with that stat boost combination." They should assign stat boosts that make sense. Now, I'm not saying that +CON/+INT isn't a good idea, I'm just saying those are not at all that reasons that it is a good idea...
I do think that it's pretty obvious that as an undead race that one of the ability scores boosted is going to be constitution.
Who knows, the revenant could just just be this guy.
Of course, there were a couple of other inspirations. I can't ignore that The Crow was a big one...
Saw that one coming...;)
Link?
Spotlight Interview for Revenants
I call BS on this particular argument.
Hey man, I was just pointing out that they're two different races, and that only one of them gets Con/Int.
And I agree, the 'we don't have one yet' argument is a fairly irrational one.
I do think that it's pretty obvious that as an undead race that one of the ability scores boosted is going to be constitution.
I find this statement to be ironic considering that in previous editions(well 3.X at least, dunno about earlier) undead had no con scores.
I do think that it's pretty obvious that as an undead race that one of the ability scores boosted is going to be constitution.
I find this statement to be ironic considering that in previous editions(well 3.X at least, dunno about earlier) undead had no con scores.
Heartily agreed. Gives me a good chuckle ever time I think about it too hard.
Yet there is still some merit to the change. Undead are often known for their resilience, so now that CON is not an arbitrary nul-ability it makes sense for undead to have good CON.
On the other other hand, being damn hard to stop has always been a selling point to the revenant as such, coming back to right a wrong and refusing to go away until business is finished, so sturdiness still makes some sense . . .
Plus I don't see the point of giving them a Con bonus. Sure, they're sturdy, but won't a Strength bonus also fill that role? It does raise their Fort after all.
I find this statement to be ironic considering that in previous editions(well 3.X at least, dunno about earlier) undead had no con scores.
Technically they didn't in earlier editions either, mostly as monsters weren't given attribute stats period. (Which made things like chill touch weirdly more powerful against true monsters than against NPCs (It had a strength penalty associated with it, and against monsters who didn't have strength scores listed it was a flat THAC0/Damage penalty).
Personally, I'd like to see it be a Str+ Cha+ race. Dragonborn are nice, but we need more options to fit the bill (plus the artwork at the end of the Spotlight interview seems like a Revenant Sorcerer to me).
Plus I don't see the point of giving them a Con bonus. Sure, they're sturdy, but won't a Strength bonus also fill that role? It does raise their Fort after all.
Good point about Str affecting Fortitude. It occurs to me that they could get a "battlerager" kind of racial power, something that grants them temp HP (which can give you the sort of "shrugging off damage as if it never happened" effect).
The "undead" race I made up was Str/Int, but that had more to do with the background of the race in particular than any sort of "oh, this makes sense for the undead" brainstorming.
Personally, I'd like to see it be a Str+ Cha+ race. Dragonborn are nice, but we need more options to fit the bill (plus the artwork at the end of the Spotlight interview seems like a Revenant Sorcerer to me).
This goes back to "we need something else with that stat boost combination" is not a good reason, as pointed out by Cimson_Concerto (see we can actually agree every now and again
). Also the pictures at the end of the article could just as easily be a wizard, or an invoker, or a warlock, or merely a generic non-classed image.Plus I don't see the point of giving them a Con bonus. Sure, they're sturdy, but won't a Strength bonus also fill that role? It does raise their Fort after all.
STR is good for fortitude, but CON is good for fortitude, hit points, and healing surges making it a stat that goes a lot further in emphasizing durability.
STR is good for fortitude, but CON is good for fortitude, hit points, and healing surges making it a stat that goes a lot further in emphasizing durability.
Okay, good point. I was wondering about those two scores for the revenant as well.
About the revenant interview......I thought we were getting the actual rules...?
Isn't it June?Okay, good point. I was wondering about those two scores for the revenant as well.
About the revenant interview......I thought we were getting the actual rules...?
Monday
Monday
That's forever!
If I wait that long I think I'll die!Guess I'll just have to come back....
(Harharhar! :P)
Until I read the Design Notes article.
I was dead set against allowing anyone I know, much less play with, to play a Revenant. But now, I could totally see one person, even a whole party start as Revenants, with the right story line.
What an excellent way to work this out.
*applaud*
Plus it gave me a little more insight into the Deva and how that looks and feels in-game.
Wow. Dark Reaping is pretty lame.
Conversely, the (Race) Soul feats are...pretty impressive, considering that they don't seem to have a limit on how many of them you can take (unless I missed it). So you can pick up the racial powers of every race, and choose among them every encounter.
Conversely, the (Race) Soul feats are...pretty impressive, considering that they don't seem to have a limit on how many of them you can take (unless I missed it). So you can pick up the racial powers of every race, and choose among them every encounter.
Each one has a specific race as a requirement. You can only get the feats from one race.
That said, i see the half-elf being a huge favorite among optimizers. Now you can get +Dex and mooch an at-will from another class!
Conversely, the (Race) Soul feats are...pretty impressive, considering that they don't seem to have a limit on how many of them you can take (unless I missed it). So you can pick up the racial powers of every race, and choose among them every encounter.
Nope, because they each have a racial prerequisite, so you can only choose one. One of the features of being a Revenant is that you can choose one race, and count as a member of that race for the purposes of choosing feats.
Edit: Ninja'd
Edit 2: It also applies to Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies, in addition to feats.
Nope, because they each have a racial prerequisite, so you can only choose one. One of the features of being a Revenant is that you can choose one race, and count as a member of that race for the purposes of choosing feats.
Yeah, I just noticed that. My bad, total brainfart.
That said, i see the half-elf being a huge favorite among optimizers. Now you can get +Dex and mooch an at-will from another class!
+Dex? Sorry, I forget which feat that is... (Honestly.) Reminder, please?
What I did notice, though, is that (as I read it) choosing "Half-Elf" for your Past Life feature doesn't automatically grant access to Human and Elf feats too, since that comes from a Half-Elf racial feature which you don't get access to -- just in case anyone was thinking of trying that.
Very surprised at the lack of Changeling and Kalashtar soul feats. That's definitely something that needs to be added in the compiled issue. Especially since even the Warforged, of all races, gets a soul feat.
The article confirms that the Gnoll is the red-headed bastard step-child that was dropped off at foster care with a crack-***** foster mother of the PC races. Soul feats for Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, and Warforged, but no Gnolls.
Lack of a Deva soul feat makes natural sense, but I'm willing to bet that there will be at least one, and probably three or more, complaints by people about no Deva soul feats, without them stopping to think why there's no feat.
+Dex? Sorry, I forget which feat that is... (Honestly.) Reminder, please?
What I did notice, though, is that (as I read it) choosing "Half-Elf" for your Past Life feature doesn't automatically grant access to Human and Elf feats too, since that comes from a Half-Elf racial feature which you don't get access to -- just in case anyone was thinking of trying that.
I was referencing the fact that now you can be a +Dex race (Revenant) and mooch a an at-will from another class (Versatile Master) without being stuck with a +Cha/+Con race (Half-elf). It makes some of the multiclassing CharOp builds work better. A ranged Revenant (Half-elf) rogue who picks up Twin Strike to throw daggers is more efficient than a half-elf, for instance.
Mildly surprised at the +Dex instead of +Int, but makes sense since they want it to complement the Assassin class.
Very surprised at the lack of Changeling and Kalashtar soul feats. That's definitely something that needs to be added in the compiled issue. Especially since even the Warforged, of all races, gets a soul feat.
The article confirms that the Gnoll is the red-headed bastard step-child that was dropped off at foster care with a crack-***** foster mother of the PC races. Soul feats for Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, and Warforged, but no Gnolls.
Lack of a Deva soul feat makes natural sense, but I'm willing to bet that there will be at least one, and probably three or more, complaints by people about no Deva soul feats, without them stopping to think why there's no feat.
I didn't notice the lack of Gnoll feats on my first pass, but that is irritating. I am not surprised by the lack of changeling / kalashtar feats, though; that book isn't officially "out" yet, and they've generally been careful about formally supporting (as in, mentioning races, classes, and so forth) stuff that hasn't been released yet.
Although, at the same time, they mention one of the sample characters being a member of the as-yet-unreleased Assassin class.
My copy has a gnoll soul feat.
Are you sure thats not the Gnome soul feat?
My copy has a gnoll soul feat.
I see Genasi, I see Gnome, I see Goliath, I don't see Gnoll. Unless they've already replaced the file in the last 20 - 30 minutes.
Side note interesting observation - Revenants will make decent Druids because they have boosts to both secondaries. O.o
I was referencing the fact that now you can be a +Dex race (Revenant) and mooch a an at-will from another class (Versatile Master) without being stuck with a +Cha/+Con race (Half-elf). It makes some of the multiclassing CharOp builds work better. A ranged Revenant (Half-elf) rogue who picks up Twin Strike to throw daggers is more efficient than a half-elf, for instance.
Now that I think of it - that's gonna be pretty odd at Paragon. If you take Versatile to make your Dilletante an At-Will, what does that mean for Dark Reaping, since you can only use one of the two per encounter? I would assume you'd now have both the at-will and Dark Reaping every encounter, but still ....
I noticed that one of the features of the Epic Destiny needs to be reworded; as is, it says you cannot be forced to reroll. My bastard players roll their dice until they get a decent number, so I force them to reroll once in front of the group and keep the result, in order to be fair. This feature needs to be amended so that it can't be used by obnoxious players to invalidate the right of DMs to force rerolls.
(They're good people most of the time...)
Kalashtar was the first thing i looked for, actually. Maybe they thought its presence in the Eberron book was still supposed to be a surprise at this point? They aren't officially announced so they don't get official support?
No Kalashtar Soul feat, no Changeling Soul feat, and no Gnoll Soul feat (the Gnoll PC article having been written by Keith Baker, the designer of Eberron)... Maybe Matthew Sernett (sic?) doesn't like the guy!
Oddly enough, the Warforged Soul feat references a page in EPG, but the Shadar-Kai Soul feat references the MM entry rather than the Dragon Magazine version. Weirder still, the Minotaur Soul feat doesn't grant access to the Minotaur encounter power, nor does it mention where the Minotaur race can be found (neither Dragon Magazine nor the distantly-upcoming PH3, though perhaps that's why the feat doesn't grant the Minotaur encounter power...).
Weirder still, the Minotaur Soul feat doesn't grant access to the Minotaur encounter power, nor does it mention where the Minotaur race can be found (neither Dragon Magazine nor the distantly-upcoming PH3, though perhaps that's why the feat doesn't grant the Minotaur encounter power...).
Probably because the minotaur racial is getting re-written to be friendlier to other classes that don't charge. Didn't the Dragon minotaur racial feature grant you a melee basic? This one is just a basic. Maybe this a reflection of the new minotaur direction.
No Kalashtar Soul feat, no Changeling Soul feat, and no Gnoll Soul feat (the Gnoll PC article having been written by Keith Baker, the designer of Eberron)... Maybe Matthew Sernett (sic?) doesn't like the guy!
Oddly enough, the Warforged Soul feat references a page in EPG, but the Shadar-Kai Soul feat references the MM entry rather than the Dragon Magazine version. Weirder still, the Minotaur Soul feat doesn't grant access to the Minotaur encounter power, nor does it mention where the Minotaur race can be found (neither Dragon Magazine nor the distantly-upcoming PH3, though perhaps that's why the feat doesn't grant the Minotaur encounter power...).
Actually, an interesting observation about the Minotaur feat - every other soul feat grants you one of the other race's racial abilities. The Minotaur feat basically grants you their Ferocity ability. However, the Minotaur ability, as written in the Dragon article and MM, only applies to Melee basics. The Feat however makes no distinction between Melee and Ranged basics.
Now, that could just be that the writer wanted to make it useable for both melee and ranged classes. But I'm really really really hoping it means that WotC realizes their mistake in designing the Minotaur, and that the PHB3 version will also have their Ferocity ability re-written to apply to Melee or Ranged.
Probably because the minotaur racial is getting re-written to be friendlier to other classes that don't charge. Didn't the Dragon minotaur racial feature grant you a melee basic? This one is just a basic. Maybe this a reflection of the new minotaur direction.
That's what I'm hoping. *crosses fingers*
All the other Souls grant access to racial feats that modify racial powers- but all the gnoll's fun racial feats have nothing to do with Ferocious Charge. I can have a gnoll-soul Revanant carrion eater who can throw his voice and have a +5 to scent-based skill checks, though... And with claws!
Anyway, just house-rule it if you want it ;)
Also, was there ever anything official that said that they were trying to play up the Revenant + Assassin angle? As far as I know they've only been mentioned together in that they're both exclusive. (Keeping this in here though I was reading while typing it up and found the favored classes of the race , guess I'm wondering if the stats line up by design or if it just happened.)
And just so CM's (un)happy, I will say that I would have liked a Deva Soul feat. I completely understand that in their standard set up it seems that all of the soul goes on into the new host body, and thus there would be nothing dead to bring back. However, I had been thinking of 'what if there still was a part of the deva that passed on?' and more importantly, 'what happens if that dead part comes back, and what happens when the revenant meets the deva he's linked to?' I've actually got a friend who I've talked to about this, and we've been thinking it would be fun to have two characters in a campaign be this particular duo.
The con/dex thing makes me think that maybe there will eventually be a class that supports both of these stats.
Why does it make you think that?
That's very illogical of you. A race's ability score boosts should not be based around what classes the race should be good at but by what ability score boosts actually make sense for the race.
Then again, they keep insisting on making classes that are built to use certain ability score just so that certain races will excel at them, so whatever. (I'm looking at the CON-using Bard for Half-Elf and the STR-using Sorcerer for Dragonborn...)
Mildly surprised at the +Dex instead of +Int, but makes sense since they want it to complement the Assassin class.
Agreed. DEX still seems an odd choice to me, of all the stats revenants could have had DEX was the last one I would have even given consideration.
Actually having thought about it somewhat since the article's release, I think giving revenants a pair of fixed ability bonus was the wrong way to go. Like humans they should probably have been a choose any 1 stat race. I think it would have interacted nicely with their variable racial heritage.
I had thought the Retvenger was the whole reason this class was being made.
And just so CM's (un)happy, I will say that I would have liked a Deva Soul feat. I completely understand that in their standard set up it seems that all of the soul goes on into the new host body, and thus there would be nothing dead to bring back. However, I had been thinking of 'what if there still was a part of the deva that passed on?' and more importantly, 'what happens if that dead part comes back, and what happens when the revenant meets the deva he's linked to?' I've actually got a friend who I've talked to about this, and we've been thinking it would be fun to have two characters in a campaign be this particular duo.
Easy enough to houserule.
Deva Soul
Prerequisites: Deva, revenant
Benefit: You gain the memory of a thousand lifetimes deva
racial power (Player’s Handbook 2, page 8). In a given
encounter, you can use either your memory of a thousand
lifetimes racial power or your dark reaping racial power.
Their stats are so lame; they don't make good Divine characters which I would think is more likely being created by a god for a purpose. If only they had +Con & +Int; they would be great Hellocks, Godlocks, Conjurers, Swordmages, Retvenger and they would be pretty good for Invokers.
I had thought the Retvenger was the whole reason this class was being made.
You wanted an undead that could be easily made into a divine class? So, they would deal both radiant AND necrotic damage with near-impunity.Still, I could see someone making a pursuing avenger or a wrathful invoker of the Raven Queen, easily.
Kalashtar was the first thing i looked for, actually. Maybe they thought its presence in the Eberron book was still supposed to be a surprise at this point? They aren't officially announced so they don't get official support?
I don't think this would make much sense, honestly. The Kalashtar's racial physiology and abilities are a result of the diffuse presence of a quori spirit.
The idea of that portion of the quori spirit being likewise reborn/bound as a revenant just doesn't sit well with me. That's just my opinion naturally, and it could work, of course. I just don't like it. It doesn't sit well with previous Kalashtar lore, as I see it.
As to gnoll revenants: How bad ass would such a revenant look if it still had a gnoll-like appearance? A gnoll with "scaly" forearms, pitch-black eyes, etc... That sounds pretty intimidating.
I think I'm kind of "meh" on the whole Revenant thing. I'd hoped for something different, I guess. I'm not sure for what I'd hoped, really. I do wish the ability modifiers had been different.
And just so CM's (un)happy, I will say that I would have liked a Deva Soul feat. I completely understand that in their standard set up it seems that all of the soul goes on into the new host body, and thus there would be nothing dead to bring back. However, I had been thinking of 'what if there still was a part of the deva that passed on?' and more importantly, 'what happens if that dead part comes back, and what happens when the revenant meets the deva he's linked to?' I've actually got a friend who I've talked to about this, and we've been thinking it would be fun to have two characters in a campaign be this particular duo.
As Haplo81 says (and has done), at least it's easily included as a houserule, should you wish. ;)
As a living race, they can then take the 'Deva Heritage' series of feats.
Also, as it came up in the chat last night, your living revenant can take the vampiric heritage feat.\
DOUBLE UNDEAD
DOUBLE THE PLEASURE
But srsly, it makes for an amusing concept.
X years ago an evil wizard tried to rip apart the world sacraficing every living being to orcus at once...in doing so elavating him to godhood. a group of 3 Heros with a small band of angles helping stoped him...
now advance to today where 2 revrants, and 2 Devas (both with forgotton life background) wake up at the same moment... 3 of them are the heros 1 is the villan...none of them remember who is who...
I am already calling it the D&D odd couple.
You can choose whatever race you want, as long as you can justify having it (Deva seems to be the toughest to justify). Just because there's no feats for a given race doesn't mean they're not an option. In fact, it could be seen later as more PC races are published/new ideas come up for the ones that already have a feat.
You also get to choose PPs and other feats available to those races, so you could give your Revenant Gnoll the Claw Fighter feat, for example.
some of my players already have an idea for a 'group' of adventures...
X years ago an evil wizard tried to rip apart the world sacraficing every living being to orcus at once...in doing so elavating him to godhood. a group of 3 Heros with a small band of angles helping stoped him...
now advance to today where 2 revrants, and 2 Devas (both with forgotton life background) wake up at the same moment... 3 of them are the heros 1 is the villan...none of them remember who is who...
I am already calling it the D&D odd couple.
This could work in a game with the right people. It would make a really cool short story or novel.
I'd point out, that, as per the article, by default Revenants are considered both living and undead.
As a living race, they can then take the 'Deva Heritage' series of feats.
Also, as it came up in the chat last night, your living revenant can take the vampiric heritage feat.\
DOUBLE UNDEAD
DOUBLE THE PLEASURE
But srsly, it makes for an amusing concept.
Yeah, this works. I don't think it's all that strange, either (within the context of DnD ;)), since the PC was/is not a Deva nor a Vampire, but merely touched/tainted by such an ancestry. A PC with a Deva Heritage feat strikes me as very similar to the 3E Aasimar.
Adding, yes I can see that it's easy to houserule. I guess I'm just reacting to CM's particular stance that seemed to say, "Deva revenants don't work, but people are going to be total idiots and think that it should." Hell, I'm not even sure if such a character would really be playing up his past life.
Adding, yes I can see that it's easy to houserule. I guess I'm just reacting to CM's particular stance that seemed to say, "Deva revenants don't work, but people are going to be total idiots and think that it should." Hell, I'm not even sure if such a character would really be playing up his past life.
Ooh, I just got a cool idea for a deva revenant. It's a deva who in his most recent life was a little too naughty and thus got reincarnated as a rakshasa, however, some small sliver of said deva remained pure and good and it is that soul-shard as it were that became a revenant. Now the character's only purpose in existing is to put a stop to the evil of his rakshasa half.
Ooh, I just got a cool idea for a deva revenant. It's a deva who in his most recent life was a little too naughty and thus got reincarnated as a rakshasa, however, some small sliver of said deva remained pure and good and it is that soul-shard as it were that became a revenant. Now the character's only purpose in existing is to put a stop to the evil of his rakshasa half.
Sir, you have been yoink'd.
Sir, you have been yoink'd.
Glad to hear it, as despite sounding like loads of fun it's probably nothing I'll ever get around to actually playing myself.
Ooh, I just got a cool idea for a deva revenant. It's a deva who in his most recent life was a little too naughty and thus got reincarnated as a rakshasa, however, some small sliver of said deva remained pure and good and it is that soul-shard as it were that became a revenant. Now the character's only purpose in existing is to put a stop to the evil of his rakshasa half.
Great idea....
Ooh, I just got a cool idea for a deva revenant. It's a deva who in his most recent life was a little too naughty and thus got reincarnated as a rakshasa, however, some small sliver of said deva remained pure and good and it is that soul-shard as it were that became a revenant. Now the character's only purpose in existing is to put a stop to the evil of his rakshasa half.
You're going to lose out on alot of Deva related feats. Some of the Deva feats require the Deva PC to have Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes for example. When you make a Revenant PC, you don't gain any of the past races special abilities or accesses, and there's no Deva Soul feat. Besides, don't Devas just get reborn/reincarnated when they die? The good ones come back as Devas and the bad ones come back as Raksashas.
Anyway, just my observation.
...and there's no Deva Soul feat...
Deva Soul
Prerequisites: Deva, revenant
Benefit: You gain the Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes deva racial
feature (Plaher's Hanbook 2, page:?) and its
associated powers. In a given encounter, you can use a
Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes power or your dark reaping racial power.
Done ;)
The Past Life Racial Feature doesn't mention any races that are barred from use. A race can be taken to qualify for other feats, paragon paths, etc. A human Revenant can take Action Surge, for example.
So, if you want a bullywug Revenant (I feel sorry for you, really I do), you can, and your DM can only really question your sanity.
Here was something I posted on another board relating to soul feats.
The Past Life Racial Feature doesn't mention any races that are barred from use. A race can be taken to qualify for other feats, paragon paths, etc. A human Revenant can take Action Surge, for example.
So, if you want a bullywug Revenant (I feel sorry for you, really I do), you can, and your DM can only really question your sanity.
Bullywugs always make me think of The Erevis Cale Trilogy, since that's the only place I've encountered them outside of Monster Manuals. I'm pretty sure the author, Paul Kemp, would share your pity for such a player.
I wonder what pressing matters could bring a Bullywug back from beyond the grave...?
Bullywugs always make me think of The Erevis Cale Trilogy, since that's the only place I've encountered them outside of Monster Manuals. I'm pretty sure the author, Paul Kemp, would share your pity for such a player.
I wonder what pressing matters could bring a Bullywug back from beyond the grave...?
Skin moisturizer drought.
Deva Soul
Prerequisites: Deva, revenant
Benefit: You gain the Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes deva racial
feature (Plaher's Hanbook 2, page:?) and its
associated powers. In a given encounter, you can use a
Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes power or your dark reaping racial power.
Done ;)
You're joking right?
You're joking right?
Why? It's no stronger than the other "X Soul" feats.
You're joking right?
Kinda... I just thought that it was a cool character concept, and there are no rules against a Deva Revenant besides not having a "Deva Soul" feat (which you seemed to put as an excuse)
And actually it's the same as other soul feats so, why not??
Fluff, mostly. Deva souls don't go to the Ravin Queen, they are recycled directly by the Primal Spirits.
Fluff can be played with (link).
Fluff, mostly. Deva souls don't go to the Ravin Queen, they are recycled directly by the Primal Spirits.
They are planty of explanations as to why it could happen though. Remember Revenants aren't exactly common, and a Deva Revenant would be an even rarer occasion.
Personally I was thinking that a good explanation for a Deva Revenant would be a Deva that was killed in the middle of transcending. He completed the rites required to be freed from the cycle of rebirth, but the Deva was still bound to the world. Thus the Deva's soul wanders trapped in an incarnate state until it comes accross the Raven Queen or one of her agents who make a deal with it to grant it flesh once more so that it might finish transcending in exchange for service for a few years.
Alternatively, a Deva Revenant could be explained as a Deva who was reincarnated at a corrupted location. And I'm sure I could think of plenty more explanations for such a Revenant.