Dragonlance: knight of Solamnia, kender, Irda, (gully dwarfs, centaur and/or minotaur?).
Dark Sun: Arthasian gladiator and templar, mul, thri-ken..
Player handbook III: ki, elemental and psionic class. psionic and oriental races
1001 nights (al-quadim) player handbook: Sha´ir.
Player handbook IV: shadow power, kobolds, shadar-kai, goblings, gnolls..
Ravenloft: Dread necromancer, half-vistani, dhampire (vampire-touched)
Defilers and templars could be a new power soucer.
I think it´s possible a Players Handbook of Faerun II and III, for al-Qadim and Kara-tur.
Mystara, Spelljammer, Planescape, Greyhawk and Birthright? I don´t know. Perhaps some articles from Dragon/Dungeon Magazine....(and later in printed annual compedium).
This may include Illusionist and Necromancer for shadow classes, Monk and another ki-based class (maybe Samurai as a Defender) for ki, and four psionic classes.
I mean, we've got Spells for Arcane, Exploits for Martial, and Prayers for Divine; what will they use for Elemental, Ki, Primal, Psionic, and Shadow Power souces?
You know what I want to find out? What will they call the abilities for all these Power Sources?
I mean, we've got Spells for Arcane, Exploits for Martial, and Prayers for Divine; what will they use for Elemental, Ki, Primal, Psionic, and Shadow Power souces?
Elemental Invocations, Shadow Mysteries, Psionic Manifestations, Ki Techniques, Primal, uh, Emotions?
Arthasian gladiator wears less armour that usual fighter. Rebember there aren´t metalic armours in Arthas, because the metal is limited/scant, and the hot by sun...
And it'd still be just a subtrope of fighters because for the same reason fighters do not want to wear heavy armor in Athas either.
One thing about Athas is that if they re-do it I'll put good money on it that they will incorporate the Elemental power source into it heavily. If they do end up making Dark Sun as their 3rd campaign setting I expect PHB3 to have the Psionic, Elemental and Ki power sources and save the Shadow source for PHB4.
PHBIII will hopefully have some kind of aberration race.
Eberron Player's Guide: Doppelganger (Changeling), Warforged, and Artificer
We already know Artificer because of the play test.
True, Warforged have already been detailed in Dragon, but not every one goes online for RPG info so there need to be a printed write up for this setting iconic.
Kalishtar aren't a good option until we have Psionic classes. I expect Kalishtar to show up in whatever PHB gets the psionic power source (hopefully PHB3).
With Shifters in PHB2 and Kalishtar on hold, Changeling is the only other setting race left. Since the new Doppelganager is a perfectly playable race I expect them to get the slot.
I would like the goblings like PC race. They are like the "ugly duckling" of D&D. Why not a goblinoid race like the dark version from tinker gnomes from Dragonlance?
The jerren, the evil version of hanfling, and the Vashard, from the book of vile darkness aren´t well spent. Derro, the psycopath dwarfs, are too crazy to be a viable comunity.
I wish a centaur PC race, perhaps with a background like of TV serie "Hercules: the legendary journeys" (with Kevin Sorbo), but I imagine them like sheperds and people from the meadow. They are too big for dense forests.
A new race could be the pygmies.
Elemental Invocations, Shadow Mysteries, Psionic Manifestations, Ki Techniques, Primal, uh, Emotions?
Primal = Invocations
Psionic will most likely be manifestations
Ki will probably be technique or style.
and i have no guess for elemental or shadow
Invocations are what the Warlock used to have. Evocation are what the blaster wizards were specialized in. Why is confusion between the two happening so often now?
You mean Primal = Evocations.
Invocations are what the Warlock used to have. Evocation are what the blaster wizards were specialized in. Why is confusion between the two happening so often now?
3.5: Evocer class (wizard), with an alternate group of powers called Invocations
4e: Invocer class, with Primal Powers called Evocations.
That, I believe, where the confusion lies.
Primal = Invocations
Psionic will most likely be manifestations
Ki will probably be technique or style.
and i have no guess for elemental or shadow
Yep, although it hadn't been confirmed at the time of that post.
Looking at it now... Psionic is probably manifestations. Powers would be perfect, but too redundant -- "The psion's powers are called powers!... What? No **** eh?" I wouldn't be surprised if they chose a different name, though, because 'manifestation' has entirely too many syllables.
Shadow is definitely mysteries. The Shadowcaster from 3.5e Tome of Magic used mysteries and would make the best base for the 4e shadow power source, at least mechanically. Not that I expect it to be reprinted. I expect it to be dissected, taken apart and distributed amongs the more core-friendly shadow classes, like Illusionist, Necromancer, Assassin, and Blackguard so each of them gets a piece of how the Shadowcaster functions, but interpreted in their own unique way.
Ki could be techniques, but I would honestly hope for forms or even shapes. I know, "Ki Shapes" sounds strange, but think about it -- by arranging your inner ki into a different shapes, you unlock powerful abilities you didn't have in other shapes. This one largely depends on what exactly WotC decides to do with the ki source, though -- if it's just an AZN catchall then techniques is most likely, but if they actually re-design it from the ground up I could see any number of different names.
Elemental is still a complete mystery to me. The elemental source depends on WotC's ability to separate it from the arcane source, and the best way in my shortsighted mind is to connect it more to the planes. Make elemental characters into channelers of certain elemental planes -- they can't necessarily control it or manipulate it like an arcanist can, but they know just how to open up a 'hole' to the elemental chaos right on top of their target so a big stinking rock falls onto him. Thus, I come to the term channels, which seems rough, and implies that the elementalist is secretly a television set, but fits the class. Summons work fine, too.
So,
Psionic Manifestations
Shadow Mysteries
Ki Forms, or Shapes, or Techniques
Elemental Channels or Summons
I could actually see Ki Forms happening. If Ki becomes something new its got what you've put forward. And Forms have a tendency of showing up in Martial Arts, so we've got a name that would really fit with a good selection of Ki possibilities.
The irony of it is it fits perfectly with Incarnum too as Incarnum characters "form" their soulmelds.
I keep on hoping for Kincarnum. I don't want to see Ki be an AZN trap!
Edit: Obviously, if they re-do Incarnum, it won't be using the meldshaping system and the classes would need to be completely re-interpreted to work in the 4e power system. But the concept would remain -- the Incarnum (or Kincarnum) classes would be able to shape their souls into real, physical objects to protect them and serve them. Daily powers would be similar to rages in that the power does X but then leaves a static benefit behind to represent the piece of equipment you formed. And I also recognize that not all of the Incarnum classes will be reprinted. The Totemist most certainly won't be, and of the Incarnate and Soulborn I see only one actual class as a mix between the two, most likely a Defender. But I still hope the concept is recycled and reimagined in this new edition.
To Forms.
My prediction...
Eberron Player's Guide: Doppelganger (Changeling), Warforged, and Artificer
We already know Artificer because of the play test.
True, Warforged have already been detailed in Dragon, but not every one goes online for RPG info so there need to be a printed write up for this setting iconic.
Kalishtar aren't a good option until we have Psionic classes. I expect Kalishtar to show up in whatever PHB gets the psionic power source (hopefully PHB3).
With Shifters in PHB2 and Kalishtar on hold, Changeling is the only other setting race left. Since the new Doppelganager is a perfectly playable race I expect them to get the slot.
I completely disagree about Kalashtar, for reasons that have been debated several times before across these forums. It's not that your point doesn't appear to make sense, (it does appear that way), but in my opinion it's built upon a flawed premise: that races need direct support from power sources.
Kalashtar are a Psionic-themed race; we both agree on this point. Where I disagree is in your assumption that anything will be missing from the Kalashtar race if it was released prior to the Psionic power source. The fact is, all racial abilities are RACIAL-based rather than power source-based; they just happen to replicate the themes of certain power sources. The reality is that Kalashtar characters don't need access to the Psionic power source any more than Genasi need access to the Elemental power source.
Beyond this, it's already been confirmed that the Kalashtar PC race is being developed for release at some point next year; we just don't know in which product. As you suggested, we can expect each of the four Eberron races to be given this treatment shortly; we know Shifters will get it in PH2, Warforged have already received it in Dragon (and we're all expecting them to be updated in the Eberron Player's Guide). Of the two remaining, Doppelganger and Kalashtar, ask yourself which one is more unique to the Eberron setting? Which one is more likely to see publication in the (relatively generic-themed) Player's Handbook series? Doppelgangers are a much more universal fantasy archetype; in fact, they were at one time strongly speculated for inclusion in PH2, and plenty of us are still expecting them to be released fairly soon. Kalashtar, OTOH, are basically unique to the Eberron setting; why would they preempt a setting-specific race from a setting-specific book in favour of a more generic race? That doesn't make sense.
I completely disagree about Kalashtar, for reasons that have been debated several times before across these forums. It's not that your point doesn't appear to make sense, (it does appear that way), but in my opinion it's built upon a flawed premise: that races need direct support from power sources.
It's not so much that I think Kalashtar require the Psionic power source, more so that I believe that the race and power source are sufficiently intertwined that releasing them together makes more sense than doing so separately.
Beyond this, it's already been confirmed that the Kalashtar PC race is being developed for release at some point next year; we just don't know in which product. As you suggested, we can expect each of the four Eberron races to be given this treatment shortly; we know Shifters will get it in PH2, Warforged have already received it in Dragon (and we're all expecting them to be updated in the Eberron Player's Guide). Of the two remaining, Doppelganger and Kalashtar, ask yourself which one is more unique to the Eberron setting? Which one is more likely to see publication in the (relatively generic-themed) Player's Handbook series? Doppelgangers are a much more universal fantasy archetype; in fact, they were at one time strongly speculated for inclusion in PH2, and plenty of us are still expecting them to be released fairly soon. Kalashtar, OTOH, are basically unique to the Eberron setting; why would they preempt a setting-specific race from a setting-specific book in favour of a more generic race? That doesn't make sense.
I had not heard about Kalashtar being a confirmed race for 2009. If true than the EPG would seem to be the only place they could be printed in that time frame, unless they are being planed as a Dragon article, but EPG seems much more likely.
As for which is more generic fantasy, I agree that a shape shifting humanoid race (doppleganger) fits the bill. However, with the upcoming Manual of the Planes featuring the plane of dreams and what looks to me like a variety of Quari on the cover, it might seem as though aspects of the Kalashtar's background are being adapted to the currant 4e default setting. At which point, since Kalashtar are a very Psionicly themed race, it seems to me a far better choice to release them along side the power source. While the Doppleganger, who has little to no ties to a particular power source should be in the EPG.
However, with the upcoming Manual of the Planes featuring the plane of dreams and what looks to me like a variety of Quari on the cover,
The MoP cover is a reference to the 1e MoP cover which had an Astral Dreadnaught on it. Which predates the Quori by several decades I'm afraid.
I had not heard about Kalashtar being a confirmed race for 2009.
That's because that hasn't been confirmed. It is confirmed that they are being worked on.....and that is about it.
Anyway, I'd kinda like to see Dvati make a come back into the race fold. They were really peculiar but I liked them, and the way 4e works I think they could be balanced out alot better.
Eberron:
Classes:
Artificer (Arcane Leader),
Dragonmarked (multiclass-only class, like the spellscar from FR)
Races:
Warforged
Kalashtar
PHB3:
Classes:
Monk (Ki Striker)
Samurai (Ki Defender)
Illusionist (Shadow Controller)
Necromancer (Shadow Leader)
Empath (Psionic Leader)
Telepath (Psionic Controller)
Soulblade (Psionic Striker)
Psychic Warrior (Psionic Defender, name may change)
Races:
Doppleganger
Shadar-Kai
Githzerai
Githyanki
Centaur
Elan/Dromite/some other psionic race
Undead race (Dhampir?)
Power types:
Known: Martial(Exploits), Divine(Prayers), Arcane(Spells), Primal(Evocations)
Speculative: Psionic(Talents), Shadow(Mysteries/Hexes), Ki(Techniques/Jutsu), Elemental(Incantations)
Psy Warrior should be MindGuard (defender)
Dvati?
It's a race from a dragon mag in 3.5. Basically they're soul-bound twins, a creature that has one soul inhabiting two bodies.
It's a race from a dragon mag in 3.5. Basically they're soul-bound twins, a creature that has one soul inhabiting two bodies.
Each body has one half the HP of a regular character, they share classes/feats etc. Great as rogues, flank with each other and have twice the SA going off. Course it made them even more of a glass cannon...if one of them dies, the other one slowly does too.
As to Kalashtar needing the psionic power source, well, that is facetious reasoning - if you go with that then we shouldn't have Illithid in the Monster Manual, because they have a psionic theme. Also note that if you know about the Kalashtar the Cleric works well for them since there is the religion of Il-Yannah, or the path of light in Eberron.
Dopplegangers, well, I'm expecting them in PHB3 with the psionic source. They have the most setting neutral fluff, and, the reason I'm thinking with a slight psionic bent is that the changeling and doppleganger were merged, and dopplegangers in the past I believe could read thoughts and mimic a specific individual, something that would be perfect for the race using a class like the telepath or the empath, not to mention a paragon path or feats that enhance this. Though a shadow type class based on sneaking and such could work for them as well.
Personally, I'm hoping Dromites come back, for some reason I really like these bug men - they remind be of an old toy from the 80's I used to love, Sectaurs. I'd also like to see Thri-Kreen come back, and if my gut feeling of Dark Sun for 2010 is true, then maybe the Mul. Other psionic races that could make a reappearance are the Githyanki and Githzerai.
Shadar-Kai are almost a shoe in if there is to be a shadow power source in PHB3.
Also with the Shadow power source theme, I almost expect there to be a kind of undead/undying player race - Life's a Lich and then you never die, and all that. Especially if the Necromancer is to make an appearance. I really want to play a deadite.
What I'd also like to see are, instead of different types of winged elves, aquatic elves or other variations of races, to make they unique. Avarial, the winged elves for instance, could be combined with the raptoran race, though Aaracokra would be nice to see for Darksun instead. Sea elves, should not look like elves, but maybe something like Abe Sapian from Hellboy - that is something I would play, rather than a race looking like Aquaman or Namor.
That's about all I have for now.
-Half-Giant
-Kalashtar
-Mul
-Thri-Kreen
Classes:
-Ardent = Psionic Defender
-Empath = Psionic Leader
-Hexblade = Shadow Defender
-Illusionist = Shadow Controller
-Incarnate = Ki Leader
-Monk = Ki Striker
-Necromancer – Shadow Leader
-Ninja = Shadow Striker
-Shaper = Psionic Controller
-Sohei = Ki Defender
-Wu-Jen = Elemental Controller
Sciencies could be the daily power, and devotions the encounter power.
I rebember the names of psi power from 2nd ed were devotions and sciences.
Sciencies could be the daily power, and devotions the encounter power.
I think Sciences would be too sci-fi, and Devotions too religious/divine implying.
...
Classes:
-Ardent = Psionic Defender
-Empath = Psionic Leader
-Hexblade = Shadow Defender
-Illusionist = Shadow Controller
-Incarnate = Ki Leader
-Monk = Ki Striker
-Necromancer – Shadow Leader
-Ninja = Shadow Striker
-Shaper = Psionic Controller
-Sohei = Ki Defender
-Wu-Jen = Elemental Controller
I like your class list! It's smart and progressive. I hope things turn out something like that.
Races:
-Half-Giant
-Kalashtar
-Mul
-Thri-Kreen
Fold Half-Giants into Goliath, please.
Am I the only one who wants to see aasimars again?
Nope, I can't wait for Devas either!
It just makes plain sense to me. A lot of the Eberron races are going to the PHB's, and that's fine with me; I love Eberron.
I cannot possibly imagine why Warforged would be in a PHB, but I can see why they would get an entry in the Eberron book, esp. after the Drow and Genasi got both a DDI article and a spot in the FRPG.
I think that Shadar-Kai will appear in the PHB with the Shadow power source, and think that the Gith-races will appear in the PHB with the Psi power source.
As for Half-Giants and Elans, I'd prefer have Goliaths and Kalashtar. I am kind of glad to see deurger go away, or at least become less prevalent, and don't care if they come back. I never knew much about Xephs or Dromites, and I don't care what happens to them. As for Thri-Kreen, I think that they would make a nice race for the Dark Sun book.
I think that like Diva and Tieflings, Kalashtar will become a new PHB race, with special fluff for them depending on their world. Tieflings are mutated humans, Divas are ever-reincarnated, and Kalashtar have two souls (one of which ties them to the Plane of Dreams). Tieflings favor the Arcane power source, Diva will favor the Divine source, and Kalashtar will be natural Psi users.
Deva. /day-va/. Not "diva". D-E-V-A. Mispronouncing and misspelling this word really doesn't help the arguments against those ignorant folk who will insist, "Diva [sic] are proof that WotC just wants us all to be Celine Dion fans! hur hur hur...."
I also think you're oversimplifying; each of those races has flavour which resembles a power source, but there's no inherent connection between them. Since Tiefling is the only one of those three of which we have any information, I'll use it as an example: Mechanically speaking, Tieflings are no more "Arcane" than any other race. Tiefling flavour does suggest that Tieflings commonly become Infernal Pact Warlocks, and their stat bonuses can make them into very competent Wizards, Warlocks, and Swordmages, but OTOH Humans, Eladrin, Half-Elves, and Gnomes all do too. Tieflings also make very good Warlords, a Martial Class. Finally, there's absolutely nothing in the Player's Handbook that suggests either that Tieflings are penalized for not taking an Arcane class, nor that Arcane characters are penalized for not being Tiefling.
It just makes plain sense to me. A lot of the Eberron races are going to the PHB's, and that's fine with me; I love Eberron.
I love Eberron too!
But technically, the only Eberron race currently confirmed for PH publication is the Shifter in PH2. That said, Doppelganger is a strong contender. I don't personally feel it's wise to hold your breath for Kalashtar in a PH, though.I cannot possibly imagine why Warforged would be in a PHB, but I can see why they would get an entry in the Eberron book, esp. after the Drow and Genasi got both a DDI article and a spot in the FRPG.
Who said that Warforged were going to be in a PH?
And technically, IIRC, Drow and Genasi didn't actually get a DDI article, they got a preview in a RPGA publication.But you're right, Wiz: Warforged belong in the Eberron Player's Guide! They're probably the most iconic thing about Eberron! I fully expect that they will be updated and revised from the DDI article, as well.* As for Drow, well, they're still pretty iconic to FR, but they've become so popular over the years that I think it's just a matter of time before some edition presents them in an actual Player's Handbook as a player race. Who knows, maybe Warforged too, someday.
(*For anyone thinking of arguing against that, consider that they appeared on DDI the very day that 4E was released. Was this intended to be "Subscriber-only content?" Not a chance! First of all, that was a "Free Preview" issue, still free for download. Second, I believe it was done primarily to keep from alienating Eberron fans, who wouldn't otherwise be seeing their living-construct darlings until mid-2009.)
I think that Shadar-Kai will appear in the PHB with the Shadow power source, and think that the Gith-races will appear in the PHB with the Psi power source.
I think you're probably right about these.
As for Half-Giants and Elans, I'd prefer have Goliaths and Kalashtar. I am kind of glad to see deurger go away, or at least become less prevalent, and don't care if they come back. I never knew much about Xephs or Dromites, and I don't care what happens to them. As for Thri-Kreen, I think that they would make a nice race for the Dark Sun book.
I agree with you about Half-Giants and Goliaths: make them just Goliaths. As for Elan/Kalashtar, about the only thing I know about Elan is that it's also the name of a major OotS character, so I can't say much.
I apologize if I come across a little bit hostile earlier in this post, Wiz. I suppose I'm just getting frustrated by how often I feel like somebody needs to be corrected about the nature of relationship between "race" and "power source". It always seems to come up regarding Kalashtar, and with ridiculous reasons why somebody thinks they won't be in the EPG. Then again, I could be wrong, and maybe they won't be there; but I strongly doubt it.
Eberron: artificer, warforged and kalasthar.
Dragonlance: knight of Solamnia, kender, Irda, (gully dwarfs, centaur and/or minotaur?).
Dark Sun: Arthasian gladiator and templar, mul, thri-ken..
Player handbook III: ki, elemental and psionic class. psionic and oriental races
1001 nights (al-quadim) player handbook: Sha´ir.
Player handbook IV: shadow power, kobolds, shadar-kai, goblings, gnolls..
Ravenloft: Dread necromancer, half-vistani, dhampire (vampire-touched)
first off ki=/= asian
and for psionic races no psionic elf complex (elans,Maenads this means you) id like to see dromites, githy/githz, half-giants.Eberron: artificer, warforged and kalasthar.
Dragonlance: knight of Solamnia, kender, Irda, (gully dwarfs, centaur and/or minotaur?).
Dark Sun: Arthasian gladiator and templar, mul, thri-ken..
Player handbook III: ki, elemental and psionic class. psionic and oriental races
1001 nights (al-quadim) player handbook: Sha´ir.
Player handbook IV: shadow power, kobolds, shadar-kai, goblings, gnolls..
Ravenloft: Dread necromancer, half-vistani, dhampire (vampire-touched)
first off ki=/= asian
and for psionic races no psionic elf complex (elans,Maenads this means you) id like to see dromites, githy/githz, half-giants. edit
Ki powers could be called "Focus."
Anyway, I'd kinda like to see Dvati make a come back into the race fold. They were really peculiar but I liked them, and the way 4e works I think they could be balanced out alot better.
i prefer the term katas to focus or forms
Am I the only one who wants to see aasimars again?
Nope, I wnt them back too!
Not that they'll wait until then to give the Warforged their day in the sun, but it should still be considered.
Am I the only one who wants to see aasimars again?
There are plenty of us, including me, who are looking forward to seeing the aasimars return under their new name, deva.
But if you prefer that they were still called 'aasimar', well then ... you may indeed be the only one.
Whilst everyone is lumping the Warforged into Ebberon's Guide, and conjecture tossed towards minotaurs and other various Monster Manual Race Trait entries being in a handbook, one must remember the Dragon Annual, Scheduled to be released next September; it's even listed as being a hardback book. I'd expect this product to hold a goodly amount of the "extras" contained within the current digital issues of Dragon.
Not that they'll wait until then to give the Warforged their day in the sun, but it should still be considered.
Valid point, Kalnaur.
Whilst everyone is lumping the Warforged into Ebberon's Guide, and conjecture tossed towards minotaurs and other various Monster Manual Race Trait entries being in a handbook, one must remember the Dragon Annual, Scheduled to be released next September; it's even listed as being a hardback book. I'd expect this product to hold a goodly amount of the "extras" contained within the current digital issues of Dragon.
Not that they'll wait until then to give the Warforged their day in the sun, but it should still be considered.
Races and Classes will not be among them. It has been stated before and I must state it again, the only place for Published new races and classes are the setting player guides and Player Hand Books. You may see racial feats, PP, ED, powers and such, but no new classes or races. It will be "optional material" like DDi is supposed to be.
Any race/class within DDi is going to be in a players book in the future.
I expect ki and elemental power soucer will be in a book (with psi). Shadow can wait.
Psi has a lot of linkend races..(2011, year of Dark Sun?), but Ki and elemental have their races from Oriental Adventures..(and magic of incarnum).
If I have to choose only five races for PH III... I don´t know.
I think 2012 will be the year of return of Ravenloft, and shadow and shadar-kai will be in PH V.
I like the name "crusader" fro a class but it has to be different to cleric, paladin, and knight.
[snip]
Its all good. I think that your opinions are valid and well founded, so I'm not bothered.
In regards to the race and power source thing, I was simply noting their particular affinity for those power sources, and the fact that their flavor was appropriately intertwined with that source, not that I feel that there should be a "human" race of ever power source. (Though, I should say that from what I have seen, I think this could be done tastefully... but only if symmetry was not the main goal.)
Anyway, the Genasi and Drow DID have articles besides the FR previews. Children of Darkness and Ecology of the Genasi are both free DDI articles which have content similar-yet-different from the FRPG content on the Genasi and Drow...
About Warforged: Nobody hinted they would be in a PHB besides the people in speculation threads like this. I likewise don't think that Drow and Genasi will see a PHB entry. Instead of a Shifter in the PHB, though, I would really rather see a Doppelganger (though, that might better fit the theme of a later PHB though.) But then again, if Kalashtar and Warforged are in the EPG, then thats two races like the FRPG.
Its all good. I think that your opinions are valid and well founded, so I'm not bothered.
In regards to the race and power source thing, I was simply noting their particular affinity for those power sources, and the fact that their flavor was appropriately intertwined with that source, not that I feel that there should be a "human" race of ever power source. (Though, I should say that from what I have seen, I think this could be done tastefully... but only if symmetry was not the main goal.)
Anyway, the Genasi and Drow DID have articles besides the FR previews. Children of Darkness and Ecology of the Genasi are both free DDI articles which have content similar-yet-different from the FRPG content on the Genasi and Drow...
About Warforged: Nobody hinted they would be in a PHB besides the people in speculation threads like this. I likewise don't think that Drow and Genasi will see a PHB entry. Instead of a Shifter in the PHB, though, I would really rather see a Doppelganger (though, that might better fit the theme of a later PHB though.) But then again, if Kalashtar and Warforged are in the EPG, then thats two races like the FRPG.
I can agree with all of this, Wiz.
(2011, year of Dark Sun?)
2010 shall be the year of the Dark Sun. And of psionics, unless WotC has lost it's mind. Also, following the current pattern with PHBs we will run out of the currently planned power sources at 2011 with PHB4. Not to say they won't print more PHBs, just that they'll either need to make more power sources or revisit previous power sources.
Similarly, I hope that Half-Giants of Dark Sun are rolled into Goliaths, and that Elans and Kalashtar (essentially both psychic, modified humans) are rolled into one (somehow).
I, for one, hope that if a Dragonlance setting does come out for 4e, that Halflings and Dragonborn are reflavored to fit the setting, and that Kendar and Draconians are not made into new races.
Similarly, I hope that Half-Giants of Dark Sun are rolled into Goliaths, and that Elans and Kalashtar (essentially both psychic, modified humans) are rolled into one (somehow).
I agree with everything here... cept, Kender. Kender are unique enough to have a separate entry, even though they were the "halfling" of the setting. I see them as a mix between the Halfling and the Gnome. I also seem to remember that the Kender had a background in elven ancestry while the halfling was from human, or something else, I can't remember.
Kender are cool.
I also hope that they reimagin the kalashar (keep the name and most of fluff) by having them track down and kill the elan...and take their stuff.
A nat psionic race of off breed humans that longagon went through a rituel to bind things to them...they are abbarent PC ageless races...elan negate damage as an encounter power...+2 Int +2 something or other...and a bunch of cool psi raceil feats....
I agree with everything here... cept, Kender. Kender are unique enough to have a separate entry, even though they were the "halfling" of the setting. I see them as a mix between the Halfling and the Gnome. I also seem to remember that the Kender had a background in elven ancestry while the halfling was from human, or something else, I can't remember.
Kender are cool.
Well, sure. Kender may be different biologicly and in mannerism, they are likely to be similar enough to constitute using the same race, but adding a racial feat for characters who really wanted to show that they were Kender as opposed to just a halfling. It worked with the FR's verieties of elves, and I think it could work for Kender.
For example, maybe a bad example since I am not really familiar with Dragonlance besides the first chapters of the 3.0 supplement, but the Kender could use *looks at stat block*
... Okay, the only halfling things that could really be twisted to work for Kendar are their ability scores, racial skill bonuses, and Second Chance (reflavored so that instead of luck or skill, ADD saves them). Okay, yeah, we need a Kender race, as much as I hate to say it.
---
I thought a reboot, reset or remake of official setting, but the novels are canon....and the idea of forgotting all books isn´t nice.
A option is a "uchrony" or alternative timeline. The time travel is possible in D&D mitology...what if a crononaut (time traveler) changed the past?
Player's Handbook III: Psi and Shadow Heroes
Races:
- Doppelganger
- Githyanki
- Githzerai
- Shadar-Kai
- [Maybe one or two other races]
Player's Handbook IV: Elemental and Ki Heroes
Races:
- ???????????????????????
Necromancer are cool, but the shadow souce power ( I don´t like)...
I wonder if truename and bond (from tome of magic) will be the furure power souces.
I'm betting on either all three, or Doppleganger and Kalashtar myself.
Dopplegangers are almost certainly going to be in the Eberron PHB. It's either going to have 3 races, or one of Warforged or Kalashtar is going to be cut, Warforged since they already have a full write-up, or Kalashtar to be saved for the Psionic PHB.
I'm betting on either all three, or Doppleganger and Kalashtar myself.
I think Warforged and Kalashtar for EPG, and Doppleganger for some PHB. Reason being that Dopplegangers exist in other campaign settings, and Eberron gave birth to Warforged and Kalashtar. Eberron also gave birth to Changelings, but Changelings ate Dopplegangers and took their stuff.
Doppleganger for PH III?
Doppleganger for PH III?
That's what I think. :D
It's possible the Doppleganger will instead be in Dragon around the time the EPHB comes out, which is what I expect to happen with the Orc and PHB2. But I fully expect it to be in the EPHB.
I really think that if anyone's cut, it's going to be the Warforged, because they're already in Dragon, free. I don't buy any of the arguments against the Dragon article counting.
the only reason to my mind is that the psionics can take up a whole book themselves, as most others can take up a portional
you know the psions could in up in a Players guide to the Mind splatbook.
the only reason to my mind is that the psionics can take up a whole book themselves, as most others can take up a portional
Yeah you are right Martial, Arcane, and Divine can't take up a whole book. It really is a shame though. Can you imagine if they could though? We could end up with books like "Martial Power", "Arcane Power", or "Divine Power". And they would be 160 pages only on the topic of that power source! Too bad no power source except for psionics has that much material.
...but Kalasthar is a psi race, but there isn´t psi class yet. I´m afraid we have to wait until PH III to get psi races. (PH III will be a book with a lot of psi races, will it not?).
I think a book about al-Qadim favor is better with the name "1001 nights" that "Arabian adventures". D&D tries to avoid names from real world..
PH III psi + shadow, and PH IV ki + elemental?
Dark Sun is a setting with a lot of special rules (magic, armour, money...). I think it will need a lot of playtesting.
* I have a new hypothesis. The return of green campaings books from 2nd AD&D edition .. They will be books for d20 Modern (do you rebember d20 Past?), I suppose.
Dopplegangers are perfect for stories about intrige and espionage, but D&D 4th Ed is a game of battle of "miniatures", no "story-telling". "Doppies" are for infiltration, no for clobberin (combat)..
...but Kalasthar is a psi race, but there isn´t psi class yet. I´m afraid we have to wait until PH III to get psi races. (PH III will be a book with a lot of psi races, will it not?).
[snip]
PH III psi + shadow, and PH IV ki + elemental?
Dark Sun is a setting with a lot of special rules (magic, armour, money...). I think it will need a lot of playtesting.
[snip]
I disagree with your first statement. Firstly, 4e didn't remove any capability for espionage RP. Secondly, Dopplegangers are just fine in combat.
I also disagree with you statement about Kalashtar. Kalashtar, it has been said, will be made so that they are "psi" flavored, without depending on Psi classes. Therefore, if Eberron comes out before Psi, we can still expect to see the Kalashtar (unless they, like the Deva, are discribed in the PG, but not to be released in a later book. I, however, would find this to be a great shame).
I agree with your assessment that PH3=Psi+Shadow and PH4=Elemental+Ki.
Magic, Armor, and Money do not necessarily require new mechanics, they just require a fluff change. Call gold "ceramic," give a back story as to the nature of arcane magic, and.... Okay, armor needs some play testing.
Radical? Maybe. Here's the logic:
PHB2 contains Arcane, Divine, and Primal. The first two are showcased in PHB1. If they continue that pattern, then it is more than likely we'll see at least some power sources in multiple PHBs. As Arcane classes seem to be all the rage these days (so far, we've got Wizard, Warlock, and the Swordmage in books, with the Bard and artificer preview/playtests) and I'm sure that we'll see a few more divine classes in the near future.
It's a bad business plan to have multiple new power sources for two reasons: having a PHB with all new power sources exhausts those sources at an increased rate. It makes new sources something that's expected and that creates expectations, like the idea of filling the grid and leads to unoriginal classes (like the oft maligned samurai). In addition, some people outright will not play some sources. So,a book full of strange new classes is going to alienate those who only play "traditional" power sources.
I will say that of those three, Primal is the most likely to not show up, but I've got a good feeling that both martial and psionic will be represented. As for races, I do not want half-gaints folded into goliaths. As a Dark Sun fan, I would be a little miffed. As a Psionics fan, I can take or leave Elans. Kalashtar belong in Eberron. Dromites are a race I'd love to see again, as would Githzerai. I don't think that Githyanki really belong in a PHB. Dragon is a better home for them. They can be heroic, but 99% of the time they'll cut your cord (literally) and run. I think Thri-kreen would fit perfectly, being a martially inclined psionic race, thought the 4 arm thing is going to need some game balance. (Is that a range dual wielding greatswords, or is it just me?)
Okay, Rant over. TGB Out
I like PC races (but wildren from Planar Handbook) but the new races have a trouble, there isn´t background about it in the old settings (a example: dragonkins in FR, or avariels/winged elves in Greyhawk).
I definitely see limited flight as a paragon tier thing as that's where most "fly until the end of next turn" with a minor action sustain happens. And epic tier for full flight as there is at least a couple of magic items that allow full flight. I think that some races should be able to get flight at paragon tier, whether limited or not because of this.
As for particular races, I'm very sure that Githzerai will appear in whichever PHB has the Monk class. Simply because Githzerai and Monks go very well together.
Of course I'm still hoping that some future book will look at Orcs and Goblins and Kobolds as PC races (beyond an issue of Dragon), since to me they're more likely to be played then Gnolls or Minotaurs.
The reason I feel WotC will lump Psi and Shadow together is because they are both semi-traditional in D&D, and the love for one may foster love for the other, if obtained in the same package.
I do agree that having Ki and Elemental together in one PH might not have such great selling opportunity, but I know a lot of people (including myself) would look into it.
What is the picture on Martial Power page 13? There is a green skinned humanoid wielding what appears to be a pick? He has pointy ears and black hair, and there is a bunch of smoke around him, which I think is supposed to be coming from in front of him, not from his body or anything. Are there any green skinned PHB races? Is this guy an elf that ate something funny, or what?
That would be a Half-orc. Considering the soon release of PH2, I am not suprised that I am starting to see half-orc art.
(Smoke is scenery.)
It's a bad business plan to have multiple new power sources for two reasons: having a PHB with all new power sources exhausts those sources at an increased rate. It makes new sources something that's expected and that creates expectations, like the idea of filling the grid and leads to unoriginal classes (like the oft maligned samurai). In addition, some people outright will not play some sources. So,a book full of strange new classes is going to alienate those who only play "traditional" power sources.
I don't think we'll see any power sources beyond the eight we know already. For one thing, it's hard to think about what else could be covered without getting into overlapping archetypes. There might be a scientific power source for less traditional campaign worlds (including classes like the mad scientist and gunslinger), but that might be stretching a bit too far afield of the 'heroic fantasy' core of D&D.
Though, if one of the pre-existing power sources (martial, divine, arcane, or primal) is revisited in PHB3, what else can be done with them that hasn't been covered by another class? There might be a Martial Controller, perhaps, but we run into the symmetry problem again, and there aren't many strong archetypes that could fit there.
There might be a scientific power source for less traditional campaign worlds (including classes like the mad scientist and gunslinger), but that might be stretching a bit too far afield of the 'heroic fantasy' core of D&D.
I've given a technology power source a lot of thought, and really only a Mad Scientist as a controller is the strongest concept. Everything else can be covered mainly by the martial power source. Especially when you consider that a gunslinger is easily a Ranger or Rogue with Guns (rifles more for Rangers, Pistols more for Rogues), and a Infantry soldier is a fighter with some half decent ranged attack powers and a bunch of powers that rely on charging with a bayonet. A steam-powered armour specialist can simply be a swordmage with heavy armour. An officer is simply a Warlord who uses a pistol and a sabre.
I don't think we'll see any power sources beyond the eight we know already.
I thought so too, but that article about MP by Rob hints at possible power sources beyond the ones listed in the PHB.
My opinion is we don´t see new power soucer for some years but it´s possible someday. Perhpas the binder and truenamer from "Tome of Magic" will be in PH VI.
The Binder could be a new Vestige Pact for the Warlock, and I could see the Truenamer as an arcane Paragon Path.
For example, instead of Martial in PHIII or PHIV, I think we'd see Martial Power II. I'd much rather have fewer classes. There is often too much overlap to actually make a distinct class with. Builds within classes are sort of the middle ground, with Paragon Paths being the icing to finely cap off a character concept.
If Dark Sun in the campaign setting for 2010, then I would expect 4 psionic classes in PHIII, and probably 2 or so races known for being associated with psionics (githyanki, elan, dromite, or something new and unusual).
I wouldn't expect there to be another classic western fantasy setting (Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Birthright) before some of the more exotic settings are out, since FR will cover those that want typical fantasy fare. Or a brand new 4e setting, that really drives home the Points-of-light design philosophy.
The Binder could be a new Vestige Pact for the Warlock, and I could see the Truenamer as an arcane Paragon Path.
I could see the Truenamer as yet another Arcane Leader. If you look what they did to the bard, and see what fans have done with Incarnum for 4e, you might see where I am going with that thought. It could end up being VERY awesome.
Swashbuckler as a martial controller
Tell me you are kidding. *twitch*
That having been said... I doubt we'll see it. It seems to me that there will only be 4 classes per power source, excluding setting specific classes like the Swordmage and... Oh dear god I'm going dumb, I can't remember the name of the Eberron Arcane leader class. Starts with an A though, so I'll take the points where I can.
In any case, I can't see them revisiting the martial power source and adding new classes. I would put money on them doing a Martial Power 2, and adding new builds to existing classes, but not new martial classes. The ones we have really cover all the bases I can think of.
I would also bet good money that both Warforged and Kalashtar will be in the Eberron Player's Guide. I could see Doppleganger being put in there as well, but of the three it is by far most likely to see a PHB. I don't know why so many people seem to think Kalashtar needs the Psionic power source. It doesn't. Someone mentioned that the Illithid exists without the power source and I would argue that Illithids are far more psionic than Kalashtar in terms of flavour. I don't know if this is reliable information but I seem to remember reading that Kalashtar will be released without any mechanical bent toward Psionics (save perhaps their stat bonuses, which I'm sure will make them viable for many classes not just psionics). The point being that unlike in 3.5 where they were naturally psionic and had extra power points they will have no such natural affinity for psionics in 4e. Also, even in Eberron lore the Kalashtar are far from being completely psionic. Many are psionic, true but it's far from their only choice. Also, neat trick: "Oh, so I really want to play a Kalashtar Psionicist, but PHB3 isn't out yet... Darn, guess I'll just reflavour the Wizard / Warlock / insert class here".
There's no reason that Kalashtar shouldn't be in the EPG. If one of the races are going to poached it'll be doppleganger because it fits way better into a traditional setting (where they have existed even before 4e).
Here is what I'm hoping for, for PHB3:
Power sources: Ki, Shadow, Psionics (I see either Shadow or Psionics taking the larger, 4 class slot, I'm hoping for Psionics)
Ki Striker: Monk
Ki Defender: Samurai, yes we can make a samurai out of any number of other classes, but it's fun to have our own class for it. I see some kind of honor based class feature. Potentially a side of leader or striker. If leader it will be to the Warlord as the Paladin is to the Cleric. Or if it's a striker I see it having a very small repertoire of ranged bow and arrow attacks and being more about drawing on one's inner power (ki) than about what weapon you use like the fighter is.
Shadow Controller: Illusionist
Shadow ???? Possibly controller: Necromancer
Psionic Controller: Telepath (Alternatively called Psion but much more about attacking the mind in this edition, it wont be a reskinned blaster wizard)
Psionic Striker: Psyblade (potentially renamed)
Psionic Defender: Pychic Warrior OR Ardent OR some guy who stole their stuff and has a new name.
Psionic ????: I'm not sure what the final Psionic class would be. Since WoTC is not concerned with symmetry I can see another controller being made out of the Shaper's stuff or I can see a leader being made out of the Ardent or another Psionic class.
I doubt they'll do 2 full power sources for PHB3 because no matter what if they do that someone will be disappointed. There are a handful of classes which i think the consumer's really want to see. Those are: Monk, Necromancer, Illusionist and some form of psionics. As long as the public gets the telepath and another psionic class they'll be fine (my vote would personally go for the Psyblade as a second). I don't see WoTC rushing to finish the ki power source especially because I really think their intention was to cram all of the Asian classes in it and now that they've seen the massive disapproval of the boards they may be rethinking it. Alternatively, if you release the "asian" power source in two parts a year separate people will whine a whole lot less about it cause it's not as in their face that it's for the Asian classes (which I have no problem being shoved into the ki power source, but that's a topic for another thread).
Both the Shadow power source and the Psionic power source have a rather large demand group waiting for them, however I believe the shadow power source more difficult to stat up without overlap and I think the most of the anticipation for the Shadow power source is over the Necromancer and Illusionist. On top of this, I believe that the Psionic power source has a slightly bigger fan base. Further I think Dark Sun will probably be the 2010 setting. Thus I think Psionics will be fill the larger portion of PHB3. Although I wouldn't be surprised if WoTC attempted to use the Psionic power sources popularity to sell the less popular Ki and Elemental power sources by leaving two Psionic classes out of PHB 3 and saving them for PHB4.
/end wall of text
Swashbuckler as a martial controller
Rogue with a rapier – done.
The closest we might get to a martial controller is the archer build Ranger.
And I hate.. no actually, I don't, I enjoy this - to burst the bubble but Rogue = swashbuckler. Check out Martial power if you don't believe me. There's a Rakish Swashbuckler. So, if you want to buckle some swashes you have to at least multi-class in to rogue. So there it's done. There is no swashbuckler class coming, no fighter variant it's a rogue paragon path. Deal with it.
See, I'm probably alone in this, but I want the illusionist to be a psionic class. I mean it makes sense, getting people to see something that only exists in their mind?
And I hate.. no actually, I don't, I enjoy this - to burst the bubble but Rogue = swashbuckler. Check out Martial power if you don't believe me. There's a Rakish Swashbuckler. So, if you want to buckle some swashes you have to at least multi-class in to rogue. So there it's done. There is no swashbuckler class coming, no fighter variant it's a rogue paragon path. Deal with it.
I will add, though, that Rakish Swashbuckler makes an excellent PP for a fighter thanks to Vexing Foe making anyone you've marked grant CA to your allies. It's really a not bad path for a fighter with a high dex.
Tell me you are kidding. *twitch*
I am not. I was thinking Errol Flynn who would use his speed to engage multiple opponents at once, skirmishing his way thru a battle scene.
Swashbuckler as martial controller is one of the better ideas I've seen for a martial controller actually. Think of it, the daring swashbuckler bursts in and in the span of 6 seconds kills 4 and a half bad guys and has moved twenty feet across the room.
You explained better than I did
I am not. I was thinking Errol Flynn who would use his speed to engage multiple opponents at once, skirmishing his way thru a battle scene.
So, a striker (rogue)?
So, a striker (rogue)?
the engaging multiple opponents at once makes it a controller
That, of course, would leave room for the Samurai (if appearing) to become the new heavy-weapon striker.
That does leave a question of, if they plan to have a third Ki-based source, where the next class would be. Ninjas are basically Rogues on crack and Wu-Jen, wizards with restrictions. Ah well... Best to KISS then, eh?
Regarding Psionics, I never liked the way they ran in 3.0/3.5, based on power points that you had to insanely burn through (aka, Nova) to be effective in battle. There has to be a bit more flavor than just "a warrior with a psychic blade" or "magic, but not." If they do make it, though, I'm almost certain WotC will pull it off with grand flair. I look forward to it.
As for the Ki power source, I don' think its even needed. It's pretty much Martial with an Asian theme, save for Wu Jen which is Arcane or Elemental. Ninja and Samurai are pretty much rogues and Samurai. As someone else stated, the rogue even uses Shuriken like a ninja. I'm sure they'll include it at some point because its a popular idea.
the engaging multiple opponents at once makes it a controller
So a fighter with cleave is a controller?
Call me silly, but I see the [hopefully] upcoming Monk as a Ki Defender. My emphasis is purely on the fluff aspect, given that age-old adage about martial arts being only for defense.
Monks are pretty much confirmed as Ki Strikers.
As for the Ki power source, I don' think its even needed. It's pretty much Martial with an Asian theme, save for Wu Jen which is Arcane or Elemental. Ninja and Samurai are pretty much rogues and Samurai. As someone else stated, the rogue even uses Shuriken like a ninja. I'm sure they'll include it at some point because its a popular idea.
If you're referring to them including "[the Ki power source] at some point because its a popular idea...", they already have. PHB pg. 54. I do, however, believe that the two have very distinct differences, Samurai and Fighters.
I can't really say that one is better trained than the other... or that one is too much fluff. Reading about the samurai of old is a fascinating topic filled with technique, spirit, honor and bravery. Does this separate them from, say, the knights of England during the medieval era (i.e. Fighters)? Much is spoken of regarding the soul of the warrior when concerning samurai, infusing this life energy into their weapon to grant them power. The knight of old? Often spoken of looking to the power of God or their own strength and skill to carry themselves through.
Perhaps it's a lot of fluff. Fluff is one of the very things that helps to separate the classes, however, with crunch applied to much of it. We'll just have to see where it goes. I have a friend who would absolutely love playing a samurai in D&D (he's a nut on the subject). I wouldn't mind it being around. WotC is the one who will tell us what is up next.
Monks are pretty much confirmed as Ki Strikers.
Having read your awesome thread (I'm more or less a thread subscriber), I can see where you come up with said thought. I'm about 95% inclined to agree, but I can't shake the feeling that it is possible that the Monk could end up as a Ki Defender. Add in the fact that it was stated that they hadn't seriously started designing the class yet and that, previously, it didn't have a specific role (and then it was stated that it was "at least" 50% wrong).
Either way, I'll be happy to see the class
The Monk itself would be mainly an unarmed combatant(with perhaps a few specialized weapons such as nunchaku and staves). Their techniques would be flashier than the martial classes, and might involve a few "ki blast"-style powers.
As for psionic classes, I think they'll focus on more subtle, mental powers, leaving the fireballs and energy blasts for the arcane classes. They'll probably involve mind control (domination-type effects) and telekinetic abilities (abilities that immobilize or push large groups of enemies).
Having read your awesome thread (I'm more or less a thread subscriber), I can see where you come up with said thought. I'm about 95% inclined to agree, but I can't shake the feeling that it is possible that the Monk could end up as a Ki Defender. Add in the fact that it was stated that they hadn't seriously started designing the class yet and that, previously, it didn't have a specific role (and then it was stated that it was "at least" 50% wrong).
Either way, I'll be happy to see the class
Just as a slight correction, the 50% wrong thing was the assumption from someone's post at ENWorld that the monk would be a martial striker. So either martial or striker was wrong. Seeing as how it is confirmed as being ki, that makes the martial part wrong and the striker part write. Although I do admit that there is enough time they could change their minds(I just don't see that as likely).
Just as a slight correction, the 50% wrong thing was the assumption from someone's post at ENWorld that the monk would be a martial striker. So either martial or striker was wrong. Seeing as how it is confirmed as being ki, that makes the martial part wrong and the striker part write. Although I do admit that there is enough time they could change their minds(I just don't see that as likely).
Yep. Again, though, the words "at least" could have a deeper meaning. That's all I'm trying to point out.
The one big suggestion I have is I want a playable race that can fly ALL the time. Even if it is just like raptorian in 3.5 ver. make a few veriations of the creatures too so the is some more choices for a few different classes. what does everyone else think?
I personally like Raptorians, even though I thought they were funky looking. I think the race could use a visual makeover, and one of the more traditional names for winged-elves...
Anyway, I think it is a good idea. Give them features that allow them to glide/fall softly, and flight once per encounter. At epic or paragon tier, you could give them a daily feat-power that replaces one of their utility powers, which would allow them to fly, and sustain it.
So a fighter with cleave is a controller?
No no no. The big thing about a controller is the ability to engage multiple opponents. A swashbuckler ala Errol Flynn would "fight" numerous opponents at once using speed
No no no. The big thing about a controller is the ability to engage multiple opponents. A swashbuckler ala Errol Flynn would "fight" numerous opponents at once using speed
Lets not turn this into a Martial Controller thread. The topic is over discussed, and at any rate has no place in this thread.
While we are on the subject, let me just say that Swashbuckler, according to Races & Classes was one of the first classes outlined in 4e play testing, but they decided it was better off if they broke it up into the rogue and ranger classes. I think all who want this class would do well to follow their logic, and apply it in reverse.
I think a race that could fly would need to have a metamophasis at pargon levels...I don't think wings @ heroic work...
Just because you have wings doesn't mean you have a fly speed. The flavor of the flight-balancing mechanic of raptorians was that their wings were still weak and not yet conditioned to holding an adult's weight in the air for too long. If you use similar fluff, you can say that a wingged race could manage short bursts of flight at a time, like say, an encounter power (move action) that propelled them 8 or so squares. In this way, they can neither travel quickly over land, nor could they participate in areal combat or completely negate land-bound hindrances.
The big thing about a controller is the ability to engage multiple opponents.
Which Defenders and Strikers can do as well (see Ranadiel's cleave remark for an example, or some of the barbarian powers).
I am thinking... there are the player handbooks... and the setting player´s guide (FR, Eberron...). Could we have got a third type of PH? I am talking about a undead slayer player handbook, a dragon slayer PH, a fey PH, a aberration hunter PH...
Well in theory it is probably possible.....then again in theory we could also get a book on new clothing based monsters that revere the true overgod of all D&D settings, Rich Baker's socks!
Above answer with less snark: Yes but there are a thousand other books that they could do in theory, and I really don't see them having enough material to fill up entire books dedicated to slaying specific types of monsters.
And besides that, most of the annual books(Draconomicon, PHB, MM, DMG, AV, CG, and PG) got a volume released this year. The only confirmed annual books that aren't getting a release this year are the Dragon and Dungeon Annuals, and both of them needed a year to get material to print.
I don't believe they've said anything about a Dungeon Annual, though I think it would be a cool product. Maybe they'll do a hardbound version of the Scales of War Adventure Path, with support articles?
Dungeon Annual 2009 was announced officially before the Dragon Annual was. It's scheduled for May.
Dungeon Annual 2009 was announced officially before the Dragon Annual was. It's scheduled for May.
If I remember correctly, the Dungeon Annual has only appeared on sites like Amazon. It hasn't appeared in the Wizards catalogues or on the Wizards website yet. So whether it will actually see a May release is still sort of up in the air.
If I remember correctly, the Dungeon Annual has only appeared on sites like Amazon. It hasn't appeared in the Wizards catalogues or on the Wizards website yet. So whether it will actually see a May release is still sort of up in the air.
Huh. It's not on WotC's product list on the site, is it? Interesting. It shows up on the computer at work (major book chain), same as it does on Amazon. Oh, well. We'll wait and see.
See, I'm probably alone in this, but I want the illusionist to be a psionic class. I mean it makes sense, getting people to see something that only exists in their mind?
Psionic does indeed work fine for the type of illusionist who just puts images into peoples minds and I would expect that one or more psionic classes will probably have a few powers that work that way. However, for the shadow illusionist that most people are expecting I don't see them working like that. The shadow illusionist, as I envision it, actual shapes shadows into semi-real forms, and unlike with a purely mental illusion it isn't enough to simply disbelieve them (much like the old illusion spells, Shadow Conjuration and Shadow Evocation, which still did a little damage even if the target knew the effect wasn't real.
For any one who cares, here's a quick list of how I think Illusions should work by power source.
[INDENT]Types of Illusions by Power Source
Arcane: "Mirages", tricks of light and sound. They appear real but have no substance.
Psionic: "Figments", it's all in your head. Mental manipulation that deceive the targets senses and are only as dangerous as the target believes them to be.
Shadow: <*>, stuff of the plane of shadows drawn forth and woven together by the casters will. The target's belief in what is before them adds weight to the danger, but that danger is still real even if only partially so.
*I don't have a one word descriptor for shadow illusions. Any help would be appreciated.[/INDENT]
Lets not turn this into a Martial Controller thread. The topic is over discussed, and at any rate has no place in this thread.[/u]
huh? The thread is about possible future classes. How does it not have a place in this thread?
huh? The thread is about possible future classes. How does it not have a place in this thread?
Because it is worthy of its own conversation, that there are dozens of threads dedicated to the topic. Starting that topic here would likely derail the thread, like what we are doing now, but moreso.
Because it is worthy of its own conversation, that there are dozens of threads dedicated to the topic. Starting that topic here would likely derail the thread, like what we are doing now, but moreso.
ah. Well, I still see it as right on topic but so be it
In his words (pg 15 from Races and Classes):
“A class like the wu jen or the hexblade might use a completely new and different type of magic, allowing us to reinvent the ground rules rather than use what has come before. Since those clearly use magic in a different manner when compared to a wizard, we shelve them under a new power source, build a system of magic that works for their needs, and create spells tuned to them rather them simple use the 3E wizard/sorcerer spell list.”
With all the info we already have at this point we can say that hexblade will probably be a shadow class and the wu jen a elemental class.
I could see the stiker hexblade hexing a target so that any person that has CA aginst the deal an extra 1d6, Then would have an at will that dazes or blinds the foe, daily that make copies of himself that can flank or make basic attacks and so on.
I think that he was using them as an example, with "like" and "might" as key words. The Hexblade would obviously be a Shadow Defender, but they might develop their idea of a shadow defender so well that the name and class concept of "hexblade" might no longer work. I for one disfavor the name, and think that the 3.5 class itself would be well implemented as a Warlock/McFighter. However, I would be in favor of a shadow defender that covered new ground.
What about a name more like...Blackguard? I've been thinking with a flavor away from the anti-paladin to more of a shadow knight could work...think Doctor Doom with his combined dark magic and armor and such.
More a thought on name substitution than anything else, really, since I also have never really been fond of the name "hexblade" and would like to see something happen with the blackguard.
What about a name more like...Blackguard? I've been thinking with a flavor away from the anti-paladin to more of a shadow knight could work...think Doctor Doom with his combined dark magic and armor and such.
More a thought on name substitution than anything else, really, since I also have never really been fond of the name "hexblade" and would like to see something happen with the blackguard.
I would prefer Blackgaurd to Hexlbade, but I would prefer entirely new ground be explored for the Shadow Defender, possibly ground that included that of Blackgarud and Hexblade. Maybe the class could implement all aspects of Shadow, and maybe use illusion, or perhaps channel aspects of undeath to defend his allies. The archtypes of Hexblade and Blackgaurd could be held within, but so much more could also be accomplished.
I just got my copy of the book today. The new race is the Bladeling. It's written up with a sidebar on player character bladelings in the monster section.
It's basically an updated version of the Spiker. It has stat bonuses to Wis and Dex, and a racial power that allows it to fire spikes from its body which can be upgraded with a feat. They're described as soldiers created by Bane long ago who have since rebelled against him.
There's some other neat stuff in the book, but this probably isn't the forum to talk about that.
I have just read the new race of the book of the planes is the blandeling (from the MM II of 3rd Ed).
...
I wouldn't want to be one of these guys. Can you imagine how much of a hassle it must be just to put clothes on?
I wouldn't want to be one of these guys. Can you imagine how much of a hassle it must be just to put clothes on?
I hope they are tough...becuse if they need a hug...
I hope they are tough...becuse if they need a hug...
lol Truth.
I suposse a new blandeling/spiker PC race would be for classes without armour (spellcasters.... and monks).
You are right, doctorwho, I´m sorry... I mean doctorhook
I suposse a new blandeling/spiker PC race would be for classes without armour (spellcasters.... and monks).
Forgive me, Luis_Carlos, but I have to ask, since you're not a native English speaker:
Are you deliberately misspelling "Bladeling" to include the word "BLAND"? (Because if they're anything like they were in 3.5E, I wouldn't blame you. :P )
I´m sorry. Sometimes I have mistakes. Names of fantasy races aren´t found in English-Spanish dictionarity. (And I write very fast too).
You don't have to apologize!
I thought you were being clever. In fact, I think I might actually call them Blandlings! I found them quite boring in the previous edition.(If you didn't know, "bland" means boring, or flavourless. Kind of like a Blandling.)
Doppleganger - A shapeshifting race is a pretty cool addition to the list. If they aren't in the Eberron handbook, they'll probably be in PHB3.
Kalashtar/Elan - May get combined into one race. Due to their psionic flavor, they'd be a good addition to the Eberron/PHB3 book.
Warforged - May be printed up again for the Eberron book, though they do have an online article as well.
Thri-Kreen/Dromite - May also get combined into a single 'insectoid' race. If Dark Sun is the third campaign setting, it may appear there.
Mul - Half-dwarf race. An iconic Dark Sun race.
Githzerai/Githyanki - Good bets for the PHB3. The former will be excellent Monks, while the latter specialize in the Arcane and Psionic sources.
Shadar-Kai - If the Shadow source appears in PHB3, these guys will probably show up.
Undead - A playable undead race would be a pretty cool addition to the line-up, particularly when the Shadow source appears. Dhampir (half-vampires) might be a good choice for both undead and vampire fans, since the Shifter fills the lycanthrope/beastman role.
Centaur - Centaurs would be an unique option, since they're still humanoid enough to wield weapons. Stairs and ladders would still be a problem, though.
Aquatic race - An aquatic 'fish-person' race might also be an unique addition. They'd probably have to be amphibious (capable of breathing both air and water), otherwise the number of adventures they could get involved in would be limited.
Winged race - Flight might be a problematic ability if it's at-will (particularly at the heroic levels), but it could be mitigated by having it be limited early on and then having racial feats available at high levels to remove the restrictions.
For kalasthar and other psionic races we have to wait PH 3 or beyond.
Thri-Kreen has four arms. It isn´t easy a PC with +0 level adjusment and four arms.
Dromite are... too ..drone.
Mul will be in Dark Sun player´s guide. I´m convinced.
Githzerai and Githyanki for PH3.
Shadar-kai when the classes with shadow powers are published. PH 4?
Undead race? vampyres from Ravenloft, necropolitan from Libris Mortis, dhampires...or renatus, the undead/deathless equivalent to warforged (like mummies).
Centaur has a great potential, very they would be a very fast race.. with a lot of movement..(charging everytime). They could need a lot of playtesting.
Acuatic PC race? I don´t rule out the return of some race from stormwrack but... they are too specialized.
Winged race? I miss raptorans (races of wyld) and avariels (winged elves from Races of Faerun), but flying for fourth ed. isn´t so ...acessible.
I would really like to see lizardfolk as a playable race.
Hear, hear!
We don't even have a MM write-up for them yet, do we?
Hear, hear!
We don't even have a MM write-up for them yet, do we?
Absolutely not and it's a problem. Who in WotC decided not to make them playable? He should be fired. :P I was really looking forward to a lizardfolk race without the level adjustment problem.
I want a Yuan-ti (humanoid style) PC race.
That ,too, is agreeable. Ok, Lads, we need to stand tagether and fight this tyranny. AYE!!
* Lizardfolk aren´t so popular like kobolds or orcs. They are too primitive and reptilian.... who does want lizardfolk if your PC can be a draconkin? But I don´t rule out a new reptilian race in a far future.
* There was a humanoid race with blood of yuan-ti in Urban arcana.
* I supect a monster player´s guide (dragons, undead, fey, aberrations) about reptilian creatures..(do you rebember Serpent Kingdoms, of Forgoten Realms?)
* Swashbuckler class would be perfect for a naval campaing like spelljammer or red steel.
* Swashbuckler class would be perfect for a naval campaing like spelljammer or red steel.
It's a shame then that the Rakish Swashbuckler is a paragon path for the Rogue then isn't it?
Are you a spiker, or is your hole on your trousers because you are pleased to see me?
* Lizardfolk aren´t so popular like kobolds or orcs. They are too primitive and reptilian.... who does want lizardfolk if your PC can be a draconkin? But I don´t rule out a new reptilian race in a far future.
I know they aren't, but neither was doppelganger. It would just be nice for the players that do decide they want to use them. It would take up an eighth of a page. What is so wrong with that?
This could let shifters be similar mechanics wise to the genasi and able to take different shifter types/manifestations of the primal beast.
I know this sort of flies in the face the fluff, but it can still work into it. They can still be descended from lycanthropes, but lycanthropes can sort of be creatures with corrupted links to the primal beast, only taking shapes of aggressive bloodthirsty animals with only one aggressive thought on the mind. While shifters have overcome that or avoided that and are more closely linked to the primal beast.
I guess I'm just really hoping that the shifters get a total revamp because I'm not really a fan of how they are done at the moment.
I know they aren't, but neither was doppelganger. It would just be nice for the players that do decide they want to use them. It would take up an eighth of a page. What is so wrong with that?
Doppleganger was incuded because it was a prominant race of a published setting, Like Drow and Warforged.
I fully expect Lizardfolk to have a racial block in the back of MM2.
Doppleganger was incuded because it was a prominant race of a published setting, Like Drow and Warforged.
And because it's a handy-dandy fantasy archetype, too.
I fully expect Lizardfolk to have a racial block in the back of MM2.
I fully agree.
And because it's a handy-dandy fantasy archetype, too.
I fully agree.
While dopplegangers might be a fantasy archetype. The archetype is "steal the identity of a loved one and then eat your face". I hardly think we would have playable dopplegangers had Eberron not used them as playable characters.
Then again my view of Dopplegangers is probably heavily influenced by Baldur's Gate. Sarevok was freaking obsessed with those things.
While dopplegangers might be a fantasy archetype. The archetype is "steal the identity of a loved one and then eat your face". I hardly think we would have playable dopplegangers had Eberron not used them as playable characters.
to be fair the fantasy archetype is shapeshifter that can look like anything...the dopplefanger itself is "steal the identity of a loved one and then eat your face".
to be fair the fantasy archetype is shapeshifter that can look like anything...the dopplefanger itself is "steal the identity of a loved one and then eat your face".
But then you can make any creature good. Like a good drow. Not likely, but it happens. I don't know why, but I have always liked playing as goblins and kobolds who were saved by one of the other players and feel indebted to them. I'm somebody's 3!tch basically. :P
But then you can make any creature good. Like a good drow. Not likely, but it happens. I don't know why, but I have always liked playing as goblins and kobolds who were saved by one of the other players and feel indebted to them. I'm somebody's 3!tch basically. :P
...Let's makes sure I got this right, Ausolion: You don't know why, but you like to pretend to be someone's "3!tch", [licking motion]. (Not to mention pretending to be ugly, three feet tall, and "saved by [one of the heroes]", as well.)
Interesting. More information about you, A, than perhaps I cared to have, but interesting nonetheless.
*blackmail*
...Let's makes sure I got this right, Ausolion: You don't know why, but you like to pretend to be someone's "3!tch", [licking motion]. (Not to mention pretending to be ugly, three feet tall, and "saved by [one of the heroes]", as well.)
Interesting. More information about you, A, than perhaps I cared to have, but interesting nonetheless.
*blackmail*
Not much more you could do to a guy like me......no one pays me for my serveices....I have to pay to give MY service......
It makes for an interesting relationship for two characters. I pretty much do whatever "Master"(whipping chains motion with affection) tells me to do and strive to protect him/her at all times. Think Jaken from Inuyasha. He's the little green dude who follows Sesshomeru. That guy, but I'm a Cleric. I chose cleric and reflavored him to be a shaman healer. So now I protect my master, a Dragonborn Paladin, and anyone he considers an ally. Made some parts of the game interesting. I put myself into some dangerous situations with this character.
Not much more you could do to a guy like me......no one pays me for my serveices....I have to pay to give MY service......
It makes for an interesting relationship for two characters. I pretty much do whatever "Master"(whipping chains motion with affection) tells me to do and strive to protect him/her at all times. Think Jaken from Inuyasha. He's the little green dude who follows Sesshomeru. That guy, but I'm a Cleric. I chose cleric and reflavored him to be a shaman healer. So now I protect my master, a Dragonborn Paladin, and anyone he considers an ally. Made some parts of the game interesting. I put myself into some dangerous situations with this character.
Although I was obviously joking (and obviously, you realized that), you have offered a good case for it! FWIW, in all seriousness, roleplaying always livens up the game, and you obviously have a clear idea about it.
Although I was obviously joking (and obviously, you realized that), you have offered a good case for it! FWIW, in all seriousness, roleplaying always livens up the game, and you obviously have a clear idea about it.
It doesn't take very much roleplaying to make it fun :P
I really would like to see some more descriptive write-ups for the monster races, like they did with the gnolls and minotaurs. Racial feats are amongst my favorite feats, as are racial paragon paths that focus on the innate abilities of the races. Halfling bounder, dwarven defender, tiefling warfiend...all offer a great deal of difference to each class and give more flavor and reason for combinations. If they had neat feats and paragon paths for a wizard dragonborn, more people would play them. Same with monster races. I would like to see a lot more of that for all old and new races, whether or not they are monster races. At the very least, it gives the DM new ways to portray those monsters.
It doesn't take very much roleplaying to make it fun :P
I really would like to see some more descriptive write-ups for the monster races, like they did with the gnolls and minotaurs. Racial feats are amongst my favorite feats, as are racial paragon paths that focus on the innate abilities of the races. Halfling bounder, dwarven defender, tiefling warfiend...all offer a great deal of difference to each class and give more flavor and reason for combinations. If they had neat feats and paragon paths for a wizard dragonborn, more people would play them. Same with monster races. I would like to see a lot more of that for all old and new races, whether or not they are monster races. At the very least, it gives the DM new ways to portray those monsters.
I totally want to play a Dragonborn Wizard, reflavored to be a Breath Weapon master. All her spells are going to be variations on breath attacks. ^_^
Unfortunately, my group doesn't need a wizard right now. I'm the only fighter among 3 squishies and a cleric.