Psion class, only 3 different attack powers that you can augment.

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

SHARCRASH

Jan 20, 2010 14:24:20
Hello all,

I'm building for the first time a lvl 11 Psion and i came accross the fact that at lvl 7 we have already to drop a power attack to get a newer/higher one. So, we can only get 3 different attack powers. This seems unfair compared to the classic building rules whereas these allow to get 3 different encounter attack powers AND the 2 at-will attack powers. Ok, i know we can augment them, but they only become more powerful. So, not really different and this is a real restrain to keep the character versatile. I feel that we are limited compared to the more diversified amount of attacks you get with the classic rules which allow us to adapt fairly our fights depending on the situation. Don't you think that a 4th power attack would have been more fair?

I never played DD4 v3.5 and older versions, so i don't know if this was already the case in the previous version(s)... What are your thoughts? =: ]

#2

Bargle0

Jan 20, 2010 14:50:36
That's the core mechanic of Psionics in 4e: flexibility within a range of effects at the price of overall variety.
#3

SHARCRASH

Jan 20, 2010 15:47:51
Hmm... arf... was it already that way in the previous DD4 versions or are the Psionics totally new?
#4

Marandahir

Jan 20, 2010 16:01:04
Hmm... arf... was it already that way in the previous DD4 versions or are the Psionics totally new?



Psionics were different in previous versions.  There were Power Points, but they were essentially a mana bar, since you could use however many Powers you wanted that you knew until your PP ran out.
#5

marius4

Jan 20, 2010 20:51:03
Well, don't forget that not only is the actual book introducing Psionics into 4e not out yet, but that following that there will be a Psionic Power book to expand on the options.  Loosely speaking, the general  issue you raise (not enough variety in powers) is sort of the case with all of the classes in 4e at first.  People always want more powers, but only so much will fit in the first presentation of a class.

The issue does appear more severe with Psionic classes since (as you point out) it goes down to the level of encounter powers being flavoristically(?) absent.  However, I'm sure they will develop new options to differentiate Psionic characters.  The mechanics may not allow for additional encounter powers, but who's to say they cannot add new & unusual augments to existing powers?  Or perhaps feats that allow options to all power point users (think metamagic/metapsionic feats)?  etc.

In essence, I think what you're pointing out is a valid criticism, but perhaps it simply means that more variety will have to come through mechanical means other than encounter powers.  ...And I guess we'll have to see if that can be as meaningful.
#6

mellored

Jan 22, 2010 14:29:39
You bascily do have encounter powers.  Their just linked with you're at-will powers.  The advantage psions have is that they can use their encounter power multiple times.

Several classes have enounter powers that are just ramped up at-will's *cough*ranger*cough*.
#7

marius4

Jan 23, 2010 20:46:56
To be more specific, I think the OP's point is mostly about flavor and choice in powers.  Where a non-psionic character would have three flavors (1 at-will, 1 encounter, and 1 daily), a Psion would have only two flavors, one of which can be tweaked a little.

However, does this bother me personally?  Not really.  I think I'd agree that it's part of the trade off of the Psion, and it seems fair enough.  You get other advantages, like multiple usage as mellored points out.
#8

Damon_Tor

Jan 24, 2010 1:41:16
I'm more concerned with how these classes will interact with multiclass feats.  Hard to swap out encounter attack powers when you don't have any.
#9

marius4

Jan 24, 2010 3:38:18

Maybe the power becomes non-augmentable??

#10

Marandahir

Jan 24, 2010 8:52:32
I'm Sure WotC have thought about MC feats extensively and will provide a suitable answer when we get there.  Since the book is just in the final publishing stages, I'm 100% certain they've already gotten an answer to that, but just aren't telling us yet.  It's another incentive to actually buy the book.

That said, when I think about the fluff reasons for powers and their different categories, I think about how a fighter or rogue spends a lot of energy coming up with a complex stratagem, and to use that same technique more than once is a very difficult thing. 

Psionic characters, on the other hand, use only a limited number of simple stratagems, one more than any other character might have, all things otherwise the same, but because of their intense discipline and focus on just those few powers can augment them into various levels to suit the needs and purposes of the moment.

Of course, they still have their daily powers which take similar amount of investment in order to carry out (to the point that they need to meditate overnight in order to utilise that power again).
#11

mellored

Jan 24, 2010 21:54:05
Power swap feats probably take a dent to you're Power Points.  Or give you some.

So it's probably like you can trade an encounter for an at-will +2 PP.
Or
Trade an at-will and 2PP for an encounter.

Just my guess
#12

Stuntman

Jan 24, 2010 22:57:37
I'm more concerned with how these classes will interact with multiclass feats.  Hard to swap out encounter attack powers when you don't have any.


I don't think it would be too difficult.  You'll probably be swapping power points.  There was quite a bit of speculation of how to handle multiclassing and hybrids, but many of that speculation is rather similar to each other.
#13

kev_1270

Jan 26, 2010 11:25:39
Multiclassing with Ardent should be simple enough