Psionic Power Excerpts - Battlemind

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Marandahir

Aug 05, 2010 23:14:02
Excerpts
Psionic Power
Chapter 2: Battleminds

We continue our coverage of Psionic Power with a preview of the new build for Battleminds in Psionic Power, the Harrier Battlemind.  As a Con/Dex build, say hello again to the Nomad!

Talk about this preview here.
excerpts_pp20100806.jpg
#2

Janx_14

Aug 05, 2010 23:28:11

That wilden is so weird looking, he has bug antlers and what looks like Flood tentacles coming out of him.

Also, Accelerating strike should be colored as a daily, my jaw dropped when i first saw it.

Con/Dex Defender who twists fate and time? Perfect for revenants thematicly and mechanicly.

The battlemind needs to stop dissing weapons and armor though...he wears them (well, except armor in the case of this build).

#3

greatfrito

Aug 05, 2010 23:56:41
Yay, not a dreaded Paragon Path Preview!  Tongue outWink

*********************************************

As for the preview itself, I think I have two words (and then some more words):

Oh My.

I really like that they're going with the Nomad build.  I also really like that this is Con/Dex.  I also also really like the powers previewed.

In fact, this is the first preview in a long time that just completely appealed to me.  I like the Resilient BM quite a lot already, but this one has the potential to become a favorite.



A complaint: I understand that the Quick BM is more about increasing "speed and agility", whereas this one is more about... movement?  I think there's some conceptual overlay there that irks me, but there should be plenty of space for them to define the two apart in the actual product.  If they can do that for me, it won't be a problem.


EDIT: Looks like Monk/BM and Monk|BM has another interesting option for a "soulknife" build.  Now all they need to do is give us a feat / feature / theme, and we're (officially) set*. 

*-Missing ranged powers, I know, I know.
#4

Dragoncat

Aug 06, 2010 2:33:46
...........So it's another Battlemind build that uses "The power of its mind" while never touching mental stats.

I, too, am pleased to see the return of the Nomad, but I am annoyed with the continued trend of making Battleminds complete morons.  A class that can function with an eight in every single mental statistic should not be boasting about the power of its mind.  If a character isn't smart, isn't wise, and doesn't have any force of personality to speak of, it had better have a damn good reason for being a master of thought.

Which, of course, is all dependent on whether or not they actually give the Battlemind proper flavor this time around.  I'm hoping they do, because "You are a warrior.  You are PSYCHIC!" does not a proper class theme make.
#5

Duskweaver

Aug 06, 2010 3:35:14
That wilden is so weird looking, he has bug antlers and what looks like Flood tentacles coming out of him.


I actually quite like the weirdness. I think the wilden would have greatly benefited from getting this sort of alien-looking portrayal from the outset.

Also, Accelerating strike should be colored as a daily, my jaw dropped when i first saw it.


Subjective Gravity too.

In fact, this is the first preview in a long time that just completely appealed to me.  I like the Resilient BM quite a lot already, but this one has the potential to become a favorite.


As usual, greatfrito speaks for me.

I am seriously reconsidering my initial decision to bar the psionic power source (except the monk, which I made arcane) from my homebrew setting. I'll still need to do something to solve the issue with power points and augment scaling at epic tier (probably by tying extra power points to the levels of powers the character actually has), and it's not going to be easy to shoehorn the psionic power source into a setting where the arcane power source already fills all the conceptual space psionics is supposed to occupy. But this new battlemind build is just too cool not to use. I love dance-fighters. Hell, that's why I like monks, and this build feels like a more defendery version of the monk to me.

*-Missing ranged powers, I know, I know.


When your Dex is that high, do you necessarily need specific ranged powers? Your ranged basic attack is already going to be pretty good.

...........So it's another Battlemind build that uses "The power of its mind" while never touching mental stats.


"Another"? This is the only battlemind build so far that doesn't use mental stats.

I, too, am pleased to see the return of the Nomad, but I am annoyed with the continued trend of making Battleminds complete morons.  A class that can function with an eight in every single mental statistic should not be boasting about the power of its mind.  If a character isn't smart, isn't wise, and doesn't have any force of personality to speak of, it had better have a damn good reason for being a master of thought.


Well... I don't entirely disagree. I have the same conceptual problem with the runepriest. However, assuming you use standard point-buy, only one of your mental stats is going to be below 10, and nobody is forcing you to dump any of them down to 8.

The real problem, with both the battlemind and the runepriest, is actually a flaw in the way ability scores work rather than being a flaw in the design of those classes. Unless you're going to be the party's go-to guy (or girl) for knowledge checks and languages, putting points into Dex is always better than putting them into Int if Int doesn't directly affect your class powers.*

The way I get around this in my own mind is to regard Int as a measure of formal education rather than just reasoning ability. So a character with Int 8 isn't necessarily stupid. He's just not very well educated and perhaps lacks the patience to even try to learn anything he's not already interested in. Battleminds can be excellent battlefield tacticians, and they're certainly not morons, but they generally don't have much use for formal education, partly due to lack of opportunity and partly due to their natural arrogance. They don't need to study to be better at what they do, so why bother with all that fancy book-learning? A battlemind is still likely to have decent Wis and/or Cha, so he's going to have plenty of street-smarts and natural cunning.

Stop thinking of Int as a direct measure of IQ and it all makes a lot more sense.

* - If I'd been designing this part of the 4th edition rules, I'd have paired the ability scores up differently, with Wis and Int the other way around, and I'd have allowed either Dex or Wis to add to Initiative, as well as to Reflex. You can get the first move in a fight either because you're really fast and nimble, or because you're so aware of your surroundings that you knew something was about to kick off before anyone else.
#6

Dragoncat

Aug 06, 2010 3:52:18
"Another"? This is the only battlemind build so far that doesn't use mental stats.



........Frell.  Was thinking of the Runepriest, you are right.  Con/Wis, Con/Cha, now Con/Dex.


The way I get around this in my own mind is to regard Int as a measure of formal education rather than just reasoning ability.


See, I cannot stand that definition.

Wisdom gets defined as everything from intuition, perception, common sense, attunement with surroundings, self-discipline, empathy, and is the staple of everyone from the enlightened sage to the savage perfectly connected to nature.

But Intelligence gets written off as Book Learnin'.  It should be logic, rational thinking, information analysis, cognition, planning, calculation, and a huge subset of higher brain functions that are amazingly useful to a wide variety of professions.  But because it gets disregarded as the Scholar Stat, it isn't applied to many fields in which it most definately should be.

Case in point, Psionics.  One class out of the four uses Intelligence, as far as we know.  I'm hoping this book changes that, because it is rather depressing in its current form.

But that's another random rant for another time.
#7

Duskweaver

Aug 06, 2010 4:37:03
But Intelligence gets written off as Book Learnin'.  It should be logic, rational thinking, information analysis, cognition, planning, calculation, and a huge subset of higher brain functions that are amazingly useful to a wide variety of professions.  But because it gets disregarded as the Scholar Stat, it isn't applied to many fields in which it most definately should be.


I think you misunderstood what I was saying (or maybe I wasn't as clear as I could have been). I agree Int should represent all those things. I'm saying it shouldn't be thought of as "all those things except education" and that a low Int score doesn't have to imply that a character is bad at all those things - he might just be really bad at one or two and average-to-good at the others.

A character with a low Wisdom score might still be pretty good at 'reading' people (skill training and skill focus in Insight), but he might have no "common sense" to speak of. The tiefling wizard in the party I currently DM for would be an example of that sort of character. He has good social skills, but he's greedy, power-hungry and paranoid. He worships Lolth because he thinks of her as one of the few gods who might actually approve of his naked (and somewhat short-sighted) ambition. He's never even considered what she might require of him in return for her aid. His low Wis score doesn't mean he isn't perceptive (always on the look-out for trouble), insightful (good at manipulating people and figuring out their weaknesses) or self-disciplined (he can be very single-minded when he needs to be).

By the same logic, a battlemind with a low Int score isn't necessarily an idiot.

I still cannot justify a runepriest with an Int of 8, though.
#8

salla

Aug 06, 2010 7:11:32
Finally, a class where Gnolls hit both attributes!
#9

Crimson_Concerto

Aug 06, 2010 7:12:19
Finally, a class where Gnolls hit both attributes!

To be fair, the Assassin has been out for a while now... But also to be fair, most people don't count it because it isn't in print...

EDIT: Also, there some rumor (?) going around that the new Monk build is CON secondary, so your Gnoll might be happy about that too.
#10

salla

Aug 06, 2010 7:27:20
Finally, a class where Gnolls hit both attributes!

To be fair, the Assassin has been out for a while now... But also to be fair, most people don't count it because it isn't in print...

EDIT: Also, there some rumor (?) going around that the new Monk build is CON secondary, so your Gnoll might be happy about that too.



Okay, fine, finally a class I *like* where gnolls hit both attributes.

Though I will admit, a CON-secondary Monk would probably tickle my fancy even better.  Reflavor all the powers to involve claws and fangs and rock out.
#11

Crimson_Concerto

Aug 06, 2010 7:32:07
Okay, fine, finally a class I *like* where gnolls hit both attributes.

Fair enough.

Though I will admit, a CON-secondary Monk would probably tickle my fancy even better.  Reflavor all the powers to involve claws and fangs and rock out.

Sounds hot. =3
#12

thebeardeddragon

Aug 06, 2010 7:34:19
I saw Subjective Gravity in green and was immediately planning to MC to Battlemind to get it Frown

Permanent wall/ceiling walking!
#13

salla

Aug 06, 2010 7:35:36
I saw Subjective Gravity in green and was immediately planning to MC to Battlemind to get it Frown

Permanent wall/ceiling walking!



Not quite permanent, since if you try to end your turn on a wall or ceiling you fall off ... then again, this really only matters in combat, since there really aren't turns out of combat.  I, at least, would let you wander all over walls and ceilings out of combat.
#14

Crimson_Concerto

Aug 06, 2010 7:40:13
Not quite permanent, since if you try to end your turn on a wall or ceiling you fall off

Eh? No, it's a stance. And it says that you only fall when the stance ends.
Also, do make not that it's not an at-will power. It's a daily power. The bar is just colored incorrectly. This seems to be a big problem today.
#15

KoboldAvenger

Aug 06, 2010 9:29:18
Well I like that this is a build that makes a light armour wearing Battlemind viable, in much the same way a fighter with light armour is also viable.

Though I'm curious if this book actually has support for the Wild Battlemind from the Dark Sun Campaign Guide that specializes in psychokinetics.  The flavour text intro suggests they might.
#16

greatfrito

Aug 06, 2010 9:41:37
Though I'm curious if this book actually has support for the Wild Battlemind from the Dark Sun Campaign Guide that specializes in psychokinetics.  The flavour text intro suggests they might.


Hm.  That's an interesting question.  I would suspect that the Wild Battlemind will get most of its support in Dark Sun, but... I guess there's no real reason why there couldn't be some support for it in Psionic Power.
#17

Crimson_Concerto

Aug 06, 2010 9:46:44
I don't know, that would seem really weird. I mean, if they're releasing Dark Sun and Psionic Power at the same time, why wouldn't they just put everything for the Wild Battlemind in one place? It seems like a needless complexity to split up the support.
#18

greatfrito

Aug 06, 2010 9:57:07
I don't know, that would seem really weird. I mean, if they're releasing Dark Sun and Psionic Power at the same time, why wouldn't they just put everything for the Wild Battlemind in one place? It seems like a needless complexity to split up the support.


Meh, I'd expect it to be split up about as much as Dark Pact support was "split" between FRPG and AP.  Which is to say, I expect nearly 100% of it to be in the campaign book where it's introduced, with maybe a few things in the appropriate Power book (a Paragon Path, maybe?).
#19

celticmutt

Aug 06, 2010 10:02:36
While I agree that PP likely won't have much if anything for the Wild Battlemind, remember that there was a good 8 months or more between the FRPG and Arcane Power, versus both books being released on the same day.
#20

Crimson_Concerto

Aug 06, 2010 10:03:12
Meh, I'd expect it to be split up about as much as Dark Pact support was "split" between FRPG and AP.  Which is to say, I expect nearly 100% of it to be in the campaign book where it's introduced, with maybe a few things in the appropriate Power book (a Paragon Path, maybe?).

Yeah, but AP came out AFTER the FRPG, not at the same time. In the case of the Dark Pact Warlock and AP, the Dark Pact material in AP wasn't designed at the same time as the Dark Pact stuff in the FRPG was but after. However, here in the case of the Wild Battlemind, any material that would be in DS and in PP would be designed at the same time, so I can't think of any good reason not to put it in the same place.
#21

The_Jester

Aug 06, 2010 10:18:02
Oh, Battleminds. Such lovely, bland grid-fillers. 


"I'm a battlemind, I use the power of my mind to do battle."

"But most of your mental stats are dump stats."

"Yes, but unlike psions, I use military weapons and scale armour to do glorious battle."

"You mean like a fighter?"

"Yes, but I'm more than a mere fighter, as my chosen opponents dare not attack anyone else or suffer pain and hurt without my having to make an attack."

"Oh, like a paladin?"

"... Yes, but I can also change my form through my daily abilities that unlock new talents."

"You mean like a warden?"

"... Yes, but now I can bend space and teleport across the battlefield."

"Oh, like a swordmage?" 
#22

greatfrito

Aug 06, 2010 10:18:19
Well, the only "Dark Pact" stuff I can find in Arcane Power is a paragon path and a handful of powers.  The only reason I could see splitting anything off of the Wild Battlemind would be for space - I understand Dark Sun is packed with Paragon Paths already, so I could understand if they said "Y'know, there's not really space for two Wild Battlemind paragon paths: you can pick one for this book, but the other needs to go in the X Power supplement; same with powers: you can pick up to two powers per power level for this book, but any more will need to be shifted over to the X Power supplement."

But in all honesty, I don't expect much (if any) support for the Wild Battlemind build in Psionic Power.

(Heck, until we hear more about the book line up for the next year, I don't really expect any [non-DDI] support for the builds in Dark Sun.)
#23

visanidethdm

Aug 06, 2010 10:30:21
Oh, Battleminds. Such lovely, bland grid-fillers. 


"I'm a battlemind, I use the power of my mind to do battle."

"But most of your mental stats are dump stats."

"Yes, but unlike psions, I use military weapons and scale armour to do glorious battle."

"You mean like a fighter?"

"Yes, but I'm more than a mere fighter, as my chosen opponents dare not attack anyone else or suffer pain and hurt without my having to make an attack."

"Oh, like a paladin?"

"... Yes, but I can also change my form through my daily abilities that unlock new talents."

"You mean like a warden?"

"... Yes, but now I can bend space and teleport across the battlefield."

"Oh, like a swordmage?" 




Talk about backfiring arguments, but this thing here makes the Battlemind sound like the ultimate defending badass - which he really, really isn't.
#24

visanidethdm

Aug 06, 2010 10:34:22


(Heck, until we hear more about the book line up for the next year, I don't really expect any [non-DDI] support for the builds in Dark Sun.)



Technically speaking, the idea is supposedly that since no more printed DS material should be published, support for those builds should fundamentally begin and end there.

As someone said, support for the Dark Pact lock has been minimal so far; it's sort of counter intuitive to "waste" pages on builds only people who play a specific setting are likely to use.

My personal opinion is that classes should never be featured in Campaign Setting books, at least under the current format. Look at the Swordmage - you have "core" rulebooks expanding on something that theorycally non FR players would have no access to.
#25

Axiomatic_Badger

Aug 06, 2010 11:01:10
Iirc the only PPs in the Dark Sun books are bound to the character themes. So there's definately material open there, and I assume at least one of the two undefined PPs mentioned in the article are built for the Wildmind.

Really disapointed by the build. I was expecting a build that maybe doesn't need weapons, but instead we get the nomad. I mean, teleportation is fun, but it's been done.

The BM really does suffer from a lack of clearly defined fluff, but it sits in the same boat as the swordmage, who are little more than "Wizards.... Now with 20% more swords!"
#26

Werlynn

Aug 06, 2010 11:22:04
Wizard with a sword and magical defense barrier was basically how I played my swordmage. Totally emphasized the magic angle and took mostly spells that were not direct sword hits. Even those that were I described the attack itself the spell channeled be the sword making contact. It was really fun
#27

Haldrik

Aug 06, 2010 11:30:06
But Intelligence gets written off as Book Learnin'.  It should be logic, rational thinking, information analysis, cognition, planning, calculation, and a huge subset of higher brain functions that are amazingly useful to a wide variety of professions.  But because it gets disregarded as the Scholar Stat, it isn't applied to many fields in which it most definately should be.

 
A low Int score doesn't have to imply that a character is bad at all those things - he might just be really bad at one or two and average-to-good at the others. A character with a low Wisdom score might still be pretty good at 'reading' people (skill training and skill focus in Insight), but he might have no "common sense" to speak of. By the same logic, a battlemind with a low Int score isn't necessarily an idiot.


Using this analogy: 'A character with a low Wisdom score might still be pretty good at "reading" people - skill training and skill focus in Insight - but he might have no "common sense" to speak of.'

Then, a character with a low Intelligence score might still be good at 'book learnin' - knowledge skills training and skill focus feats - but might have no 'logic, rational thinking, information analysis, cognition, planning, calculation, and a huge subset of higher brain functions' to speak of.

Still the knowledge could actualize logic flavor, they studied those skills because they have an aptitude for them. So while generally irrational, they have periodic 'geek moments' where they formulate impressive technical deductions from subtle clues. Or the knowledge could signify a photographic memory, sorta like an athlete who knows *all* the statistics.



Reflavoring aside, if players find it difficult to identify with their low-Int characters, then there probably needs to be some kind of Fighter build that benefits from Intelligence. For example, there remains a continuous demand for a Swashbuckler. The eCleric fighting attacking with Wis opens the door wider for a Fighter who benefits significantly from Int, or even a new Martial class that makes Int the primary attack ab.
#28

Omnirahk_half-Rahkshi

Aug 06, 2010 11:49:32

Regarding all the complaints about the battlemind's reliance on physical ability scores and the lack of fluff, here's a possibility.  I even have hope that it may be incorporated in Psionic Power's fluff (assuming they expand upon it).  From the very beginning, battleminds were described as wild talents.  No disciplined study or training guides their style.  Here's my idea: we've always assumed that Con-primary means that folks with high constitution are best at channeling their particular brand of psionic magic.  But what if we've got it reversed?  What if, instead, the high Constitution is a symptom of their power?  Essentially, their body is on psychic steroids.  Even look at the first two builds: one uses psionic power to enhance their resilience, while the other uses it to enhance speed.  Psychic steroids.  I've seen an example somewhere before.  Some superhero - they had his profile along with several others at an amusement park.  His power?  Tactile telekinesis.  Most people thought he was super strong, super fast, super resilient, and could fly.  The truth?  Those were all applications of a limited telekinesis, one that depended on physical contact.  That's what the battlemind is: they may hate on pure martial characters, but the truth is they're compensating.  They know that they use psionics as a crutch.  It's not just that their attacks have more bite from the mind than from the blade.  It's that even the bite from the blade - that's not the strength of their sword arm.  That's the strength of their mind enhancing the strength of their sword arm.  Strip them of their psychic power, and they're the meekest of warriors.  That's one thing that separates battleminds from swordmages.  They both use some kind of magic to enhance their combat prowess.  But if they were engaged in a magic-less duel (and we didn't look to mechanics but fluff for the answer), the swordmage would win.  Take away his magic, and he still knows how to fight.  And he still has his strong sword arm.  The battlemind, not so much.  He's used to taking hits, relying on psionic power to blunt the blow.  Or he dodges aside with superhuman speed.  If I turn away from the psychic steroids metaphor, let's call him a superhero.  He learned to fight with his powers.  Without them, he's nothing.  The swordmage, meanwhile, learned fighting and learned magic, weaving them together into one style.

None of this is official, of course, but that's my take on the battlemind.  And I hope to see something like this in Psionic Power.  Maybe not so harsh at calling them weak without their psionic power, but still, pointing out that it's more ingrained into their combat ability than for even swordmage or warden.  Battleminds have a level of reliance on psychic power that they'd rather not admit.  If they even realize it themselves.

#29

celticmutt

Aug 06, 2010 12:18:03

"I'm a battlemind, I use the power of my mind to do battle."

"But most of your mental stats are dump stats."


Uh .... no they aren't.
#30

The_Jester

Aug 06, 2010 12:35:31

"I'm a battlemind, I use the power of my mind to do battle."

"But most of your mental stats are dump stats."


Uh .... no they aren't.



2/3rds of the builds use a mental stat as a secondary, while the other two mental stats become dump stats. And pretty much every battlemind will likely end-up with an 8 Intelligence. 66% dump does count as "most".
#31

Haldrik

Aug 06, 2010 12:57:08

Exactly. Reverse the direction of fluff.

Omni: 'We assumed Con-primary means folks with high constitution are best at their particular brand of psionic magic.  But what if we've got it reversed?  The high Constitution is a symptom of their power?  Essentially, their body is on psychic steroids.'

In other words, high Con reflects a ki-aura that psychometabolizes the cellular structure of the body. Of course, I hope D&D doesnt use this technobabble! Rather, the ki is the influence of the soul as it entangles a body - and in the case of the Battlemind this influence enchants the body with a polymorph effect or a telekinetic force that enhances physical toughness.

As long as a Psionic class has most builds emphasize a mental ab, its ok if one or two are only physical. Including the Monk class.



Earlier the Sorcerer using Str had a similar flavor issue. It isnt Strength helps one do magic, its the Sorcerer is innately in tune with the magical ideal of Strength that perfuses every aspect of the Sorcerers identity and even via sympathetic magic manifests bodily as physical Strength.

#32

celticmutt

Aug 06, 2010 13:46:01

2/3rds of the builds use a mental stat as a secondary, while the other two mental stats become dump stats. And pretty much every battlemind will likely end-up with an 8 Intelligence. 66% dump does count as "most".


So?  There are a lot of mental classes that can dump every mental stat but their primary stat or a have a physcial primary and single mental secondary and dump the rest.  It doesn't make Battleminds any less mental oriented.
#33

Omnirahk_half-Rahkshi

Aug 06, 2010 13:54:07

Exactly. Reverse the direction of fluff.

Omni: 'We assumed Con-primary means folks with high constitution are best at their particular brand of psionic magic.  But what if we've got it reversed?  The high Constitution is a symptom of their power?  Essentially, their body is on psychic steroids.'

In other words, high Con reflects a ki-aura that psychometabolizes the cellular structure of the body. Of course, I hope D&D doesnt use this technobabble! Rather, the ki is the influence of the soul as it entangles a body - and in the case of the Battlemind this influence enchants the body with a polymorph effect or a telekinetic force that enhances physical toughness.

As long as a Psionic class has most builds emphasize a mental ab, its ok if one or two are only physical. Including the Monk class.



Earlier the Sorcerer using Str had a similar flavor issue. It isnt Strength helps one do magic, its the Sorcerer is innately in tune with the magical ideal of Strength that perfuses every aspect of the Sorcerers identity and even via sympathetic magic manifests bodily as physical Strength.




Thank you Haldrik.  You say it well.  And it never even occurred to me that this argument could extend to the sorcerer as well.  I finally get that sorcerer argument.  Thank you.
#34

Chameleon-X

Aug 06, 2010 15:01:13
I don't buy the Sorcerer thing. Dragon Magic was fine, since they obviously wanted Dragonborn to be good at it, but Cosmic Magic? How is that in any way logical? CON, maybe, I could see, but even that's a stretch. Cosmic should've been an INT build, or even WIS. 

Anyway, I'm watching the Battlemind to see if anything interesting comes up. I'll probably play one eventually, especially if they come out with more powers like lightning rush that doesn't make you waste a standard. I've always been a fan of teleportation, so I might like the Nomad build. 
#35

ADHadh

Aug 06, 2010 15:21:21
Just when I was thinking about designing fighter powers geared toward light armour and high dexterity...
#36

Marandahir

Aug 06, 2010 15:23:23
It's also an optimal build choice for Revenants and Gnolls. >__>
#37

Omnirahk_half-Rahkshi

Aug 06, 2010 15:47:45
You know, seeing the fluff for the Harrier Battlemind, I just get this awesome picture for a daily power: you attack your foe and then step back in time, making a second attack from another position.  Something like:

[Insert clever name]
Daily * Psionic, Teleportation, Weapon
Standard Action * Melee: weapon
Target: one creature
Attack: Con vs AC, 2 attacks
Hit: x[W]+ Con damage.
Special: After the first attack, you teleport to another square adjacent to your opponent and make the second attack.  This second attack is considered to occur at the same time as the first, so you can flank with yourself for the attack.

Alternative language:

Daily * Psionic, Teleportation, Weapon
Standard Action * Melee: weapon
Target: one creature
Effect: You conjure a duplicate of yourself adjacent to the target.  You and the duplicate then both make the following attack:
Attack: Con vs AC
Hit: x[W]+Con damage.
Special: The duplicate lasts until the end of your turn, at which point you teleport to your duplicate's space.

It's actually pretty complicated to establish rules for this power.  But the fluff is awesome.
#38

salla

Aug 06, 2010 15:52:33
You know, seeing the fluff for the Harrier Battlemind, I just get this awesome picture for a daily power: you attack your foe and then step back in time, making a second attack from another position.  Something like:

[Insert clever name]
Daily * Psionic, Teleportation, Weapon
Standard Action * Melee: weapon
Target: one creature
Attack: Con vs AC, 2 attacks
Hit: x[W]+ Con damage.
Special: After the first attack, you teleport to another square adjacent to your opponent and make the second attack.  This second attack is considered to occur at the same time as the first, so you can flank with yourself for the attack.

Alternative language:

Daily * Psionic, Teleportation, Weapon
Standard Action * Melee: weapon
Target: one creature
Effect: You conjure a duplicate of yourself adjacent to the target.  You and the duplicate then both make the following attack:
Attack: Con vs AC
Hit: x[W]+Con damage.
Special: The duplicate lasts until the end of your turn, at which point you teleport to your duplicate's space.

It's actually pretty complicated to establish rules for this power.  But the fluff is awesome.



Hmm.  Wouldn't a basic 'you make a primary attack, teleport to a different square adjacent to the target, make a secondary attack against it, you have combat advantage for both attacks' cover it?

#39

Litigation

Aug 06, 2010 16:02:58
To be fair, the Assassin has been out for a while now... But also to be fair, most people don't count it because it isn't in print...


Most people don't count the Assassin because it's 100% pure, uh ... see the first three letters of its name.
#40

Chameleon-X

Aug 06, 2010 16:22:56
Quote comes after 'cuz of stupid iphone brower issues.

But it's only ass if you're looking for a no-thought DPR robot like the Ranger. Much like the Warlock, Assassins require strategy, planning, and tactics to play effectively. Play a Thief and Ambush Trick every turn if you just want a straight DPSer.

To be fair, the Assassin has been out for a while now... But also to be fair, most people don't count it because it isn't in print...


Most people don't count the Assassin because it's 100% pure, uh ... see the first three letters of its name.



#41

efutch

Aug 06, 2010 16:23:52
To be fair, the Assassin has been out for a while now... But also to be fair, most people don't count it because it isn't in print...


Most people don't count the Assassin because it's 100% pure, uh ... see the first three letters of its name.



Awesome?

I happen to love the Assassin class. It's my 2nd favorite class next to the rogue.

In fact, my assassin/battlemind hybrid is amazing.
#42

mediumd

Aug 06, 2010 16:34:15
I loved the assassin until I noticed the controller hit points and the uneven striker mechanic. I know you can play one as a glass cannon, but that's not my preference for a striker.

Given the harrier build, I'm starting to warm to the idea of a soulknife expressed as a PP instead of a class or subclass. With a PP, we could have monks, ardents, and battleminds breaking out mindblades.
#43

Litigation

Aug 06, 2010 16:34:35
Man, I love when people try to defend a crappy class by saying that it "requires tactics/thought/skill" or whatever.

Look guys: No amount of tactics is going to compensate for the fact that Assassins suck not only at DPR, but also suck at burst damage (see their daily powers, talk about first-order trash). If you like the flavor of the class, fine, but don't come on here and tell me that you're going to overcome the numbers of the game with "superior tactics" because you're not. Especially when I can play a Ranger with "superior tactics" and do way, way, way, WAY better than you ever will.

Also, the Shroud mechanic is a joke. Sorry, but it is. After 4 rounds I get to make my uber-spike damage attack that still doesn't do as much damage as the Ranger does at-will from Round 1. Yay. Yaaaaaaaay.

EDIT: Glass cannon? More like glass pea-shooter. And comparing Assassins to Warlocks is a massive insult to Warlocks. Warlocks actually can put out good damage. Assassins ... can't.
#44

Omnirahk_half-Rahkshi

Aug 06, 2010 16:45:54
You know, seeing the fluff for the Harrier Battlemind, I just get this awesome picture for a daily power: you attack your foe and then step back in time, making a second attack from another position.  Something like:

[Insert clever name]
Daily * Psionic, Teleportation, Weapon
Standard Action * Melee: weapon
Target: one creature
Attack: Con vs AC, 2 attacks
Hit: x[W]+ Con damage.
Special: After the first attack, you teleport to another square adjacent to your opponent and make the second attack.  This second attack is considered to occur at the same time as the first, so you can flank with yourself for the attack.

Alternative language:

Daily * Psionic, Teleportation, Weapon
Standard Action * Melee: weapon
Target: one creature
Effect: You conjure a duplicate of yourself adjacent to the target.  You and the duplicate then both make the following attack:
Attack: Con vs AC
Hit: x[W]+Con damage.
Special: The duplicate lasts until the end of your turn, at which point you teleport to your duplicate's space.

It's actually pretty complicated to establish rules for this power.  But the fluff is awesome.



Hmm.  Wouldn't a basic 'you make a primary attack, teleport to a different square adjacent to the target, make a secondary attack against it, you have combat advantage for both attacks' cover it?




D'oh!  That works.
#45

efutch

Aug 06, 2010 17:12:51
Man, I love when people try to defend a crappy class by saying that it "requires tactics/thought/skill" or whatever.

Look guys: No amount of tactics is going to compensate for the fact that Assassins suck not only at DPR, but also suck at burst damage (see their daily powers, talk about first-order trash). If you like the flavor of the class, fine, but don't come on here and tell me that you're going to overcome the numbers of the game with "superior tactics" because you're not. Especially when I can play a Ranger with "superior tactics" and do way, way, way, WAY better than you ever will.

Also, the Shroud mechanic is a joke. Sorry, but it is. After 4 rounds I get to make my uber-spike damage attack that still doesn't do as much damage as the Ranger does at-will from Round 1. Yay. Yaaaaaaaay.

EDIT: Glass cannon? More like glass pea-shooter. And comparing Assassins to Warlocks is a massive insult to Warlocks. Warlocks actually can put out good damage. Assassins ... can't.



Sorry. Was not aware I was unallowed to enjoy the class. Point taken.
#46

celticmutt

Aug 06, 2010 18:45:33
I don't buy the Sorcerer thing. Dragon Magic was fine, since they obviously wanted Dragonborn to be good at it, but Cosmic Magic? How is that in any way logical? CON, maybe, I could see, but even that's a stretch. Cosmic should've been an INT build, or even WIS.


Nope, Strength.

See, Cosmic Sorcerer = Power Cosmic, and as we all know, wielders of the Power Cosmic are super strong.
#47

Marandahir

Aug 07, 2010 11:23:23
I don't buy the Sorcerer thing. Dragon Magic was fine, since they obviously wanted Dragonborn to be good at it, but Cosmic Magic? How is that in any way logical? CON, maybe, I could see, but even that's a stretch. Cosmic should've been an INT build, or even WIS.


Nope, Strength.

See, Cosmic Sorcerer = Power Cosmic, and as we all know, wielders of the Power Cosmic are super strong.



Also, PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWAAAAAAAA
itty bitty living space
It takes a lot of Strength to move the heavens.  In fact, it takes the Force of One Thousand Suns!
#48

Duskweaver

Aug 08, 2010 5:27:20
I like the idea of a cosmic sorcerer simulating super-strength by manipulating the local gravitational field.

It's always seemed pretty obvious to me that high-strength sorcerers might be using their magic to make themselves strong, rather than using natural strength to fuel their magic. Just look at the art in PHB2 for the Dragonsoul Heir. Now, that young half-elf lady is very attractive and all but, as a paragon-tier dragon sorceress, her Strength score is probably around 20 or so, and it's pretty obviously not coming from natural muscle power!