Anyway, what I'm getting at is that with a striker class having a way to augment its damage output, I can't help shake the feeling that it would end up outshining other striker classes. I imagine that such a class would be very difficult to balance against other strikers, and would therefore be either utterly subpar in an attempt to keep it tame, or it would end up as the CharOp favorite for damage per round.
Not to mention, it would just make for one more reason (along with certain superb daily powers) to reinstante the concept of the 5 minute work day in 4th edition.
So, personally, I think I'll be happier if we don't see a psionic class with power points to augment its powers (unless the augments are purely rider effects and not damage). What does everyone else think?
Anyway, what I'm getting at is that with a striker class having a way to augment its damage output, I can't help shake the feeling that it would end up outshining other striker classes. I imagine that such a class would be very difficult to balance against other strikers, and would therefore be either utterly subpar in an attempt to keep it tame, or it would end up as the CharOp favorite for damage per round.
So, personally, I think I'll be happier if we don't see a psionic class with power points to augment its powers (unless the augments are purely rider effects and not damage). What does everyone else think?
. . . why? A Psion who uses all his Power Points in an encounter is roughly equivalent to a typical class using all of their Encounter powers, so I don't see what would make a Psionic Striker inherently more powerful. Because Power Points refresh with a short rest (refresh me if I'm wrong, haven't played since before Christmas), it's no different from other classes.
If the Striker is secondary controller, for example, the augment might allow more control elements into his already Spiked damage.
I like to think of psylocke as a psionic striker. Stabbing people with blades of psychic energy. That's some fluff that the monk just can't touch.
I'm imagining the "massive brute force" style of telekinesis from a few of my favorite sources: Psi-Ops (such a great game - and available for free now on PC), Push (I think I'm one of 2 people who loved that movie), and to a lesser extent, Bioshock.
Really I think the "movers" from Push give enough of a strong visual set of attacks and other abilities.
EDIT: (Links! At about 4:15 on this one (youtube link); At about 2:25 in this one (youtube link again), plus some of my favorite mind-affecting-power uses later on.)
The best we can hope for is that one of the PHB3 or Darksun races will have an Elemental Empowerment style feat that can turn the Psion into a quasi-striker or that the telekinetic Psion powers will have some useful damage keywords to work with and not all be force damage.
Sadly, baring any sort of DDI exclusive class thing, we probably won't see another psionic class introduced for over a year. And even then it'll probably be the damn soulblade/lurk melee class everyone seems to want and not a caster (I swear, it seems like WoTC has just given up making caster strikers).
I'm hoping that WotC drives the nail in the "Soulknife as a full class!" line-of-thought in Psionic Power (if not there, then Dragon somewhere), with either a "mind blade" alternate feature for the Monk, or a "soulknife" build.
It seems strange to me that so many folks seem to dislike the Ardent for being "Psionic X" [where X = Warlord], but will often go on to say that they want the Lurk (which I remember as "Psionic X" [where X = Rogue] to get the full-class treatment.
The best we can hope for is that one of the PHB3 or Darksun races will have an Elemental Empowerment style feat that can turn the Psion into a quasi-striker or that the telekinetic Psion powers will have some useful damage keywords to work with and not all be force damage.
Fair enough. Something as simple as "Pyrokineticist: Your Psion powers with the Force keyword that deal Force damage gain the Fire keyword, and deal Fire and Force damage."
I'm hoping that WotC drives the nail in the "Soulknife as a full class!" line-of-thought in Psionic Power (if not there, then Dragon somewhere), with either a "mind blade" alternate feature for the Monk, or a "soulknife" build.
Bah that won't kill the idea. We already have a PP for the Assassin that is capable of creating a "mindblade". It fails to cover the ideas that should go into a "soulknife class". I seriously doubt that they would make a monk build that managed to cover the ideas. Of course psionics is a bad fit for a "soulknife class", so I'm expecting(hoping) that it will come out reskinned as an elemental class.
I'm hoping that WotC drives the nail in the "Soulknife as a full class!" line-of-thought in Psionic Power (if not there, then Dragon somewhere), with either a "mind blade" alternate feature for the Monk, or a "soulknife" build.
Bah that won't kill the idea. We already have a PP for the Assassin that is capable of creating a "mindblade". It fails to cover the ideas that should go into a "soulknife class". I seriously doubt that they would make a monk build that managed to cover the ideas. Of course psionics is a bad fit for a "soulknife class", so I'm expecting(hoping) that it will come out reskinned as an elemental class.
Um... the soulknife is a psionic class idea, thats where the class started.
Um... the soulknife is a psionic class idea, thats where the class started.
So? The Druid was a divine class idea as that was where it was started in previous editions. That doesn't make it wrong that it became a primal class in 4ed. Besides my idea for what a "soulknife class" entails goes a bit beyond what the roots of the 3ed class go.
Um... the soulknife is a psionic class idea, thats where the class started.
So? The Druid was a divine class idea as that was where it was started in previous editions. That doesn't make it wrong that it became a primal class in 4ed. Besides my idea for what a "soulknife class" entails goes a bit beyond what the roots of the 3ed class go.
Druid was always Primal in the sense that Primal was a subset of Divine. The only Primal class that didn't have Divine spells was Barbarian, and that can be forgiven in that spellcasting was the only true dilineation of what power source you used (divine, arcane, or neither, with three more magic sources coming for a class each in Tome of Magic).
Druid really isn't relevant to the placement of Soulknife. As it is, Soulknife is an inherently Psionic concept, moreso than ever since Psionic ate Ki, which was where the debate over the placement of the class was.
Now, if you want to make a class that shapes a blade from raw elements, that's fine by me. But it's not a soulknife, it's a chaosknife or whatnot. The Soulknife particularly creates a weapon from within themselves, from their inner spiritual energy. That is a destinctly psionic concept.
Whether it be a Psionic PPath, a build of the Monk, or a whole Psionic class, it's a Psionic concept, and by stripping away the Psionic element from it, it's no longer really a Soulknife.
Shaper/Incarnum classes are somewhat different, however, and I'd be happy to see them wrapped into Elemental. We could even have a Bladeshaper that is elemental, and covers this sort of "create a blade from raw elements."
But it's kinda hard to justify a soulknife as being elemental, in my honest opinion.
It fails to cover the ideas that should go into a "soulknife class". I seriously doubt that they would make a monk build that managed to cover the ideas.
If "soulknife class" means some kind of translation of the concepts from the 3.x soulknife class (which I think it usually does), then while yes, they might not make a monk build for it, but it would be a perfect fit. Or really, just give a "mind blade" feature option (would replace Monk Unarmed Strike), and a paragon path. "Soulknife" can easily be covered by a Monk, or a Monk/Rogue, so long as there is a mindblade option (and it is a light blade + light thrown weapon).
Of course psionics is a bad fit for a "soulknife class", so I'm expecting(hoping) that it will come out reskinned as an elemental class.
Bwuh?
I'm... thinking your idea of a "soulknife class" isn't anything like the one that other folks are envisioning, if psionics is a bad fit for it.
Not Really About Psionic Strikers Anymore, But...
Y'know, if that was how they decided to build an "Elemental" power source (eating Incarnum), I... I could see potential in that. That would be enough structure that I think I could say I would look forward to that.
Hm.
Shaper/Incarnum classes are somewhat different, however, and I'd be happy to see them wrapped into Elemental. We could even have a Bladeshaper that is elemental, and covers this sort of "create a blade from raw elements."
Y'know, if that was how they decided to build an "Elemental" power source (eating Incarnum), I... I could see potential in that. That would be enough structure that I think I could say I would look forward to that.
Hm.
Um... the soulknife is a psionic class idea, thats where the class started.
So? The Druid was a divine class idea as that was where it was started in previous editions. That doesn't make it wrong that it became a primal class in 4ed. Besides my idea for what a "soulknife class" entails goes a bit beyond what the roots of the 3ed class go.
Druid was always Primal in the sense that Primal was a subset of Divine. The only Primal class that didn't have Divine spells was Barbarian, and that can be forgiven in that spellcasting was the only true dilineation of what power source you used (divine, arcane, or neither, with three more magic sources coming for a class each in Tome of Magic).
Druid really isn't relevant to the placement of Soulknife. As it is, Soulknife is an inherently Psionic concept, moreso than ever since Psionic ate Ki, which was where the debate over the placement of the class was.
Now, if you want to make a class that shapes a blade from raw elements, that's fine by me. But it's not a soulknife, it's a chaosknife or whatnot. The Soulknife particularly creates a weapon from within themselves, from their inner spiritual energy. That is a destinctly psionic concept.
Whether it be a Psionic PPath, a build of the Monk, or a whole Psionic class, it's a Psionic concept, and by stripping away the Psionic element from it, it's no longer really a Soulknife.
Shaper/Incarnum classes are somewhat different, however, and I'd be happy to see them wrapped into Elemental. We could even have a Bladeshaper that is elemental, and covers this sort of "create a blade from raw elements."
But it's kinda hard to justify a soulknife as being elemental, in my honest opinion.
+1
I've had the idea for an elemental defender/striker who weilds raw elements to make weapons and armor and such from. I like it more as a striker now since i came up with the idea of a "walking nuke" defender (think Avatar last air bender final battle with elements swirling and what not).
Sadly, baring any sort of DDI exclusive class thing, we probably won't see another psionic class introduced for over a year. And even then it'll probably be the damn soulblade/lurk melee class everyone seems to want and not a caster (I swear, it seems like WoTC has just given up making caster strikers).
The best we can hope for is that one of the PHB3 or Darksun races will have an Elemental Empowerment style feat that can turn the Psion into a quasi-striker or that the telekinetic Psion powers will have some useful damage keywords to work with and not all be force damage.
4e's only been out 2 years. Last year, we had the Sorcerer and Assassin. That somehow makes you think WotC has given up on caster strikers?
Bah that won't kill the idea. We already have a PP for the Assassin that is capable of creating a "mindblade". It fails to cover the ideas that should go into a "soulknife class". I seriously doubt that they would make a monk build that managed to cover the ideas. Of course psionics is a bad fit for a "soulknife class", so I'm expecting(hoping) that it will come out reskinned as an elemental class.
The soulknife is based off Psylocke ... a psychic ...
So? The Druid was a divine class idea as that was where it was started in previous editions. That doesn't make it wrong that it became a primal class in 4ed. Besides my idea for what a "soulknife class" entails goes a bit beyond what the roots of the 3ed class go.
Ok I just realized that this discussion is taking place in a different thread then I thought it was. So rather than continue to derail this thread, I'm going to bow out of this and apologize for starting to derail the thread. I maintain my position, but I do not feel like getting into a dragged out debate over this in a thread unrelated to the issue(or really even one related to the issue). I'd ask that people from this point just ignore my previous posts. Thank you.
The soulknife is based off Psylocke ... a psychic ...
No love for Kuwabara?, who is also a psychic.
Seriously though, the striker damage from a class is generally based on a class feature that in enhances damage from a attack. The barbarian is the only class that I know of that breaks this. So simply adding a Psychic Strike class feature should allow striker damage.