Dude, check out the homebrew section. There's plenty of user created psi material to switch right now.
There's not really that much. Much less than I would have expected, anyways.
PHB III
-Ardent = Psionic Defender
-Empath = Psionic Leader
-Illusionist = Shadow Controller
-Monk = Ki Striker
-Necromancer = Shadow Leader
-Sohei/Soulknife = Ki Defender
-Shaper/Wilder = Psionic Controller
-Telepath/Kineticist = Psionic Striker
The reason I don't see a class being called Psion, is since the power source is called Psionic, it would be like having an Arcane class called Arca, and Psychic Warrior is a two word title, and 4th Ed classes only have one word titles (and it seems a tad generic).
In April we are going to get an article of Dragon Magazine featuring the Assassin. Many people suspect this will be a class that use the Shadow Power source. This article will have the same type of style than the Gladiator article. So maybe, we won't see in the feature an Assassin class in a book.
Source: Bill Slavicsek, D&D Insider, Feb 11, 2009
Not that it matters hugely, since power source is just fluff anyway. Just saying.
Does anyone else feel that psionic and ki power sources would be kind of redundant? I mean, they're both using your natural, mental power to do stuff. One is just more internal, and the other more external. Unless they come up with some fresh fluff for psionics, I'd rather the two be consolidated.
Well, Ki is the magic/power of the Soul, and Psionics is the magic/power of the Mind, so you have sort of a triad of the power of the Mind (Psionics), Body (Martial) and Soul (Ki).
So I see them as very different, Ki has been confirmed as very Wuxia, so it should be markedly different from Psionics.
I expect psionics to get into 4E in the PHB3 (along with the shadow and ki power sources). It would pretty much complete the kind of material typically seen in Eberron games (the setting is released this summer) and provides useful material for Dark Sun, which is a highly possible setting for 2010.
Do we already know what classes are in the Eberron Campaign setting? Maybe we will see some PSI goodness in there?
Well, Ki is the magic/power of the Soul, and Psionics is the magic/power of the Mind, so you have sort of a triad of the power of the Mind (Psionics), Body (Martial) and Soul (Ki).
So I see them as very different, Ki has been confirmed as very Wuxia, so it should be markedly different from Psionics.
And WTF is Wuxia?
And WTF is Wuxia?
I believe it translates in Chinese roughly to: Flying Men.
I've provided one of thousands of links on the subject below; and also ask pretty much anyone on these boards and they will probably pontificate for days about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuxia
Do we already know what classes are in the Eberron Campaign setting? Maybe we will see some PSI goodness in there?
There is only one class in ECS and it is the artificer.
I'm wondering what TV Series / Films / Books / Games / Comics / Whatever present what you see as the "psionic power source" in a way that you like (sort of along the lines of "good films to watch" that were listed in the Eberron campaign setting)?
Just tossing out a few...
- Dark City (film)
- Push (film) (Which I see as a distillation / adaptation of...)
- Heroes (tv series) (Which I see as a distillation / adaptation of...)
- Marvel Universe (comics)
- Psi-Ops (videogame)
- Starcraft (videogame)
- Star Wars (films)
Certainly not all the best examples, but I feel that many of them create a pretty good representation of at least some styles of "powers."
My current speculations (nothing more):
PHB III
-Ardent = Psionic Defender
-Empath = Psionic Leader
-Illusionist = Shadow Controller
-Monk = Ki Striker
-Necromancer = Shadow Leader
-Sohei/Soulknife = Ki Defender
-Shaper/Wilder = Psionic Controller
-Telepath/Kineticist = Psionic Striker
The reason I don't see a class being called Psion, is since the power source is called Psionic, it would be like having an Arcane class called Arca, and Psychic Warrior is a two word title, and 4th Ed classes only have one word titles (and it seems a tad generic).
I have to disagree on a few.
I think we'll see the something along the lines of:
-Ardent or Empath = Psionic Leader (maybe combined)
-Psychic Warrior = Psionic Defender
-Soulknife = Psionic Striker (melee, taking some notes from the nomad)
-Wilder (taking some notes from kineticest) = Psionic Striker (ranged)
-Shaper/Telepath = Psionic Controller (combined)
We might even see some kind of hybrid between soulknife, nomad and wilder. The soulknife side representing a melee build and the wilder representing the ranged build while both have some nomad-like mobility and utility stuff. For the Ardent/Empath I could see an empath build using Con as a secondary while the Ardent might use Str or Charisma as a secondary.
Shaper/Telepath is pretty easy too. Shaper could be creating obstuctions and ectoplasmic constructs to control the battlefield while the telepath just shuts people down. Dex/Cha secondaries respectively.
-Psychic Warrior = Psionic Defender
-Soulknife = Psionic Striker (melee, taking some notes from the nomad)
-As WotC has stated class names will be one word titles, I doubt we'll see Psychic Warrior, plus, doesn't it sound a bit generic?
-Soulknife might be a better candidate for the KI power source.
You might be right on the 2 word class names but then again they're also known to not follow their own rules and justify it with the exceptions rule.
While the ardent could make a good defender and was the only other heavily armored psionic user, I've always had a soft spot for the Psychic Warrior (though never had the chance to actually PLAY one). The 3.5 ardent could easily be adapted into a defender with leader qulaities or a leader with defender qualities.
The empath would certainly give us a new way of healing if they kept the flavor of the empathic healing intact...but with the healing surge mechanic, I don't quite see how they'll do that.
I just hope we see a balanced 4e translation of the Thrallherd. How I loved that class. The base mechanics could be similar to the Beastmaster Ranger too.
To be honest, I don't know where you're getting the correlation between Soulknife, a psionic class, and the Ki Power Source.
Because Ki is now the power of the soul, so, Soulknife.
Unless they change the class title to Mindknife/Mindblade.
I've always had a soft spot for the Psychic Warrior (though never had the chance to actually PLAY one). The 3.5 ardent could easily be adapted into a defender with leader qulaities or a leader with defender qualities.
Me too. And if you look at the Githyanki 'monsters' in the MM you'll notice they're very Psychic Warrior-esk. With telekenetic jumping, TK pushes, and good martial skill. I'm actually very excited with this style build coming in the future.
As for Ardent, yes; the class was the Psionic Leader in 3.5e. However, Empath has all but been confirmed as the Psionic Leader (and has been confirmed as a Psionic Class). Ardent is a word related to Ardour (or Fire), and thus it could be reused to refer to a warrior powered by his strength of will. Thus a Defender. I see no problems with reflavouring and recrunching old names for new concepts. Archons used to be Lawful Good Hound-headed Angels, remember.
I highly expect that if they keep the theme of the Soulknife as a Psionic Class, it'll be changed in name to reflect the dichotomy between Ki and Psionics, and thus be called Mindblade or something, as Steely_Dan mentioned.
As for Ardent, yes; the class was the Psionic Leader in 3.5e. However, Empath has all but been confirmed as the Psionic Leader (and has been confirmed as a Psionic Class). Ardent is a word related to Ardour (or Fire), and thus it could be reused to refer to a warrior powered by his strength of will. Thus a Defender. I see no problems with reflavouring and recrunching old names for new concepts. Archons used to be Lawful Good Hound-headed Angels, remember.
As someone unfamiliar to 3e psionics, what's the draw or uniqueness compared to regular Arcane magic, what separates pyrokinesis from fireball or telekinisis from Mage Hand- would the classes have any unique features like wildshape?
I know the power management was different back in the day, but beyond that is it just the psychic damage type, lots of will targeting, and maybe some dominate powers? What are people expecting beyond some nostalgic class names?
Because Ki is now the power of the soul, so, Soulknife.
Unless they change the class title to Mindknife/Mindblade.
I wouldn't get too caught up on the name. Keep in mind that a Soulknife used psionic ability to create the weapon and enhance it. I think that moving this into the ki power source would infringe on what we think of as the monk.
Granted, this is all still highly speculative, I just don't see it happening that way. The weapon was called a mindblade after all.
the class had tons of flavor. If it were to be kept, we might even see it geting mixed with aspects of the Lurk. That was another good striker type class that was largely dismissed as "Psionic X" but given the new powers system could be a funtional striker.
I still hope we see the soulknife. Being one of the favored classes of the Kalashtar (are they even going to be around in the new Eberron?), I sure hope they continue to have a place.
1.) I wouldn't get too caught up on the name.
2.) The weapon was called a mindblade after all.
3.) If it were to be kept, we might even see it geting mixed with aspects of the Lurk.
1.) I can guarantee you there will not be the word "soul" in the title of any class that is not Ki.
2.) Okay, change it to Soulblade, done.
3.) Cool, but if they release another class called "Lurk" I will throw up in my mouth a little bit.
I'm not big on Psionic's myself, but that's just me. I'd be interested to hear other peoples POV though.
What is the draw towards Psionic's over say more classical forms of medieval fantasy, like old fashioned magic?
A good question but one that's hard to answer. But I'll break it down as best I can:
1. There has always been a type of "mind magic" in various sources from th early days of fantasy storytelling. It was lumped in with magic in general but slowly started moving out as its own type of power around the height of late 60's era sci-fi and lo was born Psionics. Only recently has the concept been coached in the realm of science but even today it amounts to little more than mind magic with a psudo sci-fi explination.
2. The Dying Earth genre among others, has loads of science is magic and magic is science themes that play well. Dark Sun actually pays closer hommage to the Vance classic and the Psionic's of the setting thematically is great to use for a variation from the Tolkeen style fantasy. Dying Earth at wikipedia.
3. Anime has recently influcence a lot of american thought on the subject of fantasy and sci-fi. Some recent works such as "Escaflowne" trip into the very sci-fi works of psionic powers and strange mental permiatations.
4. Psionics is a fun varational power. Much the same argument works for Primal, Ki, and Elemental powers. It's just something different.
Just a few thoughts to start you out with.
Akira had psychic power though, as did E.Y.E.S of Mars. Functionally though, they worked like magic with less gestures and words and more funny facial expressions- which is part of why I don't see why it has so many fans.
5. Because it isn't traditionally part of fantasy. This is one of the big reasons I like Psionics. I have always enjoyed mixing genres, and as such Psionics is one aspect of this. (Sorta like #2)
6. It has since the turn of the 20th century (Spiritualism) been one of the most common forms of supernatural potential in modern folklore/myths. As such too it has a wide range to in fiction from Carrie to Medium.
There was psionics in Scrapped Princess? I saw lots of incantation casting, "pacting" with "dragons", and "angels" that could invoke mind control as part of the "religion" but I really don't remember anything I'd call psychic power.
Scrapped Princess was more magic as technology in my example so it might have been a bad choice with out explination. So I removed it.
There was psionics in Scrapped Princess? I saw lots of incantation casting, "pacting" with "dragons", and "angels" that could invoke mind control as part of the "religion" but I really don't remember anything I'd call psychic power.
Akira had psychic power though, as did E.Y.E.S of Mars. Functionally though, they worked like magic with less gestures and words and more funny facial expressions- which is part of why I don't see why it has so many fans.
I have no idea what in the world you're talking about.
I have no idea what in the world you're talking about.
Watch more Anime my friend. Watch more Anime. It's far more than DBZ, Sailormoon, and Gundam. Though I happen to like those 3 as well.
Watch more Anime my friend. Watch more Anime. It's far more than DBZ, Sailormoon, and Gundam. Though I happen to like those 3 as well.
Oh, HELL no.
Oh, HELL no.
TESTSUO!!!
NEO*TOKYO IS ABOUT TO BE PWND!
There is only one class in ECS and it is the artificer.
Hey, that is news. Would you mind sharing the source of this with the rest of us? I myself was still hoping for a little psi in the EBPG. Is is a essential part of the Eberron and I hope it will be part of the adventure that will come out this year.
Actually I am getting annoyed by the power sources. Why shouldn't there be classes that tap multiple power sources like martial and devine or shadow and arcane? Illusionist powers have the psychic keyword, right? Isn't the Warlocks Dark-pakt pretty similar to the shadow PS? A basic attack or bull rush is very martial if you ask me.
I think this one class one source system has created needless symmetry again, which was said to be one of the concepts the designers wanted to remove from DnD with this edition (->Worlds and Monsters).
Hey, that is news. Would you mind sharing the source of this with the rest of us? I myself was still hoping for a little psi in the EBPG. Is is a essential part of the Eberron and I hope it will be part of the adventure that will come out this year.
Actually I am getting annoyed by the power sources. Why shouldn't there be classes that tap multiple power sources like martial and devine or shadow and arcane? Illusionist powers have the psychic keyword, right? Isn't the Warlocks Dark-pakt pretty similar to the shadow PS?
I think this one class one source system has created needless symmetry again, which was said to be one of the concepts the designers wanted to remove from DnD with this edition (->Worlds and Monsters).
Why should there be?
Now that I'm done with that, there is one example. There's a PP for Warlords in Manual of the Planes that has a power with the Shadow keyword.
We don't know if Illusionist powers will have the psychic keyword (they may be shadow), or if the Dark Pact will be anything like Shadow, since we haven't seen (with the one aforementioned example) anything that uses the Shadow power source.
If you want to mix powersources, Multiclass and done.
I think this one class one source system has created needless symmetry again, which was said to be one of the concepts the designers wanted to remove from DnD with this edition (->Worlds and Monsters).
Eh. Needless Symmetry is fun though. It gave us the Warden, and he's sexy sliced toast with butter. Mmmm...toast.
Eh. Needless Symmetry is fun though. It gave us the Warden, and he's sexy sliced toast with butter. Mmmm...toast.
Pfft, the Warden is better then just toast with butter. He is French toast :D
Pfft, the Warden is better then just toast with butter. He is French toast :D
Oui, mon ami.
Why should there be?
I am not sure sure what this question is referring to.
We don't know if Illusionist powers will have the psychic keyword (they may be shadow), or if the Dark Pact will be anything like Shadow, since we haven't seen (with the one aforementioned example) anything that uses the Shadow power source.
Well, the Illusionist powers in the Dragon article had the psychic keyword, but then again, it could be something different from the "psi"-keyword. Since we have not seen class with the psi power sourse.
If you want to mix powersources, Multiclass and done.
That not what I meant. I don't need or want them, it is that to me a paladin feels mixed, both martial and devine. And besides Multiclassing is not very good implemented compared to previous classes.
It gave us the Warden, and he's sexy sliced toast with butter.
Are you there there could not have been a Warden without the class. For sure there has been a demand for another defender.
Well, the Illusionist powers in the Dragon article had the psychic keyword, but then again, it could be something different from the "psi"-keyword. Since we have not seen class with the psi power sourse.
1. Those were not illusionist powers, those were wizard powers, which makes them arcane.
2. Psychic is a damage type, not to be confused with psionic, a power source.
1. Those were not illusionist powers, those were wizard powers, which makes them arcane.
2. Psychic is a damage type, not to be confused with psionic, a power source.
1. Do you believe there will be a special illusionist class outside of the wizard class? I know it was originally announced that the illusionist would have the shadow power source, but the dragon article and the comming arcane powers could suggest otherwise.
2. True and it also feels very different, but I would be surprised if the the psionic classes had many powers without the psychic keyword.
Just asking again, is there any official information that there will be only one class in the EBPG?
1. Do you believe there will be a special illusionist class outside of the wizard class?
Yes, probably using the Shadow power source. Pure speculation, however.
2. True and it also feels very different, but I would be surprised if the the psionic classes had many powers without the psychic keyword.
Probably true, though telekinesis would probably be Force for damage type, and if they do anything pyrokinetic, well, that's fire.
Just asking again, is there any official information that there will be only one class in the EBPG?
The New Releases page for the EPG(http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/9780786951000) says it features 'A new class', singular.
The New Releases page for the EPG(http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/9780786951000) says it features 'A new class', singular.
Ok, that's it. I will stop playing D&D now and forever!
In deep disappoitment
SoldSoul
Ok, that's it. I will stop playing D&D now and forever!
In deep disappoitment
SoldSoul
Eh. Psionics will probably be in the PH3.
Ok, that's it. I will stop playing D&D now and forever!
In deep disappoitment
SoldSoul
Forgotten Realms had only one new class, the Swordmage.
And one new pact for the Warlock and the Spellscarred multiclass feat.
Eberron may have the same type of stuff.
Bel
Do you believe there will be a special illusionist class outside of the wizard class?
Like Salla, yes, and I believe it will be a Shadow Controller (in the PHB III).
Psionics will probably be in the PH3.
Yeah, I'm thinking the PHB III will have 4 Psionic, 2 Ki, and 2 Shadow classes.
Eh. Psionics will probably be in the PH3.
Perhaps I need psionics for the Eberron campaign that I planned. Well, the new Eberron might not have psionics anymore, who knows.
That the Spellscared is just a 4E-FR rip-off of Eberron was appearant.
Ahhh... I didn't want to post anymore.
Hey, that is news. Would you mind sharing the source of this with the rest of us? I myself was still hoping for a little psi in the EBPG. Is is a essential part of the Eberron and I hope it will be part of the adventure that will come out this year.
Actually I am getting annoyed by the power sources. Why shouldn't there be classes that tap multiple power sources like martial and devine or shadow and arcane? Illusionist powers have the psychic keyword, right? Isn't the Warlocks Dark-pakt pretty similar to the shadow PS? A basic attack or bull rush is very martial if you ask me.
I think this one class one source system has created needless symmetry again, which was said to be one of the concepts the designers wanted to remove from DnD with this edition (->Worlds and Monsters).
It isn't like my sources are secret, I have a topic thqat lists them out. Anyways here is the catalog entry for EPG:
The Eberron Player's Guide features a new class (the Artificier), new race options, paragon paths and epic destinies, character backgrounds, feats, powers, rituals, magic items, and new rules for dragonmarks.
As for your comment about a basic attack ad bull rush being martial, those are too basic to draw upon the martial power source. The martial power source is exceeding the natural limitations of your body by training your body to superhuman levels.
1. Do you believe there will be a special illusionist class outside of the wizard class? I know it was originally announced that the illusionist would have the shadow power source, but the dragon article and the comming arcane powers could suggest otherwise.
2. True and it also feels very different, but I would be surprised if the the psionic classes had many powers without the psychic keyword.
Just asking again, is there any official information that there will be only one class in the EBPG?
There are multiple power sources that can get the same effect. In Open Grave it makes mention in a side bar that undead can originate from 5 of the 8 power sources(arcane, divine, shadow, ki, and psionic). However there is still heavy speculation that there will be a shadow based necromancer class as that is the power source most adept at making them. Just becasue arcane is capable of creating illusions, doesn't mean that the shadow power source is incapable of producing a class exceling at them.
It's magic without the theatrics. No waving your hands around, no talking gibberish, no pouring over ancient tomes, no secret power of the cosmos.
All you have to do is bend your thoughts into the right shape.
Psi effects are more "natural", for lack of a better word. If a Psi character wants to grab the key for his cell, he wills it to come to him, whereas a wizard creates an amazing floating hand.
Psi characters have more control over thier powers. A pyrokinetic can bend and shape the flame he creates as much as he wants, whereas a wizard's flame is defined by the spell he casts.
Characters only have one power source because:
More than anything, a class's source defines how he gains his powers. A paladin may use a blade in his powers, but they work because a diety granted him access to the divine source. His skill doesn't enter into it.
@ SoldSoul: Are you GMing? Remember only PCs have power sources.
Wow, I sound like an **** in this post. Apologies.
Well, Ki is the magic/power of the Soul, and Psionics is the magic/power of the Mind, so you have sort of a triad of the power of the Mind (Psionics), Body (Martial) and Soul (Ki).
So I see them as very different, Ki has been confirmed as very Wuxia, so it should be markedly different from Psionics.
Psionics and soul are the same thing. Look it up, they both run circles around each other in context. Ki is pretty much the same thing as soul/psionic, except it focuses on the body holding the soul and not the mind.
So really its just potato or potato, your splitting hairs.
Psionics and soul are the same thing. Look it up, they both run circles around each other in context. Ki is pretty much the same thing as soul/psionic, except it focuses on the body holding the soul and not the mind.
So really its just potato or potato, your splitting hairs.
Depends on how you look at it. In D&D, at least, minds and souls are definitely two different things. One possible difference is that psionics will be more external, and ki will be internal; psionics does things to other people (reads minds, telekinetically moves stuff, etc) and ki does things to yourself (bursts of speed, enhanced melee attacks).
Psionics and soul are the same thing. Look it up, they both run circles around each other in context. Ki is pretty much the same thing as soul/psionic, except it focuses on the body holding the soul and not the mind.
So really its just potato or potato, your splitting hairs.
Not at all, Ki and Psionic are separate power sources in 4th Ed, whether you like it or not:
-Ki = power of the soul.
-Psionic = power of the mind.
But we all know what you're trying to do.
-Ki = power of the soul.
-Psionic = power of the mind.
But we all know what you're trying to do.
Now, now. Be nice. Take it this way. Systematically Ki, Psionics, Magic of any sorts can be muddled into the same source. The same power type. It's "special effect" the power.
But there is enough Thematic differences between Ki, Psi, Magic that they can be treated differently.
Systematically Ki, Psionics, Magic of any sorts can be muddled into the same source. The same power type. It's "special effect" the power.
Of course, we could have just one power source: Power.
Of course, we could have just one power source: Power.
"What does the scouter say about his power level?"
"IT'S OVER 9000!!!!!"