I just started reading Heroes of Fallen Lands and I’m enjoying it. The books has a summary of the basic rules that players will need. I’m not sure if a player would even need the Rules Compendium to play, though it might help.
Anyway, my question is about Heroes of Forgotten Kingdoms coming out in November I think. Will this book also have the basic rules included? Or will a player need Fallen Lands or the Rules Compendium to get the basics? Anyone know?
I mean, they are the Kingdoms that have been Forgotten, right?
BTW, are we to expect setting information or other fluff about Bael Turag and Arkhosia in HotFK?
It would be difficult to avoid, given that dragonborn and tieflings are in the book.
It's likely that it will be a duplication of HotFL other than the Race and Class content. This would be so that either book could be a standalone book for new players.
That doesn't seem likely to me. I'd bank on slightly-more-advanced rules, new feats, and so on.
It's likely that it will be a duplication of HotFL other than the Race and Class content. This would be so that either book could be a standalone book for new players.
That doesn't seem likely to me. I'd bank on slightly-more-advanced rules, new feats, and so on.
More feats, yes please!
I can understand making HotFK a stand-alone book for new players, but existing players will be annoyed when half of their "new" book is content that they already have. Possibly in duplicate already (PHB and HotFL). I know, I'm one of them.
With the lower price of HotFL/HotFK, it would make more sense to me if they mirrored PHB/PHB2. The first book has all the basic stuff, rules, etc., while the second one provides more options (mostly in the form of new class builds, but also feats, etc. that other classes can use). If a new player is serious/knowledgeable enough that they want to play a Druid or Warlock, they should have enough of an understanding of the game to realize that the other book has the rules in it. And again, it's not like buying both books will set you back much.
It's likely that it will be a duplication of HotFL other than the Race and Class content. This would be so that either book could be a standalone book for new players.
That doesn't seem likely to me. I'd bank on slightly-more-advanced rules, new feats, and so on.
That's about what i think. HoFL is the first, and simplier version, HoFK, while comming alphabeticly first, will have the more advanced stuff.
On the one hand, let's say you have three players all of whom want to play D&D together. One decided to be DM, the other two player. One player loves the idea of being a more iconic hero (like a Fighter or Wizard) but the other player enjoys the fringes of Hero-dom, he wants to play classes that are super good (Paladin) or have a touch of evil in them (like Warlocks). So one player buys the HotFL and the other buys HotFK. How disappointed and conused would the second player be when he opens his book up only to realize that it requires the other player's book (in addition to the Rules Compendium)?
But if WotC clearly demarkates that HotFK needs HotFL to play, then this would be come a non-issue for 99% of new and old players.
I hope they at least cover multi-classing.
I think that won't be covered until Heroes of Sword and Spell comes out in March.
My original question was answered in today’s podcast. The second Heroes book will contain the basic rules and equipment and so forth from the first Heroes book. So a player can purchase either book and have everything he needs. The advantage is you need to buy only one book. The disadvantage is those who purchase both books will have a decent amount of overlap material.
My original question was answered in today’s podcast. The second Heroes book will contain the basic rules and equipment and so forth from the first Heroes book. So a player can purchase either book and have everything he needs. The advantage is you need to buy only one book. The disadvantage is those who purchase both books will have a decent amount of overlap material.
Oh well, I guess that's one advantage to the books being cheap; I don't mind paying for the same material quite as much.
As far as I can work out, only about 120 pages (out of 365) of HotFL will be reprinted in HotFK. That's not a huge amount of overlap.
That's one third of the page count. Most people will find that to be huge.
Mind you, I don't really care and fully expected it myself.
That's one third of the page count. Most people will find that to be huge.
Except that the actual stuff on those 120 or so pages is already a copy-paste from the Rules Compendium, and only a slightly altered copy-paste from the PHB1. If somebody is willing to buy HotFL with 120 pages of stuff that's already in the RC/PHB1, they've already proven they're not all that bothered about buying a new book with 120 pages of stuff they already have.
This seems like a very contrived mindset.
From the PoV of someone intent on putting a negative spin on absolutely everything WotC does, I'm sure it does seem 'contrived'.
But it really comes down to what people think is a fair price for what they're getting. If somebody is willing to pay $20 for the 245 pages of new stuff in HotFL, then they will presumably be just as willing to pay $20 for the 245 pages of new stuff in HotFK, assuming they actually want that new stuff in the first place. They're paying the exact same amount of money for the exact same amount of new material. If the 120 pages of reprinted stuff in HotFL is acceptable for the price of that book, then why would the same 120 pages of reprinted stuff in HotFK not be equally acceptable?
can you seriously picture anyone who would buy Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms after having passed up Heroes of the Fallen Lands?
Yes. Because they are presented as 'equivalent' resources. Once both books have been released, a new player wouldn't even know which one came out first. Why should a new player be punished for buying the 'wrong' one as his first or only player book?
can you seriously picture anyone who would buy Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms after having passed up Heroes of the Fallen Lands?
Yes. Because they are presented as 'equivalent' resources. Once both books have been released, a new player wouldn't even know which one came out first. Why should a new player be punished for buying the 'wrong' one as his first or only player book?
I agree. Lots of casual players will buy just one of the books. Good move to make each book self-standing.
can you seriously picture anyone who would buy Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms after having passed up Heroes of the Fallen Lands?
Yes. Because they are presented as 'equivalent' resources. Once both books have been released, a new player wouldn't even know which one came out first. Why should a new player be punished for buying the 'wrong' one as his first or only player book?
It will be some time before that happens -- Heroes of the Fallen Lands is out at the moment, and Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms isn't. The races and classes of the former book definitely seem, to anyone familiar with older editions, to be more "core" than those in the latter book. Maybe a few people new to the game will get the latter book as a Christmas present or as a result of random fluctuations in availability, but I have a hard time picturing anyone voluntarily picking up the second book alone if both are available at the same store.
can you seriously picture anyone who would buy Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms after having passed up Heroes of the Fallen Lands?
Yes. Because they are presented as 'equivalent' resources. Once both books have been released, a new player wouldn't even know which one came out first. Why should a new player be punished for buying the 'wrong' one as his first or only player book?
It will be some time before that happens -- Heroes of the Fallen Lands is out at the moment, and Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms isn't. The races and classes of the former book definitely seem, to anyone familiar with older editions, to be more "core" than those in the latter book. Maybe a few people new to the game will get the latter book as a Christmas present or as a result of random fluctuations in availability, but I have a hard time picturing anyone voluntarily picking up the second book alone if both are available at the same store.
It's simple, someone looks at the two books sitting on the shelf in the store - then they buy whichever one has content they want to use.
Players that like nothing but fighters will buy the first, and players that only want to try out a druid will buy the second... while, depending on their race preference, they may either want both books.
It has nothing to do with which seems "more core," because the books are chiefly targeted at anyone coming into the game for the first time, or fresh off the Red Box that tells them "look for one, or both, of these books depending on what you want."
It has nothing to do with which seems "more core," because the books are chiefly targeted at anyone coming into the game for the first time, or fresh off the Red Box that tells them "look for one, or both, of these books depending on what you want."
If they started with the Red Box, they will want Heroes of the Fallen Lands -- the four races and four classes given in the Red Box are in that book and not (except for Humans) in Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms.
When I say that one book is "more core", I am focusing on the fact that Heroes of the Fallen Lands is the more complete looking of the two books based on races and classes provided. If you start with Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms, you have Half-Elves without Elves and Paladins without mundane Fighters -- a much odder implied setting than one based solely on Heroes of the Fallen Lands.
If they started with the Red Box, they will want Heroes of the Fallen Lands -- the four races and four classes given in the Red Box are in that book and not (except for Humans) in Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms.
That assumes that they don't see Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms and think something in it seems "cooler."
I would also like to say that not everyone buying into a game is looking for "more complete looking," so the two books being present as parallel steps on the entry path is perfectly fine - despite the perceived conundrum of "half-elves without elves."
If a new player only wants to try out a Drow Ranger because they have heard that it is cool, they will not be the least bit bothered to not have Heroes of the Fallen Lands. Similarly to how a player not at all interested at anything other than Dwarven Fighters because Gimli was their favorite character in some fantasy books they read will not feel any lack at not having Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms.
New players, those that these two books are chiefly aimed at, are not going to be pre-worried about implied setting.