Seriously? I didn't see that. I saw a Playtest of Hybrid Classes in PH3, and a second PH3 Playtest, but the Editorial Calendar doesn't specify what that playtest is? If it is a race, I'll be VERY VERY happy.
The second playtest is specified as being a race in the ToC.
My personal bet is that it will be a race that we haven't seen in a MM yet. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking Illumans(or whatever the name of that race was).
The second playtest is specified as being a race in the ToC.
My personal bet is that it will be a race that we haven't seen in a MM yet. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking Illumans(or whatever the name of that race was).
I'm expecting it to be a de-Oversized Bugbear, myself.
If one were a 'K', there are only so many 'K' races left, Kalshtar or Kobold. Well there is still some room for speculation there, but you get my meaning (I hope).
Or maybe they will be giving us playtests and previews of races this time around and keeping the classes (except for Monk, of course) under wraps.
Oh! You are cruel, WotC, so cruel!
Bel
I think like the drow and genasi did in FR, the Kalashtar will get a write-up in the Eberron sourcebook.
If true to form, I think the PHB will detail the eight remaining races which got write-ups in the back of the MM that have not received an official version: Bugbear, Doppleganger, Githyanki, Githzerai, Goblin, Hobgoblin, Kobold and Orc. The playtest will likely be Kobold.
True to what form? I think it's distinctly possible we may see one or more of those in the PHB3, but I also believe it highly unlikely it will even include that many races at all, let alone drawing upon the Monster Manual for the whole lot of them.
Orcs in particular, I doubt, will ever wind up in any PHB. We've already got half-orcs, orcs would just be a waste of space better used by either more prominent races from past editions, or better yet, entirely new races unique to this edition. (And if someone says "But we have elves and half-elves!" I'm going to stab them.)
If all the chatter about Psionic making its grand debut in PH3 turns out true, I wouldn't be surprised to see the two Gith varieties.
Bel
Wizards might take the Gith back to their roots and present them as one race with two offshoots, like Shifters.
Bel
Ugh.. I hope not. Shifters got screwed in 4e. Besides, I was hoping that shifters would have been totally changed around in PHB2, they weren't, so I doubt that a major change to Githyanki and Githzerai would be done.
Personally, though I doubt it to happen, I'd like to see Thri-Kreen done as a playtest. They are are a race that would need a lot of work to make them balanced with the others, and would give hope for Dark Sun coming out in 2010. Unless Dromites are going to be added in... I like those little guys, and small races need to represent more.
Personally, though I doubt it to happen, I'd like to see Thri-Kreen done as a playtest. They are are a race that would need a lot of work to make them balanced with the others, and would give hope for Dark Sun coming out in 2010. Unless Dromites are going to be added in... I like those little guys, and small races need to represent more.
Oooh, I hadn't even thought of Thri-Keen! I don't know much about their place in Darksun, because I didn't really get into the game until 3.X, but I always thought they were pretty cool conceptually, but I never played one because I always played casters and LA was a no-no. Hahaha.
I would be pleased to get the chance to play one someday!
If true to form, I think the PHB will detail the eight remaining races which got write-ups in the back of the MM that have not received an official version: Bugbear, Doppleganger, Githyanki, Githzerai, Goblin, Hobgoblin, Kobold and Orc. The playtest will likely be Kobold.
I think like the drow and genasi did in FR, the Kalashtar will get a write-up in the Eberron sourcebook.
Dopplegangers are 99% certain to be in the Eberron Player's Guide, along with (unfortunately IMO since we already have a PC write-up for them) Warforged, and supposedly one more race.
Also, the Monster Manual 2, which will definitely have new NPC/Pseudo PC write-ups for some races like MM1 does, will be out well before PH3 comes out, so they're just as likely to get PC write-ups in PH3.
Ugh.. I hope not. Shifters got screwed in 4e. Besides, I was hoping that shifters would have been totally changed around in PHB2, they weren't, so I doubt that a major change to Githyanki and Githzerai would be done.
Not entirely accurate - the Shifter did get one slight boost - in the MM their shifting turns off when the encounter is over, or if they go unconscious. The PH2 shifting only turns off at the end of the encounter.
But yeah, they still got hosed; almost no racial abilities and the worst racial feats of any race yet published, including the Dragon races.
I think that Githzerai is definitely a given, especially with the Monk coming out and psionics whenever it's around. And they have been an established PC race of a campaign setting before. It's likely that MM2 will introduce other PC-type write-ups for monsters, I think they've already said that Centaurs would be one of them, so it could end up in the PHB3 too.
It's likely that MM2 will introduce other PC-type write-ups for monsters, I think they've already said that Centaurs would be one of them, so it could end up in the PHB3 too.
I don't see the MM2 having more of the NPC write-ups like the MM1, It has caused a lot of issue. Had they not done it in the MM1 there wouldn't be the whole oversized debate along with other issues that its brought up. And if they do I don't see Centaurs being a race to ever be playable, they are large creatures, always have been, even if they make it to where they can only use medium sized weapons do the math on a large sized creature and bursts, close burst powers cover more area if you're large and that is a potential issue from avengers to wizards.
I don't see the MM2 having more of the NPC write-ups like the MM1, It has caused a lot of issue. Had they not done it in the MM1 there wouldn't be the whole oversized debate along with other issues that its brought up. And if they do I don't see Centaurs being a race to ever be playable, they are large creatures, always have been, even if they make it to where they can only use medium sized weapons do the math on a large sized creature and bursts, close burst powers cover more area if you're large and that is a potential issue from avengers to wizards.
Just because Centaurs were always Large before, doesn't mean they can't be Medium now. And the only issue with the MM1 races was Oversized, and that's really not that big a debate. It's a near guarantee MM2 is going to have NPC write-ups.
Just because Centaurs were always Large before, doesn't mean they can't be Medium now. And the only issue with the MM1 races was Oversized, and that's really not that big a debate. It's a near guarantee MM2 is going to have NPC write-ups.
If they change Centaurs to medium along with everything else they screwed up that will be it for me.
If true to form, I think the PHB will detail the eight remaining races which got write-ups in the back of the MM that have not received an official version: Bugbear, Doppleganger, Githyanki, Githzerai, Goblin, Hobgoblin, Kobold and Orc. The playtest will likely be Kobold.
I think like the drow and genasi did in FR, the Kalashtar will get a write-up in the Eberron sourcebook.
Are you talking about the form where (over) half of the races in the PHBII were not creatures from the back of the MM?
I'm fairly sure it will not be the Kalashtar seeing as they will be in the Player's Guide to Eberron coming out in June (confirmed at Gen Con last year)
That was never confirmed. All that was confirmed was that they were thinking about how Kalashtar would work in 4ed. They could be a MM race(unlikely), a EPG race, or a PHBIII race.
I think he was saying that the eberron players guide was confirmed then.
So, I think we're looking at something new, or as yet unconverted to 4e.
I want to say Thri-kreen, since any 4-arm ability will likely need a lot of playtesting, but I'd have expected them to be in a Dark Sun Player's Guide rather than the PH3.
I guess it could be kobolds. As MM races go, they're probably the only one that would need a fairly significant overhaul on its racial power.
I don't see the MM2 having more of the NPC write-ups like the MM1, It has caused a lot of issue. Had they not done it in the MM1 there wouldn't be the whole oversized debate along with other issues that its brought up. And if they do I don't see Centaurs being a race to ever be playable, they are large creatures, always have been, even if they make it to where they can only use medium sized weapons do the math on a large sized creature and bursts, close burst powers cover more area if you're large and that is a potential issue from avengers to wizards.
I don't think printing the stats in the monster manual, a book that is generally considered the domain of the DM, was an issue, it was the player entitlement thoughts that many have that said 'there are stats, so I want to play one'. The stats were there so DM's could make npc's of a certain race, NOT so players could play them.
Now, for some reason the forum won't let me multi-quote, but..
Centaurs being reduced from large to medium - *IF* this happens I don't have a problem with that. If you look at the size of the Bariur mini, it can show that a taur race can be medium. Making the centaur medium also has the advantage of not letting one player mount another. Err.. you know what I mean.. something that centaurs generally find distasteful in many works of fiction. The race could still be tall, but if they make it more of a unique race and less of a half horse, half man I'd be happy (basically less of a humans body drawn on the horse shoulders). Draw them like they are a race that could actually function, rather than be incredibly awkward.
As for dopplegangers being in the Eberron Players Guide - though that is possible, I still expect them to be, like the poorly done shifters :P, a race that is able to make the jump from niche to mainstream. Basically, dopplegangers can fit easily into ANY setting (they could already be there after all) and don't require any lore change to any world. They are essentially easier to work into another setting than say, warforged or Kalashtar. Not that these can't be done, just that they do require more work. Shifters are the same way, they were made for Eberron, but any world that has lycanthropes can have shifters easily - they can also be substituted for the generic beast-men found in many an anime or sword and sorcery work of fiction.
Now, ieattrollsforbreakfast, I agree with you that I'd rather see Thri-kreen developed for, and appearing in, a Dark Sun book, but they are the only race I can think of that really would need playtesting. There are a few others, such as Aarakocra, Kenku for instance that, since they could have flight at first level would need some work. Kobolds, while they may need some work for a player version, and do have lots of fans, don't warrant a play test in my opinion.
There is another option, that certain races are too complicated to create and be balanced with all the advantages that they have, so WotC, is making a 'monster race' class. While a first level human could be, for instance, a fighter, a thri-kreen would have to take the Monster class. Personally, I hope that isn't the case as it flies in the face of the 4e design philosophy, at least in my opinion.
Any race that requires a playtest must be something that had, in the previous version, a fairly high level adjustment or mechanics that proved awkward. So, for speculations sake, I would limit any theories on a play test race to being from something that had a challenge rating of at least +2 or +3 (if not higher) in 3.x, and no larger than medium size - though, as mentioned some races could be reduced in size, like the possibility of the centaur.
Thri-Kreen seem to be the best choice, at least in my opinion, because enough people like them - they go with the psionic idea which many think Psionic is a power source for PHB3, and they have a good number of racial features that could be problematic for a PC race, such as multiple arms - that's really the only one.
Another possibly option is that WotC is making a new race, or at least considering making one, and they want to garner feedback as to how this new race is received, but I don't think that really garners a playtest.
That's it my final answer is Thri-Kreen. No other race (that I'm aware of) seems to fit the very circumstantial evidence.
Any race that requires a playtest must be something that had, in the previous version, a fairly high level adjustment or mechanics that proved awkward. So, for speculations sake, I would limit any theories on a play test race to being from something that had a challenge rating of at least +2 or +3 (if not higher) in 3.x, and no larger than medium size - though, as mentioned some races could be reduced in size, like the possibility of the centaur.
Thri-Kreen seem to be the best choice, at least in my opinion, because enough people like them - they go with the psionic idea which many think Psionic is a power source for PHB3, and they have a good number of racial features that could be problematic for a PC race, such as multiple arms - that's really the only one.
Another possibly option is that WotC is making a new race, or at least considering making one, and they want to garner feedback as to how this new race is received, but I don't think that really garners a playtest.
That's it my final answer is Thri-Kreen. No other race (that I'm aware of) seems to fit the very circumstantial evidence.
Using your criteria, I can think of one other race that fits. The Illuman(sp) from Races of Destiny! As I recall they did not have a CR, but they had really weird and possibly complicated abilities tied to gaining new words circling around their head through multiclassing. As I recall these words could also be combined together to create new abilities. I would certainly call that an awkward ability.
I believe I've read somewhere that there are some potential ties between them and the Shadow power source, another highly likely power source for the PHBIII. However I admit I don't recall where this connection comes from, so it might not actually exist.
However they do have one advantage over the Tri-Keen, they have ben mentioned in a 4th edition product(Manual of the Planes). :P
- Playtest includes Racial Paragon Path
- Playtest includes Racial Feats
- Playest includes Racial Backgrounds
- Specific to the Elan. Perhaps they open them up, instead of it being just Humans they have the Elan race as more of a Template one can apply to multiple races (better for building your own campaign worlds and all).
- Also specific to the Elan. They may include rules and the fluff for the act of changing into a Elan.
Using your criteria, I can think of one other race that fits. The Illuman(sp) from Races of Destiny! As I recall they did not have a CR, but they had really weird and possibly complicated abilities tied to gaining new words circling around their head through multiclassing. As I recall these words could also be combined together to create new abilities. I would certainly call that an awkward ability.
Illumians would need a major re-write, as their whole schtick as a race was being 'good at multiclassing', a schtick which now belongs to the half-elf.
Illumians would need a major re-write, as their whole schtick as a race was being 'good at multiclassing', a schtick which now belongs to the half-elf.
They could be good at hybrid classing then?:P
They could be good at hybrid classing then?:P
That could work, and it would make sense to have the playtest of the hybrid-classing race at the same time they put out information on hybrid-classing.
Food for speculation for months to come!
If it is a race from a previous edition that just has a hard mechanic to do, I could see playtesting needed for something like flight (Aarakocra [which I've tried personally with little real success], or Kenku).
It's the Kenku. This race is all over the FRCG. But the kenku lost the ability to fly in 3e. I doubt they'll fly in 4e. I imagine the racial ability will be some sort of glide/swoop attack (shift speed and make one basic attack from any square of movement).
I'm hoping they don't develop all the monstrous races for PHBs. I don't want to see bugbears, kobolds, orcs, hobgoblins, goblins or any of those in the PHBs. Some might be suitable as PCs in Ebberron, but to put them in core is a bit much. I might be old school but I like a nice separation between monsters and non-monsters.
Well race writeups do give examples of characters and also what classes be best. So they may very well have PHB3 classes listed.
True to what form?QUOTE]
Sorry for the lack of clarity and the error, I thought both PHBs had 8 races but didn't have them on hand and PHB II only had 5/6. So there is no form to be true to. I do think every race on the back of the MM will get written up either in Dragon or a gamebook because of the constoversies and issues raised about them.
Eberron is out in June so Dopplegangers and Kalashtar and possibly Shifter variants will be in that book. I also think Warforged will be included.
Because of Goliaths they could also present raptorans or illumians.
I think that the Gith are a definate.
Ishtar... you're logic is... astounding. Thri-Khreen, monstrous four armed bugs should be in the PHB, but Orcs... which are basically grey humans with tusks and flat noses, are too monstrous. Wow, just, wow.
I think he was talking about not seeing stereotypical "monster" races as player races as well.
I think he was talking about not seeing stereotypical "monster" races as player races as well.
And something that eats elves isn't a monster because ... ?
why do people feel the warforged will be re-printed in the EB pg?
Because it was stated that they'd be featured in the Eberron PG. Ok, maybe not directly stated, but the article in http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20090116 has the words "However, with the release of
the EBERRON Campaign Setting, you’ll have the option of choosing a warforged as a character."
Well race writeups do give examples of characters and also what classes be best. So they may very well have PHB3 classes listed.
I'd like to see it being dragon articles for expanding the DMG monsters and keep the PHB for the more civilized monster races. I think Gith* would be alright, but I don't like the idea of goblinoids or orcs in a PHB. They can sell a complete book of humanoids for that.
why do people feel the warforged will be re-printed in the EB pg?
Because not every D&D player has access to the internet, and thus does not have access to the Warforged dragon article.
Because not every D&D player has access to the internet, and thus does not have access to the Warforged dragon article.
I agree with you, but that's not really evidence either way... the former has a good platform.
@KoboldAvenger
However I can't help but feel that origins article is strangely worded.. b/c warforged already existed as a race when that was written. Are there any other indicators?
Well if there is a possibility that "monster" races will be in, and also possibly the psionic power source, then my vote is for Illithid. While HIGHLY unlikely, it would certainly garner interest for the book. Who WOULDN'T want to play a Mind Flayer?!? Just my 2 cents.
I certainly wouldn't mind seeing that. In the campaign I'm starting up, a player wanted to play an illithid and we worked together to create a workable PC version of the race, I like to think, but it'd be nice to get an official version.
Am I the only one that thinks we have enough races already?
How many more do we need?
Not everything in the monster manual(s) needs to get a race write up.
Am I the only one that thinks we have enough races already?
How many more do we need?
As many as WotC can make. This gives people options. Make 'em all, let the DMs decide what can be played in their games.
What about the duergar and svirfneblin, eh? Eh?
Blech, thanks but no thanks.
I'm sure WOTC can do better than that.
Blech, thanks but no thanks.
I'm sure WOTC can do better than that.
That's the thing. Every race has fans. Yeah, you might never play or allow duergar or svirfneblin, but other gamers would, and they have as much claim to official versions of their favorite races as the elf and dwarf fans do. I could have certainly lived without all the PHB races and will probably never play one, but I don't begrudge those who do play them.
And you call them monsters.... humans and elves and such are mosnters to them in their eyes O_o we are all monsters.
There's some wisdom for you.
My prediction though highly unlikely: KOBOLDS! They have been mentioned before as at some point coming around to make up a full write-up for them.
PETITION KOBOLDS FOR PHB3 ^_^
Since I believe that PH3 will be 4 Ki classes, 2 shadow classes and 2 elemental classes, I would also expect Shadar-Kai, and an additional race from the shadowfell and one more race (or 2) from the elemental chaos.
I personally think that we will see several (if not half) of the races being Con-based races. My personal belief is that Ki will be by-and-large Con based, which will make up for (at least the Monk's) lack of armor, and at least one Dex/Con race. I will also hazard a guess (based on nothing but my gut) that we will see another race with the humanesque "pick-a-stat" mechanic.
Since I believe that PH3 will be 4 Ki classes, 2 shadow classes and 2 elemental classes, I would also expect Shadar-Kai, and an additional race from the shadowfell and one more race (or 2) from the elemental chaos.
And who's dex and con? KOBOLDS =D
What about the duergar and svirfneblin, eh? Eh?
Dwarves and Gnomes?
PH1 & 2 respectively.
Dwarves and Gnomes?
PH1 & 2 respectively.
I was going to make that argument... then I thought "Eladrin, Elves, Drow"
I was going to make that argument... then I thought "Eladrin, Elves, Drow"
Doesn't mean I'm wrong.
the story is more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it.
I cannot dispute this, both races where very distinct (quite literally the Drow version of gnomes and dwarves)
the story is more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it.
in 3.x, weren't the Duregar in the XPH?
in 3.x, weren't the Duregar in the XPH?
I think so, but I sold all my 3.5 books a while ago.
underdark includes Svirfneblin
And, yes. They were entirely different via background history, racial powers, etc. For example, I can see having the write up for dwarves be for both Shield and Gold dwarves. But, duergar are something entirely different. Likewise, svirfs are something different entirely than run-of-the-mill gnomes.
There is an "underdark" book in the works atm.
What other race that has ties to Psionics would need a playtest?
They are most likely wanting to create a balanced yet non nerfing way to do multiarmed races, which is why they're calling it a playtest and not a preview.
What was XPH again?
The Expanded Psionics Handbook.
I agree on Thri-Kreen as possible. They are playtesting a race, therefore it is something different enough to make a splash.
The main thing is that PHB's don't specifically support the CS of the year. EB had one race from the PHB2 (shifter).
Thri-Kreen is possible but not definitive. We just need to see what about this race deserves a playtest.
The Expanded Psionics Handbook.
Ah. Ok. In that case, yeah. The duergar are in that book.