Ranged Beast Ranger?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

aradraugfea

Jan 08, 2010 18:21:02
If I had to pick one petpeeve, class wise, about 4e, it'd just how melee focused Beast Companion Rangers are.  Rare is the Beast-oriented power that will even work unless you and your pet are immediately next to each other.  This is particularly rough considering that your options in a turn are to either move yourself, or move your pet, and it lets the ability to set your Quarry from the beast fairly useless, since you'll always be right next to each other.

The mechanics behind Beast Companion seem to scream out 'let the beast get in melee, you just sit back and turret,' but there is next to no power support for this.

It's something I'm really hoping to see out of Martial Power 2.

I mean, I get that Drizzt is an iconic character and all, but what about his mentor?  The Ranger who would send his owl out to find targets, and then proceed to shoot at the targets identified by the owl?

But, basically, it's just something I really hope we see in the near future.  There's a player in my party who has this as their concept, and I dislike having to basically point her to just pure archer powers all the time.  Her option are to either abandon her concept, or all but ignore that she has a beast companion. 
#2

salla

Jan 08, 2010 18:42:41
If you're doing a Ranged Beast Ranger, pick the bird.  Since you can quarry the closest creature to your beast instead, you can work on killing the softer targets in the back more easily.
#3

Dirge-Overdrive

Jan 08, 2010 18:44:00
This is particularly rough considering that your options in a turn are to either move yourself, or move your pet, and it lets the ability to set your Quarry from the beast fairly useless, since you'll always be right next to each other.



I agree that there should be more ranged beastmeaster powers.
However, I think you're missing something about how Beastmaster Rangers work.
When you spend a move action to move your beast, you can move too. These moves do not have to be the same.

With one move action you can tell your beast to shift and move yourself your speed. 
#4

aradraugfea

Jan 08, 2010 18:48:47
This is particularly rough considering that your options in a turn are to either move yourself, or move your pet, and it lets the ability to set your Quarry from the beast fairly useless, since you'll always be right next to each other.



I agree that there should be more ranged beastmeaster powers.
However, I think you're missing something about how Beastmaster Rangers work.
When you spend a move action to move your beast, you can move too. These moves do not have to be the same.

With one move action you can tell your beast to shift and move yourself your speed. 


Is that so?

Well then, that's good, and makes the 'melee' thing a bit less backwards.  It's still annoying

As to Salla, I've heard that advice before, my player wanted a lion, though.  He started off named Aslan, but after a string of horrible rolls, and some jokes about the mechanics of beast companions, he sorta became 'Derp Lion'

The one thing that really gets me is look at the Eberron Ranger paragon path, with the griffon.  Tell me that that would not be INCREDIBLE with some ranged support.  Flying around on a griffon, shooting away.  Okay, gives you an unfair advantage against grounded melee, but this is DnD, the DM can compensate.  Make every group encountered in a place where flying is feasible have at least one flying monster.  A drake, or something.  And it's not like the wizard can't give everyone in the party a fly speed in paragon tier. 
#5

ausolion

Jan 13, 2010 4:34:12
I'm definitely in agreement with you. There is simply no reason that having a pet should keep you in melee with it. The shaman can do it, why not you? I wouldn't mind having a pet that attacks on its own, without your help. Then you can alternate ranged and "melee" attacks and give you a secondary role as a defender. Give him a feat that allows him a bonus to attack with a successful beast attack, then let some arrows find their way into a face or two
#6

Astromath

Jan 13, 2010 11:03:56
There is an option that you may consider. Create a ranged-based Ranger with a companion created from DMG2 rules. There are three downsides of this: 1) the companion gets an equal share of party XP. 2) you would not be able to mark targets using this companion unless the DM made a houserule allowing it. 3) you do not have any powers that can work in concert with the companion other than the normal flanking rules. The upside is that the companion is now automonous with its own complete set of actions.
#7

aradraugfea

Jan 13, 2010 11:47:57
There is an option that you may consider. Create a ranged-based Ranger with a companion created from DMG2 rules. There are three downsides of this: 1) the companion gets an equal share of party XP. 2) you would not be able to mark targets using this companion unless the DM made a houserule allowing it. 3) you do not have any powers that can work in concert with the companion other than the normal flanking rules. The upside is that the companion is now automonous with its own complete set of actions.


Which would interface even worse with a ranged ranger than the current option does.

Really, I think the best option would probably be to just hope Wizards slips some support into Martial Power 2, or publishes some Dragon Articles helping out the concept.
#8

Centauri

Jan 13, 2010 11:58:45
This comes up every one in a while. From where I stand, just being able to loose your Twin Strike at do your quarry damage to the controller in the back, instead of the minions up front is a powerful feature of the beastmaster. The beast can also help keep targets pinned down, out of cover, with its opportunity attack which uses an immediate action that I don't see an archer using much otherwise. The raptor seems like it would be ideal for this, but I don't see why it couldn't work with any of the beasts (though having the wolf trip the targets of its opportunity attacks doesn't really help a ranged attacker).

There's nothing to prevent there being ranged beast attacks, but they're not strictly necessary. Frankly, a beastmaster who didn't take a single beast attack power would still be very good.

Edited.
#9

Alex_

Jan 14, 2010 11:07:23
This comes up every one in a while. From where I stand, just being able to loose your Twin Strike at do your quarry damage to the controller in the back, instead of the minions up front is a powerful feature of the beastmaster. The beast can also help keep targets pinned down, out of cover, with its opportunity attack which uses an immediate action that I don't see an archer using much otherwise. The raptor seems like it would be ideal for this, but I don't see why it couldn't work with any of the beasts (though having the wolf trip the targets of its opportunity attacks doesn't really help a ranged attacker).

There's nothing to prevent there being ranged beast attacks, but they're not strictly necessary. Frankly, a beastmaster who didn't take a single beast attack power would still be very good.

Edited.



  This. 

 An Archery Ranger gets a +2 bonus against oppurtunity attacks and a +1 bonus if nobody else is close to their enemy than they are.  You can only designate the enemy closest to you as your Quarry. It encourages you to be in closer proximity to the enemy.

  The ranged Beast Companion Ranger loses those two options, but they gain the Animal Companion, which allows them to extend their effective reach.  You have a creature to help defend you in meleem, but more often than not, I see it being used to allow you to potentially Quarry and harass any target in the battlefield within weapon's range.