WotC has been giving us a little bit here and there - Strahd, a couple of domains of dread, the darklord epic destiny...
It's time to let the Mists surround us and return us where we belong - Barovia is calling, are you brave enough to answer?
It seems like they're eschewing a lot of their old campaign settings in favor of more sci-fi.
While I would like to see this, we haven't really seen any evidence of this.
It seems like they're eschewing a lot of their old campaign settings in favor of more sci-fi.
That would actually be kinda cool...if it were true.
(December's release of "the plane below may confirm that such is already in the works if said book is what everyone speculates it to be) that gives more information on these domains and covers what else needs to be said to fully integrate ravenloft into core, that'd satisfy me.
I believe its the Planes Below, and is about the Elemental Chaos.
I definitely want a 4e Ravenloft campaign setting.
But I'd like to know when.
You don't need a book for Ravenloft, its always really been more of a theme than a setting, at least IMHO.
Ravenloft to those that have loved it lo these many years, has been much more than just a theme. With so many worlds being given into this is good and this is evil (FR and DL comes to mind), Ravenloft was the one setting that quite literally gave us the shades of gray. For example, most people would look at a vampire as just a source of xp. But Strahd von Zarovich is much more than just a mere vampire.
He was a powerful warlord that fought for his kingdom and his family. Everything he did was for the good of the people around him, but one day he met Tatyana, the betrothed to his brother Sergei. For all the good he had done, for all the battles he had fought for his people, he simply longed to be loved by someone like she looked upon Sergei. Strahd performed a ritual to turn himself into the undead murdered his own brother to try to win the hand of the lovely Tatyana who ended up diving off the battlements of Castle Ravenloft. The mists surrounding Ravenloft took Tatyana so that after all Strahd had done, he would never attain the one thing that he most desired, that being Tatyana's undying love for him. So now, for all of eternity, Strahd remains in his castle, the Darklord of Barovia doomed to an existence without love or happiness. While he is the master of his domain, he is forever its prisoner.
This kind of history is much more than just a theme. It is much more than just ambient music playing in the background. It is a beautifully dark place in which literally anything can happen.
Yeah, people keep saying "Domains of Dread" article, which is totally going to happen...
But I'd like to know when.
They've already had a couple, with another one this month. It's not a monthly article. No article type is, except the adventures, and that's apparently going to be changing too.
Ravenloft to those that have loved it lo these many years, has been much more than just a theme. With so many worlds being given into this is good and this is evil (FR and DL comes to mind), Ravenloft was the one setting that quite literally gave us the shades of gray. For example, most people would look at a vampire as just a source of xp. But Strahd von Zarovich is much more than just a mere vampire.
He was a powerful warlord that fought for his kingdom and his family... insert more lore here...
This kind of history is much more than just a theme. It is much more than just ambient music playing in the background. It is a beautifully dark place in which literally anything can happen.
Right. It's fluff. All of that is fluff. Which is still available to buy in it's previous edition.
All of those things you list are up to the DM. Wizards isn't going to republish story elements just so they can remind you that this campaign and it's themes exist. What they are going to do is publish probably a single article saying "Here is this great environment. Here are the things that are in it, here are the figures, the people, the themes, and the crunch you need to give your PCs a few whopping good encounters."
I believe its the Planes Below, and is about the Elemental Chaos.
Thats my point. If they are making a book that is purely focused on the Elemental Chaos alone, I find it likely that books focusing on the Astral Sea as well as the Feywild, and the Shadowfell are quite likely, even a book on the far realm, not unlike 3e's lords of madness tome is not out of the question. It will come eventually I expect
WotC has been giving us a little bit here and there - Strahd, a couple of domains of dread, the darklord epic destiny...
Where is the Strahd 4e conversion?
Where is the Strahd 4e conversion?
Strahd is on p.210 of Open Grave.
I still have hope on a campaign book. Chris Perkins mentions here:
A petition isn't likely to resurrect Mystara, I'm afraid. What Mystara lacks is a real hook that sets it apart from generic D&D and other specific D&D settings. (I've always considered Hollow World a more intriguing setting for exactly this reason.)
On the other hand, Ravenloft has a hook (Gothic horror fantasy) that no other D&D setting treads on, which is something worth exploring when the time is right.
He continues two posts later to add:
We resurrect old campaign settings for more than just nostalgia reasons. We do it to keep those worlds and intellectual properties alive and active. Names like "Ravenloft" and "Dark Sun" and "Dragonlance" mean a lot to Wizards and to a great many other people. In most cases, it would be a shame to let them simply wither and die. Just like Disney animated movies, we need to pull them out of the vault and dust them off once in a while.
The fact that he mentions Ravenloft in the same group as Dark Sun and Dragonlance - vs Spelljammer and Planescape - suggests (to my admittedly highly optimistic mind) that it might not have been completely dumped into the Shadowfell to be eked out one domain at a time in Dragon. Mind you, I may very well be proven wrong with the coming article if it turns out to be one of the Core domains from Ravenloft and not another new 'island' (ie isolated) domain. A girl can dream. ;)
On the other hand, Ravenloft has a hook (Gothic horror fantasy) that no other D&D setting treads on, which is something worth exploring when the time is right.
That gives me hope for 2011 or 2012.
A petition isn't likely to resurrect Mystara, I'm afraid. What Mystara lacks is a real hook that sets it apart from generic D&D and other specific D&D settings. (I've always considered Hollow World a more intriguing setting for exactly this reason.)
It was killed just as it started to develop a hook, finally, which is the tragedy. I could see it blooming with some nurturing and making its hook an age of exploration, discovery, and piracy in a world with two sides - Romantic High-Seas Pirate Fantasy is certainly a hook.
Looking to fiction like Mysterious Cities of Gold, Master and Commander, Pirates of the Carribean, One Piece, and Journey to the Center of The Earth would all be good places to start.
There's an Old World of Mystara full of constantly squabbling empires with a developed power base when they discover two new worlds - the New World, an untouched continent full of mystery called the New World and the Hollow World beneath them full of ancient peoples. And then its a worldwide rush to claim the land and riches that lie within the two new worlds and the perils of the unknown that lie in wait for agents of the empires, freelance explorers, and pirates. There'd also be ample opportunity for your players to play a group of natives defending their land from the greedy colonists.
I think it could work out very nice, especially if they build up ship to ship and ship to monster combat as one of the main draws of the setting.
The Sherlock-Holmes-ish elements to the setting were some of my favorites (I'm talking 2e here).
The Victoriana of Ravenloft and the 2e Planescape was some of my favorite fluff and mechanics of all time.
My first instincts to the OP was OMG yes!. However, after thinking about it, I'm not sure I would appreciate a 4e conversion as I first thought. It has to do with 4e. Recently, I read a post saying that 4e is "designed to create non-trivial knock-down drag-out high-power supernatural battles in semi-open environments between competitively matched opponents", which I feel describes 4e to a tee. It has become so much more of a combat system then any other edition. Combat, to me, is not Ravenloft's strength at all.
However after thinking about it, I feel that if there is a campaign that can truly shine under the auspices of 4th edition it would be Birthright. Now that was a high-flying epic-scale campaign setting that would rock under 4e, just as surely as Dark Sun.
However if there were a 4e sourcebook for Ravenloft, I'd be on the pre-order list without hesitation. I just think that 4e's strength lends it more to other campaign settings.
Ravenloft to those that have loved it lo these many years, has been much more than just a theme. With so many worlds being given into this is good and this is evil (FR and DL comes to mind), Ravenloft was the one setting that quite literally gave us the shades of gray. For example, most people would look at a vampire as just a source of xp. But Strahd von Zarovich is much more than just a mere vampire.
He was a powerful warlord that fought for his kingdom and his family. Everything he did was for the good of the people around him, but one day he met Tatyana, the betrothed to his brother Sergei. For all the good he had done, for all the battles he had fought for his people, he simply longed to be loved by someone like she looked upon Sergei. Strahd performed a ritual to turn himself into the undead murdered his own brother to try to win the hand of the lovely Tatyana who ended up diving off the battlements of Castle Ravenloft. The mists surrounding Ravenloft took Tatyana so that after all Strahd had done, he would never attain the one thing that he most desired, that being Tatyana's undying love for him. So now, for all of eternity, Strahd remains in his castle, the Darklord of Barovia doomed to an existence without love or happiness. While he is the master of his domain, he is forever its prisoner.
This kind of history is much more than just a theme. It is much more than just ambient music playing in the background. It is a beautifully dark place in which literally anything can happen.
Yes, I agree. If only all such modules were written as well as the original I6 & I10 had been....
But what I've never agreed with is the idea that this needs stuff needs it's own specific campaign setting, all kinds of extra rules & a logo. A logo wich btw doesn't even refer to 99% of the setting it was pasted on top of....
Please, just write really good stand alone horror adventures & let us DMs place them as we please.
My first instincts to the OP was OMG yes!. However, after thinking about it, I'm not sure I would appreciate a 4e conversion as I first thought. It has to do with 4e. Recently, I read a post saying that 4e is "designed to create non-trivial knock-down drag-out high-power supernatural battles in semi-open environments between competitively matched opponents", which I feel describes 4e to a tee. It has become so much more of a combat system then any other edition. Combat, to me, is not Ravenloft's strength at all.
This is pretty much how i feel. I like Ravenloft. I like 4E. I dont't think they go well together.
Most of 4E's ruleset lends itself to action-movie type battles and face-to-face slugfests. 4E handles this well, and its fun, but i want something with a much greater focus on subtlety for a gothic horror setting. While you certainly could make the 2 fit together, it seems a bit like a square peg, round hole scenario to me.
Eh, just because 4th has made a lot of puzzle solving and actual role-playing optional in favor of constant video-game inspired combat doesn't mean a group can't actually roleplay. It's not like there was anything benefiting roleplaying and mystery-solving in older editions, it just depends on the group.
I dont really think the issue for me is a roleplay vs non-roleplay situation. Its more a matter of using an appropriate system for the type of setting you are running. Gothic horror settings benefit from having the option for PCs that shy away from combat, for instance, in favor of a full suite of investigative abilities. You can try to make thing like this work in 4E but it isnt a very good fit.
Isn't it part of the Shadowfell now?
I think they are. They certainly fit, and if WotC goes on to make a book on the Shadowfell (as with the Elemental Chaos), including a few Domains would be a sound idea (in addition to the ones introduced in Dragon).
Most of 4E's ruleset lends itself to action-movie type battles and face-to-face slugfests. 4E handles this well, and its fun, but i want something with a much greater focus on subtlety for a gothic horror setting. While you certainly could make the 2 fit together, it seems a bit like a square peg, round hole scenario to me.
Oh, I 'm not sure if I could agree. I 'm currently running Last Breath of Ashenport, with a funloving group of players and fitting PCs starring: A psychotic Goblin Gangboss, a runaway Drow with a slightly sadistic streak, a necrophagic Gnoll (ate a deceased member of the Gobbo's gang), an elven Ranger of Melora with a very archaic twist (y'know offering blood sacrifices and such) and a Gnome Accountant with a Napoleon complex, but we still managed to evoke some of the horror feeling in the setting when we stopped turning the game into a Scary Movie ripoff.
The best method to keep PCs on their toes is to turn the tables, and give the dark powers that be or the NPCs more control over the turn of events. I found that making the PCs react to the opposition rather than the usual dungeon crawl style helps with setting up a dark fantasy setting or campaign. Wait, I guess that sounds like Eberron.
I think they are. They certainly fit, and if WotC goes on to make a book on the Shadowfell (as with the Elemental Chaos), including a few Domains would be a sound idea (in addition to the ones introduced in Dragon).
This is likely where we'll see Ravenloft.
Right. It's fluff. All of that is fluff. Which is still available to buy in it's previous edition.
All of those things you list are up to the DM. Wizards isn't going to republish story elements just so they can remind you that this campaign and it's themes exist. What they are going to do is publish probably a single article saying "Here is this great environment. Here are the things that are in it, here are the figures, the people, the themes, and the crunch you need to give your PCs a few whopping good encounters."
What you call fluff, I call storyline. That's the problem with the modern "gamer". Its all "kick down the door, fireball, fireball, lightning bolt, cone of cold, ok what do we see?"
No one actually cares about the STORY anymore - its just getting through the encounters like some weird game of midevil bowling - line em up and knock em down. The monsters shouldn't have names or back stories, just some basic stats and xp and treasure.
What you call fluff, I call storyline. That's the problem with the modern "gamer". Its all "kick down the door, fireball, fireball, lightning bolt, cone of cold, ok what do we see?"
No one actually cares about the STORY anymore - its just getting through the encounters like some weird game of midevil bowling - line em up and knock em down. The monsters shouldn't have names or back stories, just some basic stats and xp and treasure.
And I guess you had to walk 50 miles uphill through three feet of snow to get to the game session too?
In the future, refrain from making arrogant presumptions about people you know nothing about.
Jaqueline RenierI would love to see Ravenloft brought back as a campaign setting, but I'll settle for the Domains of Dread articles. I'd prefer if they'd compile all of the Domains of Dread articles into a single book, as I don't have a DDI subscription (it's not easy working through college on a burger-flipping salary).
If they don't put out a Ravenloft campaign setting, they'll definitely need articles on how to run a horror campaign. Techniques for setting the right mood was a large part of the older Ravenloft stuff, and people will need that again to run a proper gothic horror setting.
I love Ravenloft. Awlays have, always will.
I would love to see Ravenloft brought back as a campaign setting, but I'll settle for the Domains of Dread articles. I'd prefer if they'd compile all of the Domains of Dread articles into a single book, as I don't have a DDI subscription (it's not easy working through college on a burger-flipping salary).
If they don't put out a Ravenloft campaign setting, they'll definitely need articles on how to run a horror campaign. Techniques for setting the right mood was a large part of the older Ravenloft stuff, and people will need that again to run a proper gothic horror setting.
This. I am hoping for this in an upcoming DMG.
Bel
What you call fluff, I call storyline. That's the problem with the modern "gamer". Its all "kick down the door, fireball, fireball, lightning bolt, cone of cold, ok what do we see?"
No one actually cares about the STORY anymore - its just getting through the encounters like some weird game of midevil bowling - line em up and knock em down. The monsters shouldn't have names or back stories, just some basic stats and xp and treasure.
You missed the entire point of his post. His point wasn't that there shouldn't be a storyline, but that WotC isn't going to reprint an old storyline instead of relying on "modern gamers" to make up their own. He's saying that people should actually come up their own story (GASP!) instead of just being handed someone else's. He's saying that people that are creative would find a book full of fluff/storyline a waste of space.
What are you guys waiting on?
There is plenty of material on locales and NPCs for a Campaign Guide, the only problem I can see with creating an adventure is picking which awesome dark lord to center it on, and the Player's Guide could focus on using Undead as player races and turning typically evil classes into heroes.
Step 1:
--> :fight!: Step 2:
Step 3:
I would, however, not be averse to seeing Masque of the Red Death dusted off and done properly
My 4ed Ravenloft campaign is 4 weeks in, and I am using WotC-produced content. That Graefmotte article from dra 375 is going to keep me busy until August!
What are you guys waiting on?
Not all of us can afford a DDI subscription. I am, myself, working through college and had to take the summer off to save money for the autumn semester.
If they make books for it, i'll save for those. If they don't, I'll be waiting a while so I can dowload as many domains of dread articles (& other Ravenloft/horror-related arcticles) as possible during a one month subscription.
I am also only about 6 months away from being qualified for a job with 4-5 times my current salary, so I'll likely get my subscription then.
It's pretty certain we'll get RL in a few years
Really? Care to share your source then? As currently I am unaware of any indication that we will be getting Ravenloft ever.
Why would WotC do anything for Ravenloft?
(1) There has been some indications of the setting possibly coming out. Read the threads in this post, I won't bother to repeat the clues here. Will Ravenloft be 2nd or 3rd edition version? Probably not. But Ravenloft has a unique history and WotC knows this. I'm knew here, long time D&D player, and don't want to start a flame war or anything. But calling Ravenloft just a theme...either your DM didn't play it right with you or you didn't play or read the campaign at all. I don't have much interest in Dragonlance or Forgotten Realms - but I would NEVER call them just a theme.
(2) THE LITTLE CAMPAIGN THAT COULD: It's a campaign that grew from a module. A story so good that stirred something inside players that TSR created a setting around it. (Oh, and reprinted that module for every version of the game after that)
(3) IT'S VERSATILE You can drop it into your Dragonlance, Dark Sun, and Forgotten Realms campaigns (heck even Spelljammer).
(4) MONEY COUNTS If you put out a Ravenloft book in stores, people who weren't in the game now- might want to get into it. Twilight (god help us) was really successful and those kids might like seeing what D&D has to offer. True Blood is a successful TV show for HBO right now. So vampires are very much present and popular. Putting it only in D&D Insider will not draw new customers.
Ravenloft can challenge and terrify better than most and can be a heck of a lot of fun to play. WotC knows this and knows there's a market for it and hopefully we'll see the campaign setting soon.
/Signed 4e Ravenloft
First, it's not "the world" (from the 4e cosmological model), and I'd expect every annual setting to be a version of 'the world'. Should one of those slots go on a domain of dread in the Shadowfell rather than a full world setting? I'm not so sure.
Part of the flavor of Ravenloft comes from being trapped in the mists. This could be done with a full campaign setting, but would work much better if the PCs are part of a regular world setting - especially if they do some adventuring there first.
A campaign world needs to support 1-30 adventuring. When the PCs beat Strahd, is there any point in continuing to play? Would it make sense for a new group of 1st-level PCs to adventure in a Strahd-less world?
Taking these reasons into account, I think Ravenloft might be better served as a super-adventure, similar to the Revenge of the Giants adventure coming out later this year. That would give WotC the latitude to cram in a heaping helping of storyline goodness. I'd recommend splitting it into two or three quests, each geared for a different range of levels. That way, a PC group could get a bite or two of the Ravenloft cherry before taking on the big guy.
Bring back Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser!
These guys haven't really been touched on since 2nd edition.
(3) IT'S VERSATILE You can drop it into your Dragonlance, Dark Sun, and Forgotten Realms campaigns (heck even Spelljammer).
This is actually probably the reason why you aren't going to see it as a campaign setting. It can simply be dropped into all campaign settings. There is no reason, by your own admission, to make it a seperate from all the other ones. And that is exactly what they've done. Ravenloft has been absorbed into the Shadowfell and now is part of all campaigns. No need to release a seperate campaign setting.:D
This is actually probably the reason why you aren't going to see it as a campaign setting. It can simply be dropped into all campaign settings. There is no reason, by your own admission, to make it a seperate from all the other ones. And that is exactly what they've done. Ravenloft has been absorbed into the Shadowfell and now is part of all campaigns. No need to release a seperate campaign setting.:D
I agree with this. Which is why as I said on the previous page, all your ravenloft wants will be covered by a sourcebook on the shadowfell. With a elemental chaos sourcebook already lined up a shadowfell one can't be but a few months off (hopefully).
Ah well. Its too bad really. My favorite setting were always Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Eberron. It seems like out of those four settings, I only have a hope of seeing two of them hit print as dedicated settings for 4e.
This is actually probably the reason why you aren't going to see it as a campaign setting. It can simply be dropped into all campaign settings. There is no reason, by your own admission, to make it a seperate from all the other ones. And that is exactly what they've done. Ravenloft has been absorbed into the Shadowfell and now is part of all campaigns. No need to release a seperate campaign setting.:D
Well yes and no. See it can be used in other campaigns or it could stand as its own. This means more people to buy the product. You aren't committing yourself to one campaign automatically. But you can play it as it's own campaign. The domains are linked (well not all of them) and players can travel from one to the next. It's the Lords of the domain that are trapped. As for Strahd, well he is not the only one in the domains. There are plenty of more that are out there. Saying that once you kill Strahd - Ravenloft is over, is like saying once you kill Lord Soth - Dragonlance is over. Strahd is just a heavy hitter, but not the only one.
Look, the point is Ravenloft offers a unique atmosphere and game mechanics (granted if they don't change that). I'm not saying the other games aren't valid. But the truth is that you don't like or wouldn't like to run/play in Ravenloft. This doesn't make Ravenloft any less valid. In fact Greyhawk/Forgotten Realms/Dragonlance have quite a bit in common. Ravenloft, Dark Sun and Spelljammer for example are very different. I feel focusing on 'the world' variations limit the game. I'm guessing that means Prime Material Plane, but I could be wrong. I understand the Dragonlance franchise and Dark Sun for that matter has just as many devoted fans (if not more.) I think the game could use a dark/goth/undead campaign world, where the players feel real dread of wanting to get the hell out of there. A place where small victories feel like major accomplishments in other worlds. I hear that players are trouncing monsters and DMs have to tweak the rules just to challenge them. How about giving them a campaign world that will do just that?
I'd prefer to see 4th edition Lankhmar myself.
Bring back Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser!
These guys haven't really been touched on since 2nd edition.
Hear! Hear! Lankhmar has a "A" in it. Now that would be going back to D&D roots, sword and sorcery. Sadly, I think Mongoose is doing something with it for Runequest, so I don't think it will show up in any form for 4th edition.
Hear! Hear! Lankhmar has a "A" in it. Now that would be going back to D&D roots, sword and sorcery. Sadly, I think Mongoose is doing something with it for Runequest, so I don't think it will show up in any form for 4th edition.
Yes, I am fairly certain WotC did not maintain TSR's trademark on the Lankhmar setting.
And I'm sure that you and the REAL gamers in your group share many of valuable insights and pearls of wisdom inbetween calculating THAC0 and massaging eachothers' liver spots
Actually, I understand where stormtracker is coming from. If you glance through the 4E adventures they contain just enough back story to fascilitate a string of mostly related encounters. New players that have never role played before will assume the neutral position is always combat and not discussion and character acting. The Dungeon Master's Guide, setting-specific Campaign Guides, and books like Manual of the Planes and Open Grave offset this a great deal, but I find it is all in the introduction.
Late in 2nd Edition I noticed a 'precision machined adventuring team' mentality where groups would line up outside a door, kick it in, perform their proscribed duties, and then do it again at the next door. 3.x got away from that somehow but I am seeing it come back at my FLGS since the release of 4E.
I am neither old (thus precluding the existance of liver spots) nor have any love of THAC0 (not that it was complicated, it was just more complicated than straight AC). I am a DM who still uses 2nd Edition AD&D, 3.5, and 4E, and I find it very clear that the era of books like The Silver Marches, Shining South, and Sharn, City of Towers is over and WotC's current policy is 'the more crunch the better so let's dump the fluff'. This is not necessarily a bad thing (look at how streamlined and balanced this latest edition is) but it is not what I am looking for. I honestly hope I am wrong because the quality of WotC material continues to increase but, as The Rolling Stones said, "I just can't get no satisfaction."
Back on topic, I would be happy with a Ravenloft equivalent in a Manual of the Planes style book so long as a decent amount of the book covers it. Ravenloft has a ton of material, but so do many of the places covered in the Manual of the Planes. I would be content with the same treatment Baator received: a one page of introduction with one page for each of the Nine Hells and stat blocks and histories for the ruler of each level. Afterwards, individual articles in Dragon and Dungeon could provide supplemental material.
Yes, I am fairly certain WotC did not maintain TSR's trademark on the Lankhmar setting.
Distressing. The world of Nehwon is absolutely classic, well developed and thought out by the author (Fritz Leiber) with strange and interesting monsters, gods and places. I'd love to run a 4th ed campaign in it.
Late in 2nd Edition I noticed a 'precision machined adventuring team' mentality where groups would line up outside a door, kick it in, perform their proscribed duties, and then do it again at the next door. 3.x got away from that somehow but I am seeing it come back at my FLGS since the release of 4E.
Every 3.5 module that ive seen has just as much focus on combat as the 4E ones seem to. Likewise, every living greyhawk mod i saw during 3E was as much a hack and slash as any of the LFR games ive attended. Conversely, the 2e mods i own have more background, non-combat, material.From what ive seen, people have been flocking to do the kick-the-door-down 4e dungeon delves at the local store because they've been conditioned to that playstyle by 3E. I saw hack-and-slash and crazy optimization take a greater role in DnD when 3E started to get big, and WotC seems to be cutting through the crap and putting the combat aspect at the forefront of 4e's focus.
Regarding the focus on combat, I represented my opinion very poorly in my previous post (I blame a lack of coffee :zzz
. I actually like that about the latest Core Rulebooks. 4E does a very good job of not having rules for things that do not need third party arbitration, such as role playing, but just because there are not rules for something does not mean it should not be discussed. For example, I wish the 'How To Play' section of the Player's Handbook contained even five pages devoted to role playing.That said, my comments regarding the effects of various editions of D&D, previous and current, on gaming groups in my FLGS are not criticisms of those groups, they are observations. Those people are my friends and I am a contributing member of those groups, including the "kick in the door" sessions. I resent being lumped in with a group of people I do not support, Shazbot79. I do not “look down on new gamers,” I introduce them to the hobby and greatly enjoy their company. The only person who used the terms “real gamers” and “real gaming” was you. Believe it or not, I agree with your position regarding the idiocy of edition wars and the mistreatment of new gamers (the latter reason is why I no long play Warhammer 40,000 at my FLGS). I find these to be important concerns of the gaming community and I appreciate you voicing them. I would also appreciate it, however, if you did so without projecting your concerns onto other people in the conversation to make your point.
Back on topic, I am trying to find what old TSR Intellectual Properties WotC no longer holds. Does anyone know where I could find such information?
Sure, they could release a 'Ravenloft' setting but it will just be a reskinned 'Keep on the Shadowfell', substituting undead for kobolds. You'll hack your way through twenty rooms of undead before killing the Big Bad with your anime powers.
A dungeon crawl with undead monsters ISN'T a horror adventure. Horror has elements that will not exist in any official 4E product - investigation, real danger to PCs, PC disempowerment, genuine fear. There has to be a genuine sense of being 'up against it', and in 4E the Pcs are booked to win every fight.
4E has its strengths as a combat game but I don't see how it's even remotely suited to running horror scenarios.
You do realise that the 4E version of Ravenloft will be in the standard 'delve format' of twenty combats and a skill challenge?
Sure, they could release a 'Ravenloft' setting but it will just be a reskinned 'Keep on the Shadowfell', substituting undead for kobolds. You'll hack your way through twenty rooms of undead before killing the Big Bad with your anime powers.
A dungeon crawl with undead monsters ISN'T a horror adventure. Horror has elements that will not exist in any official 4E product - investigation, real danger to PCs, PC disempowerment, genuine fear. There has to be a genuine sense of being 'up against it', and in 4E the Pcs are booked to win every fight.
4E has its strengths as a combat game but I don't see how it's even remotely suited to running horror scenarios.
While your incisive critique of formulaic module design is apt, it is in no way a new phenomenon. The "fluff" is the focus in a horror game, and that is anathema to the traditional modular adventure, considering PC and DM emotional investment in purchased material is by definition minimal. You should check out the "Domains of Dread: Graefmotte" article from Dragon 375 for what I consider a decent example of a commercially-available, nonlinear campaign arc set in Ravenloft. Given the narrative skills of a good DM, this material can really shine.
Ultimately, A good GM can create spooky atmosphere using storytelling in ways that lame scare, taint, and sanity mechanics cannot replicate. Horror has nothing to do with the system, and has more to do with respect for the campaign settings standards, which creates a greater appreciation for deviant situations. As long as your players care for their PCs well-being, and the DM understands pacing and dramatic reveals, everything will fall into place.
Roleplaying transcends game.
Roleplaying transcends game.
Thanks for injecting that dose of truth. I don't get people who say that you can't roleplay (or roleplay a specific genre) with 4e mechanics. Horror woks just fine, across several different roleplaying systems. Sometimes this is in spite of the mechanics, but usually it just coexists alongside them.
And Maelora, even if 4e's powers were anime-like (which is not a concession); you seem to be forgetting that horror is also an anime genre. Horror works in comics, cartoons, literature, film, and rpgs because of the storytelling; not because of what the characters can do.
I'd prefer to see 4th edition Lankhmar myself.
Bring back Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser!
These guys haven't really been touched on since 2nd edition.
Oh yeah baby! Or maybe I will be greedy and say I want both. I am a huge Ravenloft fan. My brother and I played that original module probably a hundred times. I loved the 2ndE boxed set. I would love some compiled fluff.
Or maybe even a set of books- 'Campaign Settings I' 'Campaign Settings II' and so on.
I expect that rather then releasing a single book for Ravenloft, or for other 'minor' campaign settings, WotC might do something along the lines of a 'campaign setting anthology', where it sticks the underappreciated settings into a single book that covers them all in sequence.
Or maybe even a set of books- 'Campaign Settings I' 'Campaign Settings II' and so on.
Or "Campaign Classics". Oh the humanity! LOL
Oh yeah baby! Or maybe I will be greedy and say I want both. I am a huge Ravenloft fan. My brother and I played that original module probably a hundred times. I loved the 2ndE boxed set. I would love some compiled fluff.
Yes and they should put it in the same black box