Ravenloft campaign could introduce the Shadow Source...whatever the Source might be
Except that by the time that the next Campaign Setting comes out *coughDarkSuncough*, the Shadow power source will have been debuted for close to half a year thanks to the assassin.
not only that, but there will be no Ravenloft campaign setting because it's core.
I know Ravenloft was mentioned in the planes book. And I saw that Domains of Dread were included in the core setting. I don't see how this excludes it from getting its own campaign setting though. Did WotC say this somewhere or is this statement an assumption?
The reason I ask is because Ravenloft could technically be in any other world. Or at least have a connection to other worlds. Forgotten Realms, Dragon Lance, Dark Sun and Grey Hawk all had domain themes in previous editions of Ravenloft. This would also explain why it's a part of the Core setting also.
I'm not saying that WotC will make a Ravenloft Campaign anytime soon. I would be very surprised if Dragon Lance wasn't next. But I have seen statements like this before and was wondering what information has been put out there that leads people to this train of thought.
Also introduction of sources I know in the past have always been DDI or PHB, but is this a rule or a trend? Just curious definitely not challenging this one. And the assassin point is true.
I guess my point is that the full rules of the source could be launched in the shadow realm. I see how PHB3 could do that.
But I thought that if Ravenloft (being in the shadow realm...I think:D ) was to come out in the near feature, this would be an excellent way to have full rules on it -imho.
Power sources debut only in Player's Handbooks or DDi, not campaign settings.
Now that I'm done laughing, I'll just point one thing out for you. Had I a few months ago before they announced the assassin said that DDI would debut power sources you, and everyone else on these boards, would have told me I was wrong just about as bluntly.
I know Ravenloft was mentioned in the planes book. And I saw that Domains of Dread were included in the core setting. I don't see how this excludes it from getting its own campaign setting though. Did WotC say this somewhere or is this statement an assumption?
The Domains of Dread are mentioned in the Manual of the Planes. They said the Domains of Dread would be supported through Dragon. Such as the Sunderheart article in Dragon 368.
Does it mean that a Ravenloft campaign would never appear? Not necessarily. But the chances are horribly slim. Same with Planescape which was folded into Core.
EDIT: I shouldn't have said there'd be no Ravenloft setting, just that it's chances were very, very slim.
I know Ravenloft was mentioned in the planes book. And I saw that Domains of Dread were included in the core setting. I don't see how this excludes it from getting its own campaign setting though. Did WotC say this somewhere or is this statement an assumption?
....Eh sort of? There was a quote about it from a WotC employee saying sometyhing to the effect that there was not much of a need to give it the campaign setting treatment because its core mechanic had been absorbed into the the default fluff. I really don't feel like finding the quote right now though.
I'm not saying that WotC will make a Ravenloft Campaign anytime soon. I would be very surprised if Dragon Lance wasn't next. But I have seen statements like this before and was wondering what information has been put out there that leads people to this train of thought.
*snickers* Yeah Dragonlance.:P
I guess my point is that the full rules of the source could be launched in the shadow realm. I see how PHB3 could do that.
But I thought that if Ravenloft (being in the shadow realm...I think:D ) was to come out in the near feature, this would be an excellent way to have full rules on it -imho.
PHB3 could not do that because we already know there are no shadow classes in it.
And what rules would that be? Power sources(excpet for psionic and divine....) don't need new rules to accompany them. I mean we already have characters running around tapping into the shadow power source, and they didn't need any additional rules just some powers with the shadow keyword.
And what rules would that be? Power sources(excpet for psionic and divine....) don't need new rules to accompany them.
I'm sorry, I know its off topic, but what rules accompany divine classes?
I'm sorry, I know its off topic, but what rules accompany divine classes?
I think he's talking about the Power Source's "mechanic." For Divine, it's Channel Divinity and it's accompanying rules for using them and, I would say, a heavy dose of Radiant energy.
Psionics has a new mechanic. And if you have time...I would like that link if you could send it please...thank you.
And I acknowledged that in my post. However I don't see such a mechanic being likely with regards to the Shadow power source, especially since as I said before it has already debuted technically.
And fine, here is the post in question and here is a follow up post that might give you some long term hope.
I'm sorry, I know its off topic, but what rules accompany divine classes?
I was referring to Channel Divinity. Since Divine was introduced in PHB1 it doesn't "seem" new, but had the divine classes been held over to PHB2 or PHB3 you can be sure that people would see it as a new mechanic(although perhaps with a less severe reaction then they have had to PP).
And I acknowledged that in my post. However I don't see such a mechanic being likely with regards to the Shadow power source, especially since as I said before it has already debuted technically.
It's one PP.
Unless there's something else I missed. I would be surprised if Shadow doesn't have it's own schtick. Truthfully not all power sources have a "mechanic" or at least one that's easy to point to. I couldn't tell you what Primal's mechanic is. It's flavor is primal spirits and how the classes work around that (Rages, wild shape, spirit companions, totemism). Martial has bonuses to weapon use, Divine has CD, Psionics has augmentation (except for Monks who have their own psionic flavor), Arcane has... ummm... spells? :P And ritual casting. Shadow will have something. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the Primal and Divine classes in PHB3 break away from the mechanics already presented for the Sources to be something different since they said they were looking to start adding some more complexity into the mechanics.
And I acknowledged that in my post. However I don't see such a mechanic being likely with regards to the Shadow power source, especially since as I said before it has already debuted technically.
And fine, here is the post in question and here is a follow up post that might give you some long term hope.
I was referring to Channel Divinity. Since Divine was introduced in PHB1 it doesn't "seem" new, but had the divine classes been held over to PHB2 or PHB3 you can be sure that people would see it as a new mechanic(although perhaps with a less severe reaction then they have had to PP).
Thank you so much for the links. I have read both his posts and it seems to me that they wanted people to be able to experience the themes of the worlds right away from the core setting. The second post makes it look like indeed they may explore Ravenloft later. Neither of these posts say that Ravenloft will not be a campaign setting. In fact the comments make it look more encouraging.
so this
There was a quote about it from a WotC employee saying sometyhing to the effect that there was not much of a need to give it the campaign setting treatment because its core mechanic had been absorbed into the the default fluff. I really don't feel like finding the quote right now though.
Is not even close to what he said.
Power points and a lack of encounter powers is a mechanic, channel divinity is more a shared class feature, mechanically it doesn't work any different that any other power, nor does it function under rules that are different than those of other powers (like augmentation does)
Channel Divinity is indeed a mechanic. They have their own rules associated with them (how to get them, how they work, etc). Or did rules stop being mechanics when I wasn't looking?
If you want to get really technical... every class feature is a mechanic.I am just about to wrap up my 4ed Ravenloft campaign, using only material provided by WotC. My players seem to be having a good time, and the feel is still there.
I can't understand why people here would want to pay for a setting book, when they can get the same info for the monthly fee for DDi, on top of all the other stuff the service provides.
Is it really worth the $40 for the book just to get a "trapped in the mist" skill challenge, or taint/insanity/some other lame mechanic that is supposed to create dramatic tension?
Have you read the Ravenloft articles? They are pretty good, and there are more coming, most likely.
Now that I'm done laughing, I'll just point one thing out for you. Had I a few months ago before they announced the assassin said that DDI would debut power sources you, and everyone else on these boards, would have told me I was wrong just about as bluntly.
Whatevs.
I respond to a new Ravenloft thread at least once a week, so here it goes with this one:
I am just about to wrap up my 4ed Ravenloft campaign, using only material provided by WotC. My players seem to be having a good time, and the feel is still there.
I can't understand why people here would want to pay for a setting book, when they can get the same info for the monthly fee for DDi, on top of all the other stuff the service provides.
Is it really worth the $40 for the book just to get a "trapped in the mist" skill challenge, or taint/insanity/some other lame mechanic that is supposed to create dramatic tension?
Have you read the Ravenloft articles? They are pretty good, and there are more coming, most likely.
Nice, can you tell me more about what you ran? There's two articles and the stuff from the planes right? What else am I missing?
This is great! I didn't realize there was so much stuff that you can run a whole campaign on Ravenloft now. I can't wait to get my players into the Domains of Dread...see who the Dark Lords are...their motivations, skills, landscape, how they close the borders, other neat monsters that have evolved from Ravenloft, if Azalin is in Ravenloft again, what Strahd's full domain looks like/his motivations, did Lord Soth still avoid the mists, what the map of Domains of Dread looks like, does the Apparatus still work the same way and are the Mind Flayers and their land still insanely deadly, do dark points work the same way, look at the Van Richten stuff.
Wow, I'm really glad that you told me we didn't need a setting book/published material, since all this stuff was already released. Thanks!
Nice, can you tell me more about what you ran? There's two articles and the stuff from the planes right? What else am I missing?
This is great! I didn't realize there was so much stuff that you can run a whole campaign on Ravenloft now. I can't wait to get my players into the Domains of Dread...see who the Dark Lords are...their motivations, skills, landscape, how they close the borders, other neat monsters that have evolved from Ravenloft, if Azalin is in Ravenloft again, what Strahd's full domain looks like/his motivations, did Lord Soth still avoid the mists, what the map of Domains of Dread looks like, does the Apparatus still work the same way and are the Mind Flayers and their land still insanely deadly, do dark points work the same way, look at the Van Richten stuff.
Wow, I'm really glad that you told me we didn't need a setting book/published material, since all this stuff was already released. Thanks!
If you want a Ravenloft CS, you're obviously a fan of Ravenloft, and therefore likely have a previous edition's material. Use that to provide setting details. The existing 4E material provides plenty of mechanical support.
You don't need to have a current edition campaign setting book to use a setting in the current edition.
If you want a Ravenloft CS, you're obviously a fan of Ravenloft, and therefore likely have a previous edition's material. Use that to provide setting details. The existing 4E material provides plenty of mechanical support.
You don't need to have a current edition campaign setting book to use a setting in the current edition.
You are absolutely correct on this. But by that thought process, the same could be said for any of the CS that have yet to be released. My problem is that the assumption 'just make do with what you have' is a little condescending
If you don't like Ravenloft, that's of course fine. But those that would like to see a Ravenloft Campaign are seen as less valid from those that would prefer a DS or DL CS. I think most that are against Ravenloft, never played it.
Here's my rational for it. Ravenloft was in 1e and 2e made by TSR and when 3e came out, White Wolf made it. Having a third party make the CS, lets others (whom had no experience with 2e) think that the CS is not really a part of D&D. So I read all kind of excuses as to why material shouldn't be made by WotC. It's in core already. It's really not a CS to begin with. I run the game myself and make do- so you should too. The point of my OP was not to debate Ravenloft CS validity. My point was to show how a CS about Ravenloft could tell us more about the Shadowfell.
Lets face it, until the fanboys get their beloved CS (DL, DS, Birthright?)- they will shout down anything that competes with what THEY want. I just wish people would be more upfront about it and less smoke and mirrors. Because stating facts that are just opinions to get your point across tends to be a little annoying.
For me whatever they come out with next I will be interested in. I think DS and DL could be very cool. All of these CS have a strong following for a reason and belong in D&D. Pretending one is better than the other based on preference is just silly:D
Ravenloft differs from the baseline only in tone, and tone doesn't need new rules for a new edition. Unless they can come up with some sort of contribution that Ravenloft would make to existing settings, including a typical homebrew, I don't see the need for an updated CS.
I don't understand what you mean here. 'Ravenloft differs from baseline only in tone'. That statement is just false. Have you ever played in a Ravenloft Campaign? Or do you just know that it's some place where undead things are and it's spooky. Ravenloft is very different from other CS.
I don't understand what you mean here. 'Ravenloft differs from baseline only in tone'. That statement is just false. Have you ever played in a Ravenloft Campaign? Or do you just know that it's some place where undead things are and it's spooky. Ravenloft is very different from other CS.
Yes. I've played in it. I've read the Ravenloft campaign setting for multiple editions. I've even read novels. And I'm not seeing how Ravenloft has anything new or unique to contribute.
Yes. I've played in it. I've read the Ravenloft campaign setting for multiple editions. I've even read novels. And I'm not seeing how Ravenloft has anything new or unique to contribute.
If what you say is true, I'm finding it hard to understand how you can make such broad statements that are untrue.
The dark powers, the mists, the dark lords, the evil sinks, monsters unique to the domain, the lands, the items (powerful and/or cursed). These are all unique things and it may or may not be new depending on what they put in it. But it will give an update for 4e rules and once again have the owner of the game system give an official update instead of shoving it off to a third party.
You may not be able to see how Ravenloft wouldn't have anything new or unique to contribute, but I see a wealth of ideas they could explore in the new 4e setting.
If what you say is true, I'm finding it hard to understand how you can make such broad statements that are untrue.
The dark powers, the mists, the dark lords, the evil sinks, monsters unique to the domain, the lands, the items (powerful and/or cursed). These are all unique things and it may or may not be new depending on what they put in it. But it will give an update for 4e rules and once again have the owner of the game system give an official update instead of shoving it off to a third party.
You may not be able to see how Ravenloft wouldn't have anything new or unique to contribute, but I see a wealth of ideas they could explore in the new 4e setting.
Yes, but "unique" is not the same thing as "unique and yet applicable to games not utilizing this exact setting."
Yes, but "unique" is not the same thing as "unique and yet applicable to games not utilizing this exact setting."
I completely agree with you. Which is why I'm asking for a Campaign Setting instead of a Supplement Book. Otherwise, Open Grave would be sufficient to cobble something together.
I completely agree with you. Which is why I'm asking for a Campaign Setting instead of a Supplement Book. Otherwise, Open Grave would be sufficient to cobble something together.
To me, it sounds more like you're asking for a few Dragon articles on the few mechanical aspects that need converting, then using the fluff from previous editions' books.
A Campaign Setting book is a full once-a-year hardcover. I'd really rather those resources be devoted to something new and different and not 85% already contained in the currently existing material.
To me, it sounds more like you're asking for a few Dragon articles on the few mechanical aspects that need converting, then using the fluff from previous editions' books.
A Campaign Setting book is a full once-a-year hardcover. I'd really rather those resources be devoted to something new and different and not 85% already contained in the currently existing material.
Ah IC, you want a completely new Campaign that hasn't seen the light of day before that you can use for some of your homebrew campaign?
Ah IC, you want a completely new Campaign that hasn't seen the light of day before that you can use for some of your homebrew campaign?
Yes. I would like to see a new campaign setting, with material that will be useful to existing, ongoing campaigns. Or an old campaign setting, as long as it also had useful material. I don't want a major book to be devoted to something that is only useful to me if I want to play in a specific campaign setting.
Yes. I would like to see a new campaign setting, with material that will be useful to existing, ongoing campaigns. Or an old campaign setting, as long as it also had useful material. I don't want a major book to be devoted to something that is only useful to me if I want to play in a specific campaign setting.
*nods* and what old campaign setting would have useful material that you could use, that hasn't been published before?
*nods* and what old campaign setting would have useful material that you could use, that hasn't been published before?
That's a good question. Most of them are "standard fantasy" enough that they aren't going to contribute much, while a number of the ones that aren't really aren't, to the point that they don't contribute that much to a fantasy campaign.
I'm not really familiar with Dark Sun, but it might have some elements I could borrow.
I'm mostly hoping for Dark Sun next year, if we have to have something familiar, and a new setting after that.
That's a good question. Most of them are "standard fantasy" enough that they aren't going to contribute much, while a number of the ones that aren't really aren't, to the point that they don't contribute that much to a fantasy campaign.
I'm not really familiar with Dark Sun, but it might have some elements I could borrow.
I'm mostly hoping for Dark Sun next year, if we have to have something familiar, and a new setting after that.
I'm not too familiar with DS either. It seems to have an avid fan base though.
or even a whole wrap up book of realms lore, domains of dread, even with copies of the stuff on ddi, which i have i don't think i would mind spending extra cash on what would be more or less a reprint with some bonus features, such as an extra race, gear and whatnot.
how impossible would it be for them to make a manual of the planes 2:feywilde, manual of the planes 3: shadowfell (ravenloft reborn), manual of the planes 4:planescape...
or even a whole wrap up book of realms lore, domains of dread, even with copies of the stuff on ddi, which i have i don't think i would mind spending extra cash on what would be more or less a reprint with some bonus features, such as an extra race, gear and whatnot.
I'd say right now it looks more likely that they would make The Planes Beside: Secrets of the Feywild and Shadowfell rather than iterate Manual of the Planes. And there would be no race nor gear in such a book. Assuming they do make such a book, I imagine any domains they put in it will be having their premier in the book(and I imagine at least one major 2nd edition domain would be present).
how impossible would it be for them to make a manual of the planes 2:feywilde, manual of the planes 3: shadowfell (ravenloft reborn), manual of the planes 4:planescape...
Well, with The Plane Below: Elemental Chaos coming out in... December? And the Plane Above: The Astral Sea next year, it's likely the Feywild and Shadowfell will be their own sourcebooks, not another MotP.
or even a whole wrap up book of realms lore, domains of dread, even with copies of the stuff on ddi, which i have i don't think i would mind spending extra cash on what would be more or less a reprint with some bonus features, such as an extra race, gear and whatnot.
They are. It's called "Dragon Annual." There's another domain of dread in Dragon this month. So the Dragon Annual should have two of them if those articles get printed in it.