but unsolicited opinions aside, WoTC has released some web content to support 4E Ravenloft. My understanding is that Ravenloft is now a small corner of the Shadowfell...but I could be wrong.
I could see Wizards fleshing it out as a campaign setting in the future, since the direction seems to be settings that have their own unique identity...and the horror theme of Ravenloft sets it apart from the other settings.
My theory is still Dark Sun in 2010 though.
I like Ravenloft as a setting. I dunno why I'm so drawn to it's gothic horror theme. I guess it would be fun to try something different out like that. Sometimes it's fun to be scared and Ravenloft had some really creepy stuff in it. Though I wonder how in the world any of the new races would fit? Ravenloft people are VERY xenophobic. They even hate the pretty races like elves! Dragonborn and Tiefling would most likely be killed on sight or run out of town!
I'd just think maybe the Shadowfell hides Ravenloft or is what is beyond the mists?
I believe Domains are like little individual pockets surrounded by mists within the Shadowfell, apparently escaping a Domain is still rough.
and from Kas's entry in Open Grave, he appears to still have his domain. Just trapped there anymore.
Madness checks ftw.
Don't forget the Dark powers Checks to see if you start becoming a domain lord.
they did release a Epic Destiny last month that has you become a dark lord and get taken into the mists to rule a domain, so It does seem to be at least somewhat incorporated into the Shadowfel, or one version of Ravenloft at least.
Where did they release that?
Where did they release that?
In a Dragon Article
Open Grave - Strahd
MotP - Domains of Dread
Dragon 372 - Darklord ED
4E is high action with cinematic "powers", relatively tough heroes and, at higher levels, drawn out slug-fests with monsters. All of this seems to be the very antithesis of creepy, sublte gothic storytelling.
Also, I don't see Ravenloft going together with more save or die. The whole point of a horror setting is building up tension; escalating that creeped-out feeling. That can't be done when your PC crumples up from a roll of the d20.
I'd like to see Ravenloft, though as a plug-in rather than standalone setting. Oh, and make it mean. Really mean. Mournlands mean.
I like 4E and a like Ravenloft...i just dont think they go together too well.
4E is high action with cinematic "powers", relatively tough heroes and, at higher levels, drawn out slug-fests with monsters. All of this seems to be the very antithesis of creepy, sublte gothic storytelling.
Not really. Some of 4th ed is creepy already. Ravenloft follows it's own rules. They could totally do it and provide Ravenlofts "houserules" for changes on how things work and themes and such. Like normally in settings a Paladins mount and other PCs familiars are good. Notso in Ravenloft. They are evil but loyal to the Paladin. Everyone else is fair game. Even ticking off the Paly could mean his mount kills you somehow.
If 4e was really that nice to the players, I wouldn't be reading about TPKs so often.
Also, I don't see Ravenloft going together with more save or die. The whole point of a horror setting is building up tension; escalating that creeped-out feeling. That can't be done when your PC crumples up from a roll of the d20.
I'd like to see Ravenloft, though as a plug-in rather than standalone setting. Oh, and make it mean. Really mean. Mournlands mean.
It can indeed still build up tension and horror. Call of Chtulou does it and lots of creatures can kill you one hit. Deadlands does it and sometimes you can die from fear alone.
I'd like to see Ravenloft as a stand alone setting. I love all the different domains of dread. Oh and speaking of the Mournlands it would totally make sense if it had a portal to Ravenloft. ALTHOUGH Keith Baker did state numerous times that Eberron is NOT in the same cosomology as Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, Spelljammer, Toril or any other worlds. (But then of course I believe that was changed later but they are heretics!)
Save or die effects are no longer in the core rules and are unlikely to appear in supplemental settings. It would reintroduce an element to the game the designers specifically tried to eliminate.
Also, why kill the characters when it's so much more fun to screw with them?
It can indeed still build up tension and horror. Call of Chtulou does it and lots of creatures can kill you one hit. Deadlands does it and sometimes you can die from fear alone.
I'd like to see Ravenloft as a stand alone setting. I love all the different domains of dread. Oh and speaking of the Mournlands it would totally make sense if it had a portal to Ravenloft. ALTHOUGH Keith Baker did state numerous times that Eberron is NOT in the same cosomology as Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, Spelljammer, Toril or any other worlds. (But then of course I believe that was changed later but they are heretics!)
Though comparing D&D with Cthulu is a bit apples and oranges. Cthulu PCs are a lot closer to ordinary people than D&D heroes, and are there to investigate rather than square off against creatures. A 'one-hit-die' mechanic makes far more sense in Cthulu than D&D.
Keith Baker was speaking during the time of 3.5, when he deliberately built his cosmology differently from mainstream D&D. Now I believe they're more in line. Though the planes weren't really a big thing with 3rd Edition, being mentioned in a couple of supplements then largely ignored. Which made it easy enough for a guy like Keith Baker to roll his own. 4th Edition looks to be making them more front-and-center. I don't think we're going to see a setting that radically alters the planar configuration.
If 4e was really that nice to the players, I wouldn't be reading about TPKs so often.
Also, I don't see Ravenloft going together with more save or die. The whole point of a horror setting is building up tension; escalating that creeped-out feeling. That can't be done when your PC crumples up from a roll of the d20.
With 4e, players die in TPKs in knock-down drag-out brawls and slug fests though, not as the result of slowly building gothic tension. "Horror" doesnt come from going toe to toe with a bunch of hp sacks that slowly grind down your resources. DnD has never really had the ideal mechanics for gothic horror compared to other systems, and this is even more true with 4E.
Id' still like to be able to use Ravenloft how it was originally used. I'd just think maybe the Shadowfell hides Ravenloft or is what is beyond the mists?
Then I say go for it!
We have the "updated" stats for Strahd. Throw in some lesser vampires and other undead, and you can use all the fluff from the older editions. I broke out my 2E "Domains of Dread" book, the "Nightmare Lands" boxed set, the original module from 1E, and a lot of the stuff from 3E to see how it could be done. There is so much flavor in there that is system neutral that you should be able to easily incorporate it into a 4E campaign.I have been throwing random patches of mists at my players, and they all shudder when the encounter them; they think they are going to Ravenloft! When it passes, they relax and sigh. When I really claim them for the dark realms, it will probably be explained as a "crossing" to the Shadowfell, but they don't need to know that. If they ever escape, they will be released into the Shadowfell itself, not the world, so they will leave horror to find desolation...and since they only know about it IRL, I can only imagine what their PCs will think...yay!
they did release a Epic Destiny last month that has you become a dark lord and get taken into the mists to rule a domain...
TCurrently we only have one Domain of Dread actually detailed, in an issue of Dragon. It is a new Domain ruled by a Tiefling who has the corpse of her brother, who she killed, permenantly attached to her back......it was a very interesting location.
Where are each of these detailed? I must have totally missed it.
I have been throwing random patches of mists at my players, and they all shudder when the encounter them; they think they are going to Ravenloft! When it passes, they relax and sigh.
Haha yeah, some of my players who have been with me for a long time have gotten this way. Mist in general just worries them because they know me far too well.
With 4e, players die in TPKs in knock-down drag-out brawls and slug fests though, not as the result of slowly building gothic tension. "Horror" doesnt come from going toe to toe with a bunch of hp sacks that slowly grind down your resources. DnD has never really had the ideal mechanics for gothic horror compared to other systems, and this is even more true with 4E.
Taken me a while to reply to this one, but never mind.
A good DM in any form of D&D can certainly evoke an atmosphere of gothic horror. Sure, the mechanics in 4e don't include any form of fear, sanity or corruption rules - 4e is yet to receive its "Heroes of Horror". But I think the major impediment to horror in D&D is the ongoing expectation that if the heroes run into it, they fight it. Conversely, the protagonists in traditional horror are ordinary people who're unable to confront the 'evil' directly and must work around it, staying out of its way, until they find out how to defeat it.
In other words, it's hard to replicate Pennywise in D&D because the PCs expect to stomp down into the sewer and kick Pennywise's ass. Systems I've seen for horror in D&D require the players to accept that their PCs can now be hurt by things that couldn't hurt them before, e.g. the sight of something nasty. Or "slowly building gothic tension". Which is ultimately unsatisfying, so I prefer horror in D&D games to be kept to vivid narrative descriptions. Mechanical horror rules belong in games where the PCs are more ordinary folks than superhumans.
Where are each of these detailed? I must have totally missed it.
372- Masters of the Planes
368-Domains of Dread: Sunderheart, the Funeral City
In other words, it's hard to replicate Pennywise in D&D because the PCs expect to stomp down into the sewer and kick Pennywise's ass. Systems I've seen for horror in D&D require the players to accept that their PCs can now be hurt by things that couldn't hurt them before, e.g. the sight of something nasty. Or "slowly building gothic tension". Which is ultimately unsatisfying, so I prefer horror in D&D games to be kept to vivid narrative descriptions. Mechanical horror rules belong in games where the PCs are more ordinary folks than superhumans.
This is exactly why its really hard to have "real" gothic horror when everyone is superhuman: an encounter with evil means hp grinding instead of a swift and bloody death. I think the best they can do is slap a gothic coat of paint on 4E and give us Castlevania or VanHelsing (with Hugh Jackman) since something like Edgar Allen Poe or Bram Stoker just doesnt fit the system.
This is exactly why its really hard to have "real" gothic horror when everyone is superhuman: an encounter with evil means hp grinding instead of a swift and bloody death. I think the best they can do is slap a gothic coat of paint on 4E and give us Castlevania or VanHelsing (with Hugh Jackman) since something like Edgar Allen Poe or Bram Stoker just doesnt fit the system.
Yeah, you're probably right, that's why d20 CoC didn't quite capture it as well as the regular Chaosium system.
How about a kick down the door and beat the crap out of Byakhee style campaign?!
DMs get so wrapped up in the standard encounter they often forget that the game is entirely in their hands. Its an imaginary world; anything is possible.
Is Darksun really that popular? I never met many people who played it at all when it was out.
I knew a lot of people who did. It was a great setting, one of the best - just difficult to run well, and potentially too one-note for the sort of diverse cornucopia-style game worlds that Wizards seems to prefer now.
But I think both Dark Sun and Ravenloft deserve a supplement of their own. As does Sigil + Mechanos!