Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Goken100 Mar 09, 2011 14:22:54	All this vampire talk made me think that I thought we already had something from a while back, and then I found it here: www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/d... This allowed players to be vampiric with bloodline feats, pretty cool.  It would be nice if this older content had some synergy with the newer vampiric stuff.  Buy even if it doesn't, now there's a way to make the ultimate vampire: a Dhampyr Vryloka Vampire!
#2 calronmoonflower Mar 09, 2011 17:14:05	Yes, I even made the Dhampyr into a trope. However, because the dhampyr is a half vampire it doesn't make much sense to have a half vampire vampire. Of course that doesn't mean that the rules will not allow it.
#3 Damon_Tor Mar 10, 2011 0:33:57	After Heroes of Shadow, you could have a Vyrloka Vampire Dhampyre.  The redundancy is redundant.
#4 lokiare Mar 10, 2011 0:46:42	After Heroes of Shadow, you could have a Vyrloka Vampire Dhampyre.  The redundancy is redundant.
#5 QuestorTelloc Mar 10, 2011 13:47:47	As I posted somewhere else (I forget where), a Dhampyr Revenant (Vryloka) Vampire seems redundant, but actually could have a very plausible backstory: A Vryloka vampire (non-PC) dies, and comes back as a PC revenant- (That covers the race). This time around, it seeks to enhance its natural vamprism, and embarks on the path as a Vampire (class covered). Whenever they take the Dhampyr bloodline feat, a short roleplaying event between levels tell how another vampire they knew before they died bit them again, enhancing their vampirism with an infusion of new blood. (Dhampyrism covered.) Point: they may cover some of the same territory, but that close thematic relationship can benefit roleplaying, depending on where you want your character to go.
#6 lokiare Mar 10, 2011 21:15:56	As I posted somewhere else (I forget where), a Dhampyr Revenant (Vryloka) Vampire seems redundant, but actually could have a very plausible backstory: A Vryloka vampire (non-PC) dies, and comes back as a PC revenant- (That covers the race). This time around, it seeks to enhance its natural vamprism, and embarks on the path as a Vampire (class covered). Whenever they take the Dhampyr bloodline feat, a short roleplaying event between levels tell how another vampire they knew before they died bit them again, enhancing their vampirism with an infusion of new blood. (Dhampyrism covered.) Point: they may cover some of the same territory, but that close thematic relationship can benefit roleplaying, depending on where you want your character to go. And now we have our justification...
#7 Marandahir Mar 11, 2011 6:03:57	You see, I'd like to see them reprint the entirety of the Dhampyr and Vampiric Heritage feat chain as a MC feat chain for the Vampire.  It would make sense, and would allow them to update it to have the Shadow keyword and also to be more inline with the powers that the Vampire gets, which they are very similar to but still different.
#8 Damon_Tor Mar 11, 2011 17:07:59	Hrm. It's possible a Vampire can't take the Vampiric Heritage feat, because the prequisites require you to be living, and Vampires are not.  It's somewhat ambiguous though, as the exact wording of the prerequisite is "Living Humanoid Race" and since your race is (normally) living it might not actually restrict anything.
#9 lokiare Mar 12, 2011 4:02:05	Hrm. It's possible a Vampire can't take the Vampiric Heritage feat, because the prequisites require you to be living, and Vampires are not.  It's somewhat ambiguous though, as the exact wording of the prerequisite is "Living Humanoid Race" and since your race is (normally) living it might not actually restrict anything. It'll be ok as long as you apply it in the OCB before you pick your class... look we just found a bug that doesn't exist in the OCB yet... How much you wanna bet they miss that when they put it in?
#10 Damon_Tor Mar 12, 2011 23:28:12	Hrm. It's possible a Vampire can't take the Vampiric Heritage feat, because the prequisites require you to be living, and Vampires are not.  It's somewhat ambiguous though, as the exact wording of the prerequisite is "Living Humanoid Race" and since your race is (normally) living it might not actually restrict anything. It'll be ok as long as you apply it in the OCB before you pick your class... look we just found a bug that doesn't exist in the OCB yet... How much you wanna bet they miss that when they put it in? In theory the problem already exists: the revenant is no longer living after it takes the Death's Blessing feat.
#11 lokiare Mar 13, 2011 3:09:21	Hrm. It's possible a Vampire can't take the Vampiric Heritage feat, because the prequisites require you to be living, and Vampires are not.  It's somewhat ambiguous though, as the exact wording of the prerequisite is "Living Humanoid Race" and since your race is (normally) living it might not actually restrict anything. It'll be ok as long as you apply it in the OCB before you pick your class... look we just found a bug that doesn't exist in the OCB yet... How much you wanna bet they miss that when they put it in? In theory the problem already exists: the revenant is no longer living after it takes the Death's Blessing feat. Cool, can someone confirm it already exists...
#12 spreetcg Mar 13, 2011 10:26:35	Hrm. It's possible a Vampire can't take the Vampiric Heritage feat, because the prequisites require you to be living, and Vampires are not.  It's somewhat ambiguous though, as the exact wording of the prerequisite is "Living Humanoid Race" and since your race is (normally) living it might not actually restrict anything. It'll be ok as long as you apply it in the OCB before you pick your class... look we just found a bug that doesn't exist in the OCB yet... How much you wanna bet they miss that when they put it in? In theory the problem already exists: the revenant is no longer living after it takes the Death's Blessing feat. Cool, can someone confirm it already exists... It does exist. Revenant's have daeth's blessing as a racial in dragon article#376(thats where they were first introduced into DDi)
#13 lokiare Mar 13, 2011 14:09:38	Hrm. It's possible a Vampire can't take the Vampiric Heritage feat, because the prequisites require you to be living, and Vampires are not.  It's somewhat ambiguous though, as the exact wording of the prerequisite is "Living Humanoid Race" and since your race is (normally) living it might not actually restrict anything. It'll be ok as long as you apply it in the OCB before you pick your class... look we just found a bug that doesn't exist in the OCB yet... How much you wanna bet they miss that when they put it in? In theory the problem already exists: the revenant is no longer living after it takes the Death's Blessing feat. Cool, can someone confirm it already exists... It does exist. Revenant's have daeth's blessing as a racial in dragon article#376(thats where they were first introduced into DDi) No I meant the bug in the CB that will be caused by that interacting with what the other poster said...
#14 undrave Mar 13, 2011 14:21:25	Dhampyr should be remade as a theme.
#15 MechaPilot Mar 13, 2011 17:16:33	Dhampyr should be remade as a theme. That's probably true of all the "more than human" races like werewolves, franken-people, full-on vampires, zombie-lords, ghoul-lords, ghosts, etc.
#16 lokiare Mar 13, 2011 22:55:07	Looking at the vampire preview, it really looks like they should have made it a theme. You get one encounter power as a class feature. Then you get no choice as you progress. Really that would have made it a theme. In fact in my games anyone that wants to play a vampire can do so as if the class were a theme...They'd also lose the death by radiant and anytime they are hit with radiant they are weakened this would include sunlight...
#17 Marandahir Mar 14, 2011 11:29:54	Again, we weren't previewed any choices, but that doesn't mean there aren't any.  Stop misconstruing the facts, Iokiare.
#18 lokiare Mar 14, 2011 15:03:12	Again, we weren't previewed any choices, but that doesn't mean there aren't any.  Stop misconstruing the facts, Iokiare. I'm not misconstruing anything. We were givin a progression list that has named powers on it. From what we can see there is not choice. Your grasping at straws and hoping for choice, but the evidence at hand is not in your favor...
#19 Marandahir Mar 14, 2011 16:30:07	Again, we weren't previewed any choices, but that doesn't mean there aren't any.  Stop misconstruing the facts, Iokiare. I'm not misconstruing anything. We were givin a progression list that has named powers on it. From what we can see there is not choice. Your grasping at straws and hoping for choice, but the evidence at hand is not in your favor... If you check the Heroic Vampire Advancement Chart, you'll notice under Level One: at-will powers.  Furthermore, under Level Two: utility power. These are where we do not know if we get choices or not from.  Until we know what these "at-will powers" are, the evidence is not in your favour.  You're saying there are no choices.  I'm saying we don't know if there are choices or not.  There is a difference between opposing an argument and supporting the opposite argument. However, I'd have you notice that if there was no choice at level one for at-wills or at level two for your utility, then they most likely would have just listed the auto-utility you gain and the auto-at-wills you gain, rather than saying those words.  Still I do not know, so I will wait.  But I would ask you to please misconstruing the facts and saying there are no choices with this class.  We do not know.
#20 Valien Mar 14, 2011 16:49:08	Again, we weren't previewed any choices, but that doesn't mean there aren't any.  Stop misconstruing the facts, Iokiare. I'm not misconstruing anything. We were givin a progression list that has named powers on it. From what we can see there is not choice. Your grasping at straws and hoping for choice, but the evidence at hand is not in your favor... If you check the Heroic Vampire Advancement Chart, you'll notice under Level One: at-will powers.  Furthermore, under Level Two: utility power. These are where we do not know if we get choices or not from.  Until we know what these "at-will powers" are, the evidence is not in your favour.  You're saying there are no choices.  I'm saying we don't know if there are choices or not.  There is a difference between opposing an argument and supporting the opposite argument. However, I'd have you notice that if there was no choice at level one for at-wills or at level two for your utility, then they most likely would have just listed the auto-utility you gain and the auto-at-wills you gain, rather than saying those words.  Still I do not know, so I will wait.  But I would ask you to please misconstruing the facts and saying there are no choices with this class.  We do not know. You are absolutely right. However, I imagine that what lokiare meant when he said "no choices" was indeed "very few choices, except for your at-wills and the 2nd-level utility power", in which case he is also probably right - at least for the heroic tier, these do seem to be the only class choices aplicable. Of course we cannot be positively sure until the book is out, but, in that preview, WotC really made it look like there are only 2 different moments when you'll choose a power. Also, I'll completely back up MechaPilot's claims that all these half-human or ex-human things (i.e. vampire, werewolf, shades... the list goes on and on) should be made as themes instead of classes/races/feat chains. Or at least, they should be made as themes IN ADDITION to being classes/races/feat chains.
#21 Marandahir Mar 14, 2011 17:17:23	I think they should be in addition to classes/races/feat chains.  WotC seems to be supporting breadth of options to achieve concepts right now.  You want a two bladed-weapon warrior?  Pick between Tempest Weaponmaster, Two-Blade Ranger, Long Blade/Short Blade Scout, and Whirling Barbarian.   You want a sword-and-board warrior?  Both Longsword Knight and Guardian Weaponmaster fit the bill.  Wanna Vampire?  Well, do you want to be a Vampire Sorcerer or an Eladrin Vampire?  Both are possible, as is an Eladrin Sorcerer who is half-Vampire as well.  But themes would allow for another layer of choice for making your Vampire.  At that point, they might not even need a Hybrid or MC option for Vampires, because you can go about it in so many ways.
#22 MechaPilot Mar 14, 2011 18:08:08	I think they should be in addition to classes/races/feat chains. I don't really care for them being classes or races, as we are talking about them being "enhanced races" (essentially) that build off of existing people.  It's for this reason that I think a theme works best.  A theme will allow your character to have both the flavor of the base race and that of the enhanced race (meaning that a drgonborn vamp would feel very different from a tiefling vamp).  Support for this in the form of feats (and paragon paths and epic destinies of course) though is certainly something I'd like to see available to augment the basic theme.
#23 calronmoonflower Mar 14, 2011 19:16:40	Looking at the vampire preview, it really looks like they should have made it a theme. I don't think that there are enough themes right now for that to be a good option.
#24 MechaPilot Mar 14, 2011 19:40:23	Looking at the vampire preview, it really looks like they should have made it a theme. I don't think that there are enough themes right now for that to be a good option. No offense, but that's actually a really horrible reason to NOT do something. Now, if you mean that themes aren't well established among gaming groups, or if they haven't shown the breadth necessary to accomplish races like Vampires and werewolves, then that's certainly worth discussing.
#25 calronmoonflower Mar 15, 2011 19:05:04	Looking at the vampire preview, it really looks like they should have made it a theme. I don't think that there are enough themes right now for that to be a good option. No offense, but that's actually a really horrible reason to NOT do something. It is however a good reason not to do it ALONE. If you include it in a package of several themes or release enough themes before, around the same time, or even later as part of a series it should work. I do not feel the mechanic itself isn't currently established enough to support, but that can be fixed. Perhaps they could start a theme article series in Dragon. Now, if you mean that themes aren't well established among gaming groups, or if they haven't shown the breadth necessary to accomplish races like Vampires and werewolves, then that's certainly worth discussing. No. I mean there are currently only ten themes, most of which are setting specific. I do not believe that there are enough to support an averaged group outside of Dark Sun. If you cannot support the group it leads to problems.