Request MC feat with Monk playtest - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Request MC feat with Monk playtest

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zagora_01
Mar 04, 2009 8:54:01 This is mostly for the devs. I hope this is the write place.

I am begging a pleading that when you launch the monk playtest in May that you also release the Multi-class feat for that class at the same time. After all, how can we properly playtest the class if we can't see how well it meshes as a multiclass option.

Also, if you are feeling extremely generous you could throw out a few class feats as well.
#2
madninjapimp
Mar 04, 2009 9:36:43 I agree if only for the reason that it will make the character builder easier to use. Currently I can make a houserule feat that lets me multiclass barbarian, for example. But using the powerswaps for it (or paragon multiclassing.... ) is very cumbersome.
#3
belladonna5012
Mar 04, 2009 11:01:50 Agree.

In fact, it'd be really nice if there were two MC feats. One that lets you fight unarmed, another that lets you fight unarmoured!

I will also note that if monks use their fists (as it should be!) it must be explained right in the article where their enhancement bonuses to attack and damage rolls come from, including a helping of appropriate magic items and their rules (where AC is concerned, I expect that monks will simply wear cloth, as opposed to "none whatsoever").
#4
wizardmon
Mar 04, 2009 11:36:55 I bet monks recieve a +3 proficency with their Unarmed attack, and recievce an enhancement bonus equal to that of the cloth armor they wear. At least, base don 3.5 monk, that is how I would do it.
#5
Tharag_Bocc
Mar 04, 2009 11:46:14
In fact, it'd be really nice if there were two MC feats. One that lets you fight unarmed, another that lets you fight unarmoured!

The ability to fight unarmed may very well be built into the monks powers. In much the way the fighter's powers use the "weapon" keyword and a wizard's powers have the "implement" keyword, perhaps a monks powers will have the "unarmed" keyword.

Anyway, on top of seeing a multiclass feat, I personally would like to see the monk play test provide a demo of half of each build instead of all of a single build. I feel that it would give us a better grasp of what the class as a whole is trying to accomplish which would in turn allow us to provide WotC with better feedback.
#6
ranadiel
Mar 04, 2009 12:04:10 I don't think this is the best place to post something if you want developers to see it as there isn't evdidence that the developers frequent here. The D&Di forum might be a better bet.....not that I know that they frequent there too much either.

I bet monks recieve a +3 proficency with their Unarmed attack, and recievce an enhancement bonus equal to that of the cloth armor they wear. At least, base don 3.5 monk, that is how I would do it.

The problem with this is that it messes with the player economy. The monk would only need two of the three major items(weapon, armor, and neck item) giving the class as a whole an advantage when it comes to resources. Considering that they went through the trouble of giving casters implements in order to force them into the same mold, I think monks will have something although it might be more of an implement for channeling ki then a weapon.
#7
wizardmon
Mar 04, 2009 14:29:36 Makes sense. Then, perhaps, a monk might be proficent with the traditional "monk" weapons, as well as perhaps iron knuckles or wrist-wraps, which allow them to attack with magically-enhanced fists?

As far as "unnarmed" keyword goes, I doubt it. Possibly, a Requirement that sayd "must be unnarmed." But I doubt.
#8
That_Blasted_Somoflange
Mar 04, 2009 14:47:24
In fact, it'd be really nice if there were two MC feats. One that lets you fight unarmed, another that lets you fight unarmoured!

I doubt very much that monks will be fighting unarmoured at all. Cloth is a type of armour now, and I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that monks are going to be proficient in that. Actually it is very easy to make a fighter, that wears only cloth armour without sacrificing much in the way of AC. Trust me I'm doing it with a character now, so you don't need to have a feat for that in my opinion. Now, I bet if the monk is a striker, of which I think it is, their extra damage attack will be based on the flurry of blows, and that is what would be given in the multi-class feat.
#9
Nautilus
Mar 04, 2009 15:02:10 Cloth armor, of the basic sort, is normal clothing. To not have that as a proficiency would require monks to be naked. Which we don't want.

I think the monk will use implements; one of those being the staff, and the other being a worn implement (headband?) to permit unarmed fighting.
#10
Bolongo
Mar 04, 2009 15:26:44
I think the monk will use implements; one of those being the staff, and the other being a worn implement (headband?) to permit unarmed fighting.

I agree, but I don't think the implement will take up a slot for another category of item. It either has to go in the weapons slot, or the "no slot" (where holy symbols are worn).
#11
Grazel
Mar 04, 2009 15:37:07 Well keep in mind that in most cases a caster's implements are optional, not required and provide a caster with a way to supplement their power with a magic item the way a martial character supplements their attacks with a magical weapon.

Monks will likely have 'fist weapons', things that enhance their attacks without being a sword or staff, etc. since even a fighter can for the most part specialize in unarmed strike, it's just weaker than most any actual weapon.

Magical weapons would likely also include various gloves/gauntlets that enhance attack, 'fist weapons' such as punch daggers, brass knuckles, and maybe even just cloth 'wraps' for the hands. Also there's no reason at least one build of the monk won't be a weapons-wielder. Not all monks are purely unarmed combatants.

For armor I suspect they'll likely be cloth wearers and maybe leather and/or hide, depending on how they specialize. After all the monk's specialty should be more in how their powers work than by running around in a robe and doing katas. I could however see them as having a class feature that gives them a bonus to AC (or an alt stat like wis for determining AC) if they're in cloth or even light armor.

But I agree with the OP that we should get more than just a single build to playtest with. We should get at least the basic MC feat and maybe a couple class feats and at leas tone PP if they're gonna do a full 1-30 playtest like the artificer.
#12
Nautilus
Mar 04, 2009 16:27:22
I agree, but I don't think the implement will take up a slot for another category of item. It either has to go in the weapons slot, or the "no slot" (where holy symbols are worn).

'Worn', with respect to implements, does mean the 'no slot'. I think the player chooses where a worn implement should go, so while clerics may wear their symbols round their necks, paladins might embed theirs in their shields.
#13
LordArchaon
Mar 08, 2009 20:53:11 I strongly second this motion, especially if it means some unarmed combat for anyone who takes the feat. It's really needed, we need good unarmed options for every character.
#14
undrave
Mar 08, 2009 21:14:16 Maybe the implements could be magical tatoos that help the flow of ki!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zagora_01 Mar 04, 2009 8:54:01	This is mostly for the devs. I hope this is the write place. I am begging a pleading that when you launch the monk playtest in May that you also release the Multi-class feat for that class at the same time. After all, how can we properly playtest the class if we can't see how well it meshes as a multiclass option. Also, if you are feeling extremely generous you could throw out a few class feats as well.
#2 madninjapimp Mar 04, 2009 9:36:43	I agree if only for the reason that it will make the character builder easier to use. Currently I can make a houserule feat that lets me multiclass barbarian, for example. But using the powerswaps for it (or paragon multiclassing.... ) is very cumbersome.
#3 belladonna5012 Mar 04, 2009 11:01:50	Agree. In fact, it'd be really nice if there were two MC feats. One that lets you fight unarmed, another that lets you fight unarmoured! I will also note that if monks use their fists (as it should be!) it must be explained right in the article where their enhancement bonuses to attack and damage rolls come from, including a helping of appropriate magic items and their rules (where AC is concerned, I expect that monks will simply wear cloth, as opposed to "none whatsoever").
#4 wizardmon Mar 04, 2009 11:36:55	I bet monks recieve a +3 proficency with their Unarmed attack, and recievce an enhancement bonus equal to that of the cloth armor they wear. At least, base don 3.5 monk, that is how I would do it.
#5 Tharag_Bocc Mar 04, 2009 11:46:14	In fact, it'd be really nice if there were two MC feats. One that lets you fight unarmed, another that lets you fight unarmoured! The ability to fight unarmed may very well be built into the monks powers. In much the way the fighter's powers use the "weapon" keyword and a wizard's powers have the "implement" keyword, perhaps a monks powers will have the "unarmed" keyword. Anyway, on top of seeing a multiclass feat, I personally would like to see the monk play test provide a demo of half of each build instead of all of a single build. I feel that it would give us a better grasp of what the class as a whole is trying to accomplish which would in turn allow us to provide WotC with better feedback.
#6 ranadiel Mar 04, 2009 12:04:10	I don't think this is the best place to post something if you want developers to see it as there isn't evdidence that the developers frequent here. The D&Di forum might be a better bet.....not that I know that they frequent there too much either. I bet monks recieve a +3 proficency with their Unarmed attack, and recievce an enhancement bonus equal to that of the cloth armor they wear. At least, base don 3.5 monk, that is how I would do it. The problem with this is that it messes with the player economy. The monk would only need two of the three major items(weapon, armor, and neck item) giving the class as a whole an advantage when it comes to resources. Considering that they went through the trouble of giving casters implements in order to force them into the same mold, I think monks will have something although it might be more of an implement for channeling ki then a weapon.
#7 wizardmon Mar 04, 2009 14:29:36	Makes sense. Then, perhaps, a monk might be proficent with the traditional "monk" weapons, as well as perhaps iron knuckles or wrist-wraps, which allow them to attack with magically-enhanced fists? As far as "unnarmed" keyword goes, I doubt it. Possibly, a Requirement that sayd "must be unnarmed." But I doubt.
#8 That_Blasted_Somoflange Mar 04, 2009 14:47:24	In fact, it'd be really nice if there were two MC feats. One that lets you fight unarmed, another that lets you fight unarmoured! I doubt very much that monks will be fighting unarmoured at all. Cloth is a type of armour now, and I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that monks are going to be proficient in that. Actually it is very easy to make a fighter, that wears only cloth armour without sacrificing much in the way of AC. Trust me I'm doing it with a character now, so you don't need to have a feat for that in my opinion. Now, I bet if the monk is a striker, of which I think it is, their extra damage attack will be based on the flurry of blows, and that is what would be given in the multi-class feat.
#9 Nautilus Mar 04, 2009 15:02:10	Cloth armor, of the basic sort, is normal clothing. To not have that as a proficiency would require monks to be naked. Which we don't want. I think the monk will use implements; one of those being the staff, and the other being a worn implement (headband?) to permit unarmed fighting.
#10 Bolongo Mar 04, 2009 15:26:44	I think the monk will use implements; one of those being the staff, and the other being a worn implement (headband?) to permit unarmed fighting. I agree, but I don't think the implement will take up a slot for another category of item. It either has to go in the weapons slot, or the "no slot" (where holy symbols are worn).
#11 Grazel Mar 04, 2009 15:37:07	Well keep in mind that in most cases a caster's implements are optional, not required and provide a caster with a way to supplement their power with a magic item the way a martial character supplements their attacks with a magical weapon. Monks will likely have 'fist weapons', things that enhance their attacks without being a sword or staff, etc. since even a fighter can for the most part specialize in unarmed strike, it's just weaker than most any actual weapon. Magical weapons would likely also include various gloves/gauntlets that enhance attack, 'fist weapons' such as punch daggers, brass knuckles, and maybe even just cloth 'wraps' for the hands. Also there's no reason at least one build of the monk won't be a weapons-wielder. Not all monks are purely unarmed combatants. For armor I suspect they'll likely be cloth wearers and maybe leather and/or hide, depending on how they specialize. After all the monk's specialty should be more in how their powers work than by running around in a robe and doing katas. I could however see them as having a class feature that gives them a bonus to AC (or an alt stat like wis for determining AC) if they're in cloth or even light armor. But I agree with the OP that we should get more than just a single build to playtest with. We should get at least the basic MC feat and maybe a couple class feats and at leas tone PP if they're gonna do a full 1-30 playtest like the artificer.
#12 Nautilus Mar 04, 2009 16:27:22	I agree, but I don't think the implement will take up a slot for another category of item. It either has to go in the weapons slot, or the "no slot" (where holy symbols are worn). 'Worn', with respect to implements, does mean the 'no slot'. I think the player chooses where a worn implement should go, so while clerics may wear their symbols round their necks, paladins might embed theirs in their shields.
#13 LordArchaon Mar 08, 2009 20:53:11	I strongly second this motion, especially if it means some unarmed combat for anyone who takes the feat. It's really needed, we need good unarmed options for every character.
#14 undrave Mar 08, 2009 21:14:16	Maybe the implements could be magical tatoos that help the flow of ki!