Revenants? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Revenants?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
kimby
May 29, 2009 0:35:21 I was just looking at the editorial calender for June and saw "Playing Revenants." I was wondering, Revenants as in an undead race? Or is this a new race who has the same name as the undead creature?

Anyway, just curious...

Thanks in advance.
#2
Mist-Bound
May 29, 2009 1:48:05 No one knows, to be honest. Given the name, though, it's assumed that they'll be an Undead PC race- the current big debate is to whether they'll be a "proper" race, or a chain of feats like the Dhampyr.
#3
Seeker95
May 29, 2009 7:19:13 Hoping for the chain of feats. A revenant isn't something you're born into. It is something you become. And I can see the appeal in playing a PC that eventually becomes a revenant.
#4
lucifernietzsche
May 29, 2009 7:45:39 It's possible to become undead a little at a time...but that's not going to satisfy the people who've been wanting an undead race, anymore than dhampyrs have.

Those who really want to play undead seem to want something more like Necropolitans from 3.5. Obviously, 4e is moving away from templates for PCs, so any such race would be stand-alone, with the physical appearance of a given medium-sized race but only the traits of the undead race, period. Unfortunately, people playing small races are hosed by this...so I'm not fully sure what they'd intend to do about it.

But...who knows, I guess. Regardless, I'm hoping AGAINST a feat chain or the like.
#5
celticmutt
May 29, 2009 9:13:14
Hoping for the chain of feats. A revenant isn't something you're born into. It is something you become. And I can see the appeal in playing a PC that eventually becomes a revenant.

You become it before first level, then it works as a race that you're "born" in to. ;)
#6
tipop
May 29, 2009 9:59:39 How is an undead creature "born"? Are we going to be forced to imagine zombie sex? Zombie pregnancies?
#7
Seeker95
May 29, 2009 10:32:28
Are we going to be forced to imagine zombie sex? Zombie pregnancies?

Resident Evil IV.
#8
zackblack
May 29, 2009 13:44:28
How is an undead creature "born"? Are we going to be forced to imagine zombie sex? Zombie pregnancies?

I'm not touching that one with a 10' holy symbol :D
#9
WerTwist
May 29, 2009 16:46:48
How is an undead creature "born"? Are we going to be forced to imagine zombie sex? Zombie pregnancies?

Watch the movie Braindead... it will answer all your Questions in this regard...
#10
celticmutt
May 29, 2009 17:42:08
How is an undead creature "born"? Are we going to be forced to imagine zombie sex? Zombie pregnancies?

Well, the act of becoming undead is "being born." Or reborn really.
#11
farmer42_dup
May 29, 2009 18:07:28
How is an undead creature "born"? Are we going to be forced to imagine zombie sex? Zombie pregnancies?

When a zombie mommy and a zombie daddy love each other a whole bunch...
Show
they eat the brains of their children, making them zombie children.
#12
Seeker95
May 29, 2009 18:22:55
Well, the act of becoming undead is "being born." Or reborn really.

Not to be confused with being "born again" although I have met some who might easily blur the line between the two generally agreed upon concepts.
#13
lucifernietzsche
May 29, 2009 18:29:54
How is an undead creature "born"? Are we going to be forced to imagine zombie sex? Zombie pregnancies?

Dawn of the Dead...pregnant zombie chick secretly giving birth in the mall. *shudders*
#14
johnthedm7000
May 29, 2009 18:35:51 Personally, I'd prefer to see it as a feat chain. The first feat will symbolize "Alright, you're an undead creature come back to life to wreck unholy vengeance upon your foes." and then further feats will provide extra bonuses and power-swaps.
#15
Marandahir
Jun 01, 2009 0:36:13 Well, you can enjoy your full-fleshed D&Di-only race later this month! Revenants will be a true, full race!
#16
Grazel
Jun 01, 2009 0:54:05 Full race, DDi exclusive. They have ties to the Raven Queen so seem to be souls who don't pass on and come back. They hint at past lives meaning these might even be ones who KEEP coming back.

There's no need for the usual 'born' mechanics in 4e races. We have Devas who are reincarnated 'mortal-bound' angels and the upcoming Wilden which seem to be spawned from the depths of the primal Feywild as adults, and the Warforged which are created/built rather than reproduce.
#17
Walstafa
Jun 01, 2009 10:29:12
Full race, DDi exclusive. They have ties to the Raven Queen so seem to be souls who don't pass on and come back.

See also: The Crow
#18
xenophile
Jun 01, 2009 11:10:03 This is just what I wanted! I've always wanted an undead race (dhampirs don't count), but I was cautious to bring up the subject out of fear that people would equate them to the Forsaken of WoW. But now Wizards is going to make my dream come true!

Also, "revenant" is a cool monster name that isn't used nearly enough.
#19
AvonRekaes
Jun 01, 2009 11:31:28 From the way the article talks about them, how death opens up a new dimension for characters, and how it's only the beginning for the revenant, I'm wondering if you can switch to Revenant racial stats in the middle of a campaign.

For example, you're a dwarf paladin and adventure into the paragon tier. Finally, you die in combat at the hands of a dragon or somesuch. Instead of the party ritual caster casting Raise Dead, they cast "Create Revenant", a ritual that brings you back as a revenant paladin.

Maybe you keep the old race's ability and skill bonii, but replace everything else with the Revenant's abilities.
#20
Tharag_Bocc
Jun 01, 2009 12:20:28
For example, you're a dwarf paladin and adventure into the paragon tier. Finally, you die in combat at the hands of a dragon or somesuch. Instead of the party ritual caster casting Raise Dead, they cast "Create Revenant", a ritual that brings you back as a revenant paladin.

I doubt that such would be the "official" way that PCs become revenants. Though it makes for a reasonable enough house rule, and might get mentioned in a side bar as play-variant/roleplaying-hook.

However, if I were to introduce such a variant, it would be as a one time only free resurrection (no ritual involved). The idea that the party's healer would intentionally revive a character as such a creature just doesn't jive well with me.
#21
AvonRekaes
Jun 01, 2009 12:41:16 What about the party's arcanist? Rituals are rituals. I can see a wizard doing this.

Also, Revenants seem to be blessed by the Raven Queen or something, so her clerics might be inclined to do so.
#22
SongSooGumbup
Jun 01, 2009 12:47:44
I doubt that such would be the "official" way that PCs become revenants. Though it makes for a reasonable enough house rule, and might get mentioned in a side bar as play-variant/roleplaying-hook.

However, if I were to introduce such a variant, it would be as a one time only free resurrection (no ritual involved). The idea that the party's healer would intentionally revive a character as such a creature just doesn't jive well with me.

I see it as more of something the Raven Queen does instead of a party member doing. I think it might work if my current character dies. He is a warlord that worships the Raven Queen since his family was killed off. His hope is that his worship of the Raven Queen will allow him to be reunited with his family quickly after death. Because of this goal, I don't foresee him accepting a resurrection ritual if he dies. With the article on the Raven Queen that was released last month, I could see the Raven Queen saying, "nope, your debt isn't paid, you're going back as a revenant."

I would roll up a new character and might even have a different class. The article says the revenants only have partial memories of their past lives, so the character would only know that he must serve the Raven Queen without fully understanding why. It would be fun to role play this confused slave with only fleeting images of a family he longs to be with occasionally popping into his mind. This would also explain how a new high level character could join the party after the last one died.

(Looking back however, this has a bit of a Spawn feel to it)
#23
Tharag_Bocc
Jun 01, 2009 13:23:19
What about the party's arcanist? Rituals are rituals. I can see a wizard doing this.

I said "healer" without naming any class. To that extent whoever is casting the ritual is the group's "healer" within that instance.

Why bring someone back as half-dead shadow of their former self, when it's just as easy to bring them back exactly as they were. Also, for me becoming a revenant should be something that just spontaneously happens, not some prerehearsed ritual.

I see it as more of something the Raven Queen does instead of a party member doing.

This.

(Looking back however, this has a bit of a Spawn feel to it)

Works for me.
#24
Nyronus
Jun 01, 2009 13:52:42
(Looking back however, this has a bit of a Spawn feel to it)

Curses, and I was just about to make a joke about a waraxe wielding infernal-pact Revenant Warlock.
#25
Zarithar
Jun 02, 2009 9:29:14 Forsaken anyone?
#26
celticmutt
Jun 02, 2009 10:36:10 Because WoW was the first one to have playable undead, amiright?

Oh wait a minute ...
#27
Zarithar
Jun 02, 2009 10:42:44
Because WoW was the first one to have playable undead, amiright?

Oh wait a minute ...

Never claimed that, but they do remind me conceptually of the Forsaken. Certainly revenants as described in the preview have more in common with the Forsaken race (lorewise) than with say White Wolf vampires or what have you. I am also one of those people who:

1. Doesn't dislike WoW
2. Doesn't dislike 4e
3. Doesn't find many similarities between the two games mechanically
4. Recognizes that Azeroth started off as a setting for a D&D campaign back before Orcs vs. Humans was released.
#28
ekio
Jun 02, 2009 12:04:23 Constitution and Wisdom... come onnnn, Constitution and Wisdom. I wanna make a hybrid Avenger|Shaman!
#29
sotp_seamus
Jun 02, 2009 12:32:09 The Revanant was first seen in the First Fiend Folio. It was an undead that reanimated through sheer force of will, as opposed to any arcane or divine intervention.

It was a creature bent on revenge, and the only way to stop it was for it to acheive its goal. The Crow is actually a very apt comparison, but the revenant came first

I guess Uma Turman's character in 'Kill Bill' also qualifies on some weird level.
#30
Tharag_Bocc
Jun 02, 2009 12:58:57
Constitution and Wisdom... come onnnn, Constitution and Wisdom. I wanna make a hybrid Avenger|Shaman!

Is there a problem with dwarf or wilden, or do you specificaly want an undead avenger|shaman?
#31
ekio
Jun 02, 2009 13:01:25
Is there a problem with dwarf or wilden, or do you specificaly want an undead avenger|shaman?

Specifically an undead one. I could just play a dwarf and flavor him undead (and no, I'm not much one for dhampyrs) but... I dunno. I just like the idea of a Revenant avenger who's been guided back to the world by the primal spirits.

EDIT: Constitution and Intelligence seems more likely, but I dunno. I don't remember Revenants from 2/3e (if they were even there). My guesses amount to flailing my arms wildly.
#32
the_badger_02
Jun 02, 2009 13:20:33 I have to say, I'm excited. They look like they could be fun.
#33
aluman
Jun 02, 2009 13:41:54
Never claimed that, but they do remind me conceptually of the Forsaken. Certainly revenants as described in the preview have more in common with the Forsaken race (lorewise) than with say White Wolf vampires or what have you. I am also one of those people who:

1. Doesn't dislike WoW
2. Doesn't dislike 4e
3. Doesn't find many similarities between the two games mechanically
4. Recognizes that Azeroth started off as a setting for a D&D campaign back before Orcs vs. Humans was released.

Personally they sound like old 2E revanants more than anything...
#34
onemanhorde
Jun 02, 2009 13:51:56
Is there a problem with dwarf or wilden, or do you specificaly want an undead avenger|shaman?

Not many people like beards or leaves.
#35
ekio
Jun 02, 2009 13:53:13
Not many people like beards or leaves.

I like beards just fine. >:|
#36
arkady_v
Jun 02, 2009 13:54:33
With the article on the Raven Queen that was released last month...

I missed this, can someone point me to it?
#37
Tharag_Bocc
Jun 02, 2009 14:22:36
Specifically an undead one. I could just play a dwarf and flavor him undead (and no, I'm not much one for dhampyrs) but... I dunno. I just like the idea of a Revenant avenger who's been guided back to the world by the primal spirits.

That's cool. Though to me it seems a reflavored wilden would be a good choice for a lost soul returned to life by the primal spirits. Wilden are after all supposed to be something of an embodiment of nature.
#38
Crodocile
Jun 02, 2009 14:43:59
That's cool. Though to me it seems a reflavored wilden would be a good choice for a lost soul returned to life by the primal spirits. Wilden are after all supposed to be something of an embodiment of nature.

Swamp Thing?
#39
SongSooGumbup
Jun 02, 2009 15:28:58
I missed this, can someone point me to it?

It's from an excerpt for Divine Power from the "May and Beyond" preview. You can find it about half way down. If you're a fan of the Raven Queen, there is a good chance you won't like it.
#40
mendoukusai
Jun 02, 2009 19:04:27
4. Recognizes that Azeroth started off as a setting for a D&D campaign back before Orcs vs. Humans was released.

It was actually supposed to be a Warhammer game, but never got the license. That is why the name is so similar, as is the original premise.
#41
SavevsDeath
Jun 02, 2009 20:00:17
Personally, I'd prefer to see it as a feat chain. The first feat will symbolize "Alright, you're an undead creature come back to life to wreck unholy vengeance upon your foes." and then further feats will provide extra bonuses and power-swaps.

Nope, im betting its going to be a full-blown race. And im glad. I bet there will be a small and medium-sized options for it. Finally i can play an undead creature without having to only half-do it, or use up tons of feats for it. Undead Race + Vampire Heritage feats = full-fledged vampire. Win.
#42
SavevsDeath
Jun 02, 2009 20:04:42
Never claimed that, but they do remind me conceptually of the Forsaken. Certainly revenants as described in the preview have more in common with the Forsaken race (lorewise) than with say White Wolf vampires or what have you. I am also one of those people who:

1. Doesn't dislike WoW
2. Doesn't dislike 4e
3. Doesn't find many similarities between the two games mechanically
4. Recognizes that Azeroth started off as a setting for a D&D campaign back before Orcs vs. Humans was released.

They actually remind me of the Risen, from White Wolf's sub-game of Wraith: The Oblivion. WW Beat WOW to it. And also, why the inevitable 'Zomg wotc is copying WoW'? Seriously, do we all have special snowflake syndrome here? Some ideas are done a lot because theyre cool and fun.
#43
mendoukusai
Jun 02, 2009 20:26:25 The only thing that really concerns me is WotC contradicting themselves by saying that the one deity related to death who supposedly abhors the abomination of undeath is suddenly now favoring a race of undead...how is that supposed to make any sense whatsoever?
#44
zeratulcraft
Jun 02, 2009 20:55:45
The only thing that really concerns me is WotC contradicting themselves by saying that the one deity related to death who supposedly abhors the abomination of undeath is suddenly now favoring a race of undead...how is that supposed to make any sense whatsoever?

The Crow wasn't so much an undead creature as much as he was a form of justice and retribution in human form.
#45
xi_mao
Jun 02, 2009 20:59:03 Maybe they're not so much "undead" in her eyes as they are "Her Children". She picks corpses and animates them to do her bidding. I mean, being the goddess of death and the Shadowfell, you only have so much to work with.

That or maybe she sees them like how many people view things like Taxes and Telephones, Necessary evils. (I for one don't like Telephones, but I mean, substitute anything else that you use all the time but loathe it's existence, like that printer from work that always jams or Automobiles.)
#46
Grazel
Jun 02, 2009 21:11:18 From the blurb we got on them they're not risen corpses. They're undead in the sense that they're departed souls who've come back but that seems to be about it.

They have a new body and only vague memories of their past life. They're a bit more like 'the dead' than 'the undead'. Also with the new fluff in Divine Power about the Raven Queen it seems they've altered her to be more one who wants to control the souls of the dead rather than make sure they pass on properly. That makes revenants not seem as at odds, also they are likely to be her loyal servants in life who she's given a 'new lease' to continue their work. Some of the lore in that blurb seems to contradict previous fluff we've seen on the Raven Queen but maybe the blurb is like most things religious: an interpretation and not literal fact (they did couch it as a 'creation myth' for the Raven Queen from what they showed).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kimby May 29, 2009 0:35:21	I was just looking at the editorial calender for June and saw "Playing Revenants." I was wondering, Revenants as in an undead race? Or is this a new race who has the same name as the undead creature? Anyway, just curious... Thanks in advance.
#2 Mist-Bound May 29, 2009 1:48:05	No one knows, to be honest. Given the name, though, it's assumed that they'll be an Undead PC race- the current big debate is to whether they'll be a "proper" race, or a chain of feats like the Dhampyr.
#3 Seeker95 May 29, 2009 7:19:13	Hoping for the chain of feats. A revenant isn't something you're born into. It is something you become. And I can see the appeal in playing a PC that eventually becomes a revenant.
#4 lucifernietzsche May 29, 2009 7:45:39	It's possible to become undead a little at a time...but that's not going to satisfy the people who've been wanting an undead race, anymore than dhampyrs have. Those who really want to play undead seem to want something more like Necropolitans from 3.5. Obviously, 4e is moving away from templates for PCs, so any such race would be stand-alone, with the physical appearance of a given medium-sized race but only the traits of the undead race, period. Unfortunately, people playing small races are hosed by this...so I'm not fully sure what they'd intend to do about it. But...who knows, I guess. Regardless, I'm hoping AGAINST a feat chain or the like.
#5 celticmutt May 29, 2009 9:13:14	Hoping for the chain of feats. A revenant isn't something you're born into. It is something you become. And I can see the appeal in playing a PC that eventually becomes a revenant. You become it before first level, then it works as a race that you're "born" in to. ;)
#6 tipop May 29, 2009 9:59:39	How is an undead creature "born"? Are we going to be forced to imagine zombie sex? Zombie pregnancies?
#7 Seeker95 May 29, 2009 10:32:28	Are we going to be forced to imagine zombie sex? Zombie pregnancies? Resident Evil IV.
#8 zackblack May 29, 2009 13:44:28	How is an undead creature "born"? Are we going to be forced to imagine zombie sex? Zombie pregnancies? I'm not touching that one with a 10' holy symbol :D
#9 WerTwist May 29, 2009 16:46:48	How is an undead creature "born"? Are we going to be forced to imagine zombie sex? Zombie pregnancies? Watch the movie Braindead... it will answer all your Questions in this regard...
#10 celticmutt May 29, 2009 17:42:08	How is an undead creature "born"? Are we going to be forced to imagine zombie sex? Zombie pregnancies? Well, the act of becoming undead is "being born." Or reborn really.
#11 farmer42_dup May 29, 2009 18:07:28	How is an undead creature "born"? Are we going to be forced to imagine zombie sex? Zombie pregnancies? When a zombie mommy and a zombie daddy love each other a whole bunch... Show they eat the brains of their children, making them zombie children.
#12 Seeker95 May 29, 2009 18:22:55	Well, the act of becoming undead is "being born." Or reborn really. Not to be confused with being "born again" although I have met some who might easily blur the line between the two generally agreed upon concepts.
#13 lucifernietzsche May 29, 2009 18:29:54	How is an undead creature "born"? Are we going to be forced to imagine zombie sex? Zombie pregnancies? Dawn of the Dead...pregnant zombie chick secretly giving birth in the mall. shudders
#14 johnthedm7000 May 29, 2009 18:35:51	Personally, I'd prefer to see it as a feat chain. The first feat will symbolize "Alright, you're an undead creature come back to life to wreck unholy vengeance upon your foes." and then further feats will provide extra bonuses and power-swaps.
#15 Marandahir Jun 01, 2009 0:36:13	Well, you can enjoy your full-fleshed D&Di-only race later this month! Revenants will be a true, full race!
#16 Grazel Jun 01, 2009 0:54:05	Full race, DDi exclusive. They have ties to the Raven Queen so seem to be souls who don't pass on and come back. They hint at past lives meaning these might even be ones who KEEP coming back. There's no need for the usual 'born' mechanics in 4e races. We have Devas who are reincarnated 'mortal-bound' angels and the upcoming Wilden which seem to be spawned from the depths of the primal Feywild as adults, and the Warforged which are created/built rather than reproduce.
#17 Walstafa Jun 01, 2009 10:29:12	Full race, DDi exclusive. They have ties to the Raven Queen so seem to be souls who don't pass on and come back. See also: The Crow
#18 xenophile Jun 01, 2009 11:10:03	This is just what I wanted! I've always wanted an undead race (dhampirs don't count), but I was cautious to bring up the subject out of fear that people would equate them to the Forsaken of WoW. But now Wizards is going to make my dream come true! Also, "revenant" is a cool monster name that isn't used nearly enough.
#19 AvonRekaes Jun 01, 2009 11:31:28	From the way the article talks about them, how death opens up a new dimension for characters, and how it's only the beginning for the revenant, I'm wondering if you can switch to Revenant racial stats in the middle of a campaign. For example, you're a dwarf paladin and adventure into the paragon tier. Finally, you die in combat at the hands of a dragon or somesuch. Instead of the party ritual caster casting Raise Dead, they cast "Create Revenant", a ritual that brings you back as a revenant paladin. Maybe you keep the old race's ability and skill bonii, but replace everything else with the Revenant's abilities.
#20 Tharag_Bocc Jun 01, 2009 12:20:28	For example, you're a dwarf paladin and adventure into the paragon tier. Finally, you die in combat at the hands of a dragon or somesuch. Instead of the party ritual caster casting Raise Dead, they cast "Create Revenant", a ritual that brings you back as a revenant paladin. I doubt that such would be the "official" way that PCs become revenants. Though it makes for a reasonable enough house rule, and might get mentioned in a side bar as play-variant/roleplaying-hook. However, if I were to introduce such a variant, it would be as a one time only free resurrection (no ritual involved). The idea that the party's healer would intentionally revive a character as such a creature just doesn't jive well with me.
#21 AvonRekaes Jun 01, 2009 12:41:16	What about the party's arcanist? Rituals are rituals. I can see a wizard doing this. Also, Revenants seem to be blessed by the Raven Queen or something, so her clerics might be inclined to do so.
#22 SongSooGumbup Jun 01, 2009 12:47:44	I doubt that such would be the "official" way that PCs become revenants. Though it makes for a reasonable enough house rule, and might get mentioned in a side bar as play-variant/roleplaying-hook. However, if I were to introduce such a variant, it would be as a one time only free resurrection (no ritual involved). The idea that the party's healer would intentionally revive a character as such a creature just doesn't jive well with me. I see it as more of something the Raven Queen does instead of a party member doing. I think it might work if my current character dies. He is a warlord that worships the Raven Queen since his family was killed off. His hope is that his worship of the Raven Queen will allow him to be reunited with his family quickly after death. Because of this goal, I don't foresee him accepting a resurrection ritual if he dies. With the article on the Raven Queen that was released last month, I could see the Raven Queen saying, "nope, your debt isn't paid, you're going back as a revenant." I would roll up a new character and might even have a different class. The article says the revenants only have partial memories of their past lives, so the character would only know that he must serve the Raven Queen without fully understanding why. It would be fun to role play this confused slave with only fleeting images of a family he longs to be with occasionally popping into his mind. This would also explain how a new high level character could join the party after the last one died. (Looking back however, this has a bit of a Spawn feel to it)
#23 Tharag_Bocc Jun 01, 2009 13:23:19	What about the party's arcanist? Rituals are rituals. I can see a wizard doing this. I said "healer" without naming any class. To that extent whoever is casting the ritual is the group's "healer" within that instance. Why bring someone back as half-dead shadow of their former self, when it's just as easy to bring them back exactly as they were. Also, for me becoming a revenant should be something that just spontaneously happens, not some prerehearsed ritual. I see it as more of something the Raven Queen does instead of a party member doing. This. (Looking back however, this has a bit of a Spawn feel to it) Works for me.
#24 Nyronus Jun 01, 2009 13:52:42	(Looking back however, this has a bit of a Spawn feel to it) Curses, and I was just about to make a joke about a waraxe wielding infernal-pact Revenant Warlock.
#25 Zarithar Jun 02, 2009 9:29:14	Forsaken anyone?
#26 celticmutt Jun 02, 2009 10:36:10	Because WoW was the first one to have playable undead, amiright? Oh wait a minute ...
#27 Zarithar Jun 02, 2009 10:42:44	Because WoW was the first one to have playable undead, amiright? Oh wait a minute ... Never claimed that, but they do remind me conceptually of the Forsaken. Certainly revenants as described in the preview have more in common with the Forsaken race (lorewise) than with say White Wolf vampires or what have you. I am also one of those people who: 1. Doesn't dislike WoW 2. Doesn't dislike 4e 3. Doesn't find many similarities between the two games mechanically 4. Recognizes that Azeroth started off as a setting for a D&D campaign back before Orcs vs. Humans was released.
#28 ekio Jun 02, 2009 12:04:23	Constitution and Wisdom... come onnnn, Constitution and Wisdom. I wanna make a hybrid Avenger\|Shaman!
#29 sotp_seamus Jun 02, 2009 12:32:09	The Revanant was first seen in the First Fiend Folio. It was an undead that reanimated through sheer force of will, as opposed to any arcane or divine intervention. It was a creature bent on revenge, and the only way to stop it was for it to acheive its goal. The Crow is actually a very apt comparison, but the revenant came first I guess Uma Turman's character in 'Kill Bill' also qualifies on some weird level.
#30 Tharag_Bocc Jun 02, 2009 12:58:57	Constitution and Wisdom... come onnnn, Constitution and Wisdom. I wanna make a hybrid Avenger\|Shaman! Is there a problem with dwarf or wilden, or do you specificaly want an undead avenger\|shaman?
#31 ekio Jun 02, 2009 13:01:25	Is there a problem with dwarf or wilden, or do you specificaly want an undead avenger\|shaman? Specifically an undead one. I could just play a dwarf and flavor him undead (and no, I'm not much one for dhampyrs) but... I dunno. I just like the idea of a Revenant avenger who's been guided back to the world by the primal spirits. EDIT: Constitution and Intelligence seems more likely, but I dunno. I don't remember Revenants from 2/3e (if they were even there). My guesses amount to flailing my arms wildly.
#32 the_badger_02 Jun 02, 2009 13:20:33	I have to say, I'm excited. They look like they could be fun.
#33 aluman Jun 02, 2009 13:41:54	Never claimed that, but they do remind me conceptually of the Forsaken. Certainly revenants as described in the preview have more in common with the Forsaken race (lorewise) than with say White Wolf vampires or what have you. I am also one of those people who: 1. Doesn't dislike WoW 2. Doesn't dislike 4e 3. Doesn't find many similarities between the two games mechanically 4. Recognizes that Azeroth started off as a setting for a D&D campaign back before Orcs vs. Humans was released. Personally they sound like old 2E revanants more than anything...
#34 onemanhorde Jun 02, 2009 13:51:56	Is there a problem with dwarf or wilden, or do you specificaly want an undead avenger\|shaman? Not many people like beards or leaves.
#35 ekio Jun 02, 2009 13:53:13	Not many people like beards or leaves. I like beards just fine. >:\|
#36 arkady_v Jun 02, 2009 13:54:33	With the article on the Raven Queen that was released last month... I missed this, can someone point me to it?
#37 Tharag_Bocc Jun 02, 2009 14:22:36	Specifically an undead one. I could just play a dwarf and flavor him undead (and no, I'm not much one for dhampyrs) but... I dunno. I just like the idea of a Revenant avenger who's been guided back to the world by the primal spirits. That's cool. Though to me it seems a reflavored wilden would be a good choice for a lost soul returned to life by the primal spirits. Wilden are after all supposed to be something of an embodiment of nature.
#38 Crodocile Jun 02, 2009 14:43:59	That's cool. Though to me it seems a reflavored wilden would be a good choice for a lost soul returned to life by the primal spirits. Wilden are after all supposed to be something of an embodiment of nature. Swamp Thing?
#39 SongSooGumbup Jun 02, 2009 15:28:58	I missed this, can someone point me to it? It's from an excerpt for Divine Power from the "May and Beyond" preview. You can find it about half way down. If you're a fan of the Raven Queen, there is a good chance you won't like it.
#40 mendoukusai Jun 02, 2009 19:04:27	4. Recognizes that Azeroth started off as a setting for a D&D campaign back before Orcs vs. Humans was released. It was actually supposed to be a Warhammer game, but never got the license. That is why the name is so similar, as is the original premise.
#41 SavevsDeath Jun 02, 2009 20:00:17	Personally, I'd prefer to see it as a feat chain. The first feat will symbolize "Alright, you're an undead creature come back to life to wreck unholy vengeance upon your foes." and then further feats will provide extra bonuses and power-swaps. Nope, im betting its going to be a full-blown race. And im glad. I bet there will be a small and medium-sized options for it. Finally i can play an undead creature without having to only half-do it, or use up tons of feats for it. Undead Race + Vampire Heritage feats = full-fledged vampire. Win.
#42 SavevsDeath Jun 02, 2009 20:04:42	Never claimed that, but they do remind me conceptually of the Forsaken. Certainly revenants as described in the preview have more in common with the Forsaken race (lorewise) than with say White Wolf vampires or what have you. I am also one of those people who: 1. Doesn't dislike WoW 2. Doesn't dislike 4e 3. Doesn't find many similarities between the two games mechanically 4. Recognizes that Azeroth started off as a setting for a D&D campaign back before Orcs vs. Humans was released. They actually remind me of the Risen, from White Wolf's sub-game of Wraith: The Oblivion. WW Beat WOW to it. And also, why the inevitable 'Zomg wotc is copying WoW'? Seriously, do we all have special snowflake syndrome here? Some ideas are done a lot because theyre cool and fun.
#43 mendoukusai Jun 02, 2009 20:26:25	The only thing that really concerns me is WotC contradicting themselves by saying that the one deity related to death who supposedly abhors the abomination of undeath is suddenly now favoring a race of undead...how is that supposed to make any sense whatsoever?
#44 zeratulcraft Jun 02, 2009 20:55:45	The only thing that really concerns me is WotC contradicting themselves by saying that the one deity related to death who supposedly abhors the abomination of undeath is suddenly now favoring a race of undead...how is that supposed to make any sense whatsoever? The Crow wasn't so much an undead creature as much as he was a form of justice and retribution in human form.
#45 xi_mao Jun 02, 2009 20:59:03	Maybe they're not so much "undead" in her eyes as they are "Her Children". She picks corpses and animates them to do her bidding. I mean, being the goddess of death and the Shadowfell, you only have so much to work with. That or maybe she sees them like how many people view things like Taxes and Telephones, Necessary evils. (I for one don't like Telephones, but I mean, substitute anything else that you use all the time but loathe it's existence, like that printer from work that always jams or Automobiles.)
#46 Grazel Jun 02, 2009 21:11:18	From the blurb we got on them they're not risen corpses. They're undead in the sense that they're departed souls who've come back but that seems to be about it. They have a new body and only vague memories of their past life. They're a bit more like 'the dead' than 'the undead'. Also with the new fluff in Divine Power about the Raven Queen it seems they've altered her to be more one who wants to control the souls of the dead rather than make sure they pass on properly. That makes revenants not seem as at odds, also they are likely to be her loyal servants in life who she's given a 'new lease' to continue their work. Some of the lore in that blurb seems to contradict previous fluff we've seen on the Raven Queen but maybe the blurb is like most things religious: an interpretation and not literal fact (they did couch it as a 'creation myth' for the Raven Queen from what they showed).