Samurai similar to gladiators/assassins?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

ozymandiusj

May 13, 2009 3:50:27
In some cases, like the samurai, we're more excited about using an approach similar to the Dragon articles on gladiators and assassins.
#2

e105zeta

May 13, 2009 4:43:54
Samurai should be a path for Warlords, since Warlords fit Samurai a lot better than Warriors or or Paladins. In fact, the definition of a Samurai basically IS a Japanese warlord.
#3

karldark_dup

May 13, 2009 4:55:07
Samurai should be a path for Warlords, since Warlords fit Samurai a lot better than Warriors or or Paladins. In fact, the definition of a Samurai basically IS a Japanese warlord.

you're wrong.
Samurai is merely one's birthright. It is their station. Personally, i feel so long as you swinging a sword or yari or using a bow on horseback you're doing it right. Whether you a fighter, a warlord, a berserker, or paladin doesn't matter. Flavor does. Pick your class based on what your character does and how he feels and acts.

I’ve spent several hours searching for said articles and can’t find them. Any assistance would be appreciated.

They are referring to the articles for gladiators and and assassins. They haven't printed the article about samurai yet... Art of the Kill in Dragon Magazine 373 and The Gladiator in Dragon Magazine 368
#4

SongSooGumbup

May 13, 2009 14:01:48
assassins
gladiators

You will need a DDi subscription to access these articles. These articles are full of abilities and feats that you can take if you want to flavor your character as a gladiator or assassin. This means that these will not be standalone classes, but options for making many different classes fit the background. There is a sidebar in the assassins article about a "true assassin" that seems to use shadow based powers and could be hints to a future class. Some feel that this might be a ninja class (myself included). The interesting omission in the gladiator/assassin group is the necromancer, since there was a similar article about them. Anyway, I hope this helps
#5

Dragoncat

May 13, 2009 14:56:55
I like it.


It means I can have a bit of Archer Samurai for my ranger, or Iaijutsu master for my Avenger/Swordmage, or a bit of Armored Awesomeness for my Fighter or Warlord. Different styles and methods, but all getting to the samurai trope without forcing a particular line of class abilities as "the one true samurai", ala 3.5's two-blade-wielding-shouting-idiot. Looking forward to it.
#6

celloshane

May 13, 2009 16:07:41
I trust Wotc to put together enough options to satisfy someone wanting to reflavor thier class as a Samurai, but I do have one concern. Most references to Samurai that I'm familiar with attribute the group with abilities that would indicate a high Wisdom. Whether it's referenced as above average observation, an uncanny ability to interpret one's enemy, an unbreakable will, or simply being in tune with one's own body and surroundings the Samurai is known for emphasizing more than just strength and endurance. I don't see how a style article will include mechanics that encourage the use of Wis in builds. I just hope whatever comes out allows me to play a quiet, contemplative, cultured warrior-poet like I've read about, in addition to other interpretations of the culture.
#7

MatthiasKaiser

May 13, 2009 19:13:12
I trust Wotc to put together enough options to satisfy someone wanting to reflavor thier class as a Samurai, but I do have one concern. Most references to Samurai that I'm familiar with attribute the group with abilities that would indicate a high Wisdom. Whether it's referenced as above average observation, an uncanny ability to interpret one's enemy, an unbreakable will, or simply being in tune with one's own body and surroundings the Samurai is known for emphasizing more than just strength and endurance. I don't see how a style article will include mechanics that encourage the use of Wis in builds. I just hope whatever comes out allows me to play a quiet, contemplative, cultured warrior-poet like I've read about, in addition to other interpretations of the culture.

Wisdom is a very important stat for a number of classes and builds. Fighters and Rangers for example, two prime 'samurai' candidates, have several reasons to boost Wisdom. Plenty of mechanical reason to play the character you want.
#8

Mcnancy

May 13, 2009 20:17:36
I don't see how a style article will include mechanics that encourage the use of Wis in builds.

Well, some class builds already use Wis as a secondary or attack stat, I'm thinking this article will expand on some of them.

The Assassin and Gladiator articles had At-will augments that used off stats, like Con for Rogues and things like that.
#9

Grazel

May 13, 2009 23:20:28
Also the article talks about how they saw the Samurai as a MC class option for paladins which would mean a high wisdom.
#10

kage_no_neko

May 14, 2009 4:30:04
Yeah, but what if I want to play a ranging ronin who is loud and boisterous and based off a bard?

I can certainly see several of the Samurai abilities based off of Charisma (e.g. contest of wills), Intelligence (e.g. precision strike), Wisdom (obvious), Dexterity (e.g. parry), Strength (obvious), and Constitution (e.g. fortitude while defending your lord).

Limiting, or even just focusing, the Samurai powers to Wisdom does them a serious disservice and limits the players unnecessarily.
#11

volcanon2

May 14, 2009 4:49:52
Samurai is a social class. Noble would be the class for the post-17th century Samurai.

Before that, Fighter/Warlord.
The hollywood samurai would be a Fighter or Warlord.
#12

Tharag_Bocc

May 14, 2009 5:11:02
Samurai is a social class. Noble would be the class for the post-17th century Samurai.

  • Paladins were just the nights of Charlemagne.
  • Druids were just Celtic religious leaders.
  • Barbarians could mean any uncivilized peoples.


A name's historical origin use has little baring on it's role in modern fiction, even less so in the specific fiction that is D&D.

Warlords, fighter, and rangers all make good realistic warrior samurai. Paladin and Swordmage make interesting fantasy samurai of a certain style. There are however some common elements linking most fictional samurai together. Even if those elements are all just anime and/or Hollywood inspired nonsense they still represent a unique archetype all its own. Samurai at that point just becomes a convenient label for describing a class based on that archetype.

It's no different with any other class.

  • If I want to play a cleric of Melora and call my self a druid, fine.
  • If I want to play a fighter devoted to Bahamut and call my self a paladin, fine.
  • If I want to play a sorcerer who got his powers by making a pact with a fallen primordial and call myself a warlock, fine.
  • If I want to play a warlock whose powers come from his fey ancestry and call my self a sorcerer, fine.
#13

Grazel

May 14, 2009 5:39:59
  • Paladins were just the nights of Charlemagne.
  • Druids were just Celtic religious leaders.
  • Barbarians could mean any uncivilized peoples.


A name's historical origin use has little baring on it's role in modern fiction, even less so in the specific fiction that is D&D.

Warlords, fighter, and rangers all make good realistic warrior samurai. Paladin and Swordmage make interesting fantasy samurai of a certain style. There are however some common elements linking most fictional samurai together. Even if those elements are all just anime and/or Hollywood inspired nonsense they still represent a unique archetype all its own. Samurai at that point just becomes a convenient label for describing a class based on that archetype.

It's no different with any other class.

  • If I want to play a cleric of Melora and call my self a druid, fine.
  • If I want to play a fighter devoted to Bahamut and call my self a paladin, fine.
  • If I want to play a source who got his powers by making a pact with a fallen primordial and call myself a warlock, fine.
  • If I want to play a warlock whose powers come from his fey ancestry and call my self a sorcerer, fine.

But those elements don't make them truly distinctive, they're still other base classes just with a similar trapping to them. That's why samurai works better as a MC class like gladiators and assassins. It lets an archetype that spans different classes exist without running roughshod over those classes, role differences, and even power source differences.

Movie/anime samurai still cover classes like fighter, warlord, ranger, paladin, etc. What really makes them all samurai is their code of conduct, their dress, and the fact that they get called a samurai.
#14

Tharag_Bocc

May 14, 2009 5:51:00
Movie/anime samurai still cover classes like fighter, warlord, ranger, paladin, etc. What really makes them all samurai is their code of conduct, their dress, and the fact that they get called a samurai.

It's more than that. Saying that samurai is just a fighter with a code of honor is like saying that a paladin is just a fighter in service to a god.

Even if a class named samurai only encompassed one particular aspect of the samurai archetype, what would be the harm? For those that want a different archetype they can still choose a different class and call themselves a samurai.

When I say I want a samurai class I do not mean to suggest that samurai is so simple a concept that any one class could cover it all. I want a class that unifies those elements that are uniquely samurai. At that point it's just as well to label such a class with the name samurai.
#15

Mcnancy

May 14, 2009 10:37:19
It's more than that. Saying that samurai is just a fighter with a code of honor is like saying that a paladin is just a fighter in service to a god.

Even if a class named samurai only encompassed one particular aspect of the samurai archetype, what would be the harm? For those that want a different archetype they can still choose a different class and call themselves a samurai.

When I say I want a samurai class I do not mean to suggest that samurai is so simple a concept that any one class could cover it all. I want a class that unifies those elements that are uniquely samurai. At that point it's just as well to label such a class with the name samurai.

Well we may get a new class or two that helps fill in those gaps; there's a chance(though maybe a small chance) we're getting a Psionic warrior of some sort with Githyanki being a shoe in for PH3, the Ardent(I think Ardent is a fine name) would make a good class for Gish, Jedi and Samurai concepts. At this point we're much more likely to get Ardent than we are Samurai.