Reading through my CB just browsing about and was reading the githzerai class, and they say they favor the seeker class.
Anyone know a hint what this might be at all?
Several theories, really, but nothing definite. It'll be in the PH3.
It is my understanding that their job will be to grab something called a "Golden Snitch", which sounds like some kind of kobold to me.
You seek the seeker class?
Look at me.
Follow me.
Be as I am.
It is my understanding that their job will be to grab something called a "Golden Snitch", which sounds like some kind of kobold to me.
I thought the "Golden Snitch" was a pet name given to that one blonde-headed bandit that no one trusts secrets to? In that case, "Seeker" sounds like a Mafia-themed class....
It is my understanding that their job will be to grab something called a "Golden Snitch", which sounds like some kind of kobold to me.
I thought the "Golden Snitch" was a pet name given to that one blonde-headed bandit that no one trusts secrets to? In that case, "Seeker" sounds like a Mafia-themed class....
Nah, that's the Golden Rat
Current conjecture is that the Seeker isn't the fourth psionic class (after Psion, Monk, and Empath) because of developer comments that the Githzerai's best class for psionics stat-wise was the monk (implying that DEX or WIS won't be the primary stats for the other psionic classes). So either primal or divine seems like the best call.
Based off the name, the most logical niche for the Seeker to fill (in my opinion) might be either a primal, scout-like hunter (a Primal Striker more focused on stealth and/or ranged attacks than the tankish Barbarian), or a divine ranged class which is squishier than the Invoker turned out to be (either a Striker or Leader, depending on if archery is a primary or secondary trait of the class).
Current conjecture is that the Seeker isn't the fourth psionic class (after Psion, Monk, and Empath) because of developer comments that the Githzerai's best class for psionics stat-wise was the monk (implying that DEX or WIS won't be the primary stats for the other psionic classes). So either primal or divine seems like the best call.
Based off the name, the most logical niche for the Seeker to fill (in my opinion) might be either a primal, scout-like hunter (a Primal Striker more focused on stealth and/or ranged attacks than the tankish Barbarian), or a divine ranged class which is squishier than the Invoker turned out to be (either a Striker or Leader, depending on if archery is a primary or secondary trait of the class).
We already have been there Omni, and we're pretty sure it's not Primal.
Why would they put the Seeker in the list of favored classes for Githzerai and not the Druid?
If you look at Deva in PH2, you will see that Shaman is not listed as favored class and cleric is, yet Devas make better Shamans than they do Clerics; something to think about
Also, to think about, you will notice that Wilden only have three classes listed, and since the PH2 all races have had four classes list; I think this is because the fourth class is in the PH3 and so they hid it from us.
Eternal Seeker = ultimate multiclasser epic destiny.
PHB3 = hybrid rules for combination classes.
Seeker = ???
Result = Profit!
Eternal Seeker = ultimate multiclasser epic destiny.
PHB3 = hybrid rules for combination classes.
Seeker = ???
Result = Profit!
I love you.
check out the new calendar, specifically october
Seeker debuting just a few days before primal power... a clue. Probably the fifth primal class.
Seeker debuting just a few days before primal power... a clue. Probably the fifth primal class.
given the apparent association with the gith, i'm gonna say psychic
check out the new calendar, specifically october
Ooooooo... spiffy calendar is spiffy!
given the apparent association with the gith, i'm gonna say psychic
The other prefered classes for the gith used their boosted stats as the main class stats. The devs have said that, other than the monk, the gith doesnt have ability boosts that help it with any psionic classes' primary ability scores. This leads us to believe that the Seeker must necessarily be either primal or divine.
The other prefered classes for the gith used their boosted stats as the main class stats. The devs have said that, other than the monk, the gith doesnt have ability boosts that help it with any psionic classes' primary ability scores. This leads us to believe that the Seeker must necessarily be either primal or divine.
Ok, I am willing to accept that the Seeker might be Primal, only because races have only four classes on their favored class list since PH2, which would explain why the Druid is not on it.
But I am still leaning towards Divine because I'm not buying into that whole two weeks before Primal Power jive, and Seeker is a more religious term.
Edit: The new classes are most likely refugees from the Ki source. Monk is now Psionic, and we will only have 4 Psionic classes. Ninja was most likely turned into the Assassin so that's one more Ki class accounted for. Wu-jen Shugenja were said to have the other two. One of them I think was said to have become Elemental, so we won't be seeing that one in the PH3. so that just leaves one for either Primal or Divine in the PH2. and we are suspected to only get 6 classes, so who knows what the seeker is.
The other prefered classes for the gith used their boosted stats as the main class stats. The devs have said that, other than the monk, the gith doesnt have ability boosts that help it with any psionic classes' primary ability scores. This leads us to believe that the Seeker must necessarily be either primal or divine.
Ok, I am willing to accept that the Seeker might be Primal, only because races have only four classes on their favored class list since PH2, which would explain why the Druid is not on it.
But I am still leaning towards Divine because I'm not buying into that whole two weeks before Primal Power jive, and Seeker is a more religious term.
IMO, seeker is completely generic. It's not anymore divine sounding than it is primal, psionic, or arcane. I'm thinking it'll be a primal bow class, or a ranged magic divine class.
Obviously, one of the other classes in PHB3 will be the Confessor (probably psionic) and the Seeker will have an implement called The Sword of Tr....Ow.
I'm sort of betting on a primal ranged class myself.
Obviously, one of the other classes in PHB3 will be the Confessor (probably psionic) and the Seeker will have an implement called The Sword of Tr....Ow.
... what?
Anyway, for some reason, I have this 'feeling' that the Seeker will be a divine archer. I have no factual foundation for this opinion, I just have a weird feeling.
Obviously, one of the other classes in PHB3 will be the Confessor (probably psionic) and the Seeker will have an implement called The Sword of Tr....Ow.
... what?
Anyway, for some reason, I have this 'feeling' that the Seeker will be a divine archer. I have no factual foundation for this opinion, I just have a weird feeling.
that would be pretty sweet. i love the ranger, but some variety wouldn't hurt
I'm personally keen on the Divine archer idea people have been throwing around. I can't really get into the ranged bard, and I've never been terribly fond of non-beastmaster rangers, but I'd like to play a bow-wielding class at some point. =D
Obviously, one of the other classes in PHB3 will be the Confessor (probably psionic) and the Seeker will have an implement called The Sword of Tr....Ow.
... what?
"Obscure reference is obscure." Lol.
"Lord Rahl demands a negative arcane class..."
I'm personally keen on the Divine archer idea people have been throwing around. I can't really get into the ranged bard, and I've never been terribly fond of non-beastmaster rangers, but I'd like to play a bow-wielding class at some point. =D
I'm good with the archer ranger for shooty goodness, myself (never been a fan of animal sidekicks). Of course, there's a very good chance I'm very wrong. 
To try to make a better guess at what the Seeker is, one thing we could look at is what character niches are left which aren't already filled by an existing class.
Primal:
Savage hunter (Uses simple weapons like clubs or spears, or grows claws and fangs to attack enemies)
Primal archer (A primal-themed scout with ranged weapons, more like the original Ranger from earlier editions before he got moved to Martial)
Curse specialist (A caster/controller who specializes in transforming others rather than himself)
Divine:
"Squishy" healer (a healing/leader class with very light armor, possibly multiclassed with controller or striker. Could arguably be filled by putting a cleric or invoker in cloth armor, but isn't a perfect fit.)
Divine archer/inquisitor (May be a monster slayer, similar to a more ranged-focused version of the avenger, or a zen archer with mystical abilities.
Can anyone think of any other thematic niches which could be filled by a new class?
Just based on the name, it could be a Ki refugee leader. Like someone who seeks enlightenment. Like a budhist preacher.
Divine might be filled in by an Inquisitor/Archivist type class, even though the Avenger and Invoker do take some parts of this. The ascetic looking inward towards yourself concepts, seem to be mostly taken up by Psionic classes. And the problem is, there's already quite a room for variety among Divine classes, given the fact there's a bunch of different Gods and themes to use that can be applied to the existing 4.
Primal, I notice there's a lack of any class that's like a Witch or a Witch-Doctor. I guess hunter is also something that's missing from Primal classes.
Psionic is of course easy to guess as they are probably trying to fill all the roles first, before they feel any need to expand on it.
I'm also hoping for a divine archer type myself. I've nothing to base that off other than the name would fit very well.
*crosses fingers*
Here's my idea for the Seeker from the last thread, I put way too much thought into it
My idea for the Seeker is more like Indiana Jones but with a Divine twist; They're archivists who go searching for divine artifacts, lost lore, secret places and the greater truths they might hold, they arm themselves with the forgotten knowledge and sacred reliquary they've collected, they might know the blessings of an ancient god or even their curse. I could see one class build being more scholarly and bookish using truename lore and ancient scripture to fight, and the other build being more of a two fisted treasure hunter who uses sacred items, materials and the blessings placed upon them by random long lost gods. I'm thinking the Archivist would use Int(good match for Devas, ancient divine lore and all) and favor Implement attacks(tomes for sure), the Treasure Hunter would use Dex (thus good for Githzerai) and favor weapon attacks (multiclass with Monk to be a real two fisted treasure hunter), Leader makes the most sense because Invoker and Avenger already use those stats, and I see them starting with only cloth prof but with no big reason not to take leather prof."Ash from the temple ruins of Zaluul is known to ward off evil and heal the righteous, let's see if it works"
It's unique and interesting, It's a classic archetype and it stands out from other classes, and thats what I think is most important in a new class. Some pics:
I like the Idea of a Divine class that's not tied to morality; that's why I like the Idea of the Seeker being an adventuring archivist.More Seeker art
Ignore that it's an Illumian, but the sigils could be some Seeker power
Ignore the staff, I don't see staff as one of their implements, but I like the connection she has with the ruins
Using the truename lore they spend their lives looking for
Paragon Path ideas: Cursebearer: think Frodo and the ring, but with more than just invisibility; you stole or found some ancient divine place or thing that you shouldn't have, and now it's power haunts you and until you can find some way to get rid of it you might as well use it.
Truename Scholar: basically for Archivists who want to focus on truename lore.
Divine Delver: for Treasure Hunters, a Divine version of the old Dungeon Delver prestige class.
Scion of the Forgotten: you are the last prophet of a God long faded into history, because of you and your relentless searching their power still has an outlet and their teachings still have a voice
Temple Raider of Ioun: No secret is safe from you; knowledge can not be controlled nor hidden, not from you anyways
Bone Collector: You admire the saints of old more than anything, their faith and virtue is legendary, within their mummified remains still lingers great divine power, you seek to bring their righteous power to the enemies of good once again
After watching a few episodes of the new show Warehouse 13, it really makes me hope that Seekers are divine treasure hunters even more than before.
The show made me realize that Seekers wouldn't always be looking in tombs or temples, they might be looking for artifacts and lore that's missing or being abused.
I would make it a V class; Dex vs Int with Wis as the kicker, dex for the Treasure Hunter's weapon attacks for a more adventurer feel, and Int for the Archivist's Implement attacks to make them the most scholarly of Divine classes.
That way you could have more races like Tieflings, Halflings, Eladrin and Shadar-Kai make good Seekers too
I'm hoping for a primal ranged class with skirmish ability like 3.5e Scout from CA.
This may come to nothing, but I wanted to point out that the Seeker is coming out in October. The question is, is this significant or just how it ended up boiling down? The Archivist of 3E had a very horror feel to it (thus why it was in "Heroes of Horror"), so if the Seeker fills a similar story role then it would make sense to release it in October.
I'm not saying that I believe that, but there is certainly some evidence to suggest it. Anyways, I'm already a believer in the Seeker = Divine (Leader?), so that's easy for me to follow.
Sincerely,
Lord Dreadman
I'm all for the "Seeker of Divine Knowledge". I hadn't ever thought of a 4e Archivist before, but the mention of it does make me want to see an Archivist retrofitted for 4e, and I could easily see putting the active pursuit of knowledge into an Archivist turning him into a "Seeker".
I kinda like the "Indiana Jones with a Divine twist". I had my own thoughts for a divine Seeker, and Mcnancy's post more or less takes all of the ideas I've had an sums them up in a way that makes sense for 4e.
I'm not to attached to the idea of it being released in October because of Halloween, but there's no reason why they can't release the Seeker and then tie it to Halloween with adventure ideas and character concepts to give it some fire of it's own right off the block. (like, to entice people to test it out)
I mainly think it's divine because I don't believe the PHB3 was ever supposed to be "psionic, primal, and divine heroes", I think it was just supposed to be "psionic and ki heroes", but the ki classes got split up among psionic, divine, and primal.
That's just pure speculation on my part, but if you follow it through, then Seeker was a ki class. And if you think of a "Seeker" in the sense of asian/ki folklore, it's more likely to be something religious than primal.
That's just what I think...
I mainly think it's divine because I don't believe the PHB3 was ever supposed to be "psionic, primal, and divine heroes", I think it was just supposed to be "psionic and ki heroes", but the ki classes got split up among psionic, divine, and primal.
That's just pure speculation on my part, but if you follow it through, then Seeker was a ki class. And if you think of a "Seeker" in the sense of asian/ki folklore, it's more likely to be something religious than primal.
That's just what I think...
But In some ways the Primal power source is vary similar to many Asian beliefs, especially the Shinto faith if you equate Primal Spirits with Kami.
Well, to be honest with giving much thought it COULD be another shadow powersource class given that the assassin is coming into the CB next tuesday, and we only have one of that source so far. Seeker Might be the Shadowclass Defender/Controller who knows.
Dont think TOO deep into something cause most of the time, the answers are usually in front of ya if ya over think something.
Well, to be honest with giving much thought it COULD be another shadow powersource class given that the assassin is coming into the CB next tuesday, and we only have one of that source so far. Seeker Might be the Shadowclass Defender/Controller who knows.
Dont think TOO deep into something cause most of the time, the answers are usually in front of ya if ya over think something.
Actually, it can't be shadow. this is PH3 preview content, unlike the Assassin, which is DDI exclusive, and we know that PH3 is Psionic, Divine, and Primal heros.
as long as they don't do it in the style of the psion where it "redirects" you to the compendium for their powers :\ Thats a bunch of bullplop.
also, that would be nice if it was the 4e archivist. I always did find that class rather unique.
Now we just need a favored soul, which I don't think the avenger is quite like that.
as long as they don't do it in the style of the psion where it "redirects" you to the compendium for their powers :\ Thats a bunch of bullplop.
also, that would be nice if it was the 4e archivist. I always did find that class rather unique.
Now we just need a favored soul, which I don't think the avenger is quite like that.
Favored Soul? Good lords, why? What is the purpose of that class? I've never seen it portrayed much differently than "Cleric + Sword" up in close combat. I could see the concept of being a favored individual working as a paragon path open to all Divine characters, or better yet, an epic destiny, but a whole class?
as long as they don't do it in the style of the psion where it "redirects" you to the compendium for their powers :\ Thats a bunch of bullplop.
also, that would be nice if it was the 4e archivist. I always did find that class rather unique.
Now we just need a favored soul, which I don't think the avenger is quite like that.
Favored Soul? Good lords, why? What is the purpose of that class? I've never seen it portrayed much differently than "Cleric + Sword" up in close combat. I could see the concept of being a favored individual working as a paragon path open to all Divine characters, or better yet, an epic destiny, but a whole class?
I thought they already added the Favored Soul to 4E as a PP (in Divine Power?).
I thought they already added the Favored Soul to 4E as a PP (in Divine Power?).
I was going to say I don't know, since I don't have the Power books yet, but then I looked it up in the Compendium. Yes, they did (an Avenger PP). Personally, I'd like to see such a status (favored by the god) applied to all divine classes in some form or another, but I'm glad it's not a class, at least.
Here's my guess. Since the the refugees of the Ki power source are coming in hard and fast, I think the Seeker was originally the Ki leader. He's going to be a cloth wearing zen buddhist type, I imagine. With the Ki source being dismantled, I think he's going to be tossed into the Divine power source.
I can imagine either a more abstract Seeker type with radiant goodness. The flavor of this would probably be a more generalist approach to the D&D theology and a seeker to enlightenment through... something.
But, my gut tells me its going to be a Dex/Wis class. I can see a cool up-in-front leader (with the new implement fu manchu) landing a blow on an enemy, shattering his defenses for a split second, enough time to guide a ally's strike into a more sensitive area.
Either way. Formerly the Ki leader. Divine leader. "Seeking enlightment" flavor. I dunno how it'll fight.
Here's my guess. Since the the refugees of the Ki power source are coming in hard and fast, I think the Seeker was originally the Ki leader. He's going to be a cloth wearing zen buddhist type, I imagine. With the Ki source being dismantled, I think he's going to be tossed into the Divine power source.
I don't think every non-psionic class is going to be a 'ki-refugee'.
Here's my guess. Since the the refugees of the Ki power source are coming in hard and fast, I think the Seeker was originally the Ki leader. He's going to be a cloth wearing zen buddhist type, I imagine. With the Ki source being dismantled, I think he's going to be tossed into the Divine power source.
I don't think every non-psionic class is going to be a 'ki-refugee'.
Probably not, no.
Here's my guess. Since the the refugees of the Ki power source are coming in hard and fast, I think the Seeker was originally the Ki leader. He's going to be a cloth wearing zen buddhist type, I imagine. With the Ki source being dismantled, I think he's going to be tossed into the Divine power source.
I can imagine either a more abstract Seeker type with radiant goodness. The flavor of this would probably be a more generalist approach to the D&D theology and a seeker to enlightenment through... something.
But, my gut tells me its going to be a Dex/Wis class. I can see a cool up-in-front leader (with the new implement fu manchu) landing a blow on an enemy, shattering his defenses for a split second, enough time to guide a ally's strike into a more sensitive area.
Either way. Formerly the Ki leader. Divine leader. "Seeking enlightment" flavor. I dunno how it'll fight.
Does the Monk really count as the "Ki power source are coming in hard and fast"? As far as I'm able to tell that's one class.
I'm guessing the Assassin might be included in the equation, since some of its flavor (with Ki Focuses and all that) suggests it might have once been a Ki class, or at least incorporated elements of a formerly seperate Ninja class.
I'm also considering the possibility of a "mystic monk" class, whether it's the Seeker or another class (the Mystic?). This class may have absorbed some of the abilities of the former Shugenja class (the rest of it, along with the Wu Jen, being reserved for the elemental power source). Perhaps this class will also have a ranged component, incorporating the idea of the "zen archer" into its build.
I'm guessing the Assassin might be included in the equation, since some of its flavor (with Ki Focuses and all that) suggests it might have once been a Ki class, or at least incorporated elements of a formerly seperate Ninja class.
I'm also considering the possibility of a "mystic monk" class, whether it's the Seeker or another class (the Mystic?). This class may have absorbed some of the abilities of the former Shugenja class (the rest of it, along with the Wu Jen, being reserved for the elemental power source). Perhaps this class will also have a ranged component, incorporating the idea of the "zen archer" into its build.
If nothing else, we could certainly use a good ranged-weapon Divine class. Come to think of it, we're in short supply of ranged weapon classes period.
A ranged divine class, yes.
A divine monk, that's the Avenger.
Ranged attackers (aka Artillery) can split into 'Snipers' and 'Sweepers'. Sweepers deal normal damage to multiple ranged targets, and synergize well with the Controller role. Think Fireball. Meanwhile, Snipers deal heavy damage to a single ranged target, and synergize well with the Ranged-Striker role. The different tactics behave differently on the battlemat, yielding different flavors.
Emphasizing the difference, promotes different kinds of Ranged builds, and more of them.
A ranged divine class, yes.
Well, we have laser clerics and invokers, but they're pretty short ranged.
We desperatly need a new archer class. Two weapon ranger steals arhcer ranger's thunder, and a lot of people would rather be a beast master too. clerics and invokers, along with warlocks, wizards, and other controllers are all implement based, giving a caster instead of archer feel. And, aside from euphonic(sp?) bow, bard and artificer ranged attacks are better as heavy thrown (or even light thrown like the rouge) weapons so you can switch between powers. the same can be said for a third of the ranged-ranger builds too now that i think about it.
I'd rather see a divine archer, just for the novelty, though they could probably do a good primal one.
otherwise, (mcnancy was it?) that archivist theory was frickin awesome, and would definitly be good.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. I would love a bow-wielding divine defender.
Thematically, it has support in the Shinto archery, in purification, cleansing, and the use of barriers and wards. Mechanically, however, methinks it would be amazing.
As discussed on the forums, a defender is much like a pinpoint controller, concentrating on locking down a very small space through marking, catch-22 threats, physical presence, and brutal punishment. But as the swordmage has proven, the defender can mark things at a range and still fulfill his role, although the blade-bearing blaster still relies on close up, melee attacks.
I'd love to see a defender who went the whole ten foot pole and managed to use shielding techniques completely at a range. Mark a target or a small area within view, be able to halt opponents as long as they are trying to approach, and be able to defend a far off target, aka strikers like the avenger, despite the physical distance. With secondaries in controller or leader, the divine archer could create wards, barriers, walls, and exorcisms to repel opponents, or purge conditions and cleanse the wounds of allies within her line of fire. Someone who doesn't guard with her physical presence, and is in fact relying on the enemy not getting nearby, yet can protect her comrades across the board with heavenly grace and divine fury.
As long as we are still treading the divine ground (the divine source has been in all three PHBs so far), methinks the classes need to be thematically and mechanically awesome. I'm hoping they are innovative, amazing, and downright nifty, because they had better be worth pushing back the shadow classes another year.
Hmm...
There's a argument about different ways of doing defenders than marking, and some people have to have explained to them the futility of a "bodyguard" mark that only works on one ally.
But... what if the seeker could "guard" all the targets in a zone? IT would walk the line of a controller, but being able to punish the first creature to attack somone in your warded zone would be... interesting, perhaps.
Entirely baseless speculation: The article today on the Raven Queen did not provide any new prayers for the Seeker class. Since it comes out this month, it would make sense to provide some more prayers in such an article if it was a divine class. Therefore, the Seeker must be psionic or primal.
To refute the baseless speculation:
No way would they spoil details of a class that hasn't been previewed yet in an article like that (especially if it was written by a freelancer who wouldn't know anything). Arcane power included nothing for Artificers just a month behind their release, even though half the class had already been previewed.
I agree that a lack of Seeker Prayers in today's article doesn't really prove anything.
I guess we'll find out in a few short hours ... okay, a lot of short hours. *groan*
Lord Dreadman
I agree that a lack of Seeker Prayers in today's article doesn't really prove anything.
I guess we'll find out in a few short hours ... okay, a lot of short hours. *groan*
Lord Dreadman
should be up in 8 hours, i hope the CB update will have them too.
Unlike articles, CB updates are rarely up before afternoon to mid-afternoon. 
Why are you guys still speculating? Its right here. Its a divine controller who uses archery.
Why are you guys still speculating? Its right here. Its a divine controller who uses archery.
And now I know what I want my next character to be!
Divine archery controller.... bleh. :P
Divine Controller Archer. Sounds cool.
(I love the Genasi Orb Wizard on the magazine cover. Awesome art!)
Okay, so I hit the nail on the head with calling Divine, but I missed slightly to the right by guessing Leader.
Good enough for me!
Lord Dreadman
Okay, so I hit the nail on the head with calling Divine, but I missed slightly to the right by guessing Leader.
Good enough for me!
Lord Dreadman
Having a 1 in 3 chance (or even 1 in 2 depending on whether or not you rules out Psionics) of guessing right isn't particularly impressive to me
But I am glad to see an interesting controller build. We've had Wizards and Invokers whom use implements at range, a melee druid controller and now a ranged archer controller. It should play differently and hopefully be an intriguing class 
Those who guessed right about being a Divine *Archer* ... impressive odds!
I suppose the Seeker is one of the 'Ki refugees', inspired by the Zen Buddhist archer, that translated into the Divine power source.
I'll guess (like others admittedly) that it's inspired by the Archery using Priestesses of Asian folklore (Mikos) and is a Ki Refugee class. I'm looking forward to it.
Jinx!
Okay, so I hit the nail on the head with calling Divine, but I missed slightly to the right by guessing Leader.
Good enough for me!
Lord Dreadman
Having a 1 in 3 chance (or even 1 in 2 depending on whether or not you rules out Psionics) of guessing right isn't particularly impressive to meBut I am glad to see an interesting controller build. We've had Wizards and Invokers whom use implements at range, a melee druid controller and now a ranged archer controller. It should play differently and hopefully be an intriguing class
Way to rain on my parade, man. ;)
I'm still gonna brag that I guessed it, though. I mean, why not? It's not as if we have anything else to be proud of as subscribers ...
Lord Dreadman
Hmm... Seeker = Ammunition based controller.
Magic amunition can be crafted up to 3 levels above character level with the right artificer feat
????
Profit!
it's not automatically a controller..... just because it says controll the battlefield...
leaders do that exact same thing :p I think it's a divine leader! Something OTHER than cleric, i would welcome that with open arms because unless the arrows explode or something I don't see them being controllery still
Archer with Divine powers?
Seeker....of the sacred jewel?
Someone at Wizards is an Inuyasha fan..
Kagome much?
Archer with Divine powers?
Seeker....of the sacred jewel?
Someone at Wizards is an Inuyasha fan..
Kagome much?
"Really now? That was a joke right? It's kinda sad that I honestly can't tell if that was serious or not... Now, I like anime as much as the next guy, and it's really people like this that make anime lovers look bad. No, Inuyasha did not innovate the divine archer."
So, I know I'm just being impatient, but has anyone else noticed that articles are coming out later (in the day) nowadays? Does anyone know how much later it's become, because it used to be 10 o'clock Mountain Time just like clockwork, but, obviously, it's not out yet.
Anyways, just to be clear, I'm not upset that it's not out yet, I just want to know if anyone knows what time content is being released nowadays. Has it just been pushed back a couple hours, or will it be tomorrow morning? Any insight would be sweet!
Thanks!
Lord Dreadman
"Really now? That was a joke right? It's kinda sad that I honestly can't tell if that was serious or not... Now, I like anime as much as the next guy, and it's really people like this that make anime lovers look bad. No, Inuyasha did not innovate the divine archer."
What's with the quotation marks, did somebody say that or...what?
Oh, are you, "in character", I see...
But, no, it was mostly a joke, though others have made the same assumptions. I can see someone if being an elitist and jumping on the bandwagon of hating Inuyasha. I'm very well aware that the idea of the Miko (or priestess or shrine maiden or divine archer, whatever the dubbers want to call them) didn't originate from Rumiko Takahashi's (almost) never ending story. But, right now it IS the most popular and current thread to trace it to, so forgive me for going with something more well known for the sake of a joking comment than going into a storied detail of the history of the Miko and alienate everyone because, really, it's a DnD board, no one really cares how precise I am unless they're nitpicking.
That said. I like the idea of an Archer Controller. I wish they had made the archer Ranger a controller instead, actually, but this is fine and I'm ery looking forward to hearing about the class.
As I said earlier in the day, PH3 Previews do not come out until the CB update does, and that does not happen until afternoon or later. It has been that way for the past 3 months.
Though if every other article is going to start being delayed until afternoon as well, that will be a little annoying.
Just because they use the word "control" in the class description doesn't necessarily means it's a controller. After all a fighter strikes down enemies in close combat.
Just because they use the word "control" in the class description doesn't necessarily means it's a controller. After all a fighter strikes down enemies in close combat.
lol i just said that on page 7... i think it's a leader.
"Divine Archer" seemed like a logical prediction, since it was a niche that none of the other divine classes really filled. As others have speculated, this may very well be a former Ki class which was adapted into a Divine class. I'd say it's got an equal shot at being either a Leader or a Controller, and might have one of these as a secondary, if not primary role.
Since the article itself doesn't seem to be up, here's a few final predictions for stat arrays and such.
DEX and WIS are pretty easy to predict, since the Seeker was first mentioned in the Githzerai article. I'm guessing the most logical choice for the third score is Charisma, with Wisdom as the primary (representing wisdom-based Zen Archery).
It will remain to be seen whether the Seeker article will contain any further clues toward the remaining content of PHB3 (such as the identity of the fourth player race or whether it will be the only divine class in the book).
I can't believe I was actually right.
I can't believe I was actually right.
Hm? I can't see it yet! Please provide URL if you can!!
EDIT: Nevermind
I want Charisma as secondary stat! This is a good example of Seeker. This hottie is from "Muramasa: the Demon Blade" game. I think she is riding an undead horse.
I want Charisma as secondary stat! This is a good example of Seeker. This hottie is from "Muramasa: the Demon Blade" game. I think she is riding an undead horse.
Is it named Martial Controller?
When I think of a Ranged Weapon user with Divine powers, I tend to think of this guy...
I want Charisma as secondary stat! This is a good example of Seeker. This hottie is from "Muramasa: the Demon Blade" game. I think she is riding an undead horse.
Is it named Martial Controller?
Good usage of Undead Horse Trope. Perfect.
I am infinitely glad it's a Divine Archer. Now we have Martial Striker Archers, Arcane Leader Archers, and Divine Controller Archers. Next we need a Primal Defender Archer - either a Warden build, or a new class!
Well, we don't because we're not completing the wheel. But a Defender Archer would be cool too. I'm just happy the Seeker is, in fact, a Divine Archer.
Considering the CB says its servers are down for updates, it should be up soon.
And I'm downloading the Update now... Will edit this post when it comes out.
So the seeker is a Ranged Primal Contoler. For people still waiting for the character builder to update you can check out the class in the compendium!
Wow ... Primal ....
Surprising, to say the least. Wierd name for a primal character, but we live in strange times too ....
Lord Dreadman
HA! I called it!
"Mystical connection to the divine..."
Oh yeah, that sure sounds primal to me :P
Way to throw us off in your description, Wizards...
Where's that quote from? I can't see anything about a mystical connection to the divine.
The class quote is "I am the lightning strike, the earth's upheaval, the unruly sea, I am the bringer of your destruction"
Where's that quote from? I can't see anything about a mystical connection to the divine.
The class quote is "I am the lightning strike, the earth's upheaval, the unruly sea, I am the bringer of your destruction"
here: www.wizards.com/dnd/TOC.aspx?x=dnd/4new/...
Where's that quote from? I can't see anything about a mystical connection to the divine.
The class quote is "I am the lightning strike, the earth's upheaval, the unruly sea, I am the bringer of your destruction"
here: www.wizards.com/dnd/TOC.aspx?x=dnd/4new/...
Divine in this case could mean flavorwise primal spirits. or just a way to throw us off the trail.
Ah, I see. Those sneaky Wizards.
o.o where is the link for us non-subscribers? I mean I don't mean to actually see the whole class! But even for non subscribers we can still get a little picture, a flavor sentence and then it will give the whole "see the whole thing if you subscribe" shtick
o.o where is the link for us non-subscribers? I mean I don't mean to actually see the whole class! But even for non subscribers we can still get a little picture, a flavor sentence and then it will give the whole "see the whole thing if you subscribe" shtick
its not a subscriber vs non subscriber thing. the article is not up yet. we are getting the information out of the compendium.
o.o where is the link for us non-subscribers? I mean I don't mean to actually see the whole class! But even for non subscribers we can still get a little picture, a flavor sentence and then it will give the whole "see the whole thing if you subscribe" shtick
The class isn't up yet that I can see, but the class description and powers can be found by searching in the compendium. Which doesn't really help non-subscribers.
I'm actually really disapointed. Primal Archer is so easy. Divine Archer woulda been more unique. And then to go so far as to get our hopes up like that.... I don't appreciate it. I'm a bit pissed to be honest.
I like the idea of thrown-weapon seekers, making up a boomerang like Austronesian type hunter.
However, I'm slightly dissappointed it's not Divine. But it's Primal, so it still works as a Shinto Priest, which kind of stradles the barrier. I've just seen them more as Divine, because Mikos exorcising evil spirits with bows are a character concept I'd like to see.
We could still see a Holy Exorcist amongst the new Divine Classes though.
I'm pretty far from "a bit pissd". This is 13-YEARS-OLD-BOY-DOING-HOMEBREW-CLASS-QUALITY
I am pleasantly surprised.
And thoroughly impressed...
I'm pretty far from "a bit pissd". This is 13-YEARS-OLD-BOY-DOING-HOMEBREW-CLASS-QUALITY
Could you explain why? I don't see much problem with it other than "it's not a Divine Bow user." I sort of think that it overlaps a bit too much with the Archer Ranger, who is a martial being that exists amongst the wild, and another bow class could have been in another aspect of society, like a faith, but it fits, and it has pretty original ideas.
Shooting fungal blooms that then attack afterwards? Heck Yeah.
EDIT: It's a controller who usually deals Weapon Damage. And has Mid-range Hit Points (Most Leaders, Most Strikers, Druid, Seeker). This is interesting to me.
I'm pretty far from "a bit pissd". This is 13-YEARS-OLD-BOY-DOING-HOMEBREW-CLASS-QUALITY
Well, I don't think that's quite fair. Although I haven't had a chance to read it yet, the concept sounds reasonably interesting.
It wasn't what I was hoping for either, though, so this got moved from "must read it over lunch break" to "check it out after work tonight...if I have time."
I admit being a little dissapointed that it's not divine (especially after the misleading blurb in the Dragon contents
) but all that aside...
I love it! I really do. Thank you Wizards!
Hmm. A Primal ranged weapons user. Where have I heard that one before?
Jim Winks!
I admit being a little dissapointed that it's not divine (especially after the misleading blurb in the Dragon contents) but all that aside...
I love it! I really do. Thank you Wizards!
I agree 100%
Yes a divine archer would have been original but this is still an exellent class and a very welcome addition to my game.
Anyone then mind telling us non-subs what the deal is? Primarys stats? Secondary? Implements if any? That kind of stuff?
Because if it's a "bow" wielding class ONLY, us small characters REALLY get screwed over :p
Anyone then mind telling us non-subs what the deal is? Primarys stats? Secondary? Implements if any? That kind of stuff?
Because if it's a "bow" wielding class ONLY, us small characters REALLY get screwed over :p
Wis Primary, Str/Dex Secondary, with the Dex build in the preview.
No implements, actually, and you can use it with any kind of ranged weapon, so thrown, bows and crossbows all work. They have leader-level HP and that stuff, like a Druid. Simple Melee and Ranged Prof, as well as Mili Ranged; Up to Leather Prof. Really sick at-wills so far.
Helpful?
Anyone then mind telling us non-subs what the deal is? Primarys stats? Secondary? Implements if any? That kind of stuff?
Because if it's a "bow" wielding class ONLY, us small characters REALLY get screwed over :p
Stats are WIS Primary, STR/DEX Secondary. The class is prof with simple and military ranged and simple melee but is not an implement user. Small chars should be fine using x-bows etc.
To me this is the spellcasting ranger from prior editions reconceptualized as a primal controller.
It seems 4th edition has taken the 3rd edition ranger and split it into the ranger and the seeker. I wouldn't be surprised to see a seeker build with its own animal companion style (or feats to encourage ranger/seeker hybrids)
To me this is the spellcasting ranger from prior editions reconceptualized as a primal controller.
It seems 4th edition has taken the 3rd edition ranger and split it into the ranger and the seeker. I wouldn't be surprised to see a seeker build with its own animal companion style (or feats to encourage ranger/seeker hybrids)
They also did this with the 3x Druid so I'm not realy suprised.
That's actually a very good way of putting it.
Noteably however, the Ranger used Druid spells, while the Seeker has it's own evocations. Still awesome and made of win.
I like to think of it now as the Evoker Ranger; as well as the Hunter who's more attuned to the wilderness than to civilisation (more of a Preservationist than a Conservationist).
I've got to get running to a class, so I didn't have much time to check out too much of the class via Compendium, but my initial reaction is that it is effing sweet, and I know what my next character is.
Anyone then mind telling us non-subs what the deal is? Primarys stats? Secondary? Implements if any? That kind of stuff?
Because if it's a "bow" wielding class ONLY, us small characters REALLY get screwed over :p
Stats are WIS Primary, STR/DEX Secondary. The class is prof with simple and military ranged and simple melee but is not an implement user. Small chars should be fine using x-bows etc.
Thats nice but guess what...
SMALL CHARACTERS CAN'T USE X-BOWS O_O 2-HANDED! DUH! besides the hand crossbow, thats it.
I made a thread about that problem quite some time ago and it got into a lot of debate.
So most we can get is the d8 shortbow. We are SEVERELY limited.
Could someone tell me what the premise of their attacks is? I heard something about shooting fungal blooms that attack people or something like that. Because i'm finding it hard seeing an arrow shooter being a controller unless their arrows go BOOM with fire o_o
Could someone tell me what the premise of their attacks is? I heard something about shooting fungal blooms that attack people or something like that. Because i'm finding it hard seeing an arrow shooter being a controller unless their arrows go BOOM with fire o_o
Erm, you've hit the nail on the head. A lot of their powers involve "hit enemy A, effect on enemy A and enemies around it."
Anyone then mind telling us non-subs what the deal is? Primarys stats? Secondary? Implements if any? That kind of stuff?
Because if it's a "bow" wielding class ONLY, us small characters REALLY get screwed over :p
Stats are WIS Primary, STR/DEX Secondary. The class is prof with simple and military ranged and simple melee but is not an implement user. Small chars should be fine using x-bows etc.
Thats nice but guess what...SMALL CHARACTERS CAN'T USE X-BOWS O_O 2-HANDED! DUH! besides the hand crossbow, thats it.
I made a thread about that problem quite some time ago and it got into a lot of debate.
So most we can get is the d8 shortbow. We are SEVERELY limited.
Could someone tell me what the premise of their attacks is? I heard something about shooting fungal blooms that attack people or something like that. Because i'm finding it hard seeing an arrow shooter being a controller unless their arrows go BOOM with fire o_o
There is more weapons then just the Cross Bows and Longbows. You can use daggers, Shrurikin, Drow Long Knives, That boomerang thing... you are not limited by not using a bow.
Alot of their attacks are controllerish, such as hitting and the target and each adjacent enemy taking a -2 to their attacks or even an atwil that you can choose the damage type at will.
Anyone then mind telling us non-subs what the deal is? Primarys stats? Secondary? Implements if any? That kind of stuff?
Because if it's a "bow" wielding class ONLY, us small characters REALLY get screwed over :p
Stats are WIS Primary, STR/DEX Secondary. The class is prof with simple and military ranged and simple melee but is not an implement user. Small chars should be fine using x-bows etc.
Thats nice but guess what...SMALL CHARACTERS CAN'T USE X-BOWS O_O 2-HANDED! DUH! besides the hand crossbow, thats it.
I made a thread about that problem quite some time ago and it got into a lot of debate.
So most we can get is the d8 shortbow. We are SEVERELY limited.
Could someone tell me what the premise of their attacks is? I heard something about shooting fungal blooms that attack people or something like that. Because i'm finding it hard seeing an arrow shooter being a controller unless their arrows go BOOM with fire o_o
Alot of thier attacks are against a single target but then do damage to or inflict a status effect on enemies adjacent to or sometimes within so many squares of the target. Others create zones or produce conjurations (like the fungal blooms) near the target. I saw at least one AoE power that seems to be the arrow splintering into shards.
I love the flavor of this class. A Primal Archer is a necessary concept to fill out, and making it a Controller is interesting.
I greatly appreciate how (finally) flavor agrees with mechanics. Its the archetypical Elf class, venerating nature spirits, using Wis and Dex - wielding magic and bows.
Some of their unique effects include:
"Fungal Bloom" the attack creates "land mines" that you can denonate using your opportunity action when an enemy steps on them. There is at least one other power with this mechanic.
An attack that ties two monsters together so they can only move to spaces adjacent to each other until they save.
Various powers that count as a "ranged basic attack" and various boosts specific to ranged basic attacks.
I love the flavor of this class. A Primal Archer is a necessary concept to fill out, and making it a Controller is interesting.
I greatly appreciate how (finally) flavor agrees with mechanics. Its the archetypical Elf class, venerating nature spirits, using Wis and Dex - wielding magic and bows.
Elves fit well but the Bladeling and the Shifters fit it as well and seem much more primal. Heck Dwarves and Wilden will fit well as well.
;) Itd be nice if having a 'Ranged Basic Attack' actually mattered.
Itd be nice if having a 'Ranged Basic Attack' actually mattered.
It is when your class power lets you "Make a ranged basic attack against a target within 5 squares of a missed target"
Mith: Elves fit well but the Bladeling and the Shifters fit it as well and seem much more primal. Heck Dwarves and Wilden will fit well as well.
Yeah. Thats what makes the flavor-mechanics match professional. The Seeker perfectly expresses Elf flavor, without suffocating other race choices.
Similarly, Im glad the class also empowers thrown weapons, in addition to bows, so players can use this class for a wider variety of character concepts.
Herro: It is when your class power lets you "Make a ranged basic attack against a target within 5 squares of a missed target"
Only once per encounter, only on a miss so no heavy damage, and only on a different target so no confirmed kills. But its a good start. I hope we see more ways for a character to use ems own Ranged Basic Attacks like this. For other classes to use their own too.
The more I play with the Seeker in the CB the more I like it. This leads me to ask a question.
Have WotC made the Bow Ranger obsolete?
I have to admit the Ranger has ALWAYS been one of my least favourite classes, and I know that it is a DPR animal but the Seeker seems to do reasonable damage with it's encounters and dailies as well as having decent battlefield control. At the moment this class just seems to have more going for it.
What does everyone else think?
;) Itd be nice if having a 'Ranged Basic Attack' actually mattered.
Seeker has a class feature encounter power (that recharges when you spend an action point) that triggers on a miss and allows you to make a ranged basic attack against a target within five squares. So if you're playing a Seeker having a ranged basic attack does matter.
EDIT: Didn't notice there was another page. Doh!
Geez, when will the PDF be up and running?
When *Melee* Basic Attacks happen many times per encounter, the need to spend an Action Point to make a Ranged Basic Attack happen doesnt impress me.
This is a difficulty with the RBA mechanic itself.
The Seeker class itself seems fine.
Geez, when will the PDF be up and running?
Good question. 
Herro: It is when your class power lets you "Make a ranged basic attack against a target within 5 squares of a missed target"
Only once per encounter, only on a miss so no heavy damage, and only on a different target so no confirmed kills. But its a good start. I hope we see more ways for a character to use ems own Ranged Basic Attacks like this. For other classes to use their own too.
Bard Encounter 1 Thunder's calling (lets another PC make a ranged basic attack)
Ranger encounter 1 Foxes Cunning (Good for a MC or Hybrid)
Ranger Daily Stance 5 Spitting cobra stance (MC or Hybrid)
Warlord Daily 9 Stay on target (AWESOME!)
There are alot of powers and abilities that key off of RBA this is only a small sampling, Granted they are fewer and further inbetween then the MBA but they still exist.
When *Melee* Basic Attacks happen many times per encounter, the need to spend an Action Point to make a Ranged Basic Attack happen doesnt impress me.
This is a difficulty with the RBA mechanic itself.
The Seeker class itself seems fine.
Need to spend an action point? Where are you getting this?
Need to spend an action point? Where are you getting this?
He is referring to the ability to regain the use of the Encounter power by spending an Action Point.
Powers that let *someone else* use *ems* Ranged Basic Attack dont impress me.
Powers that let *someone else* use *ems* Ranged Basic Attack dont impress me.
Well that basically tells me you would not like playing a Leader class or i might dare say teamwork might not be your forte.
Need to spend an action point? Where are you getting this?
He is referring to the ability to regain the use of the Encounter power by spending an Action Point.
Ah, personally im happy for already built in recharges rather then the feats for bloodied recharges.
One of the paragon paths allows you to swap melee basic OA into non OA triggering Ranged basic attacks. plus they boost it by giving crit range, etc. And there are feats to upgrade that once per encounter free ranged basic, by giving two targets or regaining it on a miss.
And While I'm pissed at the misleading, and pissed that it's primal instead of divine, I do really like the class. I second the theory that this is the other half of the ranger (similar names, mechanics/fluff matches, etc.) Here's my theory on WHY a archer primal controller:
The Druid (the original primal controller) departs from controller norm by having several builds focus on, and all exploit, Melee controling. Thus, in the intrest of providing a new concept, they decided to give primal the other side of the coin as well: ranged weapon controlling. (as opposed to ranged casting like everyone else).
This class seems like a really fun class to hybrid and multiclass with. Take a githzerai with githzerai blade master and a paragon multi into a melee class and have a ball. Hell hybrid with ranger to get your 3e ranger everyone seems to miss so much.
The biggest benefit I see here is not uber controling. The Seeker has decent controlling at best. What it has is controlling at Extreme Range. Take far shot and distant shot with a greatbow and you have controller effects from up to 55 squares away. Take storm soverign epic destiny and bam! Rain down status effects from the heavens like a god. All in all, a very intruging class (And to echo someone else's post: Please give us a beastmaster option!)
Leaders should be nice not required. Its great when Leaders grant extra attacks. But there needs to be a normal way for any class to use Ranged Basic Attacks without depending on some other character who may or may not be present or able.
Heh, maybe players could make Ranged Opportunity Attacks against distant enemies who *dont* move from their square? Fluffwise, theyr sitting ducks, and gamewise, it encourages movement.
Anyway, the Seeker class is innovating more uses for the RBAs. Id like to see more things like this.
Perhaps the defender build will utilize the RBAs more?
So, the article is up.
The commentary is nice, and gave me a better feel of what the class is about.
I REALLY, REALLY like it now. I miss the Divine Archer, but the Primal Archer is something I like a lot.
I'm interested in the Defender-secondary build too - it's the other natural extention of control, when you lock down opponents, as opposed to blasting them.
With some basic theme changes, this is so far acting exactly like I imagined an Arcane Archer turning out. I only made a level one character to check it out, but I'm not unsatisfied.
some of us in RPG R&D have
pondered what a weapon-using or even a martial controller
would look like. While a number of ideas have found
voice within and without the development and design
pits, none gained traction until the seeker.
LOL
I love it.
Powers that let *someone else* use *ems* Ranged Basic Attack dont impress me.
Powers that let *someone else* use Ranged Basic Attack are made for leaders to use them on rangers/seekers/sorcerer/wizards pirmary and anyone else with a range weapon handy secondary
In other words, class powers that require a Leader to make them work dont impress me. Too situational.
The seeker has various powers, some counting as Ranged Basic. The ones that count as ranged basic get Item boosts, can be used with Leader granted attacks, and synergize with various powers like spitting cobra stance or the "crit on 19" level 2 stance.
A seeker also grants himself a free ranged basic attack 1-2 times per encounter (since the AP recharges in addition to the normal AP effect) when he misses a target and one of the Paragons lets OAs be ranged basic attacks. It's all gravy that's been built into the class and it will help make "ranged basic" mean something. I wonder how a Hybrid Seeker Deft Hurler Style cleave would play out.
In short, they need not be granted attacks to work.
I wonder how a Hybrid Seeker Deft Hurler Style cleave would play out.
it wouldn't work with the current dex/wis seeker build, but it certainly would with the str/wis build (which seams to be heavy thrown based judging by the art)
Like I said, the Seeker innovates new ways to use RBAs. Id like to see more use of RBAs generally, not just here with regard to the Seeker class.
General Henry: ... It certainly would with the str/wis build.
Yeah, the thrown-weapon build is awesome for the spear-hunter archetype, even an aboriginal boomerang hunter. Pretty awesome. And makes nice Op characters too.
Whats the craziest weapon the Seeker could use?
Whats the craziest weapon the Seeker could use?
Fullblade Spiked shield?
I like it, reminds me of an old school Ranger. Personally i think they should of called it the Hunter class. The Seeker just sounds to Harry Poterish.
So the seeker is a Ranged Primal Contoler. For people still waiting for the character builder to update you can check out the class in the compendium!
Primal?
Crap. I wasn't right.
And I'll never play one ... can't stand Primal ...
And cripes, did ALL the anime fanbois crawl out of the woodwork when this was announced?
Well looks like I was half wrong. Although funnily enough, it was the half everyone thought I had right ;) Sorry about that.
Leaders should be nice not required.
Wow, really? Leader is pretty much the only required role.
In other words, class powers that require a Leader to make them work dont impress me. Too situational.
You play LFR don't you? Because situational doesn't really exist in a home game where you work together with your friends to determine which classes you play. If you've got a ranged class that has ranged basic attacks and is built around using those, you play with a leader class that will grant them to you or you play a different class.
I don't think leaders are required; I've been in several games without them and done fine.
The other advantage to a power being a RBA is that there are several magic items that boost RBAs.
I don't think leaders are required; I've been in several games without them and done fine.
What sort of games? LFR? One-Shots? Low level? Paragon?
Over the short term, healers aren't necessary, but over the long term if you hope to survive consistently and the DM isn't pulling punches because of your lack of leader, you're going to die.
I don't get the hang up on the fact that it's primal, versus divine... what's the difference between the two in terms how the class would work? I mean it's a still a controller... with a bow. It's the closest thing we have to a Martial Controller. Oh noes! It's primal! I hate primal!...? Seriously? I mean it could be re-flavored into anything, in fact change the main stat to cha and make it arcane -> boom, it's a gunmage. Reflavor it to Martial, and guess what? We have the martial controller.
Personally, I'm just ecstatic that we have a class that's built to actually be a ranged class with weapons versus blasters like the Warlock, Wizard, and Sorcerer. The Ranger would work too, but really, I just feel that there was a distinct lack of character archetypes that actually used a ranged weapon, now it's been filled. I'm happy. I can't wait to actually play it.
Also, Primal definitely fits better with the Zen, Miko, and what have you of that archetype with bows, it's less about divine as defined by the game, and more about spirits and ancestors which is awfully closer to Primal.
I really can't wait for the PHB3 now. I wanna see what else they stick in there.
Well this is the first Weapon-using controller, and the first type of controller that doesn't automatically get Ritual Casting.
I wonder if that means we'll be getting an Implement-Using Defender, as that hasn't been done yet.
Well this is the first Weapon-using controller, and the first type of controller that doesn't automatically get Ritual Casting.
I wonder if that means we'll be getting an Implement-Using Defender, as that hasn't been done yet.
I'd like to introduce to you to my dear friend Paladin, the Implement-Using Defender...
Well this is the first Weapon-using controller, and the first type of controller that doesn't automatically get Ritual Casting.
I wonder if that means we'll be getting an Implement-Using Defender, as that hasn't been done yet.
Swordmage anyone....
Anyways, I saw the pic on the tiny preview for non-subscribers when you click the article.... some sort of pale guy...
I hope he's a revenant or shadar-kai, because if he's a vistani i'm going to be really pissed. We have enough gothy wanna be humanoid races.
i like how dwarven weapon proficiency with throwing hammers finally can be really exploited by a class (i.e., used with class powers AND not a weapon proficiency already provided by the class). until now, that particular racial trait--mind you, i mean the throwing hammer part, not the warhammer part--offered minimal benefit in almost all cases.
in truth, i am not so certain that it is even worth exploiting, but dagnabit, it is finally there to be exploited . . . so, i'm gonna exploit it.
I suspect he meant an 'implement ONLY defender'.
So someone that can't make basic melee attacks "at all" without using a certain power?
So someone that can't make basic melee attacks "at all" without using a certain power?
I didn't say it was a good idea. But if they did it, more than likely they would have at-will powers that can sub for MBA's.
I don't think leaders are required; I've been in several games without them and done fine.
What sort of games? LFR? One-Shots? Low level? Paragon?Over the short term, healers aren't necessary, but over the long term if you hope to survive consistently and the DM isn't pulling punches because of your lack of leader, you're going to die.
My group doesn't have a leader and they've gone up to epic. No problem
And no, I don't pull punches. Only one character death so far, and that was because of sheer player stupidity.
My group doesn't have a leader and they've gone up to epic. No problemAnd no, I don't pull punches. Only one character death so far, and that was because of sheer player stupidity.
Wow. Having played without a leader, the game is always much harder. Even with a leader I've seen 4 deaths (3 in LFR which is much easier then a standard home game IMO, 1 in a home game). One was to poor player choices, the others however, weren't.
My group doesn't have a leader and they've gone up to epic. No problemAnd no, I don't pull punches. Only one character death so far, and that was because of sheer player stupidity.
Wow. Having played without a leader, the game is always much harder. Even with a leader I've seen 4 deaths (3 in LFR which is much easier then a standard home game IMO, 1 in a home game). One was to poor player choices, the others however, weren't.
Having DMed group without leader can say that people value Potions much higher and can't realy go on for very lomh since teyr surges are lost much less effectively. But in fight they didn't realy had much more problems than party with leader. Dude can give bonus to striker and deal weak damage, while in that place can be another striker and deal same damage (and sometimes more) than leader plus bonus.
It only comes to party resilience but defender heavy partys are resilient by theself, striker heavy dont need to last that long, and controler heavy dont get trashed that much...
And cripes, did ALL the anime fanbois crawl out of the woodwork when this was announced?
Huh?
and
So sayeth the one with a Tranformer as his avatar.
And cripes, did ALL the anime fanbois crawl out of the woodwork when this was announced?Huh?
and
So sayeth the one with a Tranformer as his avatar.
On various threads, people are yammering about the Seeker being a ripoff of Bleach, or Inyashu, or that picture earlier in this thread.
Oh, and G1 Transformers was not an anime. No nosebleeds, no tentacles.
On various threads, people are yammering about the Seeker being a ripoff of Bleach, or Inyashu, or that picture earlier in this thread.
Oh, and G1 Transformers was not an anime. No nosebleeds, no tentacles.
De Nile is a river in Egypt, Salla.
You're getting pretty close to flaming anime fans, especially with the stereotyping. I never said it was a rip-off, I was just kidding around about the similarities back when it was thought to be a Divine class. Plus, you're basically a pot calling the kettles "black", one nerd complaining about other nerds.
I think you just like posting negative things in Primal threads because you hate the source for some incredibly unecessary reason.
Ah oh well, Que Sera Sera...
I'm disappointed so far, it may grow on me as others have, but this one is worse than the others.
The mechanics are solid, it looks like it would be fun to play combat wise.
But thematically I don't really get what it's deal is? Is it really just a ranged Warden?
IMO *ranged weapons + Primal magic* does not make a interesting class concept.
It's really too soon to say all this though, this is just my gut reaction.
But I will say this; I was hoping for a class that would inspire me and this just left me cold.
I'm disappointed so far, it may grow on me as others have, but this one is worse than the others.
The mechanics are solid, it looks like it would be fun to play combat wise.
But thematically I don't really get what it's deal is? Is it really just a ranged Warden?
IMO *ranged weapons + Primal magic* does not make a interesting class concept.
It's really too soon to say all this though, this is just my gut reaction.
But I will say this; I was hoping for a class that would inspire me and this just left me cold.
Since i don't take power sources so strictly (there a good place to start but shouldn't stop creativity) the seeker inspires me to make a Green Arrow or Hawkeye type character, with the flavor of trick arrows rather than primal spirits infused in the projectiles. although i like a new option for a hunter than just a ranger with a bow. I'd still like to see the scout class from 3.5 though.
I don't think there's anything exclusively anime about a class that's a hunter that talks to spirits, and does neat things with those arrows.
First of all neat things with arrows are mostly a fantasy thing, though you could say it might be related to the Green Arrow, who was a Silver Age comicbook character, and thus predates those anime.
Secondly if you're going with the mystical hunter angle, well there's plenty of cultures across the world whether it be Europe, the First Nations, Africa, Australia, Asia and more out there, who have legends about mystical hunters. And they all predate anime too.
'With the flavor of trick arrows rather than primal spirits infused in the projectiles'.
That flavor seems strictly official. The Seeker can 'be' the storm winds, that guide and maneuver the arrow to its destination. Or even be in tune with the wood and metal that comprises the arrow. Or simply emphasize hi Dex for amazing stunts and hi Wis for heightened perception - instinct, reflexes, and senses.
The word 'spirit' is abstract, it doesnt mean the same thing as a 'ghost'. Alchemists talk about the 'spirit' of gold. You can even talk about getting into the 'spirit of football'. Officially, the 'Primal spirit' is abstract and can take the form of however the player visualizes it. Of course, nature spirits can personify plants and animals as if humanish forms, but can also be abstract concepts instead.
Oh, and G1 Transformers was not an anime. No nosebleeds, no tentacles.
Salla, you're being pretty silly. The definition of anime is pretty straightforward: animation made in Japan. If you wanted to get away with the "no wai guyz its knot an animu!" you should have used Beast Wars for your profile image and your example, as it actually isn't anime, being a CGI series made in Canada.
Oh, and off the top of my head, I've never seen an anime with tentacles, and possibly two that involved a nosebleed.
Edit: I just want to point out that I'm generally fond of you as a poster, Salla, so please don't take any offense to my response. =D
I don't think there's anything exclusively anime about a class that's a hunter that talks to spirits, and does neat things with those arrows.
First of all neat things with arrows are mostly a fantasy thing, though you could say it might be related to the Green Arrow, who was a Silver Age comicbook character, and thus predates those anime.
Secondly if you're going with the mystical hunter angle, well there's plenty of cultures across the world whether it be Europe, the First Nations, Africa, Australia, Asia and more out there, who have legends about mystical hunters. And they all predate anime too.
Green Arrow is actually a Golden Age character. He just got really famous in the Silver Age. But he's one of only five DC super-heroes (also Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman) that had an unbroken run from the Golden Age to Silver Age, while the rest all ended up getting canceled for several years due to Wertham & McCarthyism.
"I love that as soon as you slap the 'anime' tag on something, half the nerds get offended and the other half are excited. Both sides, however, are just ignorant. What confuses me, is the anime-haters, what are they attacking anime in favor of? I really hope it isn't western animation, considering I haven't seen anything on Nick or Cartoon Network or Saturday Morning TV (other than anime and the one or two gems) that was worth watching since the early 90s, and even then. The last time I can remember watching anything decent in western animation was Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (which has some eastern flavor, clearly)."
"I'm not sure why that's become the discussion thread, since the Seeker isn't an idea that I can think of seeing in any anime, nor would I attribute it to anime. The Inuyasha reference made earlier was applicable to the divine archer, but that's because it derived from the idea of the 'shrine maiden' which existed in the feudal Japanese era... You know what else derives from the feudal era (and earlier) of both western and eastern cultures? Just about everything that makes fantasy what it is... Dragons, giants, fey, demons..."
"Ugh, that wasn't a greatly coherent agument, I just woke up and ignorance just irritates me... However, my points are there."
'With the flavor of trick arrows rather than primal spirits infused in the projectiles'.
That flavor seems strictly official. The Seeker can 'be' the storm winds, that guide and maneuver the arrow to its destination. Or even be in tune with the wood and metal that comprises the arrow. Or simply emphasize hi Dex for amazing stunts and hi Wis for heightened perception - instinct, reflexes, and senses.
The word 'spirit' is abstract, it doesnt mean the same thing as a 'ghost'. Alchemists talk about the 'spirit' of gold. You can even talk about getting into the 'spirit of football'. Officially, the 'Primal spirit' is abstract and can take the form of however the player visualizes it. Of course, nature spirits can personify plants and animals as if humanish forms, but can also be abstract concepts instead.
A spirit infused within the bow is the termianology used in the class write up, so I assume that they meant it to be the spirits like the animal/plant example you gave at the loosest interpretation.
And I see nothing wrong with taking the mechanics of the class and reflavoring them for a character with the skillset but not the power source.
For example I have a player in an Eberron game playing a Kalashtar shaman. His spirit companion is his Quori spirit, and the spirits he summons are dreams of enemies or friends. By the flavor as written this character doesn't work, but should that stop a good character? For me no it shouldn't, just as the primal source shouldn't stop someone from using the seeker to have mechanics for trick arrows
The Inuyasha reference made earlier was applicable to the divine archer, but that's because it derived from the idea of the 'shrine maiden' which existed in the feudal Japanese era...
Truth be told, the miko fits in with the primal power theme as well since they were Shinto priestesses. Shinto having so much to do with spirits and strong naturalistic and animistic themes (among other themes... it was a bit of a hodgepodge). You could easily transport the Seeker into a OA style campaign as is. Just replace every instance of spirit with Kami.
All that said, the Seeker certainly isn't pigeonholed into that eastern theme.
The Inuyasha reference made earlier was applicable to the divine archer, but that's because it derived from the idea of the 'shrine maiden' which existed in the feudal Japanese era...Truth be told, the miko fits in with the primal power theme as well since they were Shinto priestesses. Shinto having so much to do with spirits and strong naturalistic and animistic themes (among other themes... it was a bit of a hodgepodge). You could easily transport the Seeker into a OA style campaign as is. Just replace every instance of spirit with Kami.
All that said, the Seeker certainly isn't pigeonholed into that eastern theme.
"Given, but I was referring to Kagome specifically, who has a very divine flavor (radiant light that cuts through demons). So technically, your point only furthers that the Miko, which is not ANIME, it is historical (or the mystical miko being mythological). I still see more of a tribal theme with the seeker (especiall with bows being a major Native American weapon/tool)."
"Given, but I was referring to Kagome specifically, who has a very divine flavor (radiant light that cuts through demons). So technically, your point only furthers that the Miko, which is not ANIME, it is historical (or the mystical miko being mythological). I still see more of a tribal theme with the seeker (especiall with bows being a major Native American weapon/tool)."
Then its another win wor WotC I guess. Seeker chapes up as rather unique class and can fill in rather big amount of char concepts: old school ranger, Miko priestess, american native spirit hunter. And I guess we can cook up some more
For example I have a player in an Eberron game playing a Kalashtar shaman. His spirit companion is his Quori spirit, and the spirits he summons are dreams of enemies or friends. By the flavor as written this character doesn't work, but should that stop a good character? For me no it shouldn't, just as the primal source shouldn't stop someone from using the seeker to have mechanics for trick arrows
Oh that kicks some major ass. That is the coolest Kalashtar concept I've seen to date. Honestly the race is a bit weak outside of Ebberon (where it is very strong.) Give that player a cookie for me.
The Inuyasha reference made earlier was applicable to the divine archer, but that's because it derived from the idea of the 'shrine maiden' which existed in the feudal Japanese era...Truth be told, the miko fits in with the primal power theme as well since they were Shinto priestesses. Shinto having so much to do with spirits and strong naturalistic and animistic themes (among other themes... it was a bit of a hodgepodge). You could easily transport the Seeker into a OA style campaign as is. Just replace every instance of spirit with Kami.
All that said, the Seeker certainly isn't pigeonholed into that eastern theme.
"Given, but I was referring to Kagome specifically, who has a very divine flavor (radiant light that cuts through demons). So technically, your point only furthers that the Miko, which is not ANIME, it is historical (or the mystical miko being mythological). I still see more of a tribal theme with the seeker (especiall with bows being a major Native American weapon/tool)."
In a sense it's a divine, but since that power is not attributed to any one god, nor set of gods; though it could be construed to be the "ancestors" or even the power of her pure soul that actually purifies the demons... Kagome only looks divine, but the actual workings are closer to primal or psionic (remember kiddies, psionic now encompasses soul power!)
But yes, as I posted earlier, I don't get why the power source has to matter for the class, when in the end you can easily reflavor the power source and the fluff on the attacks to be anything you want it to be, from Green Arrow to Kagome from Inuyasha. Over all, the fact that it's a weapon using controller is more interesting than power source or even fluff.
"Given, but I was referring to Kagome specifically, who has a very divine flavor (radiant light that cuts through demons). So technically, your point only furthers that the Miko, which is not ANIME, it is historical (or the mystical miko being mythological). I still see more of a tribal theme with the seeker (especiall with bows being a major Native American weapon/tool)."
You make an excellent point, I see how people are saying that the class doesn't feel like it has its own thematic fluff. I disagree, the fluff IS that they are a lot like legendary native american hunters, who prayed to their spirits and claimed that they gave their arrows mystical abilities, such as slaying bears with a single shot, ect...
Of course, that's what I get out of it, bear in mind I'm no expert in anthropology.
For example I have a player in an Eberron game playing a Kalashtar shaman. His spirit companion is his Quori spirit, and the spirits he summons are dreams of enemies or friends. By the flavor as written this character doesn't work, but should that stop a good character? For me no it shouldn't, just as the primal source shouldn't stop someone from using the seeker to have mechanics for trick arrows
Oh that kicks some major ass. That is the coolest Kalashtar concept I've seen to date. Honestly the race is a bit weak outside of Ebberon (where it is very strong.) Give that player a cookie for me.
I will. And yeah it is, but I love them so much anyways.