Shade Alternate Racial Power [Peach] - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Shade Alternate Racial Power [Peach]

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Kalani
Apr 11, 2011 9:48:57 Like many, I personally feel that Mike Mearles justification for the Shade's HS penalty is found wanting.

Not only is the power of situational benefit, but even granting the Shade automatic Stealth Training fails to account for the penalty (once you consider the fact that Eladrin Education is a far superior ability, and comes with no drawback).

As such, I propose the following alternate racial ability for (house-rule) consideration, as something potentially worthy of their racial penalty:
Shadow Walk [Shade Utility]
Encounter * Personal, Minor
Benefit: You become insubstantial and can fly until the end of your next turn.
#2
omegaphallic
Apr 11, 2011 10:45:06 A better option would be the ability to switch out thier basic racial power for one of their utilities. So you could switch out class utility for a shade utility and/or switch out your racial power for one of your level. This would be more balance, even with the penalty which can be snuffed out with durablity and would require the least work. If they don't want to errata it, they could tack it on to the shades equivlent to the Skill Power feat. For example the feat could let you take one free racial power and let you switch out your racial for a second shade power as well.
#3
malisteen
Apr 11, 2011 13:36:40 Mobility + insubstial on a shadowy themed race?

Alternative suggestion: just make the shade racial powers available to shadar=kai.
#4
thespaceinvader
Apr 11, 2011 14:07:27 EH. I'd be happy with just encounter power minor action sustain standard for the same power. Same out of combat effect, useful in-combat effect on a par with other racial powers.

Still doesn't offset the surge penalty, though, so let's go ahead and just remove that.

Makes the shade actually attractive for playing some classes who can benefit from stealth but not obtain it easily.
#5
robertread3
Apr 11, 2011 14:32:24 i would houserule it to a minor action, no one wants to play the shade, even though it is awsome fluff wise.

its got cha and dex/int witch is mostly striker stats (you could go swordmage or cha paladin, but none of the powers a shade has help you do the job of those classes)

strikers do damage, they will always spend their standard actions on attacking, they will never spend a standerd to not attack, unless they are unable to.

-1 healing surge is painful and nothing the shade has really makes up for it, also you have no racial feats, witch is what makes a player race seprate from monster races with no feats.

#6
Mirtek
Apr 11, 2011 15:20:00 I think taking only half damage for two turns (easily half the whole battle) is too powerfull for a racial ability
#7
Janx_14
Apr 11, 2011 16:54:55
I think taking only half damage for two turns (easily half the whole battle) is too powerfull for a racial ability

Its only 1 turn of 1/2 damage for enemies, unless your provoke OA"s on your turn after using the power. Shadar-kai have it very similar, but with a small teleport distance.
#8
Kalani
Apr 11, 2011 20:16:47 The irony here is that despite the similarity, I have never looked at the Shadar-Kai race (it was on my to-do list). I find it a personal validation of my ability to judge power design that Insubstantial until Start/End of next turn combined with a minor movement buff is spot on for a Level 1 Encounter Utility.

#9
Janx_14
Apr 11, 2011 22:59:52 Well, your also taking a silly surge penalty, so it helps offset the lack of it.
#10
Obvious_Ninja
Apr 12, 2011 13:45:28 I'm curious about this but, shouldn't this thread be over on the DnD General Discussion board?

Just sayin' is all...
#11
Kalani
Apr 12, 2011 23:54:55 In hindsight, I believe the Shade would be better served by granting them a variation on the Thief's Sneak's Trick power (HoFL, p177).
Shadow Fade [Shade Utility]
At Will * Personal, Minor
Benefit: If you have any cover or concealment, you can make a Stealth check to hide.

This is what the Shade's racial power should have looked like in the first place, and is something I would be willing to suffer a -1 HS penalty to have.
#12
robertread3
Apr 13, 2011 0:00:57 i am 100% down with Kalani's power and i think ill houserule it if anybody wants to play a shade in my campagin, i typically leave game design to game designers but when the designer says he knows its "sub optiomal" then i think that is grounds to alter it slightly.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Kalani Apr 11, 2011 9:48:57	Like many, I personally feel that Mike Mearles justification for the Shade's HS penalty is found wanting. Not only is the power of situational benefit, but even granting the Shade automatic Stealth Training fails to account for the penalty (once you consider the fact that Eladrin Education is a far superior ability, and comes with no drawback). As such, I propose the following alternate racial ability for (house-rule) consideration, as something potentially worthy of their racial penalty: Shadow Walk [Shade Utility] Encounter * Personal, Minor Benefit: You become insubstantial and can fly until the end of your next turn.
#2 omegaphallic Apr 11, 2011 10:45:06	A better option would be the ability to switch out thier basic racial power for one of their utilities. So you could switch out class utility for a shade utility and/or switch out your racial power for one of your level. This would be more balance, even with the penalty which can be snuffed out with durablity and would require the least work. If they don't want to errata it, they could tack it on to the shades equivlent to the Skill Power feat. For example the feat could let you take one free racial power and let you switch out your racial for a second shade power as well.
#3 malisteen Apr 11, 2011 13:36:40	Mobility + insubstial on a shadowy themed race? Alternative suggestion: just make the shade racial powers available to shadar=kai.
#4 thespaceinvader Apr 11, 2011 14:07:27	EH. I'd be happy with just encounter power minor action sustain standard for the same power. Same out of combat effect, useful in-combat effect on a par with other racial powers. Still doesn't offset the surge penalty, though, so let's go ahead and just remove that. Makes the shade actually attractive for playing some classes who can benefit from stealth but not obtain it easily.
#5 robertread3 Apr 11, 2011 14:32:24	i would houserule it to a minor action, no one wants to play the shade, even though it is awsome fluff wise. its got cha and dex/int witch is mostly striker stats (you could go swordmage or cha paladin, but none of the powers a shade has help you do the job of those classes) strikers do damage, they will always spend their standard actions on attacking, they will never spend a standerd to not attack, unless they are unable to. -1 healing surge is painful and nothing the shade has really makes up for it, also you have no racial feats, witch is what makes a player race seprate from monster races with no feats.
#6 Mirtek Apr 11, 2011 15:20:00	I think taking only half damage for two turns (easily half the whole battle) is too powerfull for a racial ability
#7 Janx_14 Apr 11, 2011 16:54:55	I think taking only half damage for two turns (easily half the whole battle) is too powerfull for a racial ability Its only 1 turn of 1/2 damage for enemies, unless your provoke OA"s on your turn after using the power. Shadar-kai have it very similar, but with a small teleport distance.
#8 Kalani Apr 11, 2011 20:16:47	The irony here is that despite the similarity, I have never looked at the Shadar-Kai race (it was on my to-do list). I find it a personal validation of my ability to judge power design that Insubstantial until Start/End of next turn combined with a minor movement buff is spot on for a Level 1 Encounter Utility.
#9 Janx_14 Apr 11, 2011 22:59:52	Well, your also taking a silly surge penalty, so it helps offset the lack of it.
#10 Obvious_Ninja Apr 12, 2011 13:45:28	I'm curious about this but, shouldn't this thread be over on the DnD General Discussion board? Just sayin' is all...
#11 Kalani Apr 12, 2011 23:54:55	In hindsight, I believe the Shade would be better served by granting them a variation on the Thief's Sneak's Trick power (HoFL, p177). Shadow Fade [Shade Utility] At Will * Personal, Minor Benefit: If you have any cover or concealment, you can make a Stealth check to hide. This is what the Shade's racial power should have looked like in the first place, and is something I would be willing to suffer a -1 HS penalty to have.
#12 robertread3 Apr 13, 2011 0:00:57	i am 100% down with Kalani's power and i think ill houserule it if anybody wants to play a shade in my campagin, i typically leave game design to game designers but when the designer says he knows its "sub optiomal" then i think that is grounds to alter it slightly.