This is what I think so far.
Illusionist-Shadow Controller(uses powers to blind, confuse, manipulate enemies, making them never know if that shadow conjuration fireball will just scare them or burn them for real )
Necromancer-Shadow Controller/Striker(Like a shadow version of the warlock IMO)(Uses powerful necrotic powers to annihilate their foes and occasionally raise their fallen foes to work as minions for their bidding)
Blackguard(Speculation)Shadow Defender(Imbues weapon with necrotic, fire, acid, or cold damage to damage foes, and can drain foes of their lifeforce to gain temporary hp)
Assassin-Shadow Striker (Speculation, and yes I know there's the shadow assassin PP for the rogue, but I'm sure a lot of folks are gonna disagree about the necro being a striker so I had to add something else) (Attacks with necrotic or poison damage, gets teleports and invisibility powers)
Basically I speculated the Assassin off of the 3.5 prestige classes shadowdancer and assassin, seems like it would work well.
So whats everyone else think/expect/speculate from the Shadow source?
Controller: Illusionist
Leader: Necromancer
Striker: Ninja
Defender: Blackguard/Shadowdancer(I really don't know about what a good fourth class would be so I just went with some old ones.)
Also I feel it is neccesary to point out that the necromancer and illusionists haven't been completely confirmed yet(although odds are heavily in their favor).
Controller: illusionist: the other white meat
defender: blackguard, not an emo paladin
striker: shadow dance, I know an at-will move action
with the no-alignment rules we might see lawful-good necromancers,
which I can believe if they had good reasons like:
"I give a warriors body another chance to fight after they pass away"
"I must save people from the evil of death"(gone crazy but still good)
"I would animate golems but they cost too much."
"I will use fire to fight fire"
"well... they're not using their bodies right now"
"do you REALLY want to carry all our stuff around"
"uhhh the zombie is liberating the brains of that little girl from it's imprisonment."
"the skeleton is emitting dark, crackling rays of ultimate justice."
"I'm not emo, i'm just misunderstood ":raincloud
defender: Hexblade
striker: shadow dancer
Controller: Illusionist.
Leader: Necromancer.
Striker: Shadowdancer.
Defender: Meh. Maybe they won't have a defender.
The ninja or assassin type others have mentioned might be interesting. For a main shadow striker, though, I'd still guess (and pick, if I had the choice) a shadowdancer or something similar (a spooky, teleporting or phasing type).
Striker: Shadowdancer.
Defender: Meh. Maybe they won't have a defender.
The ninja or assassin type others have mentioned might be interesting. For a main shadow striker, though, I'd still guess (and pick, if I had the choice) a shadowdancer or something similar (a spooky, teleporting or phasing type).
I disagree with the no shadow defender, not necessarily a Blackguard like I suggested, but I'm sure fans are itching to have a dark knight, shadow warrior type. Fans have been Homebrewing Dark Knight/Shadow Warrior types on the forums at least since 3e and when a pally in 3e multiclasses and substituted his pally levels with blackguard you ended up with a much beefier Blackguard with lay on hands and tons of smites per day, it was the first real prestige class for the paladin so I'm doubting Wizards will pass up a chance to make one. Good call on Shadowdancer, knew a lot of rogues in 3e that took that prestige class up, seems a likely candidate for shadow striker.
I cant seem to agree with Necromancer being a leader though, seems too fragile with robes and such for the part, most leaders can hang in there with defenders, though I could see them possibly spamming heals on minions they create.
Defender: Meh. Maybe they won't have a defender.
I have to stick with Hexblade here...A curse that doubles as a mark, good HP, Good armor...just seams a nat fit, also it got the most love in splat books, so someone at WotC must love the idea
Controller: illusionist, and Necromancer
defender: Hexblade
striker: shadow dancer
Oh Hexblade! Good call, I'm changing my fourth class idea to that. So that makes my calls:
Controller: Illusionist
Leader: Necromancer
Striker: Ninja
Defender: Hexblade
I have to stick with Hexblade here...A curse that doubles as a mark, good HP, Good armor...just seams a nat fit, also it got the most love in splat books, so someone at WotC must love the idea
Really, I thought the Hexblade got the bastard red-headed stepchild treatment form WotC. Well, it did get a bit of love in the PHB II.
But I still think the Hexblade is a strong contender for Shadow Defender, as I have been speculating the following for months:
-Defender: Hexblade/Blackguard
-Controller: Illusionist
-Leader: Necromancer
-Striker: Assassin/Ninja
I disagree with the no shadow defender, not necessarily a Blackguard like I suggested, but I'm sure fans are itching to have a dark knight, shadow warrior type. Fans have been Homebrewing Dark Knight/Shadow Warrior types on the forums at least since 3e and when a pally in 3e multiclasses and substituted his pally levels with blackguard you ended up with a much beefier Blackguard with lay on hands and tons of smites per day, it was the first real prestige class for the paladin so I'm doubting Wizards will pass up a chance to make one. Good call on Shadowdancer, knew a lot of rogues in 3e that took that prestige class up, seems a likely candidate for shadow striker.
I cant seem to agree with Necromancer being a leader though, seems too fragile with robes and such for the part, most leaders can hang in there with defenders, though I could see them possibly spamming heals on minions they create.
On the Dark Knight/Shadow Warrior thing...with those names, I'm sold! :D I wasn't aware there was any particular interest, but obviously that's just because I didn't know someone who wanted something like that. I guess I always just figured everyone used the blackguard and that was enough for them. Heh. :embarrass
As for the Necromancer, debilitating effects are certainly more controller, but if that were the primary focus of the class then undead would just be a side thing. I'm not personally attached to necromancers (just like with the blackguard thing), so I'm just speculating here, but I would guess that many people are looking for powers to raise the dead and summon spirits and create false life (temp hp), which sounds more like a leader.
Hrrmmmm...now that I think I about it, I really don't know which role would be the best home base for a Necromancer. That may be a topic for another thread though.
I think the shadow controller will be a shadowcaster.
See now I still think that the illusionist is going to be an arcane controller and the 'I' that is mentioned in PHBII.
The Sorcerer is the confirmed 2nd Arcane Controller in the PHB II.
Most are speculating the "I" class in the PHB II will be a Divine Striker – Inquisitor or Invoker.
illusionist
i still think that the illusionist class should have psionics as a power source (as an aside, charm spells, too, should have psionics as a power source), rather than shadow as a power source. in prior editions, most illusion spells were mind-affecting powers. yes, some illusion spells were shadow-based spells, but those spells should now be separated from the mind-affecting variety and moved to a different class: shadowcaster.
shadowcaster
this class as a controller really needs no justifying arguments from me. shadowcaster kills the old shadow-based illusionist and took his stuff. it is a no brainer.
necromancer (undead summoner)
we have not yet seen wotc embrace summoning on a class-wide basis in 4e, but if they do, then this would be an easy fit. perhaps it needs a new name so that "necromancer" could be used by the shadow leader class (see below).
leader
necromancer
he debuffs enemies and, as a result, passes along buffs to his allies. lots of fear and cold spells, maybe darkness spells. this is a leader (buffs) with a minor in controller (debuffs--slow, immobilized, dazed, blinded, etc.). perhaps it needs a new name so that "necromancer" could be used by the shadow controller class (see above).
striker
shadow dancer
nuff said. well, actually, i see this class using short teleports (a la feylock) that grant bonus damage. similer to warlocks' movement, these teleports would grant concealment. no worries about the similarity to a warlock feature because the warlock is a ranged striker, whereas the shadowdancer would be a melee striker.
ninja
although i see what some people are seeing in ninjas and shadow, i think that ninjas are much more likely to have ki as a power source.
defender
hexblade
debuffing and magical darkness as a source of stickiness. yum!
blackguard
my concern with this name is that, because of its use in prior editions, it connotes evil, which shadow is not, necessarily.
Leader-Necromancer (With the two builds being debuffing and fear, and undead creation)
controller-Shadowcaster (Tome of magic comeback: is probably single-handedly responsible for the shadow power source)
Striker-Shadow dancer (Didn't think of this, but it sounds cool)
Defender-Hexblade (Another class that needs a second chance)
Keep your fingers crossed.
I also concur that the Hexblade would make a good Shadow Defender. I don't understand why some people believe that the Ninja will be the Shadow Striker; this is inane, IMO, as the Ninja has always been a Ki powered class. I think some mix of Shadowdancer and some of the classes in the Tome of Magic
And the necromancer and illusiomnist have always been arcane. :P The ninja at its core fits very well with the shadow power source as being unnoticed/in the shadows is a very big part of the class.
I think a Shadow Striker is much more likely to be similar to the Shadowdancer, and the Shadowblade from Tome of Magic.
I would also like to see a new version of the Shadowcaster, but the likelihood of this is slim as the Illusionist and Necromancer are probably both going to be Controllers.
Necromancer, as much as I'd like to see it probably won't be in at least focusing on undead, unless they give us an undead player race. However a class that summons shadow beasts and such may be - the proverbial Shadowcaster, this would be a good controller, especially if they have to conjure an area of shadows to provide cover/attack from.
As for the ninja, it's already in the game folks, it's called a rogue. :P But, the shadow dancer, with some teleporting powers may be neat. Striker to boot.
As for a leader, well that's the harder one. Blackguard could do it, leaving the hexblade to not get slaughtered. Oh, well, only time will tell.
As to blackguard equaling evil, well, see the warlock or the new Paladin.
good point.
where does wotc stand on the issue of using a name for a pc class that has already been used by a monster? blackguards already exist in the "dark heart of mithrendain" dungeon adventure.
Opinions-
Shadow Defender- Blackguard
Shadow Striker- Shadow Dancer
Shadow Controller- Illusionist
Shadow Leader- Necromancer
After some thought, I ended up believing the necromancer could be an effective leader, how a cleric uses divine power to call forth the soul back into the body or warm light heals wounds, a necromancer uses his mastery over death to force the soul back into its body, and how a cleric or paladin normally gets a hit and damage power with the effect of ally being able to use a healing surge, a necromancer hit and damages and enemy, then steals their life force and transfers it to an ally. Besides that the Leader is not a truly defined role beyond healer/buffer so it doesnt necessarily have to be a secondary tank like the incarnations we've seen so far.
I still can't find myself convinced the hexblade to make it back as a core class. It was after all a prototype for the warlock, and although in 3.e
I surely liked the hexblade a lot it sounds more like its going to be a new class build for the warlock in arcane power that emphasizes on melee destructive abilities rather than ranged. I also wouldn't pit the Blackguard as a leader because they really weren't much different than the paladin from 3e except better offensive capabilities and pet summoning.
The Sorcerer is the confirmed 2nd Arcane Controller in the PHB II.
Most are speculating the "I" class in the PHB II will be a Divine Striker – Inquisitor or Invoker.
Hmm - but does that mean that we can't have two controllers? I just can't see them leaving one of the iconic 1e classes waiting until PHBIII.
I still think that 3e Tome of Magic is going to form the basis of the shadow power source and it is going to stick to the theme that illusionists only scratch the surface of the Shadowfell. This way they can keep the gnome illusionist link without the need to link a fey creature to the Shadowfell. You can already build a passable illusionist currently, bearing in mind that Colour Spray, Prismatic Spray, and Memsmerising Hold are all based on 1e illusionist spells. Add that to the arcane illusions in Dragon and hey presto. The downside is that you have limited options at the moment.
One possibility might be to introduce illusionist as a third wizard class build perhaps with bonuses added to spells for a high charisma, (like the two weapon fighter) with more illusion options in the arcane handbook to give more options. Shadow mage could even be an arcane paragon path to add back in the flavour of illusionist shadow magic from the old books.
Hmm - but does that mean that we can't have two controllers?
We will have two arcane controllers, the Wizard and Sorcerer (confirmed), and probably a Divine (Theurge?) and Primal (Witch?) one.
We will have two arcane controllers, the Wizard and Sorcerer (confirmed), and probably a Divine (Theurge?) and Primal (Witch?) one.
Lol. But if there is no hard wired parity between the class roles, then there is no reason why we couldn't have two arcane controllers in the same book. Although, I agree though that I'd be keen to see other power sources adopting the controller role instead.
The gnome illusionist type npc in MM has no whiff of shadow about him nor do I think that should be a requirement for a fey illusionist. Fairies have a long tradition of using glamer to trick people.
If they have decided to merge the illusionist, 2e shadow mage, and 3e shdowcaster into one shadow class then that would make an interesting class. It does mean that a more traditional illusionist build might only be possible if you multiclass into wizard. I'm still not convinced.
Lol. But if there is no hard wired parity between the class roles, then there is no reason why we couldn't have two arcane controllers in the same book. Although, I agree though that I'd be keen to see other power sources adopting the controller role instead.
The gnome illusionist type npc in MM has no whiff of shadow about him nor do I think that should be a requirement for a fey illusionist. Fairies have a long tradition of using glamer to trick people.
If they have decided to merge the illusionist, 2e shadow mage, and 3e shdowcaster into one shadow class then that would make an interesting class. It does mean that a more traditional illusionist build might only be possible if you multiclass into wizard. I'm still not convinced.
Actually we know all the Arcane classes in the PHBII, Bard and Sorceror. No other arcane classes in the book.
Actually we know all the Arcane classes in the PHBII, Bard and Sorceror. No other arcane classes in the book.
Ah ok, I was forgetting that we were looking at 2 arcane, 2 divine, and 4 primal. No Illusionist for 2 years then unless it's released in Dragon then. Either as a fresh controlling wizard build in Arcane Handbook or a fully fledged shadowcaster hybrid. Shame.
Not that I've ever played an illusionist. My pc is a shadow mage (currently a warlock). The best I can hope for her for now is a shadow pact article in Dragon.
They are leaders of their own group inside the party they belong to; however, they are not good leaders of the party since their combat tactics works well only if the members life is meaningless (like its undead); in conclusion they should be controllers
as far as Necromancers should be...
They are leaders of their own group inside the party they belong to; however, they are not good leaders of the party since their combat tactics works well only if the members life is meaningless (like its undead); in conclusion they should be controllers
Unless you treat the necromancer to it's earliest routes, in which they summon spirits to commune with. Heck, they could summon a spirit of a fallen warrior to heal, or a great leader to rally their allies. I'd see them as having a slew of maintain minor powers. Limiting the number of spirits they have, to at most 3, and with that all the character does is stand around talking to ghosts - whether the rest of the party sees said ghosts or not.
Of course, that necromancer could be less shadow and more primal in a way. But, whichever flavour, or they have more of.
I expect they will be quite careful not to step on the warlock's toes. Cursing and dealing with evil spirits are certainly considered "arcane" in this edition. I fully expect the flavor (NOT the mechanics) for all the shadow classes to look eerily similar to the middle section of Tome of Magic.
Between psionics and primal classes I expect them to have their act together on summoning by the time the necromancer comes along. I agree that it's likely going to have striker and controller aspects, and the undead buddies could distinguish it from the illusioninst (who makes no sense as anything but controller IMO). In fact, I'd expect a necromancer build with an undead companion, since the post-Martial Power ranger will be a precedent.
Goodness gracious that was quite a rant. Sorry about the history lesson guys, but just responding from "Blackguard is a horrible name for shadow defender", with an " Is not!" comment just didn't seem like it would cover it.
Leader: Necromancer (Necromancer/Shadowcaster)
Defender: Umbral Knight (Hexblade/Blackguard)
Controller: Illusionist
Striker: Shadowdancer
Bel
I've always figured on shadowdancer making a grand comeback. As for a shadow defender, could happen, but I doubt they will go with "hexblade" or "blackguard" for the names. Much as I liked those classes, they are borderline terrible names and I fully expect them to disappear, just as the "Marshal" did.
I expect they will be quite careful not to step on the warlock's toes. Cursing and dealing with evil spirits are certainly considered "arcane" in this edition. I fully expect the flavor (NOT the mechanics) for all the shadow classes to look eerily similar to the middle section of Tome of Magic.
I happen to think that wizards may do the right thing and make the hexblade the melee paragon path for the warlock that people have been clamoring for.
I see where the shadow powered ninja people are coming from. Ninja's using illusion to keep hidden and quiet. It's not happening. They still aren't sure if the even illusionist is going to be shadow powered or not, infact, they are putting more illusion magic into arcane power (possibly an illusionist build?). With the illusionist as shadow in jeopardy the ninja is surely not going to happen. You have to It just makes more sense for Wizards to use Ki for the same effect. Also, how many people would whine about it, ya' know?
Finally, has nobody considered the Witch. Could be a striker, could be a controller. Just want to mix things up.
I happen to think that wizards may do the right thing and make the hexblade the melee paragon path for the warlock that people have been clamoring for.
that would be the coolest
Shadow classes
Leader: Necromancer (Necromancer/Shadowcaster)
Defender: Umbral Knight (Hexblade/Blackguard)
Controller: Illusionist
Striker: Shadowdancer
a solid list; however, i thought i read that wotc decided that class names would be no more than one word. so, umbral knight, although quite cool, might not be an option.
also, i see shadowcaster as more of a controller than a leader.
Finally, has nobody considered the Witch.
I think the Witch might be the "W" class in the PHB II – I'm thinking Primal Controller.
I'd rather see illusionist split. Give us a paragon path and enough powers to fill out a built from those already in dragon for the wizard class, and give us a shadowcaster controller with three builts: shadow evocation spells (AoE necrotic damage and controlling zones), shadow illusions, and maybe at some point (Shadow Power accessory?) shadow conjurations as well.
I'd rather see the shadowdancer as a striker, though technically the blackguard could be a striker as well (he did have sneak attack after all). And I'd love a Hexblade defender!
I see where the shadow powered ninja people are coming from. Ninja's using illusion to keep hidden and quiet. It's not happening. They still aren't sure if the even illusionist is going to be shadow powered or not, infact, they are putting more illusion magic into arcane power (possibly an illusionist build?). With the illusionist as shadow in jeopardy the ninja is surely not going to happen. You have to It just makes more sense for Wizards to use Ki for the same effect. Also, how many people would whine about it, ya' know?
What kind of cheap ninja uses illusions? My view of ninjas is that "true" mythical ninajs(yeah oxymoron there) are people who have managed to become onwe with both the darkness and the shadows. They don't just appear to not be there because they are using illusions, they are literally not there because they have fused themselves with the shadows near them. They hop from shadow to shadow to sneak past guards and so on and so forth. That is not a description of someone who uses the ki power source.
Besides, illusions are not in danger of not being in the shadow power source any more then necromancy. Everytime that necromancy is mentioned in reference to the shadow power source, illusion magic is only a few words behind. Arcane Power may have some illusion powers in it, but that hardly precludes the appearance of a class based on it later on. Unless you want to argue that they aren't going to do the Elemental power source because the arcane classes already do elemental damage.
Witch is highly speculated to be Primal class. It makes sense too, considering most practicing witches as a religion, worship nature and the forces thereof.
Meh, I've done a detailed proof on why the Witch isn't the fourth Primal class. I really think that it is an outside chance at this point.
Shadowdancer. Although I think this class will graduate to a full class, it may get "renamed" while using the skills and powers that a Shadowdancer would use. The problem is the "dancer" part. It may change to a shorter name or have a new second part. Perhaps the Illusionist may get all the abilities that the Shadowdancer as well as the illusionist abilities and powers.
Ninja are certainly a possibility for the shadow power source. Just don't expect the Anime Ninja with the fireball projectiles and such. The Ninja are the ultimate strikers, and would use the Shadows for stealth and surprise. It could be that the Shadowdancer can be used up by this class. As far as Ki is concerned, the Ninja have always been considered outsiders in the Oriental universe. I talk about generalities, no just D&D. It wouldn't be a big jump to have Ninja in the Shadow power source instead of Ki.
The Necromancer is an unique case that is up in the air on how the undead would be used. I think the new classes in the upcoming PHB2 will shed some light on this.
Unlike some that have already posted, I don't believe that all the roles are going to be "filled" up for Shadow. That was never the purpose for this design tool.
Unlike some that have already posted, I don't believe that all the roles are going to be "filled" up for Shadow. That was never the purpose for this design tool.
Very true, there could easily not be a shadow defender or what have you.
But of course there could be. We know they are not obsessing about filling out the power source/role grid. But so far we know all the roles will be covered within Arcane, come the PHB II and FRPG, but we may never see a Martial Controller.
Very true, there could easily not be a shadow defender or what have you.
But of course there could be. We know they are not obsessing about filling out the power source/role grid. But so far we know all the roles will be covered within Arcane, come the PHB II and FRPG, but we may never see a Martial Controller.
Actually I think it is slightly more likely that were shadow to be missing a role, it would be leader as the other three roles are fairly easy to come up with. However leader is basically limited in speculation to necromancers and I could easily see them making it something other then leader.
though technically the blackguard could be a striker as well (he did have sneak attack after all)!
True, but he was still heavily armored as well and if he had some paladin levels he also had lay on hands, more smites per day than pally, so blackguard was better offensively than paladin and but it was a tank class still, maybe more oomph to the cannon and likes to rolls over you tank, but still a tank.
What kind of cheap ninja uses illusions? My view of ninjas is that "true" mythical ninajs(yeah oxymoron there) are people who have managed to become onwe with both the darkness and the shadows. They don't just appear to not be there because they are using illusions, they are literally not there because they have fused themselves with the shadows near them. They hop from shadow to shadow to sneak past guards and so on and so forth. That is not a description of someone who uses the ki power source.
Really? Is that why in the previous edition ninja's actually had and used ki points? Ninjas could go invisible or blur themselves etc, but it was all done via ki point usage, ninjas even had a specific multiclass feat for monk because they were themed so well together. One thing you can say about wizards is that they have been respectful about at the very least, keeping the classing within their element, paladins and clerics are divine, wizard, bard and sorcerer are arcane, monks and ninjas are ki, not shadow, but ki. I understand you imagine your ninja manipulating shadows and such, and in terms of text flavor or power names you'll probably get your way, but the whole ki power source classes are all just going to be the oriental themed classes from 3e. Samurai, Ninja, Monk, probably Wu Jen and Shujenja too.
As far as having your ninja still do more shadowy tricks and things, you could always ask your dm if he/she'd change the power source for you, but keep the powers.
Really? Is that why in the previous edition ninja's actually had and used ki points? Ninjas could go invisible or blur themselves etc, but it was all done via ki point usage, ninjas even had a specific multiclass feat for monk because they were themed so well together. One thing you can say about wizards is that they have been respectful about at the very least, keeping the classing within their element, paladins and clerics are divine, wizard, bard and sorcerer are arcane, monks and ninjas are ki, not shadow, but ki. I understand you imagine your ninja manipulating shadows and such, and in terms of text flavor or power names you'll probably get your way, but the whole ki power source classes are all just going to be the oriental themed classes from 3e. Samurai, Ninja, Monk, probably Wu Jen and Shujenja too.
As far as having your ninja still do more shadowy tricks and things, you could always ask your dm if he/she'd change the power source for you, but keep the powers.
Did I say that this was how the ninja was in previous editions? No. I said that is how I see fantasy ninjas.
The classes you mention are all best described by the power source you mentioned and the power source exists in both 3rd and 4th edition. However compare that with the Barbarian and Druid a martial and divine class in 3rd edition. Now both of them are primal classes because they fit better with the archetypes that they are trying to expres with the classes. Ninjas have not been confirmed as being Ki just yet so don't go making definite claims about that just yet.
And the Ki power source is not the "asian" power source. It is the power source that draws upon the power of the character's soul, nowhere does that say all "asian" classes must go into it.
And frankly I have no desire to play a ninja, I just think it fits by far the best as a shadow class.
the whole ki power source classes are all just going to be the oriental themed classes from 3e. Samurai, Ninja, Monk, probably Wu Jen and Shujenja too.
Not confirmed, and exactly what I don't want.
Ki can encompass Incarnum and all sorts of "soul" harnessing concepts, now that it looks like it's been separated from a purely Asian/Oriental thing…thank god
While I could see things like the Sohei maybe being a Ki Defender, there is no reason why a Shugenja or Wu-Jen should be Ki based to me.
The umbriri powers are quite groovy as they stand so once I've got the book I might have to sit down and work out if it's worth multiclassing my warlock into swordmage to access them.
A close look at the Dark Pact for Warlocks is heavily influenced by the Shadowfell, even mentioning it in several of the powers.
Actually they said the dark pact was made through the drow and the secret powers within the underdark. Remember that even if the flavor text describes it as drawing from the shadowfell, its just flavor. I'm sure WotC is probably not going to mix power sources via paragons or whatever, which sucks, cause I've been dying to see a cross class paragon specifically the arcane archer.
Ki power source eating up and partially using Incarnum?! Awesome idea!! I thought a lot of Incarnum wasn't a bad idea, it just didn't feel very balanced or work the way I thought it would.
My apologies Ranadiel, it seems when I was trying to be sarcastic to be humorous, I ended up offending you instead.
Actually they said the dark pact was made through the drow and the secret powers within the underdark. Remember that even if the flavor text describes it as drawing from the shadowfell, its just flavor. I'm sure WotC is probably not going to mix power sources via paragons or whatever, which sucks, cause I've been dying to see a cross class paragon specifically the arcane archer.
imc, the drow largely migrated long ago to the underdark of the shadowfell.
My apologies Ranadiel, it seems when I was trying to be sarcastic to be humorous, I ended up offending you instead.
No problem, I'm just very touchy on the Ki thing. Probably due to the fact that I've taken four sociology classes taught by professors who specialize in race relations and their specialization has a tendancy to bleed into the curriculum.:embarrass
well, arguing against myself it does kinda feel like the drow should have been tapped into the shadowfell, like how the eladrin were from the feywild. Eladrins racial abilities are tied into that, and I think that while drow have had said racial powers from earlier editions that tying them to the shadowfell at least by wizards saying something like, when Lolth claimed them as her people and retreated away from the world, that maybe their initial planar home was the shadowfell and that it twisted their physical appearance and they were able to draw power from it. I dunno, something or anything would've been nice
me likes.
Controller: Illusionist - Heavy on confusion effects, false images, etc. Controls the field by dazing/misdirecting enemy units. Very few AOE Damage spells.
Striker: Necromancer - What you say? That's crazy you say? Necro's would only be a leader class if the party was made up of undead... At least that's my opinion. Rather, I see the necromancer being a striker that's like a hybrid of a Warlock and a Beastmaster Spec Ranger. Using rules similar to the Animal companion build rules for ranger comming in Martial Powers, the Necro will have one or several undead minions. He'll possess a number of powers to buff those minions, and a number of direct damage Necromantic power spells, and a few sickness/poison debuffs. He won't have powers to heal/buff the party.
Striker 2: Cause strikers seem more prevelent: Ninja/Assassin - I don't know what to name it, because both names have prior connotations that don't fit the idea. Basically, a class that uses concealment and suprise the way that rogues generally use flanking. Powers would either grant concealment, or deal greater damage when used from concealment. Rogue with larger blades, more emphasis on hiding than flanking.
Defender: Hexblade - Possibly with a different name, possibly not. Cursing works as a hybrid of Fighter Mark and Warlock Curse, Powers with a flavor like Swordmage, but totally focused into Necro, Poison, or fear effects.
Leader: Possibly None. I have trouble seeing a Shadow power class focusing on healing and group buffing.
On Blackguard: So, blackguard is the Anti-Paladin. The fallen paladin who has turned to evil. Except, in 4th ed, you can be a paladin of an evil god. Okay, not fully using PHBI, but still. Paladins in 4e aren't required to be good, they can be evil and still be a paladin.
So, there isn't really a spot in 4e (at the moment) for 'Fallen' paladins.
I doubt that Blackguard will be a shadow power class.
Controller: Illusionist
Defender: Death Knight
Striker: None Initially?
anyway.
did any of you, my fellow posters ever take in the account on the possibility that the shadow power source might show up in the new planes book??
I'm just very touchy on the Ki thing.
…We've noticed, and not just the Ki thing…
the death knight is a monster template or some such in the mm.... well i suppose it could, but well i dont care.
anyway.
did any of you, my fellow posters ever take in the account on the possibility that the shadow power source might show up in the new planes book??
No new classes outside of the PHBs and cmpaign player's guides. And since power sources exist for the sake of classes, introducing a power source without any classes is kind of pointless.
ahh but the illusionist was nothing more than a wizard with alt. class features wasnt it?
I don't know where you got that idea, but if that were the case then that would hardly be introducing a new power source. As the wizard, no matter what alternate class features it gets, will always be arcane.Actually they said the dark pact was made through the drow and the secret powers within the underdark. Remember that even if the flavor text describes it as drawing from the shadowfell, its just flavor. I'm sure WotC is probably not going to mix power sources via paragons or whatever, which sucks, cause I've been dying to see a cross class paragon specifically the arcane archer.
As an aside, they've already released mixed power source paragon paths in both the FRPG and through Dragon magazine.
As to the main thread... my votes would be
Controller: Illusionist
Striker: Shadowdancer
Defender: Hexblade
Controller / Leader: Necromancer
I can reasonably see there not being a leader class for shadow, although the necromancer is a good candidate for it if there is one.
For instance, a "Frightening Image" power would create a 'fear' effect illusion that damages and shifts enemies away from it. Or an "Alluring Image" power would shift enemies toward it, and could possibly even be moved to draw enemies away. Other powers might include 'shadow conjuration'-type effects that summon creatures to damage enemies, or even a few mind-influencing powers (though not to the same extent as a psion).
Necromancer is a harder class to place. Because most necromancers focus on summoning a horde of minions, Controller seems like a good fit (since hordes help to control the battlefield). Leader could also potentially work if the necromancer focuses on draining energy from his minions/enemies and using it to boost other minions/party members.
Illusionist will probably be a Controller class that focuses on manipulating shadow energy into quasi-real images. The actual forms of these images will be mutable; the powers will focus on their actual effect.
For instance, a "Frightening Image" power would create a 'fear' effect illusion that damages and shifts enemies away from it. Or an "Alluring Image" power would shift enemies toward it, and could possibly even be moved to draw enemies away. Other powers might include 'shadow conjuration'-type effects that summon creatures to damage enemies, or even a few mind-influencing powers (though not to the same extent as a psion).
Necromancer is a harder class to place. Because most necromancers focus on summoning a horde of minions, Controller seems like a good fit (since hordes help to control the battlefield). Leader could also potentially work if the necromancer focuses on draining energy from his minions/enemies and using it to boost other minions/party members.
I love those image spell ideas...the names and the pushing and pulling effects. I think the 4e illusionist may emphasize (in 3e terms) phantasms more than glamers. (Edit: Without stepping on the psion's toes, of course.) With both illusion and necromancy prospectively tied to the Shadow power source I see fears, dreams, nightmares, and mysteries being played up more than simple arcane trickery.
On the Necromancer, what if summoned undead functioned by granting advantages (flanking, etc.) and/or taking hits for allies? Is that too roundabout? I'm just trying to think of a way the Necromancer could fill the leader role yet still retain the "undead servants" flavor, since such servants seem to add more to control than party buffing. We may just end up with two shadow controllers.
Anyway, what good speculator would I be if I did not give my imput on a speculative class list? Let me just say that the names I am using are names that I think would fit best for the concepts that I think can be rolled together well. I know there will be issues ITHO of others, so I am putting the names in the classes I list in quotations, because I am open minded to other names. Well, here it goes:
Defender- "Dark Knight": Encompassing Blackgaurds, Hexblades, and would be evil-aligned paladins, and more. One idea of an interesting mark might be that he blinds an enemy in illusion, so that he is the only clear one in the enemy's vision, and all others are shrouded in darkness.
Striker- "Beguiler": This class wears the equipment of a rogue, but also encompasses Shadowdancer and "Assassin/ninja" abilities. Through use of trickery enhanced by magic, the beguiler gets in close and deals blows wounding both to body and mind. If a class role is not filled by the Shadow Power source, I feel it will be Striker.
Leader- "Necromancer": These guys actually do very little with animating corpses in combat (while they do call upon some, this sort of thing is what rituals were designed for.) But these guys do have powers that channel the powers of deceased spirits to both debilitate their foes and enhance their allies. Where a cleric magically restores life through faith, the necromancer can close wounds by simply not letting an allie's life force leave, and paying for the difference in cost with the mortality of his enemies.
Controller- "Witch": While this class does posess the "shadow evocation" and illusion (at-will/encounter powers) of the Shadowcaster, she beats the shadowcaster both in name-awesomeness, and in verity of skills. This class also possesses the powerful ability to put the dominated condition on enemies, as well as dailly powers that "summon" creatures to the field of combat for some time. A true member of this class knows that the creatures brought to the field are not real, but simply weaved of shadow.
I have conflicting opinions about Shadow power... Firstly, very few good words exist in the current vernacular to describe would-be shadow classes, and words like "Shadowcaster" and "Hexblade" are... well, compound words, and not much different from two-word class names, which WotC has declared they will not use in 4e (so I have heard). At any rate, Shadow really seems to be on thin ice as far as conflicting with Arcane power's stuff. While in a fantasy world, it is easily conceivable that darkness itself is powerful enough of an entity to give an individual a unique set of abilities found nowhere else in the world, I think some classes might have difficulty coming into development simply because in our world, Arcane and Shadow power have been connected at the hips in most cultures.
Anyway, what good speculator would I be if I did not give my imput on a speculative class list? Let me just say that the names I am using are names that I think would fit best for the concepts that I think can be rolled together well. I know there will be issues ITHO of others, so I am putting the names in the classes I list in quotations, because I am open minded to other names. Well, here it goes:
Defender- "Dark Knight": Encompassing Blackgaurds, Hexblades, and would be evil-aligned paladins, and more. One idea of an interesting mark might be that he blinds an enemy in illusion, so that he is the only clear one in the enemy's vision, and all others are shrouded in darkness.
Striker- "Beguiler": This class wears the equipment of a rogue, but also encompasses Shadowdancer and "Assassin/ninja" abilities. Through use of trickery enhanced by magic, the beguiler gets in close and deals blows wounding both to body and mind. If a class role is not filled by the Shadow Power source, I feel it will be Striker.
Leader- "Necromancer": These guys actually do very little with animating corpses in combat (while they do call upon some, this sort of thing is what rituals were designed for.) But these guys do have powers that channel the powers of deceased spirits to both debilitate their foes and enhance their allies. Where a cleric magically restores life through faith, the necromancer can close wounds by simply not letting an allie's life force leave, and paying for the difference in cost with the mortality of his enemies.
Controller- "Witch": While this class does posess the "shadow evocation" and illusion (at-will/encounter powers) of the Shadowcaster, she beats the shadowcaster both in name-awesomeness, and in verity of skills. This class also possesses the powerful ability to put the dominated condition on enemies, as well as dailly powers that "summon" creatures to the field of combat for some time. A true member of this class knows that the creatures brought to the field are not real, but simply weaved of shadow.
Actually, I think the Beguiler might get swallowed by the Illusionist. Some of the utility skills available to an illusionist could involve trickery and stealth using illusions, and they might end up getting some 'thief-like' skills like Stealth, Thievery, and Bluff (if one of their stats is CHA). After all, not all "sneaky" classes must necessarily fit the Striker role.
I can see a more undead-oriented Shadow Striker to complement the Necromancer, though; while the latter seeks to control undead, the former takes on the traits of the undead. This class might work like a more melee-oriented Warlock, with abilities that drain health from enemies like vampiric touch. Of course, they might end up making close-range pacts for the Warlock with similar flavor.
Actually, I think the Beguiler might get swallowed by the Illusionist. Some of the utility skills available to an illusionist could involve trickery and stealth using illusions, and they might end up getting some 'thief-like' skills like Stealth, Thievery, and Bluff (if one of their stats is CHA). After all, not all "sneaky" classes must necessarily fit the Striker role.
I can see a more undead-oriented Shadow Striker to complement the Necromancer, though; while the latter seeks to control undead, the former takes on the traits of the undead. This class might work like a more melee-oriented Warlock, with abilities that drain health from enemies like vampiric touch. Of course, they might end up making close-range pacts for the Warlock with similar flavor.
I might have taken that into account if I considered Illusionist to be its-own-class worthy. An illusionist is someone who uses illusions, but everyone in the Shadow power source should use illusions, and even non-shadow characters use them. The theme of deception that illusionist powers posess would be best bundled, in my opinion, with either a class that could take advantage of the illusion to deal lethal damage, or that would use illusion to make synergy with its other hindering abilities (such as mind control, defense, or fear). I hope that both happen, and thus I showcased the possibilities of "Beguiler" and "Witch," and to a degree in "Black Knight."
tl;dr: I feel Beguiler, and other classes, should eat the Illusionist, as illusion can help a member of any party role.
Think Palidin. Defender that can be a second-rate leader if necessary. Necromancer will be a controller that is a second-rate leader if necessary also.
Illusionist/beguiler = striker
Blackguard/deathknight = defender
There might not be a leader class for the shadow power souce. Honestly the only one that would come close is some anatomist/necromancer. But it feels a bit forced. They may only have 2 to 3 classes for this power source.
I think that a Necromancer as a summoner is no-good. There are already rituals for creating undead (at least, according to fluff there is), and if a character did raise undead in combat, shouldn't it be by using the dead on the battle field? Since that is a condition that is not always available, to make that the class'es sole role would be folly. Therefore, wouldn't it make sense for that the be the "secondary" role of the controller, and make the primary role something else that also ties into the theme.
Look at the ranger, has an animal companian to assist in his flanking, scouting and otherwise somewhat aggressive attack style. Works well with a striker.
Cleric gets generally unmoving spirits that guard and provide strong structures to retreat to if necessary. Def. solid for a leader (not a defender though because they like to be the guardians.)
Necromancers get weaker/cheaper/more expendable creatures that he has stumble into the mix to buy time while he pumps dread into his foes. He seeks to overwhelm, weaken, and surely would favor offense over defense. This by definition is a controller.
From a role-playing perspective, I think a necromancer could be a leader like anybody else. His powers I would say focus more on undead creations and inflicting fear then boosting allies.
Don't you guys who think the Necromancer will be a controller think it is a bit conceited to think that he can summon undead? He raises undead, not summon them!
I think that a Necromancer as a summoner is no-good. There are already rituals for creating undead (at least, according to fluff there is), and if a character did raise undead in combat, shouldn't it be by using the dead on the battle field? Since that is a condition that is not always available, to make that the class'es sole role would be folly. Therefore, wouldn't it make sense for that the be the "secondary" role of the controller, and make the primary role something else that also ties into the theme.
Ah, but you assume that the only way for a necromancer to fight is through the use of undead. The process of necromancy as it was described at some point before the release of 4th edition(I want to say it was in the article they talked about the new zombies) leaves so many more creative ways for the necromancer to fight. Off the top of my head, the most obvious method is to simply throw raw necrotic energy at an enemy. That would freaking sting no matter who you are. Then we can move into some more interesting ideas.
As I recall the process of creating an undead is based off of putting necrotic energy in the part of the body which in a living creature houses the soul. So in theory, what do you suppose would happen were someone to focus a large amount of energy in said location of a living creature? I imagine that depending on the amount, you could get anywhere from temporary partial control, disabling the monster, or even temporary complete control as the soul tries to push the necrotic energy away.There is more to necromancy than just bringing the dead back to life!:D
-=Edit=-
From a role-playing perspective, I think a necromancer could be a leader like anybody else. His powers I would say focus more on undead creations and inflicting fear then boosting allies.
Ummm focusing more on fear(aka debuffing enemies) then on buffing allies would make it a controller not a leader.
But creating undead will be an important part...to provide at least some seperation from all the other controllers that will be out there.
I think you could have create undead be a ritual, which costs $ and healing surges.
Def. be balanced, and you could have other class features...at least that is what I am doing with my necromancer. (....re-animator paragon path so much fun in play testing.)
Originally Posted by hellgrammite00
From a role-playing perspective, I think a necromancer could be a leader like anybody else. His powers I would say focus more on undead creations and inflicting fear then boosting allies.
*edit I meant he could be a leader from a role-playing standpoint. The latter part was suppossed to be defending his controller nature.
Possibly "Target spends a healing surge and gains Temporary HP equal to the target's bloodied value + your int mod" twice/three times per encounter. (edited)
Ranadiel- I assume no such thing! :D I feel that a necromancer should be manipulating energies that pertain to the dead, and use them in various ways. For instance, necromancers are looked down upon and feared because they twist life away from its natural roots, right? What if instead of creating new kinds of undead, a PC necromancer gave his allies strange abilities that resembled that of an undead creation? Necromancer powers like this might cause bones to grow in the target rapidly, and bust forth from the skin to increase defenses. Or perhaps they allow the target's internal bone structure to be stretchable, giving reach on their next melee attack. Instead of healing an ally, the necromancer conjures stitches and false flesh to close wounds.
That's not to say similar powers don't work offensively though; a spell that shatters bones, or makes them grow out of control, would be very useful, especially if allies are going to engage that enemy further. I used bones in my example, but similar ideas can be worked with flesh, blood, or obviously necrotic and poisonous energies.
Anubis_Reynard- I LOVE IT!!!! Might be better suited as a daily utility power for the Illusionist though; that way it works no matter what role it gets!
As for necromancer, try this for a class feature:
Raise the Dead: whenever you kill a foe with a power that uses the NEcrotic keyword, you may spend a minor action. If you do, raise [undead] in that square. (use rules for ranger movents, minion-level attacks, but there are powers that say "all undead get an attack")
As for necromancer, try this for a class feature:
Raise the Dead: whenever you kill a foe with a power that uses the NEcrotic keyword, you may spend a minor action. If you do, raise [undead] in that square. (use rules for ranger movents, minion-level attacks, but there are powers that say "all undead get an attack")
I was thinking something similar:
But for comparison sake... How would you make False Life different from Cleric/Warlord's Healing/Inspiring Word (surge +d6), Bard' Majestic Word (surge + cha and shift), or Artificer' Healing Infusion (revised to "spend a surge during a short rest, and heal a target surge +X")
I've already shown how I'd make the Illusionist's Illusion of Grandure... Double effectiveness, but all temp HP, so it can't help people who were actually hurt.
This power would remove the need for actual summoning on the class's part (which might be considered broken) or AoE's described as "summoning undead." Give the class a "False Life" healing class feature (unless the name is already used in 4e), and then pack the class with a bunch of powers that channel poison and necrotic energies, allong with some "magical Frankenstien" powers, and BOOM! You get a Necromancer that is a Shadow Leader.
Actually, there could be a number of undead-oriented powers at a Necromancer's disposal.
A 'Create Undead' class feature, in my view, would raise creatures that the necromancer kills (with necrotic powers) as generic Undead Minions (zombies or skeletons). These creatures would only be able to perform a basic attack on adjacent enemies (its strength would depend on the necromancer's level), and the necromancer would need to use a minor action to move them around the battlefield. This power would last until the end of the encounter, when the raised minions would crumple into dust.
There might be an upper limit on the number of minions that can be raised (perhaps equal to the necromancer's INT or CHA modifier + 1) to avoid too much bookkeeping. The power mentioned above might be good as a 'domination'-type power usable on a single powerful minion. If the minion keeps its abilities, maybe the necromancer will have the option to spend a healing surge to keep it until the end of the next encounter.
Also, it might be interesting to see a few other powers that interact with enemy corpses (such as a Diablo-style corpse explosion spell, or a death knell-style power that drains temp HP from them).
I think the create undead should be a ritual.
You spend money and healing surges to gain an undead creature. It has normal attacks and defenses, but very little hit points (maybe even a minion.)
Whereabouts a ranger may never have his animal campanion die, a Necromancer loses at least one minion a day, if not an encounter. The necromancer can only have one animated at a time however.
If you do it this way, then all it becomes is a decent ritual. But not enough to be the only class feature like the beastmaster ranger.
Beguiler/illusionist would make a very good shadow version of a rogue.
Striker all the way.
But for comparison sake... How would you make False Life different from Cleric/Warlord's Healing/Inspiring Word (surge +d6), Bard' Majestic Word (surge + cha and shift), or Artificer' Healing Infusion (revised to "spend a surge during a short rest, and heal a target surge +X")
Well, firstly, the target would be able to expend a healing surge. The target would recieve a number of temporary HP = cleric bonus healing + some number that scales with level. At the end of the encounter, instead of losing the temp HP, the temp HP would turn into healing. "False Life" might not be the best name for it (I used it because it holds tradition in D&D). Anyway, the mechanics in this way show that what the necromancer is doing is replacing a wound with a sort of reanimated-flesh-and-stitching bandaid that stops bleeding, but doesn't become compatible with the body until it has had time to adapt (at which point it would meld with the skin.)
look at the page 14 of the Races and Classes preview book. There is an entry called “Power Sources” written by Mike Mearls and at the end of this text he mentions the Hexblade and the Wu Jen as having different and new power sources.
In his words (pg 15 from Races and Classes):
“A class like the wu jen or the hexblade might use a completely new and different type of magic, allowing us to reinvent the ground rules rather than use what has come before. Since those clearly use magic in a different manner when compared to a wizard, we shelve them under a new power source, build a system of magic that works for their needs, and create spells tuned to them rather them simple use the 3E wizard/sorcerer spell list.”
With all the info we already have at this point we can say that hexblade will probably be a shadow class.
So, aside from making the Battlerager's ability useless, how is it effectivey different from the cleric?
Well, I might have said "those" temporary HP useless, but I think it would be within reason to allow the target to regain any temp HP as healing at the point where temp HP would normally disappear. The "big picture" differences, in this scenario, would be this:
- Any class that gains higher temporary HP than the value the False Life gives them would restore that amount. This fits with the flavor because the necromancer twists life from its natural roots, and it still remains sustainable.
- False Life is only really good on an ally once, because the maximum healing potential would be diminished if used twice. This fits with the flavor because two flesh/stitch bandaids might not be healthy to put on at once.
I could see a simpler approach working for, say, a Ki leader.
Class ability: All temporary HP granted by this class stacks with existing Temp HP.
Let Falsehood becomes Truth: The target may spend a healing surge. If they do, the target loses all Temp HP, and heals an equal amount.
Some of you astound me... Does the word Beguiler evoke thoughts of a heavy damage dealer? It sure doesn't to me...
Beguiler evokes thoughts of stealth, trickery, and moving thus uninhibited. Every class in 4e deals damage, and nothing says that mental assaults like illusions can't deal psychic damage.
words like "Shadowcaster" and "Hexblade" are... well, compound words, and not much different from two-word class names, which WotC has declared they will not use in 4e (so I have heard).
You mean like 'warlord' and 'swordmage'?
You mean like 'warlord' and 'swordmage'?
Yes, like swordmage, but not like warlord. I'm not happy about swordmage, because it is a compound word created explicitly to become a class's name. But I think Warlord is perfectly justified, since it is a compound word already in the vernacular.
You could equally argue that Shadowcaster and Hexblade are equally in the D+D vernacular, after their 3.x appearences.
One could indeed argue that... But in that event, I would counterargue! *Dislikes both names.*
Shadowcaster is a name I have the same problems with as the name Psion. Its like naming a magic user Arcanist, or Illusionist.... Its like "Thank you for reminding me what your power source is..." (In the case of illusionist, its not so much a power source so much as a power type. An illusionis class would be like making a pyromancer class; its OK to focus a character into that range, but it is a bit contrived to make an entire class who's powers ALL use that keyword.)
Yes, like swordmage, but not like warlord. I'm not happy about swordmage, because it is a compound word created explicitly to become a class's name. But I think Warlord is perfectly justified, since it is a compound word already in the vernacular.
My point is that your statement that WotC won't use compound words for classes is clearly wrong.
I don't know for sure if there will be a shadow powered Hexblade, but I suspect there will be. There's a lot of room there for a non-flashy caster. The swordmage is all elemental damage. There's a lot of room with the cursing and non flashy stuff. Shadow seems a good place for it.
All in all, I think all of these classes will be covered anyways. Even if the name of a class doesn't really come up, the builds themselves could take care of it. Maybe there isn't a class called shadowcaster, but there may be a build for a necromancer(or other class) that is, more or less, a shadowcaster and a shadow caster paragon path might be there to enforce it as you level. This would keep things like the 3.5 samurai from happening(being that it was pretty much just a fighter with less options) and turn those classes that are all too alike into new builds for the class it seems to emulate.
I doubt that the Shadowcaster will be a build for the necromancer. Necromancy is something the shadowcaster dabbles in, as a small subset of a large group of skills that the necromancer thematically shouldn't have.
For the record, these are my predictions.
Shadow Controller: Shadowcaster.
Shadow Striker: Shadowdancer, or, a class which has killed the shadowcaster and taken its stuff. Not the ninja, even if ninjas have shadowy powers, they're ki.
Shadow Defender: Hexblade, or, a class which has killed the hexblade and taken its stuff. Either way it will be mostly new material, because the 3e hexblade didn't have much stuff to take.
Fourth class: I don't know. Not an illusionist, there's not enough meat there. I think that illusions may turn out to be a subset of the skills given to ALL shadow classes, rather than the main purpose of just one shadow class. Maybe a necromancer. Maybe something entirely new.
A death master (which controls undead) has the shadow power source in the dmg, so it would make sense that the necromancer would also be in the shadow power source.
Ah, but you're assuming that there will be a necromancer player character class.
Don't get me wrong. I think that the necromancer has a good chance of being the 4th shadow powered class. I just don't think its a slam dunk, and I REALLY think that its important to remember that shadow existed as a power source BEFORE necromancy got added to it- so I don't think that necromancy (or illusion) will gobble up the shadow power source. I think its likely to be the other way around.
Ah, but you're assuming that there will be a necromancer player character class.
Don't get me wrong. I think that the necromancer has a good chance of being the 4th shadow powered class. I just don't think its a slam dunk, and I REALLY think that its important to remember that shadow existed as a power source BEFORE necromancy got added to it- so I don't think that necromancy (or illusion) will gobble up the shadow power source. I think its likely to be the other way around.
Oh, no, I wasn't saying that necromancers WILL be. Just that if it does, it will be in the shadow power source(most likely)
I agree, necromancy won't take up much of the shadow power source, a small fraction really. Shadow encompasses too many things to be that limited.
Nothing can really confirm anything that I have said. Just hope and speculation.