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Shaman Speculation

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
brotherjgizmo
Dec 01, 2008 15:03:49 Now that we know that weather control is part of the Druid's class feature's. What do you think the Shaman will be like?

I'm thinking that he will be kind of like a reverse barbarian, instead of channeling primal spirits for his own benefit, the Shaman will channel them through his allies thus buffing them.
#2
anubis_reynard
Dec 01, 2008 17:07:05 Doesn't the cover of the PHB2 have a Shaman? With some kind of spirit-companion?
#3
Ragnar_Lodbrok
Dec 01, 2008 19:12:17 I'd guess it'll have a beast companion and summoning powers that are beneficial to allies and detrimental to enemies.
#4
Gerrard-s_Mom
Dec 01, 2008 19:40:51 As the speculated primal leader, we can expect it will get the new totem implement as well, and I would also guess staves, maybe rods? The druid has a few zone powers, but I think the shaman would have more, and that maybe some totems serve to increase the size or duration of zones.
I wouldn't be surprised if the spirit animal thing was some kind of class feature playing off of a power keyword, perhaps even the same beast power that rangers use (we can hope, right?). Maybe a conjuration that doesn't do huge damage, but can set up flanks and give healing and attack bonuses to adjacent characters, while the shaman himself stays off the front lines.
#5
marius4
Dec 02, 2008 1:46:46
Now that we know that weather control is part of the Druid's class feature's. What do you think the Shaman will be like?

I'm thinking that he will be kind of like a reverse barbarian, instead of channeling primal spirits for his own benefit, the Shaman will channel them through his allies thus buffing them.

Yes, this. Interceding with spirits on behalf of allies to grant bonuses and stuff. Maybe a feature to remove conditions in combat or something, and maybe some type of ritual like the bard's song of rest. I wonder how 3e things like spirit sight, turning spirits, and speaking with spirits might translate.
#6
sigil_beguiler
Dec 02, 2008 4:17:25 Another vote for lots of literal spirits being used. I am hoping there is some manner or "riding spirits" with the Shaman. So you can have a spirit ride an ally giving him more strength/stamina to attack more, or if your ally gets OAed the spirit riding him will attack the enemy, etc.

The spirit riding could also be used against enemies. The spirit enters an enemy and begins to feed horrible images into his mind causing him to run away. Begins to control his limbs or make him dizzy, etc

The Shaman could also get some form perhaps of Power based summoning. So it wouldn't be long-term like the Beastmaster, but it be like, "a flock of spirit ravens fly through your enemy tearing chunks of his soul away as they pass through and disappear"... Though this I could also see working with the Warden in the form of like spirit animals that chase enemies toward you, block their path toward a ally, etc. I want a Warden with two spirit dogs on metaphysical leashes :D
#7
brotherjgizmo
Dec 02, 2008 8:46:56 I think that the picture in the cover of PHB 2 is a warden.
#8
sigil_beguiler
Dec 02, 2008 8:52:17
I think that the picture in the cover of PHB 2 is a warden.

That is what I am hoping for, but if it isn't then I hope it is the Shaman. So Warden first for spirit animals and Shaman second in my books.
#9
Tectuktitlay
Dec 02, 2008 16:19:50 It is entirely possible that Shaman will be the spirit companion class, possibly called a spirit-totem. Being a leader, here is my take on it:

A Shaman's spirit companion will not have hit points at all, but instead will be a mobile focal point for his abilities that cannot be targeted by anyone save the Shaman. Auras pulsing from the spirit, targeting enemies with attacks or debuffs from the spirit, throwing healing surges and buffs out from the spirit, and so on, will be the meat and potatoes of the Shaman. Instead of staff and totem implements like the Druid, Shamans might very well get only totems.
#10
brotherjgizmo
Dec 02, 2008 17:56:59 Yeah... but I just don't think animal-spirits attacking people when I think Shaman. When I think Shaman I think about an old guy with his face painted mixing up potions and brews that will make the evil spirits exit the body (saves), make you stronger (buff), makes curses for your enemies or places protection over your body (debuffs for opponents, maybe his debuffs will only occur If an opponent attacks the PC).

Warden, seeing the cover of the PHBII, I think will be spirit summoner having his friends chase enemies down or pinning them in place. (This means that the Warden could very well be a Striker (or if the trends continues, and speculation of his defender nature is right, one of his builds will be defender/striker)
#11
Tectuktitlay
Dec 02, 2008 18:31:14 Heh, who said anything about the spirit actually attacking anyone? I see it as a SPIRIT, being ephemeral in nature, and not a true companion per se. Rather, it is your totem spirit. If is linked to you. You see through its eyes, hear through its ears, speak through it. It cannot be physically harmed, nor can it physically harm others. Instead, you can either cast your spells from yourself, or through your spirit companion, using either as the point of reference. You send it out, and it extends the range, line of sight, and line of effect of your abilities. It focuses your will in more passive ways, not by actively melee attacking your opponents like a beast does.

On the other hand, having the Warden simply be yet another Beast Master Ranger, but with a spirit animal instead...dull, and far too similar for my tastes.
#12
brotherjgizmo
Dec 02, 2008 20:15:23 Well, we already have the tempest an TW Ranger and they are different in execution. Either way, I don't think the Warden will just be a reflavored ranger. I'm just thinking that the warden would instead act through summoned spirits herding people.

If the Druid's controller attacks are "if you move you die". The warden's could be "If you attack anything but me, you die". I don't know how to explain it but I could see it working that way.

Maybe an example could be "You summon to spirit wolves that surround your opponent and attack him whenever he moves away from you."
#13
MusicOfCreation
Dec 03, 2008 20:28:56 As long as I can heal, shoot lightning bolts, and turn into a wolf, than I'll be happy.
#14
Duskweaver
Dec 04, 2008 3:54:31
As long as I can heal, shoot lightning bolts, and turn into a wolf, than I'll be happy.

But that's not a shaman. That's a druid multiclassed into cleric... ;)
#15
renchard
Dec 04, 2008 7:41:38
As long as I can heal, shoot lightning bolts, and turn into a wolf, than I'll be happy.

And dual-wield, of course.
#16
marius4
Dec 05, 2008 20:23:35 I'm trying to get a more nuanced idea of what direction the shaman is likely to go in...flavor-wise, at least. Apparently they might be a good fit for FR's witches of Rashemen (hathran) afterall.
I *think* Rashemen works better if the warriors are barbarians and the hathrans are shamans. (The berserker lodges just scream primal power source to me.) But you could also make an argument that hathrans are really arcane casters first, in which case a fey tie might be a little more appropriate for them. Ultimately the notion of a primal power source is tech we simply didn't have in 2e or 3e, and it might be a better way of looking at Rashemen.

Any thoughts on whether the shaman class will be able to represent shugenja? Do you think it will not be "elemental" or "civilized" enough? How about the shaman being able to represent Kitsu sodan-senzo??
#17
askanipsion
Dec 05, 2008 21:10:33 I am making a Witch for an upcoming campaign so looking forward to the Shaman....in the meantime I will be using the druid since I want a nature/primal caster.
#18
ausolion
Dec 08, 2008 13:29:42 I would like to see some form of spirit channeling in the shaman. So that he could channel a spirit through himself or an ally and gain a benefit that befits the spirit channeled. If the character is channeling a wolf, he can add a trip effect to ghis attacks or poison if they channel a serpent spirit. Later on you could channel the spirits of other races to gain benefits that usualy only other races would get. Level 30 could include channeling the spirits of dragons that grant some temporary hp and a powerful breath weapon attack.

Healing is essential to any leader, so the shaman willl definitely heal. I can see him putting out totems as well, like World of warcraft, the grant zones of benefits or defense(though I don't really like that idea and d&d should be original). I really just hope to see the shaman as a back of the party caster, alongside the wizard, who grants primal boons tp his allies and throws out zones of protection and dabbles in ranged attacks and vexes. I believe that they will have some ghealing aura utilities as well.
#19
cintain
Dec 08, 2008 13:31:09 I actually hope the shaman will share some of the weather-magic flavour. I envision shamans as being capable of playing with the weather. I am also particularly looking forward to seeing what kinds of healing powers he will have which can be used in combat, and how these will differ from the other leaders in the game to reflect the primal aspect. My number one hope is that the shaman will be equiparable with the cleric as a healer.

I think that it would be cool if the shaman some-flavour-how has to "pay back" his spirit allies for the favours he asks; these favours should include protecting allies by accompanying them into battle and giving them attack bonuses, and ways of gaining tactical advantage, such as by flying and making "unlucky events" befall his enemies (tripping over, dropping weapons, and suchlikes).

Dunno about the spirit companions... whenever I read any comments about them, I tend to think along the lines of the power "Illusory Ambush" from Dragon 364. I hope it isn't anything too complicated. I think that spirits should be felt through their effects rather than as actual "ghostly" presences in the battlefield, but either one is cool.

The shaman is the number one reason for my excitement over PHB2... Can't wait 'till March.

C
#20
MusicOfCreation
Dec 08, 2008 16:09:45
Healing is essential to any leader, so the shaman willl definitely heal. I can see him putting out totems as well, like World of warcraft, the grant zones of benefits or defense(though I don't really like that idea and d&d should be original). I really just hope to see the shaman as a back of the party caster, alongside the wizard, who grants primal boons tp his allies and throws out zones of protection and dabbles in ranged attacks and vexes. I believe that they will have some ghealing aura utilities as well.

Maybe the Shaman can finally be to casters what the Warlord is to melee. I'd definitely like to see Shaman as a leader with striker secondary(or maybe controller).
#21
ausolion
Dec 08, 2008 17:32:02
I actually hope the shaman will share some of the weather-magic flavour. I envision shamans as being capable of playing with the weather. I am also particularly looking forward to seeing what kinds of healing powers he will have which can be used in combat, and how these will differ from the other leaders in the game to reflect the primal aspect. My number one hope is that the shaman will be equiparable with the cleric as a healer.

Dunno about the spirit companions... whenever I read any comments about them, I tend to think along the lines of the power "Illusory Ambush" from Dragon 364. I hope it isn't anything too complicated. I think that spirits should be felt through their effects rather than as actual "ghostly" presences in the battlefield, but either one is cool.

The shaman is the number one reason for my excitement over PHB2... Can't wait 'till March.

C

Oh, I agree on the weather magic, that's a given. I fully expect him to be able to bend the wind around his allies to deflect incoming ranged attacks and creating zones of grabbing thorny vines that his allies are safe in and his enemies fear. The shaman is definitely my greatest source of excitement for phb2.
#22
Ragnar_Lodbrok
Dec 21, 2008 17:59:17 Hmm, this "spirit companion" idea certainly seems more fitting with the primal flavor than a "beast companion". Oh, and it looks like the shaman preview is gonna be in February.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 brotherjgizmo Dec 01, 2008 15:03:49	Now that we know that weather control is part of the Druid's class feature's. What do you think the Shaman will be like? I'm thinking that he will be kind of like a reverse barbarian, instead of channeling primal spirits for his own benefit, the Shaman will channel them through his allies thus buffing them.
#2 anubis_reynard Dec 01, 2008 17:07:05	Doesn't the cover of the PHB2 have a Shaman? With some kind of spirit-companion?
#3 Ragnar_Lodbrok Dec 01, 2008 19:12:17	I'd guess it'll have a beast companion and summoning powers that are beneficial to allies and detrimental to enemies.
#4 Gerrard-s_Mom Dec 01, 2008 19:40:51	As the speculated primal leader, we can expect it will get the new totem implement as well, and I would also guess staves, maybe rods? The druid has a few zone powers, but I think the shaman would have more, and that maybe some totems serve to increase the size or duration of zones. I wouldn't be surprised if the spirit animal thing was some kind of class feature playing off of a power keyword, perhaps even the same beast power that rangers use (we can hope, right?). Maybe a conjuration that doesn't do huge damage, but can set up flanks and give healing and attack bonuses to adjacent characters, while the shaman himself stays off the front lines.
#5 marius4 Dec 02, 2008 1:46:46	Now that we know that weather control is part of the Druid's class feature's. What do you think the Shaman will be like? I'm thinking that he will be kind of like a reverse barbarian, instead of channeling primal spirits for his own benefit, the Shaman will channel them through his allies thus buffing them. Yes, this. Interceding with spirits on behalf of allies to grant bonuses and stuff. Maybe a feature to remove conditions in combat or something, and maybe some type of ritual like the bard's song of rest. I wonder how 3e things like spirit sight, turning spirits, and speaking with spirits might translate.
#6 sigil_beguiler Dec 02, 2008 4:17:25	Another vote for lots of literal spirits being used. I am hoping there is some manner or "riding spirits" with the Shaman. So you can have a spirit ride an ally giving him more strength/stamina to attack more, or if your ally gets OAed the spirit riding him will attack the enemy, etc. The spirit riding could also be used against enemies. The spirit enters an enemy and begins to feed horrible images into his mind causing him to run away. Begins to control his limbs or make him dizzy, etc The Shaman could also get some form perhaps of Power based summoning. So it wouldn't be long-term like the Beastmaster, but it be like, "a flock of spirit ravens fly through your enemy tearing chunks of his soul away as they pass through and disappear"... Though this I could also see working with the Warden in the form of like spirit animals that chase enemies toward you, block their path toward a ally, etc. I want a Warden with two spirit dogs on metaphysical leashes :D
#7 brotherjgizmo Dec 02, 2008 8:46:56	I think that the picture in the cover of PHB 2 is a warden.
#8 sigil_beguiler Dec 02, 2008 8:52:17	I think that the picture in the cover of PHB 2 is a warden. That is what I am hoping for, but if it isn't then I hope it is the Shaman. So Warden first for spirit animals and Shaman second in my books.
#9 Tectuktitlay Dec 02, 2008 16:19:50	It is entirely possible that Shaman will be the spirit companion class, possibly called a spirit-totem. Being a leader, here is my take on it: A Shaman's spirit companion will not have hit points at all, but instead will be a mobile focal point for his abilities that cannot be targeted by anyone save the Shaman. Auras pulsing from the spirit, targeting enemies with attacks or debuffs from the spirit, throwing healing surges and buffs out from the spirit, and so on, will be the meat and potatoes of the Shaman. Instead of staff and totem implements like the Druid, Shamans might very well get only totems.
#10 brotherjgizmo Dec 02, 2008 17:56:59	Yeah... but I just don't think animal-spirits attacking people when I think Shaman. When I think Shaman I think about an old guy with his face painted mixing up potions and brews that will make the evil spirits exit the body (saves), make you stronger (buff), makes curses for your enemies or places protection over your body (debuffs for opponents, maybe his debuffs will only occur If an opponent attacks the PC). Warden, seeing the cover of the PHBII, I think will be spirit summoner having his friends chase enemies down or pinning them in place. (This means that the Warden could very well be a Striker (or if the trends continues, and speculation of his defender nature is right, one of his builds will be defender/striker)
#11 Tectuktitlay Dec 02, 2008 18:31:14	Heh, who said anything about the spirit actually attacking anyone? I see it as a SPIRIT, being ephemeral in nature, and not a true companion per se. Rather, it is your totem spirit. If is linked to you. You see through its eyes, hear through its ears, speak through it. It cannot be physically harmed, nor can it physically harm others. Instead, you can either cast your spells from yourself, or through your spirit companion, using either as the point of reference. You send it out, and it extends the range, line of sight, and line of effect of your abilities. It focuses your will in more passive ways, not by actively melee attacking your opponents like a beast does. On the other hand, having the Warden simply be yet another Beast Master Ranger, but with a spirit animal instead...dull, and far too similar for my tastes.
#12 brotherjgizmo Dec 02, 2008 20:15:23	Well, we already have the tempest an TW Ranger and they are different in execution. Either way, I don't think the Warden will just be a reflavored ranger. I'm just thinking that the warden would instead act through summoned spirits herding people. If the Druid's controller attacks are "if you move you die". The warden's could be "If you attack anything but me, you die". I don't know how to explain it but I could see it working that way. Maybe an example could be "You summon to spirit wolves that surround your opponent and attack him whenever he moves away from you."
#13 MusicOfCreation Dec 03, 2008 20:28:56	As long as I can heal, shoot lightning bolts, and turn into a wolf, than I'll be happy.
#14 Duskweaver Dec 04, 2008 3:54:31	As long as I can heal, shoot lightning bolts, and turn into a wolf, than I'll be happy. But that's not a shaman. That's a druid multiclassed into cleric... ;)
#15 renchard Dec 04, 2008 7:41:38	As long as I can heal, shoot lightning bolts, and turn into a wolf, than I'll be happy. And dual-wield, of course.
#16 marius4 Dec 05, 2008 20:23:35	I'm trying to get a more nuanced idea of what direction the shaman is likely to go in...flavor-wise, at least. Apparently they might be a good fit for FR's witches of Rashemen (hathran) afterall. I think Rashemen works better if the warriors are barbarians and the hathrans are shamans. (The berserker lodges just scream primal power source to me.) But you could also make an argument that hathrans are really arcane casters first, in which case a fey tie might be a little more appropriate for them. Ultimately the notion of a primal power source is tech we simply didn't have in 2e or 3e, and it might be a better way of looking at Rashemen. Any thoughts on whether the shaman class will be able to represent shugenja? Do you think it will not be "elemental" or "civilized" enough? How about the shaman being able to represent Kitsu sodan-senzo??
#17 askanipsion Dec 05, 2008 21:10:33	I am making a Witch for an upcoming campaign so looking forward to the Shaman....in the meantime I will be using the druid since I want a nature/primal caster.
#18 ausolion Dec 08, 2008 13:29:42	I would like to see some form of spirit channeling in the shaman. So that he could channel a spirit through himself or an ally and gain a benefit that befits the spirit channeled. If the character is channeling a wolf, he can add a trip effect to ghis attacks or poison if they channel a serpent spirit. Later on you could channel the spirits of other races to gain benefits that usualy only other races would get. Level 30 could include channeling the spirits of dragons that grant some temporary hp and a powerful breath weapon attack. Healing is essential to any leader, so the shaman willl definitely heal. I can see him putting out totems as well, like World of warcraft, the grant zones of benefits or defense(though I don't really like that idea and d&d should be original). I really just hope to see the shaman as a back of the party caster, alongside the wizard, who grants primal boons tp his allies and throws out zones of protection and dabbles in ranged attacks and vexes. I believe that they will have some ghealing aura utilities as well.
#19 cintain Dec 08, 2008 13:31:09	I actually hope the shaman will share some of the weather-magic flavour. I envision shamans as being capable of playing with the weather. I am also particularly looking forward to seeing what kinds of healing powers he will have which can be used in combat, and how these will differ from the other leaders in the game to reflect the primal aspect. My number one hope is that the shaman will be equiparable with the cleric as a healer. I think that it would be cool if the shaman some-flavour-how has to "pay back" his spirit allies for the favours he asks; these favours should include protecting allies by accompanying them into battle and giving them attack bonuses, and ways of gaining tactical advantage, such as by flying and making "unlucky events" befall his enemies (tripping over, dropping weapons, and suchlikes). Dunno about the spirit companions... whenever I read any comments about them, I tend to think along the lines of the power "Illusory Ambush" from Dragon 364. I hope it isn't anything too complicated. I think that spirits should be felt through their effects rather than as actual "ghostly" presences in the battlefield, but either one is cool. The shaman is the number one reason for my excitement over PHB2... Can't wait 'till March. C
#20 MusicOfCreation Dec 08, 2008 16:09:45	Healing is essential to any leader, so the shaman willl definitely heal. I can see him putting out totems as well, like World of warcraft, the grant zones of benefits or defense(though I don't really like that idea and d&d should be original). I really just hope to see the shaman as a back of the party caster, alongside the wizard, who grants primal boons tp his allies and throws out zones of protection and dabbles in ranged attacks and vexes. I believe that they will have some ghealing aura utilities as well. Maybe the Shaman can finally be to casters what the Warlord is to melee. I'd definitely like to see Shaman as a leader with striker secondary(or maybe controller).
#21 ausolion Dec 08, 2008 17:32:02	I actually hope the shaman will share some of the weather-magic flavour. I envision shamans as being capable of playing with the weather. I am also particularly looking forward to seeing what kinds of healing powers he will have which can be used in combat, and how these will differ from the other leaders in the game to reflect the primal aspect. My number one hope is that the shaman will be equiparable with the cleric as a healer. Dunno about the spirit companions... whenever I read any comments about them, I tend to think along the lines of the power "Illusory Ambush" from Dragon 364. I hope it isn't anything too complicated. I think that spirits should be felt through their effects rather than as actual "ghostly" presences in the battlefield, but either one is cool. The shaman is the number one reason for my excitement over PHB2... Can't wait 'till March. C Oh, I agree on the weather magic, that's a given. I fully expect him to be able to bend the wind around his allies to deflect incoming ranged attacks and creating zones of grabbing thorny vines that his allies are safe in and his enemies fear. The shaman is definitely my greatest source of excitement for phb2.
#22 Ragnar_Lodbrok Dec 21, 2008 17:59:17	Hmm, this "spirit companion" idea certainly seems more fitting with the primal flavor than a "beast companion". Oh, and it looks like the shaman preview is gonna be in February.