http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dudc/20090121
Snips:
"Nordil (Chris) is a dwarf shaman with a shaggy bear spirit companion named Nugget."(...)
(...)"As they traveled northward, Nordil woke up one morning with a blue spirit bear peering down at him, scaring him half to death. He doesn't know why Nugget has attached himself to Nordil, but he's beginning to explore the power that his spirit companion offers."(...)
Just to let everyone know
I hope, the spirit doesn't have to be a animal and is more like Druid's Wild-Shape where you can choose for it to look like whatever.
-Druid: Wildshape and weather spells.
-Shaman: Healing and animal companion.
-Warden: Hardy defender, melee action.
Really hoping for a preview as well. 
I want to see how the relationship with a spirit(s) is expressed mechanically. I also really want to see the different flavor facets of the shaman and what types of characters they can embody.
Move Action - Nuggets walks towards the fighter
Standard Action - The shaman orders Nugget to heal the fighter, Nugget will use his ghostly powers to channel the primal healing abilities of the fighter.
Would be nice
I think the Shaman will order his per arround and will have powers that originate at the spirits position. So a Shamans healing word will look like this :
Move Action - Nuggets walks towards the fighter
Standard Action - The shaman orders Nugget to heal the fighter, Nugget will use his ghostly powers to channel the primal healing abilities of the fighter.
Would be nice
This is just wild, unsupported speculation, right?
you could re-flavor the second to be the first. If it's anything like the beast-master ranger wouldn't it take too much space with just the stats for the different animal groups and then the 'human' groups?
Well you could reflavor a sword and board fighter into a two-handed weapon fighter that blocks alot. Or you could reflavor a wand wizard to use an orb like a wand. That hardly keeps those from being the same build.
AWESOME! I really hope they give a preview of the class next month.
Totally. Avenger, too, and we'll have seen a preview of everybody!
Well you could reflavor a sword and board fighter into a two-handed weapon fighter that blocks alot. Or you could reflavor a wand wizard to use an orb like a wand. That hardly keeps those from being the same build.
Whoa man no need to be so snarly
Whoa man no need to be so snarly
My apologies, I was only operating on two hours of sleep yesterday. I didn't notice any differences at the time, but I think I might have been a bit ruder than I meant to be as a result.
However my point remains that pretty much any of the build options available, with perhaps the exception of the bestmaster ranger(and honsestly that just takes more work), can be reflavored into any of the other build options for that class. So the ability to reflavor or condensce builds together should hardly be the criteria by which build ideas are judged.
Posted by brotherjgizmo:
And they might make the other build a potion-making, powder spreading 'witch-doctor' kind of build.
That'd be nice. I'm hoping to rebuild my Barbarian/Cleric as a Barbarian/Shaman when PHB2 comes out(since a tribal warrior shaman type guy is pretty much what he is), and animal spirits are really not fitting for him. Thus, I'm hoping that the animal spirit is not an absolutely mandatory class feature--at least not for the multiclass, if nothing else.
I think Praion might be right about Shamans being a healer via their animal companion.
That fits in very well with Confessions... where Shelly DMs a game for New DM who shows up with a Warforged Top Secret R&D Class named Turducken with his pet Pabst. Pabst turns out to have enough healing to throw around that Shelly refers to it as "Seemingly Unlimited."
So...here's a thought.
I think Praion might be right about Shamans being a healer via their animal companion.
That fits in very well with Confessions... where Shelly DMs a game for New DM who shows up with a Warforged Top Secret R&D Class named Turducken with his pet Pabst. Pabst turns out to have enough healing to throw around that Shelly refers to it as "Seemingly Unlimited."
I'm thinking the 'spirit companions' might have some sort of aura ability that infuses nearby allies with their power. For instance, a bear spirit might have the ability to give allies the strength of a bear, providing a bonus to damage rolls to any ally near it.
We're still not sure how exactly the 'totem spirit' will work. It might be a single companion, like the beastmaster ranger has. Or the Shaman's daily powers put the totem spirit into play, where it can attack enemies and provide regeneration and/or other buffs to nearby allies.
I'm going to guess that the Shaman will use Charisma/Dexterity/Constitution as its primary stats (since the Spirit Shaman from 3.5 Ed was CHA-based), or perhaps Constitution/Wisdom/Charisma. Shaman implements will include totems and wands/rods. With the focus on the spirit companion, I don't see them getting very many weapon-based powers.
I think the Shaman will order his per arround and will have powers that originate at the spirits position. So a Shamans healing word will look like this :
Move Action - Nuggets walks towards the fighter
Standard Action - The shaman orders Nugget to heal the fighter, Nugget will use his ghostly powers to channel the primal healing abilities of the fighter.
Would be nice
That doesn't make much sense to me. Don't all the other Leader classes have their Healing Word type power as a Minor Action? Why would they make Shamans use two actions?
That doesn't make much sense to me. Don't all the other Leader classes have their Healing Word type power as a Minor Action? Why would they make Shamans use two actions?
For being able to heal at longer range?
And I would like to point out that every leader we've seen so far has had a 2x/encounter healing power (Cleric's Healing Word, Warlord's Inspiring Word, Bard's Majestic Word. I just hope they don't run out of adjectives for Word.
Well, it looks like we'll know more soon enough. The Feb Ed Calender was released a bit early, and the 2nd gets us a shaman preview.
And I would like to point out that every leader we've seen so far has had a 2x/encounter healing power (Cleric's Healing Word, Warlord's Inspiring Word, Bard's Majestic Word. I just hope they don't run out of adjectives for Word.
I think I'd rename my Bard's Word ****ing Awesome Word. Seriously, though, on the subject of the Words, it's been speculated that Empath would work quite well for the Psionic Power Source Leader, their Word could be Soothing Word.
Well, it looks like we'll know more soon enough. The Feb Ed Calender was released a bit early, and the 2nd gets us a shaman preview.
And I would like to point out that every leader we've seen so far has had a 2x/encounter healing power (Cleric's Healing Word, Warlord's Inspiring Word, Bard's Majestic Word. I just hope they don't run out of adjectives for Word. [emphasis added]
:heehee Maybe the shaman's healing power won't be a "word." I think it would be fine if it worked exactly the same but was called "healing spirit" or something else that bucked the trend.
I think I'd rename my Bard's Word ****ing Awesome Word. Seriously, though, on the subject of the Words, it's been speculated that Empath would work quite well for the Psionic Power Source Leader, their Word could be Soothing Word.
I am eagerly awaiting the Empath as well as the return of a Soothing Word-type power. I hadn't thought of seeing them together...Neat idea! :D
I'm hoping that an epic level Shaman can summon a horde of aggressive spirits to rip apart all enemies in an area, because it'll look awesome.
That doesn't make much sense to me. Don't all the other Leader classes have their Healing Word type power as a Minor Action? Why would they make Shamans use two actions?
Yeah sorry, could be a minor action too. I just thought more about Ranger companion than about the normal mechanic of "X Words".
But nice you agree with me
I just hope it's not too focused on the one spirit pet. Shaman's deal with spirits not a spirits. They are master of spirits and the spirit realms, if it's all one spirit then I'll be upset. That said many shamans or tribes had one totem spirit, which it could be. So they'd still deal with other spirits. I just don't want it to be a one spirit thing.
I imagine you will have one Spirit as a constant companion. But ordinary Powers will involve different spirits.
I imagine you will have one Spirit as a constant companion. But ordinary Powers will involve different spirits.
Could be two Build focusses. One gives you more Spirit powers while the other gives you more power, some powers would give thinks too both of you.
It would be interesting if the spirit would be really insubstitunal. He can't attack without a power, he doesn't offer flanking (but it would be cool if he could). He is more like a totem that can move arround and gives the shaman more reach. Damaging it would be more difficult too...
Mh maybe, i don't know what would be cooler
On the spirit : shaman ratio, I'm sure there will be room for more than one spirit in some form or another.
It seems that the inspiration for the Shaman class came directly from the old AD&D1E Shaman accessory book.
Actually, now that I think of it, it seems that the inspiration for the entire [Primal] power source came directly from the old AD&D1E Shaman accessory book.
Interesting...[/indent]
[indent]Hmm...
It seems that the inspiration for the Shaman class came directly from the old AD&D1E Shaman accessory book.
Actually, now that I think of it, it seems that the inspiration for the entire [Primal] power source came directly from the old AD&D1E Shaman accessory book.
Interesting...[/indent]
I am not familar with that book...caRE to enlighten us???
[indent]
I am not familar with that book...caRE to enlighten us???
I forgot the book even existed, actually.It was an optional accessory that detailed the AD&D1E version of the Shaman class, which was an alternate priest who dealt heavily with spirits, spirit-guides, and related spells.
The entire fluff of the whole book is pretty much the new fluff of the [Primal] power source, with consideration given to a bit of tailoring appropriate for 4E relevance.
I was gifted a whole bunch of 1E books when I was twelve or so (the beginning of my D&D craze), and I remember this accessory being a part of the bundle. Seems I completely forgot, until I stumbled over the [Primal] spirit references for the thousandth time.[/indent]
GMforPowergamers:
[indent]I forgot the book even existed, actually.It was an optional accessory that detailed the AD&D1E version of the Shaman class, which was an alternate priest who dealt heavily with spirits, spirit-guides, and related spells.
The entire fluff of the whole book is pretty much the new fluff of the [Primal] power source, with consideration given to a bit of tailoring appropriate for 4E relevance.
I was gifted a whole bunch of 1E books when I was twelve or so (the beginning of my D&D craze), and I remember this accessory being a part of the bundle. Seems I completely forgot, until I stumbled over the [Primal] spirit references for the thousandth time.[/indent]
That accessory was published in 1995, which makes it mid-2E, not 1E (2E was released in 1989).
That accessory was published in 1995, which makes it mid-2E, not 1E (2E was released in 1989).
Regardless, this class does have hints of that old supplement.
Shamans might have both a "spirit caller" build (DEX/CHA?, focuses on the shaman's totem spirit, secondary defender/striker) and a "witch doctor" build (DEX/WIS?, focuses on calling spirits to curse enemies, secondary controller).
So, the Spirit Companion is going to work on a enemy, and the Shaman causes it to grow a second head and bite an adjacent enemy. The Shaman is closed in by enemies and so his spirit quickly leaves his body to strike out and return, etc.
[indent]
That accessory was published in 1995, which makes it mid-2E, not 1E (2E was released in 1989).
Like I said, I forgot the thing even existed, nevermind what year it was published in.
I must have assumed it was a 1E accessory because it was lumped in with a bunch of 1E books when it was pawned off on me.[/indent]
Ulorian:
[indent]Like I said, I forgot the thing even existed, nevermind what year it was published in.
I must have assumed it was a 1E accessory because it was lumped in with a bunch of 1E books when it was pawned off on me.[/indent]
No worries. I noticed that some folks in this thread who had played in the 1E days (like me) were confused/surprised because we couldn't remember this 1E supplement (there were literally only a handful of books released during the 1E period... I'd have to stop and count, but it had to be less than a dozen... you know someone's going to post a list now!). Just clearing things up for others like me.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k31/maijstral/DDXP09001.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k31/maijstral/DDXP09002.jpg
Hey, why's no one discussing this?
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k31/maijstral/DDXP09001.jpg
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k31/maijstral/DDXP09002.jpg
The powers seem very hard to read, but it seems quite obvious that WIS is the attack-stat, as the character has a +5 to WIS, a +1 implement, and all of her attacks say they are +6. All of the other numbers seem to be five (the added damage to attacks, allies make a saving throw with a +5 power bonus...) which is somewhat confusing. Do implements add their enchantment to your effects? Because that would make sense with INT as a power-stat, since the character's INT mod is +4. My random guess for the other build is CON, since they seem to like CON-casters and the Shaman, I dunno, has to be hardy enough to be possessed by the spirits, but frankly I'm hoping for CHA, because I really like to consider the Shamans as needing to negotiate and placate the spirits more than just straight out commanding them.
Also, the central power of the class is... interesting. While it's cool they can summon/dismiss it as a minor action, and I like the idea of positioning it around the battlefield like a ranger uses his beast companion, it seems really vulnerable. 11 Damage and it dies and you take 6 damage? That would make bringing it into battle really risky. But it's hard to say without know what feats / other powers / class features help it out.
The powers seem very hard to read, but it seems quite obvious that WIS is the attack-stat, as the character has a +5 to WIS, a +1 implement, and all of her attacks say they are +6. All of the other numbers seem to be five (the added damage to attacks, allies make a saving throw with a +5 power bonus...) which is somewhat confusing. Do implements add their enchantment to your effects? Because that would make sense with INT as a power-stat, since the character's INT mod is +4. My random guess for the other build is CON, since they seem to like CON-casters and the Shaman, I dunno, has to be hardy enough to be possessed by the spirits, but frankly I'm hoping for CHA, because I really like to consider the Shamans as needing to negotiate and placate the spirits more than just straight out commanding them.
Also, the central power of the class is... interesting. While it's cool they can summon/dismiss it as a minor action, and I like the idea of positioning it around the battlefield like a ranger uses his beast companion, it seems really vulnerable. 11 Damage and it dies and you take 6 damage? That would make bringing it into battle really risky. But it's hard to say without know what feats / other powers / class features help it out.
Yay!!
Thanks for breaking ground here.On the spirit companion, it says if it takes 11 damage from a single attack it disappears, I think.
Check out the Twin Panthers attack 1. Looks like that confirms our PH2 cover girl as a shaman.
Totems...a new implement or just item?
Yay!!
On the spirit companion, it says if it takes 11 damage from a single attack it disappears, I think.
Check out the Twin Panthers attack 1. Looks like that confirms our PH2 cover girl as a shaman.
Totems...a new implement or just item?
The Deva's equipment lists a +1 summer growth totem, and all of her attacks are at +6, I'd say that's definitely an implement.
And I see that the spirit needs to take 11 damage from a single attack or disappear, but isn't that fairly common outside of the very low heroic levels? Unless maybe that number goes up with the tiers... but still by level 8 or 9, can't enemies do 11+ damage reliably without expending major resources?
edit: here's something else cool about the Shaman - check out how many different defenses their attacks target! By level three we already have a great spread for will, fort, and ref!
Call Spirit Companion Shaman Feature
Your soul reaches out to your spirit friend, which faithfully appears at your side.
At-Will * Conjuration, Primal
Minor Action Close burst 20
Effect: You conjure your spirit companion in an unoccupied square in the burst. The spirit lasts until you fall unconscious or until you dismiss it as a minor action. The spirit occupies 1 square. Enemies cannot move through its space, but allies can. When you take a move action, you can also move the spirit a number of squares equal to your speed.
The spirit can be targeted by melee or ranged attacks, although it lacks hit points. If a single melee or ranged attack deals 11 or more damage on the spirit, the spirit disappears, and you take 6 damage. Otherwise, the spirit is unaffected by the attack.
Spirit's Fangs Shaman Feature
When an enemy drops its guard, your spirit companion leaps on it, claws and fangs bared.
At-Will * Implement, Primal, Spirit
Opportunity Action Melee spirit 1
Trigger: An enemy leaves a square adjacent to your spirit companion without shifting.
Target: The triggering enemy.
Attack: +6 vs. Reflex.
Hit: 1d10 + 5 damage.
Defending Strike Shaman Attack 1
The spirit companion strikes a foe, drawing energy from the enemy and using the energy into a protective shield(?).
At-Will * Implement, Primal, Spirit
Standard Action Melee spirit 1
Target: One creature.
Attack: +6 vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d8 + 5 damage. Until the end of your next turn, you and your allies gian a +1 power bonus while adjacent to your spirit companion.
Stalker's Strike Shaman Attack 1
As your spirit companion claws at your foe, the spirit is filled with predatory(?) fury, becoming a greater threat to your enemies.
At-Will * Implement, Primal, Spirit
Standard Action Melee Spirit 1
Target: One creature.
Attack: +6 vs. Fortitude. If the target is bloodied, you gain a +1 bonus to the attack roll.
Hit: 1d10 + 5 damage. Until the end of your next turn, your spirit companion can flank with you and your allies.
Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes Deva Racial Power
Lifelike(?) memories of your previous lives lend insight to aid you.
ENcouner
No Action(?) Person
Trigger: You make an attack roll, a saving throw, a skill check, or an any(?) check and dislike the result.
Effect: You add 1d8 to the triggering roll.
Healing Spirit Shaman Feature
You call to the spirits on behalf of a wounded ally, healing wounds.
Encounter (Special) * Healing, Primal
Minor Action Close burst 5
Target: You or one ally in burst.
Effect: The target can spend a healing surge. If the target does so, one ally adjacent to your spirit companion other than the target regains 1d6 hit points.
Special: You can use this power twice per encounter, but only once per round.
Twin Panthers Shaman Attack 1
Two panther spirits leap on your foes, and the panthers channel their predatory instincts through your spirit companion as that(?) it approaches nearby enemies.
Encounter * Implement, Ritual
Standard Action Ranged 5
Target: One creature.
Attack: +6 vs. Reflex (+9 against a bloodied target)
Hit: 1d8 + 5 damage. Until the end of your enxt turn, you and your allies have combat advantage when making melee attacks against any enemy adjacent to your spirit companion.
Effect: Make that attack one more time against the same target or a different one.
Bonds of the Clan Shaman Utility 2
You take on a portion of your ally's injury.
Encounter * Primal
Immediate Interrupt Ranged 10
Trigger: An ally within 10 squares of you takes damage.
Target: The triggering ally.
Effect: You and the target each take half of the damage.
Rimefire Spirit Shaman Attack 3
A spirit of ice and flame freezes and burns your foe, and the spirit's energies emanate from your spirit companion, making nearby enemies vulnerate to further attacks.
Encounter * Cold, Fire, Implement, Primal
Standard Action Ranged 5
Target: One creature.
Attack: +6 vs. Will
Hit: 2d6 + 5 cold and fire damage. Until the end of your next turn, any enemy adjacent to your spirit companion gains vulnerable 5 cold and vulnerable 5 fire.
Cleansing Wind of the North Shaman Attack 1
You call on the spirits of the frigid north to bite into your enemies and to carry your allies' ills.
Daily * Cold, Implement, Primal
Standard Action Close blast 5
Target: Each enemy in blast.
Attack: +6 vs. Fortitude.
Hit: 1d10 + 5 cold damage.
Miss: Half damage.
Effect: Each ally in the blast makes a saving throw with a +5 power bonus.
+1 Summer Growth Totem Totem Level 3+
Summer brings growth and the primal energy channeled through this item helps spawn vines that hinder your foes.
Critical: +1d6 damage, and the target is restrained until the end of your next turn.
Power (Daily): Minor Action. Each square within 5 squares of you is difficult terrain for your enemies until the end of your next turn.
And I see that the spirit needs to take 11 damage from a single attack or disappear, but isn't that fairly common outside of the very low heroic levels? Unless maybe that number goes up with the tiers... but still by level 8 or 9, can't enemies do 11+ damage reliably without expending major resources?
1. The 11 damage number probably scales with level. I mean, 11? Its such an odd number that its got to be calculated by something like 10+1/2 level or something.
2. This is actually a very sneaky leader power. Its GOOD that the spirit can be hurt and die. Here's the trick WOTC is pulling- notice that the spirit can only be targeted by melee and ranged attacks? Those are the attacks that only hit one target. Its immune to area of effect attacks. That means that attacking the spirit costs the bad guys an action. If they hit and do less than 11 damage at level 3, they wasted their action completely. If they hit and do more, the spirit goes away and the shaman takes 6 damage. They spent an action that could have dealt 11+ damage to one of the PCs, and instead used it to deal 6 damage to a different PC. Meanwhile the spirit can be summoned anew next round.
The shaman should be encouraging the enemies to attack the spirit, because as long as they do, they're basically dealing half damage to the party.
And I see that the spirit needs to take 11 damage from a single attack or disappear, but isn't that fairly common outside of the very low heroic levels? Unless maybe that number goes up with the tiers... but still by level 8 or 9, can't enemies do 11+ damage reliably without expending major resources
Oh, I think I get it now. The above is true, but the ability to summon your spirit companion is an at-will power and a minor action as well. So you'll be able to do it multiple times, with your spirit companion popping up all over the place even after enemies think they've snuffed it out completely.
Maybe there will be an offensive and a defensive build based on keeping your companion adjacent to enemies or allies, respectively.
1. The 11 damage number probably scales with level. I mean, 11? Its such an odd number that its got to be calculated by something like 10+1/2 level or something.
2. This is actually a very sneaky leader power. Its GOOD that the spirit can be hurt and die. Here's the trick WOTC is pulling- notice that the spirit can only be targeted by melee and ranged attacks? Those are the attacks that only hit one target. Its immune to area of effect attacks. That means that attacking the spirit costs the bad guys an action. If they hit and do less than 11 damage at level 3, they wasted their action completely. If they hit and do more, the spirit goes away and the shaman takes 6 damage. They spent an action that could have dealt 11+ damage to one of the PCs, and instead used it to deal 6 damage to a different PC. Meanwhile the spirit can be summoned anew next round.
The shaman should be encouraging the enemies to attack the spirit, because as long as they do, they're basically dealing half damage to the party.
Oh! Hehe. A much more thorough revelation there. I didn't see that post in time either! :P
1. The 11 damage number probably scales with level. I mean, 11? Its such an odd number that its got to be calculated by something like 10+1/2 level or something.
2. This is actually a very sneaky leader power. Its GOOD that the spirit can be hurt and die. Here's the trick WOTC is pulling- notice that the spirit can only be targeted by melee and ranged attacks? Those are the attacks that only hit one target. Its immune to area of effect attacks. That means that attacking the spirit costs the bad guys an action. If they hit and do less than 11 damage at level 3, they wasted their action completely. If they hit and do more, the spirit goes away and the shaman takes 6 damage. They spent an action that could have dealt 11+ damage to one of the PCs, and instead used it to deal 6 damage to a different PC. Meanwhile the spirit can be summoned anew next round.
The shaman should be encouraging the enemies to attack the spirit, because as long as they do, they're basically dealing half damage to the party.
The spirit companion works well when attacking enemies that are marked by a defender. Since taking the 6 damage sacrifice is a small amount for having an enemy hit by an interrupting attack from a fighter or warden or assault swordmage, or a paladin's divine challenge.
The spirit companion works well when attacking enemies that are marked by a defender. Since taking the 6 damage sacrifice is a small amount for having an enemy hit by an interrupting attack from a fighter or warden or assault swordmage, or a paladin's divine challenge.
Nice insight. Hmmmmmm....can an enemy be marked by more than one ally??
I can't remember.Because it doesn't really belong in the Avenger thread.
Call Spirit Companion Shaman Feature
Your soul reaches out to your spirit friend, which faithfully appears at your side.
......
Thanks for posting all that, btw.
Nice insight. Hmmmmmm....can an enemy be marked by more than one ally??
No, but there are powers the do make exceptions to that rule.
Leaked Shaman and Avenger stuff here! Shamans can summon several spirits and gets powers that lets several spirits make attacks. Shamans create opening with them to lead.
Shamans can summon several spirits and gets powers that lets several spirits make attacks. Shamans create opening with them to lead.
Almost. As far as I can see from the lvl 1-3 preview, a shaman only summons a single spirit: the companion. But most of their other powers have flavor text crediting spirits with the effects, and I'm sure that roleplaying-wise, the shamans themselves will also say it's all spirits doing that crazy stuff.
Almost. As far as I can see from the lvl 1-3 preview, a shaman only summons a single spirit: the companion. But most of their other powers have flavor text crediting spirits with the effects, and I'm sure that roleplaying-wise, the shamans themselves will also say it's all spirits doing that crazy stuff.
It looks to me like it's sorta like some spells summon "temporary spirits" that exist for that attack alone, then go away. Just like your standard Fireball/Acid Blast/Whatever only exists for that one attack. In other words everyone would see the spirit (if that's what your player wants anyways), but only briefly.
It looks to me like it's sorta like some spells summon "temporary spirits" that exist for that attack alone, then go away. Just like your standard Fireball/Acid Blast/Whatever only exists for that one attack. In other words everyone would see the spirit (if that's what your player wants anyways), but only briefly.
In other words... fluff. ;)
Anybody else notice none of his dailies have the spirit keyword?
That's because the Spirit keyword refers to the guardian spirit. All the dailies are area attacks, not performed via the guardian. So even if the fluff states that its spirits doing the damage, that's covered by the Primal keyword.
Primal = spirit(s) of nature.
Things with spirit keyword require you to have a spirit companion out to use them, other powers don't require it. This means that the shaman has some usefulness even without their spirit companion present.
They have 2 builds at least, each with a different type of spirit companion that also decides one of their at-wills. Depending on build it determines their secondary role (defender or striker). Each build also has a different secondary stat.
They suggest one animal for each build/spirit choice but any animal that fits that 'theme' would work. They list bear for defender/protector and panther for striker/stalker.
What concerns me the most is: the spirit needs to take 10 + half level damage to die. That means, in level 30, it dies with a single blow that causes 25 damage (feats aside). I never played epic tier (nor paragon, for that matter), but isn't that damage kinda low? It looks to me that any monster could do it with his basic attack.
What concerns me the most is: the spirit needs to take 10 + half level damage to die. That means, in level 30, it dies with a single blow that causes 25 damage (feats aside). I never played epic tier (nor paragon, for that matter), but isn't that damage kinda low? It looks to me that any monster could do it with his basic attack.
Read the thread. Specifically, post #50 by Cadfan.
To sum up: yes, any blow of 25 damage or more makes the companion wink out. And the Shaman only takes 20 damage, regardless of how much the attack "really" did. Then he brings the companion back with a minor action on his next turn.
What concerns me the most is: the spirit needs to take 10 + half level damage to die. That means, in level 30, it dies with a single blow that causes 25 damage (feats aside). I never played epic tier (nor paragon, for that matter), but isn't that damage kinda low? It looks to me that any monster could do it with his basic attack.
yeah I thought the same thing....I am sure there will be paragon classes or feats to boost the power of the spirit hopefully.
Remember it needs to take this damage from a single melee or ranged attack, which means, aura's and other shiny effects of doom need not apply. Aura's, bursts, blasts all mean nothing, so unlike PCs which might be suffering 20 fire damage per round in an aura, it ignores this damage entirely. Which is a great boon when so many of your powers originate from your spirit companion.
"Aura of doom? Um yeah, you all go have at it, I'll...l um... I'll be with you in spirit... yeah... heheh... Go get em fluffy."
So all in all, I think this is a pretty good number.
Str 13
Con 16
Dex 14
Int 12
Wis 16
Cha 8
Feats: Chain Prof., Light Shield Prof.
Powers: Protector's Strike + Wrath of Winter, didn't get a chance to try Thunder Bear's Warning or Spirit of the Healing Flood
The class definitely feels hurt by spread formations, or so I thought. We only had two fights tonight (was mostly in town RPing, traveling). First fight the party was pretty compact, and I felt more confident I was able to provide my Shamanistic abilities to those who needed it. Worked out very well.
The second fight was a VERY split formation, with the Barb and Wizard taking one side, me and the Prot Fighter the middle, and the Battlerager the other side. Neither of my heals gave the Barb +Con as he was far away but needed it, but it did help the Fighter a bit. Overall, felt a little less effective than the first fight, but we scratched through it.
Anyone else tried it yet?
That's because the Spirit keyword refers to the guardian spirit. All the dailies are area attacks, not performed via the guardian. So even if the fluff states that its spirits doing the damage, that's covered by the Primal keyword.
Primal = spirit(s) of nature.
Well, that wasn't the part that interested me, I know the attacks won't originate from the beast.
I'm intrigued by the fact that the Shaman won't be able to stand far away all of the time, if the trend continues the Shaman's most powerful attacks require he/she moves to more dangerous positions.
Feats: Chain Prof., Light Shield Prof.
Um...don't Shaman start with proficiency in just Cloth and Leather armor? If so, you'd have to take Hide Proficiency first to get to Chain Prof.
EDIT: Wow, nevermind. This is what I get for not reading the Chainmail Proficiency feat closely. I never realized that it says "training with leather or hide armor". Anyway, yeah, it seems as though the Shaman benefits from a very condensed battlefield. Just remember, though, if you need your Spirit Companion to really haul his behind across the battlefield, just minor action dismiss him and minor action summon him somewhere else. Burst 20 range on the summoning is very nice.
Well, that wasn't the part that interested me, I know the attacks won't originate from the beast.
I'm intrigued by the fact that the Shaman won't be able to stand far away all of the time, if the trend continues the Shaman's most powerful attacks require he/she moves to more dangerous positions.
Well then why didn't you say so, instead of nattering about keywords? ;)
Out of the 4 level 1 dailies, one is a ranged attack (only range 5, but still) and two are close attacks with a big radius (5) that have an added effect of buffing your allies. None of these really require the Shaman to be up in the enemies' faces. The last one fits your bill at first glance, since it's a close burst 2, but looking closer we see that it also targets all enemies adjacent to the spirit companion (essentially, a separate close burst 1).
I actually see most of these powers as defensive rather than offensive. They seem like panic buttons the Shaman would push when he's threatened by enemies getting too close.
Of course, there will always be some players who read them as reasons to run into the thick of things and nova, so YMMV.
I really hope there is a no spirit companion shaman build, I really hate the pets (in any form).
It looks like it's not only a build, but it may be what the entire class is based apon.
I hope it is just a build we are seeing, or that they come out with a build that does not have a pet.
I don't have anything against pets, I would just like to play a different kind of shaman.
It looks like it's not only a build, but it may be what the entire class is based apon.
I hope it is just a build we are seeing, or that they come out with a build that does not have a pet.
I don't have anything against pets, I would just like to play a different kind of shaman.
Well you could choose not to summon your spirit companion. You'd just have to avoid taking powers with the spirit keyword since they require your companion to be 'out' to be used. The shaman does seem to be built around the companion's presence though and going without it puts the shaman/party at a disadvantage.
What kind of shaman did you want? A cleric from a primitive culture? Just play a cleric and fluff him to seem more 'primal'. Maybe a warden or druid build might work. Don't restrict yourself into picking class by class name, go for mechanics that fit your character concept and have them refere to themselves however they want in-character.
I don't have anything against pets, I would just like to play a different kind of shaman.
It doesn't HAVE to be a pet - it can be an ancestor spirit or even "fey" spirit of nature that could look like a dryad....doesn't have to be an animal looking spirit.
It doesn't HAVE to be a pet - it can be an ancestor spirit or even "fey" spirit of nature that could look like a dryad....doesn't have to be an animal looking spirit.
I don't want to rely on another creature to be fully capable, not very heroic IMO, whether you call it a pet or not.
I like the idea of summoning or using different spirits to create different effects or to give the shaman different abilities, having one follow me around at my beck & call all day long does not turn my crank though. Ideally I think this would work similiar to the way barbarian rages(dailies) work, call forth a spirit and utilize it until you call another.
Well you could state that each time you summon your Spirit Companion or even each time you use a Power involving your Spirit Companion it is a different spirit that you have called forth.
I suppose, still relying on it all the time though. Not a huge deal I suppose regardless, especially to WotC since I'll still be buying the book probably.
If I have to rewrite/flavour half the class (or more) to make it playable for my games than I will, was just hoping I would have an out of the box option. But since their are 3-4 "builds" coming (including Primal Power) I will hopefully get at least one bone thrown at me.
Thanks for the ideas though.
I suppose, still relying on it all the time though. Not a huge deal I suppose regardless, especially to WotC since I'll still be buying the book probably.
If I have to rewrite/flavour half the class (or more) to make it playable for my games than I will, was just hoping I would have an out of the box option. But since their are 3-4 "builds" coming (including Primal Power) I will hopefully get at least one bone thrown at me.
Thanks for the ideas though.
Well, you could eliminate the spirit companion fluff completely and just say that some of your powers/evocations have two points of origin. You might say this is due to correspondences in the spirit world and the material world. When the spirit and material points of origin match up, things look normal (i.e., power without the spirit keyword). When the two points are slightly off, the power emanates from both you and from the corresponding point in the spirit world. Obviously I haven't playtested that, but it might be interesting.
Otherwise, I'd go with a different class for your shaman. There are lots of good possibilities, many already mentioned. If you're really going to be changing flavor heavily anyway, then you might as well pick the best mechanical skeleton (i.e., class) for your concept.
Well, you could eliminate the spirit companion fluff completely and just say that some of your powers/evocations have two points of origin. You might say this is due to correspondences in the spirit world and the material world. When the spirit and material points of origin match up, things look normal (i.e., power without the spirit keyword). When the two points are slightly off, the power emanates from both you and from the corresponding point in the spirit world. Obviously I haven't playtested that, but it might be interesting.
Otherwise, I'd go with a different class for your shaman. There are lots of good possibilities, many already mentioned. If you're really going to be changing flavor heavily anyway, then you might as well pick the best mechanical skeleton (i.e., class) for your concept.
A cool idea.
I don't know what class would be best, but I'm presuming it would be the one that already deals with spirits, I'll wait for the book though because I'm not a DDI subscriber.
Barbarians-who are especially great for characters who are based on Vodoun mythology (who call spirits to "ride" them and grant them powers). Could also work as a character who emulates the spirits of his ancestors or of animal totems.
Warlocks, whose pacts are with various creatures that historically have been called "spirits" and who could well be interpreted as such by people IG. The fey pact in particular is good for a "cunning folk" type of character who beguiles and misdirects others-especially if you have ritual caster.
Shaman-with standard fluff the shaman class seems absolutely wonderful for any sort of character with a spirit guide or guides. As a previous poster said, you could simply have the companion manifest as a different type of spirit each time. A dwarven shaman calling on the spirits of his ancestors could be really interesting-as could a bocor shaman who calls up the ghosts of those whose souls he has captured in soul jars to serve him.
Druid-excellent for a traditional "witch" whose powers were often seen as relating to weather control and shape shifting. Could also be used to create a werewolf-esque individual.
Warden-excellent for someone who is an avatar of (or a representative of) a specific spirit, or who is a someone who has been deemed a champion of the spirit world.
So there are 5 different classes who with very little re-fluffing could serve as individuals with a shamanic gift, burden or outlook. And that's just off the top of my head-one could very well have a Fighter/Shaman/Kensai for whom his spirit companion is the soul of his weapon- or the amalgamation of the souls of the creatures his weapon has slain.