I'm curious as to how bards are going to perform without having a perform skill. I mean are they just going to naturally wow everyone with their amazing ability to dance, sing, play instrument, etc. from the very beginning? I'm sorry if I seem lost but I don't get insider and currently don't have the money for it. I know from everyone discussing the bard that not much if anything at all has come out about it. I'm just basically asking if anyone has even heard about that aspect, :D .
People haven't really been talking about that one lately. For the most part though, there's absolutely no need for a perform skill; you already have stats that guide your Bard powers, so why involve a skill check? Beyond that, as far as mundane performances are concerned, players might as well be allowed to do anything that isn't covered by other skills.
I'm curious as to how bards are going to perform without having a perform skill. I mean are they just going to naturally wow everyone with their amazing ability to dance, sing, play instrument, etc. from the very beginning? I'm sorry if I seem lost but I don't get insider and currently don't have the money for it. I know from everyone discussing the bard that not much if anything at all has come out about it. I'm just basically asking if anyone has even heard about that aspect, :D .
With the 4e mechanics, one has to re-think everything in a different way, and with the Bard I guess even more so...
The underlying concept is that anyone could be good at playing an instrument without any particular mechanics reflecting it, in 4e. Being a Bard means more than being skilled, it means you make magic out of your skills. And these spells-out-of-skills are actually represented by the Bard's powers.
If a character would like to be as good and magical as a Bard in playing an isntrument, singing, or however performing, he's not having to get Skill Training (perform) [which doesn't exist], but rather take the Bard multiclass feat and eventually swap his/her powers with bard ones.
It might be a little different in the mechanics and could picture us a little conceptual wrongness, but if one really separates mechanics from in-game reality, the true changes are that "normal performing skill" is just a matter of the fluff of your charcater development/background, while "heroic bardic performing skill" is obtained by the means of feats (multiclassing).
Regarding your doubt about bards being great performers since the beginning, and naturally so... Well, from a mechanic/metagame point of view, they can cure people with their "artistic magic" since level 1 and perform other similar and typically bardic feats, but being the "true" perform skill (expertise with voice/instrument or whatever) a fluff thing, one could and maybe should imagine that a first level bard is actually not so skilled at it, but already "magical at it", because of his/her particular ability to amalgamate magic and art. Not necessary magic and skillfully performed art.
The skill used for a musical performance will depend on what you want to achieve with the performance. If you're trying to distract the audience while your companions do something, it's a Bluff check. If you're trying to make an unfriendly audience more well-disposed towards you, or to get a free meal and a bed in an inn, it's Diplomacy. If you want to impress the Queen with a historical ballad, it's a History check. If you want to seduce the Queen with a romantic ballad, it will probably be a skill challenge using Bluff, Diplomacy, Insight and (maybe) History.
This isn't rocket surgery, people.
The type of check called for in a performance depends on what you're trying to get out of it. If you're just trying to entertain, a raw Charisma check is fine (give the enhancement bonus of the instrument as a bonus). If you're trying to "sooth the savage beast", then a Diplomacy check would be good.
Exactly: Diplomacy is the new Preform skill. I think it is silly to assume that just because you play an instrument that people will give you their money (even if you play really well.) It all depends, IMO, on how the person you are preforming for perceives you, and that can be handled with various social Skills, specificly Diplomacy (but others like Bluff and Streetwise might be useful too.)
Also, a skill has NOTHING to do with how a character gets his or her powers; a fighter does not need to be trained in Athletics, a warlock is not defaulted with the Arcana skill, and certainly, a would-be bard need not the Preform skill.
This isn't rocket surgery, people.
Ok... but where's my Profession (Rocket Surgeon)?
What's the skill check for him rocking out?
Diplomacy - Sooth a princess to your side against her better wishes, Calm waring factions long enough to bring them to a table to talk peace, tease some info out of a group of thieves by convincing them that your on your side.
Intimidate - Overawe a spy to make him back down from giving secrets about the hidden glade away. Make the Devil back down as you sing out exactly all the pain your party will deal to him. Sing a battle hymn as your allies charge into battle, running minions before you.
Streetwise - Draw people from the market in with your knowledge of their community in song. Win a few coins by telling the local legend of a small town because you remembered it. Make adventurous and foolish foes try to find a hidden treasure in the city by pointing it out, giving you time to exit in the chaos.
You can play. It's HOW you play that counts.
Let's say I made a heavy metal bard/homebrew necromancer?
What's the skill check for him rocking out?
Intimidate.
Let's say I made a heavy metal bard/homebrew necromancer?
What's the skill check for him rocking out?
There's no check, Metal is an automatic success!
There's no check, Metal is an automatic success!
Though I hear you can get the rest of the group in that. The only non checked based ritual you can get aid from. The rowdier :D the better.
Though I hear you can get the rest of the group in that. The only non checked based ritual you can get aid from. The rowdier :D the better.
well, until the town guard comes and gives you a fine for breaking the noise ordinance and/or vandalism.
Of course I wouldn't know from personal experience or anything :D
Bluff - Distract a guard by playing a randy little number why the party sneaks around, Sneak a cutting remark about the king into you retelling of his tale, Startle a group of Kobolds with tales of your exploits in battle.
Diplomacy - Sooth a princess to your side against her better wishes, Calm waring factions long enough to bring them to a table to talk peace, tease some info out of a group of thieves by convincing them that your on your side.
Intimidate - Overawe a spy to make him back down from giving secrets about the hidden glade away. Make the Devil back down as you sing out exactly all the pain your party will deal to him. Sing a battle hymn as your allies charge into battle, running minions before you.
Streetwise - Draw people from the market in with your knowledge of their community in song. Win a few coins by telling the local legend of a small town because you remembered it. Make adventurous and foolish foes try to find a hidden treasure in the city by pointing it out, giving you time to exit in the chaos.
You can play. It's HOW you play that counts.
This.
Cliche as the phrase may be, it fits.
snip
Agreed. This guy wins
Plus, they will probably have some rules in the PHB2 saying as much, or providing similar rules constructs.
/thread
Agreed. This guy wins
Despite the fact that I made the exact same point (with almost the same examples) five posts earlier?
Despite the fact that I made the exact same point (with almost the same examples) five posts earlier?
Yes.