Warforged
Minotaurs
Shadar-Kai
and even new things like the Dhampyr, how long until we get articles for MY favorite races: Goblins and Orcs? ( I know we got the Half-Orc, but putting up an article on full-blooded orcs could only help players by giving them a new option and truly showcase how different the two races are, making half-orcs better than "smart orcs")
I want a goblin article because, well, GOBLINS RULE!!!
Discuss and feel free to discuss what races YOU want written up (and sent to the principal's office!)
- Doppelganger: It probably will be in Eberron. But if not then that is definitely what I would like to see. If it is in Eberron, then some article further expanding on it even more.
- Raavasta: Very cool race. It has lots of neat abilities, so be interesting see how it would be done as a PC race. Plus more Planar races are always great.
- Elan: I could see this being in PHB3. But like Doppelganger if not then in a article. Or expanded upon. It is my favourite psionic race and cool in general. It could also be done like a Dhampyr, if not a full race.
I dunno if you don't have that -- do they still release print versions of Dragon magazine?
Wait there is a shadar-kai Article? Do i have to subscribe to DDI insider. If not can someone send me a link to see it?
Yup there is, and yeah you need to be a subscriber. It is in last month's Dragon: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drtoc/372
I dunno if you don't have that -- do they still release print versions of Dragon magazine?
There is going to be annual, "Best of" books for Dragon and Dungeon.
I'd like to see goblins, orcs, and kobolds too.
Centaurs.
As they are in the MMII, I hope there is a PC write up for them.
Then there is an Ecology of the Deva, most recently was the Sharn, Genasi and Dragonborn.
Bel
Come on WotC, we also need some racial goodness
We've gotten write up for:
Warforged
Minotaurs
Shadar-Kai
and even new things like the Dhampyr, how long until we get articles for MY favorite races: Goblins and Orcs? ( I know we got the Half-Orc, but putting up an article on full-blooded orcs could only help players by giving them a new option and truly showcase how different the two races are, making half-orcs better than "smart orcs")
I want a goblin article because, well, GOBLINS RULE!!!
Discuss and feel free to discuss what races YOU want written up (and sent to the principal's office!)
I don't want to see a Playing Goblins article, or a Playing Orcs article. Because what I want to see is a PHB with it's race section devoted to the green-bloods.
I don't want it to be a DDi only thing.
I want PHB III (Ideally) or PHB IV to have ALL it's race slots devoted to Goblins, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, Orcs, Kobolds, Lizardfolk, and Gnolls.
I also hope that A> having had a DDi article won't prevent a race from getting a write-up in a PHB, and B> that if races that HAVE had DDi write-ups get put into a PHB that it WON'T be a simple Copy Paste of the DDi article.
Particularly fire nymphs (don't know what thier called. Pyriads?) and water nymphs. (Niriads).
possibily as a fey humanoid. preferably an elemental fey humanoid. (both types.)
Aero nymphs, Terra Nymphs, Light nymphs, and shadow nymphs would be nice too.
would prefer a charisma bonus. if shadow nymphs have +2 int +2 cha, and feylock or darklock bonuses, i wll exploit that to change my 1st level Algorandian Sanctioned LFR feylock's race. (She is 2/3 shadow nymph 1/6 eladrin 1/12 elf and 1/12 human. but got stuck using human racial stats. because there is no shadow nymph yet. her bonus at will i from the dark pact. i actually plan on 2fold pact. w/ Fey/Dark which requires a 3rd CHA pact to exist.)
Nymphs, and please, no nudity.
Although you'll probably get your wish. 4th ed seems to be a nipple-free product.
I don't want to see a Playing Goblins article, or a Playing Orcs article. Because what I want to see is a PHB with it's race section devoted to the green-bloods.
I don't want it to be a DDi only thing.
I want PHB III (Ideally) or PHB IV to have ALL it's race slots devoted to Goblins, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, Orcs, Kobolds, Lizardfolk, and Gnolls.
I also hope that A> having had a DDi article won't prevent a race from getting a write-up in a PHB, and B> that if races that HAVE had DDi write-ups get put into a PHB that it WON'T be a simple Copy Paste of the DDi article.
Please no. PHIII and PHIV have much more important races to deal with than the Goblinoids, Kobolds, Lizardfolk, and Gnolls. Gnolls, if they are updated to full book status, would not come for quite a while due to their Dragon write-up (it's about a year and a half between the Warforged write-up and their book-status role in Eberron Player's Guide).
PHIII and PHIV need to deal with races that will play to the Power Sources they deal with, and maybe one or two throw-back races. PHI dealt with core, fundamental races. PH2 dealt with significantly more uncommon races, however, they all fell into a theme: Goliaths and Shifters are set up for Primal, Half-Orcs, Gnomes, and Devas are throw-backs to Martial, Arcane, and Divine respectively. PH3 will need to deal with races that associate with the Power Sources it introduces. It may include a throw-back race or two to Primal, such as Raptorans, but Wizards these days are trying to stay away from making "Monster" Races core. Warforged were written-up because the only reason they were designated as a monster race was because they would eventually get a write-up with Eberron. Gnolls and Minotaurs are both monster races that have significant roles and backstories to offer, and filled racial space that was rare or not covered. Shadar-Kai plays up a role-type that we won't really get to see in full until the PH with the Shadow Power Source, and it's likely that by the PH that completes Shadow, we'll see Shadar-Kai made into a Core Player Race. Goblinoids have been expressed as evil, and solely evil. Even a heroic Gnoll or Minotaur are extremely rare, so it's very unlikely they'll get a spot in a future PH. Goblins and Kobolds will probably get a "Playing..." Dragon article, but they should not be upgraded to full status. The amount of Good Goblinoids and Kobolds is just too minuscule. That is also why Orcs shouldn't get a role in a PH. The whole purpose of the Half-Orc was to play a heroic Orc-like character, while not having to focus a player position as a member of a race that is heroic on in a tiny minority.
Certain monster races lend themselves to being heroic PCs. From the original Monster Manual, Doppelgangers, Drow, Githyanki, Githzerai, Gnomes, Shadar-Kai, Shifters, and Warforged all make excellent PCs. Githyanki, Githzerai, and Doppelgangers are still waiting on their write-ups, and it is 99% certain that Doppelgangers will come with Eberron Player's Guide, and very likely that the Gith will be written up for the Player's Handbook dealing with Psionics and Ki. With the exception of Drow and Githyanki, all of these races share one thing in common: they are not generally "evil" per say. Heroic Drow have been written about for years, expecially in the Realms, and models like Drizzt have firmly set in the chaotic neutral or even chaotic good (i.e. Unaligned or Good) Drow heroes as part of the D&D culture. Githyanki, while evil, have been played up unaligned to focus on heroes that live to hunt the Illithids, and they made a powerful balance against the more commonly unaligned Githzerai. Both are exceptions, not the rule.
Goblinoids, Kobolds, Orcs, Gnolls, Lzardfolk, Minotaurs, these races have rarely EVER had heroes. When they do, they are extreme exceptions. That's the major reason that they are resigned to the Monster Manual and write-ups in Dragon Magazine. Wizard's Orcs are not the shamanistic green-skinned orcs that were once enslaved by Demons (a la Warcraft). No' ah fey fa zell-loven' Kokne' spikkin' Orks o' War'amma. These are brutal warriors serving the God Gruumsh, who will raid and pillage and destroy everything. These guys don't really have much of a potential for goodness, and when they are good, it's a single individual out of millions. This does not make a good PC race.
What it does make is a good NPC race (in the MM), so that the DM can give it a class and make it progress like a PC. It also makes for a very unique PC race, and that's part of the reason Dragon Magazine exists: to give options outside of the norm to players who subscribe. It's why it originated in the first place, and it's why it's still going strong - stronger and with more quality than every before.
If you want good or unaligned Orcs and Goblinoids, and don't want to shell out the money for a subscription to Dragon (and you can always just subscribe for the month that covers that race, when it comes), then you always have the option of Homebrew. This is D&D, and you don't have to play the core setting, or accept the standard assumptions.
Otherwise, try playing Warcraft or Warhammer; I'm sure you'll get more Orcish and Goblinoid protagonists in those places.
Shifters and Gith, please!
Shifters were in PHB2. So it's extremely doubtful that they would get a "Playing..." article write up now. Most likely an "Ecology of..." article. Gith would be good. I wouldn't doubt that they have plans for them, especially once the Psionic power source is out.
Rakshasas. That's what we need an article on.
That coudl be interesting... but since they are the result of when a Deva revels too much in it's dark side, it may be more difficult to make a good concept out of it.
Goblinoids, Kobolds, Orcs, Gnolls, Lzardfolk, Minotaurs, these races have rarely EVER had heroes. When they do, they are extreme exceptions. That's the major reason that they are resigned to the Monster Manual and write-ups in Dragon Magazine. Wizard's Orcs are not the shamanistic green-skinned orcs that were once enslaved by Demons (a la Warcraft). No' ah fey fa zell-loven' Kokne' spikkin' Orks o' War'amma. These are brutal warriors serving the God Gruumsh, who will raid and pillage and destroy everything. These guys don't really have much of a potential for goodness, and when they are good, it's a single individual out of millions. This does not make a good PC race.
The same could be said for Drow, yet that hasn't stopped them from being a PC race for a long time. Actually, I would argue that the rarity of a good member of a race doesn't invalidate it as a PC option simply because heroic adventurers are a rare breed in and of themselves. Even amongst more commonly good races such as humans, there are a rare few who take up the adventurers life. Especially with the current points of light theme where adventurers are very rare and are seen as a bit off by the general population. (obviously that all depends on how one's campaign is themed)
Now while can argue that playing an evil race as a good character is simply a cry for attention, it also does lend itself to some great roleplaying opportunities. (I had a DM that once asked me to come up with a crazy character concept for a 3e game... so I made a Succubus Paladin that was trying to redeem itself. Lots of great roleplaying in that campaign until she eventually became an Angel.)
Soem have mentioned Orcs... now with the Half-Orc out, I find it unlikely that we'll see a Playing Orcs article any time soon.
As for my wishlist? I wouldn't mind seeing Kobolds, Bugbears or Goblins. But actually, I would be more interested in Hobgoblins, Azers, Banshrae, Dark Ones, or Lizardfolk.
Although you'll probably get your wish. 4th ed seems to be a nipple-free product.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
For me, it is. Instead of introducing some sexy bare-shirted young males along with the females, after PHB they are following the path of eliminating nudity altoghether, perhaps due to Parlor fundamentalists' pression.
For me, it is. Instead of introducing some sexy bare-shirted young males along with the females, after PHB they are following the path of eliminating nudity altoghether, perhaps due to Parlor fundamentalists' pression.
Eh, to each his/her own. I've ever particularly wanted nudity in my game books, so i find this policy to be perfect acceptable.
It's a D&D book, not a Playboy mag.
For me, it is. Instead of introducing some sexy bare-shirted young males along with the females,
I would like some hot drow naked tranny action in my D&D art.
That's just a theory though, as I don't think we'll see goblinoids in the actual Eberron players guide - though I could be wrong.
The same could be said for Drow, yet that hasn't stopped them from being a PC race for a long time.
Way to entirely ignore the part of his post where he addressed that very point.
Way to entirely ignore the part of his post where he addressed that very point.
Way to entirely ignore the rest of my post AND add something substantive to the discussion!
Go ScalesofFate, go ScalesofFate! 
Sadly I doubt it'll happen though, especially in a playable format.
As for a race I'd like to see... Raptorans. I really liked them in the Races of the Wild and would love to see how WotC handles them in 4E.
An Ecology of... article would be nice for them.
Bel
Minotaurs have already gotten a Playing... article in Dragon #369.
An Ecology of... article would be nice for them.
Bel
I assume we'd get a more in depth article, perhaps one that even models DL Minotaurs better (smaller size, better at sailing, etc.) .
I assume we'd get a more in depth article, perhaps one that even models DL Minotaurs better.
If and only if WotC does Dragonlance, and if they do, it'll probably be in the DL Player's Guide.
If and only if WotC does Dragonlance, and if they do, it'll probably be in the DL Player's Guide.
Dunno, I mean they'd have to include the Ogres, Centaur and Kender already... Then again, Kender are just klepto Halflings and the Centaur could be handled in Dragon Magazine, so yeah the DL Minotaur could wait for the DLPG.
Oh and WotC WILL do DL. Its easy money. :D
Dunno, I mean they'd have to include the Ogres, Centaur and Kender already... Then again, Kender are just klepto Halflings and the Centaur could be handled in Dragon Magazine, so yeah the DL Minotaur could wait for the DLPG.
Oh and WotC WILL do DL. Its easy money. :D
Probably, but it won't be any of my money.
RACIAL TRAITS
Average Height: 3’4-3’8
Average Weight: 40-55 lbs
Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma
Size: Small
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Low Light
Languages: Common, Goblin
Skill Bonus: +2 Stealth, +2 Thievery
Goblin Reflexes: You gain a +1 racial bonus to your Reflex defense.
Sneak Thief: You may make a Thievery check to Pickpocket or perform Sleight of Hand on an item as a minor action.
Underhanded: You gain a +2 racial bonus to damage against creatures that you have combat advantage against.
Goblin Tactics Goblin Racial Power
You avoid the enemy’s blow and cleverly slink past it’s defenses
At-Will
Immediate Reaction Personal
Trigger: You are missed by a melee attack
Effect: You shift 1 square.
Probably, but it won't be any of my money.
You can't woo all the people all the time?
You can't woo all the people all the time?
Quite true.
Spirit Folk (offshoot of Genasi?).
Sasquatch.
Way to entirely ignore the rest of my post AND add something substantive to the discussion!
Why thank you. I do what I can.
:evillaugh
I want . . . PHB IV to have ALL it's race slots devoted to Goblins, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, Orcs, Kobolds, Minotaurs, and Gnolls.
fixed
as i see it:
shadar-kai - phb3 shadow
dark ones - phb3 shadow
githzerai - phb3 ki
githyanki - phb3 psionic
doppleganger - phb3 psionic or eberron players guide (epg)
warforged - epg
mul - dark sun players guide (dspg)
id also like to see satyrs related to nymphs again.as far as nudity in dnd, im actually very for it. i understand that its a all ages game and that they want to sell to as many people as possible, but ... i just don't care for that reason. :rolleye2: its stifling to me as an artist to draw a thing and to be told not to draw it as its supposed to be or as i see it. dryads, and nymphs in mythology were often naked. im not talking about any "nasty" pose but it can be done with some class.
i guess this idea falls onto another thread of how the most gruesome violence is allowed (death by sword/mace/spear is actually horrifying.) but sex isn't. i think thats just a western/american thing. i've heard most of the reason anti sex/nudity already, and again i just dont see it.
i know im very much in the minority in this, so i'll take the thread back on track by saying in addition to those above races mentioned i would love a "basic" fey that you can toss a feat at and get a grig, pixie, nixie, leprecaun, brownie, gremlin, fremlin, you get the idea. maybe even use gnomes as the basic fey and add those fey as feat/ paragon similar to the class act warlord/warlock build for teiflings.
who ever mentioned the gobliniods in one book is brilliant.
As far as gith and dopplegangers go, I have seen more kobold be heroic than I have ever seen gith do anything interesting at all. And every doppleganger player I've played with more than 2 days ended up screwing with the party.
It's all your opinion that kobolds aren't heroic, so don't diss the kobolds!
Deekin and Meepo!
Deekin and Meepo!
I'm not saying that Kobolds, Golblinoids, etc shouldn't get they're own Playing... articles in Dragon. All I'm saying is that they're standard issue races, appeared in the first Monster Manual, and don't make for a large number of PCs. They can be GREAT for a PC here and there. They can be wonderful as a core race if you reflavour them so that they're not mostly evil or chaotic evil. There are other racial options that make better sense as a PH race or a Setting Race. Now with settings like Dragonlance, that completely reflavour these MM races, they're very welcome into the core setting rulebooks. But I highly doubt the standard-issue monster races will make it into a PH as a player race.
Races like Githyanki, Githzerai, Doppelgangers, maybe even Lizardfolk, have a bit of a higher profile because they're not necessarily evil (Gith are, for the most part; but they've got that gruff illithid-slayer shtick), and they make up character populations and fit well-in with the rest of the heroic crowd, even if they're on the skirts. Githyanki are like the PCs of the Astral Sea, and Githzerai the PCs of the Elemental Chaos. Devas and Genasis join them each respectively to get us races that have cultures that aren't specifically oriented to be a monster race. Lizardfolk fit in with the Primal theme, and could be a future race to add to the list of Primal races (with Shifters, Goliaths, Elves, and Dwarves). and Doppelgangers, which will probably be in the Eberron Player's Guide as Changelings, fit in wherever due to their shapeshifting.
Goblins, Kobolds, Gnolls, Orcs - these are the central and tropic monster races of the Heroic Tier. They're tied in a mental image of evilness and destroy on-sight. NOT a good race to make into a player race. Interesting to have the individual every so often who breaks away and has to prove him/herself to not be evil everywhere s/he goes. But as a PH race, they would be at stark odds with the rest of the PH races, and that doesn't make good group dynamics or be very helpful as they wander through the world.
I like Goblinoids. I want to see the Hobgoblin made into a race through a Playing Hobgoblins article in Dragon. But it just doesn't belong in the PH.
I would also like to point out that there seems to be an inherent bias towards the monster races of the MM1. People think that future PHs will fill out all the monster races from MM1, rather than introduce new monsters and races as they go; ones that fit the theme of the book better and move the game forward rather than just proving how much more core the first books are than the second or third waves of core books. The PH1 is the first among equals. The PH2 is not a Supplement, it's a Core Rule Book. Similarly, the MM2 and beyond will probably include many more monster races, and a couple of those probably belong in a PH2, because they can fill in as a high profile PC race, rather than just a monster.
I would like to see more NPC races detailed in books like The Plane Below; just like NPC Bladelings were detailed in Manual of the Planes, to the point they even included a single racial feat. But they shouldn't include PC races in these planar books. Not a good idea. By the way, Bladelings are another example of a good PC race that would come from a Monster Race. Any alignment, interesting shtick (Razor Storm), and a high-end very humanoid form that doesn't lend itself to traditional monsterhood like Goblins or Kobolds would.
Personally, I'd like to see Raptorans and Killorens back in the future; both races were awesome. Raptorans would have to be stuck on the ground until Paragon tier though... flying is too powerful before then. And even then, it would have to come through a Racial Paragon Path, like the Scion of Arkhosia, rather than through a racial feat (which would be broken because all Raptorans would take it, due to the power of flying).
I feel that the racial articles are better suited for monsterous and unlikely races than likely candidates for future PHB printings. I am entirely unconvinced that gith and lizardfolk are somehow better to be statted out as PHB races, but regardless that means that it should be a higher priority for the monster races to get articles than something that is going to be getting background info, feats, etc... already.
The obvious exception is dragonborn and deva, but I think it's mainly because of the misconceptions and questions that arise due to their introduction as core races. I honestly expect that if PHB3 uses gith, they will not receive an article until a month after the book comes out.
That being said, there are quite a few months ahead for ecology articles, and I would be willing to bet that monsterous races will have first picks. If gnolls and minotaurs can get some feats, so can goblins and kobolds.
And besides, to me kobold is slightly more iconic than some tall greasy goblin-looking outsider. I have never played with a gith in a party, or seen them in a DnD game, tabletop or otherwise, and assumed they were just another extraplanar. EVERYONE knows kobolds, and the fun in kobolds is from the fact that they are beaten up. Kobolds are the butt of many a DnD joke, and that makes them far more interesting than lizardfolk, minotaurs, and in my opinion, the gith. Kobold PC's are dynamic, Gith PC's are like ugly drow. We have mind lasers, pew pew! Someone dropped us in a frier! We are illithid french fries! Please, this is entirely overdramatic, but as you can tell, I care not for the gith.
Playing articles, on the other hand, are either for races that are chiefly monsters (Gnoll, Minotaur) or won't have a write-up for over a year (Warforged, Shadar-kai). I highly doubt Shadar-kai will even appear in PH3 (it's still too close to the Dragon article giving them special attention).
Hopefully, Goblinoids, Kobolds, and other fan-liked monsters that are in the MM as NPC races will get Playing... articles. This is a very good fit for them, rather than the PH series of rulebooks. This is what Dragon's niche should be - provide rules that aren't so universal as to warrant place in the physical products, but are desired and add extra depth to the game. It's the exact type of article that best fits Dragon, and isn't as liable to be game-stretching because races are a lot easier to balance than classes or powers.
The Playing Articles are also good for giving core-setting depth and feat support for races that won't get coverage for quite sometime; and even in EPG, Warforged won't be dealt with as a PoL race, but as an Eberron race. Yes, there will be a lot more options, and they'll be building upon the existence of more than twice as many classes as when the Dragon article came out, but they'll also be very in-universe style writing.
Shadar-kai will likely appear in PH4, but they may make it as soon as PH3. Either way, that's more than a year since the Dragon article, which was much desired because we want to play Shadar-kai. Still, Shadar-kai don't have a particularly good class build that fits both their ability score bonuses (just like the Eladrin), and aren't nearly as useful a race now as they will be once Shadow is in full swing. But Shadar-kai are popular (and have a potential to compete in popularity with Drow for that niche), and playing to player demands is another purpose of Dragon.