With Forgotten Realms, Eberron, and Dark Sun, as well as plenty of default "core setting" material out and about, it might be advantageous to bring it all together like the Avengers movie by reviving the Spelljammer campaign.
Dungeons and Dragons IN SPACE!!!
Sales of previously released setting books for 4e could also see a small spike with the release of the Spelljammer setting. A good number of gaming groups would have epic reasons to obtain the setting material of every setting released for 4e for use in their Spelljammer campaigns.
Visit the moon of Toril and say "One small step for gnome, one giant leap for feykind."
Get chased by ascro around the dark sun of Athas and use your magic to slam their ship into the raging fires.
Set sail into the mouth of the living planet eater and destroy it from within.
Spelljammer for 2012.
What do you think?
Oh god I hope not. I would much rather see something new, like Eberron was to 3.5.
Me too, but I also want some of the older settings to see new versions. Just not Spelljammer. Yuck.
Give me Dragonlance and a new setting(come on Frozen World!) in the same year.
Oh god I hope not. I would much rather see something new, like Eberron was to 3.5.
Me too, but I also want some of the older settings to see new versions. Just not Spelljammer. Yuck.
Give me Dragonlance and a new setting(come on Frozen World!) in the same year.
Dragonlance can take its kender and gully dwarves and stay buried as well imo
Oh god I hope not. I would much rather see something new, like Eberron was to 3.5.
Me too, but I also want some of the older settings to see new versions. Just not Spelljammer. Yuck.
Give me Dragonlance and a new setting(come on Frozen World!) in the same year.
Dragonlance can take its kender and gully dwarves and stay buried as well imo
Last post from me on the subject before the thread gets more derailed.
Kender aren't as bad as most people make them out to be. The biggest issue that they have is that the people playing don't understand how they are supposed to act like. And gully dwarves shouldn't be player races, IMO. Gimme a DL setting with a mounted Knight build and Goblin PC race, and I will be happy.
But I also want my Frozen World setting so I can put my IWD tiles to use.
I hate to say if they did do it as a new campaign setting, I'd probably buy it, but I imagine I'd be the only one...
that said, I wwould like better rules for interdeminsional travel say travelling fro mthe realms to say eberron or Dark sun and if that includes the spell jammer ships so be it.
to me though it dopes not need a setting book of its own
Spelljammer ships will travel through different planes as well as different worlds and spheres (Manual of the Planes mentions this apparently).
There could be special docks within the phlogiston between crystal spheres like the Knowhere station in the comic Guardians of the Galaxy. These docks could be designed as enclosed cities or city planets with portals that lead practically everywhere in existence. A cross between Knowhere and Sigil.
What if Sigil were not the only city of its kind...
Worlds or world clusters within the phlogiston could also be the source of Far Realm creatures and lore.
Spelljammer could be reinvented, absorbing all the Planescape favorites with some new goodies added.
Spelljammer ships will travel through different planes as well as different worlds and spheres (Manual of the Planes mentions this apparently).
There could be special docks within the phlogiston between crystal spheres like the Knowhere station in the comic Guardians of the Galaxy. These docks could be designed as enclosed cities or city planets with portals that lead practically everywhere in existence. A cross between Knowhere and Sigil.
What if Sigil were not the only city of its kind...
Worlds or world clusters within the phlogiston could also be the source of Far Realm creatures and lore.
Yea, that is not at all what I was imagining. That seems more like spelljammer than planescape. If I were to buy into a planescape/spelljammer fusion it would have to lean far more heavily on the planescape side of things...
I'm still crossing my fingers for there to be any D&D in 2012 at all.
I wouldn't mind a 4e spelljammer, but it seems a bit . . . overly optimistic to hope for one in 2012.
I'm still crossing my fingers for there to be any D&D in 2012 at all.
I am sure there will be 5th edition for 2012.
I think they would mess it up though.
Spelljammer for 4e would be epic... or "planejammer" if you will. In some ways "spelljamming" is now "core" by way of info in "Plane Above" and "Plane Below". However, I would love to have a "campaign setting" box set detailing more about travel between the different D&D worlds (Core, FR, Eberron, etc... just not Dark Sun, due to the interdimensional "wall" that stops people from leaving that world), more options for ships, more info on pirates and other hazards (Githyanki and other).
I'd also implement "hyperspace" waypoints (except with a more magical type name), making it easier to move between worlds and planes and such.
2012 will be 5E, that is my prediction!
I loved Spelljammer in 2e (let's not discuss what they tried to do with it in 3e). I would love to see it in 4e as well, but I don't think it would need to be its own setting with crystal spheres for different worlds. With the new 4e cosmology, spelljamming would seem a natural fit for getting from plane to plane and world to world through the Astral Sea. What I would be most interested in is a book containing stats and deck plans for different types of spelljamming ships as well as rules for ship creation, equipment and modification. To the extent it's not covered in other books, the spelljammer book could also detail the mechanics of traveling the planes by ship.
Suppose we do replace the phlogiston with the Natural Space, Astral Sea, Elemental Chaos, and Far Realm.
The setting book could have all sorts of lore about locations where spelljammers can dock. Spelljammer ports and portal cities and special worlds. Entire civilizations with spelljamming a part of daily life.
Spelljamming organizations such as Far Realm Hunters, Jammer Pirates, and the Spelljammer Racing Association could play interesting roles in Spelljammer plots.
Various ship designs could be included. Spelljamming Mounts could be included. Spelljamming creatures could be included.
New PC races that have evolved among Spelljamming civilizations could be interesting.
Suppose we do replace the phlogiston with the Natural Space, Astral Sea, Elemental Chaos, and Far Realm.
The setting book could have all sorts of lore about locations where spelljammers can dock. Spelljammer ports and portal cities and special worlds. Entire civilizations with spelljamming a part of daily life.
Spelljamming organizations such as Far Realm Hunters, Jammer Pirates, and the Spelljammer Racing Association could play interesting roles in Spelljammer plots.
Various ship designs could be included. Spelljamming Mounts could be included. Spelljamming creatures could be included.
New PC races that have evolved among Spelljamming civilizations could be interesting.
Agree 100%
I have used Spelljamming this way in 4E so far with great success and some official support for new locations would be nice.
Special terrain and traps/hazards built into the ship for battles that take place on your Spelljammer.
Special protections against the dangers of planar travel (ex. while on your Spelljammer gain resist X versus this damge type or that damage type).
Features for ship-to-ship combat in which everyone takes a different station in the party. Man the helm, cannons, etc. and use your ranged and area powers when fighting another ship. Instead of a normal battlegrid with PCs and monsters, you have ships maneuvering in space.
Spelljammer ships can have classes of their own with at-wills, encounters, utilities and dailies for ship grid combat.
I'd love to see Spelljammer as a setting, but I'd really want it to keep the phlogitson. As people have pointed out, spelljamming has sort of made its way into the Astral Sea. But in terms of feel, there's a very big difference between sailing a magical ship on the Astral Sea from Mount Olympus to Valhalla to Dante's Inferno vs sailing a magical ship through space from Faerun, past the Tears of Selune and on to Flatworld while dodging the illithid's Ringworld and making a stop at the sun to trade with the salamanders. Oh, and seeing the torch-bearing giants inside one crystal sphere. (n.b., I'm drawing examples from a 4e update attempt, not having been around for the original 2e). Point is, the fluff is very different, and making it sailing on the Astral Sea is just expanding on core. There's room to make Spelljammer its own setting. But that's by embracing the quirks that some love and some loathe. I love it. Haters, don't try to tell me that's wrong.
I don't see why you can't do all that in the Astral Sea.
The Plane Above said if you sail far enough on the Astral Sea, you can reach other worlds. You can certainly do all that in MY Astral Sea, which plays a lot like outer space in Treasure Planet.
Much rather see something along the lines of Dragonstar for D&D in space.
I thought Dragonstar was a really good product. Unllike D20 Future, it was completely compatible with DnD, and it made for a lot of fun, multi-genre gaming when I played 3x.
Regarding Spelljammer: I never played it, but I am familiar enough with the setting to say that I have interest in a 4e version.
(What I would really like to see is 4e version of D20 Modern/Future that is fully compatible with DnD)
Much rather see something along the lines of Dragonstar for D&D in space.
I thought Dragonstar was a really good product. Unllike D20 Future, it was completely compatible with DnD, and it made for a lot of fun, multi-genre gaming when I played 3x.
Regarding Spelljammer: I never played it, but I am familiar enough with the setting to say that I have interest in a 4e version.
(What I would really like to see is 4e version of D20 Modern/Future that is fully compatible with DnD)
This...
A ranged arcane striker (secondary leader) that specializes in conjurations, summonings, and power ups.
It's a setting I always liked the look of but never really got the chance.
give it a post-apocalyptic feel, where a couple hunderid years ago the varius races had to addapt from a water world. some died off some changed. maybe some cast huge magic spells on themselves to make it so they can survive.
there was even a whale like creature in the book that pushed itself on the ice (it was VERY thick) and ate whatever was in its way, plants animals whatever.
I would rather have a Modern 4e setting, either that or a "water world" which I think could be pretty boss.
You "kinda" have one with Chris Perkins' "Iomandra" world.
community.wizards.com/iomandra_public
I would rather have a Modern 4e setting, either that or a "water world" which I think could be pretty boss.
Spelljammer allows the creation of anykind of world.
But this topic is SpellJammer... not what would you like to see in play of SpellJammer.
a water world would be awsome I agree, but I think a frozen world would be better ;). something like I read in a sci-fi (by foster forgot the name) where the entire world was frozen (except for one or both poles) and the natives had small boats with huge skates. the natives had natural skates and big skin flaps that were like wings to catch the wind.
give it a post-apocalyptic feel, where a couple hunderid years ago the varius races had to addapt from a water world. some died off some changed. maybe some cast huge magic spells on themselves to make it so they can survive.
there was even a whale like creature in the book that pushed itself on the ice (it was VERY thick) and ate whatever was in its way, plants animals whatever.
I'll admit, water world or frozen world would be awesome too. Regarding the frozen world, I'd really like to see one that draws on The Seventh Tower series by Garth Nix. This is a world that's frozen over because a magical Veil was laid over the entire world to block out the sun. Although many of the denizens of the world believe it was to protect them from the fierce heat and light of the sun (a lie invented by the ruling powers), the truth is that light granted power to magical invaders, so cutting off the sun sealed off the invaders. The ironic part? Those same invaders are being summoned and bound to the shadows of denizens. Honestly, I would love to play in that world. But since WotC can't steal that much without copyright infringement, let's see what we can get out of this:
The vampires rule the frozen wastes now. Centuries ago, their king hid his true nature and rose to a position of great power and influence. Secretly, he manipulated other forces at work, making the light of the sun seem to be a great danger to all life. He united the peoples of the world to join his cause, and assembling a team of mighty archmages, they erected the Veil and cut off the sun. Then he slew the archmages. The light of day no longer an issue, the vampire rebellion was swift and bloody. Now they rule the world, hunting the frozen wastes for any survivors. The herd grows thin, and vampires greatly outnumber humans. They are running out of food, and they grow hungry. So hungry....
I'd love to see Spelljammer as a setting, but I'd really want it to keep the phlogitson.
Based on what you say here:
As people have pointed out, spelljamming has sort of made its way into the Astral Sea. But in terms of feel, there's a very big difference between sailing a magical ship on the Astral Sea from Mount Olympus to Valhalla to Dante's Inferno vs sailing a magical ship through space from Faerun, past the Tears of Selune and on to Flatworld while dodging the illithid's Ringworld and making a stop at the sun to trade with the salamanders. Oh, and seeing the torch-bearing giants inside one crystal sphere. (n.b., I'm drawing examples from a 4e update attempt, not having been around for the original 2e).
...I really hope they get rid of the phlogitson. The first version of "spelljamming" you laid out excites my imagination. The second version makes me want to gag myself with a spoon. But, I still agree with this:
Point is, the fluff is very different, and making it sailing on the Astral Sea is just expanding on core. There's room to make Spelljammer its own setting. But that's by embracing the quirks that some love and some loathe. I love it. Haters, don't try to tell me that's wrong.
It is all subjective. Nothing wrong with personal preference.
I'd love to see Spelljammer as a setting, but I'd really want it to keep the phlogitson.
Based on what you say here:As people have pointed out, spelljamming has sort of made its way into the Astral Sea. But in terms of feel, there's a very big difference between sailing a magical ship on the Astral Sea from Mount Olympus to Valhalla to Dante's Inferno vs sailing a magical ship through space from Faerun, past the Tears of Selune and on to Flatworld while dodging the illithid's Ringworld and making a stop at the sun to trade with the salamanders. Oh, and seeing the torch-bearing giants inside one crystal sphere. (n.b., I'm drawing examples from a 4e update attempt, not having been around for the original 2e).
...I really hope they get rid of the phlogitson. The first version of "spelljamming" you laid out excites my imagination. The second version makes me want to gag myself with a spoon.
I really don't get why so many people respond so negatively to actual magic-in-space Spelljammer. It's basically taking generic sci-fi and saying those archaic theories of the universe were right. Then again, I guess it's like any of us wondering why non-geeks are so against D&D as a hobby. It's a fringe thing, and if you get it, you just can't understand why others don't. Or maybe that's just my experience....
I also recall eating my hat when my players bought the boxed set for me and it turned out to be a ton of fun. What Spelljammer allowed our somewhat jaded group to do was to go from place to place having absolutely fantastic adventures. You could go from a demon-world to a jungle planet, to a land of ruins and portals, to... It was like Star Trek, with every gaming session completely open. As the DM, I could use everything in my vast AD&D library. Every random monster I ever wanted to use, every strange scrap of an encounter I wished I could place... it all fit in Spelljammer (right next to the giant hamsters and the talking arquebus-wielding hippopotami).
The ship-to-ship battles were fantastic fun. I can picture my dorm room floor covered in ships on grid paper for one particular battle. It was just incredible and I think we had about an hour of sleep that night.
It is actually a very good setting to release toward the end of an edition for those reasons. Like Gamma World it can be done a bit campy and with an eye toward fantastic and fun and swashbuckling rather than serious high fantasy. I am still deep into the gritty realism of Dark Sun, but I would buy a 4E Spelljammer without question.
I recall fondly the days when I ridiculed the release of the original Spelljammer setting.
I also recall eating my hat when my players bought the boxed set for me and it turned out to be a ton of fun. What Spelljammer allowed our somewhat jaded group to do was to go from place to place having absolutely fantastic adventures. You could go from a demon-world to a jungle planet, to a land of ruins and portals, to... It was like Star Trek, with every gaming session completely open. As the DM, I could use everything in my vast AD&D library. Every random monster I ever wanted to use, every strange scrap of an encounter I wished I could place... it all fit in Spelljammer (right next to the giant hamsters and the talking arquebus-wielding hippopotami).
The ship-to-ship battles were fantastic fun. I can picture my dorm room floor covered in ships on grid paper for one particular battle. It was just incredible and I think we had about an hour of sleep that night.
It is actually a very good setting to release toward the end of an edition for those reasons. Like Gamma World it can be done a bit campy and with an eye toward fantastic and fun and swashbuckling rather than serious high fantasy. I am still deep into the gritty realism of Dark Sun, but I would buy a 4E Spelljammer without question.
odd enough I find your argument compelling, seems like a space version of the old novel silverlock
Never played the Planescape setting but have heard good things from others.
A good thing about a 4e supplement woth spelljamming rules would be that it would be adaptable to planetbound shipboard adventures too, whatever floats your boat (I will not apolgise for the terrible pun)
.The 4e ressurection of Dark Sun has been great, but I would have preffered Ravenloft (just my choice) however the great thing about D&D (in any edition) is that you can do it in whatever style you wish - if there aren't any official rules available, make your own and submit them to WotC, who knows, maybe you'll see your name in the credits of that next campaign supplement!
Spelljammer for 2012.
What do you think?
I am a big fan of Spelljammer, but I can't see this happening...not yet anyway.
I've never played Spelljammer before, but I think that it sounds really neat, and I'm not afraid to say so. It's the best proposal I've heard for another 4E setting, even including the vast majority of "original ideas" that people have proposed. I would absolutely be more that willing to give it a try.
Spelljammer certainly is original. And one of its advantages (from WotC's point of view) is that it can be used as a transitive setting (as can Planescape). This means that Spelljammer could connect a Forgotten Realms game to an Eberron game to a Dark Sun game. It isn't just D&D IN SPAAACE. It is also D&D joined up.
THinkinng about it again, It Wizards would be better of doing a revamped Planescape Campaign setting with maybe some of the Spelljammer elements folded in. Some of the elements (the ships anyway) are shown in the various Planes books as it is...
I would like to see a return of both Spelljammer and Planescape. I think that both should work as they did before, but the 4e designers should build on top of them to allow more Planejammer connections. But because not all SJ fans like Planescape and because not all PS fans like Spelljammer, it is better if each can still be used independantly.
Spelljammer? No way. Planescape with some spelljammer elements folded in? That would be very cool. That, or Ravenloft, would have me camping out the doors of my local RPG shop waiting to buy the product...
I would like to see more made of the Spelljammer-Ravenloft connection (hinted at with mists appearing in wildspace and taking ships to Ravenloft). Ravenloft is the third-transitive setting (able to connect to all other settings) and as "D&D horror" it is something that WotC really must put out for 4e. We have had a board game and Ravenloft Campaign Guide for 2012 would be logical. (But if they are going to do another Ravenloft, I want it to have Lord Soth and other baddies from out of print settings included.)
Planejammer or Spellscaepe is the most logical thing. Mixing both the Plancesacape and Spelljammer settings coud produce a great supplement for space/planar exploration. I do not think it warrents a setting by itself.
I think it is possible that Planescape and Spelljammer could share content, but although I am a big fan of the Planejammer idea (and am signed up to the Planejammer crew on Facebook) I don't think the combo-concept works for everyone.
For 2012, something new would be fun. 4e needs it's signature setting that incorporates the edition's internal logic and flavor, like Eberron was for 3.5.
I'll be very sad if the entire 4e run does not include at least one new campaign world.
HELL YES!!
It looks like it'd be a blast to play and I'm offering this as an unsolicited plug becuase I think it dovetails nicely with what everyone's talking about here. Check it out when you get the chance!
I believe it is possible that Spelljammer could attract a reasonably tempting number of new players interested in DnD by cashing in on the Trek craze next year. At least tempting enough to release one setting book.
(since it's not 2012 yet, I'd like to keep this thread going so here we go)
Strahd states: Highly Unlikely
most likely we will get NO setting or we get the delayed RAvenloft setting first.
my vote: No setting or we get Nethir vale cs.
Strahd states: Highly Unlikely
most likely we will get NO setting or we get the delayed RAvenloft setting first.
my vote: No setting or we get Nethir vale cs.
Chris Perkins stated at Comicpalooza that there will never be a campaign setting based on the Nentir Vale world.
Oh god I hope not. I would much rather see something new, like Eberron was to 3.5.
Me too, but I also want some of the older settings to see new versions. Just not Spelljammer. Yuck.
Give me Dragonlance and a new setting(come on Frozen World!) in the same year.
Dragonlance can take its kender and gully dwarves and stay buried as well imo
Last post from me on the subject before the thread gets more derailed.
Kender aren't as bad as most people make them out to be. The biggest issue that they have is that the people playing don't understand how they are supposed to act like. And gully dwarves shouldn't be player races, IMO. Gimme a DL setting with a mounted Knight build and Goblin PC race, and I will be happy.
But I also want my Frozen World setting so I can put my IWD tiles to use.
I know this is from litterally months ago and was an attempt to end a derail, but the kender where always absolutely obnoxious and awful in everything they ever appered in, anyone who says otherwise is just delusional. hell even the other races hate them.
I know this is from litterally months ago and was an attempt to end a derail, but the kender where always absolutely obnoxious and awful in everything they ever appered in, anyone who says otherwise is just delusional. hell even the other races hate them.
With Hasbro's ownership of WotC and its Toy Story license, the Spelljammer setting may be a nice way to work in some cross-advertising via the introduction of SPACE KENDER!!!!!
I know this is from litterally months ago and was an attempt to end a derail, but the kender where always absolutely obnoxious and awful in everything they ever appered in, anyone who says otherwise is just delusional. hell even the other races hate them.
With Hasbro's ownership of WotC and its Toy Story license, the Spelljammer setting may be a nice way to work in some cross-advertising via the introduction of SPACE KENDER!!!!!
Even more reason to love Witchlight Marauders, eh?
Kenders, the only creatures in D&D so evil they deserve to be made extinct by biological Weapons of Mass Destruction :P
I would much prefer an updated Mystara or Birthright over Spelljammer. Though I'm still holding out hope for a Ravenloft of Planescape setting.
Mystara and Birthright may not be distinct enough (as a whole) from the currently published settings in 4e to be considered for a return. Including them in the main worlds explorable in Spelljammer could be a good way to test the waters for interest.
Ravenloft would be awesome but the timing wouldn't be as good in 2012 as Spelljammer (Star Trek 2). A year in which great horror movies come out would probably amp up the chance for Ravenloft 4e.
Spelljammer and Planescape have so much to complement each other that they would form a better product merged into one setting, named Spelljammer because the name, referring to the dimension-faring vessels, is far more conducive to sales in 2012.